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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On March 18 2014 10:24 EJK wrote: I read "main points" and "full transcriptoin" and my mind blended together main points in a transcript lol. And maybe i didn't read it b/c i have better shit to do Well you definitely did shit. Can't say it was better. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16665 Posts
On March 17 2014 18:03 Endymion wrote: i just dont think they give a fuck anymore and i think they're stuck between a rock and a hard place. they'll release LOTV, and then the executive team in charge of managing sc2 and the other standard IPs will be like "well sc2 fell out of competition with league and dota during its later stages, what went wrong?" and some intern will be like "we didn't innovate, we fell behind and people stopped caring about the game and its client. the passion of a select few can only sustain a game for so long." SC2 competes with C&C, AoE, CoH, and Warcraft3 because its an RTS game. Blizzard's official competitor within the LoL and Dota2 genre is Heroes of the Storm, not SC2. The team that made SC2 is the team assigned to Heroes of the Storm. Don't expect this team to return to the RTS genre to make another full "AAA" level RTS game. They will make LotV though. Any Team1 member working on HeroesotS can more easily transfer to other Blizzard projects because Heroes involves all 3 Blizzard universes. the RTS sub-genre of the Strategy genre has been slowly declining for a long while now due to changing consumer tastes. SC2 is the ultimo hombre of the genre. The Strategy genre ( which encompasses far more than RTS) is vibrant and thriving. SC2 and its esports scene will slowly decline for about the next 5 years or so and Blizz won't make another RTS game as both the genre and the platform (desktop PC computer) are engaged in less and less by consumers. if you like RTS games the next 5 years of SC2 will be fun, just don't expect explosive growth. what you see now is what you're going to get. in 5 years the SC2 eSports scene will probably be 1/2 the size of what it is now. expect slow decline. Relic is a shadow of its former self. EA has mothballed 2 RTS studios in the past 5 years. Microsoft closed down Ensemble and did not replace it. and now Blizzard has their RTS team making a "hero brawler". Don't expect Blizzard to put "AAA" development resources into resuscitating a sub-genre that consumers do not want. Blizz has done a great job in a declining genre that is developed for a slowly declining platform ( desktop PC ). Do not blame Blizzard for the eventual death of the RTS genre, and don't blame it on bad community building by Blizzard. | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
On March 18 2014 09:54 EJK wrote: Transcript does not imply you wrote this down, it implies that you have the mental capacity to recall a summary of what you talked about for 17 minutes all into 1-2 sentences, maybe even a couple bullet points stating what is actually in this cast so that people know what they are getting into before they listen to 17 minutes worth of talking, coz sometimes they have better shit to do. I doubt if you really had better shit to do you'd be posting on this forum complaining about something you aren't paying for. | ||
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Artisian
United States115 Posts
The average player probably doesn't have a tournament or team they are playing for, and they need to. | ||
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EJK
United States1302 Posts
On March 18 2014 11:19 TotalBiscuit wrote: I doubt if you really had better shit to do you'd be posting on this forum complaining about something you aren't paying for. On the contrary, i complain about the free stuff (heroes of the storm open beta pls) | ||
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xpldngmn
Austria264 Posts
On March 18 2014 08:50 radscorpion9 wrote: One of the funnest parts for me is reading Twitch chat. I swear they all act like babies on there, and its just so funny to read their comments XD. I genuinely mean this in a good way... All the memes, the constant greyfaces, the crazy overreactions to all sorts of jokes (and the picture of boobs) where a thousand comments flash across the screen and then certain individuals make jokes about being washed away in a sea of comments. Honestly, its better than the game sometimes. I also love how when moderators turn off subscriber-only chat thousands of people type FREEDOM!! and it turns into chaos  . Man...reminds me of Day9's chat...when it was subscriber-free and there was more spontaneity. Sigh..I miss those daysI highly recommend exploring TB's soundcloud further, it is hilarious. THX Endymion, please someone throw a brick with this post wrapped around it through a window at the blizzard building. | ||
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Fighter
Korea (South)1531 Posts
On March 17 2014 07:16 nunun wrote: [*]Every time Starcraft has inferior viewer numbers to other games, a lot of people scream that the game is dead
