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Northern Ireland23663 Posts
On October 11 2019 01:26 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 01:17 Wombat_NI wrote:On October 11 2019 00:52 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 11 2019 00:46 Loisl wrote:On October 11 2019 00:40 Jockmcplop wrote:
Otherwise this is just conspiracy theory thinking.
You can keep seeing perfection in people and/or companies until you have prove of the opposite. And you can keep telling people who value reality a tiny little bit more than you do that they employ consipracy theory thinking. Thats of course up to you... lol If you read what I'm saying objectively you will see that what you have posted here is nonsense. What are you on about 'valuing reality'? I don't see perfection in Blizzard or any other company. I see a situation where they are saying 'no politics' and a bunch of people are outraged because they want THEIR politics to take precedent and be allowed. Put it this way, would you want a situation where a caster could start off Blizzcon by saying "Ban immigration from Mexico! Make America Great Again!" and not get punished by Blizzard? Its like people think Blizzard have an obligation to promote some set of values in the world. If you think this is true the problem is much deeper than Blizzard, I'm afraid, and you will have to look at the entire capitalist system. If we're approaching it on those terms I can get with what you're saying. I also find it hilarious how annoyed you seem to be that I dare question the wisdom of Reddit outrage, and then accuse me of not valuing reality. The problem is much deeper than Blizzard, but at least I can just not buy their products and punish that particular company for their decisions, feels I have more agency in this domain than fucking voting anyway. And yes I’m not a particular fan of capitalism, but people are to blame here. The mechanisms of redress are there already in boycotts, just few people actually bridge that gap between Reddit outrage and actually doing anything. I think there’s a pronounced difference between actively pushing and promoting certain Western values to other climes, and completely bending over in deferring to sensitive political/cultural issues in other parts of the world. A neutral position to me is Blizzard punishing him not as harshly as they did, and making a neutral statement about keeping politics out of these things. Instead the punishment was punitive, the casters were also punished and the Blizzard statement to the Chinese audience was very much akin to ‘we’ve got your back over the guy who said the mean things’ Yeah maybe you're right. I dunno. Is it rare for companies to tailor their statements to different audiences? You're right in as much as as the punishment seems excessive, and yeah their statement does read like that, but to me its just capitalism doing what capitalism does. Their statement to China is the same as Gillette's anti-toxic-masculinity ad in as much as all that it betrays is that the company wants more $$$ and doesn't want to alienate an audience. Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 01:19 Loisl wrote:On October 11 2019 01:07 Jockmcplop wrote:
Can you even say exactly why you're so angry? I fail to see where my statements convey anger. You just keep assuming whatever the fuck you like. And that is exactly why our discussion is over. Also, I think you would be really shocked if you ever came across a person that really is angry :D Meh. The way you use directed swearing like this: communicates anger to me. Maybe you just swear alot. They way you say my discussion style is 'beyond disgusting' also communicates anger. I don't think I've said anything that's beyond disgusting. Not even close. You're just being very vague and then swearing at me for filling in the massive gaps. HONESTLY NOW I'm just trying to figure the situation out, and I think there's really interesting things to discuss here. I don't think its as black-and-white as people say it is and I'm just probing to see where people might want to actually discuss it instead of just agreeing that we're all pissed at Blizzard about it.
In fairness Gillette’s ad really did piss a lot of people off, I did think it was a good step for a company whose marketing has traded so heavily on traditional macho stuff to put something else out there. Although I’m still cynical as to their motives, the net output was in my opinion positive.
I shall give my particular thoughts on being pissed at Blizzard, as you do seem to genuinely know precisely why people are annoyed.
It’s a camel and straw situation for me.
1. Just the general way that things have been going in terms of industry practices in gaming.
2. Blizzard historically were a pretty decent company in this regards, they’ve declined in that particular sense since the Activision merger. The way they just shut down the HoTS scene so quickly, leaving folks out to dry would be an example of something that, while justifiable economically should not have been done as it was done. Pull the support sure, but have space for a transitional period where all those you’ve dragged in can plan for their futures.
3. My own personal political views that companies shouldn’t prop up authoritarian regimes and bend to their whiles. Do business by all means but don’t impose those values back out and into the ‘West’. I see this action as being in that domain, despite also agreeing that keeping such political protests out of eSports can be both sensible and entirely benign too.
4. Blizzard don’t make games I like any more, which kind of links to point 1. So it doesn’t particularly motivate my stance on this issue, it does at least make a boycott rather easy for me to do :p
In fairness I did cancel my Warcraft Reforged order, a game I was very excited about, but alas.
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On October 11 2019 00:04 Jockmcplop wrote:With all the 'fuck you blizzard' everyone seems to have forgotten to answer this question: Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 03:06 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 10 2019 00:55 HornyHerring wrote:
Am I the only one that feels this is in no way political? He acted like a retard spewing his own agenda abusing his broadcast time on Blizzards cost and got punished for it. I feel that if he was to do the same but instead talk about brexit or some other shit it would have ended up the same. Hmm This seems harsh on the caster, but from Blizzard's POV this is correct. Are we asking them to be arbiters of exactly what politics is allowed or are we asking them to allow all politics?
If the answer is neither then Blizzard made the right call If Blizzard has allowed other people to talk about politics then fair enough, fuck blizzard, but if not it just seems like they have a rule and decided not to allow someone to break that rule. The main issue here seems to be that people think that because of the nature of the situation in Hong Kong the rule shouldn't apply in this case but no-one has explained why. Even the guy that got banned said he expected this.
I answered already.On October 10 2019 03:23 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
There's no real justification to take away $10 000 in prize money, and ban the guy for a year and promise to never hire the 2 casters ever again. If it was a strongly worded message and a month ban, that would be appropriate to deny politics. This is a clear message to China that Blizzard is kowtowing down to Chinese political interests. The post game interviewers were from Taiwan. This is not a "no politics" stance. This is a defend PRC stance.
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On October 11 2019 01:27 Aveng3r wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 01:07 Jockmcplop wrote:
Wow.
That was a bit much Loisi.
BTW if you don't want people misinterpreting what you're saying, maybe try ACTUALLY saying something. You have been extremely vague.
Can you even say exactly why you're so angry? This is internet rage-baiting at its worst. You don't get to tell other people how they are feeling. Do not do this again.
Yeah Jockmcplop really crosses a line when he says Loisi is angry when he’s cursing him out and saying his way of discussing is “disgusting” lol.
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On October 11 2019 03:14 Gorgonoth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 01:27 Aveng3r wrote:On October 11 2019 01:07 Jockmcplop wrote:
Wow.
