EPTOn February 04 2013 21:21 kafkaesque wrote:
DoA, please come back to DOTA2
Sincerely,
Everyone
DoA, please come back to DOTA2
Sincerely,
Everyone
You were incredibly funny <3
DoA's Post about SC2 vs LoL blah blah blah - Page 6
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
You were incredibly funny <3 | ||
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TheDougler
Canada8309 Posts
On February 05 2013 03:33 Antyee wrote: Do NOT use mobafire. Most of the builds there are outdated and/or simply terrible. Well to each his own. Still, I must say that the Brand build there has been working wonders for me. | ||
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
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lyrlian
Netherlands257 Posts
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Takkara
United States2503 Posts
On February 05 2013 01:06 Jibba wrote: To the outside, we are the ESPORTS community. That's where the two should be aligned and supportive. Internally, there's subcommunities and that's where there's bickering, because there's a perceived limited amount of resources and some jealousy. I don't think there's anything wrong with that internal bickering, until it impacts external perceptions (which it probably doesn't.) If CoD8: MWBLOPS7x becomes the next huge thing, I have no doubt that LoL and SC2 fans will come together against that just as DotA2 and SC2 fans currently come together against LoL. And if an external force such as politicians start saying CoD8: MWBLOPS7x is too violent, then CoD8: MWBLOPS7x, DotA2, LoL and SC2 fans will come together against that. That's why I think the forced hand holding is stupid. It all depends on the framing and at the individual game level, conflict and rivalry is natural, just as in a family. There's a line you shouldn't cross like upsetting casters/players (because you shouldn't be trying to upset anyone) but people bickering online can be a sign of health. In the case of LoL and SC2, they might be different enough that it's easy to accept both (although again, there's the limited resources thing,) but it seems clear that DotA2 and LoL are in direct competition and it's only natural to want your preferred game to win and the other to lose. We can appreciate Wilhelm Kempff and BB King as different entities, but if they're touring the same cities at the same time and BB King played the biggest venues and gets the best record contracts, and Wilhelm Kempff was forced to play dueling pianos for tips at a bar, obviously Kempff (or his corpse) and his fans would not be favorable to that arrangement. It's easy for King, having the better arrangement, to say, "we should get along." I don't know. I don't know why I would be against CoD8:MWBLOPS7x. Why should I? When I first became away of the ESPORTS scene via the announcement of the SC2 beta and the BW Day[9] Dailies, I started watching a ton of stuff in the space. I found out about djWheat and started watching Lo3 and Epileptic Gaming every week. After hearing Wheat and Slasher talk about Slasher being persona non grata at Quake Con, I got interested enough to watch my first Quake matches. I loved them. Then, I heard people talking about EVO, so I tuned into some of that. I didn't really understand what I was seeing, but I recognize hype. I don't even remember fully which fighting game it was. One of the SF ones, I think. Or maybe MvC. But I enjoyed both. Then I saw some Blazblue one day and found that interesting. I had been watching some MK9 as well. Now, I watch all sorts of computer gaming (not just ESPORTS) - from Minecraft to Speed Runs to Let's Plays to tournaments to reviews, etc. I cancelled cable TV and consume exclusively YouTube and stream content now. Every time I watched more ESPORTS shows it was because I listened to prominent personalities talk about their games and I found a way to watch them. Some I enjoyed, some I didn't. Some I'll watch occasionally if I notice they are on, some I watch religiously and never miss, and some I will never watch again because I don't like them. I tuned into these different shows in the first place because the personalities that I respected took the time to talk about these new games, tell people to try out new experiences and genres, and just get lost in the amazing era of streaming and competitive gaming. Honestly, if djWheat spent his time picking favorites and shitting on different genres instead of being the gaming ambassador that he is, I probably wouldn't watch nearly as much content as I do now and I would not be aware of nearly as many cool events and gaming communities as I am. I think this is what DoA means. Prominent personalities can try to tear others down and "protect their product" or they can be ambassadors and realize that ESPORTS is not zero sum. | ||
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laerteis
United States78 Posts
Honestly, if djWheat spent his time picking favorites and shitting on different genres instead of being the gaming ambassador that he is, I probably wouldn't watch nearly as much content as I do now and I would not be aware of nearly as many cool events and gaming communities as I am. djWheat is the person who made the Breaking Bad/American Idol analogy referenced in the OP, iirc. I understood him to mean that SC2 was higher quality, but LOL had larger appeal. | ||
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Scio
Germany522 Posts
