|
Is this the mentality behind Starcraft fan's moaning?
Or any whining for that matter.
It struck me as peculiar how people have a propensity to complain about something that bothers them, but not be quite bothered enough to actually DO something about it.
In today's comfortable world, it's rare for someone to feel threatened enough to get the burst of life-or-death motivation that takes someone from their lowest points to their highest ones. Because people are so apathetic to everything around them, they won't take action to do anything to better their current position in any meaningful way.
People complain about their boring 08:00-18:00 desk jobs, complaining about the sorry state of public transportation in their city, or that want of a girlfriend, yet they don't do anything about it.
One can quit their job and pursue a more appealing life, one can bring issues to the city council and gather support for their cause, one can grow a pair and ask that girl out, yet they don't.
They keep going along in their lives, depressed, frustrated, but I think most of all... bored.
Subconciously everyone is aware that they don't actually need to change anything in their lives to continue living. They will be constantly eating the shit of those higher above them because it is just that, comfortable, and boring.
But there is another part to the sum of peoples passivity to life, and that is believing that they as individuals can not contribute anything meaningful to the cause of improving something.
We have people who don't vote, and people half-heartedly joining groups and flaking when the time comes to truly do something.
"Someone else will do it." -- When you are on the ground trying to save a man who has just fallen and is seizing, you know that you're never supposed to ask the crowd to call an ambulance because of this mentality.
"My contribution will be insignificant." -- Kickstarters, and democratic votes have to deal with this mentality. Realize that you are a part of the sum of a movement, not the whole sum, and perhaps you will better understand your place in the movement.
Relating all of this to the now-defunct "Bring Broodwar Back" movement during WoL, and perhaps you will see why people are playing a game that simply isn't as good.
Threads come up about redesigning SC2, or analysing why BW is a better game. I am not here to argue the semantics of those conversations, but rather to analyse why those movements failed.
There was plenty of shitposting and shouting going on that BW was the superior game, and yet people played SC2.
If you really cared so much, why were there no community-wide actions taken to improve the situation?
Where were the mass petitions to redesign sc2, or where were the broodwar community event organizers? Where did the forum posters supporting change go when it came down to someone actually making change?
Why was NOTHING done at all?
A lot of talk for so little action.
+ Show Spoiler +
This thread was inspired by me playing a LOT of BW over the past two days, and realizing that the game isn't dead at all.
In fact, finding a match in BW is just as fast as finding a match in SC2 (admittedly I am just a D player, so it may be more difficult at ranks even as low as C- or higher.)
All it takes is for you to open your ports and host a lobby, and people will join.
Forgive my harsh words, but people are so pathetic that they complain they can't find BW games and never host them themselves.
To preemptively remove any thoughts of me being a BW purist, let me say that I had a much more enjoyable experience with SC2 than BW. After 30 games of BW almost in a row, I can say that I haven't experienced any strategic entertainment from the game. Where-as I could enjoy basic SC2 strategy from my very first games in bronze league. I will go through the process of exploring BW's higher level gameplay by trying to become better on my own, to see if it's better than SC2.
Unrelated to this blog, I think I should start blogging more because I am not satisfied with my ability to convey my thoughts to others. So there might be a lot more poorly written blogs by me about various topics.
 
|
ty for being a breath of fresh air in this entitled whiny community.
|
I did something about it. I quit SC2 and started playing better games.
|
Ah there's so many things wrong with this blog, but I think ToasT sums up my thoughts pretty damn well.
|
I think people dont want to even try because they know blizzard will do nothing to change their game. Which in itself is an oxymoron, because they were quick to remove the warhound during hots beta, yet left the corruptor unchanged (a unit they kept saying they will change), for example.
|
To be fair, I don't watch SC2 broadcasts. I caught the Fruitdealer royal road when it was still new, and Naniwa probes, but aside from that, the only few games I've seen involved Bisu and Jaedong.
There's a quote I heard from this asian cook on the Create tv channel here. The Mind of a Chef. The guy reminds me of a big Nujabes, which is cool. His name is David Chang.
The Mind of a Chef
He was golfing with a guy and they were talking about how technology has made it easier for anyone to cook well. So the average joe, with money, can buy fancy cooking equipment and make some pretty tasty stuff that you would have had to find a chef for 100 years ago simply because of the ease with tech.
