EPTDoA's Post about SC2 vs LoL blah blah blah - Page 4
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Psyqo
United States401 Posts
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murphs
Ireland418 Posts
It feels like some people are trying to force feed LoL to people who just want to watch some fucking starcraft. Fuck esports, I love starcraft and only starcraft. | ||
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MrF
United States320 Posts
On February 05 2013 01:53 son1dow wrote: It's refined in the sense that it's easier for casual players. That's great. I never spoke about that however, so get your straw man arguments out of here. Of course it does. But it also does in bowling. My argument is that once you remove all the nearly-capped skills in LoL, it comes down to just a few things. Much less than in say, Quake. Lack of mechanical skill is a large, glaring part of that you couldn't ever deny, so I'm not sure how you can even argue this. Edit: Except the chess player thinks the knowledge through due to the incredibly high variation, so that's not pure knowledge. If you want to compare LoL's knowledge to chess, compare it to the first moves. And I fully agree, the first moves in chess aren't very skillful really. Wow, your "arguments" are just thinly veiled insults, pure opinion or blatant lies, Im not going to even give your post a point by point bashing because it would be a waste of my time as you obviously aren't going to change your opinion. In fact i don't even know why I am responding as you clearly have no real idea of the truth and no real desire to find it. A note; you are welcome to your opinion but don't tell me I am stupid unskilled hypocrite for disagreeing with you, which you did in your post if you are wondering. Edit I am sorry I even visited this thread most of these posts are just one person bashing a game they don't like and I almost got sucked in because of this joker son1dow. GLHF LONG LIVE ESPORTS! | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
I see this community trying to take pot shots at LoL at the time. It's common ground in these parts and it doesn't bother me either. I definitely share your sentiments on pro gaming and unfortunately you will always have those clowns. If this blog gets to maybe 1 or 2 people. I'd say you've done your job. | ||
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Wolf
Korea (South)3290 Posts
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hoodcash
5 Posts
On February 05 2013 01:34 son1dow wrote: I'll try to keep this brief and concise. 1) Riot's strategy is dangerous to esports. It would be blatantly hypocritical to deny that. This is enough reason to hate on the game, period. This defeats any argument about respecting other games. 2) LoL is easy. a) It's a shamelessly dumbed down version of DotA, that's very obvious. How is this not sad? b) It's difficulty is based largely on pure knowledge, which is obviously neither very impressive nor very valuable. Pretty much all good sports and games are the opposite of that. c) It very mechanically easy. d) It has little skills involved in general. This makes the game shallow. e) When there are so few skills, they don't mesh and produce more complicated gameplay. This is the most important part. This is something you seem to have failed to grasp entirely - mechanical skill IS important because in some games like QuakeWorld, it makes teamplay and other skills just that much harder, varied and important, increasing the difficulty of the game exponentially. If a game is teamwork only, it's teamwork will only be more important, not more difficult. f) It promotes a > b > c > a gameplay. It's why players play multiple champions - it's easy enough to learn a bunch of them because champion advantage is more important than the negligible skill advantage. The argument we're having seems to be a little like bowling vs. football - you can't deny that in bowling, aim constitutes a larger percentage of the game, yet... Isn't it obvious which takes more skill? [Barring the popularity, to which this comparison doesn't apply]. 3) It delegitimizes esports in general. How would you like to have bowling and football on the same stage? At this point, respecting the bowling players and spectators might be secondary. Why should anyone have respect for players that do things which are... not that extraordinary, after all? 4) This whole idea supports games getting easier. If we bring esports to mainstream by making it casual... Doesn't that defeat the purpose? A couple of notes. I. You are free to enjoy LoL, I don't blame you. Just don't call it what it isn't. And don't force anyone to stop supporting other (better competitively  ) games.II. If anyone cares about competitive gaming, they SHOULD be free to discuss what is good for an esport. This is undeniable. I'm tired of seeing gaming veterans getting lumped in with mindless bashers by most major. No, being positive isn't the only thing anyone should do. That would be, frankly, stupid. I made an account just to rant after seeing this post, just a bit about myself. I've played DotA + DotA2 for 10 years now, I've hit 2.2k elo in LoL, I've been Masters since season 2 and Diamond in season 1. I've watched all 3 games on a competitive level for quite some time as well. 1) Riot's strategy is dangerous to esports. It would be blatantly hypocritical to deny that. This is enough reason to hate on the game, period. This defeats any argument about respecting other games. What is riot's strategy? Making it such that progamers have an actual salary? So the non-MC/MVP/Nestea/Stephanos/Non-eg can live conformable without having to pull rabbits out of their asses on their streams 24/7? 