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United Kingdom10003 Posts
With all the 'fuck you blizzard' everyone seems to have forgotten to answer this question:
On October 10 2019 03:06 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 00:55 HornyHerring wrote:
Am I the only one that feels this is in no way political? He acted like a retard spewing his own agenda abusing his broadcast time on Blizzards cost and got punished for it. I feel that if he was to do the same but instead talk about brexit or some other shit it would have ended up the same. Hmm This seems harsh on the caster, but from Blizzard's POV this is correct. Are we asking them to be arbiters of exactly what politics is allowed or are we asking them to allow all politics?
If the answer is neither then Blizzard made the right call
If Blizzard has allowed other people to talk about politics then fair enough, fuck blizzard, but if not it just seems like they have a rule and decided not to allow someone to break that rule.
The main issue here seems to be that people think that because of the nature of the situation in Hong Kong the rule shouldn't apply in this case but no-one has explained why.
Even the guy that got banned said he expected this.
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Northern Ireland27446 Posts
On October 11 2019 00:04 Jockmcplop wrote:With all the 'fuck you blizzard' everyone seems to have forgotten to answer this question: Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 03:06 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 10 2019 00:55 HornyHerring wrote:
Am I the only one that feels this is in no way political? He acted like a retard spewing his own agenda abusing his broadcast time on Blizzards cost and got punished for it. I feel that if he was to do the same but instead talk about brexit or some other shit it would have ended up the same. Hmm This seems harsh on the caster, but from Blizzard's POV this is correct. Are we asking them to be arbiters of exactly what politics is allowed or are we asking them to allow all politics?
If the answer is neither then Blizzard made the right call If Blizzard has allowed other people to talk about politics then fair enough, fuck blizzard, but if not it just seems like they have a rule and decided not to allow someone to break that rule. The main issue here seems to be that people think that because of the nature of the situation in Hong Kong the rule shouldn't apply in this case but no-one has explained why. Even the guy that got banned said he expected this.
The rule is vague and there’s no real precedent to compare it with.
I do not personally believe, and discussed this exact point with a compatriot earlier that if a Northern Irish player made a statement about having a United Irish state, that they would have been punished in this particular manner, or any comparable Western nation’s particular political cause of the day.
Now, I concede I have fuck all to actually back that up with bar intuition and Blizzard’s rather grovelling Chinese statement.
If it was a blanket rule on political statements, a statement akin to ‘We are an international company with fans and players from all over the world, we regret to take this action but we feel it necessary to keep our platforms open for all peoples’ or something would have sufficed.
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On October 11 2019 00:04 Jockmcplop wrote:With all the 'fuck you blizzard' everyone seems to have forgotten to answer this question: Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 03:06 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 10 2019 00:55 HornyHerring wrote:
Am I the only one that feels this is in no way political? He acted like a retard spewing his own agenda abusing his broadcast time on Blizzards cost and got punished for it. I feel that if he was to do the same but instead talk about brexit or some other shit it would have ended up the same. Hmm This seems harsh on the caster, but from Blizzard's POV this is correct. Are we asking them to be arbiters of exactly what politics is allowed or are we asking them to allow all politics?
If the answer is neither then Blizzard made the right call If Blizzard has allowed other people to talk about politics then fair enough, fuck blizzard, but if not it just seems like they have a rule and decided not to allow someone to break that rule. The main issue here seems to be that people think that because of the nature of the situation in Hong Kong the rule shouldn't apply in this case but no-one has explained why. Even the guy that got banned said he expected this.
The issue is not the ban for the guy doing it (although Blizzard could of course easily decide to not fuck him over as much as they did).
The circumstances, the ban for the casters and the lack of proper communication about this is what makes this political. This was clearly just Blizzard bending over to facilitate Chinas huge D entering their behind. And thats why it is a politcal matter, not just somebody getting punished for breaking the rules
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United Kingdom10003 Posts
On October 11 2019 00:13 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 00:04 Jockmcplop wrote:With all the 'fuck you blizzard' everyone seems to have forgotten to answer this question: On October 10 2019 03:06 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 10 2019 00:55 HornyHerring wrote:
Am I the only one that feels this is in no way political? He acted like a retard spewing his own agenda abusing his broadcast time on Blizzards cost and got punished for it. I feel that if he was to do the same but instead talk about brexit or some other shit it would have ended up the same. Hmm This seems harsh on the caster, but from Blizzard's POV this is correct. Are we asking them to be arbiters of exactly what politics is allowed or are we asking them to allow all politics?
