• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:31
CEST 18:31
KST 01:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.162Rollback Netcode in Brood War995.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202624Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? SCII needs to put more weight on strategy and tact Server Blocker 5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 2026 ESL Pro Tour for SC2 discontinued
Tourneys
$3,500 WardiTV Not-Summer Championship Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts
Brood War
General
Bot on ladder BW General Discussion Sagi.gg Launcher Released Rollback Netcode in Brood War ASL22 General Discussion
Tourneys
ASL 22 Finals [Women's StarCraft] MonstarZ vs Dreams 2026-10-15 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Semifinal B
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Link Between Gaming and …
TrAiDoS
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8995 users

False Advertising - How is this legal? - Page 2

Blogs > SixStrings
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
November 16 2014 14:03 GMT
#21
"Doctor" is a customary title, not a legal one. If it was "Dre, M.D", then there's a potential issue of misrepresentation.

Given that Jeremy Clarkson is a "Doctor" of Engineering (twice!), I don't think there's much argument for European law on the topic.

Oh, but the headphones do suck, especially for the price. Few know what good headphones actually sound like.
tar
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany991 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-16 15:15:59
November 16 2014 15:09 GMT
#22
On November 16 2014 23:03 Taf the Ghost wrote:
"Doctor" is a customary title, not a legal one. If it was "Dre, M.D", then there's a potential issue of misrepresentation.

Given that Jeremy Clarkson is a "Doctor" of Engineering (twice!), I don't think there's much argument for European law on the topic.

Oh, but the headphones do suck, especially for the price. Few know what good headphones actually sound like.


Don't know about the situation in the U.S. but in Europe or rather Germany, this is not the case.
"Doctor" is an official academic title. Using it without the appropriate doctorate degree is a criminal offence.
whoever I pick for my anti team turns gosu
hymn
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Bulgaria832 Posts
November 16 2014 17:20 GMT
#23
On November 17 2014 00:09 tar wrote:
in Europe or rather Germany, this is not the case.
"Doctor" is an official academic title. Using it without the appropriate doctorate degree is a criminal offence.

I am a veterinarian hence a doctor in Bulgaria. If I say I am a doctor in Germany, is it a criminal offense? Will I go to jail? I mean, my diploma might not be valid in the whole EU (or it might be, I don't know and I don't care) and thus I would not technically be a doctor there. Or if one is a doctor somewhere in the world, he is free to say so in Deutschland?
azk he is the north american player but the titan he is the french stars
tar
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany991 Posts
November 16 2014 17:52 GMT
#24
On November 17 2014 02:20 hymn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2014 00:09 tar wrote:
in Europe or rather Germany, this is not the case.
"Doctor" is an official academic title. Using it without the appropriate doctorate degree is a criminal offence.

I am a veterinarian hence a doctor in Bulgaria. If I say I am a doctor in Germany, is it a criminal offense? Will I go to jail? I mean, my diploma might not be valid in the whole EU (or it might be, I don't know and I don't care) and thus I would not technically be a doctor there. Or if one is a doctor somewhere in the world, he is free to say so in Deutschland?

The short answer: If you have any EU university doctorate degree you are allowed to call yourself Doctor (Dr.) in Germany. If you have a degree but no doctorate you are not allowed to do so and can be fined or punished with up to 1 year in prison.
whoever I pick for my anti team turns gosu
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-16 18:28:13
November 16 2014 18:25 GMT
#25
Sound engineers aren't doctors anyways.

A lot of the tech savvy groups go on reddit which is very vocally against beats. Most of us know they're shitty headphones.

Inferiority of products with high markups is kind of a thing here, and I assume it's the same in Europe tbh. No company is perfectly efficient and once a company gains a monopoly or a sizeable chunk of the market share they don't have the need to change and become inefficient. Then there are companies that just make ridiculous profit ratios, which is probably what happened to beats.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
MoonfireSpam
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1153 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-16 19:12:07
November 16 2014 19:11 GMT
#26
Will give credit for genius trollage, however also possible poster is young enough to legit now know who Dr. Dre is, and that this isn't troll.