2) LoL is easy. a) It's a shamelessly dumbed down version of DotA, that's very obvious. How is this not sad? b) It's difficulty is based largely on pure knowledge, which is obviously neither very impressive nor very valuable. Pretty much all good sports and games are the opposite of that. c) It very mechanically easy. d) It has little skills involved in general. This makes the game shallow. e) When there are so few skills, they don't mesh and produce more complicated gameplay. This is the most important part. This is something you seem to have failed to grasp entirely - mechanical skill IS important because in some games like QuakeWorld, it makes teamplay and other skills just that much harder, varied and important, increasing the difficulty of the game exponentially. If a game is teamwork only, it's teamwork will only be more important, not more difficult. Easy is a term thrown around a lot with LoL. Yes it's easy at first. You buy items and take the enemy base. So is starcraft at first, you gather minerals and make marines/lings/lots and attack the enemy. It's the higher up game-play that matters. Regarding the "so few skills part", have you ever thought about the difference of LoL vs DotA2 skills? Mana is less of an issue in LoL so you can spam more. At the same time, some DotA2 skills are STUPIDLY GAME-ENDING/BROKEN. 1-6 Enig got ult on 4 ppl? GG. 1-10 MagSven combo? GG. Enemy has a BF/Manta AM? GG splitpush. Same 15-20 champion pool is picked at the highest level. Sometimes you get to see a Dendi Pudge, but it gets boring see a Lina/Rubick/AM/Mag/Luna/TS/SK/etc every single game. Tl;dr, DotA2 champion skills win the game, LoL map objectives and gold win the game. f) It promotes a > b > c > a gameplay. It's why players play multiple champions - it's easy enough to learn a bunch of them because champion advantage is more important than the negligible skill advantage. The argument we're having seems to be a little like bowling vs. football - you can't deny that in bowling, aim constitutes a larger percentage of the game, yet... Isn't it obvious which takes more skill? [Barring the popularity, to which this comparison doesn't apply]. Yes Banelines > Marines too, o wait. What you learn going up the elo is that you learn to play b so well that your b beats their a and stomps their c. It's not rock paper scissors here. Or else the game would be decided at champion select and everyone would go select another set of champions in the next game instead of wasting 40-60 minutes. 3) It delegitimizes esports in general. How would you like to have bowling and football on the same stage? At this point, respecting the bowling players and spectators might be secondary. Why should anyone have respect for players that do things which are... not that extraordinary, after all? Delegitimizes? Seems like the amount of people lol's drawn in is beating the NHL, but idk. If we are talking about difficulty here, then ESPN would have 24/7 coverage on .... boxing. But that's not the case is it. It's about popularity, simple as that. Think about football. Randy Moss runs really fast and catches the ball. Ray Rice puts his head down and runs downfield. In your words, that would be League. Simple, popular, and money is thrown at it. So yes, people want to see football over boxing. TL;DR: League isn't as easy as you think, when you hit Diamond Elo come say that. People want to watch football over boxing. etc. | ||
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SolidMustard
France1515 Posts
On February 05 2013 02:38 murphs wrote: It's totally ok to like SC2 and not care about other esports. It feels like some people are trying to force feed LoL to people who just want to watch some fucking starcraft. Fuck esports, I love starcraft and only starcraft. You can love starcraft and only starcraft without hating on other games, though, can't you? | ||
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kafkaesque
Germany2006 Posts
On February 05 2013 02:39 StarStruck wrote: I don't like your analogy of LoL is like American Idol and SC2 is like Breaking Bad. I get what you're trying to say DoA, but keep in mind one is a reality show on network television whereas the other is a HBO drama. In context, network versus cable/specialty channels is a good comparison but when you mix two different genres. I think you can do better. Finding a propoer analogy is like... well like... you know... | ||
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son1dow
Lithuania322 Posts
On February 05 2013 02:36 Nashtak wrote: You just got to read point 1 to know you are in for a treat. I'm sorry, you disagree with that? Are you aware of what Riot tried to pull off with professional teams, for example? | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On February 05 2013 02:40 Wolf wrote: I want to know why he disapprove's of this quote Wolf. Do tell.  I think DoA just picked the first two things that popped up in his head. | ||
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murphs
Ireland418 Posts
On February 05 2013 02:42 SolidMustard wrote: You can love starcraft and only starcraft without hating on other games, though, can't you? Yes, people who mindlessly bash LoL are fucking silly. Makes everyone look bad. | ||
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SolidMustard
France1515 Posts
On February 05 2013 02:43 son1dow wrote: I'm sorry, you disagree with that? Are you aware of what Riot tried to pull off with professional teams, for example? Dude, you can't say "Riot's strategy is dangerous to esports. It would be blatantly hypocritical to deny that" without any kind of further justification, and expect people to take you seriously. Riot is the main company making esports grow lately as far as I know, so if you think you have a point, you're going to need to explain it | ||
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MrF
United States320 Posts
On February 05 2013 02:42 kafkaesque wrote: Finding a propoer analogy is like... well like... you know... ROLF you win the thread, thanks for making me laugh after having all faith in humanity stripped by a few sentences from some ignoramuses. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On February 05 2013 02:48 MrF wrote: ROLF you win the thread, thanks for making me laugh after having all faith in humanity stripped by a few sentences from some ignoramuses. This guy thinks he's smart. | ||