That was a bit much Loisi.
BTW if you don't want people misinterpreting what you're saying, maybe try ACTUALLY saying something. You have been extremely vague.
Can you even say exactly why you're so angry? This is internet rage-baiting at its worst. You don't get to tell other people how they are feeling. Do not do this again. Yeah Jockmcplop really crosses a line when he says Loisi is angry when he’s cursing him out and saying his way of discussing is “disgusting” lol.
Both sides had their role in the escalation, the quote that I took issue with serves only to stamp out any remaining thoughtful discussion.
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What’s even more effective in stamping out remaining thoughtful discussion is making incoherent responses to good points being raised and then exploding when you are asked to explain them and making personal attacks.
I just thought it was funny how Lolsi is clearly the one responsible for his lashing out and name calling , and you instead pick out the fact that Jock asked why he was so upset. No that’s not rage baiting at its worst sorry.
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Northern Ireland23663 Posts
On October 11 2019 03:40 Gorgonoth wrote:
What’s even more effective in stamping out remaining thoughtful discussion is making incoherent responses to good points being raised and then exploding when you are asked to explain them and making personal attacks.
I just thought it was funny how Lolsi is clearly the one responsible for his lashing out and name calling , and you instead pick out the fact that Jock asked why he was so upset. No that’s not rage baiting at its worst sorry.
Yes basically.
Jock was (rightly) IMO cynical about the Reddit fuelled outrage machine of which many fall into and was asking for Lolsi’s personal opinion on why he opposed this.
Which was construed as a personal attack, when really the prudent response is to differentiate yourself from that crowd and make your own position known.
It’s not a particularly aggressive line of questioning to ask specifically why this issue is important to you.
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On October 09 2019 08:26 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2019 08:12 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:On October 09 2019 07:59 BerserkSword wrote:
dont let the door hit you where the good lord [flash] split you Please elaborate. I understand its easy making a personal attack, please explain why you feel Blizzards response was the correct one? Blizzard is a company. Companies need money to survive. Money comes from doing business in the market. China is one of their Blizzard's biggest markets. When the Hearthstone GM (and I guess the casters) broke the EULA and compromised Blizzard's ability to do business in one of its biggest markets, Blizzard did what it was entitled to do as both a business and one of the the entities in the EULA, in order to control any damage done. Whether or not Blizzard made the correct move from a business standpoint is yet to be seen. However Blizzard was completely within its rights to do what it did. Saving their business from catastrophe doesnt mean they are oppressing human rights. They are not complicit in anything the Chinese central government is doing. The Hearthstone GM hijacked the platform Blizzard gave him to endangered Blizzard's business. You break rules, like the ones in the EULA, you face the consequences. It's as simple as that.
This "money before everything else" and "companies are within their rights to be greedy" mentality needs to fucking stop. Companies should be held accountable for their actions, and not defended on the basis that they are just chasing the next quarterly earnings. When a company's only goal left is to gain more money, something has gone horribly wrong. We as humans shouldn't want to live in a world where that is the norm. Companies should strive to uphold some resemblance of ethical policies as well (and despite what you might think, the vast majority does. The problem lies solely on the large conglomerates whose shareholders control all of their actions.)
Yes, Blizzard are "within their rights" to do what they did, absolutely no one is denying that, but we are "in the rights" to boycott them for it.
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On October 11 2019 04:38 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2019 08:26 BerserkSword wrote:On October 09 2019 08:12 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:On October 09 2019 07:59 BerserkSword wrote:
dont let the door hit you where the good lord [flash] split you Please elaborate. I understand its easy making a personal attack, please explain why you feel Blizzards response was the correct one? Blizzard is a company. Companies need money to survive. Money comes from doing business in the market. China is one of their Blizzard's biggest markets. When the Hearthstone GM (and I guess the casters) broke the EULA and compromised Blizzard's ability to do business in one of its biggest markets, Blizzard did what it was entitled to do as both a business and one of the the entities in the EULA, in order to control any damage done. Whether or not Blizzard made the correct move from a business standpoint is yet to be seen. However Blizzard was completely within its rights to do what it did. Saving their business from catastrophe doesnt mean they are oppressing human rights. They are not complicit in anything the Chinese central government is doing. The Hearthstone GM hijacked the platform Blizzard gave him to endangered Blizzard's business. You break rules, like the ones in the EULA, you face the consequences. It's as simple as that. This "money before everything else" and "companies are within their rights to be greedy" mentality needs to fucking stop. Companies should be held accountable for their actions, and not defended on the basis that they are just chasing the next quarterly earnings. When a company's only goal left is to gain more money, something has gone horribly wrong. We as humans shouldn't want to live in a world where that is the norm. Companies should strive to uphold some resemblance of ethical policies as well (and despite what you might think, the vast majority does. The problem lies solely on the large conglomerates whose shareholders control all of their actions.) Yes, Blizzard are "within their rights" to do what they did, absolutely no one is denying that, but we are "in the rights" to boycott them for it.
So how is boycotting Blizzard going to solve the problem of profit being the only motive for companies?
Personally I think worse things are going on daily in video games companies, things that affect consumers in a direct way instead of just "They were grovelly to China and I don't like China."
People should be boycotting companies like EA who have turned their video games into gambling for kids. Mobile game companies who live on profits basically stolen from their parents by kids. No-one's talking about boycotting companies for ingrained, serious and destructive issues like that that have an effect on millions of people.
Instead we're angry because Blizzard did what all companies basically do, which is try and keep their business prospects alive in as many markets as possible.
Admittedly they did it in a bad and stupid way. People are talking about it is as though this makes them the number one bad guy of the video game scene, which they aren't by a LONG LONG way.
