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I came back to sc2 after a 1.5 year break recently, before HoTS was released.
After IEM Katowice, sure the finals were bad, but I can't remember the last WoL tournament that had such exciting and close games. I didn't even watch the finals because I'm a terran player but the games I did watch were amazing, and that is what is in my memory from the tournament.
The community as well seems to be less poisonous. People are happier about the game than during late WoL.
SC2 has a shrinking player base, it's true, but the game is still incredible and our concurrent tournament numbers are still comparable to the golden age of 2011, albeit we have less tournaments.
As always, TB I love everything you do. Keep up the good work, you're spearheading a positive change in this community.
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Just listened to it. I liked it, TB. A lot. (I think you overdo the Protoss OP, but I can see where you are coming from.)
On March 17 2014 13:19 Logo wrote:
Thanks for the overview nunun.
I think the biggest problem facing SC2 is really Blizzard which is sad. No not balance or anything like that, but Blizzard is basically stuck a generation behind in terms of e-sport support. In the day and age where you have in game streaming, in game tournament tickets, game related tournament add-ons, modern day streaming tools, team banners, other in game representation, and many more great tools for communication, social e-sports, and helping tournaments & players turn a profit... not having that stuff just puts you behind. It happened fast, the concept of e-sports has come a long way since SC2 released, but Blizzard blinked and missed the chance to stay ahead.
Far from dead... just behind.
This is a fair comment, I think. For example, even adding in game links to major tournaments should be done more frequently. They only do it from time to time (probably when they remember). I can only imagine some SC2 players logging in to play, clicking the link and being taken to Revival v Jjakji on Heavy Rain or herO vs Hyun on Polar Night. Even links to vods within the client would be good with a blurb on the series. This would draw more in to the pro scene and the major tournament round.
They are getting better though. Way better than they were in WOL. But more can (and should) be done.
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On March 17 2014 13:19 Logo wrote:
Thanks for the overview nunun.
I think the biggest problem facing SC2 is really Blizzard which is sad. No not balance or anything like that, but Blizzard is basically stuck a generation behind in terms of e-sport support. In the day and age where you have in game streaming, in game tournament tickets, game related tournament add-ons, modern day streaming tools, team banners, other in game representation, and many more great tools for communication, social e-sports, and helping tournaments & players turn a profit... not having that stuff just puts you behind. It happened fast, the concept of e-sports has come a long way since SC2 released, but Blizzard blinked and missed the chance to stay ahead.
Far from dead... just behind.
"Day and age" is a bit of an overstatement. It's basically just DotA that has everything you described, with LoL having a couple features.
Not to say I don't agree with you, because DotA's entire business model and in-game systems are what every E-sport oriented game should strive for. But Valve has always been the innovative company, with others following in their footsteps.
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Canada16217 Posts
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On March 17 2014 14:30 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 13:19 Logo wrote:
Thanks for the overview nunun.
I think the biggest problem facing SC2 is really Blizzard which is sad. No not balance or anything like that, but Blizzard is basically stuck a generation behind in terms of e-sport support. In the day and age where you have in game streaming, in game tournament tickets, game related tournament add-ons, modern day streaming tools, team banners, other in game representation, and many more great tools for communication, social e-sports, and helping tournaments & players turn a profit... not having that stuff just puts you behind. It happened fast, the concept of e-sports has come a long way since SC2 released, but Blizzard blinked and missed the chance to stay ahead.
Far from dead... just behind. "Day and age" is a bit of an overstatement. It's basically just DotA that has everything you described, with LoL having a couple features. Not to say I don't agree with you, because DotA's entire business model and in-game systems are what every E-sport oriented game should strive for. But Valve has always been the innovative company, with others following in their footsteps.
Sorry, but I just love the characterization of Valve as some great benevolent innovator while Blizzard is the evil corporation. Hell, I could describe Valve's business model as maximizing income while minimizing actual work done by riding the coattails of others' creativity. If you want to congratulate them on finding a niche, go ahead, but don't act like they're selling you hats their cropsharers made out of civic pride.
