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If you haven’t heard. Blizzard Entertainment has recently made the statement that anything negative said about China is grounds for being banned from tournaments and even the STAFF associated with the tournament permanently fired and blacklisted.
https://www.pcgamer.com/blitzchung-removed-from-hearthstone-grandmasters-for-liberate-hong-kong-comments/
This is naturally blowing up all over the internet.
Fuck you Blizzard and I mean this towards everyone that still continues to work there and for them. There should be massive walkouts and people blacklisting BLIZZARD for this.
I understand a job is a job but one needs to seriously ponder and self-reflect the message Blizzard is sending here and how we should respond to the company.
I understand that Blizzard could probably limp along for years just on its Chinese market, but the rest of the world we should be turning our backs on them.
I’m boycotting all future Blizzard/Activision games.
I know TL is a small community but hopefully with enough of us and other communities standing together we can get Blizzard to reverse their decision or we can send them into the dirt.
There will be others that have conflicting viewpoints on this. You’re all welcome to voice them.
 
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Pooh bear, Winnie the Pooh bear
Looking for fun, chasing some honey bees
Pooh bear, I know he's out there
Rumbly tumbly
Climbin' a honey tree
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Yeah blizzard that was a really bad way to censor stuff. Even if you want to keep your stuff politics-free, why ban the casters...
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fuck the companies bending over backwards for China, enabling this behaviour only empowers them to keep influencing their power; they are as much responsible for the mess of human rights in China as the CCP are.
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Good thing Blizzard is a shit company now so it's no trouble to avoid their games. Can still play the old BW, WC3, D2 etc since it was a completely different company. But yeah, shocking to see companies grovel at China's feet. I know it's billions of dollars at stake but kind of funny how different their treatment is of domestic social issues vs Chinese ones.
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Easiest uninstall of my life.
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On October 09 2019 01:05 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
Fuck you Blizzard and I mean this towards everyone that still continues to work there and for them.
I'm with you on the rest but c'mon. There are a lot of people working for the company that have absolutely no say in this and need a job. Would I recommend looking for employment elsewhere? Sure. But demanding that of people to just up and change their lives is a little harsh. It's hard enough to find a job. Even harder if we're avoiding big companies that shill to China for profit.
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I wonder if Tencent has a finger in this...
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Well....this was an interesting read, I understand what you are saying but until they make another Broodwar Clone that suffices, I will be staying playing Blizzard games =P
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I will not uninstall BW and SC2, because Blizzard's stupidity doesn't make them bad games over night.
But I will not spend money on any Blizzard game for some time.
Not wanting any political stuff on a cast is fine, lots of sports have rules for that.
But they handled the whole issue terribly.
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Fuck you Blizzard
precisely so
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I happen to agree. This seems to be a disturbingly widespread company policy - have you followed the shitshow that is unfolding in NBA circles?
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Blitzchung has been found in breach of Section 6.1 of the 2019 Hearthstone Grandmasters Official Competition Rules, which forbids:
Engaging in any act that, in Blizzard’s sole discretion, brings you into public disrepute, offends a portion or group of the public, or otherwise damages Blizzard image will result in removal from Grandmasters and reduction of the player’s prize total to $0 USD, in addition to other remedies which may be provided for under the Handbook and Blizzard’s Website Terms.
For Blizzard, no matter how they reacted to this, they had to damage themselves. China's market is more valuable than the western market. It is an economic decision. A decision they hoped they never would have to make by having players and casters sign these very specific rules. Break them and you achieve your goal, attention; meanwhile Blizzard bleeds and gets drawn into a political conflict when they just want profit, so I totally understand that they take their frustrations out on the rule breakers.
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On October 09 2019 04:45 neobowman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2019 01:05 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
Fuck you Blizzard and I mean this towards everyone that still continues to work there and for them. I'm with you on the rest but c'mon. There are a lot of people working for the company that have absolutely no say in this and need a job. Would I recommend looking for employment elsewhere? Sure. But demanding that of people to just up and change their lives is a little harsh. It's hard enough to find a job. Even harder if we're avoiding big companies that shill to China for profit.
Short term If the employees organized a walk out/protest, the hundreds of them, you bet there would be a faster response to this bullshit. (Edit: Some employees are protesting, good on them.)
Long term, get the heck out of dodge when you can. Unless you’re okay with that kind of morality then keep on keeping on I guess.
And honestly players and organizations should drop Blizzard games all together and play other eSports and watch other eSports. I’m not asking anyone to take this stance with me. It’s all personal choice but I’m boycotting all Officially Sponsored Blizzard eSports tournaments by not participating nor viewing the games on twitch.
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dont let the door hit you where the good lord [flash] split you
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On October 09 2019 07:59 BerserkSword wrote:
dont let the door hit you where the good lord [flash] split you
Please elaborate. I understand its easy making a personal attack, please explain why you feel Blizzards response was the correct one?
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On October 09 2019 08:12 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2019 07:59 BerserkSword wrote:
dont let the door hit you where the good lord [flash] split you Please elaborate. I understand its easy making a personal attack, please explain why you feel Blizzards response was the correct one?
Blizzard is a company. Companies need money to survive. Money comes from doing business in the market. China is one of their Blizzard's biggest markets. When the Hearthstone GM (and I guess the casters) broke the EULA and compromised Blizzard's ability to do business in one of its biggest markets, Blizzard did what it was entitled to do as both a business and one of the the entities in the EULA, in order to control any damage done.
Whether or not Blizzard made the correct move from a business standpoint is yet to be seen. However Blizzard was completely within its rights to do what it did. Saving their business from catastrophe doesnt mean they are oppressing human rights. They are not complicit in anything the Chinese central government is doing.
The Hearthstone GM hijacked the platform Blizzard gave him to endangered Blizzard's business.
You break rules, like the ones in the EULA, you face the consequences. It's as simple as that.
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I deleted all my battle.net stuff when I heard about it.
also because I barely played any of them and needed enough space to download Destiny 2
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On October 09 2019 08:26 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2019 08:12 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:On October 09 2019 07:59 BerserkSword wrote:
dont let the door hit you where the good lord [flash] split you Please elaborate. I understand its easy making a personal attack, please explain why you feel Blizzards response was the correct one? Blizzard is a company. Companies need money to survive. Money comes from doing business in the market. China is one of their Blizzard's biggest markets. When the Hearthstone GM (and I guess the casters) broke the EULA and compromised Blizzard's ability to do business in one of its biggest markets, Blizzard did what it was entitled to do as both a business and one of the the entities in the EULA, in order to control any damage done. Whether or not Blizzard made the correct move from a business standpoint is yet to be seen. However Blizzard was completely within its rights to do what it did. Saving their business from catastrophe doesnt mean they are oppressing human rights. They are not complicit in anything the Chinese central government is doing. The Hearthstone GM hijacked the platform Blizzard gave him to endangered Blizzard's business. You break rules, like the ones in the EULA, you face the consequences. It's as simple as that.
That is correct, Blizzard is not complicit in the Chinese Communist Party being corrupt fascist totalitarian garbage
Blizzard is merely bending the knee to the Chinese Communist Party
Until someone stands up to the Chinese Communist Party this kind of nonsense will increase
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On October 09 2019 08:26 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2019 08:12 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:On October 09 2019 07:59 BerserkSword wrote:
dont let the door hit you where the good lord [flash] split you Please elaborate. I understand its easy making a personal attack, please explain why you feel Blizzards response was the correct one? Blizzard is a company. Companies need money to survive. Money comes from doing business in the market. China is one of their Blizzard's biggest markets. When the Hearthstone GM (and I guess the casters) broke the EULA and compromised Blizzard's ability to do business in one of its biggest markets, Blizzard did what it was entitled to do as both a business and one of the the entities in the EULA, in order to control any damage done. Whether or not Blizzard made the correct move from a business standpoint is yet to be seen. However Blizzard was completely within its rights to do what it did. Saving their business from catastrophe doesnt mean they are oppressing human rights. They are not complicit in anything the Chinese central government is doing. The Hearthstone GM hijacked the platform Blizzard gave him to endangered Blizzard's business. You break rules, like the ones in the EULA, you face the consequences. It's as simple as that.
it is a company-- and not taking a stand on this is a wasted opportunity. would have many positive externalities and make good press to be the exception.
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On October 09 2019 08:26 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2019 08:12 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:On October 09 2019 07:59 BerserkSword wrote:
dont let the door hit you where the good lord [flash] split you Please elaborate. I understand its easy making a personal attack, please explain why you feel Blizzards response was the correct one? Blizzard is a company. Companies need money to survive. Money comes from doing business in the market. China is one of their Blizzard's biggest markets. When the Hearthstone GM (and I guess the casters) broke the EULA and compromised Blizzard's ability to do business in one of its biggest markets, Blizzard did what it was entitled to do as both a business and one of the the entities in the EULA, in order to control any damage done. Whether or not Blizzard made the correct move from a business standpoint is yet to be seen. However Blizzard was completely within its rights to do what it did. Saving their business from catastrophe doesnt mean they are oppressing human rights. They are not complicit in anything the Chinese central government is doing. The Hearthstone GM hijacked the platform Blizzard gave him to endangered Blizzard's business. You break rules, like the ones in the EULA, you face the consequences. It's as simple as that.
What rules did the casters break? It is a slippery slope. If Blizzard starts censoring words like "winnie" and "pooh" in their games would that still be okay if it's saving their business? (Surprise they already do this on Chinese servers) Maybe hong kong will now be added to the list as well. What about if they start reporting accounts that are caught mentioning hong kong and protests to China? Wouldn't be surprised if they're already doing it given the swift action they just took in this case.
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On October 09 2019 08:26 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2019 08:12 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:On October 09 2019 07:59 BerserkSword wrote:
dont let the door hit you where the good lord [flash] split you Please elaborate. I understand its easy making a personal attack, please explain why you feel Blizzards response was the correct one? Blizzard is a company. Companies need money to survive. Money comes from doing business in the market. China is one of their Blizzard's biggest markets. When the Hearthstone GM (and I guess the casters) broke the EULA and compromised Blizzard's ability to do business in one of its biggest markets, Blizzard did what it was entitled to do as both a business and one of the the entities in the EULA, in order to control any damage done. Whether or not Blizzard made the correct move from a business standpoint is yet to be seen. However Blizzard was completely within its rights to do what it did. Saving their business from catastrophe doesnt mean they are oppressing human rights. They are not complicit in anything the Chinese central government is doing.The Hearthstone GM hijacked the platform Blizzard gave him to endangered Blizzard's business. You break rules, like the ones in the EULA, you face the consequences. It's as simple as that.
The bolded is a terrible argument. Just because they can do something doesn't mean they should. And just because they're within their rights, again doesn't mean they should.
This didn't have to be a catastrophe for Blizzard. What I think Blizzard should have done is basically nothing. Have a press release that they respect 1 party 2 systems and respect the principles of free speech blah blah blah if they must. What they did instead is inflame their western audience to appease their Chinese audience. Seems like their actions put them into a worse situation than before.
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On October 09 2019 12:34 Cauld wrote:
This didn't have to be a catastrophe for Blizzard. What I think Blizzard should have done is basically nothing. Have a press release that they respect 1 party 2 systems and respect the principles of free speech blah blah blah if they must. What they did instead is inflame their western audience to appease their Chinese audience. Seems like their actions put them into a worse situation than before.
Kind of seems like a lose/lose situation for them. By doing nothing they potential lose a giant and growing Chinese market. It seems untenable though to have to play censorship arm for the Chinese government.
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Northern Ireland24233 Posts
Fuck this move. I’m not privy to what pressure was actually exerted on Blizzard though
There’s such a difference between a hypothetical call from some Communist Party Official threatening to revoke Blizzard’s ability to operate in China, Blizzard acting themselves to not offend the Chinese, and everything in between.
Why ban the casters? From what I’ve read they weren’t active participants in this protest, indeed looked uncomfortable, albeit I haven’t seen the footage yet myself.
It’s just a symptom of a greater malaise in the games industry, namely that just making money isn’t sufficient any more, you have to make all of the money, all the time.
I am realistic about such things, I like to think I’m not an idiot but others are free to disagree. You can make plenty of money without trying to hoover up everything.
I don’t think we’ll see anything approaching previous gaming market crashes, but a gradual homogenisation of products for this purpose, various other practices of the industry etc I’m not sure are particularly sustainable in the long term.
It’s sad man. Sad.
Played Blizzard games since the age of 6, my first foray into the world of online gaming was the first Diablo when I was but a youngling. One of my earliest memories I can recall from childhood was being tricked into TPing to my death, losing all my gear in a high level dungeon. Another player sensed my distress, probably picked up I was pretty young. Jumped into the TP, cleared the area and killed the guy. Brought me back his ear, a mechanic I was unaware of previously. My eternal gratitude was earned and we played together whenever we were both on, never really knowing anything about the human behind the keyboard at either end.
Brood War hit and I loved it, although was too young to really get proficient on it. Winning a LAN co-op game with my brother on a gigantic custom map called ‘Supercontinent’ I made, playing mouse only because we didn’t know any better. Took 10 hours over two separate sessions.
Then of course Starcraft 2 hit, I found Team Liquid, became acquainted with the many varied personalities in our scene, lost a man I felt was a good friend despite never having met him, followed tournaments for 9 years. Ran some of my own in the local community and have made lifelong friends there, invading Wardi’s stream for Ireland’s sadly short lived run in Nation Wars this year.
Went to Dreamhack Winter 2011 where my boy Liquid HerO broke his tournament duck, and in said man finally discovered someone who chainsmoked as speedily as I did. Enjoyed a brief conversation with Idra, a rather personable man when detached from the stress of competition.
Were Blizzard ever perfect, even when viewed through my nostalgic haze? No but they made good fucking games, supported their games well and their head honchos seemed to love those games and the communities they spawned.
Fuck this man, why they ever merged with Activision is beyond me. Extremely bloody disappointed, will be cancelling my Reforged order tomorrow.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
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Fuck blizzard. To deny a player his prize money, to fire two casters and essentially ruin 3 people's livelihood and then delete the video in an act of self censorship, using their rules and placing them as if they were inciting racism, all in order to placate China and its brutality.
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Italy12246 Posts
Just to be safe, I'll preface this by saying that the following are my own views and are in no way, shape or form an official stance of TL.net or the wider Teamliquid organisation (of which I'm not even part of).
Having gotten that out of the way, fuck Blizzard with a flaming cactus and fuck their authoritarian Chinese overlords. They can fuck over their franchises with pointless predatory phone games designed for the Chinese market all they want, but human rights is where one should draw the line. Taking the side of people using live ammunition against protestors is wrong, the fact that this is even up for debate is proof of just how fragile human rights are.
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it's extremely disappointing to see blizzard's overreaction, but keep in mind the larger context of the US-China trade war: many US companies are being targeted by chinese state media as perpetrating radical separatism in hong kong and unofficially being continually threatened and harassed by trade officials due to the current hostilities.
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Hey now, can't let a little genocide or human rights get in the way of business.
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Papua New Guinea1058 Posts
Am I the only one that feels this is in no way political? He acted like a retard spewing his own agenda abusing his broadcast time on Blizzards cost and got punished for it. I feel that if he was to do the same but instead talk about brexit or some other shit it would have ended up the same.
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i remember mkp had a sign he showed before a match? and it wasn't a big deal no one shat the bed
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On October 09 2019 19:32 Teoita wrote:
Just to be safe, I'll preface this by saying that the following are my own views and are in no way, shape or form an official stance of TL.net or the wider Teamliquid organisation (of which I'm not even part of).
Having gotten that out of the way, fuck Blizzard with a flaming cactus and fuck their authoritarian Chinese overlords. They can fuck over their franchises with pointless predatory phone games designed for the Chinese market all they want, but human rights is where one should draw the line. Taking the side of people using live ammunition against protestors is wrong, the fact that this is even up for debate is proof of just how fragile human rights are.
basically how I feel
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On October 10 2019 00:55 HornyHerring wrote:
Am I the only one that feels this is in no way political? He acted like a retard spewing his own agenda abusing his broadcast time on Blizzards cost and got punished for it. I feel that if he was to do the same but instead talk about brexit or some other shit it would have ended up the same.
Hmm
This seems harsh on the caster, but from Blizzard's POV this is correct.
Are we asking them to be arbiters of exactly what politics is allowed or are we asking them to allow all politics?
If the answer is neither then Blizzard made the right call
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There's no real justification to take away $10 000 in prize money, and ban the guy for a year and promise to never hire the 2 casters ever again. If it was a strongly worded message and a month ban, that would be appropriate to deny all politics. This is a clear message to China and the rest of the world that Blizzard is kowtowing down to Chinese political interests.