- Riot Games Director of Community Relations Steve "Pendragon" Mescon - Riot paying tournament organisers to not pick up hon/dota 2 and my favourite: - Riot keeps advertising their game as an esport when it clearly isnt. From the very getgo their design philosphy was to make the game easy to get into and eliminate the anti-fun factors (and they follow that philosophy to this day). The moment they noticed that LoL could be become a very popular eSport they pumped money into it to gain overall popularity for their game, which worked out very well for them. But that doesnt change the fact that LoL is a dumbed down version of DotA. LoL is a great game imo (i played 700 games and had loads of fun), but its a terrible eSport. Its boring to watch (personal opinion ofc) and the amount of mechanical skill you need to have is laughable. The skillcap (not only mechanical) is ridiculously low for an eSport which is the main reason any pro player that wants to switch games will head to LoL because you can go pro in a fraction of the time you would have to invest to get good at dota or sc2. (also loads of money....take it while it lasts i guess) LoLs eSport scene just seems like a giant marketing campaign from riot. The moment they (or more like their parent company) decide that its not worth it anymore (which might "never" happen) the scene is dead. If they change their design philosophy and actually consider putting in champions/mechanics that have a higher skillcap im the first to change my mind. Until then i treat it as what it is, which is a casual game masked as an eSport just to gain more moniez. By that im not saying Riot doesnt deserve money for their work, they should just stop pretending that their game is material for a competitive scene when its not. Dont hate LoL the game, hate LoL the esport and the pretentious company behind it. My 2cents | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
DOTA is more like Total Annihilation, it does a fuckload of things and can create really interesting scenarios, but like TA it's less accessible because of that. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On February 05 2013 04:01 Salazarz wrote: Funniest thing is, SC2 to Broodwar is pretty much what LoL is to original DotA (or worse); yet the very same people who shit on LoL being 'too easy' and 'too casual' are the same people who whine about BW 'elitists' whenever anyone mentions the reduced mechanical requirements of SC2 compared to its predecessor or whatever. SC2 and LoL, both unfortunate (tragic?) "successors" to great games? I like your analogy. Good thing we have Dota 2 to fix the LoL debacle. Feel bad for broodwar fans myself, but I can't make blizzard into the company it was 15 years ago, more's the pity. Okay thats a bit tongue in cheek but I really do feel that SC2 isn't really a great successor to BW, and LoL is pretty horrific when compared to Dota. I was never really invested in brood war OR dota1, but it isn't hard to see which games are better in their respective genres. I won't compare SC2 to LoL because they are different genres, but it's fairly telling that failed sc2 players go to LoL where they can succeed... And Doa, Riot has shown many many times that they are a scumbag company, with no interest in any "e-sport" that isn't league. I have no problems hating on them or their game. It isn't like we all need to have a hug-fest for games I care about to succeed. | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
On February 05 2013 04:17 Sn0_Man wrote: SC2 and LoL, both unfortunate (tragic?) "successors" to great games? I like your analogy. Good thing we have Dota 2 to fix the LoL debacle. Feel bad for broodwar fans myself, but I can't make blizzard into the company it was 15 years ago, more's the pity. Okay thats a bit tongue in cheek but I really do feel that SC2 isn't really a great successor to BW, and LoL is pretty horrific when compared to Dota. I was never really invested in brood war OR dota1, but it isn't hard to see which games are better in their respective genres. I won't compare SC2 to LoL because they are different genres, but it's fairly telling that failed sc2 players go to LoL where they can succeed... And Doa, Riot has shown many many times that they are a scumbag company, with no interest in any "e-sport" that isn't league. I have no problems hating on them or their game. It isn't like we all need to have a hug-fest for games I care about to succeed. My analogy is better, on most gaming forums there's tons of grognards who hate Brood War for being just a "click-fest with no strategy" and prefer AOE, SupCom, TA, etc. and they use pretty much the same arguments as DotA fans who hate on LoL (though obviously DotA fans incorporate mechanics into their argument as well, non-BW RTS fans concede that point) | ||
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Takkara
United States2503 Posts
On February 05 2013 04:16 laerteis wrote: djWheat is the person who made the Breaking Bad/American Idol analogy referenced in the OP, iirc. I understood him to mean that SC2 was higher quality, but LOL had larger appeal. You're right, he did, and I think it was a bad choice of word for him. But, he also has been an MC at the S2 Championships, plays LoL himself, talks in an informed way about LoL tournaments and teams, and brings LoL pros (like xPeke last week) on for interviews. One possibly poorly worded analogy does not offset all the other great things he has done for the League of Legends community in addition to other communities. | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On February 05 2013 04:17 Sn0_Man wrote: SC2 and LoL, both unfortunate (tragic?) "successors" to great games? I like your analogy. Good thing we have Dota 2 to fix the LoL debacle. Feel bad for broodwar fans myself, but I can't make blizzard into the company it was 15 years ago, more's the pity. Okay thats a bit tongue in cheek but I really do feel that SC2 isn't really a great successor to BW, and LoL is pretty horrific when compared to Dota. I was never really invested in brood war OR dota1, but it isn't hard to see which games are better in their respective genres. I won't compare SC2 to LoL because they are different genres, but it's fairly telling that failed sc2 players go to LoL where they can succeed... And Doa, Riot has shown many many times that they are a scumbag company, with no interest in any "e-sport" that isn't league. I have no problems hating on them or their game. It isn't like we all need to have a hug-fest for games I care about to succeed. I dont think anyone believes SC2 is a worthy successor to BW at this point. And why should Riot be interested in other ESPORTS? they started out as a small company, and now they havet he most played game in the world. Why would they care about other ESPORTS? In the end it's all about money | ||