#thatmomentyourealisestuffyougrewupwithisnowold
Kazahk
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States385 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-16 19:38:10
November 16 2014 19:36 GMT
#27
You don't know who Dr. Dre is? lol that your own damn fault. And not just a rapper, more like the pimp of all rappers. (bought everyone out to work for his label.)
Rngesus blessed me with a tooth half, then shunned me with a spinach roll.
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
November 16 2014 19:46 GMT
#28
On November 16 2014 08:54 SixStrings wrote:
Surely his doctor title must be relevant to the product, right?
I figured he would be some renowned sound engineer whose degree comes from the realm of physics, so I looked him up.

Many of you, especially Americans, probably know this already, but I was really surprised to find out that he is in fact just a rapper.

Can anyone give me even an approximate legal explanation as to how this isn't fraud or at the very least false advertising? How can you use an academic title you don't have to push your product?


All I can say is: lol.

I would also add that, of all the misleading ads, you pick Dre Beats as the staple of false advertising? I'm not even mad, yo. This is one of the funniest things I've ever read. Just seeing a confused European seeing the title of 'doctor', doing some research and then demanding an explanation.

+ Show Spoiler [memes] +
I found this very humorous, so I did making joke, which I would like to now share for your viewing pleasure. Please enjoy:


[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
November 16 2014 20:34 GMT
#29
On November 17 2014 02:52 tar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2014 02:20 hymn wrote:
On November 17 2014 00:09 tar wrote:
in Europe or rather Germany, this is not the case.
"Doctor" is an official academic title. Using it without the appropriate doctorate degree is a criminal offence.

I am a veterinarian hence a doctor in Bulgaria. If I say I am a doctor in Germany, is it a criminal offense? Will I go to jail? I mean, my diploma might not be valid in the whole EU (or it might be, I don't know and I don't care) and thus I would not technically be a doctor there. Or if one is a doctor somewhere in the world, he is free to say so in Deutschland?

The short answer: If you have any EU university doctorate degree you are allowed to call yourself Doctor (Dr.) in Germany. If you have a degree but no doctorate you are not allowed to do so and can be fined or punished with up to 1 year in prison.


That's crazysauce. Like, in general, in conversation, or only if legitimately pretending to be a doctor? And what if you have a non-EU doctorate? In Iran, you can get a doctorate for memorizing the Koran and taking no classes. Do they count? What about honorary doctorates, like Stephen Colbert's DFA?

In the US, as I understand, it's not kosher to misrepresent some particular degree (MD, PhD, what have you) though I doubt you'd get prison time unless you were doing so in some fraudulent capacity.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
November 16 2014 20:55 GMT
#30
I can understand the OP's point but why would a doctor make headphones in the first place?

On November 17 2014 04:46 ninazerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2014 08:54 SixStrings wrote:
Surely his doctor title must be relevant to the product, right?
I figured he would be some renowned sound engineer whose degree comes from the realm of physics, so I looked him up.

Many of you, especially Americans, probably know this already, but I was really surprised to find out that he is in fact just a rapper.

Can anyone give me even an approximate legal explanation as to how this isn't fraud or at the very least false advertising? How can you use an academic title you don't have to push your product?


All I can say is: lol.

I would also add that, of all the misleading ads, you pick Dre Beats as the staple of false advertising? I'm not even mad, yo. This is one of the funniest things I've ever read. Just seeing a confused European seeing the title of 'doctor', doing some research and then demanding an explanation.

+ Show Spoiler [memes] +
I found this very humorous, so I did making joke, which I would like to now share for your viewing pleasure. Please enjoy:


[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]


LOL all those memes XD
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
GeckoXp
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
Germany2016 Posts
November 16 2014 21:35 GMT
#31
On November 17 2014 05:34 Yoav wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2014 02:52 tar wrote:
On November 17 2014 02:20 hymn wrote:
On November 17 2014 00:09 tar wrote:
in Europe or rather Germany, this is not the case.
"Doctor" is an official academic title. Using it without the appropriate doctorate degree is a criminal offence.

I am a veterinarian hence a doctor in Bulgaria. If I say I am a doctor in Germany, is it a criminal offense? Will I go to jail? I mean, my diploma might not be valid in the whole EU (or it might be, I don't know and I don't care) and thus I would not technically be a doctor there. Or if one is a doctor somewhere in the world, he is free to say so in Deutschland?

The short answer: If you have any EU university doctorate degree you are allowed to call yourself Doctor (Dr.) in Germany. If you have a degree but no doctorate you are not allowed to do so and can be fined or punished with up to 1 year in prison.


