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Let's say I want to publish a book and to give it more credence, I call myself professor, while never having achieved any academic title. I could defend this by saying 'Well, I wear glasses, so all my friends call me 'the professor' anyway, so I'm really just using my pseudonym'.
If you're from Europe, you will probably assume that's illegal, right?
I'm assuming that stuff is pretty normal in the US, because consumer protection and foot labelling isn't really a thing, but American corporate liberalism isn't really the topic here.
A couple of days ago, I lost my headphones, so I went into the store to listen to new ones and to later buy the ones I like for cheaper at Amazon. It doesn't matter which ones I chose, but a pair of the ones I didn't choose were called 'Beats by Dr. Dre'.
I didn't pick them because they sounded awful, looked flashy and weren't exactly comfortable, but I was curious about the high price and the person who lend his name to them.
Surely his doctor title must be relevant to the product, right?
I figured he would be some renowned sound engineer whose degree comes from the realm of physics, so I looked him up.
Many of you, especially Americans, probably know this already, but I was really surprised to find out that he is in fact just a rapper.
Can anyone give me even an approximate legal explanation as to how this isn't fraud or at the very least false advertising? How can you use an academic title you don't have to push your product?
Edit: Now, I'm not saying that his credentials aren't impressive and I don't want to imply that because his 'title' is just a stage name he isn't qualified to produce a product. Certainly if you produced music for the wealthiest rap artists in the industry you understand what people want, I just don't understand how he can legally sell his products under EU trade law.
  
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I'm not legally a Chairman of anything. I just like to sit.
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United States15275 Posts
0/5 or 5/5, I can't choose.
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On November 16 2014 08:57 Chairman Ray wrote:
I'm not legally a Chairman of anything. I just like to sit.
I always assumed you were a member of the Communist party.
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On November 16 2014 09:17 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2014 08:57 Chairman Ray wrote:
I'm not legally a Chairman of anything. I just like to sit. I always assumed you were a member of the Communist party.
I guess I falsely advertised
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False advertisement is certainly a problem, but I don't really think that's an instance of it. They're not trying to mislead anyone, they're just getting the endorsement of a rapper.
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On November 16 2014 09:18 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2014 09:17 WaveofShadow wrote:On November 16 2014 08:57 Chairman Ray wrote:
I'm not legally a Chairman of anything. I just like to sit. I always assumed you were a member of the Communist party. I guess I falsely advertised
you do have nice chairs
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He can do it because that is his stage name (since like the 1980s) and everyone in the US knows who the hell Dr. Dre is. Its not false advertising. Also you seem to think we don't have food labels lol?
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Canada11378 Posts
Dr Dre is just following in the footsteps of Dr Seuss.
Dr Seuss- original rhythm and rhyme and all rappers follow his flow.
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I admit I still twitch a little at seeing "Lady Gaga" in print. But only a little.
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I would give you 5/5, but the fact is you can get a doctorate in Communications. So no one intelligent respects the title without knowing its context in the first place.
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Those headphones are advertised as "beats by dre" not "beats by dr. Dre." I've seen those ads.
You already knew his stage name was dr. dre.
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On November 16 2014 08:54 SixStrings wrote:
Many of you, especially Americans, probably know this already, but I was really surprised to find out that he is in fact just a rapper.
Can anyone give me even an approximate legal explanation as to how this isn't fraud or at the very least false advertising? How can you use an academic title you don't have to push your product?
I don't want to change the subject or anything but... have you ever been diagnosed with Autism, OP?
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On November 16 2014 12:28 batsnacks wrote:
Those headphones are advertised as "beats by dre" not "beats by dr. Dre." I've seen those ads.
You already knew his stage name was dr. dre.
well, they are not, at least not in Germany. Here the trademark is: beats by dr.dre
With regard to the OP: Assuming this blog is real, the short legal explanation would be as follows:
Advertisement is "illegal" under European law if it is either untrue and/or misleading, both with regard to the product and its qualities.
The gauge for this is the average consumer and how he perceives the advertisement.
Applying those principles, the advertisement is "legal" since the brand is by dr.dre (thus true) and the average consumer would not relate the "dr." in dr.dre with the qualities of the product because on one hand dr.dre is a well known artist and on the otherhand the trademark usually is not an indication for the qualities of the product itself.
As an example for the latter: in Germany there is a milk called "Bärenmarke" (roughly translated as Bear brand). Obviously, neither is the milk made by bears nor does any average consumer think so.
