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i follow bw, sc2, and dota2
LoL just doesnt cut it as a competitive game for me
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this is kind of like when starcraft players try and compare their game to chess and suggest that they have similar strategic depth and skill requirements.
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On February 05 2013 05:03 mykv wrote:
this is kind of like when starcraft players try and compare their game to chess and suggest that they have similar strategic depth and skill requirements.
Broodwar yes, SC2 probably not.
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On February 05 2013 05:03 mykv wrote:
this is kind of like when starcraft players try and compare their game to chess and suggest that they have similar strategic depth and skill requirements.
I find these threads hilarious, for exactly the reason you pointed out. It isn't hard to see that chess is substantially deeper strategically and that starcraft is about infinite times more difficult mechanically.
If my answers appear comical to others, then more power to them. I don't exactly expect to change people's mind but some people enjoy debate.
Edit: I suppose strategically and tactically are different. IMO Chess is more tactical but the point remains.
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On February 05 2013 03:50 Martijn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 02:55 hoodcash wrote:On February 05 2013 02:48 SolidMustard wrote:On February 05 2013 02:43 son1dow wrote:On February 05 2013 02:36 Nashtak wrote:On February 05 2013 01:34 son1dow wrote:I'll try to keep this brief and concise. 1) Riot's strategy is dangerous to esports. It would be blatantly hypocritical to deny that. This is enough reason to hate on the game, period. This defeats any argument about respecting other games. 2) LoL is easy. a) It's a shamelessly dumbed down version of DotA, that's very obvious. How is this not sad? b) It's difficulty is based largely on pure knowledge, which is obviously neither very impressive nor very valuable. Pretty much all good sports and games are the opposite of that. c) It very mechanically easy. d) It has little skills involved in general. This makes the game shallow. e) When there are so few skills, they don't mesh and produce more complicated gameplay. This is the most important part. This is something you seem to have failed to grasp entirely - mechanical skill IS important because in some games like QuakeWorld, it makes teamplay and other skills just that much harder, varied and important, increasing the difficulty of the game exponentially. If a game is teamwork only, it's teamwork will only be more important, not more difficult. f) It promotes a > b > c > a gameplay. It's why players play multiple champions - it's easy enough to learn a bunch of them because champion advantage is more important than the negligible skill advantage. The argument we're having seems to be a little like bowling vs. football - you can't deny that in bowling, aim constitutes a larger percentage of the game, yet... Isn't it obvious which takes more skill? [Barring the popularity, to which this comparison doesn't apply]. 3) It delegitimizes esports in general. How would you like to have bowling and football on the same stage? At this point, respecting the bowling players and spectators might be secondary. Why should anyone have respect for players that do things which are... not that extraordinary, after all? 4) This whole idea supports games getting easier. If we bring esports to mainstream by making it casual... Doesn't that defeat the purpose? A couple of notes. I. You are free to enjoy LoL, I don't blame you. Just don't call it what it isn't. And don't force anyone to stop supporting other (better competitively  ) games. II. If anyone cares about competitive gaming, they SHOULD be free to discuss what is good for an esport. This is undeniable. I'm tired of seeing gaming veterans getting lumped in with mindless bashers by most major. No, being positive isn't the only thing anyone should do. That would be, frankly, stupid. You just got to read point 1 to know you are in for a treat. I'm sorry, you disagree with that? Are you aware of what Riot tried to pull off with professional teams, for example? Dude, you can't say "Riot's strategy is dangerous to esports. It would be blatantly hypocritical to deny that" without any kind of further justification, and expect people to take you seriously. Riot is the main company making esports grow lately as far as I know, so if you think you have a point, you're going to need to explain it He's going off the supposed rumor that Riot only lets teams choose between a LoL and Dota2 team. Note the rumor part. Last I checked EG still has their dota2 team? Even if they did, well you can't work for Lockheed and Boeing at the same time, can you. It's a business For fucks sake, that wasn't a rumor, that was confirmed by several teams. The teams went public because it was in their eyes unacceptable. This actually happened. They even tried to cover it up and then several teams stated "no, this wasn't an accident, it's what you told us". I don't care about the rest of the discussion, but at least get your facts straight.