If the answer is neither then Blizzard made the right call If Blizzard has allowed other people to talk about politics then fair enough, fuck blizzard, but if not it just seems like they have a rule and decided not to allow someone to break that rule. The main issue here seems to be that people think that because of the nature of the situation in Hong Kong the rule shouldn't apply in this case but no-one has explained why. Even the guy that got banned said he expected this. The rule is vague and there’s no real precedent to compare it with. I do not personally believe, and discussed this exact point with a compatriot earlier that if a Northern Irish player made a statement about having a United Irish state, that they would have been punished in this particular manner, or any comparable Western nation’s particular political cause of the day.
Now, I concede I have fuck all to actually back that up with bar intuition and Blizzard’s rather grovelling Chinese statement. If it was a blanket rule on political statements, a statement akin to ‘We are an international company with fans and players from all over the world, we regret to take this action but we feel it necessary to keep our platforms open for all peoples’ or something would have sufficed.
This is probably true. If we had some data or some previous occurrence we could look at then fine I would happily join in with the condemnation of Blizzard. Until then this seems a bit like badly thought out internet outrage.
I would wager that there wouldn't be any near as much anger if it wasn't for that recent episode of South Park. That in itself should make people think twice. Faddish groupthink isn't going to help here.
I'll concede that they have handled this very badly though.
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United Kingdom10003 Posts
On October 11 2019 00:17 Loisl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 00:04 Jockmcplop wrote:With all the 'fuck you blizzard' everyone seems to have forgotten to answer this question: On October 10 2019 03:06 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 10 2019 00:55 HornyHerring wrote:
Am I the only one that feels this is in no way political? He acted like a retard spewing his own agenda abusing his broadcast time on Blizzards cost and got punished for it. I feel that if he was to do the same but instead talk about brexit or some other shit it would have ended up the same. Hmm This seems harsh on the caster, but from Blizzard's POV this is correct. Are we asking them to be arbiters of exactly what politics is allowed or are we asking them to allow all politics?
If the answer is neither then Blizzard made the right call If Blizzard has allowed other people to talk about politics then fair enough, fuck blizzard, but if not it just seems like they have a rule and decided not to allow someone to break that rule. The main issue here seems to be that people think that because of the nature of the situation in Hong Kong the rule shouldn't apply in this case but no-one has explained why. Even the guy that got banned said he expected this. The issue is not the ban for the guy doing it (although Blizzard could of course easily decide to not fuck him over as much as they did). The circumstances, the ban for the casters and the lack of proper communication about this is what makes this political. This was clearly just Blizzard bending over to facilitate Chinas huge D entering their behind. And thats why it is a politcal matter, not just somebody getting punished for breaking the rules
What do you mean by 'the circumstances'?
Other than that, are you saying we are boycotting Blizzard for bad communication?
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On October 11 2019 00:21 Jockmcplop wrote:
Other than that, are you saying we are boycotting Blizzard for bad communication?
I have said nothing about boycotting Blizzard. Could you please not put words in the mouths of others? Would really appreciate it...
But I will now:
The "bad communication" in this context is a actually a statement with political implications. I mean, what do you think? They just forgot to properly react or had an intern without a clue handle this situation? Of course not, nobody would be stupid enough to believe that. They know what their statements (or lack thereof) induce.
So no, I do not say we should boycott Blizzard for bad communication. We should definitely boycott Blizzard for needlessly supporting a fascistic regime, though.
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United Kingdom10003 Posts
On October 11 2019 00:32 Loisl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 00:21 Jockmcplop wrote:
Other than that, are you saying we are boycotting Blizzard for bad communication? I have said nothing about boycotting Blizzard. Could you please not put words in the mouths of others? Would really appreciate it... But I will now: The "bad communication" in this context is a actually a statement with political implications. I mean, what do you think? They just forgot to properly react or had an intern without a clue handle this situation? Of course not, nobody would be stupid enough to believe that. They know what their statements (or lack thereof) induce. So no, I do not say we should boycott Blizzard for bad communication. We should definitely boycott Blizzard for needlessly supporting a fascistic regime, though.
Other people are boycotting blizzard, you are saying its for bad communication.
I don't really understand where you're coming from to be honest.
The guy broke a rule, information on what happened with the casters is pretty hard to come by, but if they also broke the same rule then that's why they were banned.
It looks to me like you and the people with their false twitter/reddit outrage are the ones making this political. I don't blame you, China has been in the news alot recently.
Unless you can prove to me that Blizzard did this to politically support China, not to enforce the same rule they always enforce in every tournament, if you can show me where the rule was broken and they didn't enforce it then I will agree 100% with what you are saying.
Otherwise this is just conspiracy theory thinking.
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On October 11 2019 00:40 Jockmcplop wrote:
Otherwise this is just conspiracy theory thinking.