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On October 10 2019 03:23 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
There's no real justification to take away $10 000 in prize money, and ban the guy for a year and promise to never hire the 2 casters ever again. If it was a strongly worded message and a month ban, that would be appropriate to deny politics. This is a clear message to China that Blizzard is kowtowing down to Chinese political interests.
Yeah fair enough it was an overreaction.
The principle is correct though, they should either allow politics or not.
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
Blizzard China made these decisions and given how powerful the CCP are I'm sure it was either make this decision or put their own lives at risk.
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Glad there are a lot of people who realize how stupid this is. Seems to be waking up a lot of people to just how influential China is. Shit needs to stop.
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On October 10 2019 03:35 Qikz wrote:
Blizzard China made these decisions and given how powerful the CCP are I'm sure it was either make this decision or put their own lives at risk.
That is a good point. So many terrible stories out of the USSR where people were forced at gunpoint to make political statements that were the opposite of their beliefs. Maybe it still happens in Russia, maybe it is happening in China. You don't want to be take to the Gulag. When things are that serious and corrupt, you're throwing your life away for nothing.
But we're not in that situation, so as free people we should be willing to express our beliefs and demonstrate through our actions what we believe.
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Just checked out HS forums out of curiosity and there are shit ton of ppl who uninstalled/canceled sub and pre-order. Maybe they will think twice next time.
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On October 10 2019 03:06 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 00:55 HornyHerring wrote:
Am I the only one that feels this is in no way political? He acted like a retard spewing his own agenda abusing his broadcast time on Blizzards cost and got punished for it. I feel that if he was to do the same but instead talk about brexit or some other shit it would have ended up the same. Hmm This seems harsh on the caster, but from Blizzard's POV this is correct. Are we asking them to be arbiters of exactly what politics is allowed or are we asking them to allow all politics? If the answer is neither then Blizzard made the right call
I think it's absolutely fair for blizzard to not let their platform succumb to becoming some sort of politcal battlefield of ANY nature.It is simply not in a companies interest to agitate their customers against them. Also, their action does in no way reflect their stance on global politics and if they wanted to clearify it i doubt they would do so by letting some random gamer voice it for them. And if their casting staff failed to recongnise this on the spot then that is an excellent reason to let go of them. In this context it literally doesn't matter which party is polarized against, it could just as well have been Trumperica or any other political entity that represents a sizeable portion of their playerbase, the course of action taken by blizzard would have literally been the same.
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Northern Ireland24233 Posts
On October 10 2019 06:22 alpenrahm wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 03:06 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 10 2019 00:55 HornyHerring wrote:
Am I the only one that feels this is in no way political? He acted like a retard spewing his own agenda abusing his broadcast time on Blizzards cost and got punished for it. I feel that if he was to do the same but instead talk about brexit or some other shit it would have ended up the same. Hmm This seems harsh on the caster, but from Blizzard's POV this is correct. Are we asking them to be arbiters of exactly what politics is allowed or are we asking them to allow all politics? If the answer is neither then Blizzard made the right call I think it's absolutely fair for blizzard to not let their platform succumb to becoming some sort of politcal battlefield of ANY nature.It is simply not in a companies interest to agitate their customers against them. Also, their action does in no way reflect their stance on global politics and if they wanted to clearify it i doubt they would do so by letting some random gamer voice it for them. And if their casting staff failed to recongnise this on the spot then that is an excellent reason to let go of them. In this context it literally doesn't matter which party is polarized against, it could just as well have been Trumperica or any other political entity that represents a sizeable portion of their playerbase, the course of action taken by blizzard would have literally been the same.
No they wouldn’t. I’ve watched broadcasts where commentators have made anti-Trump comments and nothing happened at all.
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Whatever was acceptable in a previous age, the camera is always on now, and if Blizzard has taken the stance of selectively silencing the oppressed just to keep their accursed ballgame going, they ought to rope PRC broadcasts and competitions off from cultures like those of Hong Kong and RoC that somewhat value freedom, let alone from Western spectators.
Instead, all of us together watched them pull a curtain around a predator and its prey.
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yeah all people have RIGHT.
but shut up Chinese,listen to the west.because we are the greatest!
Chinese 1.4 bilion people dont have right.
lul
if there is no sino-US trade war,Americans will never support the riots in HK.Because Hong Kong has not implemented their laws and beliefs.
yeah，shut up，CN.
but i wanna say :We really believe freedom of speech, not inviting Muslims to eat pork.
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On October 09 2019 07:21 naughtDE wrote:
For Blizzard, no matter how they reacted to this, they had to damage themselves. China's market is more valuable than the western market. It is an economic decision.
https://investor.activision.com/news-releases/news-release-details/activision-blizzard-announces-fourth-quarter-and-2018-financial
For 2018, Blizzard received 25% of their total revenues from the Asia Pacific region. Some fraction of that 25% belongs to China. For Activision-Blizzard as a whole, the Asia Pacific region accounted for only 13% of total revenue. The Western market is by far more important than the Chinese one.
Their western markets could never ban all Blizzard games like the Chinese market can though. So Blizzard has to weigh the cost of losing the entire Chinese market if they don't meet their demands, versus losing some small percentage of the western market in this backlash. I don't actually believe any such demands were made here, but I have no doubt that if China perceived Blizzard's platform to be antithetical to Chinese interests, that they would brandish that power over them, and Blizzard overreacted to make sure to stay on their good side.
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On October 09 2019 19:32 Teoita wrote:
Just to be safe, I'll preface this by saying that the following are my own views and are in no way, shape or form an official stance of TL.net or the wider Teamliquid organisation (of which I'm not even part of).
Having gotten that out of the way, fuck Blizzard with a flaming cactus and fuck their authoritarian Chinese overlords. They can fuck over their franchises with pointless predatory phone games designed for the Chinese market all they want, but human rights is where one should draw the line. Taking the side of people using live ammunition against protestors is wrong, the fact that this is even up for debate is proof of just how fragile human rights are.
i invite you to do some research on why the protest started. a hongkong man killed his gf on taiwan and fly back to hk and couldnt go to jail cuz no extradictions laws. does that sound good to you?
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On October 10 2019 15:04 Major wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2019 19:32 Teoita wrote:
Just to be safe, I'll preface this by saying that the following are my own views and are in no way, shape or form an official stance of TL.net or the wider Teamliquid organisation (of which I'm not even part of).
Having gotten that out of the way, fuck Blizzard with a flaming cactus and fuck their authoritarian Chinese overlords. They can fuck over their franchises with pointless predatory phone games designed for the Chinese market all they want, but human rights is where one should draw the line. Taking the side of people using live ammunition against protestors is wrong, the fact that this is even up for debate is proof of just how fragile human rights are. i invite you to do some research on why the protest started. a hongkong man killed his gf on taiwan and fly back to hk and couldnt go to jail cuz no extradictions laws. does that sound good to you?
of course, just put the criminals in prisons! duh!
I propose we next shoot the Swiss
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I'm taking a break from my posting sabbatical to say this:
Every person who has voiced support for human rights, for fairness and against two-faced transnational corporate duplicity. Cheers to you.
Coming from a country that tramples over borders and lives with the wanton recklessness of a bull on pcp, I cannot support our involvement in anyway. We are hypocrites.
But, to the brave people of Hong Kong I wish you safety although you stand in front of a loaded gun, and to those willing to voice yourself in the vile and toxic world of gaming and esports - Thank you.
This world of full of "smart" men whose only goal in life is to argue and destroy anyone and anything that is even the slightest threat to a status quo.
Also, to anyone reading posts from Chinese users with hatred or disdain - please be kind. If your life was rated like a credit score on what you read, what you write, what you do ... it isn't just defending an ideology - it is about surviving in a country with a Billion people and a Million in concentrations camps. If your government had the ability over you that theirs does, you might be goosestepping yourself or spouting some bullshit online. For the record, I think they are batshit insane but ... I don't have a mother, or sister to protect and feed, or a job I need, or a liver that I need to keep off the "free market".
Also, to those of us with old accounts that can be traced fairly easily to our actual self - China is watching and the things you say could very well affect your ability to travel there - if you ever do.
I was unable to visit Israel based on forum comments on chessgames.com (for real) and even though I made it into China in 2017, I very much doubt they will let me back in anytime soon. I am not saying don't speak, I am saying - speak with a full heart, because your words may cost you, so make them worth it.
I am proud of so many of you for choosing to stand your ground and .... may it be the high ground!
I am so bummed that I won't be able to watch Jaedong/Flash/Serral/Dark and so many others play in major events anymore..... but yeah, Fuck the Chinese Govt. (Love to the Chinese people!).
I hope you don't mind my long post in your blog, if you do send a pm and I'll delete it.
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On October 10 2019 15:04 Major wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2019 19:32 Teoita wrote:
Just to be safe, I'll preface this by saying that the following are my own views and are in no way, shape or form an official stance of TL.net or the wider Teamliquid organisation (of which I'm not even part of).
Having gotten that out of the way, fuck Blizzard with a flaming cactus and fuck their authoritarian Chinese overlords. They can fuck over their franchises with pointless predatory phone games designed for the Chinese market all they want, but human rights is where one should draw the line. Taking the side of people using live ammunition against protestors is wrong, the fact that this is even up for debate is proof of just how fragile human rights are. i invite you to do some research on why the protest started. a hongkong man killed his gf on taiwan and fly back to hk and couldnt go to jail cuz no extradictions laws. does that sound good to you?
You really think that one incident is a good reason to allow human rights-abusing mainland China to extradite your people freely? "Does that sound good to you?" lol
Honestly, could you really not think of a better solution than that?
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On October 10 2019 16:44 De4ngus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 15:04 Major wrote:On October 09 2019 19:32 Teoita wrote:
Just to be safe, I'll preface this by saying that the following are my own views and are in no way, shape or form an official stance of TL.net or the wider Teamliquid organisation (of which I'm not even part of).
Having gotten that out of the way, fuck Blizzard with a flaming cactus and fuck their authoritarian Chinese overlords. They can fuck over their franchises with pointless predatory phone games designed for the Chinese market all they want, but human rights is where one should draw the line. Taking the side of people using live ammunition against protestors is wrong, the fact that this is even up for debate is proof of just how fragile human rights are. i invite you to do some research on why the protest started. a hongkong man killed his gf on taiwan and fly back to hk and couldnt go to jail cuz no extradictions laws. does that sound good to you? You really think that one incident is a good reason to allow human rights-abusing mainland China to extradite your people freely? "Does that sound good to you?" lol Honestly, could you really not think of a better solution than that?
at the end of the day like it or not hongkong is china so..
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Italy12246 Posts
On October 10 2019 15:04 Major wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2019 19:32 Teoita wrote:
Just to be safe, I'll preface this by saying that the following are my own views and are in no way, shape or form an official stance of TL.net or the wider Teamliquid organisation (of which I'm not even part of).
Having gotten that out of the way, fuck Blizzard with a flaming cactus and fuck their authoritarian Chinese overlords. They can fuck over their franchises with pointless predatory phone games designed for the Chinese market all they want, but human rights is where one should draw the line. Taking the side of people using live ammunition against protestors is wrong, the fact that this is even up for debate is proof of just how fragile human rights are. i invite you to do some research on why the protest started. a hongkong man killed his gf on taiwan and fly back to hk and couldnt go to jail cuz no extradictions laws. does that sound good to you?
This post makes no sense on so many different levels I can't even
a) The extradition law has much broader implications for HK's indipendence and relationship to mainland China
b) Nobody is manifesting in favour of murder
c) Using live rounds against any protest is still a breach of human rights
d) China don't exactly have the cleanest history when it comes down to repressing political dissent
e) I'm no law expert but I don't see why it would be impossible to write a law that allows extradition exclusively to Taiwan
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On October 10 2019 16:48 Major wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 16:44 De4ngus wrote:On October 10 2019 15:04 Major wrote:On October 09 2019 19:32 Teoita wrote:
Just to be safe, I'll preface this by saying that the following are my own views and are in no way, shape or form an official stance of TL.net or the wider Teamliquid organisation (of which I'm not even part of).
Having gotten that out of the way, fuck Blizzard with a flaming cactus and fuck their authoritarian Chinese overlords. They can fuck over their franchises with pointless predatory phone games designed for the Chinese market all they want, but human rights is where one should draw the line. Taking the side of people using live ammunition against protestors is wrong, the fact that this is even up for debate is proof of just how fragile human rights are. i invite you to do some research on why the protest started. a hongkong man killed his gf on taiwan and fly back to hk and couldnt go to jail cuz no extradictions laws. does that sound good to you? You really think that one incident is a good reason to allow human rights-abusing mainland China to extradite your people freely? "Does that sound good to you?" lol Honestly, could you really not think of a better solution than that? at the end of the day like it or not hongkong is china so..
Actually no, and it's why the protest happened in the first place
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-British_Joint_Declaration
"like it or not"
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On October 10 2019 16:58 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 16:48 Major wrote:On October 10 2019 16:44 De4ngus wrote:On October 10 2019 15:04 Major wrote:On October 09 2019 19:32 Teoita wrote:
Just to be safe, I'll preface this by saying that the following are my own views and are in no way, shape or form an official stance of TL.net or the wider Teamliquid organisation (of which I'm not even part of).
Having gotten that out of the way, fuck Blizzard with a flaming cactus and fuck their authoritarian Chinese overlords. They can fuck over their franchises with pointless predatory phone games designed for the Chinese market all they want, but human rights is where one should draw the line. Taking the side of people using live ammunition against protestors is wrong, the fact that this is even up for debate is proof of just how fragile human rights are. i invite you to do some research on why the protest started. a hongkong man killed his gf on taiwan and fly back to hk and couldnt go to jail cuz no extradictions laws. does that sound good to you? You really think that one incident is a good reason to allow human rights-abusing mainland China to extradite your people freely? "Does that sound good to you?" lol Honestly, could you really not think of a better solution than that? at the end of the day like it or not hongkong is china so.. Actually no, and it's why the protest happened in the first place https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-British_Joint_Declaration"like it or not"
Under the National Law of the PRC, all Hong Kong Chinese compatriots, whether they are holders of the 'British Dependent Territories Citizens' Passport' or not, are Chinese nationals. u link somethng and dont read it or what?
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On October 10 2019 17:04 Major wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 16:58 Ej_ wrote:On October 10 2019 16:48 Major wrote:On October 10 2019 16:44 De4ngus wrote:On October 10 2019 15:04 Major wrote:On October 09 2019 19:32 Teoita wrote:
Just to be safe, I'll preface this by saying that the following are my own views and are in no way, shape or form an official stance of TL.net or the wider Teamliquid organisation (of which I'm not even part of).
Having gotten that out of the way, fuck Blizzard with a flaming cactus and fuck their authoritarian Chinese overlords. They can fuck over their franchises with pointless predatory phone games designed for the Chinese market all they want, but human rights is where one should draw the line. Taking the side of people using live ammunition against protestors is wrong, the fact that this is even up for debate is proof of just how fragile human rights are. i invite you to do some research on why the protest started. a hongkong man killed his gf on taiwan and fly back to hk and couldnt go to jail cuz no extradictions laws. does that sound good to you? You really think that one incident is a good reason to allow human rights-abusing mainland China to extradite your people freely? "Does that sound good to you?" lol Honestly, could you really not think of a better solution than that? at the end of the day like it or not hongkong is china so.. Actually no, and it's why the protest happened in the first place https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-British_Joint_Declaration"like it or not" Under the National Law of the PRC, all Hong Kong Chinese compatriots, whether they are holders of the 'British Dependent Territories Citizens' Passport' or not, are Chinese nationals. u link somethng and dont read it or what?
They are citizens of China*, reside in HK which currently does not honor extradition with mainland China.
HK is to be an independent body of China until 2050 (at least in my layman understanding).
To my understanding it is also that it's a rather complicated issue for the citizens of HK themselves, hence the protests this year, regarding the proposed extradition bill.
It definitely doesn't look like "Hong Kong is China"
*although that's taken from a Wikipedia article and maybe someone might explain it better, if it's not exactly true
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On October 10 2019 17:04 Major wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 16:58 Ej_ wrote:On October 10 2019 16:48 Major wrote:On October 10 2019 16:44 De4ngus wrote:On October 10 2019 15:04 Major wrote:On October 09 2019 19:32 Teoita wrote:
Just to be safe, I'll preface this by saying that the following are my own views and are in no way, shape or form an official stance of TL.net or the wider Teamliquid organisation (of which I'm not even part of).