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On March 17 2014 07:16 nunun wrote:A condensed semi-structured overview. Please feel free to edit and improve, I might have gotten a few things wrong or missed important points. - We are often comparing ourselves to League of Legends
- Starcraft was once the top e-sport in the world, but that's not the case anymore
- Not a good idea comparing Starcraft to free to play titles distributed on Steam
- Every time Starcraft has inferior viewer numbers to other games, a lot of people scream that the game is dead
- We will lose this dick measuring contest every time since we are comparing absolute numbers
- Instead we must look at relative numbers – the conversion rate of active players to active viewers
- We don't have the appropriate data to make these comparisons, but I will do it anyways
- LoL has a conversion rate of 1.91 percent, while Starcraft has a conversion rate of 32 percent
- We might have smaller player base, but they are more dedicated and much more likely to be active viewers
- Again, the data for these calculations is not adequate but can give an overall impression
- This is what we need to focus on
- We have a dedicated fanbase that are avid stream viewers
- This is good news, since viewers = sponsors = game alive
- We still have an extremely healthy e-sport with a dedicated fanbase
- PvP mirror finals are without a doubt having a negative impact on viewer numbers
- However, we still got 100 thousand viewers – that's very good considering the circumstances
- Jaedong vs. Polt finals would be an entirely different thing with regards to viewer numbers
- Viewer numbers would be better if balance at top level wasn't so skewed towards protoss
- I regard this as the second lowest point of Starcraft balance wise
- Zerg dominated period during Lings of Libery was worst in my opinion
- But it ended, and we had a year with strong numbers and great game
- Viewer numbers for current leagues are great compared to past leagues
- These are leagues with production and prizes that are on a reasonable and sustainable level
- We still have great players that are having great games
- Although this is sometimes overshadowed by sound-proofing issues and mirror finals
- We should be focused by our own e-sport, and how we can make it better, instead of measuring dicks
- Balance is out of our control – we demand that Blizzard resolve it
- So far it's not working out, but there are small positive changes happening sometimes
- Recent changes to Zerg working out and producing more enjoyable games
- Maps have a huge impact on the way the game is played
- WCS map pool is dictating which maps are played at events
- Would love to see event organizers taking a few chances in order to promote map pool variety
- Interesting new maps like Habitation Station provides variation and makes the game interesting
- Players are getting paid and transported to major events
- Make sure to showcase sponsor logos etc.
- We don't have a lot of bad events – actually we have a lot of good events
- I see potential – not doom and gloom
- We have a resilient e-sport and viewer-base, and we should cherish that
thanks for this
also good point of view generally speaking
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I have not watched much SC2 the past 8 months or so. It's mostly due to work and conflicting schedule most of the times I guess, since whenever I feel like watching nothing is on.
For me personally though, I have tired of the general negativity in the LR threads. And I actually hate the Dota coverage at teamliquid, but as I'm writing this I realize that with the 'new' site layout maybe I can hide those parts...
Edit: Yup, worked great :=
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On March 17 2014 16:11 Jerubaal wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 14:30 WolfintheSheep wrote:On March 17 2014 13:19 Logo wrote:
Thanks for the overview nunun.
I think the biggest problem facing SC2 is really Blizzard which is sad. No not balance or anything like that, but Blizzard is basically stuck a generation behind in terms of e-sport support. In the day and age where you have in game streaming, in game tournament tickets, game related tournament add-ons, modern day streaming tools, team banners, other in game representation, and many more great tools for communication, social e-sports, and helping tournaments & players turn a profit... not having that stuff just puts you behind. It happened fast, the concept of e-sports has come a long way since SC2 released, but Blizzard blinked and missed the chance to stay ahead.
Far from dead... just behind. "Day and age" is a bit of an overstatement. It's basically just DotA that has everything you described, with LoL having a couple features. Not to say I don't agree with you, because DotA's entire business model and in-game systems are what every E-sport oriented game should strive for. But Valve has always been the innovative company, with others following in their footsteps. Sorry, but I just love the characterization of Valve as some great benevolent innovator while Blizzard is the evil corporation. Hell, I could describe Valve's business model as maximizing income while minimizing actual work done by riding the coattails of others' creativity. If you want to congratulate them on finding a niche, go ahead, but don't act like they're selling you hats their cropsharers made out of civic pride.