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On October 11 2019 05:13 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 04:38 Excludos wrote:On October 09 2019 08:26 BerserkSword wrote:On October 09 2019 08:12 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:On October 09 2019 07:59 BerserkSword wrote:
dont let the door hit you where the good lord [flash] split you Please elaborate. I understand its easy making a personal attack, please explain why you feel Blizzards response was the correct one? Blizzard is a company. Companies need money to survive. Money comes from doing business in the market. China is one of their Blizzard's biggest markets. When the Hearthstone GM (and I guess the casters) broke the EULA and compromised Blizzard's ability to do business in one of its biggest markets, Blizzard did what it was entitled to do as both a business and one of the the entities in the EULA, in order to control any damage done. Whether or not Blizzard made the correct move from a business standpoint is yet to be seen. However Blizzard was completely within its rights to do what it did. Saving their business from catastrophe doesnt mean they are oppressing human rights. They are not complicit in anything the Chinese central government is doing. The Hearthstone GM hijacked the platform Blizzard gave him to endangered Blizzard's business. You break rules, like the ones in the EULA, you face the consequences. It's as simple as that. This "money before everything else" and "companies are within their rights to be greedy" mentality needs to fucking stop. Companies should be held accountable for their actions, and not defended on the basis that they are just chasing the next quarterly earnings. When a company's only goal left is to gain more money, something has gone horribly wrong. We as humans shouldn't want to live in a world where that is the norm. Companies should strive to uphold some resemblance of ethical policies as well (and despite what you might think, the vast majority does. The problem lies solely on the large conglomerates whose shareholders control all of their actions.) Yes, Blizzard are "within their rights" to do what they did, absolutely no one is denying that, but we are "in the rights" to boycott them for it. So how is boycotting Blizzard going to solve the problem of profit being the only motive for companies? Personally I think worse things are going on daily in video games companies, things that affect consumers in a direct way instead of just "They were grovelly to China and I don't like China." People should be boycotting companies like EA who have turned their video games into gambling for kids. Mobile game companies who live on profits basically stolen from their parents by kids. No-one's talking about boycotting companies for ingrained, serious and destructive issues like that that have an effect on millions of people. Instead we're angry because Blizzard did what all companies basically do, which is try and keep their business prospects alive in as many markets as possible. Admittedly they did it in a bad and stupid way. People are talking about it is as though this makes them the number one bad guy of the video game scene, which they aren't by a LONG LONG way.
I think you are missing a couple of aspects to this story. Blizzard appeasing their Chinese overlords to stay in their good graces would be one thing, and honestly bad enough, but it's more that they went above and beyond to defend the China while having a reputation of a company that cares about freedom of speech. Their frikkin statue outside of their offices says as much. To top it off they sent an official message through the Chinese version of Twitter stating something to the effect of that they will "Continue to defend the Chinese people". That was the nail in the coffin for me.
They didn't do this because they tried to stay apolitical, they did it because they're wholly, completely and unapologetically siding with China over Hong Kong. This, in my and many other's eyes, makes them worse than the likes of EA, who are "only" being greedy by performing unethical practices towards their own customers.
Boycotting them won't solve the problem of money being the only motivator, we can't do anything about that, but since it clearly is their motivation, it will at least hopefully force them to steer in the right direction. If the latter is going to be effective remains to be seen, but unfortunately it's the only angle of attack available to us.
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On October 11 2019 05:23 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 05:13 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 11 2019 04:38 Excludos wrote:On October 09 2019 08:26 BerserkSword wrote:On October 09 2019 08:12 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:On October 09 2019 07:59 BerserkSword wrote:
dont let the door hit you where the good lord [flash] split you Please elaborate. I understand its easy making a personal attack, please explain why you feel Blizzards response was the correct one? Blizzard is a company. Companies need money to survive. Money comes from doing business in the market. China is one of their Blizzard's biggest markets. When the Hearthstone GM (and I guess the casters) broke the EULA and compromised Blizzard's ability to do business in one of its biggest markets, Blizzard did what it was entitled to do as both a business and one of the the entities in the EULA, in order to control any damage done. Whether or not Blizzard made the correct move from a business standpoint is yet to be seen. However Blizzard was completely within its rights to do what it did. Saving their business from catastrophe doesnt mean they are oppressing human rights. They are not complicit in anything the Chinese central government is doing. The Hearthstone GM hijacked the platform Blizzard gave him to endangered Blizzard's business. You break rules, like the ones in the EULA, you face the consequences. It's as simple as that. This "money before everything else" and "companies are within their rights to be greedy" mentality needs to fucking stop. Companies should be held accountable for their actions, and not defended on the basis that they are just chasing the next quarterly earnings. When a company's only goal left is to gain more money, something has gone horribly wrong. We as humans shouldn't want to live in a world where that is the norm. Companies should strive to uphold some resemblance of ethical policies as well (and despite what you might think, the vast majority does. The problem lies solely on the large conglomerates whose shareholders control all of their actions.) Yes, Blizzard are "within their rights" to do what they did, absolutely no one is denying that, but we are "in the rights" to boycott them for it. So how is boycotting Blizzard going to solve the problem of profit being the only motive for companies? Personally I think worse things are going on daily in video games companies, things that affect consumers in a direct way instead of just "They were grovelly to China and I don't like China." People should be boycotting companies like EA who have turned their video games into gambling for kids. Mobile game companies who live on profits basically stolen from their parents by kids. No-one's talking about boycotting companies for ingrained, serious and destructive issues like that that have an effect on millions of people. Instead we're angry because Blizzard did what all companies basically do, which is try and keep their business prospects alive in as many markets as possible. Admittedly they did it in a bad and stupid way. People are talking about it is as though this makes them the number one bad guy of the video game scene, which they aren't by a LONG LONG way. I think you are missing a couple of aspects to this story. Blizzard appeasing their Chinese overlords to stay in their good graces would be one thing, and honestly bad enough, but it's more that they went above and beyond to defend the China while having a reputation of a company that cares about freedom of speech. Their frikkin statue outside of their offices says as much. To top it off they sent an official message through the Chinese version of Twitter stating something to the effect of that they will "Continue to defend the Chinese people". That was the nail in the coffin for me. They didn't do this because they tried to stay apolitical, they did it because they're wholly, completely and unapologetically siding with China over Hong Kong. This, in my and many other's eyes, makes them worse than the likes of EA, who are "only" being greedy by performing unethical practices towards their own customers. Boycotting them won't solve the problem of money being the only motivator, we can't do anything about that, but since it clearly is their motivation, it will at least hopefully force them to steer in the right direction. If the latter is going to be effective remains to be seen, but unfortunately it's the only angle of attack available to us.
Well I hope it works.
However if it does, I feel like it is a wasted opportunity to say something bigger. Blizzard have overstepped the same mark that many other companies have recently (Apple, Nike, The Gap, Disney), so maybe this protest should broaden.
If it did I would probably support it.
I think rather than throwing our weight behind this Blizzard boycott, people might be better served spending their energy finding a way to support to HK protest movement directly.