Having gotten that out of the way, fuck Blizzard with a flaming cactus and fuck their authoritarian Chinese overlords. They can fuck over their franchises with pointless predatory phone games designed for the Chinese market all they want, but human rights is where one should draw the line. Taking the side of people using live ammunition against protestors is wrong, the fact that this is even up for debate is proof of just how fragile human rights are. i invite you to do some research on why the protest started. a hongkong man killed his gf on taiwan and fly back to hk and couldnt go to jail cuz no extradictions laws. does that sound good to you? You really think that one incident is a good reason to allow human rights-abusing mainland China to extradite your people freely? "Does that sound good to you?" lol Honestly, could you really not think of a better solution than that? at the end of the day like it or not hongkong is china so.. Actually no, and it's why the protest happened in the first place https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-British_Joint_Declaration"like it or not" Under the National Law of the PRC, all Hong Kong Chinese compatriots, whether they are holders of the 'British Dependent Territories Citizens' Passport' or not, are Chinese nationals. u link somethng and dont read it or what? British Dependent Territories Citizens' Passport doesn't exist any more. Many went overseas and now have British Citizenship for instance. Does China own them too? China thinks so. Being a citizen of a country does not mean that country owns that person and should be subject to loss of rights whenever that country desires so.
People in Hong Kong no longer associate themselves as belonging to the People's Republic of China, which is funny since during the handover so many did.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On October 10 2019 17:54 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 17:04 Major wrote:On October 10 2019 16:58 Ej_ wrote:On October 10 2019 16:48 Major wrote:On October 10 2019 16:44 De4ngus wrote:On October 10 2019 15:04 Major wrote:On October 09 2019 19:32 Teoita wrote:
Just to be safe, I'll preface this by saying that the following are my own views and are in no way, shape or form an official stance of TL.net or the wider Teamliquid organisation (of which I'm not even part of).
Having gotten that out of the way, fuck Blizzard with a flaming cactus and fuck their authoritarian Chinese overlords. They can fuck over their franchises with pointless predatory phone games designed for the Chinese market all they want, but human rights is where one should draw the line. Taking the side of people using live ammunition against protestors is wrong, the fact that this is even up for debate is proof of just how fragile human rights are. i invite you to do some research on why the protest started. a hongkong man killed his gf on taiwan and fly back to hk and couldnt go to jail cuz no extradictions laws. does that sound good to you? You really think that one incident is a good reason to allow human rights-abusing mainland China to extradite your people freely? "Does that sound good to you?" lol Honestly, could you really not think of a better solution than that? at the end of the day like it or not hongkong is china so.. Actually no, and it's why the protest happened in the first place https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-British_Joint_Declaration"like it or not" Under the National Law of the PRC, all Hong Kong Chinese compatriots, whether they are holders of the 'British Dependent Territories Citizens' Passport' or not, are Chinese nationals. u link somethng and dont read it or what? British Dependent Territories Citizens' Passport doesn't exist any more. Many went overseas and now have British Citizenship for instance. Does China own them too? China thinks so. Being a citizen of a country does not mean that country owns that person and should be subject to loss of rights whenever that country desires so. People in Hong Kong no longer associate themselves as belonging to the People's Republic of China, which is funny since during the handover so many did.
honestly, China believes that all ethnic chinese, regardless of nationality, belong to China
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On October 10 2019 16:52 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 15:04 Major wrote:On October 09 2019 19:32 Teoita wrote:
Just to be safe, I'll preface this by saying that the following are my own views and are in no way, shape or form an official stance of TL.net or the wider Teamliquid organisation (of which I'm not even part of).
Having gotten that out of the way, fuck Blizzard with a flaming cactus and fuck their authoritarian Chinese overlords. They can fuck over their franchises with pointless predatory phone games designed for the Chinese market all they want, but human rights is where one should draw the line. Taking the side of people using live ammunition against protestors is wrong, the fact that this is even up for debate is proof of just how fragile human rights are. i invite you to do some research on why the protest started. a hongkong man killed his gf on taiwan and fly back to hk and couldnt go to jail cuz no extradictions laws. does that sound good to you? This post makes no sense on so many different levels I can't even a) The extradition law has much broader implications for HK's indipendence and relationship to mainland China b) Nobody is manifesting in favour of murder c) Using live rounds against any protest is still a breach of human rights d) China don't exactly have the cleanest history when it comes down to repressing political dissent e) I'm no law expert but I don't see why it would be impossible to write a law that allows extradition exclusively to Taiwan
Yep, the primary concern voiced by opponents of the extradition bill was that it basically allowed for the import of China's legal system into Hong Kong, with the latter having a very different court system that places far more importance on individual, contract, and civil rights than China's. Based on the language of the extradition bill, Hong Kong would be forced to accept and implement certain legal determinations made in China even when Hong Kong judges determine otherwise. The Hong Kong Bar Association has repeatedly pointed this out in its criticism.
The whole thing clearly contradicts the terms of the Sino-British Joint Declaration, such as "The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region will be vested with executive, legislative and independent judicial power, including that of final adjudication. The laws currently in force in Hong Kong will remain basically unchanged." The extradition bill overrides the rule that final adjudications made in Hong Kong will be respected. And that's just one of a host of the problems pointed out by the opposition.
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This is reminding me of Japan in the 1930s with the stealing and undercutting in economics by Beijing. And the belligerent talking down and threats and nationalist chest beating by Beijing. And the militarism by Beijing. And the repression and brutality and authoritarianism by Beijing, with the only difference being Beijing's main target right now is its own people when Tokyo's was the countries around Japan.
Right now.
Extremely worrying situation with China throwing its weight around more and more and the US (government, at least) shifting to a more and more confrontational stance towards the CCP. This is the kinda stuff people look back on after the war starts and say "well damn we shoulda seen it coming, look what was going on 10 years ago." :/
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On October 09 2019 08:26 BerserkSword wrote:
Blizzard is a company. Companies need money to survive.
With this argument you could justify ANY decision a company makes to increase profits. That alone should show you how flawed and shortsighted your way of thinking is.
Also, you could say that not only about companies but every single person in the world. And I certainly don't accept people wanting more money as an excuse for supporting a fascistic regime. Do you?
This, coupled with the fact that Blizzard as a company has a lot more power - and thus responsibility - than your average natural person, makes "FUCK YOU BLIZZARD" the only reasonable response to what they are doing.
I know that it is not customary to hold companies to such a high standards. On the other hand I do not see one reason why we shouldn't do it.
TLDR: Fuck you Blizzard. Fuck you very much.
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Northern Ireland24233 Posts
On October 10 2019 23:35 Loisl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2019 08:26 BerserkSword wrote:
Blizzard is a company. Companies need money to survive. With this argument you could justify ANY decision a company makes to increase profits. That alone should show you how flawed and shortsighted your way of thinking is. Also, you could say that not only about companies but every single person in the world. And I certainly don't accept people wanting more money as an excuse for supporting a fascistic regime. Do you? This, coupled with the fact that Blizzard as a company has a lot more power - and thus responsibility - than your average natural person, makes "FUCK YOU BLIZZARD" the only reasonable response to what they are doing. I know that it is not customary to hold companies to such a high standards. On the other hand I do not see one reason why we shouldn't do it. TLDR: Fuck you Blizzard. Fuck you very much.
Blizzard last time I checked became the studio it did almost entirely off Western markets anyway.
There’s plenty of money in the West to keep Blizz ticking over and ‘surviving’, they just want all the money.
It’s a problem in the industry across the board, companies don’t want to take risks on good products that merely turn a decent profit, if it’s not another Fortnite or League or WoW then why bother?
I hope that this stuff crashes on them eventually and all these greedy fucks get their just deserts, without the creatives in said companies getting fucked, but I concede that is rather unlikely.
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With all the 'fuck you blizzard' everyone seems to have forgotten to answer this question:
On October 10 2019 03:06 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 00:55 HornyHerring wrote:
Am I the only one that feels this is in no way political? He acted like a retard spewing his own agenda abusing his broadcast time on Blizzards cost and got punished for it. I feel that if he was to do the same but instead talk about brexit or some other shit it would have ended up the same. Hmm This seems harsh on the caster, but from Blizzard's POV this is correct. Are we asking them to be arbiters of exactly what politics is allowed or are we asking them to allow all politics?
If the answer is neither then Blizzard made the right call
If Blizzard has allowed other people to talk about politics then fair enough, fuck blizzard, but if not it just seems like they have a rule and decided not to allow someone to break that rule.
The main issue here seems to be that people think that because of the nature of the situation in Hong Kong the rule shouldn't apply in this case but no-one has explained why.
Even the guy that got banned said he expected this.
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Northern Ireland24233 Posts
On October 11 2019 00:04 Jockmcplop wrote:With all the 'fuck you blizzard' everyone seems to have forgotten to answer this question: Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 03:06 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 10 2019 00:55 HornyHerring wrote:
Am I the only one that feels this is in no way political? He acted like a retard spewing his own agenda abusing his broadcast time on Blizzards cost and got punished for it. I feel that if he was to do the same but instead talk about brexit or some other shit it would have ended up the same. Hmm This seems harsh on the caster, but from Blizzard's POV this is correct. Are we asking them to be arbiters of exactly what politics is allowed or are we asking them to allow all politics?
If the answer is neither then Blizzard made the right call If Blizzard has allowed other people to talk about politics then fair enough, fuck blizzard, but if not it just seems like they have a rule and decided not to allow someone to break that rule. The main issue here seems to be that people think that because of the nature of the situation in Hong Kong the rule shouldn't apply in this case but no-one has explained why. Even the guy that got banned said he expected this.
The rule is vague and there’s no real precedent to compare it with.
I do not personally believe, and discussed this exact point with a compatriot earlier that if a Northern Irish player made a statement about having a United Irish state, that they would have been punished in this particular manner, or any comparable Western nation’s particular political cause of the day.
Now, I concede I have fuck all to actually back that up with bar intuition and Blizzard’s rather grovelling Chinese statement.
If it was a blanket rule on political statements, a statement akin to ‘We are an international company with fans and players from all over the world, we regret to take this action but we feel it necessary to keep our platforms open for all peoples’ or something would have sufficed.
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On October 11 2019 00:04 Jockmcplop wrote:With all the 'fuck you blizzard' everyone seems to have forgotten to answer this question: Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 03:06 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 10 2019 00:55 HornyHerring wrote:
Am I the only one that feels this is in no way political? He acted like a retard spewing his own agenda abusing his broadcast time on Blizzards cost and got punished for it. I feel that if he was to do the same but instead talk about brexit or some other shit it would have ended up the same. Hmm This seems harsh on the caster, but from Blizzard's POV this is correct. Are we asking them to be arbiters of exactly what politics is allowed or are we asking them to allow all politics?
If the answer is neither then Blizzard made the right call If Blizzard has allowed other people to talk about politics then fair enough, fuck blizzard, but if not it just seems like they have a rule and decided not to allow someone to break that rule. The main issue here seems to be that people think that because of the nature of the situation in Hong Kong the rule shouldn't apply in this case but no-one has explained why. Even the guy that got banned said he expected this.
The issue is not the ban for the guy doing it (although Blizzard could of course easily decide to not fuck him over as much as they did).
The circumstances, the ban for the casters and the lack of proper communication about this is what makes this political. This was clearly just Blizzard bending over to facilitate Chinas huge D entering their behind. And thats why it is a politcal matter, not just somebody getting punished for breaking the rules
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On October 11 2019 00:13 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 00:04 Jockmcplop wrote:With all the 'fuck you blizzard' everyone seems to have forgotten to answer this question: On October 10 2019 03:06 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 10 2019 00:55 HornyHerring wrote:
Am I the only one that feels this is in no way political? He acted like a retard spewing his own agenda abusing his broadcast time on Blizzards cost and got punished for it. I feel that if he was to do the same but instead talk about brexit or some other shit it would have ended up the same. Hmm This seems harsh on the caster, but from Blizzard's POV this is correct. Are we asking them to be arbiters of exactly what politics is allowed or are we asking them to allow all politics?
If the answer is neither then Blizzard made the right call If Blizzard has allowed other people to talk about politics then fair enough, fuck blizzard, but if not it just seems like they have a rule and decided not to allow someone to break that rule. The main issue here seems to be that people think that because of the nature of the situation in Hong Kong the rule shouldn't apply in this case but no-one has explained why. Even the guy that got banned said he expected this. The rule is vague and there’s no real precedent to compare it with. I do not personally believe, and discussed this exact point with a compatriot earlier that if a Northern Irish player made a statement about having a United Irish state, that they would have been punished in this particular manner, or any comparable Western nation’s particular political cause of the day.
Now, I concede I have fuck all to actually back that up with bar intuition and Blizzard’s rather grovelling Chinese statement. If it was a blanket rule on political statements, a statement akin to ‘We are an international company with fans and players from all over the world, we regret to take this action but we feel it necessary to keep our platforms open for all peoples’ or something would have sufficed.
This is probably true. If we had some data or some previous occurrence we could look at then fine I would happily join in with the condemnation of Blizzard. Until then this seems a bit like badly thought out internet outrage.
I would wager that there wouldn't be any near as much anger if it wasn't for that recent episode of South Park. That in itself should make people think twice. Faddish groupthink isn't going to help here.
I'll concede that they have handled this very badly though.
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On October 11 2019 00:17 Loisl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 00:04 Jockmcplop wrote:With all the 'fuck you blizzard' everyone seems to have forgotten to answer this question: On October 10 2019 03:06 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 10 2019 00:55 HornyHerring wrote:
Am I the only one that feels this is in no way political? He acted like a retard spewing his own agenda abusing his broadcast time on Blizzards cost and got punished for it. I feel that if he was to do the same but instead talk about brexit or some other shit it would have ended up the same. Hmm This seems harsh on the caster, but from Blizzard's POV this is correct. Are we asking them to be arbiters of exactly what politics is allowed or are we asking them to allow all politics?
If the answer is neither then Blizzard made the right call If Blizzard has allowed other people to talk about politics then fair enough, fuck blizzard, but if not it just seems like they have a rule and decided not to allow someone to break that rule. The main issue here seems to be that people think that because of the nature of the situation in Hong Kong the rule shouldn't apply in this case but no-one has explained why. Even the guy that got banned said he expected this. The issue is not the ban for the guy doing it (although Blizzard could of course easily decide to not fuck him over as much as they did). The circumstances, the ban for the casters and the lack of proper communication about this is what makes this political. This was clearly just Blizzard bending over to facilitate Chinas huge D entering their behind. And thats why it is a politcal matter, not just somebody getting punished for breaking the rules
What do you mean by 'the circumstances'?
Other than that, are you saying we are boycotting Blizzard for bad communication?
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On October 11 2019 00:21 Jockmcplop wrote:
Other than that, are you saying we are boycotting Blizzard for bad communication?
I have said nothing about boycotting Blizzard. Could you please not put words in the mouths of others? Would really appreciate it...
But I will now:
The "bad communication" in this context is a actually a statement with political implications. I mean, what do you think? They just forgot to properly react or had an intern without a clue handle this situation? Of course not, nobody would be stupid enough to believe that. They know what their statements (or lack thereof) induce.
So no, I do not say we should boycott Blizzard for bad communication. We should definitely boycott Blizzard for needlessly supporting a fascistic regime, though.
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On October 11 2019 00:32 Loisl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 00:21 Jockmcplop wrote:
Other than that, are you saying we are boycotting Blizzard for bad communication? I have said nothing about boycotting Blizzard. Could you please not put words in the mouths of others? Would really appreciate it... But I will now: The "bad communication" in this context is a actually a statement with political implications. I mean, what do you think? They just forgot to properly react or had an intern without a clue handle this situation? Of course not, nobody would be stupid enough to believe that. They know what their statements (or lack thereof) induce. So no, I do not say we should boycott Blizzard for bad communication. We should definitely boycott Blizzard for needlessly supporting a fascistic regime, though.
Other people are boycotting blizzard, you are saying its for bad communication.
I don't really understand where you're coming from to be honest.
The guy broke a rule, information on what happened with the casters is pretty hard to come by, but if they also broke the same rule then that's why they were banned.
It looks to me like you and the people with their false twitter/reddit outrage are the ones making this political. I don't blame you, China has been in the news alot recently.
Unless you can prove to me that Blizzard did this to politically support China, not to enforce the same rule they always enforce in every tournament, if you can show me where the rule was broken and they didn't enforce it then I will agree 100% with what you are saying.
Otherwise this is just conspiracy theory thinking.
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On October 11 2019 00:40 Jockmcplop wrote:
Otherwise this is just conspiracy theory thinking.
You can keep seeing perfection in people and/or companies until you have prove of the opposite. And you can keep telling people who value reality a tiny little bit more than you do that they employ consipracy theory thinking. Thats of course up to you...
lol
Also:
On October 11 2019 00:40 Jockmcplop wrote:
you are saying its for bad communication.
No. I am not. I am saying their way of communicating is a statement in itself. And it is for that statement. Please try to understand the difference.
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On October 11 2019 00:46 Loisl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 00:40 Jockmcplop wrote:
Otherwise this is just conspiracy theory thinking.