Confirmed by several teams? You have to be kidding me. Two teams(EG and Complexity) made CLAIMS that this was the case, it's also worth noting niether of these teams had LoL divisions at the time but did have Dota divisions. They never provided any evidence to support their claims and were even refuted by a team(Dignitas) they asked to help back them up.
YOU need to get YOUR facts straight because what you are reffering to are verbal statements that in no way shape or form "confirm" anything.
I could care less if you hate LoL, bash it all day. However don't come into a forum and state things as facts when your source is someone with no evidence(scoots), because that makes you look like a liar.
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Personally I recognize that I am far too invested in the SC2 scene to be remotely unbiased with regards to LoL, that being said I gave it a college try and it simply didn't strike my fancy. I respect the game,the strategy involved, though I have found my limited interactions with the community around the game to be disappointing.
I realize I rolled low and got the equivalent of having your first five games on ladder be BM players, who chat too much during any stage of the game and that there are respectful League players, but that kind of stuck with me at first exposure.
I am content to let sleeping dogs lie, I might pop into a LoL stream from time to time but that is about the extent of my interest. I don't read into the perceived animosity, just game and have fun.
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On February 05 2013 05:18 DonKey_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 03:50 Martijn wrote:On February 05 2013 02:55 hoodcash wrote:On February 05 2013 02:48 SolidMustard wrote:On February 05 2013 02:43 son1dow wrote:On February 05 2013 02:36 Nashtak wrote:On February 05 2013 01:34 son1dow wrote:I'll try to keep this brief and concise. 1) Riot's strategy is dangerous to esports. It would be blatantly hypocritical to deny that. This is enough reason to hate on the game, period. This defeats any argument about respecting other games. 2) LoL is easy. a) It's a shamelessly dumbed down version of DotA, that's very obvious. How is this not sad? b) It's difficulty is based largely on pure knowledge, which is obviously neither very impressive nor very valuable. Pretty much all good sports and games are the opposite of that. c) It very mechanically easy. d) It has little skills involved in general. This makes the game shallow. e) When there are so few skills, they don't mesh and produce more complicated gameplay. This is the most important part. This is something you seem to have failed to grasp entirely - mechanical skill IS important because in some games like QuakeWorld, it makes teamplay and other skills just that much harder, varied and important, increasing the difficulty of the game exponentially. If a game is teamwork only, it's teamwork will only be more important, not more difficult. f) It promotes a > b > c > a gameplay. It's why players play multiple champions - it's easy enough to learn a bunch of them because champion advantage is more important than the negligible skill advantage. The argument we're having seems to be a little like bowling vs. football - you can't deny that in bowling, aim constitutes a larger percentage of the game, yet... Isn't it obvious which takes more skill? [Barring the popularity, to which this comparison doesn't apply]. 3) It delegitimizes esports in general. How would you like to have bowling and football on the same stage? At this point, respecting the bowling players and spectators might be secondary. Why should anyone have respect for players that do things which are... not that extraordinary, after all? 4) This whole idea supports games getting easier. If we bring esports to mainstream by making it casual... Doesn't that defeat the purpose? A couple of notes. I. You are free to enjoy LoL, I don't blame you. Just don't call it what it isn't. And don't force anyone to stop supporting other (better competitively ) games. II. If anyone cares about competitive gaming, they SHOULD be free to discuss what is good for an esport. This is undeniable. I'm tired of seeing gaming veterans getting lumped in with mindless bashers by most major. No, being positive isn't the only thing anyone should do. That would be, frankly, stupid. You just got to read point 1 to know you are in for a treat. I'm sorry, you disagree with that? Are you aware of what Riot tried to pull off with professional teams, for example? Dude, you can't say "Riot's strategy is dangerous to esports. It would be blatantly hypocritical to deny that" without any kind of further justification, and expect people to take you seriously. Riot is the main company making esports grow lately as far as I know, so if you think you have a point, you're going to need to explain it He's going off the supposed rumor that Riot only lets teams choose between a LoL and Dota2 team. Note the rumor part. Last I checked EG still has their dota2 team? Even if they did, well you can't work for Lockheed and Boeing at the same time, can you. It's a business For fucks sake, that wasn't a rumor, that was confirmed by several teams. The teams went public because it was in their eyes unacceptable. This actually happened. They even tried to cover it up and then several teams stated "no, this wasn't an accident, it's what you told us". I don't care about the rest of the discussion, but at least get your facts straight. Confirmed by several teams? You have to be kidding me. Two teams(EG and Complexity) made CLAIMS that this was the case, it's also worth noting niether of these teams had LoL divisions at the time but did have Dota divisions. They never provided any evidence to support their claims and were even refuted by a team(Dignitas) they asked to help back them up. YOU need to get YOUR facts straight because what you are reffering to are verbal statements that in no way shape or form "confirm" anything. I could care less if you hate LoL, bash it all day. However don't come into a forum and state things as facts when your source is someone with no evidence(scoots), because that makes you look like a liar.
