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nomyx
United States2205 Posts
On February 05 2013 01:46 Kipsate wrote: Not suprisingly these blogs devolve into lol vs dota vs sc2 arguments very quickly. Considering it started as such, I'm not personally surprised. One of the bigger reasons I dislike league is pendragon. That guy burned us pretty bad a few years ago and it's sickening to see the kind of worship he's getting. | ||
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Martijn
Netherlands1219 Posts
On February 05 2013 06:17 nomyx wrote: Considering it started as such, I'm not personally surprised. One of the bigger reasons I dislike league is pendragon. That guy burned us pretty bad a few years ago and it's sickening to see the kind of worship he's getting. Referring to the dota-allstars site? Pendragon has always been good people in my personal experience, both ingame and out. He envisioned the project that created LoL even back when we played dota and put a lot of effort and work into making it successful. | ||
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hoodcash
5 Posts
On February 05 2013 06:17 nomyx wrote: Considering it started as such, I'm not personally surprised. One of the bigger reasons I dislike league is pendragon. That guy burned us pretty bad a few years ago and it's sickening to see the kind of worship he's getting. It's silly to say you hate a game because of a person working in the company. It's like saying SC2 is dumb b/c Blizz put a RMAH in d3. | ||
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tehNILE
United Kingdom1 Post
On February 05 2013 00:05 nomyx wrote: SC2, if you mess up you know it's your fault. Whether it's a micro problem, scouting problem, macro problem, ect, it's on you to fix it. Same in LoL, unless you took a risk which you decided was worth it, it's your fault and this is how you learn and improve at the game. People who don't do this will always stay bad. On February 04 2013 23:46 Irre wrote: SC2 is never going to have that mass appeal that a less complex, more accessible game like LoL would have. I think most of the hate is stemming from frustration that Blizzard has massively dropped the ball, and RIOT has run with it. We saw ourselves as the leader of Esports, the top dog, and that has basically evaporated in like a year. I too, think Blizzard dropped the ball (more like kicked the ball out and attempted to retrieve another one to resolve the problem), I know too Blizzard is a frustrating company and I want nothing to do with companies such as these. It's no surprise that many people who have posted in this topic simply don't have much knowledge of LoL (a great example of this is a person in this thread talking about itemization as a form of mind-games - which would most likely cost you the game on a pro level - referring to it as a lack of depth) or how it works or compares to DoTA (it's completely different from LoL) which is okay especially if they find the game boring. I found SC2 very boring to play which is why I don't play it or understand it in great depth, but I don't create mis-construed arguments about skill or "depth" or compare it to LoL or AoE. Many are comparing a RTS to a "MOBA" which I believe is because people consider certain skills higher skill-wise which I can understand and don't disagree but most of these people don't really understand LoL in-depth and their opinion is biased. I can understand people hating Pendragon, he did something very bad and from personal experience it sucks but I think many people are just automatically hating Riot/LoL for something one person did. When you have religious nutjobs preaching their crap, trying to convert you and spreading the word of god, that's kinda what it feels like when part of the SC2/dota community trash-talks other games, you wanna kick them in the nuts and tell them to stop being sheep. | ||
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nomyx
United States2205 Posts
On February 05 2013 06:25 hoodcash wrote: It's silly to say you hate a game because of a person working in the company. It's like saying SC2 is dumb b/c Blizz put a RMAH in d3. Of course, that's why I already outline what I dislike about it earlier in this thread. On February 05 2013 06:23 Martijn wrote: Referring to the dota-allstars site? Pendragon has always been good people in my personal experience, both ingame and out. He envisioned the project that created LoL even back when we played dota and put a lot of effort and work into making it successful. Yes. Imagine if Nazgul shut down all of team liquid without a moment's notice (I'm not saying he would, just speaking hypothetically). All this content gone. User created guides, replays from SC2 / BW, decade olds threads. Imagine if all that was delete and all that was left was a link taking you to a new game that he helped make, which for the sake of conversation let's assume it was a "less than stellar" rip off of SC2. | ||
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DonKey_
Liechtenstein1356 Posts