You can keep seeing perfection in people and/or companies until you have prove of the opposite. And you can keep telling people who value reality a tiny little bit more than you do that they employ consipracy theory thinking. Thats of course up to you... lol
If you read what I'm saying objectively you will see that what you have posted here is nonsense. What are you on about 'valuing reality'?
I don't see perfection in Blizzard or any other company. I see a situation where they are saying 'no politics' and a bunch of people are outraged because they want THEIR politics to take precedent and be allowed.
Put it this way, would you want a situation where a caster could start off Blizzcon by saying "Ban immigration from Mexico! Make America Great Again!" and not get punished by Blizzard?
Its like people think Blizzard have an obligation to promote some set of values in the world. If you think this is true the problem is much deeper than Blizzard, I'm afraid, and you will have to look at the entire capitalist system.
If we're approaching it on those terms I can get with what you're saying.
I also find it hilarious how annoyed you seem to be that I dare question the wisdom of Reddit outrage, and then accuse me of not valuing reality.
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On October 11 2019 00:52 Jockmcplop wrote:
Its like people think Blizzard have an obligation to promote some set of values in the world. If you think this is true the problem is much deeper than Blizzard, I'm afraid, and you will have to look at the entire capitalist system.
If we're approaching it on those terms I can get with what you're saying.
I specifically said that the problem is not the ban for the guy doing it, but how they managed the rest of the situation. Please try to read more thoroughly. Then you won't run into the problem of putting words in the mouths of others or assuming what others are thinking again.
Especially since you even admit you dont understand where I am coming from. Why the fuck would you make assumptions then? And not just react to the argument? Do you really need ammunition for ad hominem attacks so badly?
The way you "discuss" is beyond disgusting and I will refrain from continuing this conversation. Have a nice life.
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Wow.
That was a bit much Loisi.
BTW if you don't want people misinterpreting what you're saying, maybe try ACTUALLY saying something. You have been extremely vague.
Can you even say exactly why you're so angry?
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Northern Ireland24233 Posts
On October 11 2019 00:52 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 00:46 Loisl wrote:On October 11 2019 00:40 Jockmcplop wrote:
Otherwise this is just conspiracy theory thinking.
You can keep seeing perfection in people and/or companies until you have prove of the opposite. And you can keep telling people who value reality a tiny little bit more than you do that they employ consipracy theory thinking. Thats of course up to you... lol If you read what I'm saying objectively you will see that what you have posted here is nonsense. What are you on about 'valuing reality'? I don't see perfection in Blizzard or any other company. I see a situation where they are saying 'no politics' and a bunch of people are outraged because they want THEIR politics to take precedent and be allowed. Put it this way, would you want a situation where a caster could start off Blizzcon by saying "Ban immigration from Mexico! Make America Great Again!" and not get punished by Blizzard? Its like people think Blizzard have an obligation to promote some set of values in the world. If you think this is true the problem is much deeper than Blizzard, I'm afraid, and you will have to look at the entire capitalist system. If we're approaching it on those terms I can get with what you're saying. I also find it hilarious how annoyed you seem to be that I dare question the wisdom of Reddit outrage, and then accuse me of not valuing reality.
The problem is much deeper than Blizzard, but at least I can just not buy their products and punish that particular company for their decisions, feels I have more agency in this domain than fucking voting anyway.
And yes I’m not a particular fan of capitalism, but people are to blame here. The mechanisms of redress are there already in boycotts, just few people actually bridge that gap between Reddit outrage and actually doing anything.
I think there’s a pronounced difference between actively pushing and promoting certain Western values to other climes, and completely bending over in deferring to sensitive political/cultural issues in other parts of the world.
A neutral position to me is Blizzard punishing him not as harshly as they did, and making a neutral statement about keeping politics out of these things.
Instead the punishment was punitive, the casters were also punished and the Blizzard statement to the Chinese audience was very much akin to ‘we’ve got your back over the guy who said the mean things’
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On October 11 2019 01:07 Jockmcplop wrote:
Can you even say exactly why you're so angry?
I fail to see where my statements convey anger. You just keep assuming whatever the fuck you like. And that is exactly why our discussion is over.
Also, I think you would be really shocked if you ever came across a person that really is angry :D
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Northern Ireland24233 Posts
Jock didn’t say anything particularly unreasonable, where he did assume things one could clear up and respond to such assumptions.
Chill out man
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On October 11 2019 01:17 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 00:52 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 11 2019 00:46 Loisl wrote:On October 11 2019 00:40 Jockmcplop wrote:
Otherwise this is just conspiracy theory thinking.
You can keep seeing perfection in people and/or companies until you have prove of the opposite. And you can keep telling people who value reality a tiny little bit more than you do that they employ consipracy theory thinking. Thats of course up to you... lol If you read what I'm saying objectively you will see that what you have posted here is nonsense. What are you on about 'valuing reality'? I don't see perfection in Blizzard or any other company. I see a situation where they are saying 'no politics' and a bunch of people are outraged because they want THEIR politics to take precedent and be allowed. Put it this way, would you want a situation where a caster could start off Blizzcon by saying "Ban immigration from Mexico! Make America Great Again!" and not get punished by Blizzard? Its like people think Blizzard have an obligation to promote some set of values in the world. If you think this is true the problem is much deeper than Blizzard, I'm afraid, and you will have to look at the entire capitalist system. If we're approaching it on those terms I can get with what you're saying. I also find it hilarious how annoyed you seem to be that I dare question the wisdom of Reddit outrage, and then accuse me of not valuing reality. The problem is much deeper than Blizzard, but at least I can just not buy their products and punish that particular company for their decisions, feels I have more agency in this domain than fucking voting anyway. And yes I’m not a particular fan of capitalism, but people are to blame here. The mechanisms of redress are there already in boycotts, just few people actually bridge that gap between Reddit outrage and actually doing anything. I think there’s a pronounced difference between actively pushing and promoting certain Western values to other climes, and completely bending over in deferring to sensitive political/cultural issues in other parts of the world. A neutral position to me is Blizzard punishing him not as harshly as they did, and making a neutral statement about keeping politics out of these things. Instead the punishment was punitive, the casters were also punished and the Blizzard statement to the Chinese audience was very much akin to ‘we’ve got your back over the guy who said the mean things’
Yeah maybe you're right. I dunno. Is it rare for companies to tailor their statements to different audiences? You're right in as much as as the punishment seems excessive, and yeah their statement does read like that, but to me its just capitalism doing what capitalism does.
Their statement to China is the same as Gillette's anti-toxic-masculinity ad in as much as all that it betrays is that the company wants more $$$ and doesn't want to alienate an audience.
On October 11 2019 01:19 Loisl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 01:07 Jockmcplop wrote:
Can you even say exactly why you're so angry? I fail to see where my statements convey anger. You just keep assuming whatever the fuck you like. And that is exactly why our discussion is over. Also, I think you would be really shocked if you ever came across a person that really is angry :D
Meh.
The way you use directed swearing like this:
You just keep assuming whatever the fuck you like.
communicates anger to me.
Maybe you just swear alot.
They way you say my discussion style is 'beyond disgusting' also communicates anger. I don't think I've said anything that's beyond disgusting. Not even close. You're just being very vague and then swearing at me for filling in the massive gaps.
HONESTLY NOW
I'm just trying to figure the situation out, and I think there's really interesting things to discuss here. I don't think its as black-and-white as people say it is and I'm just probing to see where people might want to actually discuss it instead of just agreeing that we're all pissed at Blizzard about it.
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On October 11 2019 01:07 Jockmcplop wrote:
Wow.
That was a bit much Loisi.
BTW if you don't want people misinterpreting what you're saying, maybe try ACTUALLY saying something. You have been extremely vague.
Can you even say exactly why you're so angry?
This is internet rage-baiting at its worst. You don't get to tell other people how they are feeling.
Do not do this again.
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On October 11 2019 01:22 Wombat_NI wrote:
Jock didn’t say anything particularly unreasonable, where he did assume things one could clear up and respond to such assumptions.
He put words in my mouth, put me in one corner with some reddit mob, assumed my political views, accused me of consipracy thinking and being angry. Trying to clear up things just led to more personal attacks. Disgusting is the correct word for this.
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On October 11 2019 01:34 Jockmcplop wrote:
Please chill dude wow.
I am chilling. But even while chilling I call disgusting behavior what it is.
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Why don't you try speaking to me like I'm a human being instead of just being so ridiculously confrontational that conversation becomes impossible?
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Northern Ireland24233 Posts
On October 11 2019 01:26 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 01:17 Wombat_NI wrote:On October 11 2019 00:52 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 11 2019 00:46 Loisl wrote:On October 11 2019 00:40 Jockmcplop wrote:
Otherwise this is just conspiracy theory thinking.
You can keep seeing perfection in people and/or companies until you have prove of the opposite. And you can keep telling people who value reality a tiny little bit more than you do that they employ consipracy theory thinking. Thats of course up to you... lol If you read what I'm saying objectively you will see that what you have posted here is nonsense. What are you on about 'valuing reality'? I don't see perfection in Blizzard or any other company. I see a situation where they are saying 'no politics' and a bunch of people are outraged because they want THEIR politics to take precedent and be allowed. Put it this way, would you want a situation where a caster could start off Blizzcon by saying "Ban immigration from Mexico! Make America Great Again!" and not get punished by Blizzard? Its like people think Blizzard have an obligation to promote some set of values in the world. If you think this is true the problem is much deeper than Blizzard, I'm afraid, and you will have to look at the entire capitalist system. If we're approaching it on those terms I can get with what you're saying. I also find it hilarious how annoyed you seem to be that I dare question the wisdom of Reddit outrage, and then accuse me of not valuing reality. The problem is much deeper than Blizzard, but at least I can just not buy their products and punish that particular company for their decisions, feels I have more agency in this domain than fucking voting anyway. And yes I’m not a particular fan of capitalism, but people are to blame here. The mechanisms of redress are there already in boycotts, just few people actually bridge that gap between Reddit outrage and actually doing anything. I think there’s a pronounced difference between actively pushing and promoting certain Western values to other climes, and completely bending over in deferring to sensitive political/cultural issues in other parts of the world. A neutral position to me is Blizzard punishing him not as harshly as they did, and making a neutral statement about keeping politics out of these things. Instead the punishment was punitive, the casters were also punished and the Blizzard statement to the Chinese audience was very much akin to ‘we’ve got your back over the guy who said the mean things’ Yeah maybe you're right. I dunno. Is it rare for companies to tailor their statements to different audiences? You're right in as much as as the punishment seems excessive, and yeah their statement does read like that, but to me its just capitalism doing what capitalism does. Their statement to China is the same as Gillette's anti-toxic-masculinity ad in as much as all that it betrays is that the company wants more $$$ and doesn't want to alienate an audience. Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 01:19 Loisl wrote:On October 11 2019 01:07 Jockmcplop wrote:
Can you even say exactly why you're so angry? I fail to see where my statements convey anger. You just keep assuming whatever the fuck you like. And that is exactly why our discussion is over. Also, I think you would be really shocked if you ever came across a person that really is angry :D Meh. The way you use directed swearing like this: communicates anger to me. Maybe you just swear alot. They way you say my discussion style is 'beyond disgusting' also communicates anger. I don't think I've said anything that's beyond disgusting. Not even close. You're just being very vague and then swearing at me for filling in the massive gaps. HONESTLY NOW I'm just trying to figure the situation out, and I think there's really interesting things to discuss here. I don't think its as black-and-white as people say it is and I'm just probing to see where people might want to actually discuss it instead of just agreeing that we're all pissed at Blizzard about it.
In fairness Gillette’s ad really did piss a lot of people off, I did think it was a good step for a company whose marketing has traded so heavily on traditional macho stuff to put something else out there. Although I’m still cynical as to their motives, the net output was in my opinion positive.
I shall give my particular thoughts on being pissed at Blizzard, as you do seem to genuinely know precisely why people are annoyed.
It’s a camel and straw situation for me.
1. Just the general way that things have been going in terms of industry practices in gaming.
2. Blizzard historically were a pretty decent company in this regards, they’ve declined in that particular sense since the Activision merger. The way they just shut down the HoTS scene so quickly, leaving folks out to dry would be an example of something that, while justifiable economically should not have been done as it was done. Pull the support sure, but have space for a transitional period where all those you’ve dragged in can plan for their futures.
3. My own personal political views that companies shouldn’t prop up authoritarian regimes and bend to their whiles. Do business by all means but don’t impose those values back out and into the ‘West’. I see this action as being in that domain, despite also agreeing that keeping such political protests out of eSports can be both sensible and entirely benign too.
4. Blizzard don’t make games I like any more, which kind of links to point 1. So it doesn’t particularly motivate my stance on this issue, it does at least make a boycott rather easy for me to do :p
In fairness I did cancel my Warcraft Reforged order, a game I was very excited about, but alas.
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On October 11 2019 00:04 Jockmcplop wrote:With all the 'fuck you blizzard' everyone seems to have forgotten to answer this question: Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 03:06 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 10 2019 00:55 HornyHerring wrote:
Am I the only one that feels this is in no way political? He acted like a retard spewing his own agenda abusing his broadcast time on Blizzards cost and got punished for it. I feel that if he was to do the same but instead talk about brexit or some other shit it would have ended up the same. Hmm This seems harsh on the caster, but from Blizzard's POV this is correct. Are we asking them to be arbiters of exactly what politics is allowed or are we asking them to allow all politics?
If the answer is neither then Blizzard made the right call If Blizzard has allowed other people to talk about politics then fair enough, fuck blizzard, but if not it just seems like they have a rule and decided not to allow someone to break that rule. The main issue here seems to be that people think that because of the nature of the situation in Hong Kong the rule shouldn't apply in this case but no-one has explained why. Even the guy that got banned said he expected this.
I answered already.On October 10 2019 03:23 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
There's no real justification to take away $10 000 in prize money, and ban the guy for a year and promise to never hire the 2 casters ever again. If it was a strongly worded message and a month ban, that would be appropriate to deny politics. This is a clear message to China that Blizzard is kowtowing down to Chinese political interests. The post game interviewers were from Taiwan. This is not a "no politics" stance. This is a defend PRC stance.
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On October 11 2019 01:27 Aveng3r wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 01:07 Jockmcplop wrote:
Wow.
That was a bit much Loisi.
BTW if you don't want people misinterpreting what you're saying, maybe try ACTUALLY saying something. You have been extremely vague.
Can you even say exactly why you're so angry? This is internet rage-baiting at its worst. You don't get to tell other people how they are feeling. Do not do this again.
Yeah Jockmcplop really crosses a line when he says Loisi is angry when he’s cursing him out and saying his way of discussing is “disgusting” lol.
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On October 11 2019 03:14 Gorgonoth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 01:27 Aveng3r wrote:On October 11 2019 01:07 Jockmcplop wrote:
Wow.
That was a bit much Loisi.
BTW if you don't want people misinterpreting what you're saying, maybe try ACTUALLY saying something. You have been extremely vague.
Can you even say exactly why you're so angry? This is internet rage-baiting at its worst. You don't get to tell other people how they are feeling. Do not do this again. Yeah Jockmcplop really crosses a line when he says Loisi is angry when he’s cursing him out and saying his way of discussing is “disgusting” lol.
Both sides had their role in the escalation, the quote that I took issue with serves only to stamp out any remaining thoughtful discussion.
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What’s even more effective in stamping out remaining thoughtful discussion is making incoherent responses to good points being raised and then exploding when you are asked to explain them and making personal attacks.
I just thought it was funny how Lolsi is clearly the one responsible for his lashing out and name calling , and you instead pick out the fact that Jock asked why he was so upset. No that’s not rage baiting at its worst sorry.
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Northern Ireland24233 Posts
On October 11 2019 03:40 Gorgonoth wrote:
What’s even more effective in stamping out remaining thoughtful discussion is making incoherent responses to good points being raised and then exploding when you are asked to explain them and making personal attacks.
I just thought it was funny how Lolsi is clearly the one responsible for his lashing out and name calling , and you instead pick out the fact that Jock asked why he was so upset. No that’s not rage baiting at its worst sorry.
Yes basically.
Jock was (rightly) IMO cynical about the Reddit fuelled outrage machine of which many fall into and was asking for Lolsi’s personal opinion on why he opposed this.
Which was construed as a personal attack, when really the prudent response is to differentiate yourself from that crowd and make your own position known.
It’s not a particularly aggressive line of questioning to ask specifically why this issue is important to you.