2 of the biggest esports teams in the US come forth and state that this happened and you think it's still a rumor? How thick can you be. And Scoots saying the cover-up about it being a "miscommunication" being verbal somehow makes it less true? Hell, a verbal agreement is legally binding, but sure, lets pretend whether it was said or written has any relevance. Esports isn't lala-land, you shouldn't just ignore whatever is inconvenient to you. But hey, if you don't trust EG and Complexity, carry on.
Some day someone's going to write the book on all the esports debauchery and this won't even be bad enough to be a footnote.
Regardless, don't let this discussion about what did and didn't happen take away from the actual point.
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On February 05 2013 05:32 Martijn wrote:
2 of the biggest esports teams in the US come forth and state that this happened and you think it's still a rumor? How thick can you be. And Scoots saying the cover-up about it being a "miscommunication" being verbal somehow makes it less true? Hell, a verbal agreement is legally binding, but sure, lets pretend whether it was said or written has any relevance. Esports isn't lala-land, you shouldn't just ignore whatever is inconvenient to you. But hey, if you don't trust EG and Complexity, carry on.
Some day someone's going to write the book on all the Esports debauchery and this won't even be bad enough to be a footnote.
There was also an off the record source from one of the LoL teams looking to expand into dota.
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United States23745 Posts
On February 05 2013 05:34 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 05:32 Martijn wrote:
2 of the biggest esports teams in the US come forth and state that this happened and you think it's still a rumor? How thick can you be. And Scoots saying the cover-up about it being a "miscommunication" being verbal somehow makes it less true? Hell, a verbal agreement is legally binding, but sure, lets pretend whether it was said or written has any relevance. Esports isn't lala-land, you shouldn't just ignore whatever is inconvenient to you. But hey, if you don't trust EG and Complexity, carry on.
Some day someone's going to write the book on all the Esports debauchery and this won't even be bad enough to be a footnote. There was also an off the record source from one of the LoL teams looking to expand into dota.
Dignitas denied the claim, they already had a Dota 2 team and don't really gain anything from protecting Riot's image.
Edit: Doesn't confirm anything but it's something at least worth noting.
