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On February 11 2013 02:02 JimmyJRaynor wrote:excellent idea. and look at it again in one year as well. Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 01:59 kollin wrote:
Quickly! State things as facts with no evidence and do it to show Starcraft 2 is dead! this is basically the perspective of a 10 year old child. scaling back support of SC2 eSports is only one aspect of Starcraft2. Putting efforts into creating a phenomenal experience with the Expansion Pack is a way in which Blizzard is helping move SC2 forward. As far as "nothing to support it". what replaces this? http://us.battle.net/bwc/en/there is 500K in prize money and 30 Blizzard produced events.
How do you know what the event they said would be at Blizzcon will be like? Oh, you don't. So until we are more than 6 weeks into this year, stop proclaiming that the sky is falling and just be patient.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
I'm with Torte on this. Six weeks have passed and there hasn't been an overflow of information, but January/February of last year weren't the most intense weeks in Starcraft II, either - things got much more action-packed (if you want to use that word) towards the mid/end of the year.
So yes, please continue listing all the "majors" , because from what I can see nothing significant has changed in Gom's schedule for 2013 compared to 2012, MLG is doing their 32-man invitational thing for MLG for reasons that are completely different than "Blizzard is scaling back their support", and IPL6 looks to be quite the massive event.
Blizzard may not be as public with what they do for eSports as Riot Games is, but they sure as heck are doing things - you might want to wait until they release information before you say there is none to be released - they may just have decided to wait with announcing their plans.
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did i ever say "zero support" and $0 of prize money with no events all year?
On February 11 2013 01:11 Torte de Lini wrote:
This is a typical: "I don't know anything, so nothing must be happening" effect of thoughts.
I did not say 'nothing' just 'less support' it is a matter of degree not an "all or nothing".
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"The Great Blizzard eSports Experiment Is Over"
"Substantially scaled back..."
Yea...
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You're crazy if you ever though Blizzard gave half a shit about esports in the first place. Certainly they had no qualms about killing off the largest existing esports scene in BW. The only reason they subsidize SC2 tournaments is because they think it'll get you to buy their overpriced new expansions. When LotV is out, don't expect another penny from Blizzard.
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On February 11 2013 02:25 LaLuSh wrote:
"The Great Blizzard eSports Experiment Is Over"
"Substantially scaled back..."
Yea...
Yep, BWC is done and never to return. It'll be interesting to see if an MLG Open Bracket happens again.
"Substantially scaled back" does not equal 0... all this is just bickering over semantics though... you've got the point.
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Where is your source on that?
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On February 11 2013 02:36 kollin wrote:
Where is your source on that?
the lack of revenue generated from Blizzard eSports events.
however, my points were limited to 2013.
nothing like BWC for 2013.
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You said that BWC is done and never to return. Not just in 2013, but never. And there's no way you can know how much revenue was generated from Blizzard esports events, because you don't work for Blizzard and have no financial insight into their company.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On February 11 2013 02:11 JimmyJRaynor wrote:did i ever say "zero support" and $0 of prize money with no events all year? Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 01:11 Torte de Lini wrote:
This is a typical: "I don't know anything, so nothing must be happening" effect of thoughts.
I did not say 'nothing' just 'less support' it is a matter of degree not an "all or nothing".
"Blizzard's eSport experiment is over" kind of implies zero support, you know. But fair enough, I'll play along.
MLG_Adam (I believe it was Adam, any way) stated that the no open bracket-thing for Dallas was a one-off thing, caused by difficulties with things such as the beta server's stability. Nowhere was it implied that there will never be any more open brackets. As such, I'm unsure why you think there won't be - care to share your opinion on this matter?
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On February 11 2013 02:35 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 02:25 LaLuSh wrote:
"The Great Blizzard eSports Experiment Is Over"
"Substantially scaled back..."
Yea... Yep, BWC is done and never to return. It'll be interesting to see if an MLG Open Bracket happens again. "Substantially scaled back" does not equal 0... all this is just bickering over semantics though... you've got the point.
Yeah, because nothing is announced, let's nothing will happen again.
I'm fairly sure MLG will do open brackets again. (But this assumption is as baseless are yours)
I think all this lack of tournaments has to do with the fact that HotS is coming out soon, thus organizing WoL tournaments right now is not really interesting.
How do you know BWC will never return?