He relates this idea to golfing. Chang says it's much easier for people to golf better these days because the "sweet spot" on the club has gotten bigger due to advanced club technology. So in the past, someone like Jack Nicklaus would have had to hit a much smaller spot to get the same results as Tiger Woods. And Chang was saying why would they change golf like that to make it easier for everyone? Isn't the point to be better than the next guy?
The white guy golfing with him, a westerner, said something like "well, it's more fun if more people can have an easier time getting the ball in the hole," basically saying the level of practice required to get decent with the golfers on your block has gotten smaller because of the tech, and that's a good thing. Then Chang said "that's a foreign concept to me." Meaning, to reduce the amount of practice to make something "more fun" was a foreign concept.
This ties into SC2 and BW, where SC2 has less practice to "get good" in terms of mechanics, pros just don't like it as much, but the average user does because he's not spending 10 hours a day so he can play like a B-teamer. He might spend 4 hours though. And SC2 is more accessible because of that, but it also gives it more of a lifespan than BW. I watched JangBi's BW broadcasts recently on snipealot2, and I had never seen an FPVOD of him before, and I can tell you that the guy struggles playing the game. He actually is not playing at a perfect level, but he gets damn close. To see someone of JangBi's skill and star level struggle even a little bit really put it into much clearer perspective for me.
BW is more of a mental clarity type of game imo, where your goal is to keep your mind as clear as possible so you can focus on switching your attention between 4 queue lines between buildings, the minimap, your new expansion, your 2-3 army groupings on different spots on the map, your observers/scans/dropships, supply and minerals. (Did my probe actually build that building or did my minerals get too low before it was warped in?) I actually believe that most pros probably just sort of gaze at the screen, keeping everything in peripheral, and just get good at reading blurry numbers or dots on the minimap without actually moving their eye to see it. I can't imagine having the kind of mental energy it would require to play 20 minutes without just gazing.
I like your idea on writing more blogs. I have several ideas for blogs. One is on hold while I catch up with a tv show, others are probably in the same vein as this. Y'know, life stuff. 
The best thing people could do is probably stand outside with a NO WAR IN SYRIA sign, to be honest.
|
Yeah I agree that the community tends to be a bit fatalistic about SC2 nowadays. Even people with good intentions who are generally a positive influence are acting a bit in this regard. For instance, when people asked Incontrol about redesigning some elements of protoss on SOTG/ITG he just responded that it's a useless conversation because Blizzard says they don't want to make drastic changes. And you can hear that Artosis/Tasteless make frequent mentions of BW elements that they miss but quickly follow it up with a forced "oh but I love what blizzard has done with SC2"-type statement. I understand that while it may be really hard to make big changes like some of those proposed, that doesn't excuse us from striving for perfection or objectively accepting that what we have could be better. If we can come to a consensus on those sorts of things then that will be the first step towards real progress.
Also, I don't consider myself a BW elitist by any means (I got into competitive gaming with SC2) and I do think that a lot of this "redesign protoss" stuff is getting blown out of proportion, but turning a blind eye to potentially legitimate problems is also a bit troubling in my opinion.
|
@a175
Has anyone given any serious effort to talking to Blizzard?
Blizzard is like a king in a castle, with additional walls and a moat around that.
We as a community have not done anything other than yell at the walls.
Someone should have tried to walk into the castle and talk to the king.
@hp.Shell
I think you might have confused this blog as my experience with BW, as opposed to a commentary about people's passivity.
I agree with David Chang, and you, my anecdote on BW is in no ways me bashing the game. Rather it's me trying to not be identified with BW purists.
|
I took it as an annoyed/frustrated perception of people and their apathy and their unwillingness to do anything. I mostly wanted to point out that this appears to be more of a Western/modern mindset. We've gotta go back to roots and perhaps some Eastern philosophy to get people to do stuff. Asian parents raise the best doctors and all that.
|
I don't think you understand how devs work and this doesn't just apply to your beloved Starcraft. In the end, communities around a game will always be there & you can whine and complain all you want but more often than not your calls go unnoticed or it just isn't a priority. They might know all about it but that doesn't mean they have time to do something about it and I have no idea what you're talking about with regards to bringing Brood War back because it's still here. The KeSPA Pro scene perhaps? Not required. There are many reasons why it's still doing well whether it be in the PCBangs or the fact we still have quite a number of tournaments. To me it does sound your trying to throw punches but you keep missing. You want to make money you play the newer game. Simple. Right now, we're back to the good old hobbyists who are playing BW and I have no problem with that.