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On October 09 2019 08:26 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2019 08:12 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:On October 09 2019 07:59 BerserkSword wrote:
dont let the door hit you where the good lord [flash] split you Please elaborate. I understand its easy making a personal attack, please explain why you feel Blizzards response was the correct one? Blizzard is a company. Companies need money to survive. Money comes from doing business in the market. China is one of their Blizzard's biggest markets. When the Hearthstone GM (and I guess the casters) broke the EULA and compromised Blizzard's ability to do business in one of its biggest markets, Blizzard did what it was entitled to do as both a business and one of the the entities in the EULA, in order to control any damage done. Whether or not Blizzard made the correct move from a business standpoint is yet to be seen. However Blizzard was completely within its rights to do what it did. Saving their business from catastrophe doesnt mean they are oppressing human rights. They are not complicit in anything the Chinese central government is doing. The Hearthstone GM hijacked the platform Blizzard gave him to endangered Blizzard's business. You break rules, like the ones in the EULA, you face the consequences. It's as simple as that.
This "money before everything else" and "companies are within their rights to be greedy" mentality needs to fucking stop. Companies should be held accountable for their actions, and not defended on the basis that they are just chasing the next quarterly earnings. When a company's only goal left is to gain more money, something has gone horribly wrong. We as humans shouldn't want to live in a world where that is the norm. Companies should strive to uphold some resemblance of ethical policies as well (and despite what you might think, the vast majority does. The problem lies solely on the large conglomerates whose shareholders control all of their actions.)
Yes, Blizzard are "within their rights" to do what they did, absolutely no one is denying that, but we are "in the rights" to boycott them for it.
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On October 11 2019 04:38 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2019 08:26 BerserkSword wrote:On October 09 2019 08:12 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:On October 09 2019 07:59 BerserkSword wrote:
dont let the door hit you where the good lord [flash] split you Please elaborate. I understand its easy making a personal attack, please explain why you feel Blizzards response was the correct one? Blizzard is a company. Companies need money to survive. Money comes from doing business in the market. China is one of their Blizzard's biggest markets. When the Hearthstone GM (and I guess the casters) broke the EULA and compromised Blizzard's ability to do business in one of its biggest markets, Blizzard did what it was entitled to do as both a business and one of the the entities in the EULA, in order to control any damage done. Whether or not Blizzard made the correct move from a business standpoint is yet to be seen. However Blizzard was completely within its rights to do what it did. Saving their business from catastrophe doesnt mean they are oppressing human rights. They are not complicit in anything the Chinese central government is doing. The Hearthstone GM hijacked the platform Blizzard gave him to endangered Blizzard's business. You break rules, like the ones in the EULA, you face the consequences. It's as simple as that. This "money before everything else" and "companies are within their rights to be greedy" mentality needs to fucking stop. Companies should be held accountable for their actions, and not defended on the basis that they are just chasing the next quarterly earnings. When a company's only goal left is to gain more money, something has gone horribly wrong. We as humans shouldn't want to live in a world where that is the norm. Companies should strive to uphold some resemblance of ethical policies as well (and despite what you might think, the vast majority does. The problem lies solely on the large conglomerates whose shareholders control all of their actions.) Yes, Blizzard are "within their rights" to do what they did, absolutely no one is denying that, but we are "in the rights" to boycott them for it.
So how is boycotting Blizzard going to solve the problem of profit being the only motive for companies?
Personally I think worse things are going on daily in video games companies, things that affect consumers in a direct way instead of just "They were grovelly to China and I don't like China."
People should be boycotting companies like EA who have turned their video games into gambling for kids. Mobile game companies who live on profits basically stolen from their parents by kids. No-one's talking about boycotting companies for ingrained, serious and destructive issues like that that have an effect on millions of people.
Instead we're angry because Blizzard did what all companies basically do, which is try and keep their business prospects alive in as many markets as possible.
Admittedly they did it in a bad and stupid way. People are talking about it is as though this makes them the number one bad guy of the video game scene, which they aren't by a LONG LONG way.
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On October 11 2019 05:13 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 04:38 Excludos wrote:On October 09 2019 08:26 BerserkSword wrote:On October 09 2019 08:12 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:On October 09 2019 07:59 BerserkSword wrote:
dont let the door hit you where the good lord [flash] split you Please elaborate. I understand its easy making a personal attack, please explain why you feel Blizzards response was the correct one? Blizzard is a company. Companies need money to survive. Money comes from doing business in the market. China is one of their Blizzard's biggest markets. When the Hearthstone GM (and I guess the casters) broke the EULA and compromised Blizzard's ability to do business in one of its biggest markets, Blizzard did what it was entitled to do as both a business and one of the the entities in the EULA, in order to control any damage done. Whether or not Blizzard made the correct move from a business standpoint is yet to be seen. However Blizzard was completely within its rights to do what it did. Saving their business from catastrophe doesnt mean they are oppressing human rights. They are not complicit in anything the Chinese central government is doing. The Hearthstone GM hijacked the platform Blizzard gave him to endangered Blizzard's business. You break rules, like the ones in the EULA, you face the consequences. It's as simple as that. This "money before everything else" and "companies are within their rights to be greedy" mentality needs to fucking stop. Companies should be held accountable for their actions, and not defended on the basis that they are just chasing the next quarterly earnings. When a company's only goal left is to gain more money, something has gone horribly wrong. We as humans shouldn't want to live in a world where that is the norm. Companies should strive to uphold some resemblance of ethical policies as well (and despite what you might think, the vast majority does. The problem lies solely on the large conglomerates whose shareholders control all of their actions.) Yes, Blizzard are "within their rights" to do what they did, absolutely no one is denying that, but we are "in the rights" to boycott them for it. So how is boycotting Blizzard going to solve the problem of profit being the only motive for companies? Personally I think worse things are going on daily in video games companies, things that affect consumers in a direct way instead of just "They were grovelly to China and I don't like China." People should be boycotting companies like EA who have turned their video games into gambling for kids. Mobile game companies who live on profits basically stolen from their parents by kids. No-one's talking about boycotting companies for ingrained, serious and destructive issues like that that have an effect on millions of people. Instead we're angry because Blizzard did what all companies basically do, which is try and keep their business prospects alive in as many markets as possible. Admittedly they did it in a bad and stupid way. People are talking about it is as though this makes them the number one bad guy of the video game scene, which they aren't by a LONG LONG way.
I think you are missing a couple of aspects to this story. Blizzard appeasing their Chinese overlords to stay in their good graces would be one thing, and honestly bad enough, but it's more that they went above and beyond to defend the China while having a reputation of a company that cares about freedom of speech. Their frikkin statue outside of their offices says as much. To top it off they sent an official message through the Chinese version of Twitter stating something to the effect of that they will "Continue to defend the Chinese people". That was the nail in the coffin for me.
They didn't do this because they tried to stay apolitical, they did it because they're wholly, completely and unapologetically siding with China over Hong Kong. This, in my and many other's eyes, makes them worse than the likes of EA, who are "only" being greedy by performing unethical practices towards their own customers.
Boycotting them won't solve the problem of money being the only motivator, we can't do anything about that, but since it clearly is their motivation, it will at least hopefully force them to steer in the right direction. If the latter is going to be effective remains to be seen, but unfortunately it's the only angle of attack available to us.
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On October 11 2019 05:23 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 05:13 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 11 2019 04:38 Excludos wrote:On October 09 2019 08:26 BerserkSword wrote:On October 09 2019 08:12 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:On October 09 2019 07:59 BerserkSword wrote:
dont let the door hit you where the good lord [flash] split you Please elaborate. I understand its easy making a personal attack, please explain why you feel Blizzards response was the correct one? Blizzard is a company. Companies need money to survive. Money comes from doing business in the market. China is one of their Blizzard's biggest markets. When the Hearthstone GM (and I guess the casters) broke the EULA and compromised Blizzard's ability to do business in one of its biggest markets, Blizzard did what it was entitled to do as both a business and one of the the entities in the EULA, in order to control any damage done. Whether or not Blizzard made the correct move from a business standpoint is yet to be seen. However Blizzard was completely within its rights to do what it did. Saving their business from catastrophe doesnt mean they are oppressing human rights. They are not complicit in anything the Chinese central government is doing. The Hearthstone GM hijacked the platform Blizzard gave him to endangered Blizzard's business. You break rules, like the ones in the EULA, you face the consequences. It's as simple as that. This "money before everything else" and "companies are within their rights to be greedy" mentality needs to fucking stop. Companies should be held accountable for their actions, and not defended on the basis that they are just chasing the next quarterly earnings. When a company's only goal left is to gain more money, something has gone horribly wrong. We as humans shouldn't want to live in a world where that is the norm. Companies should strive to uphold some resemblance of ethical policies as well (and despite what you might think, the vast majority does. The problem lies solely on the large conglomerates whose shareholders control all of their actions.) Yes, Blizzard are "within their rights" to do what they did, absolutely no one is denying that, but we are "in the rights" to boycott them for it. So how is boycotting Blizzard going to solve the problem of profit being the only motive for companies? Personally I think worse things are going on daily in video games companies, things that affect consumers in a direct way instead of just "They were grovelly to China and I don't like China." People should be boycotting companies like EA who have turned their video games into gambling for kids. Mobile game companies who live on profits basically stolen from their parents by kids. No-one's talking about boycotting companies for ingrained, serious and destructive issues like that that have an effect on millions of people. Instead we're angry because Blizzard did what all companies basically do, which is try and keep their business prospects alive in as many markets as possible. Admittedly they did it in a bad and stupid way. People are talking about it is as though this makes them the number one bad guy of the video game scene, which they aren't by a LONG LONG way. I think you are missing a couple of aspects to this story. Blizzard appeasing their Chinese overlords to stay in their good graces would be one thing, and honestly bad enough, but it's more that they went above and beyond to defend the China while having a reputation of a company that cares about freedom of speech. Their frikkin statue outside of their offices says as much. To top it off they sent an official message through the Chinese version of Twitter stating something to the effect of that they will "Continue to defend the Chinese people". That was the nail in the coffin for me. They didn't do this because they tried to stay apolitical, they did it because they're wholly, completely and unapologetically siding with China over Hong Kong. This, in my and many other's eyes, makes them worse than the likes of EA, who are "only" being greedy by performing unethical practices towards their own customers. Boycotting them won't solve the problem of money being the only motivator, we can't do anything about that, but since it clearly is their motivation, it will at least hopefully force them to steer in the right direction. If the latter is going to be effective remains to be seen, but unfortunately it's the only angle of attack available to us.
Well I hope it works.
However if it does, I feel like it is a wasted opportunity to say something bigger. Blizzard have overstepped the same mark that many other companies have recently (Apple, Nike, The Gap, Disney), so maybe this protest should broaden.
If it did I would probably support it.
I think rather than throwing our weight behind this Blizzard boycott, people might be better served spending their energy finding a way to support to HK protest movement directly.
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Northern Ireland24233 Posts
On October 11 2019 05:31 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 05:23 Excludos wrote:On October 11 2019 05:13 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 11 2019 04:38 Excludos wrote:On October 09 2019 08:26 BerserkSword wrote:On October 09 2019 08:12 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:On October 09 2019 07:59 BerserkSword wrote:
dont let the door hit you where the good lord [flash] split you Please elaborate. I understand its easy making a personal attack, please explain why you feel Blizzards response was the correct one? Blizzard is a company. Companies need money to survive. Money comes from doing business in the market. China is one of their Blizzard's biggest markets. When the Hearthstone GM (and I guess the casters) broke the EULA and compromised Blizzard's ability to do business in one of its biggest markets, Blizzard did what it was entitled to do as both a business and one of the the entities in the EULA, in order to control any damage done. Whether or not Blizzard made the correct move from a business standpoint is yet to be seen. However Blizzard was completely within its rights to do what it did. Saving their business from catastrophe doesnt mean they are oppressing human rights. They are not complicit in anything the Chinese central government is doing. The Hearthstone GM hijacked the platform Blizzard gave him to endangered Blizzard's business. You break rules, like the ones in the EULA, you face the consequences. It's as simple as that. This "money before everything else" and "companies are within their rights to be greedy" mentality needs to fucking stop. Companies should be held accountable for their actions, and not defended on the basis that they are just chasing the next quarterly earnings. When a company's only goal left is to gain more money, something has gone horribly wrong. We as humans shouldn't want to live in a world where that is the norm. Companies should strive to uphold some resemblance of ethical policies as well (and despite what you might think, the vast majority does. The problem lies solely on the large conglomerates whose shareholders control all of their actions.) Yes, Blizzard are "within their rights" to do what they did, absolutely no one is denying that, but we are "in the rights" to boycott them for it. So how is boycotting Blizzard going to solve the problem of profit being the only motive for companies? Personally I think worse things are going on daily in video games companies, things that affect consumers in a direct way instead of just "They were grovelly to China and I don't like China." People should be boycotting companies like EA who have turned their video games into gambling for kids. Mobile game companies who live on profits basically stolen from their parents by kids. No-one's talking about boycotting companies for ingrained, serious and destructive issues like that that have an effect on millions of people. Instead we're angry because Blizzard did what all companies basically do, which is try and keep their business prospects alive in as many markets as possible. Admittedly they did it in a bad and stupid way. People are talking about it is as though this makes them the number one bad guy of the video game scene, which they aren't by a LONG LONG way. I think you are missing a couple of aspects to this story. Blizzard appeasing their Chinese overlords to stay in their good graces would be one thing, and honestly bad enough, but it's more that they went above and beyond to defend the China while having a reputation of a company that cares about freedom of speech. Their frikkin statue outside of their offices says as much. To top it off they sent an official message through the Chinese version of Twitter stating something to the effect of that they will "Continue to defend the Chinese people". That was the nail in the coffin for me. They didn't do this because they tried to stay apolitical, they did it because they're wholly, completely and unapologetically siding with China over Hong Kong. This, in my and many other's eyes, makes them worse than the likes of EA, who are "only" being greedy by performing unethical practices towards their own customers. Boycotting them won't solve the problem of money being the only motivator, we can't do anything about that, but since it clearly is their motivation, it will at least hopefully force them to steer in the right direction. If the latter is going to be effective remains to be seen, but unfortunately it's the only angle of attack available to us. Well I hope it works. However if it does, I feel like it is a wasted opportunity to say something bigger. Blizzard have overstepped the same mark that many other companies have recently (Apple, Nike, The Gap, Disney), so maybe this protest should broaden. If it did I would probably support it. I think rather than throwing our weight behind this Blizzard boycott, people might be better served spending their energy finding a way to support to HK protest movement directly.
How though?
I’d love such an avenue to exist I really don’t see how I can really support such things myself in any kind of effective manner.
A broadening of boycotting companies who do such things, while letting them know why though yeah, would be a good move IMO.
I’m rather torn on where the line should be though. Disney changing some elements of a film in the Chinese version, is that equivalent to censoring Westerners for political opinions? I don’t think it is, personally anyway.
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On October 11 2019 05:57 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 05:31 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 11 2019 05:23 Excludos wrote:On October 11 2019 05:13 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 11 2019 04:38 Excludos wrote:On October 09 2019 08:26 BerserkSword wrote:On October 09 2019 08:12 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:On October 09 2019 07:59 BerserkSword wrote:
dont let the door hit you where the good lord [flash] split you Please elaborate. I understand its easy making a personal attack, please explain why you feel Blizzards response was the correct one? Blizzard is a company. Companies need money to survive. Money comes from doing business in the market. China is one of their Blizzard's biggest markets. When the Hearthstone GM (and I guess the casters) broke the EULA and compromised Blizzard's ability to do business in one of its biggest markets, Blizzard did what it was entitled to do as both a business and one of the the entities in the EULA, in order to control any damage done. Whether or not Blizzard made the correct move from a business standpoint is yet to be seen. However Blizzard was completely within its rights to do what it did. Saving their business from catastrophe doesnt mean they are oppressing human rights. They are not complicit in anything the Chinese central government is doing. The Hearthstone GM hijacked the platform Blizzard gave him to endangered Blizzard's business. You break rules, like the ones in the EULA, you face the consequences. It's as simple as that. This "money before everything else" and "companies are within their rights to be greedy" mentality needs to fucking stop. Companies should be held accountable for their actions, and not defended on the basis that they are just chasing the next quarterly earnings. When a company's only goal left is to gain more money, something has gone horribly wrong. We as humans shouldn't want to live in a world where that is the norm. Companies should strive to uphold some resemblance of ethical policies as well (and despite what you might think, the vast majority does. The problem lies solely on the large conglomerates whose shareholders control all of their actions.) Yes, Blizzard are "within their rights" to do what they did, absolutely no one is denying that, but we are "in the rights" to boycott them for it. So how is boycotting Blizzard going to solve the problem of profit being the only motive for companies? Personally I think worse things are going on daily in video games companies, things that affect consumers in a direct way instead of just "They were grovelly to China and I don't like China." People should be boycotting companies like EA who have turned their video games into gambling for kids. Mobile game companies who live on profits basically stolen from their parents by kids. No-one's talking about boycotting companies for ingrained, serious and destructive issues like that that have an effect on millions of people. Instead we're angry because Blizzard did what all companies basically do, which is try and keep their business prospects alive in as many markets as possible. Admittedly they did it in a bad and stupid way. People are talking about it is as though this makes them the number one bad guy of the video game scene, which they aren't by a LONG LONG way. I think you are missing a couple of aspects to this story. Blizzard appeasing their Chinese overlords to stay in their good graces would be one thing, and honestly bad enough, but it's more that they went above and beyond to defend the China while having a reputation of a company that cares about freedom of speech. Their frikkin statue outside of their offices says as much. To top it off they sent an official message through the Chinese version of Twitter stating something to the effect of that they will "Continue to defend the Chinese people". That was the nail in the coffin for me. They didn't do this because they tried to stay apolitical, they did it because they're wholly, completely and unapologetically siding with China over Hong Kong. This, in my and many other's eyes, makes them worse than the likes of EA, who are "only" being greedy by performing unethical practices towards their own customers. Boycotting them won't solve the problem of money being the only motivator, we can't do anything about that, but since it clearly is their motivation, it will at least hopefully force them to steer in the right direction. If the latter is going to be effective remains to be seen, but unfortunately it's the only angle of attack available to us. Well I hope it works. However if it does, I feel like it is a wasted opportunity to say something bigger. Blizzard have overstepped the same mark that many other companies have recently (Apple, Nike, The Gap, Disney), so maybe this protest should broaden. If it did I would probably support it. I think rather than throwing our weight behind this Blizzard boycott, people might be better served spending their energy finding a way to support to HK protest movement directly. How though? I’d love such an avenue to exist I really don’t see how I can really support such things myself in any kind of effective manner. A broadening of boycotting companies who do such things, while letting them know why though yeah, would be a good move IMO. I’m rather torn on where the line should be though. Disney changing some elements of a film in the Chinese version, is that equivalent to censoring Westerners for political opinions? I don’t think it is, personally anyway.