On February 05 2013 06:12 Martijn wrote: I don't even.. "he said she said", because them actually attaching the email or whichever actually makes a difference? These were clear statements made by the teams. Dignitas isn't worth mentioning because how can Dignitas comment on something Riot told EG and Complexity? I'm sure Riot didn't tell Dignitas the same thing, but that has nothing to do with what Riot told EG and Complexity. All Dignitas said was that Riot didn't tell Dignitas that they needed to be (moba-)exclusive to LoL to compete in S3. They certainly told EG and Complexity. You're fogging up the issue with irrelevant points. This is not vague, this is not unclear, this is 2 of the biggest teams in esports saying "hey, this happened". If you want a record of Scoots saying what he did, I'm sure it's readily available if you dig a bit. It was a big deal, it was a huge deal, which is why Riot first denied it and then when they got caught deleted statements where they got denied it and tried to pawn it off as a miscommunication. "Woops, did we say your organisation? Nah, clearly not what we meant." Hell, here's Kennigit confirming that Riot signed exclusivity agreements with tournament organizers as well as a bonus. http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/z2wux/team_liquid_officially_covering_dota_2/c611bb4 I fully realize I generally get more information than a random Joe when it comes to esports, but you do not have to be an insider to know that this happened. I don't undrstand why you are reffering me to statements of people saying this is true. The statements you show me don't provide evidence, they provide more baseless claims. That doesn't help argue your point. If you are not familiar with the term "he said she said" it basicly means: Riot and EG/Complexity both say different things but neither of them can support their claims with evidence. Thing is it's up to EG/Complexity to prove Riot guilty not Riot to prove themselves innocent as they are not the ones making any claims. You say Dignitas isn't worth mentioning?. They are a team who would have had both a Dota2 division and LoL division so why are they not worth mentioning? The claims that were made were that ALL teams with Dota2 divs and LoL divs would have to become LoL only to be able to compete in S3. So they are most definately worth mentioning. "It was a big deal, it was a huge deal" Then why doesn't anyone claiming what you are claiming have any evidence. I'm sorry I don't have "faith" in you guys, but the impact of statements you are making require there to be evidence to prove them. | ||
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Takkara
United States2503 Posts
On February 05 2013 06:12 Martijn wrote: As for the actual topic. I would love for the SC2 community to get along with the LoL community and vice versa. History just shows that these kind of rivalries are part of esports. It's been that way since the earliest days of esports, quake vs counterstrike, and has had many iterations since. DoAs noble intentions aside, no logical or rational argument can put this to an end. It's honestly just something we should let be. If people want to express their loyalty to their franchise of choice in a toxic matter, well, that sucks. Sadly we can't stop them. And honestly, bringing it up just tends to fan the flames. I think DoA fully realizes that the communities will always bicker about who is better. That's what all communities do. However, the personalities and the leaders should NOT be bickering like that. They should be the ones who realize their responsibility to not start shit between games and try to create us vs them mentalities. Is that impossible? I don't think so. There is a far smaller pool of personalities and leaders, and it is a lot easier to appeal to them than to make everyone get in line. Plus, the people look to their favorite personalities to lead by example. If leaders strike a better tone and really promote that people get into new genres instead of shitting on them, then more people will follow their lead. At least, that's my hypothesis. I don't know if there is an empirical evidence to support or refute that claim. | ||
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Ashes
United States362 Posts
There are a lot of things that Blizzard could (should) have done, which Riot did and enhanced their game to the audience worldwide. But yeah TLDR: TL get a LOL team please!! I think we are ready! | ||
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Monsen
Germany2548 Posts
This is not a courtroom. It seems far more reasonable for Riot to pull this crap because obviously it greatly benefits their cause. Neither EG nor CoL have any advantage from making this up. So sure, Riot might not be guilty in a courtroom, but it's certainly enough to tarnish the opinion people have of them. | ||
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DonKey_
Liechtenstein1356 Posts
On February 05 2013 06:45 Monsen wrote: Yeah right. The only thing is... This is not a courtroom. It seems far more reasonable for Riot to pull this crap because obviously it greatly benefits their cause. Neither EG nor CoL have any advantage from making this up. So sure, Riot might not be guilty in a courtroom, but it's certainly enough to tarnish the opinion people have of them. The entire point was whether Riot was guilty in a courtroom. I have no problem with him or you saying in your opinion this what you think happenned, but do not state it as fact without evidence like what is currently being done. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On February 05 2013 04:16 laerteis wrote: djWheat is the person who made the Breaking Bad/American Idol analogy referenced in the OP, iirc. I understood him to mean that SC2 was higher quality, but LOL had larger appeal. Did he really? Oh dear. lol I guess I should be taking this up with him then! | ||
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Monsen
Germany2548 Posts
On February 05 2013 06:47 DonKey_ wrote: The entire point was whether Riot was guilty in a courtroom. I have no problem with him or you saying in your opinion this what you think happenned, but do not state it as fact without evidence like what is currently being done. Uh no? That was your point. Pretty sure it started with sth. along the lines of "I hate LOL/Riot whatever because they are scumbags". Maybe the officer searching your car doesn't find any weed and thus has no legal grounds to arrest you, but when your car is filled with smoke that smells like weed chances are he'll call you a stoner. And he'll be right. | ||