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On November 16 2014 18:46 tar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2014 12:28 batsnacks wrote:
Those headphones are advertised as "beats by dre" not "beats by dr. Dre." I've seen those ads.
You already knew his stage name was dr. dre. well, they are not, at least not in Germany. Here the trademark is: beats by dr.dreAs an example for the latter: in Germany there is a milk called "Bärenmarke" (roughly translated as Bear brand). Obviously, neither is the milk made by bears nor does any average consumer think so.
I'd drink the hell out of bear milk, damn
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On November 16 2014 18:46 tar wrote:
As an example for the latter: in Germany there is a milk called "Bärenmarke" (roughly translated as Bear brand). Obviously, neither is the milk made by bears nor does any average consumer think so.
что???
I bought BÄRENMARKE cause of strong animal and thought gain power from the bear. I fell victim to fraudulent advertising. BLEAT
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On November 16 2014 19:51 GeckoXp wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2014 18:46 tar wrote:
As an example for the latter: in Germany there is a milk called "Bärenmarke" (roughly translated as Bear brand). Obviously, neither is the milk made by bears nor does any average consumer think so. что???I bought BÄRENMARKE cause of strong animal and thought gain power from the bear. I fell victim to fraudulent advertising. BLEAT
Considering this is how their bear looks like, I am not sure what powers you were expecting  + Show Spoiler +
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On November 16 2014 20:42 tar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2014 19:51 GeckoXp wrote:On November 16 2014 18:46 tar wrote:
As an example for the latter: in Germany there is a milk called "Bärenmarke" (roughly translated as Bear brand). Obviously, neither is the milk made by bears nor does any average consumer think so. что???I bought BÄRENMARKE cause of strong animal and thought gain power from the bear. I fell victim to fraudulent advertising. BLEAT Considering this is how their bear looks like, I am not sure what powers you were expecting + Show Spoiler +
These 2 posts made the blog so worth 
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On November 16 2014 20:42 tar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2014 19:51 GeckoXp wrote:On November 16 2014 18:46 tar wrote:
As an example for the latter: in Germany there is a milk called "Bärenmarke" (roughly translated as Bear brand). Obviously, neither is the milk made by bears nor does any average consumer think so. что???I bought BÄRENMARKE cause of strong animal and thought gain power from the bear. I fell victim to fraudulent advertising. BLEAT Considering this is how their bear looks like, I am not sure what powers you were expecting + Show Spoiler +
It is of double baertrayal. Not only name is confusing, but also the logo is of cheating. Never to trust advertisment again.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Kyr0CvP.jpg)
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"Doctor" is a customary title, not a legal one. If it was "Dre, M.D", then there's a potential issue of misrepresentation.
Given that Jeremy Clarkson is a "Doctor" of Engineering (twice!), I don't think there's much argument for European law on the topic.
Oh, but the headphones do suck, especially for the price. Few know what good headphones actually sound like.
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On November 16 2014 23:03 Taf the Ghost wrote:
"Doctor" is a customary title, not a legal one. If it was "Dre, M.D", then there's a potential issue of misrepresentation.
Given that Jeremy Clarkson is a "Doctor" of Engineering (twice!), I don't think there's much argument for European law on the topic.
Oh, but the headphones do suck, especially for the price. Few know what good headphones actually sound like.
Don't know about the situation in the U.S. but in Europe or rather Germany, this is not the case.
"Doctor" is an official academic title. Using it without the appropriate doctorate degree is a criminal offence.
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On November 17 2014 00:09 tar wrote:
in Europe or rather Germany, this is not the case.
"Doctor" is an official academic title. Using it without the appropriate doctorate degree is a criminal offence.
I am a veterinarian hence a doctor in Bulgaria. If I say I am a doctor in Germany, is it a criminal offense? Will I go to jail? I mean, my diploma might not be valid in the whole EU (or it might be, I don't know and I don't care) and thus I would not technically be a doctor there. Or if one is a doctor somewhere in the world, he is free to say so in Deutschland?
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On November 17 2014 02:20 hymn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2014 00:09 tar wrote:
in Europe or rather Germany, this is not the case.
"Doctor" is an official academic title. Using it without the appropriate doctorate degree is a criminal offence. I am a veterinarian hence a doctor in Bulgaria. If I say I am a doctor in Germany, is it a criminal offense? Will I go to jail? I mean, my diploma might not be valid in the whole EU (or it might be, I don't know and I don't care) and thus I would not technically be a doctor there. Or if one is a doctor somewhere in the world, he is free to say so in Deutschland?