That's crazysauce. Like, in general, in conversation, or only if legitimately pretending to be a doctor? And what if you have a non-EU doctorate? In Iran, you can get a doctorate for memorizing the Koran and taking no classes. Do they count? What about honorary doctorates, like Stephen Colbert's DFA?

In the US, as I understand, it's not kosher to misrepresent some particular degree (MD, PhD, what have you) though I doubt you'd get prison time unless you were doing so in some fraudulent capacity.


It depends a lot on the context. If you print Dr. Something on some ID Card you hand out to friends as part of a joke, or use it as stagename to perform any kind of "art" you're probably fine. It gets problematic if you start to advertise (like the OP misunderstood) some sort of service, for which the Dr. Name could be mistaken. E.g. advertising a miraculous treatment for cancer, when all you do is some hokum, or advertising your architecture skills, when you're only some random construction worker. I really never heard of a case in which someone would've been served a harsh sentence if it wasn't related to clear fraudulent/scam-ish behaviour.
tar
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany991 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-16 22:28:05
November 16 2014 22:12 GMT
#32
On November 17 2014 06:35 GeckoXp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2014 05:34 Yoav wrote:
On November 17 2014 02:52 tar wrote:
On November 17 2014 02:20 hymn wrote:
On November 17 2014 00:09 tar wrote:
in Europe or rather Germany, this is not the case.
"Doctor" is an official academic title. Using it without the appropriate doctorate degree is a criminal offence.

I am a veterinarian hence a doctor in Bulgaria. If I say I am a doctor in Germany, is it a criminal offense? Will I go to jail? I mean, my diploma might not be valid in the whole EU (or it might be, I don't know and I don't care) and thus I would not technically be a doctor there. Or if one is a doctor somewhere in the world, he is free to say so in Deutschland?

The short answer: If you have any EU university doctorate degree you are allowed to call yourself Doctor (Dr.) in Germany. If you have a degree but no doctorate you are not allowed to do so and can be fined or punished with up to 1 year in prison.


That's crazysauce. Like, in general, in conversation, or only if legitimately pretending to be a doctor? And what if you have a non-EU doctorate? In Iran, you can get a doctorate for memorizing the Koran and taking no classes. Do they count? What about honorary doctorates, like Stephen Colbert's DFA?

In the US, as I understand, it's not kosher to misrepresent some particular degree (MD, PhD, what have you) though I doubt you'd get prison time unless you were doing so in some fraudulent capacity.


It depends a lot on the context. If you print Dr. Something on some ID Card you hand out to friends as part of a joke, or use it as stagename to perform any kind of "art" you're probably fine. It gets problematic if you start to advertise (like the OP misunderstood) some sort of service, for which the Dr. Name could be mistaken. E.g. advertising a miraculous treatment for cancer, when all you do is some hokum, or advertising your architecture skills, when you're only some random construction worker. I really never heard of a case in which someone would've been served a harsh sentence if it wasn't related to clear fraudulent/scam-ish behaviour.


That's about it. The law is not there to punish people who want to show-off at a party but to preserve the trust the public rests in certain titles whenever the public interest is concerned.
So if you start a business and hand out business cards with a false title on it you'll probably get in trouble with the law.
If you make the good old perversly huge dick joke... well then you are an idiot but you won't be jailed.

Also, the punishment is a fine or prison up to 1 year depending on the circumstances of the individual case at hand.

Finally, I can't give you a concluding list with what doctorate is accepted and which isn't. It's a complex matter as are legal matters most of the time. The basic concept is that if the conferral of the doctorate was from a university for an actual academic work it will be accepted. If you bought it online or received it for writing a letter about how awsome you are, then it probably won't.

edit for clarification: I think the Anglo-Saxon and the continental doctorate degrees are rather different when it comes to terminology. Afaik a PhD basically is the equivalent of what we just call Doctor.
whoever I pick for my anti team turns gosu
LaNague
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany9118 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-16 22:31:10
November 16 2014 22:29 GMT
#33
On November 16 2014 20:42 tar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2014 19:51 GeckoXp wrote:
On November 16 2014 18:46 tar wrote:

As an example for the latter: in Germany there is a milk called "Bärenmarke" (roughly translated as Bear brand). Obviously, neither is the milk made by bears nor does any average consumer think so.


что???