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Northern Ireland23663 Posts
On October 11 2019 05:31 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 05:23 Excludos wrote:On October 11 2019 05:13 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 11 2019 04:38 Excludos wrote:On October 09 2019 08:26 BerserkSword wrote:On October 09 2019 08:12 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:On October 09 2019 07:59 BerserkSword wrote:
dont let the door hit you where the good lord [flash] split you Please elaborate. I understand its easy making a personal attack, please explain why you feel Blizzards response was the correct one? Blizzard is a company. Companies need money to survive. Money comes from doing business in the market. China is one of their Blizzard's biggest markets. When the Hearthstone GM (and I guess the casters) broke the EULA and compromised Blizzard's ability to do business in one of its biggest markets, Blizzard did what it was entitled to do as both a business and one of the the entities in the EULA, in order to control any damage done. Whether or not Blizzard made the correct move from a business standpoint is yet to be seen. However Blizzard was completely within its rights to do what it did. Saving their business from catastrophe doesnt mean they are oppressing human rights. They are not complicit in anything the Chinese central government is doing. The Hearthstone GM hijacked the platform Blizzard gave him to endangered Blizzard's business. You break rules, like the ones in the EULA, you face the consequences. It's as simple as that. This "money before everything else" and "companies are within their rights to be greedy" mentality needs to fucking stop. Companies should be held accountable for their actions, and not defended on the basis that they are just chasing the next quarterly earnings. When a company's only goal left is to gain more money, something has gone horribly wrong. We as humans shouldn't want to live in a world where that is the norm. Companies should strive to uphold some resemblance of ethical policies as well (and despite what you might think, the vast majority does. The problem lies solely on the large conglomerates whose shareholders control all of their actions.) Yes, Blizzard are "within their rights" to do what they did, absolutely no one is denying that, but we are "in the rights" to boycott them for it. So how is boycotting Blizzard going to solve the problem of profit being the only motive for companies? Personally I think worse things are going on daily in video games companies, things that affect consumers in a direct way instead of just "They were grovelly to China and I don't like China." People should be boycotting companies like EA who have turned their video games into gambling for kids. Mobile game companies who live on profits basically stolen from their parents by kids. No-one's talking about boycotting companies for ingrained, serious and destructive issues like that that have an effect on millions of people. Instead we're angry because Blizzard did what all companies basically do, which is try and keep their business prospects alive in as many markets as possible. Admittedly they did it in a bad and stupid way. People are talking about it is as though this makes them the number one bad guy of the video game scene, which they aren't by a LONG LONG way. I think you are missing a couple of aspects to this story. Blizzard appeasing their Chinese overlords to stay in their good graces would be one thing, and honestly bad enough, but it's more that they went above and beyond to defend the China while having a reputation of a company that cares about freedom of speech. Their frikkin statue outside of their offices says as much. To top it off they sent an official message through the Chinese version of Twitter stating something to the effect of that they will "Continue to defend the Chinese people". That was the nail in the coffin for me. They didn't do this because they tried to stay apolitical, they did it because they're wholly, completely and unapologetically siding with China over Hong Kong. This, in my and many other's eyes, makes them worse than the likes of EA, who are "only" being greedy by performing unethical practices towards their own customers. Boycotting them won't solve the problem of money being the only motivator, we can't do anything about that, but since it clearly is their motivation, it will at least hopefully force them to steer in the right direction. If the latter is going to be effective remains to be seen, but unfortunately it's the only angle of attack available to us. Well I hope it works. However if it does, I feel like it is a wasted opportunity to say something bigger. Blizzard have overstepped the same mark that many other companies have recently (Apple, Nike, The Gap, Disney), so maybe this protest should broaden. If it did I would probably support it. I think rather than throwing our weight behind this Blizzard boycott, people might be better served spending their energy finding a way to support to HK protest movement directly.
How though?
I’d love such an avenue to exist I really don’t see how I can really support such things myself in any kind of effective manner.
A broadening of boycotting companies who do such things, while letting them know why though yeah, would be a good move IMO.
I’m rather torn on where the line should be though. Disney changing some elements of a film in the Chinese version, is that equivalent to censoring Westerners for political opinions? I don’t think it is, personally anyway.
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On October 11 2019 05:57 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 05:31 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 11 2019 05:23 Excludos wrote:On October 11 2019 05:13 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 11 2019 04:38 Excludos wrote:On October 09 2019 08:26 BerserkSword wrote:On October 09 2019 08:12 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:On October 09 2019 07:59 BerserkSword wrote:
dont let the door hit you where the good lord [flash] split you Please elaborate. I understand its easy making a personal attack, please explain why you feel Blizzards response was the correct one? Blizzard is a company. Companies need money to survive. Money comes from doing business in the market. China is one of their Blizzard's biggest markets. When the Hearthstone GM (and I guess the casters) broke the EULA and compromised Blizzard's ability to do business in one of its biggest markets, Blizzard did what it was entitled to do as both a business and one of the the entities in the EULA, in order to control any damage done. Whether or not Blizzard made the correct move from a business standpoint is yet to be seen. However Blizzard was completely within its rights to do what it did. Saving their business from catastrophe doesnt mean they are oppressing human rights. They are not complicit in anything the Chinese central government is doing. The Hearthstone GM hijacked the platform Blizzard gave him to endangered Blizzard's business. You break rules, like the ones in the EULA, you face the consequences. It's as simple as that. This "money before everything else" and "companies are within their rights to be greedy" mentality needs to fucking stop. Companies should be held accountable for their actions, and not defended on the basis that they are just chasing the next quarterly earnings. When a company's only goal left is to gain more money, something has gone horribly wrong. We as humans shouldn't want to live in a world where that is the norm. Companies should strive to uphold some resemblance of ethical policies as well (and despite what you might think, the vast majority does. The problem lies solely on the large conglomerates whose shareholders control all of their actions.) Yes, Blizzard are "within their rights" to do what they did, absolutely no one is denying that, but we are "in the rights" to boycott them for it. So how is boycotting Blizzard going to solve the problem of profit being the only motive for companies? Personally I think worse things are going on daily in video games companies, things that affect consumers in a direct way instead of just "They were grovelly to China and I don't like China." People should be boycotting companies like EA who have turned their video games into gambling for kids. Mobile game companies who live on profits basically stolen from their parents by kids. No-one's talking about boycotting companies for ingrained, serious and destructive issues like that that have an effect on millions of people. Instead we're angry because Blizzard did what all companies basically do, which is try and keep their business prospects alive in as many markets as possible. Admittedly they did it in a bad and stupid way. People are talking about it is as though this makes them the number one bad guy of the video game scene, which they aren't by a LONG LONG way. I think you are missing a couple of aspects to this story. Blizzard appeasing their Chinese overlords to stay in their good graces would be one thing, and honestly bad enough, but it's more that they went above and beyond to defend the China while having a reputation of a company that cares about freedom of speech. Their frikkin statue outside of their offices says as much. To top it off they sent an official message through the Chinese version of Twitter stating something to the effect of that they will "Continue to defend the Chinese people". That was the nail in the coffin for me. They didn't do this because they tried to stay apolitical, they did it because they're wholly, completely and unapologetically siding with China over Hong Kong. This, in my and many other's eyes, makes them worse than the likes of EA, who are "only" being greedy by performing unethical practices towards their own customers. Boycotting them won't solve the problem of money being the only motivator, we can't do anything about that, but since it clearly is their motivation, it will at least hopefully force them to steer in the right direction. If the latter is going to be effective remains to be seen, but unfortunately it's the only angle of attack available to us. Well I hope it works. However if it does, I feel like it is a wasted opportunity to say something bigger. Blizzard have overstepped the same mark that many other companies have recently (Apple, Nike, The Gap, Disney), so maybe this protest should broaden. If it did I would probably support it. I think rather than throwing our weight behind this Blizzard boycott, people might be better served spending their energy finding a way to support to HK protest movement directly. How though? I’d love such an avenue to exist I really don’t see how I can really support such things myself in any kind of effective manner. A broadening of boycotting companies who do such things, while letting them know why though yeah, would be a good move IMO. I’m rather torn on where the line should be though. Disney changing some elements of a film in the Chinese version, is that equivalent to censoring Westerners for political opinions? I don’t think it is, personally anyway.