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CrazyF1r3f0x
United States2120 Posts
You're just upset because you are an ignoramus. | ||
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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hoodcash
5 Posts
On February 05 2013 02:48 SolidMustard wrote: Dude, you can't say "Riot's strategy is dangerous to esports. It would be blatantly hypocritical to deny that" without any kind of further justification, and expect people to take you seriously. Riot is the main company making esports grow lately as far as I know, so if you think you have a point, you're going to need to explain it He's going off the supposed rumor that Riot only lets teams choose between a LoL and Dota2 team. Note the rumor part. Last I checked EG still has their dota2 team? Even if they did, well you can't work for Lockheed and Boeing at the same time, can you. It's a business Or he is referring to the part where Riot banned some players from competitive play after they were reported in the top 3% of toxic players, a ban that in my opinion was fully justified as I've played with some of them. tl;dr, dota2 elitist whose my way or the highway prolly leads to raging in game as well with his narrow outlook in life. Nothing to see here | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On February 05 2013 02:52 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote: You're just upset because you are an ignoramus. I don't care what people think of me over the internet. Anyone who thinks they're smart aren't. We all do stupid nonsensical things in life and anyone who would tell you differently is a liar. With that said, he wants to try to call me out so he's fair game in my book. | ||
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duoform
Spain5180 Posts
On February 05 2013 02:55 hoodcash wrote: He's going off the supposed rumor that Riot only lets teams choose between a LoL and Dota2 team. Note the rumor part. Last I checked EG still has their dota2 team? Even if they did, well you can't work for Lockheed and Boeing at the same time, can you. It's a business Or he is referring to the part where Riot banned some players from competitive play after they were reported in the top 3% of toxic players, a ban that in my opinion was fully justified as I've played with some of them. tl;dr, dota2 elitist whose my way or the highway prolly leads to raging in game as well with his narrow outlook in life. Nothing to see here Creates a "throwaway" count on TL making it sound like he's is on reddit. Comes here saying he played DotA for 10 years and all their heroes are unbalanced and shit. Praising Riot saying the rumors are false when their own VP of eSports confirmed it... and you wanna people to take you seriously? Grow up son! Next time don't talk shit without even knowing what you saying. http://gamespot.com/news/riot-vp-of-esports-haters-gonna-hate-6397683 | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On February 05 2013 01:34 son1dow wrote: I'll try to keep this brief and concise. 1) Riot's strategy is dangerous to esports. It would be blatantly hypocritical to deny that. This is enough reason to hate on the game, period. This defeats any argument about respecting other games. 2) LoL is easy. a) It's a shamelessly dumbed down version of DotA, that's very obvious. How is this not sad? b) It's difficulty is based largely on pure knowledge, which is obviously neither very impressive nor very valuable. Pretty much all good sports and games are the opposite of that. c) It very mechanically easy. d) It has little skills involved in general. This makes the game shallow. e) When there are so few skills, they don't mesh and produce more complicated gameplay. This is the most important part. This is something you seem to have failed to grasp entirely - mechanical skill IS important because in some games like QuakeWorld, it makes teamplay and other skills just that much harder, varied and important, increasing the difficulty of the game exponentially. If a game is teamwork only, it's teamwork will only be more important, not more difficult. f) It promotes a > b > c > a gameplay. It's why players play multiple champions - it's easy enough to learn a bunch of them because champion advantage is more important than the negligible skill advantage. The argument we're having seems to be a little like bowling vs. football - you can't deny that in bowling, aim constitutes a larger percentage of the game, yet... Isn't it obvious which takes more skill? [Barring the popularity, to which this comparison doesn't apply]. 3) It delegitimizes esports in general. How would you like to have bowling and football on the same stage? At this point, respecting the bowling players and spectators might be secondary. Why should anyone have respect for players that do things which are... not that extraordinary, after all? 4) This whole idea supports games getting easier. If we bring esports to mainstream by making it casual... Doesn't that defeat the purpose? A couple of notes. I. You are free to enjoy LoL, I don't blame you. Just don't call it what it isn't. And don't force anyone to stop supporting other (better competitively ) games.II. If anyone cares about competitive gaming, they SHOULD be free to discuss what is good for an esport. This is undeniable. I'm tired of seeing gaming veterans getting lumped in with mindless bashers by most major. No, being positive isn't the only thing anyone should do. That would be, frankly, stupid. You should really just not talk at all. You must clearly be top 5 diamond to be able to throw out such bold statements(hint you arent, and like i said earlier shouldn't talk) | ||
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