The short answer: If you have any EU university doctorate degree you are allowed to call yourself Doctor (Dr.) in Germany. If you have a degree but no doctorate you are not allowed to do so and can be fined or punished with up to 1 year in prison.
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Sound engineers aren't doctors anyways.
A lot of the tech savvy groups go on reddit which is very vocally against beats. Most of us know they're shitty headphones.
Inferiority of products with high markups is kind of a thing here, and I assume it's the same in Europe tbh. No company is perfectly efficient and once a company gains a monopoly or a sizeable chunk of the market share they don't have the need to change and become inefficient. Then there are companies that just make ridiculous profit ratios, which is probably what happened to beats.
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Will give credit for genius trollage, however also possible poster is young enough to legit now know who Dr. Dre is, and that this isn't troll.
#thatmomentyourealisestuffyougrewupwithisnowold
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You don't know who Dr. Dre is? lol that your own damn fault. And not just a rapper, more like the pimp of all rappers. (bought everyone out to work for his label.)
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On November 16 2014 08:54 SixStrings wrote:
Surely his doctor title must be relevant to the product, right?
I figured he would be some renowned sound engineer whose degree comes from the realm of physics, so I looked him up.
Many of you, especially Americans, probably know this already, but I was really surprised to find out that he is in fact just a rapper.
Can anyone give me even an approximate legal explanation as to how this isn't fraud or at the very least false advertising? How can you use an academic title you don't have to push your product?
All I can say is: lol.
I would also add that, of all the misleading ads, you pick Dre Beats as the staple of false advertising? I'm not even mad, yo. This is one of the funniest things I've ever read. Just seeing a confused European seeing the title of 'doctor', doing some research and then demanding an explanation.
+ Show Spoiler [memes] +
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On November 17 2014 02:52 tar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2014 02:20 hymn wrote:On November 17 2014 00:09 tar wrote:
in Europe or rather Germany, this is not the case.
"Doctor" is an official academic title. Using it without the appropriate doctorate degree is a criminal offence. I am a veterinarian hence a doctor in Bulgaria. If I say I am a doctor in Germany, is it a criminal offense? Will I go to jail? I mean, my diploma might not be valid in the whole EU (or it might be, I don't know and I don't care) and thus I would not technically be a doctor there. Or if one is a doctor somewhere in the world, he is free to say so in Deutschland? The short answer: If you have any EU university doctorate degree you are allowed to call yourself Doctor (Dr.) in Germany. If you have a degree but no doctorate you are not allowed to do so and can be fined or punished with up to 1 year in prison.
That's crazysauce. Like, in general, in conversation, or only if legitimately pretending to be a doctor? And what if you have a non-EU doctorate? In Iran, you can get a doctorate for memorizing the Koran and taking no classes. Do they count? What about honorary doctorates, like Stephen Colbert's DFA?
In the US, as I understand, it's not kosher to misrepresent some particular degree (MD, PhD, what have you) though I doubt you'd get prison time unless you were doing so in some fraudulent capacity.
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TLADT24920 Posts
I can understand the OP's point but why would a doctor make headphones in the first place?
On November 17 2014 04:46 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2014 08:54 SixStrings wrote:
Surely his doctor title must be relevant to the product, right?
I figured he would be some renowned sound engineer whose degree comes from the realm of physics, so I looked him up.
Many of you, especially Americans, probably know this already, but I was really surprised to find out that he is in fact just a rapper.
Can anyone give me even an approximate legal explanation as to how this isn't fraud or at the very least false advertising? How can you use an academic title you don't have to push your product?
All I can say is: lol. I would also add that, of all the misleading ads, you pick Dre Beats as the staple of false advertising? I'm not even mad, yo. This is one of the funniest things I've ever read. Just seeing a confused European seeing the title of 'doctor', doing some research and then demanding an explanation. + Show Spoiler [memes] +
LOL all those memes XD
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On November 17 2014 05:34 Yoav wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2014 02:52 tar wrote:On November 17 2014 02:20 hymn wrote:On November 17 2014 00:09 tar wrote:
in Europe or rather Germany, this is not the case.