I don't know how lol. Maybe pressuring domestic companies is a good way to do it.
Just a little correction, Disney changed the entire premise of Dr Strange to avoid annoying China. There's not even a mention of Tibet in the entire movie. In the comics one of the main characters is TIbetan and Dr Strange goes to Tibet to learn. This is akin to helping China erase Tibet from pop culture.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On October 11 2019 00:40 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 00:32 Loisl wrote:On October 11 2019 00:21 Jockmcplop wrote:
Other than that, are you saying we are boycotting Blizzard for bad communication? I have said nothing about boycotting Blizzard. Could you please not put words in the mouths of others? Would really appreciate it... But I will now: The "bad communication" in this context is a actually a statement with political implications. I mean, what do you think? They just forgot to properly react or had an intern without a clue handle this situation? Of course not, nobody would be stupid enough to believe that. They know what their statements (or lack thereof) induce. So no, I do not say we should boycott Blizzard for bad communication. We should definitely boycott Blizzard for needlessly supporting a fascistic regime, though. Other people are boycotting blizzard, you are saying its for bad communication. I don't really understand where you're coming from to be honest. The guy broke a rule, information on what happened with the casters is pretty hard to come by, but if they also broke the same rule then that's why they were banned. It looks to me like you and the people with their false twitter/reddit outrage are the ones making this political. I don't blame you, China has been in the news alot recently. Unless you can prove to me that Blizzard did this to politically support China, not to enforce the same rule they always enforce in every tournament, if you can show me where the rule was broken and they didn't enforce it then I will agree 100% with what you are saying. Otherwise this is just conspiracy theory thinking.
I'm surprised that no one bothered to give an answer to the casters' bit because that part felt odd to me as well. I can see why they would punish the player himself and even he expected something, but I didn't understand the casters' part until I read the following comment on reddit. The video also doesn't help their case and makes it seem obvious that they knew what they were getting themselves into when they ducked under the desk as he said it. Perhaps they thought it'll be overlooked or the punishment will be light, who knows?
RichGirlThrowaway_ 30 points · 1 day ago Gold
From my understanding, they said "say the eight words and we'll close out" or something. That being a reference to the pro-Hong Kong slogan. Assuming that's true, they specifically told him to say it, so they're inarguably accomplices. Even if not, between him obviously wearing pro-Hong Kong symbolism + them clearly ducking their heads and smirking even before he said it, they knew damn fucking well he was going to say it, and they were perfectly willing to let him on air.
I believe all 3 should have been punished. Not because China's great (lmfao) but because politicising a video game tournament is fucked up. For one, it's against the rules of the tournament so they should all absolutely have been punished for breaking the rules, but for two, it's just poor form. A lot of people watch gaming events/streams/playthroughs/tournaments to escape the shitty real world. A little bit of escapism, a little bit of peace of mind for once. Bringing all that shit right back in is fucked, people don't need it. We all already know it anyway.
I don't support Blizzard though. While I think there should be a punishment for all three people that were punished, these were clearly VASTLY too harsh. It wasn't about enforcing rules, it was about sending a political message, no argument there. If it was about the rules, the most I'd see is maybe a prize reduction or a forced apology or even a short ban for the player? Huge ban + full prize withdrawal? That's insane. For the casters, I think just telling them not to fuck with that stuff again behind the scenes would be fine. Maybe if you wanted to go further a public apology? That wouldn't work in this case because pro-Hong Kong is snowballing so it'd be awkward. Maybe a little fine or something, even? Pushing it. Firing them for life and fucking up years of ambition is sick. Repugnant.
Reference: https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/dfcvwq/taiwanese_caster_who_got_fired_by_blizzard_in/
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On October 11 2019 06:35 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 00:40 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 11 2019 00:32 Loisl wrote:On October 11 2019 00:21 Jockmcplop wrote:
Other than that, are you saying we are boycotting Blizzard for bad communication? I have said nothing about boycotting Blizzard. Could you please not put words in the mouths of others? Would really appreciate it... But I will now: The "bad communication" in this context is a actually a statement with political implications. I mean, what do you think? They just forgot to properly react or had an intern without a clue handle this situation? Of course not, nobody would be stupid enough to believe that. They know what their statements (or lack thereof) induce. So no, I do not say we should boycott Blizzard for bad communication. We should definitely boycott Blizzard for needlessly supporting a fascistic regime, though. Other people are boycotting blizzard, you are saying its for bad communication. I don't really understand where you're coming from to be honest. The guy broke a rule, information on what happened with the casters is pretty hard to come by, but if they also broke the same rule then that's why they were banned. It looks to me like you and the people with their false twitter/reddit outrage are the ones making this political. I don't blame you, China has been in the news alot recently. Unless you can prove to me that Blizzard did this to politically support China, not to enforce the same rule they always enforce in every tournament, if you can show me where the rule was broken and they didn't enforce it then I will agree 100% with what you are saying. Otherwise this is just conspiracy theory thinking. I'm surprised that no one bothered to give an answer to the casters' bit because that part felt odd to me as well. I can see why they would punish the player himself and even he expected something, but I didn't understand the casters' part until I read the following comment on reddit. The video also doesn't help their case and makes it seem obvious that they knew what they were getting themselves into when they ducked under the desk as he said it. Perhaps they thought it'll be overlooked or the punishment will be light, who knows? Show nested quote +RichGirlThrowaway_ 30 points · 1 day ago Gold
From my understanding, they said "say the eight words and we'll close out" or something. That being a reference to the pro-Hong Kong slogan. Assuming that's true, they specifically told him to say it, so they're inarguably accomplices. Even if not, between him obviously wearing pro-Hong Kong symbolism + them clearly ducking their heads and smirking even before he said it, they knew damn fucking well he was going to say it, and they were perfectly willing to let him on air.
I believe all 3 should have been punished. Not because China's great (lmfao) but because politicising a video game tournament is fucked up. For one, it's against the rules of the tournament so they should all absolutely have been punished for breaking the rules, but for two, it's just poor form. A lot of people watch gaming events/streams/playthroughs/tournaments to escape the shitty real world. A little bit of escapism, a little bit of peace of mind for once. Bringing all that shit right back in is fucked, people don't need it. We all already know it anyway.
I don't support Blizzard though. While I think there should be a punishment for all three people that were punished, these were clearly VASTLY too harsh. It wasn't about enforcing rules, it was about sending a political message, no argument there. If it was about the rules, the most I'd see is maybe a prize reduction or a forced apology or even a short ban for the player? Huge ban + full prize withdrawal? That's insane. For the casters, I think just telling them not to fuck with that stuff again behind the scenes would be fine. Maybe if you wanted to go further a public apology? That wouldn't work in this case because pro-Hong Kong is snowballing so it'd be awkward. Maybe a little fine or something, even? Pushing it. Firing them for life and fucking up years of ambition is sick. Repugnant. Reference: https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/dfcvwq/taiwanese_caster_who_got_fired_by_blizzard_in/
One of the casters released a statement later where he explained why he let the player say it.
He had been told that the post game intervju was an opportunity for the winner to express himself. In the same statement he condemned Blizzard, and vowed to never work for them or any of their games again.
The other caster was a bit more heartbroken. He went on stream a day later bawling his eyes out because of all the work he had out in to get where he was, which he felt had been flushed down the toilet.
Both of these can be found near the top on the Heartstone reddit. In fact that's where you can find most information about this story. I'm on my phone in bed atm, but if you want I can link it tomorrow when I get back on a computer.
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Northern Ireland24233 Posts
On October 11 2019 06:31 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 05:57 Wombat_NI wrote:On October 11 2019 05:31 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 11 2019 05:23 Excludos wrote:On October 11 2019 05:13 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 11 2019 04:38 Excludos wrote:On October 09 2019 08:26 BerserkSword wrote:On October 09 2019 08:12 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:On October 09 2019 07:59 BerserkSword wrote:
dont let the door hit you where the good lord [flash] split you Please elaborate. I understand its easy making a personal attack, please explain why you feel Blizzards response was the correct one? Blizzard is a company. Companies need money to survive. Money comes from doing business in the market. China is one of their Blizzard's biggest markets. When the Hearthstone GM (and I guess the casters) broke the EULA and compromised Blizzard's ability to do business in one of its biggest markets, Blizzard did what it was entitled to do as both a business and one of the the entities in the EULA, in order to control any damage done. Whether or not Blizzard made the correct move from a business standpoint is yet to be seen. However Blizzard was completely within its rights to do what it did. Saving their business from catastrophe doesnt mean they are oppressing human rights. They are not complicit in anything the Chinese central government is doing. The Hearthstone GM hijacked the platform Blizzard gave him to endangered Blizzard's business. You break rules, like the ones in the EULA, you face the consequences. It's as simple as that. This "money before everything else" and "companies are within their rights to be greedy" mentality needs to fucking stop. Companies should be held accountable for their actions, and not defended on the basis that they are just chasing the next quarterly earnings. When a company's only goal left is to gain more money, something has gone horribly wrong. We as humans shouldn't want to live in a world where that is the norm. Companies should strive to uphold some resemblance of ethical policies as well (and despite what you might think, the vast majority does. The problem lies solely on the large conglomerates whose shareholders control all of their actions.) Yes, Blizzard are "within their rights" to do what they did, absolutely no one is denying that, but we are "in the rights" to boycott them for it. So how is boycotting Blizzard going to solve the problem of profit being the only motive for companies? Personally I think worse things are going on daily in video games companies, things that affect consumers in a direct way instead of just "They were grovelly to China and I don't like China." People should be boycotting companies like EA who have turned their video games into gambling for kids. Mobile game companies who live on profits basically stolen from their parents by kids. No-one's talking about boycotting companies for ingrained, serious and destructive issues like that that have an effect on millions of people. Instead we're angry because Blizzard did what all companies basically do, which is try and keep their business prospects alive in as many markets as possible. Admittedly they did it in a bad and stupid way. People are talking about it is as though this makes them the number one bad guy of the video game scene, which they aren't by a LONG LONG way. I think you are missing a couple of aspects to this story. Blizzard appeasing their Chinese overlords to stay in their good graces would be one thing, and honestly bad enough, but it's more that they went above and beyond to defend the China while having a reputation of a company that cares about freedom of speech. Their frikkin statue outside of their offices says as much. To top it off they sent an official message through the Chinese version of Twitter stating something to the effect of that they will "Continue to defend the Chinese people". That was the nail in the coffin for me. They didn't do this because they tried to stay apolitical, they did it because they're wholly, completely and unapologetically siding with China over Hong Kong. This, in my and many other's eyes, makes them worse than the likes of EA, who are "only" being greedy by performing unethical practices towards their own customers. Boycotting them won't solve the problem of money being the only motivator, we can't do anything about that, but since it clearly is their motivation, it will at least hopefully force them to steer in the right direction. If the latter is going to be effective remains to be seen, but unfortunately it's the only angle of attack available to us. Well I hope it works. However if it does, I feel like it is a wasted opportunity to say something bigger. Blizzard have overstepped the same mark that many other companies have recently (Apple, Nike, The Gap, Disney), so maybe this protest should broaden. If it did I would probably support it. I think rather than throwing our weight behind this Blizzard boycott, people might be better served spending their energy finding a way to support to HK protest movement directly. How though? I’d love such an avenue to exist I really don’t see how I can really support such things myself in any kind of effective manner. A broadening of boycotting companies who do such things, while letting them know why though yeah, would be a good move IMO. I’m rather torn on where the line should be though. Disney changing some elements of a film in the Chinese version, is that equivalent to censoring Westerners for political opinions? I don’t think it is, personally anyway. I don't know how lol. Maybe pressuring domestic companies is a good way to do it. Just a little correction, Disney changed the entire premise of Dr Strange to avoid annoying China. There's not even a mention of Tibet in the entire movie. In the comics one of the main characters is TIbetan and Dr Strange goes to Tibet to learn. This is akin to helping China erase Tibet from pop culture.
Just a minor detail :p But yeah thanks for the clarification.
I‘m still not in favour of that either, although I don’t think it’s quite as big a deal as censoring Western behaviour to avoid annoying China.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On October 11 2019 07:07 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 06:35 BigFan wrote:On October 11 2019 00:40 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 11 2019 00:32 Loisl wrote:On October 11 2019 00:21 Jockmcplop wrote:
Other than that, are you saying we are boycotting Blizzard for bad communication? I have said nothing about boycotting Blizzard. Could you please not put words in the mouths of others? Would really appreciate it... But I will now: The "bad communication" in this context is a actually a statement with political implications. I mean, what do you think? They just forgot to properly react or had an intern without a clue handle this situation? Of course not, nobody would be stupid enough to believe that. They know what their statements (or lack thereof) induce. So no, I do not say we should boycott Blizzard for bad communication. We should definitely boycott Blizzard for needlessly supporting a fascistic regime, though. Other people are boycotting blizzard, you are saying its for bad communication. I don't really understand where you're coming from to be honest. The guy broke a rule, information on what happened with the casters is pretty hard to come by, but if they also broke the same rule then that's why they were banned. It looks to me like you and the people with their false twitter/reddit outrage are the ones making this political. I don't blame you, China has been in the news alot recently. Unless you can prove to me that Blizzard did this to politically support China, not to enforce the same rule they always enforce in every tournament, if you can show me where the rule was broken and they didn't enforce it then I will agree 100% with what you are saying. Otherwise this is just conspiracy theory thinking. I'm surprised that no one bothered to give an answer to the casters' bit because that part felt odd to me as well. I can see why they would punish the player himself and even he expected something, but I didn't understand the casters' part until I read the following comment on reddit. The video also doesn't help their case and makes it seem obvious that they knew what they were getting themselves into when they ducked under the desk as he said it. Perhaps they thought it'll be overlooked or the punishment will be light, who knows? RichGirlThrowaway_ 30 points · 1 day ago Gold
From my understanding, they said "say the eight words and we'll close out" or something. That being a reference to the pro-Hong Kong slogan. Assuming that's true, they specifically told him to say it, so they're inarguably accomplices. Even if not, between him obviously wearing pro-Hong Kong symbolism + them clearly ducking their heads and smirking even before he said it, they knew damn fucking well he was going to say it, and they were perfectly willing to let him on air.
I believe all 3 should have been punished. Not because China's great (lmfao) but because politicising a video game tournament is fucked up. For one, it's against the rules of the tournament so they should all absolutely have been punished for breaking the rules, but for two, it's just poor form. A lot of people watch gaming events/streams/playthroughs/tournaments to escape the shitty real world. A little bit of escapism, a little bit of peace of mind for once. Bringing all that shit right back in is fucked, people don't need it. We all already know it anyway.