i don't know about everyone else, but i still think valve's decision making is far superior to blizzard. Sure, they're still profit driven, although whenever i'm dealing with its software i don't feel the impact of the profit, which is why I think valve has been the clear winner if you compare sc2 functionality to dota2's. I haven't played sc2 since mid 2012, but I still log in every so often to see if blizzard has made the game feel less barren and unuser-friendly: they haven't. The client feels the same as it did back when i quit in 2012, with the same problems and the same lack of polish that i associate with earlier blizzard games.. it's clunky, takes me half a minute to get into a lobby and start the game (despite me having played thousands of games, i still can't quickly find differrent maps and i still run with the assumption that the "search map" function is still bugged to hell like it was back in WoL beta circa 2010..). I can't get community news either, without being involved in a TL group or a seperate community group. Sure, i'll get a little picture that says "IEM finals," but no in client article regarding the event, no in client stream, no in client link that won't bug my client when it asks me to open up a web browser (no option to just "say yes to all inquiries"). If i knew nothing about team liquid, i would log into starcraft 2 and think that the game had been dead and buried for 2 years, both in terms of client quality compared to dota2/league as well as community support on blizzard's end in client.. this is a personal opinion, but TL is the only thing keeping sc2 going.. if TL goes down, all reputable sources of sc2 news go down as far as i'm concerned, as well as any foreigner link to korea.
compare this to dota 2's client.. i'm going to load it up literally right now to see what's going on in the dota 2 community. okay. on the front page alone, i can access patch notes, i can read about valve's new documentary, i can read about "fantasy dota2 team support" (interesting as fuck aside from this post in terms of supporting a community..). I can see how active the game is, i can easily find links to playdota's forums, a facebook/twitter link, and direct feeds to the dota2 dev team (in the form of both a feedback forum and a direct feed). i know as experienced players we know where the battle.net balance forums are (that's a joke on different levels), but how are new players meant to find it without links like these? without information? who cares if they're new, if they have a problem with a game they shouldn't have to search around for a way to contact the blizzard devs (which you CANT unless you have a direct feed to an insider, because blizzard is like a complete brick wall..) Continuing. The "watch" tab, i can find a calender of all upcoming events to plan out my weekends, i can find out what my favorite team is doing and how they've been doing, i can find wins/losses from specific events.. Now imagine being a new player, and thinking "oh, watch dota? that sounds kinda weird, i don't really want to commit to paying for it but i still want to see high level play.." they can just hit the "live games" tab and select any game they want to observe whatever random lobby (public) that they want.. they don't NEED to go outside of the client like we do for sc2 to access twitch, they don't need to sift through personalities/races that they might not like, they don't need TL to do anything for them to enjoy dota to on a competitive ground. I haven't even touched the store's accessibility, and just the general functionality of the client.. it's responsive, easy to use, and versatile. there isn't wasted space, there isn't wasted menus, it's just clean. come to think of it, why isn't there just a "melee" part of SC2 where you can find MM and melee custom games and then a whole different arcade part for ease of access?
ok, now i'm going to go deep into valve's International marketing and my experience with it. I didn't buy a compendium. When it first came out i was just like "yeah fuck that, i'll just watch the games on twitch if at all." The majority of my friends said the same thing, we had no interest in the international. Then, trading cards happened.. Again, I didn't care about it outside of making fun of player card pictures at the end of a lobby. Then there was an active market for the cards, I started being able to trade them for items and in turn rares.. Then compendiums got their own ladder, and xp boosts, for 3 whole months, giving them extra incentives. Then they started getting free items, making me even more jealous. Then they got a fantasy team style thing, and a cool icon on their profile which was interactive. Then they kept getting more and more things, until i really regretted not buying one. Valve put all that effort into it, supporting its major tournament, and you can be sure that every time i logged into dota while the tourny was running 20 or 30 of my friends were watching games, PMing me about rares they won from watching said games, and just generally enjoying themselves because of the event.. because it really WAS and event, every time i logged into dota i was blasted with international marketing, and I didn't even mind because they were giving me value. They turned me into a fan from being super cynical, which i honestly didn't think they could, making me feel closer to the dota community.