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On February 11 2013 02:44 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 02:11 JimmyJRaynor wrote:did i ever say "zero support" and $0 of prize money with no events all year? On February 11 2013 01:11 Torte de Lini wrote:
This is a typical: "I don't know anything, so nothing must be happening" effect of thoughts.
I did not say 'nothing' just 'less support' it is a matter of degree not an "all or nothing". "Blizzard's eSport experiment is over" kind of implies zero support, you know. But fair enough, I'll play along. MLG_Adam (I believe it was Adam, any way) stated that the no open bracket-thing for Dallas was a one-off thing, caused by difficulties with things such as the beta server's stability. Nowhere was it implied that there will never be any more open brackets. As such, I'm unsure why you think there won't be - care to share your opinion on this matter?
the experiment was BWC 2012... that's 500K ... gone.
Blizzard strongly believes in post sales support and supporting eSports events is part of that. Just don't expect the size and scale of support we received in 2012.
The main motive behind this is that Blizzard can make more money from game making than from eSports support.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On February 11 2013 02:53 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 02:44 Zealously wrote:On February 11 2013 02:11 JimmyJRaynor wrote:did i ever say "zero support" and $0 of prize money with no events all year? On February 11 2013 01:11 Torte de Lini wrote:
This is a typical: "I don't know anything, so nothing must be happening" effect of thoughts.
I did not say 'nothing' just 'less support' it is a matter of degree not an "all or nothing". "Blizzard's eSport experiment is over" kind of implies zero support, you know. But fair enough, I'll play along. MLG_Adam (I believe it was Adam, any way) stated that the no open bracket-thing for Dallas was a one-off thing, caused by difficulties with things such as the beta server's stability. Nowhere was it implied that there will never be any more open brackets. As such, I'm unsure why you think there won't be - care to share your opinion on this matter? the experiment was BWC 2012.
Which you know will never return because you have insight into the financial aspects of BWC, correct? If that's not what you're saying then I'm sorry, but that's what I get from your posts.
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I guess blogs are often a way of being able to give your opinion on things, but I think if you want to be taken seriously by people who don't already think the same way you do, you'll need to back what you're saying up with some analysis or data because it just comes off as cynical train-of-thought doom and gloom. You might have a reason for believing what you believe, but if you don't actually write it down, it just sounds like an opinion without anything supporting it. If everyone does this in a thread, the thread becomes a shouting match of opinions rehashed in slightly different ways and nothing gets done.
On February 10 2013 23:53 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Blizzard has quietly and substantially scaled back their support of SC2 eSports.
How do you know? Of course, this could be your conclusion, so then I'd expect some sort of rationale for this statement later.
We are in mid February of 2013 with no clear road map for a 2013 championship other than
"there will be a big SC2 competition at the next Blizzcon".
This far back from the last WCS we didn't have a roadmap. I think this is probably one of the more telling lines from your post--- I read it as "I dont know what is happening in the future, I'm afraid, therefore I will prepare for the worst. Oh my god, the worst is going to happen, here it is guys".
Rob Simpson, the most public member of the "eSports Team" is now gone. Blizzard has yet to announce his replacement.
Therefore there is no replacement? I don't even understand this.
If the "eSports Team" were growing Rob would have 2 replacements.
Do you know the size of the 'eSports Team'? No. Do you know if it is growing or shrinking or staying the same? no.
Ilja Rotelli left a while ago. GomTV, with Blizzard as a major sponsor, is down to five seasons of 1v1 play for 2013.
I don't think you're arguing that GomTV is dying, so what exactly are you arguing?
The makers of SC2 took a nice long run in the arena of eSports and discovered first hand its lack of profitability.
Assertion. Any evidence for this? I doubt they even have a detailed breakdown of cost/benefit of promoting esports. It's not just licensing and sales, it's also brand equity. A single WCS and its effect on future sales/brand equity is a really small data set.
And, when you are part of a company that generates almost 5 billion dollars in a quarter year profitability is a key factor in any decision. Activision-Blizzard and Blizzard proper expect mammoth revenue and profit numbers. These numbers are not forthcoming and Blizzard has quietly moved on.
This comes across as reminescent of posts by these doom-and-gloom shills for other companies that post in competitors boards, etc. Not saying you are, in fact I think you're not, but again, you're just throwing assertions around without any logical structure to them, with the general theme of 'bad things happening'. You don't know what the numbers are, I doubt even Blizzard does in as much detail as would be necessary to determine profitability.