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On February 05 2013 05:32 Martijn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 05:18 DonKey_ wrote:On February 05 2013 03:50 Martijn wrote:On February 05 2013 02:55 hoodcash wrote:On February 05 2013 02:48 SolidMustard wrote:On February 05 2013 02:43 son1dow wrote:On February 05 2013 02:36 Nashtak wrote:On February 05 2013 01:34 son1dow wrote:I'll try to keep this brief and concise. 1) Riot's strategy is dangerous to esports. It would be blatantly hypocritical to deny that. This is enough reason to hate on the game, period. This defeats any argument about respecting other games. 2) LoL is easy. a) It's a shamelessly dumbed down version of DotA, that's very obvious. How is this not sad? b) It's difficulty is based largely on pure knowledge, which is obviously neither very impressive nor very valuable. Pretty much all good sports and games are the opposite of that. c) It very mechanically easy. d) It has little skills involved in general. This makes the game shallow. e) When there are so few skills, they don't mesh and produce more complicated gameplay. This is the most important part. This is something you seem to have failed to grasp entirely - mechanical skill IS important because in some games like QuakeWorld, it makes teamplay and other skills just that much harder, varied and important, increasing the difficulty of the game exponentially. If a game is teamwork only, it's teamwork will only be more important, not more difficult. f) It promotes a > b > c > a gameplay. It's why players play multiple champions - it's easy enough to learn a bunch of them because champion advantage is more important than the negligible skill advantage. The argument we're having seems to be a little like bowling vs. football - you can't deny that in bowling, aim constitutes a larger percentage of the game, yet... Isn't it obvious which takes more skill? [Barring the popularity, to which this comparison doesn't apply]. 3) It delegitimizes esports in general. How would you like to have bowling and football on the same stage? At this point, respecting the bowling players and spectators might be secondary. Why should anyone have respect for players that do things which are... not that extraordinary, after all? 4) This whole idea supports games getting easier. If we bring esports to mainstream by making it casual... Doesn't that defeat the purpose? A couple of notes. I. You are free to enjoy LoL, I don't blame you. Just don't call it what it isn't. And don't force anyone to stop supporting other (better competitively ) games. II. If anyone cares about competitive gaming, they SHOULD be free to discuss what is good for an esport. This is undeniable. I'm tired of seeing gaming veterans getting lumped in with mindless bashers by most major. No, being positive isn't the only thing anyone should do. That would be, frankly, stupid. You just got to read point 1 to know you are in for a treat. I'm sorry, you disagree with that? Are you aware of what Riot tried to pull off with professional teams, for example? Dude, you can't say "Riot's strategy is dangerous to esports. It would be blatantly hypocritical to deny that" without any kind of further justification, and expect people to take you seriously. Riot is the main company making esports grow lately as far as I know, so if you think you have a point, you're going to need to explain it He's going off the supposed rumor that Riot only lets teams choose between a LoL and Dota2 team. Note the rumor part. Last I checked EG still has their dota2 team? Even if they did, well you can't work for Lockheed and Boeing at the same time, can you. It's a business For fucks sake, that wasn't a rumor, that was confirmed by several teams. The teams went public because it was in their eyes unacceptable. This actually happened. They even tried to cover it up and then several teams stated "no, this wasn't an accident, it's what you told us". I don't care about the rest of the discussion, but at least get your facts straight. Confirmed by several teams? You have to be kidding me. Two teams(EG and Complexity) made CLAIMS that this was the case, it's also worth noting niether of these teams had LoL divisions at the time but did have Dota divisions. They never provided any evidence to support their claims and were even refuted by a team(Dignitas) they asked to help back them up. YOU need to get YOUR facts straight because what you are reffering to are verbal statements that in no way shape or form "confirm" anything. I could care less if you hate LoL, bash it all day. However don't come into a forum and state things as facts when your source is someone with no evidence(scoots), because that makes you look like a liar. 2 of the biggest esports teams in the US come forth and state that this happened and you think it's still a rumor? How thick can you be. And Scoots saying the cover-up about it being a "miscommunication" being verbal somehow makes it less true? Hell, a verbal agreement is legally binding, but sure, lets pretend whether it was said or written has any relevance. Esports isn't lala-land, you shouldn't just ignore whatever is inconvenient to you. But hey, if you don't trust EG and Complexity, carry on. Some day someone's going to write the book on all the esports debauchery and this won't even be bad enough to be a footnote. Regardless, don't let this discussion about what did and didn't happen take away from the actual point.
So your rebuttal to me is a restatement of your first post.
Why did Diginitas not stick with them and deny what they are claiming? You didn't touch that part of my post.
Sure verbal agreements are legally binding when you have a record off them. However I never heard of this record existing or any other documents even remotely relating to what you are talking about existing.