What has blizzard done (again, excluding all rage about SC2 vs BW and the current state of sc2) to make the community of sc2 flourish? they've pumped money into the scene? It's just not enough anymore, and the sc2 community is struggling to stay together as a result of the lack of ingenuity on blizzard's part. And yeah, i realize that value is incentivized to sell compendiums and hats and all that stuff, and that it drives the firm's business model. but still, you can't give blizzard a free pass on this, because its game is most certainly on the chopping block while the company sits on its hands and does nothing for the community.
blizzard knows this of course, i just dont think they give a fuck anymore and i think they're stuck between a rock and a hard place. they'll release LOTV, and then the executive team in charge of managing sc2 and the other standard IPs will be like "well sc2 fell out of competition with league and dota during its later stages, what went wrong?"
and some intern will be like "we didn't innovate, we fell behind and people stopped caring about the game and its client. the passion of a select few can only sustain a game for so long."
then the exec will be like "that's true, sc2's business model was out of place and we didn't want to change it for a bunch of reasons.. but what about sc3? can we adapt it into a F2P model similar to hearthstone/mobas?"
and the room will go quiet, and i don't think they'll be able to find a solution that fits the niche rts market, even if they managed to get the koreans on board with a return to more traditional mechanics.
i hope they can though, because as much as i'm frustrated with sc2 and the development team, i still love the fuck out of it and brood war. they're probably the two best competitive games ever made, and it frustrates me that blizzard refuses to innovate in a way that is conducive to growing a sustainable competitive (and casual) community for its games..
love ya blizzard, dont let me down
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I think it's a little too soon to be demanding more balance changes when it's only been a few weeks since the last patch. Give it a little bit of time to work- after all there were two terrans in the semis and one of those semis was pretty damn close.
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United Kingdom1381 Posts
Could somebody trademark "Health of the scene" to stop Blizzard trying to make a game out of it?
Also thanks for promoting different maps in Clan Wars it really helps make the scene less stale.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 17 2014 07:16 nunun wrote:A condensed semi-structured overview. Please feel free to edit and improve, I might have gotten a few things wrong or missed important points. - We are often comparing ourselves to League of Legends
- Starcraft was once the top e-sport in the world, but that's not the case anymore
- Not a good idea comparing Starcraft to free to play titles distributed on Steam
- Every time Starcraft has inferior viewer numbers to other games, a lot of people scream that the game is dead
- We will lose this dick measuring contest every time since we are comparing absolute numbers
- Instead we must look at relative numbers – the conversion rate of active players to active viewers
- We don't have the appropriate data to make these comparisons, but I will do it anyways
- LoL has a conversion rate of 1.91 percent, while Starcraft has a conversion rate of 32 percent
- We might have smaller player base, but they are more dedicated and much more likely to be active viewers
- Again, the data for these calculations is not adequate but can give an overall impression
- This is what we need to focus on
- We have a dedicated fanbase that are avid stream viewers
- This is good news, since viewers = sponsors = game alive
- We still have an extremely healthy e-sport with a dedicated fanbase
- PvP mirror finals are without a doubt having a negative impact on viewer numbers
- However, we still got 100 thousand viewers – that's very good considering the circumstances
- Jaedong vs. Polt finals would be an entirely different thing with regards to viewer numbers
- Viewer numbers would be better if balance at top level wasn't so skewed towards protoss
- I regard this as the second lowest point of Starcraft balance wise
- Zerg dominated period during Lings of Libery was worst in my opinion
- But it ended, and we had a year with strong numbers and great game
- Viewer numbers for current leagues are great compared to past leagues
- These are leagues with production and prizes that are on a reasonable and sustainable level
- We still have great players that are having great games
- Although this is sometimes overshadowed by sound-proofing issues and mirror finals
- We should be focused by our own e-sport, and how we can make it better, instead of measuring dicks
- Balance is out of our control – we demand that Blizzard resolve it
- So far it's not working out, but there are small positive changes happening sometimes
- Recent changes to Zerg working out and producing more enjoyable games
- Maps have a huge impact on the way the game is played
- WCS map pool is dictating which maps are played at events
- Would love to see event organizers taking a few chances in order to promote map pool variety
- Interesting new maps like Habitation Station provides variation and makes the game interesting
- Players are getting paid and transported to major events
- Make sure to showcase sponsor logos etc.
- We don't have a lot of bad events – actually we have a lot of good events
- I see potential – not doom and gloom
- We have a resilient e-sport and viewer-base, and we should cherish that
Thank you very very much!
Starcraft was once the top e-sport in the world, but that's not the case anymore
Are we really sure about this? BW was almost exclusively a Korean thing except WCG. It was big there but in the rest of the world? So you can argue that SC2 is way more marketable than BW despite its lower viewer number due to international exposition.