On September 06 2013 10:14 Thaniri wrote:
@a175
Has anyone given any serious effort to talking to Blizzard?
Blizzard is like a king in a castle, with additional walls and a moat around that.
We as a community have not done anything other than yell at the walls.
Someone should have tried to walk into the castle and talk to the king.
@hp.Shell
I think you might have confused this blog as my experience with BW, as opposed to a commentary about people's passivity.
I agree with David Chang, and you, my anecdote on BW is in no ways me bashing the game. Rather it's me trying to not be identified with BW purists.
Did you somehow miss all the summits during the beta with all the communities and players or something? There are plenty of conventions man but in many cases things get lost in translation. Take Sen for example when he was trying to address problems with early Zerg scouting and the map pool. Unfortunately Dustin completely missed the point he was trying to get at because his English is poor and he even had a translator there to help him. Still, lost in translation and Dustin didn't understand what Sen was trying to get at. Look, you can talk to the Devs all you want but at the end of the day they have other things on their plate. Doesn't mean they aren't aware of certain problems but sometimes they just never get around to some stuff.
|
Don't blame the translation when Browder doesn't understand stuff. It has nothing to do with language.
|
On September 06 2013 13:05 Djzapz wrote:
Don't blame the translation when Browder doesn't understand stuff. It has nothing to do with language.
I think it's a combination of both. You remember that youtube video I'm speaking about? I remember it quite clearly. Left a very bad taste in my mouth. Regardless it's not like they would address the issue anyway because like I said in many situations the devs are aware of issues/bugs but they don't have time to fix it because they're on a deadline so they band-aid the problem (this is a little different than the Sen/Dustin situation though).
|
On September 06 2013 13:07 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2013 13:05 Djzapz wrote:
Don't blame the translation when Browder doesn't understand stuff. It has nothing to do with language. I think it's a combination of both. You remember that youtube video I'm speaking about? I remember it quite clearly. Left a very bad taste in my mouth. Regardless it's not like they would address the issue anyway because like I said in many situations the devs are aware of issues/bugs but they don't have time to fix it because they're on a deadline so they band-aid the problem (this is a little different than the Sen/Dustin situation though).
Well no I'm not familiar with specific events but I've watched a lot of his interviews and it's clear that he has trouble understanding some of the very core concepts and issues that make certain people dislike the game. I think that everyone agrees, to a certain extent, that SC2 can be better. Browder doesn't know how. They just keep the game balanced - which by itself is quite a feat but it's insufficient for me. And that's why I'm slowly drifting away from SC2. It makes me really sad actually.
|
@hp.Shell
Interestingly enough, I have been casually reading up about Eastern philosophy and culture, and I want to agree that it is more productive than it's Western counterpart.
@Starstruck
Again, I don't particularly care for BW, and I never have, that's not the idea behind the post.
I did miss players talking directly to Browder, I never knew about that, thanks for telling me.
There is strength in numbers, in all things related to people. The hierarchy of power everyone is following here is money. They get paid by their CEO, who makes silly deadlines on them, but the CEO gets paid by the player-base. If the CEO gets threatened in any way by the players, he knows he needs to make a change to keep making money.
The post is for people to realize that if they want to change something, they need to DO something.
You bring up the point that if you want to make money, you should play the newer game. I believe that this goes against the spirit of competition, which a lot of the time is directly opposite to what money wants. It's unfair through the lens of competition to see a LoL tournament giving out millions of dollars in prizes, while a BW tournament can't even compare. However, due to popularity, which is in itself due to the easiness of the game, LoL is WORTH more.
|
I think you made that abundantly clear yet you tried to take pot shots anyway. Do what exactly? When they announced the game and moved forwards with the BETA there was all sorts of back and forth going on (this doesn't necessarily mean there would be an impact). It's the same when people take up shit with the publishers when events in MMOs or other shit isn't working quite right or how about those testers and rest of the media? It happens all the time. Same story and at the end of the day, you aren't really going to get through to the devs for all sorts of reasons. That's how it is and that's how it's always been. Strength in numbers? Looks at the consumerism of Hollywood and Video gaming. Yeah strength in numbers yet we still keep the money and cycle spinning. You aren't going to change anything. As for making a living out of something. That is only but one example at the end of the day man. Look back ten years down the road and the SC2 community will still exist. Will there still be a pro scene for it? I doubt it. The kids will be playing all sorts of new stuff. Once again only one variable and the cycle repeats itself. I could make a list and they'll say similar stuff to what you were saying and then throw in the usual, "Oh the graphics are outdated yadda yadda." Spirit of competition? That's how it works and always worked in competitive gaming the publishers push the new product kids pick up the new product and viola. It's sad a lot of Koreans are retiring SC2 because they cannot make money out of BW and that's why I say they're hobbyists. It's something they have to do on the side, but you got to admire their passion. No it isn't sad that LoL can do that because once again we talking about a market with a shelf-life and games tend to be marketed towards youth. Goes back to the silly stereotypical graphic spiel and what all those silly magazines write about.