Why exactly should we care about conversion rates over absolute numbers? To make ourselves feel good? If I developed a game tomorrow, and of the 1000 people who played it, 800 were watching the other 200 play, would my conversion numbers astound you all? In however many years, people will look back and wonder which games were more influential in developing e-sports, and right now, it's looking LoL is going to have far more influence than SC2. That bothers a lot of people, because a lot of us want OUR game to be the one of influence. That seems like a legitimate concern, and something worth desiring. Fretting about it might not help the situation, but telling people to focus on conversion numbers sounds like you're reaching for a silver lining and brushing aside authentic concerns that a lot of people have. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On March 19 2014 01:15 Fighter wrote: Why exactly should we care about conversion rates over absolute numbers? To make ourselves feel good? If I developed a game tomorrow, and of the 1000 people who played it, 800 were watching the other 200 play, would my conversion numbers astound you all? In however many years, people will look back and wonder which games were more influential in developing e-sports, and right now, it's looking LoL is going to have far more influence than SC2. That bothers a lot of people, because a lot of us want OUR game to be the one of influence. That seems like a legitimate concern, and something worth desiring. Fretting about it might not help the situation, but telling people to focus on conversion numbers sounds like you're reaching for a silver lining and brushing aside authentic concerns that a lot of people have. People won't look back, and people won't care about past games unless they cared about them in the present. Do you care who won the dick measuring between Quake and CS? Does any non-BW fan care about BW's history? It's not a legitimate concern, it's just a trumped up sense of ego. 10 years down the road, when LoL, SC2 and DotA have moved on to other games or sequels, any talk of influence will be the same group of fans beating their chest for all the same arbitrary reasons. And while absolute numbers are generally nicer to have than conversion rates, it's not like conversion rates are completely meaningless. This entire thread is about the health of the scene, and while it might be nice to have the bigger numbers, conversion rates basically mean the fanbase and viewership that does exist is going to stick around for the extended future. | ||
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On March 19 2014 04:03 Fencar wrote: The "SC2 is dead" meme has been going on for like a year or something ridiculous and some people are still talking about it as if it's a new thing? wtf? People are still talking about it because it's still taking up half of GD. No one's pretending it's new. | ||
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maartendq
Belgium3115 Posts
On March 18 2014 11:32 Artisian wrote: Mostly, I just wish more people would start actually playing in tournaments. I found it all kinda meh until I actually had a tournament. The weeks before that tournament, I cared about all the tournaments, was playing 12+ games a day, and just generally enjoyed the game and it's depth. The average player probably doesn't have a tournament or team they are playing for, and they need to. The average player doesn't have the time to put in 12 games a day just to prepare for a tournament he mostly likely doesn't have time for either. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On March 19 2014 17:22 maartendq wrote: The average player doesn't have the time to put in 12 games a day just to prepare for a tournament he mostly likely doesn't have time for either. Nor are there good tournaments for the casuals. there are some cups that are cups and are open. the thing is that they last an entire day so you really do have to blow an entire day to play in a cup, just for the sake of having played in one because most poeple won't win the cup. :p a nice thing to do would be to have a bigger, online tournament, where players agree to a certain time to play together and you get like 2 matches a week or something. ro64 ro32 ro16 ro8 ro4 finals that's basically 3 weeks. you cast some of the ro64, some of the ro32, all the ro16, something like that. winner gets a small prize or something. | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
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Mistakes
United States1102 Posts