I don't know how lol. Maybe pressuring domestic companies is a good way to do it.
Just a little correction, Disney changed the entire premise of Dr Strange to avoid annoying China. There's not even a mention of Tibet in the entire movie. In the comics one of the main characters is TIbetan and Dr Strange goes to Tibet to learn. This is akin to helping China erase Tibet from pop culture.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On October 11 2019 00:40 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 00:32 Loisl wrote:On October 11 2019 00:21 Jockmcplop wrote:
Other than that, are you saying we are boycotting Blizzard for bad communication? I have said nothing about boycotting Blizzard. Could you please not put words in the mouths of others? Would really appreciate it... But I will now: The "bad communication" in this context is a actually a statement with political implications. I mean, what do you think? They just forgot to properly react or had an intern without a clue handle this situation? Of course not, nobody would be stupid enough to believe that. They know what their statements (or lack thereof) induce. So no, I do not say we should boycott Blizzard for bad communication. We should definitely boycott Blizzard for needlessly supporting a fascistic regime, though. Other people are boycotting blizzard, you are saying its for bad communication. I don't really understand where you're coming from to be honest. The guy broke a rule, information on what happened with the casters is pretty hard to come by, but if they also broke the same rule then that's why they were banned. It looks to me like you and the people with their false twitter/reddit outrage are the ones making this political. I don't blame you, China has been in the news alot recently. Unless you can prove to me that Blizzard did this to politically support China, not to enforce the same rule they always enforce in every tournament, if you can show me where the rule was broken and they didn't enforce it then I will agree 100% with what you are saying. Otherwise this is just conspiracy theory thinking.
I'm surprised that no one bothered to give an answer to the casters' bit because that part felt odd to me as well. I can see why they would punish the player himself and even he expected something, but I didn't understand the casters' part until I read the following comment on reddit. The video also doesn't help their case and makes it seem obvious that they knew what they were getting themselves into when they ducked under the desk as he said it. Perhaps they thought it'll be overlooked or the punishment will be light, who knows?
RichGirlThrowaway_ 30 points · 1 day ago Gold
From my understanding, they said "say the eight words and we'll close out" or something. That being a reference to the pro-Hong Kong slogan. Assuming that's true, they specifically told him to say it, so they're inarguably accomplices. Even if not, between him obviously wearing pro-Hong Kong symbolism + them clearly ducking their heads and smirking even before he said it, they knew damn fucking well he was going to say it, and they were perfectly willing to let him on air.
I believe all 3 should have been punished. Not because China's great (lmfao) but because politicising a video game tournament is fucked up. For one, it's against the rules of the tournament so they should all absolutely have been punished for breaking the rules, but for two, it's just poor form. A lot of people watch gaming events/streams/playthroughs/tournaments to escape the shitty real world. A little bit of escapism, a little bit of peace of mind for once. Bringing all that shit right back in is fucked, people don't need it. We all already know it anyway.
I don't support Blizzard though. While I think there should be a punishment for all three people that were punished, these were clearly VASTLY too harsh. It wasn't about enforcing rules, it was about sending a political message, no argument there. If it was about the rules, the most I'd see is maybe a prize reduction or a forced apology or even a short ban for the player? Huge ban + full prize withdrawal? That's insane. For the casters, I think just telling them not to fuck with that stuff again behind the scenes would be fine. Maybe if you wanted to go further a public apology? That wouldn't work in this case because pro-Hong Kong is snowballing so it'd be awkward. Maybe a little fine or something, even? Pushing it. Firing them for life and fucking up years of ambition is sick. Repugnant.
Reference: https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/dfcvwq/taiwanese_caster_who_got_fired_by_blizzard_in/
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On October 11 2019 06:35 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 00:40 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 11 2019 00:32 Loisl wrote:On October 11 2019 00:21 Jockmcplop wrote:
Other than that, are you saying we are boycotting Blizzard for bad communication? I have said nothing about boycotting Blizzard. Could you please not put words in the mouths of others? Would really appreciate it... But I will now: The "bad communication" in this context is a actually a statement with political implications. I mean, what do you think? They just forgot to properly react or had an intern without a clue handle this situation? Of course not, nobody would be stupid enough to believe that. They know what their statements (or lack thereof) induce. So no, I do not say we should boycott Blizzard for bad communication. We should definitely boycott Blizzard for needlessly supporting a fascistic regime, though. Other people are boycotting blizzard, you are saying its for bad communication. I don't really understand where you're coming from to be honest. The guy broke a rule, information on what happened with the casters is pretty hard to come by, but if they also broke the same rule then that's why they were banned. It looks to me like you and the people with their false twitter/reddit outrage are the ones making this political. I don't blame you, China has been in the news alot recently. Unless you can prove to me that Blizzard did this to politically support China, not to enforce the same rule they always enforce in every tournament, if you can show me where the rule was broken and they didn't enforce it then I will agree 100% with what you are saying. Otherwise this is just conspiracy theory thinking. I'm surprised that no one bothered to give an answer to the casters' bit because that part felt odd to me as well. I can see why they would punish the player himself and even he expected something, but I didn't understand the casters' part until I read the following comment on reddit. The video also doesn't help their case and makes it seem obvious that they knew what they were getting themselves into when they ducked under the desk as he said it. Perhaps they thought it'll be overlooked or the punishment will be light, who knows? Show nested quote +RichGirlThrowaway_ 30 points · 1 day ago Gold
From my understanding, they said "say the eight words and we'll close out" or something. That being a reference to the pro-Hong Kong slogan. Assuming that's true, they specifically told him to say it, so they're inarguably accomplices. Even if not, between him obviously wearing pro-Hong Kong symbolism + them clearly ducking their heads and smirking even before he said it, they knew damn fucking well he was going to say it, and they were perfectly willing to let him on air.