You can keep seeing perfection in people and/or companies until you have prove of the opposite. And you can keep telling people who value reality a tiny little bit more than you do that they employ consipracy theory thinking. Thats of course up to you...
lol
Also:
On October 11 2019 00:40 Jockmcplop wrote:
you are saying its for bad communication.
No. I am not. I am saying their way of communicating is a statement in itself. And it is for that statement. Please try to understand the difference.
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United Kingdom10003 Posts
On October 11 2019 00:46 Loisl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 00:40 Jockmcplop wrote:
Otherwise this is just conspiracy theory thinking.
You can keep seeing perfection in people and/or companies until you have prove of the opposite. And you can keep telling people who value reality a tiny little bit more than you do that they employ consipracy theory thinking. Thats of course up to you... lol
If you read what I'm saying objectively you will see that what you have posted here is nonsense. What are you on about 'valuing reality'?
I don't see perfection in Blizzard or any other company. I see a situation where they are saying 'no politics' and a bunch of people are outraged because they want THEIR politics to take precedent and be allowed.
Put it this way, would you want a situation where a caster could start off Blizzcon by saying "Ban immigration from Mexico! Make America Great Again!" and not get punished by Blizzard?
Its like people think Blizzard have an obligation to promote some set of values in the world. If you think this is true the problem is much deeper than Blizzard, I'm afraid, and you will have to look at the entire capitalist system.
If we're approaching it on those terms I can get with what you're saying.
I also find it hilarious how annoyed you seem to be that I dare question the wisdom of Reddit outrage, and then accuse me of not valuing reality.
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On October 11 2019 00:52 Jockmcplop wrote:
Its like people think Blizzard have an obligation to promote some set of values in the world. If you think this is true the problem is much deeper than Blizzard, I'm afraid, and you will have to look at the entire capitalist system.
If we're approaching it on those terms I can get with what you're saying.
I specifically said that the problem is not the ban for the guy doing it, but how they managed the rest of the situation. Please try to read more thoroughly. Then you won't run into the problem of putting words in the mouths of others or assuming what others are thinking again.
Especially since you even admit you dont understand where I am coming from. Why the fuck would you make assumptions then? And not just react to the argument? Do you really need ammunition for ad hominem attacks so badly?
The way you "discuss" is beyond disgusting and I will refrain from continuing this conversation. Have a nice life.
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United Kingdom10003 Posts
Wow.
That was a bit much Loisi.
BTW if you don't want people misinterpreting what you're saying, maybe try ACTUALLY saying something. You have been extremely vague.
Can you even say exactly why you're so angry?
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Northern Ireland27446 Posts
On October 11 2019 00:52 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 00:46 Loisl wrote:On October 11 2019 00:40 Jockmcplop wrote:
Otherwise this is just conspiracy theory thinking.
You can keep seeing perfection in people and/or companies until you have prove of the opposite. And you can keep telling people who value reality a tiny little bit more than you do that they employ consipracy theory thinking. Thats of course up to you... lol If you read what I'm saying objectively you will see that what you have posted here is nonsense. What are you on about 'valuing reality'? I don't see perfection in Blizzard or any other company. I see a situation where they are saying 'no politics' and a bunch of people are outraged because they want THEIR politics to take precedent and be allowed. Put it this way, would you want a situation where a caster could start off Blizzcon by saying "Ban immigration from Mexico! Make America Great Again!" and not get punished by Blizzard? Its like people think Blizzard have an obligation to promote some set of values in the world. If you think this is true the problem is much deeper than Blizzard, I'm afraid, and you will have to look at the entire capitalist system. If we're approaching it on those terms I can get with what you're saying. I also find it hilarious how annoyed you seem to be that I dare question the wisdom of Reddit outrage, and then accuse me of not valuing reality.
The problem is much deeper than Blizzard, but at least I can just not buy their products and punish that particular company for their decisions, feels I have more agency in this domain than fucking voting anyway.
And yes I’m not a particular fan of capitalism, but people are to blame here. The mechanisms of redress are there already in boycotts, just few people actually bridge that gap between Reddit outrage and actually doing anything.
I think there’s a pronounced difference between actively pushing and promoting certain Western values to other climes, and completely bending over in deferring to sensitive political/cultural issues in other parts of the world.
A neutral position to me is Blizzard punishing him not as harshly as they did, and making a neutral statement about keeping politics out of these things.
Instead the punishment was punitive, the casters were also punished and the Blizzard statement to the Chinese audience was very much akin to ‘we’ve got your back over the guy who said the mean things’
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On October 11 2019 01:07 Jockmcplop wrote:
Can you even say exactly why you're so angry?