You would think that when something as big as game exclusivity among teams is being seriously considered there would be evidence pertaining to it.
You whole arguement is "he said she said" please don't try and claim it as anything other. Actualy please try to claim it is anything other.
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I actually watched the LoL finals on IEM brazil as I wanna try play the game and enjoy watching it, but I can't say I was positive after watching the finals.
When I was looking at the players one was playing with one hand from time to time when no hero was dead and all players looked completely relax like they were on vacation.  so I can't agree with doa here saying there is a lot of mental thinking going on also everything he listed isn't difficult as they got a lot of time to make those decision,
LoL is a team play and knowledge based game. It looks somewhat like wow arena in my opinion where everything is a mess when all heroes fight each other and there was a lot times where nothing was happening but just fighting minion soldiers.
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I watch both. I never thought I would watch LoL because of how it was in season 1. I played it casually from the start though. But now with all the changes to push ganking, to reduce vision and to reduce snowballing and the stale meta of sc2 I have to admit I probably watched more LoL over the holidays than sc2. sc2 I only watch GSL and PL if I get the time, other tournaments are pretty darn boring to watch, there is just not enough cheese and funky play to mix the macro games up. Thats why I will stick to the GSL and PL - and continue to follow LoL season 3. Additionally I have to admit, there is a huge skillgap between 80% foreign teams and korean/southeastasian teams in LoL - like in sc2. And the skillgap is getting bigger and bigger. I think this skillgap is the bigger problem (for foreign audiences which do not like to watch koreans - I know alot people who dont, me excluded) than the "fight" of two leading esports games.
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Estonia4505 Posts
On February 05 2013 00:05 nomyx wrote:
edit: I myself love esports and believe that there should be several eSport titles. RTS (SC2), ARTS (DotA2), FPS (CS/Quake). I support eSports and I love it a lot, but I refuse to support an artificial eSport title such as League of Legends when you have a much better product on the market (DotA / DOTA2).
You can be said to be contradicting yourself.
Ontopic: Why are we supposed to have Esports again? I came into competitive gaming to watch games I like played by the best players there are. I understand the frictions between the LoL and DOTA 2 communities (mostly coming from the DOTA 2 side), but I never got the elitism some SC2 fans exhibit in LoL-bashing threads. At first it was funny, because the same arguments that were used to brand BW fans opinions as illegitimate are constantly used to push up the value of SC2 compared to aRTS/MOBA-s. Now it's just annoying, since it's been exactly the same since OGN picked up LoL. I don't care about Esports in the slightest, other than desiring a reasonably stable environment to watch a chosen few games in. SC2 has that, so I really do not get what LoL-bashers coming from SC2 are trying to accomplish other than making huge dicks of themselves. There will be SC2 tournaments as long as there is interest in it. LoL tournaments exist because a lot of people enjoy watching them. They needn't work together for the good of some retarded arbitrary concept such as Esports, but criticism that's not aimed at making the other game better is not going to change anything.
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As an European, I have no idea about the wallmart, whole foods comparision! ^^ great read trough. good job!
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On February 05 2013 05:54 mustaju wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 00:05 nomyx wrote:
edit: I myself love esports and believe that there should be several eSport titles. RTS (SC2), ARTS (DotA2), FPS (CS/Quake). I support eSports and I love it a lot, but I refuse to support an artificial eSport title such as League of Legends when you have a much better product on the market (DotA / DOTA2). You can be said to be contradicting yourself. Ontopic: Why are we supposed to have Esports again? I came into competitive gaming to watch games I like played by the best players there are. I understand the frictions between the LoL and DOTA 2 communities (mostly coming from the DOTA 2 side), but I never got the elitism some SC2 fans exhibit in LoL-bashing threads. At first it was funny, because the same arguments that were used to brand BW fans opinions as illegitimate are constantly used to push up the value of SC2 compared to aRTS/MOBA-s. Now it's just annoying, since it's been exactly the same since OGN picked up LoL. I don't care about Esports in the slightest, other than desiring a reasonably stable environment to watch a chosen few games in. SC2 has that, so I really do not get what LoL-bashers coming from SC2 are trying to accomplish other than making huge dicks of themselves. There will be SC2 tournaments as long as there is interest in it. LoL tournaments exist because a lot of people enjoy watching them. They needn't work together for the good of some retarded arbitrary concept such as Esports, but criticism that's not aimed at making the other game better is not going to change anything.