I don't support Blizzard though. While I think there should be a punishment for all three people that were punished, these were clearly VASTLY too harsh. It wasn't about enforcing rules, it was about sending a political message, no argument there. If it was about the rules, the most I'd see is maybe a prize reduction or a forced apology or even a short ban for the player? Huge ban + full prize withdrawal? That's insane. For the casters, I think just telling them not to fuck with that stuff again behind the scenes would be fine. Maybe if you wanted to go further a public apology? That wouldn't work in this case because pro-Hong Kong is snowballing so it'd be awkward. Maybe a little fine or something, even? Pushing it. Firing them for life and fucking up years of ambition is sick. Repugnant. Reference: https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/dfcvwq/taiwanese_caster_who_got_fired_by_blizzard_in/ One of the casters released a statement later where he explained why he let the player say it. He had been told that the post game intervju was an opportunity for the winner to express himself. In the same statement he condemned Blizzard, and vowed to never work for them or any of their games again. The other caster was a bit more heartbroken. He went on stream a day later bawling his eyes out because of all the work he had out in to get where he was, which he felt had been flushed down the toilet. Both of these can be found near the top on the Heartstone reddit. In fact that's where you can find most information about this story. I'm on my phone in bed atm, but if you want I can link it tomorrow when I get back on a computer.
And he thought that the player making a political statement wouldn't land him in any hot water considering the current HK situation? Even the player himself knew it and stated that he thought something will come of it.
The situation is saddening for sure, especially to the second caster, but what's done is done. I'm sure that a lot of other opportunities will open up for them considering the coverage this is getting.
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On October 11 2019 03:40 Gorgonoth wrote:
What’s even more effective in stamping out remaining thoughtful discussion is making incoherent responses to good points being raised and then exploding when you are asked to explain them and making personal attacks.
I just thought it was funny how Lolsi is clearly the one responsible for his lashing out and name calling , and you instead pick out the fact that Jock asked why he was so upset. No that’s not rage baiting at its worst sorry.
You do realize the guy put words in my mouth and made assumptions about my stances based solely on HIS feelings on the matter in every single reply to me? All that without addressing one single argument of mine? And garnished with personal attacks that have nothing to do with the matter?
But good thing he did it. I used bad language - not directed at anybody, but still, I shall do penance for this. Same goes for the vagueness of my language. Why dont I just use clear, definitive words for a situation where a lot of the circumstances are still in the dark? I am just a bad person. Sorry.
ROFL
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On October 11 2019 09:13 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 07:07 Excludos wrote:On October 11 2019 06:35 BigFan wrote:On October 11 2019 00:40 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 11 2019 00:32 Loisl wrote:On October 11 2019 00:21 Jockmcplop wrote:
Other than that, are you saying we are boycotting Blizzard for bad communication? I have said nothing about boycotting Blizzard. Could you please not put words in the mouths of others? Would really appreciate it... But I will now: The "bad communication" in this context is a actually a statement with political implications. I mean, what do you think? They just forgot to properly react or had an intern without a clue handle this situation? Of course not, nobody would be stupid enough to believe that. They know what their statements (or lack thereof) induce. So no, I do not say we should boycott Blizzard for bad communication. We should definitely boycott Blizzard for needlessly supporting a fascistic regime, though. Other people are boycotting blizzard, you are saying its for bad communication. I don't really understand where you're coming from to be honest. The guy broke a rule, information on what happened with the casters is pretty hard to come by, but if they also broke the same rule then that's why they were banned. It looks to me like you and the people with their false twitter/reddit outrage are the ones making this political. I don't blame you, China has been in the news alot recently. Unless you can prove to me that Blizzard did this to politically support China, not to enforce the same rule they always enforce in every tournament, if you can show me where the rule was broken and they didn't enforce it then I will agree 100% with what you are saying. Otherwise this is just conspiracy theory thinking. I'm surprised that no one bothered to give an answer to the casters' bit because that part felt odd to me as well. I can see why they would punish the player himself and even he expected something, but I didn't understand the casters' part until I read the following comment on reddit. The video also doesn't help their case and makes it seem obvious that they knew what they were getting themselves into when they ducked under the desk as he said it. Perhaps they thought it'll be overlooked or the punishment will be light, who knows? RichGirlThrowaway_ 30 points · 1 day ago Gold
From my understanding, they said "say the eight words and we'll close out" or something. That being a reference to the pro-Hong Kong slogan. Assuming that's true, they specifically told him to say it, so they're inarguably accomplices. Even if not, between him obviously wearing pro-Hong Kong symbolism + them clearly ducking their heads and smirking even before he said it, they knew damn fucking well he was going to say it, and they were perfectly willing to let him on air.
I believe all 3 should have been punished. Not because China's great (lmfao) but because politicising a video game tournament is fucked up. For one, it's against the rules of the tournament so they should all absolutely have been punished for breaking the rules, but for two, it's just poor form. A lot of people watch gaming events/streams/playthroughs/tournaments to escape the shitty real world. A little bit of escapism, a little bit of peace of mind for once. Bringing all that shit right back in is fucked, people don't need it. We all already know it anyway.
I don't support Blizzard though. While I think there should be a punishment for all three people that were punished, these were clearly VASTLY too harsh. It wasn't about enforcing rules, it was about sending a political message, no argument there. If it was about the rules, the most I'd see is maybe a prize reduction or a forced apology or even a short ban for the player? Huge ban + full prize withdrawal? That's insane. For the casters, I think just telling them not to fuck with that stuff again behind the scenes would be fine. Maybe if you wanted to go further a public apology? That wouldn't work in this case because pro-Hong Kong is snowballing so it'd be awkward. Maybe a little fine or something, even? Pushing it. Firing them for life and fucking up years of ambition is sick. Repugnant. Reference: https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/dfcvwq/taiwanese_caster_who_got_fired_by_blizzard_in/ One of the casters released a statement later where he explained why he let the player say it. He had been told that the post game intervju was an opportunity for the winner to express himself. In the same statement he condemned Blizzard, and vowed to never work for them or any of their games again. The other caster was a bit more heartbroken. He went on stream a day later bawling his eyes out because of all the work he had out in to get where he was, which he felt had been flushed down the toilet. Both of these can be found near the top on the Heartstone reddit. In fact that's where you can find most information about this story. I'm on my phone in bed atm, but if you want I can link it tomorrow when I get back on a computer. And he thought that the player making a political statement wouldn't land him in any hot water considering the current HK situation? Even the player himself knew it and stated that he thought something will come of it. The situation is saddening for sure, especially to the second caster, but what's done is done. I'm sure that a lot of other opportunities will open up for them considering the coverage this is getting.
Here's his full statement:
+ Show Spoiler +After thinking for a few days, here is my statement:
Today, I am a commentator,
The stage where the winner speaks is what he earned.
Let him talk is my job.
I did my best to complete my work according to the picture that Blizzard gave me.
The result is that it destroys your reputation and ends the cooperation.
Thank Taiwan Blizzard for the help and compensation in the process.
But for the entire "Blizzard" decision,
I can't accept it.
In the past four years, from gamer to player to commentator ,
I don’t mention much how much I invested.
In addition to the work already agreed at this stage
"I will not participate in any broadcast of Blizzard games in the future"
"I won't play any Blizzard games anymore in the future."
You have your business considerations, I have my principles,
even if the broadcast accounts for most of my income.
I don't know where to go after four years of hard work.
But I really can't agree with you.
Finally, I want to send a word of Blizzard.
#EveryVoiceMatters
Whether he expected the punishment or not (I certainly wouldn't have. It's way overboard), he sure isn't apologetic about it. He's also Taiwanese, so he probably have some not-unfounded feelings about the topic himself.
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The tournament was in Taiwan was it not? A country which currently operates as a democracy which is as democratic as Belgium and Italy if Democracy Index is to be beleived. What we have here is Blizzard deciding to make a clear statement themselves in China's favour for a foreign tournament in a democratic country.
If the tournament was in USA instead of Taiwan, to refuse to give $10 000 in tournament winnings, to ban for a year, which is a lifetime in esports and to fire 2 casters? Would people think Blizzards action was appropriate?
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Northern Ireland24233 Posts
On October 11 2019 19:02 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
The tournament was in Taiwan was it not? A country which currently operates as a democracy which is as democratic as Belgium and Italy if Democracy Index is to be beleived. What we have here is Blizzard deciding to make a clear statement themselves in China's favour for a foreign tournament in a democratic country.
If the tournament was in USA instead of Taiwan, to refuse to give $10 000 in tournament winnings, to ban for a year, which is a lifetime in esports and to fire 2 casters? Would people think Blizzards action was appropriate?
I’m more annoyed specifically at the removal of the prize money and the caster ban, it is within the rules and Blizzard’s prerogative to do so. Where it feels like it strays into punitive territory over enforcing rules about political statements, which aren’t specifically mentioned, more under the umbrella of ‘bringing x into disrepute’.
I’m not sure it matters overly where the tournament took place, but again we don’t have other comparable examples or know specifically why certain actions were taking place.
Perhaps where the broadcast physically happened matters, alternatively maybe it doesn’t as the vast majority of viewers aren’t physically in the venues but streaming from all over the place.
Difficult to say, I think/hope we’ll find out more in the future, I can’t see Blizzcon having zero people making some kind of stand on this issue, even if it’s relatively low-level.
It’s a tough one, the guy was expecting censure for his actions and I probably would have been OK with it if it’d been done in a certain way, some kind of tournament ban and a statement saying ‘we appreciate free speech but we can’t have our events be political protests as we have many fans with different views’ or something. Footballers get booked for taking shirts off in celebration, they know this but occasionally do this anyway when they’re lost in the moment and emotional and I like to see the passion. If x footballer ended up getting banned for 6 months or something that’d be ridiculous.
I’m not sure something more proportionate would have placated the flood of Reddit outrage.
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Footballers don't get essentially a lifetime ban (a year in esports is basically lifetime) and not get paid for their season's earning for taking their shirts off.
Blizzard could had simply said "no politics" and ban the guys for a month, sending out a clear message of "no politics". Or when similar has occured in the past, just ignored it.
Instead Blizzard went full crackdown and "defending China's honour", deleted the videos, sending a clear message that they are simply following China's censoring rules.
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Northern Ireland24233 Posts
On October 11 2019 19:35 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Footballers don't get essentially a lifetime ban (a year in esports is basically lifetime) and not get paid for their season's earning for taking their shirts off.
Blizzard could had simply said "no politics" and ban the guys for a month, sending out a clear message of "no politics". Or when similar has occured in the past, just ignored it.
Instead Blizzard went full crackdown and "defending China's honour", deleted the videos, sending a clear message that they are simply following China's censoring rules.
That is what I already said, albeit in a more rambling and unclear sense.
Even aside from currently not being a particularly high paying gig, and also Blizzard running tournaments instead of third party organisations, eSports doesn’t pay well for most people outside of the very, very top and being out of action for a year it’s extremely difficult to get back.
So it’s very difficult to take any kind of stance if all these factors are taken into account. Blizzard directly runs so much of the eSport games its made, rather than just being the developer who made them.
Nobody in SC2 has yet got back to the top post-military service for example.
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On October 11 2019 03:40 Gorgonoth wrote:
What’s even more effective in stamping out remaining thoughtful discussion is making incoherent responses to good points being raised and then exploding when you are asked to explain them and making personal attacks.
I just thought it was funny how Lolsi is clearly the one responsible for his lashing out and name calling , and you instead pick out the fact that Jock asked why he was so upset. No that’s not rage baiting at its worst sorry.
I went back and reread and I think I was in the wrong, I should've taken a better look at the context
Sorry Joc, my B
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https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/08/11/article-1205901-06080B2D000005DC-976_468x450.jpg
This was a very controversial image in its day in 1936. German Olympic Athlete throwing his hand up in the Nazi Salute in protest during the Star Spangled Banner when a black American man took gold.
Was it in poor taste? Certainly. Did it offend a large group of people. Yes and no. Depends on your geography during that era. Some praised him, others were horrified. Were the Tournament Olympic Organizers upset about it? I’m sure they were, it WAS in POOR taste and I’m sure not very sportsman like and I’m sure there were rules against it.
But Was the Athlete punished? No. He was allowed to say his piece, or show his dissatisfaction in a sense, without losing his medal or being thrown out of the Olympics.
So despite what was going on in the world at that time. Aryan Supremacy and all that. People still had the FREEDOM of speech to express, one way or the other, without fear of punishment. Does this mean people want to see a guy yelling something radical every single game or sports event or competition? I’m sure many people don’t want to but that does not give anyone the right the remove that individuals right to SAYING something. Even if you or I do or do not agree with it.
What Activision Blizzard and China are doing is removing ANY and ALL FREEDOM of speech and going so far as to punish those that try to express that freedom. That is where I am opposed and encourage others to not let this stand.
What this is about, in my mind, is not what is happening in Hong Kong. Yes, it is in the news and many Westerners support the protesters but what else can we do? It’s terrible what is happening. It shouldn’t be happening. Much like what happened in Germany before World War 2.
But what has really gotten people riled up in the West and what I feel this is TRUELY about is Blitz’s FREEDOM to voice his dissatisfaction and being punished for it and this is where the majority of the world is not going to stand idly by and let that happen. We shouldn’t let it happen and God have mercy on us for whenever the day comes people are willing to give up that Freedom without a fight. This is something that many of us actually can make a difference by deleting our accounts, stop buying Activision Blizzard products and even going as far as to opposed products from China.
To recap. This is about the suppression of people being able to have a voice and being heard. Even if it isn’t a message some people want to hear, people should still have the freedom to say it without consequences. Those that seek to eliminate that freedom should be the ones punished.
Activision Blizzard and China... you deserve all the hate being thrown your way right now.
Edit: And now Riot Games. Fuck you too Riot. https://kotaku.com/riot-forbids-league-of-legends-players-and-commentators-1838978263
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https://weibointl.api.weibo.cn/share/96702636.html?weibo_id=4424535195488693
About why ban the casters...?
"Speak up those eight words，hurry up"（fight XXXXXhk，you know）
“After you say those eight words, we'll end and not to discuss any more.”
“Now let's hide our heads.haha”
Casters just induces the player to make political comments.In fact, the Chinese who are concerned about it just feel that the Hong Kong player has been used by casters.Of course, we can't accept it either.
I do not know if more western people may think it hurting freedom of speech？
I don't mind being a porter if someone wants to know something about the Chinese Internet.
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ah... another disinformation campaign
of course... the taiwanese were just using blitzchung.
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On October 12 2019 06:26 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/08/11/article-1205901-06080B2D000005DC-976_468x450.jpgThis was a very controversial image in its day in 1936. German Olympic Athlete throwing his hand up in the Nazi Salute in protest during the Star Spangled Banner when a black American man took gold. Was it in poor taste? Certainly. Did it offend a large group of people. Yes and no. Depends on your geography during that era. Some praised him, others were horrified. Were the Tournament Olympic Organizers upset about it? I’m sure they were, it WAS in POOR taste and I’m sure not very sportsman like and I’m sure there were rules against it. But Was the Athlete punished? No. He was allowed to say his piece, or show his dissatisfaction in a sense, without losing his medal or being thrown out of the Olympics. So despite what was going on in the world at that time. Aryan Supremacy and all that. People still had the FREEDOM of speech to express, one way or the other, without fear of punishment. Does this mean people want to see a guy yelling something radical every single game or sports event or competition? I’m sure many people don’t want to but that does not give anyone the right the remove that individuals right to SAYING something. Even if you or I do or do not agree with it. What Activision Blizzard and China are doing is removing ANY and ALL FREEDOM of speech and going so far as to punish those that try to express that freedom. That is where I am opposed and encourage others to not let this stand. What this is about, in my mind, is not what is happening in Hong Kong. Yes, it is in the news and many Westerners support the protesters but what else can we do? It’s terrible what is happening. It shouldn’t be happening. Much like what happened in Germany before World War 2. But what has really gotten people riled up in the West and what I feel this is TRUELY about is Blitz’s FREEDOM to voice his dissatisfaction and being punished for it and this is where the majority of the world is not going to stand idly by and let that happen. We shouldn’t let it happen and God have mercy on us for whenever the day comes people are willing to give up that Freedom without a fight. This is something that many of us actually can make a difference by deleting our accounts, stop buying Activision Blizzard products and even going as far as to opposed products from China. To recap. This is about the suppression of people being able to have a voice and being heard. Even if it isn’t a message some people want to hear, people should still have the freedom to say it without consequences. Those that seek to eliminate that freedom should be the ones punished. Activision Blizzard and China... you deserve all the hate being thrown your way right now. Edit: And now Riot Games. Fuck you too Riot. https://kotaku.com/riot-forbids-league-of-legends-players-and-commentators-1838978263
I don't think it's appropriate to express one's political views in the contest. This will make entertainment products politicized. I don't think any Western friends would like to see more political slogans in the contest. This will make entertainment products become political propaganda tools.It's like the Catalan flag seen on the NBA.
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Political views are already in sports. They’ve been in sports since at least the last century.
See NFL.