|
You have some good points, but you're also making some very wrong assumptions.
First of all, I'd go as far as to assume that many more (western) players enjoy SC2 than they could ever enjoy SC:BW. The posts about "why BW was a better game" are probably more visible than "why SC2 is a better game", but that's because people who actually enjoy SC2 are happy enough to log on and play it instead of making long-winded arguments about how evil DB is and how much they miss "real" proleague. (before anyone jumps my throat on this, I do enjoy BW more personally, but it's pretty obvious that SC2 has a much bigger playerbase in the west, because it's so much more accessible, for better or worse).
You can see the same trend if you look at something like airline reviews. If you go type "edreams review" in google right now, you'll notice a 1-star rating and what looks like a significant amount of people claiming that site is a rip-off and completely worthless. But I'd wager that if you went and booked a hundred flights with edreams right now, you'd have a fine experience with it at the very least 99 out of 100 times. In fact, if you look closer at the majority of 1-star reviews they get, it's due to customer's own dumb mistakes like providing wrong info or forgetting their passport or wanting to get a refund on a non-refundable ticket etc. It's pretty much the same thing everywhere: people like to externalize their problems and put the blame on someone else, and the ones with negative experiences tend to be the vocal ones. Lost to an all-in? Protoss is broken. Can't get past Gold? The ladder system sucks. Favourite player lost in a tournament? Flash would never lose to such a bad player in BW but SC2 is too random!! and so on.
It's true that in general, the trend is to make things more approachable, more accessible, more... easy - across pretty much everything there is in life nowadays. But with the exception of some fringe cases, is it really a bad thing? Your example about cooking is a very good one to bring into this argument. Would you like cooking to be an art that can only be mastered by those truly devoted to it? Would you like it if your only options for getting a decent steak would be paying 40$ at a restaurant or spending 3 years in a chef's academy then another 5 years as an apprentice to make it yourself? Do you think a driver's license should require a PhD in Vehicular Navigation? The same goes for games. It makes sense to make them easier and more accessible, not because it's "dumbing it down" but because the players who truly invest into games and "want to be the best" are a massive minority; the majority aren't trying to create The Perfect Steak or set the world record in Nürburgring - they just want a nice dinner and an easy commute to work. If you look through depths of automotive forums, you'll find plenty of people condemning automatic transmissions or harping about assisted parking - is that really so different about posters on TL hating on automining and MBS?
Which brings us to my next point. It's true that many people are content with keeping things the way they are even though they complain about their crappy jobs and lousy public transport, and it's true that the modern focus on comfort and accessibility of things plays a role in that. Many people go through their lives without having a major passion or great aspirations. A guy named Larry Smith put it very well in this Tedx video (spoilered):
+ Show Spoiler +
Again, it's not necessarily a bad or a novel thing, though. Five hundred years ago, not everyone was a knight in shining armor driven by his will to find the Holy Grail, either. The fact is, throughout the human history, majority of people simply don't have the will or the interest to do anything more than secure their shelter and a meal for the night. It's human nature - once the basic needs are met, most people are okay with having to deal with minor annoyances or boredom. Not everyone is a fighter, in fact, most people aren't - whether you like it or not. If anything, I'd imagine a larger percentage of population has a 'fighter' mentality nowadays and is more willing to make a stand for things they believe in, even if the said things might be silly at times.