I mean on the same argument you can say Buzkashi is super popular in the world because it is national sport in central asia. (You think Baseball is a weird sport? Nothing beats Buzkashi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buzkashi)
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On March 17 2014 19:54 Micro_Jackson wrote:Show nested quote ++ Show Spoiler +On March 17 2014 07:16 nunun wrote:A condensed semi-structured overview. Please feel free to edit and improve, I might have gotten a few things wrong or missed important points. - We are often comparing ourselves to League of Legends
- Starcraft was once the top e-sport in the world, but that's not the case anymore
- Not a good idea comparing Starcraft to free to play titles distributed on Steam
- Every time Starcraft has inferior viewer numbers to other games, a lot of people scream that the game is dead
- We will lose this dick measuring contest every time since we are comparing absolute numbers
- Instead we must look at relative numbers – the conversion rate of active players to active viewers
- We don't have the appropriate data to make these comparisons, but I will do it anyways
- LoL has a conversion rate of 1.91 percent, while Starcraft has a conversion rate of 32 percent
- We might have smaller player base, but they are more dedicated and much more likely to be active viewers
- Again, the data for these calculations is not adequate but can give an overall impression
- This is what we need to focus on
- We have a dedicated fanbase that are avid stream viewers
- This is good news, since viewers = sponsors = game alive
- We still have an extremely healthy e-sport with a dedicated fanbase
- PvP mirror finals are without a doubt having a negative impact on viewer numbers
- However, we still got 100 thousand viewers – that's very good considering the circumstances
- Jaedong vs. Polt finals would be an entirely different thing with regards to viewer numbers
- Viewer numbers would be better if balance at top level wasn't so skewed towards protoss
- I regard this as the second lowest point of Starcraft balance wise
- Zerg dominated period during Lings of Libery was worst in my opinion
- But it ended, and we had a year with strong numbers and great game
- Viewer numbers for current leagues are great compared to past leagues
- These are leagues with production and prizes that are on a reasonable and sustainable level
- We still have great players that are having great games
- Although this is sometimes overshadowed by sound-proofing issues and mirror finals
- We should be focused by our own e-sport, and how we can make it better, instead of measuring dicks
- Balance is out of our control – we demand that Blizzard resolve it
- So far it's not working out, but there are small positive changes happening sometimes
- Recent changes to Zerg working out and producing more enjoyable games
- Maps have a huge impact on the way the game is played
- WCS map pool is dictating which maps are played at events
- Would love to see event organizers taking a few chances in order to promote map pool variety
- Interesting new maps like Habitation Station provides variation and makes the game interesting
- Players are getting paid and transported to major events
- Make sure to showcase sponsor logos etc.
- We don't have a lot of bad events – actually we have a lot of good events
- I see potential – not doom and gloom
- We have a resilient e-sport and viewer-base, and we should cherish that
Thank you very very much! Show nested quote +Starcraft was once the top e-sport in the world, but that's not the case anymore Are we really sure about this? BW was almost exclusively a Korean thing except WCG. It was big there but in the rest of the world? So you can argue that SC2 is way more marketable than BW despite its lower viewer number due to international exposition. I mean on the same argument you can say Buzkashi is super popular in the world because it is national sport in central asia. (You think Baseball is a weird sport? Nothing beats Buzkashi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buzkashi)
I think he means SC2 was the top esport for a while. I think for the first 2 years after WoL was released, SC2 was the top esport in terms of viewership and prizemoney. Now, I think SC2 is third behind LoL (clearly number 1) and Dota2.