I fail to see where my statements convey anger. You just keep assuming whatever the fuck you like. And that is exactly why our discussion is over.
Also, I think you would be really shocked if you ever came across a person that really is angry :D
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Northern Ireland27446 Posts
Jock didn’t say anything particularly unreasonable, where he did assume things one could clear up and respond to such assumptions.
Chill out man
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United Kingdom10003 Posts
On October 11 2019 01:17 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 00:52 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 11 2019 00:46 Loisl wrote:On October 11 2019 00:40 Jockmcplop wrote:
Otherwise this is just conspiracy theory thinking.
You can keep seeing perfection in people and/or companies until you have prove of the opposite. And you can keep telling people who value reality a tiny little bit more than you do that they employ consipracy theory thinking. Thats of course up to you... lol If you read what I'm saying objectively you will see that what you have posted here is nonsense. What are you on about 'valuing reality'? I don't see perfection in Blizzard or any other company. I see a situation where they are saying 'no politics' and a bunch of people are outraged because they want THEIR politics to take precedent and be allowed. Put it this way, would you want a situation where a caster could start off Blizzcon by saying "Ban immigration from Mexico! Make America Great Again!" and not get punished by Blizzard? Its like people think Blizzard have an obligation to promote some set of values in the world. If you think this is true the problem is much deeper than Blizzard, I'm afraid, and you will have to look at the entire capitalist system. If we're approaching it on those terms I can get with what you're saying. I also find it hilarious how annoyed you seem to be that I dare question the wisdom of Reddit outrage, and then accuse me of not valuing reality. The problem is much deeper than Blizzard, but at least I can just not buy their products and punish that particular company for their decisions, feels I have more agency in this domain than fucking voting anyway. And yes I’m not a particular fan of capitalism, but people are to blame here. The mechanisms of redress are there already in boycotts, just few people actually bridge that gap between Reddit outrage and actually doing anything. I think there’s a pronounced difference between actively pushing and promoting certain Western values to other climes, and completely bending over in deferring to sensitive political/cultural issues in other parts of the world. A neutral position to me is Blizzard punishing him not as harshly as they did, and making a neutral statement about keeping politics out of these things. Instead the punishment was punitive, the casters were also punished and the Blizzard statement to the Chinese audience was very much akin to ‘we’ve got your back over the guy who said the mean things’
Yeah maybe you're right. I dunno. Is it rare for companies to tailor their statements to different audiences? You're right in as much as as the punishment seems excessive, and yeah their statement does read like that, but to me its just capitalism doing what capitalism does.
Their statement to China is the same as Gillette's anti-toxic-masculinity ad in as much as all that it betrays is that the company wants more $$$ and doesn't want to alienate an audience.
On October 11 2019 01:19 Loisl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 01:07 Jockmcplop wrote:
Can you even say exactly why you're so angry? I fail to see where my statements convey anger. You just keep assuming whatever the fuck you like. And that is exactly why our discussion is over. Also, I think you would be really shocked if you ever came across a person that really is angry :D
Meh.
The way you use directed swearing like this:
You just keep assuming whatever the fuck you like.
communicates anger to me.
Maybe you just swear alot.
They way you say my discussion style is 'beyond disgusting' also communicates anger. I don't think I've said anything that's beyond disgusting. Not even close. You're just being very vague and then swearing at me for filling in the massive gaps.
HONESTLY NOW
I'm just trying to figure the situation out, and I think there's really interesting things to discuss here. I don't think its as black-and-white as people say it is and I'm just probing to see where people might want to actually discuss it instead of just agreeing that we're all pissed at Blizzard about it.
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On October 11 2019 01:07 Jockmcplop wrote:
Wow.
That was a bit much Loisi.
BTW if you don't want people misinterpreting what you're saying, maybe try ACTUALLY saying something. You have been extremely vague.
Can you even say exactly why you're so angry?
This is internet rage-baiting at its worst. You don't get to tell other people how they are feeling.
Do not do this again.
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On October 11 2019 01:22 Wombat_NI wrote:
Jock didn’t say anything particularly unreasonable, where he did assume things one could clear up and respond to such assumptions.
He put words in my mouth, put me in one corner with some reddit mob, assumed my political views, accused me of consipracy thinking and being angry. Trying to clear up things just led to more personal attacks. Disgusting is the correct word for this.
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United Kingdom10003 Posts
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On October 11 2019 01:34 Jockmcplop wrote:
Please chill dude wow.
I am chilling. But even while chilling I call disgusting behavior what it is.
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United Kingdom10003 Posts
Why don't you try speaking to me like I'm a human being instead of just being so ridiculously confrontational that conversation becomes impossible?
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EPT