Go back to your Chinese forums you fucking robot. I’m so sick of reading the garbage you spew. If you actually had your own freedom to speak your mind and not a government approved script you keep copy pasting everywhere I would actually respect you.
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On October 13 2019 01:06 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
Political views are already in sports. They’ve been in sports since at least the last century.
See NFL.
Go back to your Chinese forums you fucking robot. I’m so sick of reading the garbage you spew. If you actually had your own freedom to speak your mind and not a government approved script you keep copy pasting everywhere I would actually respect you.
I have the right to express my own views in this forum and put away your double standard set.
You can't speak ill for me because you disagree.
I'm not going to change your mind either, you fuck democratic robot.
You don't want me to talk like CPC you hate.
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On October 12 2019 15:58 aSpeaker wrote:
I don't think it's appropriate to express one's political views in the contest. This will make entertainment products politicized. I don't think any Western friends would like to see more political slogans in the contest. This will make entertainment products become political propaganda tools.It's like the Catalan flag seen on the NBA.
I disagree completely. I do not see a problem with politics being a normal topic to talk about, even or especially in an entertainment context. I think it is much more divisive if people can not talk about their views and discuss them.
Also, if it is completely normal for everyone involved to voice their political opinions in that context, the potential for abuse as a propaganda tool is MUCH MUCH lower, since a discussion is possible.
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On October 13 2019 17:27 Loisl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2019 15:58 aSpeaker wrote:
I don't think it's appropriate to express one's political views in the contest. This will make entertainment products politicized. I don't think any Western friends would like to see more political slogans in the contest. This will make entertainment products become political propaganda tools.It's like the Catalan flag seen on the NBA.
I disagree completely. I do not see a problem with politics being a normal topic to talk about, even or especially in an entertainment context. I think it is much more divisive if people can not talk about their views and discuss them. Also, if it is completely normal for everyone involved to voice their political opinions in that context, the potential for abuse as a propaganda tool is MUCH MUCH lower, since a discussion is possible.
But I just want to relax and watch a game, without politics, race and religion. If I want to discuss these things, why not go to the social platform? Is there pan-politicization enough ? Perhaps the idea is to start the improvement of differences, but will people do this? I can choose not to watch this program, and the final difference is still It is there. We can discuss this in the forum as much as we do now.
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On October 13 2019 18:16 aSpeaker wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2019 17:27 Loisl wrote:On October 12 2019 15:58 aSpeaker wrote:
I don't think it's appropriate to express one's political views in the contest. This will make entertainment products politicized. I don't think any Western friends would like to see more political slogans in the contest. This will make entertainment products become political propaganda tools.It's like the Catalan flag seen on the NBA.
I disagree completely. I do not see a problem with politics being a normal topic to talk about, even or especially in an entertainment context. I think it is much more divisive if people can not talk about their views and discuss them. Also, if it is completely normal for everyone involved to voice their political opinions in that context, the potential for abuse as a propaganda tool is MUCH MUCH lower, since a discussion is possible. But I just want to relax and watch a game, without politics, race and religion. If I want to discuss these things, why not go to the social platform? Is there pan-politicization enough ? Perhaps the idea is to start the improvement of differences, but will people do this? I can choose not to watch this program, and the final difference is still It is there. We can discuss this in the forum as much as we do now.
What China is doing right on to its ethnic groups and Hongkong is not politics, its not some sort of a dicussion topic. The chinese government needs to be stopped before another terrible mistake like Nazi germany is commited, its possibly already happening, google Uyghur camps, organ harvesting etc.
Sure we can close our eyes and enjoy our temporary comfortable lives, or we can stand up to evil when we see it. Games, sports are nothing in comparison.
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On October 13 2019 18:16 aSpeaker wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2019 17:27 Loisl wrote:On October 12 2019 15:58 aSpeaker wrote:
I don't think it's appropriate to express one's political views in the contest. This will make entertainment products politicized. I don't think any Western friends would like to see more political slogans in the contest. This will make entertainment products become political propaganda tools.It's like the Catalan flag seen on the NBA.
I disagree completely. I do not see a problem with politics being a normal topic to talk about, even or especially in an entertainment context. I think it is much more divisive if people can not talk about their views and discuss them. Also, if it is completely normal for everyone involved to voice their political opinions in that context, the potential for abuse as a propaganda tool is MUCH MUCH lower, since a discussion is possible. But I just want to relax and watch a game, without politics, race and religion. If I want to discuss these things, why not go to the social platform? Is there pan-politicization enough ? Perhaps the idea is to start the improvement of differences, but will people do this? I can choose not to watch this program, and the final difference is still It is there. We can discuss this in the forum as much as we do now.
I really don't think games are effected by the interviews that much. Just don't watch an interview if you don't want to hear what someone has to say.
eidt: And by the same token don't have an interview if people aren't allowed to say anything.
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I am happy to join the fuck you Blizzard train. It's well earned and something has to change.
I will not uninstall SC and SC2 but I won't give Blizzard money for a long time .
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On October 15 2019 21:24 baiesradu wrote:
I am happy to join the fuck you Blizzard train. It's well earned and something has to change.
I will not uninstall SC and SC2 but I won't give Blizzard money for a long time .
I don't understand people wanting to stop playing the games because of this.
Brood war in particular has existed without but a second glance from our blue overlords. They haven't given a shit about BW in years. Suddenly with remastered we should all once more be beholden to them for a half assed skin job? And now that they fucked up we're on the hook if we keep playing the same game that we've played for years? No. WE OWN BROOD WAR. It is OURS.
Just because we got forced to pay for Remastered just so we could interact with the lost sheep that tried to give BW a try doesn't mean we owe an ounce of gratitude. And honestly, the same goes for WoW Classic and the private servers that existed before.
There is a reason why communities need to be able to tell the devs to fuck off.
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On October 15 2019 21:59 Greth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2019 21:24 baiesradu wrote:
I am happy to join the fuck you Blizzard train. It's well earned and something has to change.
I will not uninstall SC and SC2 but I won't give Blizzard money for a long time . I don't understand people wanting to stop playing the games because of this. Brood war in particular has existed without but a second glance from our blue overlords. They haven't given a shit about BW in years. Suddenly with remastered we should all once more be beholden to them for a half assed skin job? And now that they fucked up we're on the hook if we keep playing the same game that we've played for years? No. WE OWN BROOD WAR. It is OURS. Just because we got forced to pay for Remastered just so we could interact with the lost sheep that tried to give BW a try doesn't mean we owe an ounce of gratitude. And honestly, the same goes for WoW Classic and the private servers that existed before. There is a reason why communities need to be able to tell the devs to fuck off.
The only issue is that every time you boot up the Battle.net launcher, Blizzard receives a tick and notes you down as a recurring player, which (indirectly and a bit convoluted) increases their stock value. So even if you don't pay them a dime, you help them out by playing their games.
I dunno about Broodwar as I haven't played it in years. Didn't that move on to battle.net launcher as well? Or does it still run on the old system? If it's the latter, then I see no reason for you not to do play it.
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Netherlands19129 Posts
On October 12 2019 15:58 aSpeaker wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2019 06:26 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/08/11/article-1205901-06080B2D000005DC-976_468x450.jpgThis was a very controversial image in its day in 1936. German Olympic Athlete throwing his hand up in the Nazi Salute in protest during the Star Spangled Banner when a black American man took gold. Was it in poor taste? Certainly. Did it offend a large group of people. Yes and no. Depends on your geography during that era. Some praised him, others were horrified. Were the Tournament Olympic Organizers upset about it? I’m sure they were, it WAS in POOR taste and I’m sure not very sportsman like and I’m sure there were rules against it. But Was the Athlete punished? No. He was allowed to say his piece, or show his dissatisfaction in a sense, without losing his medal or being thrown out of the Olympics. So despite what was going on in the world at that time. Aryan Supremacy and all that. People still had the FREEDOM of speech to express, one way or the other, without fear of punishment. Does this mean people want to see a guy yelling something radical every single game or sports event or competition? I’m sure many people don’t want to but that does not give anyone the right the remove that individuals right to SAYING something. Even if you or I do or do not agree with it. What Activision Blizzard and China are doing is removing ANY and ALL FREEDOM of speech and going so far as to punish those that try to express that freedom. That is where I am opposed and encourage others to not let this stand. What this is about, in my mind, is not what is happening in Hong Kong. Yes, it is in the news and many Westerners support the protesters but what else can we do? It’s terrible what is happening. It shouldn’t be happening. Much like what happened in Germany before World War 2. But what has really gotten people riled up in the West and what I feel this is TRUELY about is Blitz’s FREEDOM to voice his dissatisfaction and being punished for it and this is where the majority of the world is not going to stand idly by and let that happen. We shouldn’t let it happen and God have mercy on us for whenever the day comes people are willing to give up that Freedom without a fight. This is something that many of us actually can make a difference by deleting our accounts, stop buying Activision Blizzard products and even going as far as to opposed products from China. To recap. This is about the suppression of people being able to have a voice and being heard. Even if it isn’t a message some people want to hear, people should still have the freedom to say it without consequences. Those that seek to eliminate that freedom should be the ones punished. Activision Blizzard and China... you deserve all the hate being thrown your way right now. Edit: And now Riot Games. Fuck you too Riot. https://kotaku.com/riot-forbids-league-of-legends-players-and-commentators-1838978263 I don't think it's appropriate to express one's political views in the contest. This will make entertainment products politicized. I don't think any Western friends would like to see more political slogans in the contest. This will make entertainment products become political propaganda tools.It's like the Catalan flag seen on the NBA.
I couldn't agree more. Seeing how the political left in the US and EU is politicising the culture to such a high degree already, almost up to the point that it's becoming hard to separate from politics, I actually support the concept here. The way Blizzard went about this and the manner in which they communicated it however reeks of incompetence. If the above message to separate the culture from politics, with which I wholeheartedly agree, is the intent they sure as hell fucked it up something fierce.
In short, I kinda do understand part of the frustration on both sides here seeing as how blizz went about it's business.
How Psionic is expressing his discontent here in his blog and in the general forum topic however just illustrates to me how rabid SJW's are and how they are the largest threat to society we face at the moment. This whole cancel culture and they way they are politicising culture in general while "depersonising" anyone who doesn't agree with their, in my opinion radical, beliefs and positions isn't treated as a person and with any respect anymore.
We all still have to live with eachother and I think this puts an axe to our common society tree. We used to disagree on politics and go watch a movie together, but this is becoming less and less possible due to the lefts ostracising.
TLDR: Keep politics out of my entertainment, why give a shit what a private company does that doesn't incite violence or liables anyone and we should all play nice and treat eachother with respect so we can at least have a civil discussion when we, inevitably, disagree with eachother.
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On October 20 2019 01:10 Nyovne wrote:
How Psionic is expressing his discontent here in his blog and in the general forum topic however just illustrates to me how rabid SJW's are and how they are the largest threat to society we face at the moment. This whole cancel culture and they way they are politicising culture in general while "depersonising" anyone who doesn't agree with their, in my opinion radical, beliefs and positions isn't treated as a person and with any respect anymore.
Lolwut
Funnier still is that I agree with large parts of what you're saying. But let's not exaggerate here. I also don't even know how or think it is "SJW" to take a stand against Blizzard or China in this issue.
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On October 20 2019 01:10 Nyovne wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2019 15:58 aSpeaker wrote:On October 12 2019 06:26 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/08/11/article-1205901-06080B2D000005DC-976_468x450.jpgThis was a very controversial image in its day in 1936. German Olympic Athlete throwing his hand up in the Nazi Salute in protest during the Star Spangled Banner when a black American man took gold. Was it in poor taste? Certainly. Did it offend a large group of people. Yes and no. Depends on your geography during that era. Some praised him, others were horrified. Were the Tournament Olympic Organizers upset about it? I’m sure they were, it WAS in POOR taste and I’m sure not very sportsman like and I’m sure there were rules against it. But Was the Athlete punished? No. He was allowed to say his piece, or show his dissatisfaction in a sense, without losing his medal or being thrown out of the Olympics. So despite what was going on in the world at that time. Aryan Supremacy and all that. People still had the FREEDOM of speech to express, one way or the other, without fear of punishment. Does this mean people want to see a guy yelling something radical every single game or sports event or competition? I’m sure many people don’t want to but that does not give anyone the right the remove that individuals right to SAYING something. Even if you or I do or do not agree with it. What Activision Blizzard and China are doing is removing ANY and ALL FREEDOM of speech and going so far as to punish those that try to express that freedom. That is where I am opposed and encourage others to not let this stand. What this is about, in my mind, is not what is happening in Hong Kong. Yes, it is in the news and many Westerners support the protesters but what else can we do? It’s terrible what is happening. It shouldn’t be happening. Much like what happened in Germany before World War 2. But what has really gotten people riled up in the West and what I feel this is TRUELY about is Blitz’s FREEDOM to voice his dissatisfaction and being punished for it and this is where the majority of the world is not going to stand idly by and let that happen. We shouldn’t let it happen and God have mercy on us for whenever the day comes people are willing to give up that Freedom without a fight. This is something that many of us actually can make a difference by deleting our accounts, stop buying Activision Blizzard products and even going as far as to opposed products from China. To recap. This is about the suppression of people being able to have a voice and being heard. Even if it isn’t a message some people want to hear, people should still have the freedom to say it without consequences. Those that seek to eliminate that freedom should be the ones punished. Activision Blizzard and China... you deserve all the hate being thrown your way right now. Edit: And now Riot Games. Fuck you too Riot. https://kotaku.com/riot-forbids-league-of-legends-players-and-commentators-1838978263 I don't think it's appropriate to express one's political views in the contest. This will make entertainment products politicized. I don't think any Western friends would like to see more political slogans in the contest. This will make entertainment products become political propaganda tools.It's like the Catalan flag seen on the NBA. TLDR: Keep politics out of my entertainment,
yes lets all cater to your needs because you're the victim here
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I already gave up on blizzard years ago. As soon as they hired C&C idiot for sc2 and XBOX live people for the GUI the game has been shit and still isnt even close to being balance. Zerg is so obviously OP and david Kim is working on D4.
HOTS has been just forgotten about and neglected to where everyone just bailed.
Hearthstone is a trash game that just releases luck based shit over and over and is a grind or money sink to stay competitive.
D3 has been trash since like a year after it came out. No one cares
D-I was booed out of existence, they barely even mentioned it at blizzcon.
ACTIVISION MERGER. Nuff said
Remastered was pretty cool, but im still kinda pissed about the fact that I cant even do /time on bnet and the search games function needs more tick boxes. Plus its fucking BW, how can you even fuck that up, its already great so just add some new shine and a few new features and its just polishing gold. Plus unless you go korean server to ladder or play fastest shit, you get like average 500 users on bnet. Which is ded gaem.
Reforged is cool looking, but i dont really care all that much about WC3 even though I played the shit out of it.
D4 looks like it is cool but whatever, its ARPG that shit is tired and an endgame grind for no purpose. Who really cares about that anymore? Ive played like 4-5 ARPGs to end game at this point, why would I want to play another one. If they actually have the PvP battleground shit like they promised in D3, then maybe I will care.
Who cares about WoW at all?
Overwatch is just team based FPS suckfest. No interest at all. Same for DLC, er I mean OW2.
What else, everything is mediocre at best at this point.
Then you got them being all PC politcal this shit, fuck em. Fuck gaming, fuck corporations, fuck govts, fuck it. Have a beer, play some pool, lift some weights, and learn to 360 flip before you get too old.
Afterthought, You know what would actually be pretty nifty. If they totally remasted WC2 and balanced a bunch of shit, as well as changed some of the UI and stuff to be more like SC:BW, like hotkeys and queue, and more unit selection, etc. I'd fuck with that. Maybe toss in some new units for shits and gigs.
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Northern Ireland24233 Posts
Who cares about WoW? Quite a lot of people given how much of a cash cow it is for Blizzard.
Plenty of those games don’t interest me either, not my bag but they’re hardly trash games by most reasonable metrics.
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Whether their games are good is kinda besides the point here guys. We're not bashing Blizzard for making bad games (Tho I happen to think they're quite good). We're bashing them for inadvertently supporting China and censorship, doubling down on their bad decisions, making laughably bad apologies, and then advertently siding with China.
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Northern Ireland24233 Posts
On November 09 2019 02:27 Excludos wrote:
Whether their games are good is kinda besides the point here guys. We're not bashing Blizzard for making bad games (Tho I happen to think they're quite good). We're bashing them for inadvertently supporting China and censorship, doubling down on their bad decisions, making laughably bad apologies, and then advertently siding with China.
Was responding to post above specifically, probably shoulda used the quote function lol
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It's funny that mod dude said "keep politics out of my entertainment". It's not enough to put your own blinders on, you gotta ask others to do the same. Unbelievable.
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EPT