"Doctor" is an official academic title. Using it without the appropriate doctorate degree is a criminal offence. I am a veterinarian hence a doctor in Bulgaria. If I say I am a doctor in Germany, is it a criminal offense? Will I go to jail? I mean, my diploma might not be valid in the whole EU (or it might be, I don't know and I don't care) and thus I would not technically be a doctor there. Or if one is a doctor somewhere in the world, he is free to say so in Deutschland? The short answer: If you have any EU university doctorate degree you are allowed to call yourself Doctor (Dr.) in Germany. If you have a degree but no doctorate you are not allowed to do so and can be fined or punished with up to 1 year in prison. That's crazysauce. Like, in general, in conversation, or only if legitimately pretending to be a doctor? And what if you have a non-EU doctorate? In Iran, you can get a doctorate for memorizing the Koran and taking no classes. Do they count? What about honorary doctorates, like Stephen Colbert's DFA? In the US, as I understand, it's not kosher to misrepresent some particular degree (MD, PhD, what have you) though I doubt you'd get prison time unless you were doing so in some fraudulent capacity.
It depends a lot on the context. If you print Dr. Something on some ID Card you hand out to friends as part of a joke, or use it as stagename to perform any kind of "art" you're probably fine. It gets problematic if you start to advertise (like the OP misunderstood) some sort of service, for which the Dr. Name could be mistaken. E.g. advertising a miraculous treatment for cancer, when all you do is some hokum, or advertising your architecture skills, when you're only some random construction worker. I really never heard of a case in which someone would've been served a harsh sentence if it wasn't related to clear fraudulent/scam-ish behaviour.
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On November 17 2014 06:35 GeckoXp wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2014 05:34 Yoav wrote:On November 17 2014 02:52 tar wrote:On November 17 2014 02:20 hymn wrote:On November 17 2014 00:09 tar wrote:
in Europe or rather Germany, this is not the case.
"Doctor" is an official academic title. Using it without the appropriate doctorate degree is a criminal offence. I am a veterinarian hence a doctor in Bulgaria. If I say I am a doctor in Germany, is it a criminal offense? Will I go to jail? I mean, my diploma might not be valid in the whole EU (or it might be, I don't know and I don't care) and thus I would not technically be a doctor there. Or if one is a doctor somewhere in the world, he is free to say so in Deutschland? The short answer: If you have any EU university doctorate degree you are allowed to call yourself Doctor (Dr.) in Germany. If you have a degree but no doctorate you are not allowed to do so and can be fined or punished with up to 1 year in prison. That's crazysauce. Like, in general, in conversation, or only if legitimately pretending to be a doctor? And what if you have a non-EU doctorate? In Iran, you can get a doctorate for memorizing the Koran and taking no classes. Do they count? What about honorary doctorates, like Stephen Colbert's DFA? In the US, as I understand, it's not kosher to misrepresent some particular degree (MD, PhD, what have you) though I doubt you'd get prison time unless you were doing so in some fraudulent capacity. It depends a lot on the context. If you print Dr. Something on some ID Card you hand out to friends as part of a joke, or use it as stagename to perform any kind of "art" you're probably fine. It gets problematic if you start to advertise (like the OP misunderstood) some sort of service, for which the Dr. Name could be mistaken. E.g. advertising a miraculous treatment for cancer, when all you do is some hokum, or advertising your architecture skills, when you're only some random construction worker. I really never heard of a case in which someone would've been served a harsh sentence if it wasn't related to clear fraudulent/scam-ish behaviour.
That's about it. The law is not there to punish people who want to show-off at a party but to preserve the trust the public rests in certain titles whenever the public interest is concerned.
So if you start a business and hand out business cards with a false title on it you'll probably get in trouble with the law.
If you make the good old perversly huge dick joke... well then you are an idiot but you won't be jailed.
Also, the punishment is a fine or prison up to 1 year depending on the circumstances of the individual case at hand.
Finally, I can't give you a concluding list with what doctorate is accepted and which isn't. It's a complex matter as are legal matters most of the time. The basic concept is that if the conferral of the doctorate was from a university for an actual academic work it will be accepted. If you bought it online or received it for writing a letter about how awsome you are, then it probably won't.
edit for clarification: I think the Anglo-Saxon and the continental doctorate degrees are rather different when it comes to terminology. Afaik a PhD basically is the equivalent of what we just call Doctor.
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On November 16 2014 20:42 tar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2014 19:51 GeckoXp wrote:On November 16 2014 18:46 tar wrote:
As an example for the latter: in Germany there is a milk called "Bärenmarke" (roughly translated as Bear brand). Obviously, neither is the milk made by bears nor does any average consumer think so. что???I bought BÄRENMARKE cause of strong animal and thought gain power from the bear. I fell victim to fraudulent advertising. BLEAT Considering this is how their bear looks like, I am not sure what powers you were expecting + Show Spoiler +
Thats clearly a murder assassin bear, look at that evil smile and that deathstare
So what i would expect is some kind of invisibility, ninja reflexes and maybe a super swordfighting skill.