And last but not least (and somewhat related to the above points)... it doesn't help that every modern government pretty much taught its people that voting is in fact completely irrelevant and pointless. How many times have you seen a radical change in a state's policy based purely on general population's votes? Exactly 0. It's hard to say whether it's the chicken or the egg (poorly organized government systems leading to voter apathy or voter apathy leading to poorly organized government systems), I assume it's a bit of both, but it's pretty obvious that in the grand scheme of things, voting does not change anything, which likely has an effect on how eager (not very) people are to vote in smaller, local things where they might change something, simply because they're used to the fact that whether they vote for Republicans or Democrats, whether they vote Labour or Conservative, whether they vote for Putin or Medvedev - it's all the same in the end.
|
blizzard doesn't listen. There have been numerous threads complaining about sc2 taking off mechanics from the game (just like d3, WoW) instead of adding, but the developers don't give a damn. This is why I think a eSport game should be open sourced. No one owns soccer or tennis, you don't have to pay fifa if you want to play soccer with your buddies or with custom rules.
|
On September 06 2013 10:14 Thaniri wrote:
@a175
Has anyone given any serious effort to talking to Blizzard?
Blizzard is like a king in a castle, with additional walls and a moat around that.
We as a community have not done anything other than yell at the walls.
Someone should have tried to walk into the castle and talk to the king.
Why do they want a moat? I'm surprised blizzard doesn't come down and post in this thread to encourage an open dialogue to improve the game's success.
Why not?
|
@StarStruck
And the self perpetuating cycle is what's frustrating, because change is possible, yet impossible at the same time.
@Salazarz
That's an interesting view on people as a whole.
I think it's unfortunate that most people will not live up to their potential in life, imagine how incredible the world would be if everyone was operating at full capacity?
It's so safe to say that a vote is meaningless, and it's childish imagination from me, but what if people became so sick of the political system that they voted Vermin Supreme as the U.S. president?
In a more realistic vein, there are protests and civil wars all over the world fighting for change. Brazilian protests, Syrian civil war, even Canadian environmental protests have made a large impact for better or for worse.
@DW_Unrec
That's sounds a lot like last generation games with LAN. You didn't need an organization to play the games. Hell, you didn't even have to buy any product.
@BisuEver
Because Blizzard is comfortable, they don't need to change anything. They don't need to change anything because their players don't care either.
|
On September 06 2013 09:37 vOdToasT wrote:
I did something about it. I quit SC2 and started playing better games.
I too arrived at this logical conclusion, and quickly too 
|
I have come to the conclusion that Blizzard cares only about money. If you want to see a change in SC2, a legitimate way would be to release an RTS that competes directly with SC2. Look at Dota 2 and LoL, neither riot or valve believes they can half bake their goods because if they do, they lose their customers to the other side. Blizzard can do so because they can get away with it. Why not 14cc if no-one knows how to 4 pool?
|
where were the broodwar community event organizers?
SOSPA, Gem League ThSL, TSL etc...
moron
|
On September 07 2013 04:32 Thaniri wrote:
@BisuEver
Because Blizzard is comfortable, they don't need to change anything. They don't need to change anything because their players don't care either.
I mean it's their game right? Didn't they want Starcraft 1 removed from the picture for this?
|
On September 07 2013 07:49 Chef wrote:SOSPA, Gem League ThSL, TSL etc... moron
SOSPA, Gem League were both utter marketing failures on teamliquid, they didn't get a tenth of the exposure of even a playhem it felt like.
TSL has been Star 2 for a while now.
Attacking me directly also wasn't cool.
|
I meant the TLS of course. I thought it was named the same, but I guess they changed it in case of future SC2 TSLs.
Shitting on other people's hard work isn't cool. TL is a dota2 / sc2 news site now. Everyone in the BW community knew exactly what was going on, and SOSPA TLS and other BW news gets on TL's front page because people who cared a lot about BW made a special thread for its news and administration recognized that effort.
You just don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Sorry we're not billionaires who can buy the IP rights from Blizzard and invest in a venture to remake the stable BW scene that was kept alive by an amalgamation of huge sponsors. Considering your idea of action is making a petition I didn't know you'd set your sights that high.
"people who complain but do nothing are a waste!" on that trivial point anyone can agree, but it's not insightful. Using the BW community as an example is ludicrous, and your own post is a better example of complaining about a problem but not really coming up with a solution better than raising awareness, which if that's good enough then you have nothing to complain about with sc2 balance whining either.
People contribute in their own way and as long as it's positive, no contribution is too small. I don't know the numbers of Playhem and to be honest I don't really care. There's no comparison between the problems BW has to overcome and the luxuries SC2 is currently enjoying. That SOSPA exists at all is more impressive than you realise.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