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On March 17 2014 19:54 Micro_Jackson wrote:Show nested quote ++ Show Spoiler +On March 17 2014 07:16 nunun wrote:A condensed semi-structured overview. Please feel free to edit and improve, I might have gotten a few things wrong or missed important points. - We are often comparing ourselves to League of Legends
- Starcraft was once the top e-sport in the world, but that's not the case anymore
- Not a good idea comparing Starcraft to free to play titles distributed on Steam
- Every time Starcraft has inferior viewer numbers to other games, a lot of people scream that the game is dead
- We will lose this dick measuring contest every time since we are comparing absolute numbers
- Instead we must look at relative numbers – the conversion rate of active players to active viewers
- We don't have the appropriate data to make these comparisons, but I will do it anyways
- LoL has a conversion rate of 1.91 percent, while Starcraft has a conversion rate of 32 percent
- We might have smaller player base, but they are more dedicated and much more likely to be active viewers
- Again, the data for these calculations is not adequate but can give an overall impression
- This is what we need to focus on
- We have a dedicated fanbase that are avid stream viewers
- This is good news, since viewers = sponsors = game alive
- We still have an extremely healthy e-sport with a dedicated fanbase
- PvP mirror finals are without a doubt having a negative impact on viewer numbers
- However, we still got 100 thousand viewers – that's very good considering the circumstances
- Jaedong vs. Polt finals would be an entirely different thing with regards to viewer numbers
- Viewer numbers would be better if balance at top level wasn't so skewed towards protoss
- I regard this as the second lowest point of Starcraft balance wise
- Zerg dominated period during Lings of Libery was worst in my opinion
- But it ended, and we had a year with strong numbers and great game
- Viewer numbers for current leagues are great compared to past leagues
- These are leagues with production and prizes that are on a reasonable and sustainable level
- We still have great players that are having great games
- Although this is sometimes overshadowed by sound-proofing issues and mirror finals
- We should be focused by our own e-sport, and how we can make it better, instead of measuring dicks
- Balance is out of our control – we demand that Blizzard resolve it
- So far it's not working out, but there are small positive changes happening sometimes
- Recent changes to Zerg working out and producing more enjoyable games
- Maps have a huge impact on the way the game is played
- WCS map pool is dictating which maps are played at events
- Would love to see event organizers taking a few chances in order to promote map pool variety
- Interesting new maps like Habitation Station provides variation and makes the game interesting
- Players are getting paid and transported to major events
- Make sure to showcase sponsor logos etc.
- We don't have a lot of bad events – actually we have a lot of good events
- I see potential – not doom and gloom
- We have a resilient e-sport and viewer-base, and we should cherish that
Thank you very very much! Show nested quote +Starcraft was once the top e-sport in the world, but that's not the case anymore Are we really sure about this? BW was almost exclusively a Korean thing except WCG. It was big there but in the rest of the world? So you can argue that SC2 is way more marketable than BW despite its lower viewer number due to international exposition. I mean on the same argument you can say Buzkashi is super popular in the world because it is national sport in central asia. (You think Baseball is a weird sport? Nothing beats Buzkashi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buzkashi)
I think he is referring to the late 2010 - early 2012, when SC2 was the flagship game of MLG and there was a GSL almost every month.
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On March 17 2014 16:11 Jerubaal wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 14:30 WolfintheSheep wrote:On March 17 2014 13:19 Logo wrote:
Thanks for the overview nunun.
I think the biggest problem facing SC2 is really Blizzard which is sad. No not balance or anything like that, but Blizzard is basically stuck a generation behind in terms of e-sport support. In the day and age where you have in game streaming, in game tournament tickets, game related tournament add-ons, modern day streaming tools, team banners, other in game representation, and many more great tools for communication, social e-sports, and helping tournaments & players turn a profit... not having that stuff just puts you behind. It happened fast, the concept of e-sports has come a long way since SC2 released, but Blizzard blinked and missed the chance to stay ahead.
Far from dead... just behind. "Day and age" is a bit of an overstatement. It's basically just DotA that has everything you described, with LoL having a couple features. Not to say I don't agree with you, because DotA's entire business model and in-game systems are what every E-sport oriented game should strive for. But Valve has always been the innovative company, with others following in their footsteps. Sorry, but I just love the characterization of Valve as some great benevolent innovator while Blizzard is the evil corporation. Hell, I could describe Valve's business model as maximizing income while minimizing actual work done by riding the coattails of others' creativity. If you want to congratulate them on finding a niche, go ahead, but don't act like they're selling you hats their cropsharers made out of civic pride.
Funny, you're the only one mentioning good and evil...
DotA is still the only game where viewers can buy in-game content to support tournaments, pump money directly into tournaments, get rewards for watching tournaments in-game, etc.
No matter what you think about the games, the fact that DotA tournaments can look toward being self-sufficient, or even profitable, purely from in-game money is a very big deal.
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Thank you so much for this totalbiscuit. While I am no longer a part of the starcraft community, whenever I dip my toes in it seemed to be just very angry people lamenting that this once great thing was about to die.
Well as someone who has been using teamliquid since WoL beta, people seemed to be posting the exact same thoughts and sentiments. Now I don't care what this says about SC2's gameplay or design or whatever. All I know is that SC2 has been able to endure despite all the negativity and bold claims that the game would be gone within year. I also know that I have had some really good times watching professional SC2 over the years. The original HDH, Jinro vs Idra, Moonglade vs Moon, etc. At the end of the day, I still had FUN watching those games. I had FUN following the scene. I didn't have FUN reading 200 pages in a LR of people spouting retarded memes and claiming that the game was dead.
