EPT[A]Heartbreak Ridge TvP Side - Page 2
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CursOr
United States6335 Posts
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Monokeros
United States2493 Posts
On September 21 2009 06:13 cUrsOr wrote: An actual verifiable, totally useful, and provable conclusion that really... can't be argued with. This is they way to learn from watching pro gammers. This is what TL is about... thanks for all your work this is a REALLY smooth layout. Representing TL, the OG Monokeros since 2005 Thanks again for the positive feedback :D | ||
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Dental Floss
United States1015 Posts
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Divinek
Canada4045 Posts
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Monokeros
United States2493 Posts
On September 21 2009 08:51 Dental Floss wrote: does anyone know what changes were made to RoHB between versions .9 and the current 1.1? RoHB? Ridge of Heartbreak? im confused On September 21 2009 08:57 Divinek wrote: Dropships do seem like the logical choice based on the layout of the map and the way tosses play it. Nice to see a well thoughout article immensely backing this up. Good stuff The bigger the better, amirite?  | ||
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TheTeamLiquidTiger
United States627 Posts
gonna try out what you said XD | ||
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BookTwo
1985 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
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Monokeros
United States2493 Posts
On September 21 2009 18:41 BookTwo wrote: very nice breakdown there. I'd be more than willing to read more of a different map! look forward to it! | ||
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Kazius
Israel1456 Posts
... the conclusion is true in about every long distance map not called Destination (add or take away a few). TvP is mech territory, which makes dropships and vultures the only true mobile units that can really inflict some pain when if TMNTurtling fails on a map (damn you late 80s, you ruined both my metaphors and appreciation of wacky hair). Hell, BoxeR got famous because he was the first one to really use dropships while the rest of the Terrans were cannon fodder. You'd think that the lesson would have stuck | ||
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iSiN
United States1075 Posts
Monokeros for staff with more articles like these + Show Spoiler + That is after you start to proof read them for typos  if this was a blog 5/5 | ||
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integral
United States3156 Posts
Summary: But I really feel like that game deserves a more in-depth look. If I remember the game right, mind denied scout while making his initial push look like a FD, leading best to expand -- the right move vs FD. But best's goon contain, which would be good enough to hold vs FD, gets raped when mind brings the tank he was holding back and the one he just produced to join the one up front and moves out. Best's decision to build a nexus undoubtedly cost him the game, but it was mind's doing, not best's mistake.Two Factories > Two Gate Range Especially if you expand directly after you make 4 goons with no robo in sight. That's what I remember anyway. Edit: from the thread On May 30 2009 13:39 KP_CollectoR wrote: Just to re-cap, Mind had a 2nd factory but made his push look like an FD. After opening 2 gate, BeSt decided to expand (he was faked out by Mind). Mind then pushed out with 3 tanks + vultures/marines against like only 3 goons, then proceeded to rape all of BeSt's probes. Very very strong execution of 2 fact push. | ||
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Monokeros
United States2493 Posts
On September 22 2009 11:49 integral wrote: The OP says "... no" to the Mind vs Best game, then goes on to say But I really feel like that game deserves a more in-depth look. If I remember the game right, mind denied scout while making his initial push look like a FD, leading best to expand -- the right move vs FD. But best's goon contain, which would be good enough to hold vs FD, gets raped when mind brings the tank he was holding back and the one he just produced to join the one up front and moves out. Best's decision to build a nexus undoubtedly cost him the game, but it was mind's doing, not best's mistake. That's what I remember anyway. Edit: from the thread Yeah I should've given more credit to Mind, but it was just funny because out of all the videos theres this one 8mn game of best losing to Two Fact, and this never happens again. So I felt it deserved special mention due to it being unique. | ||
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ZooG
Sweden618 Posts
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
On September 20 2009 10:23 Monokeros wrote: Fixed, thanks When you say retarded positioning do you mean attacking the protoss' third or claiming your own? Because dropships save the day for attack, and if youre claiming your own its usually when the Protoss' units are out of position or you got time after a huge advantage in which the toss cant afford to move out to stop you. I forgot about this thread ^_^ I mean attacking the Protoss. Due to the layout of the map, it's extremely hard to get Dropships actually into a good attacking position. Since the third is so close to the Protoss's rally point and since it's really easy for Dropships to get intercepted, they lose their effectiveness compared to maps like Python or God's Garden. I think the best way to use Dropships is periodic Vulture Drops into the main rather than an attack on the third. You might be able to sneak a Dropship along the bottom of the map, but chances are that it will get spotted early by the block that should be set up right in the choke of the third. I'm not saying that Dropships aren't viable, it's just that they're hard to use on the map. Now when the Protoss tries to get his fourth, then the fun begins. Dropships become the key unit to dismantling Protoss because you can start abusing Dropship and Vulture maneuverability to start wiping out Probes everywhere. The only issue is that Protoss generally starts taking the initiative with Arbiters and Recall often on HBR (or they should), so you need to cover your side as well. | ||
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SaftKalasEmil
Sweden213 Posts
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Musoeun
United States4324 Posts
On September 22 2009 16:23 Monokeros wrote: Yeah I should've given more credit to Mind, but it was just funny because out of all the videos theres this one 8mn game of best losing to Two Fact, and this never happens again. So I felt it deserved special mention due to it being unique. That game really annoyed me - imo it was even until BeSt walked his goons into a mine. And lost one. I don't know whether he wanted to snipe mines a la Jangbi, thought he could kill the tank, or just didn't know they were there, but it was facepalm worthy and sort of defeated any conclusions being drawn from the game. imo. | ||
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Rainbow
United States249 Posts
And although it has been decided that using drop ships on this map is the way to go, how would a terran use them? Mostly for harass, mostly for expanding to third, or even how many should a terran get? | ||
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Monokeros
United States2493 Posts
On September 22 2009 16:37 Mystlord wrote: Since the third is so close to the Protoss's rally point and since it's really easy for Dropships to get intercepted, they lose their effectiveness compared to maps like Python or God's Garden. I think the best way to use Dropships is periodic Vulture Drops into the main rather than an attack on the third. You might be able to sneak a Dropship along the bottom of the map, but chances are that it will get spotted early by the block that should be set up right in the choke of the third. You said when attacking, and now you're describing how dropships are supposed to be used in PvT. The key to dropships is the periodic Vulture Drops that set them back eco-wise, as well as causing them to move their army where they don't want. On September 20 2009 10:09 Mystlord wrote: I'm not saying that Dropships aren't viable, it's just that they're hard to use on the map. I'll answer this quote with a quote from my conclusion, On September 19 2009 17:58 Monokeros wrote: Now understanding that any kind of harass is risky and a huge investment many may be reluctant to use it. Whether you're clever or not with them using dropships to disrupt the Protoss' economy on this map is key, even if you don't get many probe kills if the dropships if floating around it can easily distract the Protoss, disrupt their game flow, allow you to secure your OWN 3rd and an eco advantage all the while keeping them wary of the skies and the ground whenever they move out. To me, though this might not be understood when something is risky//huge investment it means that its hard to use in that, it's hard to confidently use them without crippling your own macro/micro. Along with the basic meaning mulitasking's a bitch, but thats TvP for you. Basically, I'm agreeing with you 100% so....yeah  I'm glad you we're seeing eye to eye | ||
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Inzek
Chile802 Posts
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