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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DonKey_
Liechtenstein1356 Posts
On February 05 2013 06:59 Monsen wrote: Uh no? That was your point. Pretty sure it started with sth. along the lines of "I hate LOL/Riot whatever because they are scumbags". Uh yes? I'm only arguing my point. It being the only point means it's The point. Really making me reiterate that? I don't care about anything in this thread than other than the statements being portrayed as facts without evidence hence unqualifying them as facts. Cops and weed, that is so similar. /sarcasm | ||
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Martijn
Netherlands1219 Posts
On February 05 2013 06:34 nomyx wrote: Of course, that's why I already outline what I dislike about it earlier in this thread. Yes. Imagine if Nazgul shut down all of team liquid without a moment's notice (I'm not saying he would, just speaking hypothetically). All this content gone. User created guides, replays from SC2 / BW, decade olds threads. Imagine if all that was delete and all that was left was a link taking you to a new game that he helped make, which for the sake of conversation let's assume it was a "less than stellar" rip off of SC2. Yeah, I know what happened. I had my old dota podcasts up on there too, between that and megaupload going down I have no proof "double damage" ever existed or much of anything from that time. There really were some good intentions involved for what it's worth. The plan I was told really was to make all the content available. But yeah, road to hell, good intentions. We all know what happened and that it didn't end right. | ||
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Martijn
Netherlands1219 Posts
On February 05 2013 06:47 DonKey_ wrote: The entire point was whether Riot was guilty in a courtroom. I have no problem with him or you saying in your opinion this what you think happenned, but do not state it as fact without evidence like what is currently being done. So basically what you're saying is "yeah for all intents and purposes you're right and this happen, but you might not be able to sway all 12 of the jurors beyond reasonable doubt with only public statements from credible parties". Yeah thanks so much for your contribution. Definitely didn't derail the conversation. For everyone else, please don't waste time arguing whether this did or didn't happen. It really did, let's get back to the actual point. | ||
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DonKey_
Liechtenstein1356 Posts
On February 05 2013 07:17 Martijn wrote: So basically what you're saying is "yeah for all intents and purposes you're right and this happen, but you might not be able to sway all 12 of the jurors beyond reasonable doubt with only public statements from credible parties". Yeah thanks so much for your contribution. Definitely didn't derail the conversation. For everyone else, please don't waste time arguing whether this did or didn't happen. It really did, let's get back to the actual point. No I'm saying for all intents and purposes it did not happen until you can prove other wise. You can say you think that it happened thats cool but don't make claims with no evidence. It amazes me you can say that seriously on a forum with nothing to back you up. Whats obvious to me is you genuinely don't care to provide people with answers and want to use your status as a means to prove your point. For some people that may be good enough, not for me. | ||
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Takkara
United States2503 Posts
On February 05 2013 07:22 DonKey_ wrote: No I'm saying for all intents and purposes it did not happen until you can prove other wise. You can say you think that it happened thats cool but don't make claims with no evidence. It amazes me you can say that seriously on a forum with nothing to back you up. Whats obvious to me is you genuinely don't care to provide people with answers and want to use your status as a means to prove your point. For some people that may be good enough, not for me. The problem is that the issue was settled a long time ago. It was clear that at one point Riot actually told teams about the exclusivity thing. The one thing that I do not believe has been uncovered is whether or not Riot rescinded the policy before people found out about it or after the shitstorm hit. It DID happen, though. It's not opinion. Go do the research and feel free to come back if you find conflicting evidence, but the burden of proof is on you at this point, because you're challenging what's known to be true. | ||
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Martijn
Netherlands1219 Posts
On February 05 2013 07:22 DonKey_ wrote: No I'm saying for all intents and purposes it did not happen until you can prove other wise. You can say you think that it happened thats cool but don't make claims with no evidence. It amazes me you can say that seriously on a forum with nothing to back you up. Whats obvious to me is you genuinely don't care to provide people with answers and want to use your status as a means to prove your point. For some people that may be good enough, not for me. You're incredibly naive. By your reasoning, WW never signed morrow. All we did is release a statement, clearly unless we show his contract, he's a free agent. I don't owe you any answers. Personally I don't care if you believe me or not. My only interest is that you don't muddy up the conversation. Any hopes of having a remotely insightful or constructive conversation is slowly slipping away. | ||
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AlternativeEgo
Sweden17309 Posts
On February 04 2013 21:13 DoA wrote: “It’s nice to be important, but it’s more important to be nice.” Hey man, that was Scooter + Show Spoiler +  Good read, DoA  | ||
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