I bought BÄRENMARKE cause of strong animal and thought gain power from the bear. I fell victim to fraudulent advertising. BLEAT


Considering this is how their bear looks like, I am not sure what powers you were expecting + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Thats clearly a murder assassin bear, look at that evil smile and that deathstare



So what i would expect is some kind of invisibility, ninja reflexes and maybe a super swordfighting skill.
GeckoXp
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
Germany2016 Posts
November 16 2014 22:41 GMT
#34
On November 17 2014 07:29 LaNague wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2014 20:42 tar wrote:
On November 16 2014 19:51 GeckoXp wrote:
On November 16 2014 18:46 tar wrote:

As an example for the latter: in Germany there is a milk called "Bärenmarke" (roughly translated as Bear brand). Obviously, neither is the milk made by bears nor does any average consumer think so.


что???

I bought BÄRENMARKE cause of strong animal and thought gain power from the bear. I fell victim to fraudulent advertising. BLEAT


Considering this is how their bear looks like, I am not sure what powers you were expecting + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Thats clearly a murder assassin bear, look at that evil smile and that deathstare



So what i would expect is some kind of invisibility, ninja reflexes and maybe a super swordfighting skill.


Imagine what it'd look like if it had a Brazzers Logo.
brickrd
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
United States4894 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-17 04:23:36
November 17 2014 04:22 GMT
#35
pretty much what tar said IMO. the law is not mechanical and absolute. laws exist to serve a purpose, and since there is literally no developmentally stable adult in the world who would think dr dre - a rapper with a line of headphones - is actually a physician, there is no need for anyone to take any action regardless of whether it's technically legal advertising or not, it would serve no purpose for anyone anywhere to even attempt to take action against dr dre for this

it's not unheard of for someone to be arrested under a law and have the judge throw out the case because of the "spirit of the law" as opposed to the "letter of the law"
TL+ Member
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
November 17 2014 04:51 GMT
#36
Next you'll be telling me Dr. Dre didn't design the headphones.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
Fecalfeast
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada11355 Posts
November 17 2014 06:58 GMT
#37
made me think of http://www.huffingtonpsst.com/2014/09/01/dr-dre-receive-honorary-doctorate/
ModeratorINFLATE YOUR POST COUNT; PLAY TL MAFIA
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
November 17 2014 13:32 GMT
#38
It turns out that the optimal way of using TL slowly converges to regular searches for new posts of this nina-person.
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
endy
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Switzerland8970 Posts
November 17 2014 18:08 GMT
#39
On November 16 2014 08:54 SixStrings wrote:
I'm assuming that stuff is pretty normal in the US, because consumer protection and foot labelling isn't really a thing, but American corporate liberalism isn't really the topic here.


It's definitely a thing, look:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
ॐ
tar
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany991 Posts
November 17 2014 18:55 GMT
#40
On November 18 2014 03:08 endy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2014 08:54 SixStrings wrote:
I'm assuming that stuff is pretty normal in the US, because consumer protection and foot labelling isn't really a thing, but American corporate liberalism isn't really the topic here.


It's definitely a thing, look:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


This is hilarious :D
whoever I pick for my anti team turns gosu
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 6h 29m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech153
Codebar 146
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 585
ggaemo 355
Hyuk 315
Leta 167
Mind 75
sSak 65
PianO 51
Sea.KH 45
Shinee 36
Hyun 35
[ Show more ]
Bishop 34
ToSsGirL 33
Terrorterran 33
Sacsri 15
JYJ 12
yabsab 11
zelot 10
ajuk12(nOOB) 9
Noble 4
Dota 2
Gorgc3629
Dendi1371
XaKoH 516
canceldota72
Fuzer 5
Counter-Strike
fl0m3075
x6flipin279
Other Games
singsing1765
hiko895
Coldzera 837
Beastyqt525
Khaldor506
ceh9346
Liquid`Hasu233
KnowMe188
DeMusliM155
QueenE74
Chillindude11
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• 3DClanTV 30
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• ChaeLyn 5
• FirePhoenix2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2132
League of Legends
• Nemesis2721
• Jankos1861
Other Games
• Shiphtur280
Upcoming Events
OSC
6h 29m
Online Event
18h 29m
Korean StarCraft League
1d 10h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 13h
Rush vs Soulkey
CranKy Ducklings
1d 17h
AI Arena Tournament
1d 23h
BSL Open Qualifier
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
OSC
2 days
IPSL
2 days
[ Show More ]
BSL Open Qualifier
3 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-14
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
HCC Season 3
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.