I believe all 3 should have been punished. Not because China's great (lmfao) but because politicising a video game tournament is fucked up. For one, it's against the rules of the tournament so they should all absolutely have been punished for breaking the rules, but for two, it's just poor form. A lot of people watch gaming events/streams/playthroughs/tournaments to escape the shitty real world. A little bit of escapism, a little bit of peace of mind for once. Bringing all that shit right back in is fucked, people don't need it. We all already know it anyway.
I don't support Blizzard though. While I think there should be a punishment for all three people that were punished, these were clearly VASTLY too harsh. It wasn't about enforcing rules, it was about sending a political message, no argument there. If it was about the rules, the most I'd see is maybe a prize reduction or a forced apology or even a short ban for the player? Huge ban + full prize withdrawal? That's insane. For the casters, I think just telling them not to fuck with that stuff again behind the scenes would be fine. Maybe if you wanted to go further a public apology? That wouldn't work in this case because pro-Hong Kong is snowballing so it'd be awkward. Maybe a little fine or something, even? Pushing it. Firing them for life and fucking up years of ambition is sick. Repugnant. Reference: https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/dfcvwq/taiwanese_caster_who_got_fired_by_blizzard_in/
One of the casters released a statement later where he explained why he let the player say it.
He had been told that the post game intervju was an opportunity for the winner to express himself. In the same statement he condemned Blizzard, and vowed to never work for them or any of their games again.
The other caster was a bit more heartbroken. He went on stream a day later bawling his eyes out because of all the work he had out in to get where he was, which he felt had been flushed down the toilet.
Both of these can be found near the top on the Heartstone reddit. In fact that's where you can find most information about this story. I'm on my phone in bed atm, but if you want I can link it tomorrow when I get back on a computer.
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Northern Ireland23663 Posts
On October 11 2019 06:31 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 05:57 Wombat_NI wrote:On October 11 2019 05:31 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 11 2019 05:23 Excludos wrote:On October 11 2019 05:13 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 11 2019 04:38 Excludos wrote:On October 09 2019 08:26 BerserkSword wrote:On October 09 2019 08:12 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:On October 09 2019 07:59 BerserkSword wrote:
dont let the door hit you where the good lord [flash] split you Please elaborate. I understand its easy making a personal attack, please explain why you feel Blizzards response was the correct one? Blizzard is a company. Companies need money to survive. Money comes from doing business in the market. China is one of their Blizzard's biggest markets. When the Hearthstone GM (and I guess the casters) broke the EULA and compromised Blizzard's ability to do business in one of its biggest markets, Blizzard did what it was entitled to do as both a business and one of the the entities in the EULA, in order to control any damage done. Whether or not Blizzard made the correct move from a business standpoint is yet to be seen. However Blizzard was completely within its rights to do what it did. Saving their business from catastrophe doesnt mean they are oppressing human rights. They are not complicit in anything the Chinese central government is doing. The Hearthstone GM hijacked the platform Blizzard gave him to endangered Blizzard's business. You break rules, like the ones in the EULA, you face the consequences. It's as simple as that. This "money before everything else" and "companies are within their rights to be greedy" mentality needs to fucking stop. Companies should be held accountable for their actions, and not defended on the basis that they are just chasing the next quarterly earnings. When a company's only goal left is to gain more money, something has gone horribly wrong. We as humans shouldn't want to live in a world where that is the norm. Companies should strive to uphold some resemblance of ethical policies as well (and despite what you might think, the vast majority does. The problem lies solely on the large conglomerates whose shareholders control all of their actions.) Yes, Blizzard are "within their rights" to do what they did, absolutely no one is denying that, but we are "in the rights" to boycott them for it. So how is boycotting Blizzard going to solve the problem of profit being the only motive for companies? Personally I think worse things are going on daily in video games companies, things that affect consumers in a direct way instead of just "They were grovelly to China and I don't like China." People should be boycotting companies like EA who have turned their video games into gambling for kids. Mobile game companies who live on profits basically stolen from their parents by kids. No-one's talking about boycotting companies for ingrained, serious and destructive issues like that that have an effect on millions of people. Instead we're angry because Blizzard did what all companies basically do, which is try and keep their business prospects alive in as many markets as possible. Admittedly they did it in a bad and stupid way. People are talking about it is as though this makes them the number one bad guy of the video game scene, which they aren't by a LONG LONG way. I think you are missing a couple of aspects to this story. Blizzard appeasing their Chinese overlords to stay in their good graces would be one thing, and honestly bad enough, but it's more that they went above and beyond to defend the China while having a reputation of a company that cares about freedom of speech. Their frikkin statue outside of their offices says as much. To top it off they sent an official message through the Chinese version of Twitter stating something to the effect of that they will "Continue to defend the Chinese people". That was the nail in the coffin for me. They didn't do this because they tried to stay apolitical, they did it because they're wholly, completely and unapologetically siding with China over Hong Kong. This, in my and many other's eyes, makes them worse than the likes of EA, who are "only" being greedy by performing unethical practices towards their own customers. Boycotting them won't solve the problem of money being the only motivator, we can't do anything about that, but since it clearly is their motivation, it will at least hopefully force them to steer in the right direction. If the latter is going to be effective remains to be seen, but unfortunately it's the only angle of attack available to us. Well I hope it works. However if it does, I feel like it is a wasted opportunity to say something bigger. Blizzard have overstepped the same mark that many other companies have recently (Apple, Nike, The Gap, Disney), so maybe this protest should broaden. If it did I would probably support it. I think rather than throwing our weight behind this Blizzard boycott, people might be better served spending their energy finding a way to support to HK protest movement directly. How though? I’d love such an avenue to exist I really don’t see how I can really support such things myself in any kind of effective manner. A broadening of boycotting companies who do such things, while letting them know why though yeah, would be a good move IMO. I’m rather torn on where the line should be though. Disney changing some elements of a film in the Chinese version, is that equivalent to censoring Westerners for political opinions? I don’t think it is, personally anyway. I don't know how lol. Maybe pressuring domestic companies is a good way to do it. Just a little correction, Disney changed the entire premise of Dr Strange to avoid annoying China. There's not even a mention of Tibet in the entire movie. In the comics one of the main characters is TIbetan and Dr Strange goes to Tibet to learn. This is akin to helping China erase Tibet from pop culture.