On March 18 2014 11:00 JimmyJRaynor wrote: SC2 competes with C&C, AoE, CoH, and Warcraft3 because its an RTS game. Blizzard's official competitor within the LoL and Dota2 genre is Heroes of the Storm, not SC2. The team that made SC2 is the team assigned to Heroes of the Storm. Don't expect this team to return to the RTS genre to make another full "AAA" level RTS game. They will make LotV though. Any Team1 member working on HeroesotS can more easily transfer to other Blizzard projects because Heroes involves all 3 Blizzard universes. the RTS sub-genre of the Strategy genre has been slowly declining for a long while now due to changing consumer tastes. SC2 is the ultimo hombre of the genre. The Strategy genre ( which encompasses far more than RTS) is vibrant and thriving. SC2 and its esports scene will slowly decline for about the next 5 years or so and Blizz won't make another RTS game as both the genre and the platform (desktop PC computer) are engaged in less and less by consumers. if you like RTS games the next 5 years of SC2 will be fun, just don't expect explosive growth. what you see now is what you're going to get. in 5 years the SC2 eSports scene will probably be 1/2 the size of what it is now. expect slow decline. Relic is a shadow of its former self. EA has mothballed 2 RTS studios in the past 5 years. Microsoft closed down Ensemble and did not replace it. and now Blizzard has their RTS team making a "hero brawler". Don't expect Blizzard to put "AAA" development resources into resuscitating a sub-genre that consumers do not want. Blizz has done a great job in a declining genre that is developed for a slowly declining platform ( desktop PC ). Do not blame Blizzard for the eventual death of the RTS genre, and don't blame it on bad community building by Blizzard. The PC gaming platform has been growing over the past few years. And especially recently with the terrible release of the Xbox One. Although I do not expect a huge explosive growth of SC2 in five years, I do expect it to grow. I have been seeing my friends, and friends friends try StarCraft with the new free version, and even hearing and seeing people who do not play SC at all, tune into IEM, Proleague, and GSL. The game will not have 1/2 the viewers in five years, at the very least it will be where it is now. But I do expect growth based on what I have been seeing over the last couple years. | ||
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Mistakes
United States1102 Posts
On March 19 2014 17:22 maartendq wrote: The average player doesn't have the time to put in 12 games a day just to prepare for a tournament he mostly likely doesn't have time for either. I would say the average player does have time, it's just whether they choose to spend it on that or not. My father who is going back to a university, and works 40+ hours a week plays ~10 games a day, if not more. My friend who works ~32 hours a week, also goes to business school, and has a girlfriend, and a social life, plays ~12 games a day. Small sample size, but it's just how people choose to use their time, not usually whether they physically have it or not. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
In short, a big chunk of Proleague's growth is likely because GSTL died a terrible death. Other than that I broadly agree with most of the rest . | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16665 Posts
On March 20 2014 07:30 Mistakes wrote: The PC gaming platform has been growing over the past few years. And especially recently with the terrible release of the Xbox One. Although I do not expect a huge explosive growth of SC2 in five years, I do expect it to grow. I have been seeing my friends, and friends friends try StarCraft with the new free version, and even hearing and seeing people who do not play SC at all, tune into IEM, Proleague, and GSL. The game will not have 1/2 the viewers in five years, at the very least it will be where it is now. But I do expect growth based on what I have been seeing over the last couple years. i hope you are correct. the # of GSL seasons/MLG weekend events has already declined substantially over the past 3 years. IEM/ESL seems to be holding its own, much like WC3 held its own in Europe. http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2014/01/09/2013-represented-worst-decline-in-pc-markets-history/ " It’s no wonder we’re seeing Intel INTC +1.44% push a new Dual OS initiative at CES 2014. The chip maker confirmed that new processors will be capable of switching between Android and Windows instantaneously. " Mike Morhaime believes Windows8 is bad for PC Gaming. Blizzard's D3 and Hearthstone are clear moves outside of the PC/Win world. It'll be interesting to see what Blizz does with Heroes of the Storm in the next 2 years. More than 5 years ago, Blizzard was happy to put all its eggs in the PC/MSWin basket. No longer... and i can't say i blame them. Steam is introducing the SteamBox because Gabe is afraid of where the PC//Windows OS combo is going. Do you think Blizzard will ever make games for the Steambox? Maybe that is why they conceded the Dota2 dispute so easily. They want to keep their options open once the PC/Win platform bites the dust. I wouldn't be surprised if the "Arcade" ends up having "more life in it" than the SC2 ladder in 5 years. All the big guys are getting ready for the PC/Win market to implode and are making their contingency plans. I've given examples such as Intel, Valve, AMD, i could go on and on. People are spending less and less time with the "desktop PC". | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
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SnowStormer
Norway275 Posts
On March 18 2014 10:24 EJK wrote: I read "main points" and "full transcriptoin" and my mind blended together main points in a transcript lol. And maybe i didn't read it b/c i have better shit to do That last excuse is childish. | ||
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