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
And also, I kind of dislike Riot for the shit they pulled past years. Not that I like blizzard much lately, but not nearly as much as I dislike Riot. There is also the "my favorite football club" aspect. Supporters always bash opponent clubs. In E-sports there is some player bashing, but not on the scale as the hate football supporters can have for rival clubs. Maybe since football games are team vs team and in SC2, during a game it is 1 vs 1. Yes players are usually members of a team but still playing as individuals. So bashing them will get personal fast. Instead we seem to prefer to bash other games. You see the same in the arpg scene between diablo3 and path of exile communites. Also, there are quite a few players who left our favorite game for Lol, that never goes well with supporters either. And all that other team bashing never hurt football getting big though, so why would it hurt E-sports. | ||
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MiteCrow
Ireland38 Posts
I for one am glad that you have decided to speak up against these little 'dig's' and responding by endeavoring to give them a better understanding of the game instead of entering another pointless argument. Your stance on this is the way forward and I respect that you care enough to speak up on this. Thank you keep up the good work in eSports in general. | ||
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Martijn
Netherlands1219 Posts
On February 05 2013 04:16 Scio wrote: My personal list of reasons to hate Riot: - Riot Games Director of Community Relations Steve "Pendragon" Mescon I like Pendragon actually.. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On February 05 2013 04:24 arb wrote: I dont think anyone believes SC2 is a worthy successor to BW at this point. Ya fair but you have to be careful how you word posts that demean SC2 on this site. On February 05 2013 04:21 jalstar wrote: My analogy is better, on most gaming forums there's tons of grognards who hate Brood War for being just a "click-fest with no strategy" and prefer AOE, SupCom, TA, etc. and they use pretty much the same arguments as DotA fans who hate on LoL (though obviously DotA fans incorporate mechanics into their argument as well, non-BW RTS fans concede that point) Nice way to start a discussion post... Either way, League is to dota what SC2 is to broodwar. Thats my analogy and I'm sticking with it. The "newer" games are dumbed down, mechanically simple snoozefests, while the older games were diamonds in the rough, masterpieces that happened almost by mistake. Mechanically challenging, infinitely replayable, deep variance in possible gameplay. Trying to bring some random garbage like supreme commander into it (that game wasn't interesting at all, much less endlessly playable) doesn't make a ton of sense to me, but I suppose everybody sees things differently. | ||
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SolidMustard
France1515 Posts
On February 05 2013 04:41 Sn0_Man wrote: Ya fair but you have to be careful how you word posts that demean SC2 on this site. Nice way to start a discussion post... Either way, League is to dota what SC2 is to broodwar. Thats my analogy and I'm sticking with it. The "newer" games are dumbed down, mechanically simple snoozefests, while the older games were diamonds in the rough, masterpieces that happened almost by mistake. Mechanically challenging, infinitely replayable, deep variance in possible gameplay. Trying to bring some random garbage like supreme commander into it (that game wasn't interesting at all, much less endlessly playable) doesn't make a ton of sense to me, but I suppose everybody sees things differently. Nostalgia can make you say/think pretty stupid things sometimes. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On February 05 2013 04:46 SolidMustard wrote: Nostalgia can make you say/think pretty stupid things sometimes. I certainly don't play BroodWar anymore, but it was the best RTS game of it's time, and a fantastic esport. I still watch snipealot's stream. I'm well aware of the limitations it was under and the need for a successor. That doesn't make SC2 a good game... The exact same goes for Dota 1. I don't play it anymore, and I'm aware that it has lots of peripheral issues that detracted from gameplay and that League addressed. That doesn't make league a good game... (note that Dota 2 is addressing the issues that I care about so yay). I don't play N64 anymore, but that doesn't stop me from believing that mariokart64 was the best mariokart, period. Its personal preference. Old age and engine limitations don't make a game bad. | ||
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hoodcash
5 Posts
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
Morello is the true source of annoyance. | ||
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