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Listened to this this morning, always really good insight and positivity coming from you.
Thanks for your thoughts! I agree 100% with them.
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On March 18 2014 05:13 Bswhunter wrote:
Thank you so much for this totalbiscuit. While I am no longer a part of the starcraft community, whenever I dip my toes in it seemed to be just very angry people lamenting that this once great thing was about to die.
Well as someone who has been using teamliquid since WoL beta, people seemed to be posting the exact same thoughts and sentiments. Now I don't care what this says about SC2's gameplay or design or whatever. All I know is that SC2 has been able to endure despite all the negativity and bold claims that the game would be gone within year. I also know that I have had some really good times watching professional SC2 over the years. The original HDH, Jinro vs Idra, Moonglade vs Moon, etc. At the end of the day, I still had FUN watching those games. I had FUN following the scene. I didn't have FUN reading 200 pages in a LR of people spouting retarded memes and claiming that the game was dead.
One of the funnest parts for me is reading Twitch chat. I swear they all act like babies on there, and its just so funny to read their comments XD. I genuinely mean this in a good way... All the memes, the constant greyfaces, the crazy overreactions to all sorts of jokes (and the picture of boobs) where a thousand comments flash across the screen and then certain individuals make jokes about being washed away in a sea of comments. Honestly, its better than the game sometimes. I also love how when moderators turn off subscriber-only chat thousands of people type FREEDOM!! and it turns into chaos  . Man...reminds me of Day9's chat...when it was subscriber-free and there was more spontaneity. Sigh..I miss those days
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On March 17 2014 04:42 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 04:33 Gotard wrote:
Can you post here your main points or full transcription. Some ppl can read and don't like to listen for 17 minutes when they'd read all you have said few times faster. Transcript implies I wrote this down before I said it. I didn't. I understand you don't "like to listen for 17 minutes" but I don't like to type for 30+ either, I have better shit to do.
Transcript does not imply you wrote this down, it implies that you have the mental capacity to recall a summary of what you talked about for 17 minutes all into 1-2 sentences, maybe even a couple bullet points stating what is actually in this cast so that people know what they are getting into before they listen to 17 minutes worth of talking, coz sometimes they have better shit to do.
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On March 18 2014 09:54 EJK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 04:42 TotalBiscuit wrote:On March 17 2014 04:33 Gotard wrote:
Can you post here your main points or full transcription. Some ppl can read and don't like to listen for 17 minutes when they'd read all you have said few times faster. Transcript implies I wrote this down before I said it. I didn't. I understand you don't "like to listen for 17 minutes" but I don't like to type for 30+ either, I have better shit to do. Transcript does not imply you wrote this down, it implies that you have the mental capacity to recall a summary of what you talked about for 17 minutes all into 1-2 sentences, maybe even a couple bullet points stating what is actually in this cast so that people know what they are getting into before they listen to 17 minutes worth of talking, coz sometimes they have better shit to do.
Yeah, because when someone asks for a "full transcription", they want a 2 sentence summary.
You'd think being on a forum would imply the mental capacity to read, but apparently that's too much to ask.
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On March 18 2014 10:16 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 09:54 EJK wrote:On March 17 2014 04:42 TotalBiscuit wrote:On March 17 2014 04:33 Gotard wrote:
Can you post here your main points or full transcription. Some ppl can read and don't like to listen for 17 minutes when they'd read all you have said few times faster. Transcript implies I wrote this down before I said it. I didn't. I understand you don't "like to listen for 17 minutes" but I don't like to type for 30+ either, I have better shit to do. Transcript does not imply you wrote this down, it implies that you have the mental capacity to recall a summary of what you talked about for 17 minutes all into 1-2 sentences, maybe even a couple bullet points stating what is actually in this cast so that people know what they are getting into before they listen to 17 minutes worth of talking, coz sometimes they have better shit to do. Yeah, because when someone asks for a "full transcription", they want a 2 sentence summary. You'd think being on a forum would imply the mental capacity to read, but apparently that's too much to ask.
I read "main points" and "full transcriptoin" and my mind blended together main points in a transcript lol.
And maybe i didn't read it b/c i have better shit to do
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EPT