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On November 17 2014 07:29 LaNague wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2014 20:42 tar wrote:On November 16 2014 19:51 GeckoXp wrote:On November 16 2014 18:46 tar wrote:
As an example for the latter: in Germany there is a milk called "Bärenmarke" (roughly translated as Bear brand). Obviously, neither is the milk made by bears nor does any average consumer think so. что???I bought BÄRENMARKE cause of strong animal and thought gain power from the bear. I fell victim to fraudulent advertising. BLEAT Considering this is how their bear looks like, I am not sure what powers you were expecting + Show Spoiler + Thats clearly a murder assassin bear, look at that evil smile and that deathstare So what i would expect is some kind of invisibility, ninja reflexes and maybe a super swordfighting skill.
Imagine what it'd look like if it had a Brazzers Logo.
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pretty much what tar said IMO. the law is not mechanical and absolute. laws exist to serve a purpose, and since there is literally no developmentally stable adult in the world who would think dr dre - a rapper with a line of headphones - is actually a physician, there is no need for anyone to take any action regardless of whether it's technically legal advertising or not, it would serve no purpose for anyone anywhere to even attempt to take action against dr dre for this
it's not unheard of for someone to be arrested under a law and have the judge throw out the case because of the "spirit of the law" as opposed to the "letter of the law"
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Next you'll be telling me Dr. Dre didn't design the headphones.
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Canada11355 Posts
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It turns out that the optimal way of using TL slowly converges to regular searches for new posts of this nina-person.
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On November 16 2014 08:54 SixStrings wrote:
I'm assuming that stuff is pretty normal in the US, because consumer protection and foot labelling isn't really a thing, but American corporate liberalism isn't really the topic here.
It's definitely a thing, look:
+ Show Spoiler +
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On November 18 2014 03:08 endy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2014 08:54 SixStrings wrote:
I'm assuming that stuff is pretty normal in the US, because consumer protection and foot labelling isn't really a thing, but American corporate liberalism isn't really the topic here.
It's definitely a thing, look: + Show Spoiler +
This is hilarious :D
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so you want the law to cover your ignorance of mainstream media?
lol
the fact you thought dr. dre was actually some sort of actual 'doctor of music engineering' is too funny.. and you actually got mad because you felt duped..lmao oh man too good...
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On November 16 2014 08:54 SixStrings wrote:
Can anyone give me even an approximate legal explanation as to how this isn't fraud or at the very least false advertising? How can you use an academic title you don't have to push your product?
He does not use "Dr." to push his product. Rather he uses his recognizable name "Dr. Dre". When younger (some 30 years ago), Andre Young dressed as a medical student while DJing. He eventually picked up the name Dr. Dre almost as a joke. He is not using Dr. for a monetary gain beyond the recognizability. Take Alice Cooper for instance, his birth name is neither Alice, nor Cooper, however he uses his stage name as a brand.
Let's go to our realm. Day[9] is actually Sean Plott, but he goes by his stage name, which is also his brand name. He neither brings nor takes away the metaphysical Day and is not associated to it in any way. He does not use our knowledge of Daylight in order to promote himself, rather he uses a name that is simply synonymous with it.
On a legal note, I'm not terrible certain, I am not lawyer. On a morale note, for one to say they have a PhD or M.D. is very frowned upon, and in the academic world can lead to serious reprimand. I unfortunately have to point out, that the fact he goes by Dr. Dre, is simply to get you interested in his music/products, look in to it and possibly buy it.
One more way to look at it. Would you buy a Coca-Cola if it's name were actually, Brown-Fizzy-Water-With-Sugar-Added-Which-Will-Rot-Teeth.... Coke is a wee bit easier to say.
Hope this makes sense.
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What about video games advertised as very much playable but are released with crashing bugs and errors and slow fps, with a request for reviewers to not release reviews until after a day or so of release unless payed by the publisher/developer to do so?
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Baa?21244 Posts
To quote Homer, "Is Dr. [sic] Pepper a real doctor?"
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On November 19 2014 02:10 3FFA wrote:
What about video games advertised as very much playable but are released with crashing bugs and errors and slow fps, with a request for reviewers to not release reviews until after a day or so of release unless payed by the publisher/developer to do so?
Depends on how TOS are written. Generally this kind of thing is supposed to be punished by the market. But AAA games are pretty oligopolistic.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/38/2278/35527615/baerenmarke-6544583418603204098.jpg)
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