This. I feel like so many people are missing DoA's original point. It shouldn't matter if person A likes to watch SC2 and person B likes to watch LoL, just as much as it shouldn't matter that person A likes to watch baseball and person B likes to watch hockey. Let each sport have it's own fanbase, who like it for it's own merits, and at the very least, give LoL some credit for making the Esports scene bigger than it has ever been before, just as back in 2010/2011 SC2 made the Esports scene bigger than it had ever been before.
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Canada1637 Posts
People on things like talk shows should speak their mind and be honest while voicing their opinions or else what is the point of doing that type of content at all.
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The way I look at it is they are two different games. Sc2 is fun to play and because I like playing it, I enjoy watching it. Dota 2 (I never touched LoL) is also fun to play and I like to watch it because I like playing it. And I can say the same for CoD. At the end of the day I play what I like for fun and watch what i like but I don't go off trying to compare apples too oranges its not really logical and a waste of time. I say just enjoy it if you like don't hate on others for liking it if you don't. Sc2 doesn't equal esports,neither does LoL, dota2, cod, street fighter, halo ect ect. Esports is the act of competing against each other in a video game.
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On February 05 2013 05:46 DonKey_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 05:32 Martijn wrote:On February 05 2013 05:18 DonKey_ wrote:On February 05 2013 03:50 Martijn wrote:On February 05 2013 02:55 hoodcash wrote:On February 05 2013 02:48 SolidMustard wrote:On February 05 2013 02:43 son1dow wrote:On February 05 2013 02:36 Nashtak wrote:On February 05 2013 01:34 son1dow wrote:I'll try to keep this brief and concise. 1) Riot's strategy is dangerous to esports. It would be blatantly hypocritical to deny that. This is enough reason to hate on the game, period. This defeats any argument about respecting other games. 2) LoL is easy. a) It's a shamelessly dumbed down version of DotA, that's very obvious. How is this not sad? b) It's difficulty is based largely on pure knowledge, which is obviously neither very impressive nor very valuable. Pretty much all good sports and games are the opposite of that. c) It very mechanically easy. d) It has little skills involved in general. This makes the game shallow. e) When there are so few skills, they don't mesh and produce more complicated gameplay. This is the most important part. This is something you seem to have failed to grasp entirely - mechanical skill IS important because in some games like QuakeWorld, it makes teamplay and other skills just that much harder, varied and important, increasing the difficulty of the game exponentially. If a game is teamwork only, it's teamwork will only be more important, not more difficult. f) It promotes a > b > c > a gameplay. It's why players play multiple champions - it's easy enough to learn a bunch of them because champion advantage is more important than the negligible skill advantage. The argument we're having seems to be a little like bowling vs. football - you can't deny that in bowling, aim constitutes a larger percentage of the game, yet... Isn't it obvious which takes more skill? [Barring the popularity, to which this comparison doesn't apply]. 3) It delegitimizes esports in general. How would you like to have bowling and football on the same stage? At this point, respecting the bowling players and spectators might be secondary. Why should anyone have respect for players that do things which are... not that extraordinary, after all? 4) This whole idea supports games getting easier. If we bring esports to mainstream by making it casual... Doesn't that defeat the purpose? A couple of notes. I. You are free to enjoy LoL, I don't blame you. Just don't call it what it isn't. And don't force anyone to stop supporting other (better competitively ) games. II. If anyone cares about competitive gaming, they SHOULD be free to discuss what is good for an esport. This is undeniable. I'm tired of seeing gaming veterans getting lumped in with mindless bashers by most major. No, being positive isn't the only thing anyone should do. That would be, frankly, stupid. You just got to read point 1 to know you are in for a treat. I'm sorry, you disagree with that? Are you aware of what Riot tried to pull off with professional teams, for example? Dude, you can't say "Riot's strategy is dangerous to esports. It would be blatantly hypocritical to deny that" without any kind of further justification, and expect people to take you