Just a minor detail :p But yeah thanks for the clarification.
I‘m still not in favour of that either, although I don’t think it’s quite as big a deal as censoring Western behaviour to avoid annoying China.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On October 11 2019 07:07 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 06:35 BigFan wrote:On October 11 2019 00:40 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 11 2019 00:32 Loisl wrote:On October 11 2019 00:21 Jockmcplop wrote:
Other than that, are you saying we are boycotting Blizzard for bad communication? I have said nothing about boycotting Blizzard. Could you please not put words in the mouths of others? Would really appreciate it... But I will now: The "bad communication" in this context is a actually a statement with political implications. I mean, what do you think? They just forgot to properly react or had an intern without a clue handle this situation? Of course not, nobody would be stupid enough to believe that. They know what their statements (or lack thereof) induce. So no, I do not say we should boycott Blizzard for bad communication. We should definitely boycott Blizzard for needlessly supporting a fascistic regime, though. Other people are boycotting blizzard, you are saying its for bad communication. I don't really understand where you're coming from to be honest. The guy broke a rule, information on what happened with the casters is pretty hard to come by, but if they also broke the same rule then that's why they were banned. It looks to me like you and the people with their false twitter/reddit outrage are the ones making this political. I don't blame you, China has been in the news alot recently. Unless you can prove to me that Blizzard did this to politically support China, not to enforce the same rule they always enforce in every tournament, if you can show me where the rule was broken and they didn't enforce it then I will agree 100% with what you are saying. Otherwise this is just conspiracy theory thinking. I'm surprised that no one bothered to give an answer to the casters' bit because that part felt odd to me as well. I can see why they would punish the player himself and even he expected something, but I didn't understand the casters' part until I read the following comment on reddit. The video also doesn't help their case and makes it seem obvious that they knew what they were getting themselves into when they ducked under the desk as he said it. Perhaps they thought it'll be overlooked or the punishment will be light, who knows? RichGirlThrowaway_ 30 points · 1 day ago Gold
From my understanding, they said "say the eight words and we'll close out" or something. That being a reference to the pro-Hong Kong slogan. Assuming that's true, they specifically told him to say it, so they're inarguably accomplices. Even if not, between him obviously wearing pro-Hong Kong symbolism + them clearly ducking their heads and smirking even before he said it, they knew damn fucking well he was going to say it, and they were perfectly willing to let him on air.
I believe all 3 should have been punished. Not because China's great (lmfao) but because politicising a video game tournament is fucked up. For one, it's against the rules of the tournament so they should all absolutely have been punished for breaking the rules, but for two, it's just poor form. A lot of people watch gaming events/streams/playthroughs/tournaments to escape the shitty real world. A little bit of escapism, a little bit of peace of mind for once. Bringing all that shit right back in is fucked, people don't need it. We all already know it anyway.
I don't support Blizzard though. While I think there should be a punishment for all three people that were punished, these were clearly VASTLY too harsh. It wasn't about enforcing rules, it was about sending a political message, no argument there. If it was about the rules, the most I'd see is maybe a prize reduction or a forced apology or even a short ban for the player? Huge ban + full prize withdrawal? That's insane. For the casters, I think just telling them not to fuck with that stuff again behind the scenes would be fine. Maybe if you wanted to go further a public apology? That wouldn't work in this case because pro-Hong Kong is snowballing so it'd be awkward. Maybe a little fine or something, even? Pushing it. Firing them for life and fucking up years of ambition is sick. Repugnant. Reference: https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/dfcvwq/taiwanese_caster_who_got_fired_by_blizzard_in/ One of the casters released a statement later where he explained why he let the player say it. He had been told that the post game intervju was an opportunity for the winner to express himself. In the same statement he condemned Blizzard, and vowed to never work for them or any of their games again. The other caster was a bit more heartbroken. He went on stream a day later bawling his eyes out because of all the work he had out in to get where he was, which he felt had been flushed down the toilet. Both of these can be found near the top on the Heartstone reddit. In fact that's where you can find most information about this story. I'm on my phone in bed atm, but if you want I can link it tomorrow when I get back on a computer.
And he thought that the player making a political statement wouldn't land him in any hot water considering the current HK situation? Even the player himself knew it and stated that he thought something will come of it.
The situation is saddening for sure, especially to the second caster, but what's done is done. I'm sure that a lot of other opportunities will open up for them considering the coverage this is getting.
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On October 11 2019 03:40 Gorgonoth wrote:
What’s even more effective in stamping out remaining thoughtful discussion is making incoherent responses to good points being raised and then exploding when you are asked to explain them and making personal attacks.
I just thought it was funny how Lolsi is clearly the one responsible for his lashing out and name calling , and you instead pick out the fact that Jock asked why he was so upset. No that’s not rage baiting at its worst sorry.
You do realize the guy put words in my mouth and made assumptions about my stances based solely on HIS feelings on the matter in every single reply to me? All that without addressing one single argument of mine? And garnished with personal attacks that have nothing to do with the matter?
But good thing he did it. I used bad language - not directed at anybody, but still, I shall do penance for this. Same goes for the vagueness of my language. Why dont I just use clear, definitive words for a situation where a lot of the circumstances are still in the dark? I am just a bad person. Sorry.