Competitive eSports may well become a major sport on the scale of football, baseball, or basketball,
but that is a long way off.
I don't think anyone disagrees with you there.
tldr; chill out dude, things are gonna be okay. Not knowing does not imply bad, it implies unknown. I think a safe assumption is that at worst, the game will be a hell of a lot better, the hard core foundation of SC2 will grow, and support for esports will continue. I don't think there's info to conclude anything else.
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So GSL is scaling back to 5 main seasons, so far we have no idea about OSL, which could easily have 3 seasons this year. Proleague and GSTL, IPL IPTL, DH, IEM and many more other LAn tourneys that we have each year, seems to me that it looks pretty much like last year just with hopefully more OSL's.
You also have to remember that because of HotS releasing part way thru the year that some event organisers won't want to commit to announcing an event until they see how balanced etc hots is.
Besides all that, the ultimate goal for Blizzard is that they shouldn't have to put ANY of their own money in to anything except BWC/blizzcon tourneys. You could equally argue that the scene is now so healthy that blizzard can afford to scale back their investment in to esports without worrying about it crumbling.
You are making an argument from ignorance, it is akin to saying "look in the sky, there is a UFO. It must be aliens." you've gone from not knowing what it is (The U in UFO standing for unidentified) to stating exactly what it is, in one sentence. Basically you have said, someone left the company, GSL have less seasons, this means BLizzard are pulling their support of esports. When you have no evidence that is the case, in fact you have no evidence on which to make any judgement. You are arguing from ignorance.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
GSL doesn't actually have less seasons, though - 5 seasons this year, just like last year.
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The only way any of this makes any sense is if it is put forth after HOTS is released.....As of now, if I want some mongering I'd prefer fish.
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On February 11 2013 00:44 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 00:40 kafkaesque wrote:
Could we please stop calling it "sports"? It's competitive, it's challenging, it's as proper as a hobby as you can get, but for the love of god, it's no fucking sport. its more physically demanding than Curling and that is an Olympic Sport.
Hell no it isn't. I will be under the assumption that you have never tried curling, and definitely have never been a competitive curler. Matches are 2.5-3 hours each and in competition it isn't unusual to play 3 games a day. As a sweeper on the front end you basically working in 30 second spurts as hard as you can on and off for the whole game. Not the most physically demanding by any right, but still requires high level of fitness at a olympic level and a massive amount of skill and knowledge of the game.
How can anything not be more physically demanding than sitting down using a keyboard and a mouse.
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On February 11 2013 04:55 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 00:44 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On February 11 2013 00:40 kafkaesque wrote:
Could we please stop calling it "sports"? It's competitive, it's challenging, it's as proper as a hobby as you can get, but for the love of god, it's no fucking sport. its more physically demanding than Curling and that is an Olympic Sport. Hell no it isn't. I will be under the assumption that you have never tried curling, and definitely have never been a competitive curler. Matches are 2.5-3 hours each and in competition it isn't unusual to play 3 games a day. As a sweeper on the front end you basically working in 30 second spurts as hard as you can on and off for the whole game. Not the most physically demanding by any right, but still requires high level of fitness at a olympic level and a massive amount of skill and knowledge of the game. How can anything not be more physically demanding than sitting down using a keyboard and a mouse.
Look at how Mvp destroyed himself, and Taeja is in the process of doing that.
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On February 11 2013 05:02 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 04:55 Mementoss wrote:On February 11 2013 00:44 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On February 11 2013 00:40 kafkaesque wrote:
Could we please stop calling it "sports"? It's competitive, it's challenging, it's as proper as a hobby as you can get, but for the love of god, it's no fucking sport. its more physically demanding than Curling and that is an Olympic Sport. Hell no it isn't. I will be under the assumption that you have never tried curling, and definitely have never been a competitive curler. Matches are 2.5-3 hours each and in competition it isn't unusual to play 3 games a day. As a sweeper on the front end you basically working in 30 second spurts as hard as you can on and off for the whole game. Not the most physically demanding by any right, but still requires high level of fitness at a olympic level and a massive amount of skill and knowledge of the game. How can anything not be more physically demanding than sitting down using a keyboard and a mouse. Look at how Mvp destroyed himself, and Taeja is in the process of doing that.
By that case, then we should consider competitive programming and hardcore web searching as being possibly a sport because they too induce wrist related injuries? One or few people getting physical injuries shouldn't validate whether a hobby or interest is considered physically demanding.
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EPT