ROFL
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On October 11 2019 09:13 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 07:07 Excludos wrote:On October 11 2019 06:35 BigFan wrote:On October 11 2019 00:40 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 11 2019 00:32 Loisl wrote:On October 11 2019 00:21 Jockmcplop wrote:
Other than that, are you saying we are boycotting Blizzard for bad communication? I have said nothing about boycotting Blizzard. Could you please not put words in the mouths of others? Would really appreciate it... But I will now: The "bad communication" in this context is a actually a statement with political implications. I mean, what do you think? They just forgot to properly react or had an intern without a clue handle this situation? Of course not, nobody would be stupid enough to believe that. They know what their statements (or lack thereof) induce. So no, I do not say we should boycott Blizzard for bad communication. We should definitely boycott Blizzard for needlessly supporting a fascistic regime, though. Other people are boycotting blizzard, you are saying its for bad communication. I don't really understand where you're coming from to be honest. The guy broke a rule, information on what happened with the casters is pretty hard to come by, but if they also broke the same rule then that's why they were banned. It looks to me like you and the people with their false twitter/reddit outrage are the ones making this political. I don't blame you, China has been in the news alot recently. Unless you can prove to me that Blizzard did this to politically support China, not to enforce the same rule they always enforce in every tournament, if you can show me where the rule was broken and they didn't enforce it then I will agree 100% with what you are saying. Otherwise this is just conspiracy theory thinking. I'm surprised that no one bothered to give an answer to the casters' bit because that part felt odd to me as well. I can see why they would punish the player himself and even he expected something, but I didn't understand the casters' part until I read the following comment on reddit. The video also doesn't help their case and makes it seem obvious that they knew what they were getting themselves into when they ducked under the desk as he said it. Perhaps they thought it'll be overlooked or the punishment will be light, who knows? RichGirlThrowaway_ 30 points · 1 day ago Gold
From my understanding, they said "say the eight words and we'll close out" or something. That being a reference to the pro-Hong Kong slogan. Assuming that's true, they specifically told him to say it, so they're inarguably accomplices. Even if not, between him obviously wearing pro-Hong Kong symbolism + them clearly ducking their heads and smirking even before he said it, they knew damn fucking well he was going to say it, and they were perfectly willing to let him on air.
I believe all 3 should have been punished. Not because China's great (lmfao) but because politicising a video game tournament is fucked up. For one, it's against the rules of the tournament so they should all absolutely have been punished for breaking the rules, but for two, it's just poor form. A lot of people watch gaming events/streams/playthroughs/tournaments to escape the shitty real world. A little bit of escapism, a little bit of peace of mind for once. Bringing all that shit right back in is fucked, people don't need it. We all already know it anyway.
I don't support Blizzard though. While I think there should be a punishment for all three people that were punished, these were clearly VASTLY too harsh. It wasn't about enforcing rules, it was about sending a political message, no argument there. If it was about the rules, the most I'd see is maybe a prize reduction or a forced apology or even a short ban for the player? Huge ban + full prize withdrawal? That's insane. For the casters, I think just telling them not to fuck with that stuff again behind the scenes would be fine. Maybe if you wanted to go further a public apology? That wouldn't work in this case because pro-Hong Kong is snowballing so it'd be awkward. Maybe a little fine or something, even? Pushing it. Firing them for life and fucking up years of ambition is sick. Repugnant. Reference: https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/dfcvwq/taiwanese_caster_who_got_fired_by_blizzard_in/ One of the casters released a statement later where he explained why he let the player say it. He had been told that the post game intervju was an opportunity for the winner to express himself. In the same statement he condemned Blizzard, and vowed to never work for them or any of their games again. The other caster was a bit more heartbroken. He went on stream a day later bawling his eyes out because of all the work he had out in to get where he was, which he felt had been flushed down the toilet. Both of these can be found near the top on the Heartstone reddit. In fact that's where you can find most information about this story. I'm on my phone in bed atm, but if you want I can link it tomorrow when I get back on a computer. And he thought that the player making a political statement wouldn't land him in any hot water considering the current HK situation? Even the player himself knew it and stated that he thought something will come of it. The situation is saddening for sure, especially to the second caster, but what's done is done. I'm sure that a lot of other opportunities will open up for them considering the coverage this is getting.
Here's his full statement:
+ Show Spoiler +After thinking for a few days, here is my statement:
Today, I am a commentator,
The stage where the winner speaks is what he earned.
Let him talk is my job.
I did my best to complete my work according to the picture that Blizzard gave me.
The result is that it destroys your reputation and ends the cooperation.
Thank Taiwan Blizzard for the help and compensation in the process.
But for the entire "Blizzard" decision,
I can't accept it.
In the past four years, from gamer to player to commentator ,
I don’t mention much how much I invested.
In addition to the work already agreed at this stage
"I will not participate in any broadcast of Blizzard games in the future"
"I won't play any Blizzard games anymore in the future."
You have your business considerations, I have my principles,
even if the broadcast accounts for most of my income.
I don't know where to go after four years of hard work.
But I really can't agree with you.
Finally, I want to send a word of Blizzard.
#EveryVoiceMatters
Whether he expected the punishment or not (I certainly wouldn't have. It's way overboard), he sure isn't apologetic about it. He's also Taiwanese, so he probably have some not-unfounded feelings about the topic himself.
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The tournament was in Taiwan was it not? A country which currently operates as a democracy which is as democratic as Belgium and Italy if Democracy Index is to be beleived. What we have here is Blizzard deciding to make a clear statement themselves in China's favour for a foreign tournament in a democratic country.
If the tournament was in USA instead of Taiwan, to refuse to give $10 000 in tournament winnings, to ban for a year, which is a lifetime in esports and to fire 2 casters? Would people think Blizzards action was appropriate?
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Northern Ireland23663 Posts
On October 11 2019 19:02 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
The tournament was in Taiwan was it not? A country which currently operates as a democracy which is as democratic as Belgium and Italy if Democracy Index is to be beleived. What we have here is Blizzard deciding to make a clear statement themselves in China's favour for a foreign tournament in a democratic country.
If the tournament was in USA instead of Taiwan, to refuse to give $10 000 in tournament winnings, to ban for a year, which is a lifetime in esports and to fire 2 casters? Would people think Blizzards action was appropriate?
I’m more annoyed specifically at the removal of the prize money and the caster ban, it is within the rules and Blizzard’s prerogative to do so. Where it feels like it strays into punitive territory over enforcing rules about political statements, which aren’t specifically mentioned, more under the umbrella of ‘bringing x into disrepute’.
I’m not sure it matters overly where the tournament took place, but again we don’t have other comparable examples or know specifically why certain actions were taking place.
Perhaps where the broadcast physically happened matters, alternatively maybe it doesn’t as the vast majority of viewers aren’t physically in the venues but streaming from all over the place.
Difficult to say, I think/hope we’ll find out more in the future, I can’t see Blizzcon having zero people making some kind of stand on this issue, even if it’s relatively low-level.
It’s a tough one, the guy was expecting censure for his actions and I probably would have been OK with it if it’d been done in a certain way, some kind of tournament ban and a statement saying ‘we appreciate free speech but we can’t have our events be political protests as we have many fans with different views’ or something. Footballers get booked for taking shirts off in celebration, they know this but occasionally do this anyway when they’re lost in the moment and emotional and I like to see the passion. If x footballer ended up getting banned for 6 months or something that’d be ridiculous.
I’m not sure something more proportionate would have placated the flood of Reddit outrage.
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EPT