seriously. Riot is the main company making esports grow lately as far as I know, so if you think you have a point, you're going to need to explain it He's going off the supposed rumor that Riot only lets teams choose between a LoL and Dota2 team. Note the rumor part. Last I checked EG still has their dota2 team? Even if they did, well you can't work for Lockheed and Boeing at the same time, can you. It's a business For fucks sake, that wasn't a rumor, that was confirmed by several teams. The teams went public because it was in their eyes unacceptable. This actually happened. They even tried to cover it up and then several teams stated "no, this wasn't an accident, it's what you told us". I don't care about the rest of the discussion, but at least get your facts straight. Confirmed by several teams? You have to be kidding me. Two teams(EG and Complexity) made CLAIMS that this was the case, it's also worth noting niether of these teams had LoL divisions at the time but did have Dota divisions. They never provided any evidence to support their claims and were even refuted by a team(Dignitas) they asked to help back them up. YOU need to get YOUR facts straight because what you are reffering to are verbal statements that in no way shape or form "confirm" anything. I could care less if you hate LoL, bash it all day. However don't come into a forum and state things as facts when your source is someone with no evidence(scoots), because that makes you look like a liar. 2 of the biggest esports teams in the US come forth and state that this happened and you think it's still a rumor? How thick can you be. And Scoots saying the cover-up about it being a "miscommunication" being verbal somehow makes it less true? Hell, a verbal agreement is legally binding, but sure, lets pretend whether it was said or written has any relevance. Esports isn't lala-land, you shouldn't just ignore whatever is inconvenient to you. But hey, if you don't trust EG and Complexity, carry on. Some day someone's going to write the book on all the esports debauchery and this won't even be bad enough to be a footnote. Regardless, don't let this discussion about what did and didn't happen take away from the actual point. So your rebuttal to me is a restatement of your first post. Why did Diginitas not stick with them and deny what they are claiming? You didn't touch that part of my post. Sure verbal agreements are legally binding when you have a record off them. However I never heard of this record existing or any other documents even remotely relating to what you are talking about existing. You would think that when something as big game exclusivity among teams is being seriously considered there would evidence pertaining to it. You whole arguement is "he said she said" please don't try and claim it as anything other. Actualy please try to claim it is anything other.
I don't even.. "he said she said", because them actually attaching the email or whichever actually makes a difference? These were clear statements made by the teams. Dignitas isn't worth mentioning because how can Dignitas comment on something Riot told EG and Complexity? I'm sure Riot didn't tell Dignitas the same thing, but that has nothing to do with what Riot told EG and Complexity. All Dignitas said was that Riot didn't tell Dignitas that they needed to be (moba-)exclusive to LoL to compete in S3. They certainly told EG and Complexity. You're fogging up the issue with irrelevant points. This is not vague, this is not unclear, this is 2 of the biggest teams in esports saying "hey, this happened".
If you want a record of Scoots saying what he did, I'm sure it's readily available if you dig a bit.
It was a big deal, it was a huge deal, which is why Riot first denied it and then when they got caught deleted statements where they got denied it and tried to pawn it off as a miscommunication. "Woops, did we say your organisation? Nah, clearly not what we meant." Hell, here's Kennigit confirming that Riot signed exclusivity agreements with tournament organizers as well as a bonus. http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/z2wux/team_liquid_officially_covering_dota_2/c611bb4
I fully realize I generally get more information than a random Joe when it comes to esports, but you do not have to be an insider to know that this happened.
As for the actual topic. I would love for the SC2 community to get along with the LoL community and vice versa. History just shows that these kind of rivalries are part of esports. It's been that way since the earliest days of esports, quake vs counterstrike, and has had many iterations since. DoAs noble intentions aside, no logical or rational argument can put this to an end. It's honestly just something we should let be. If people want to express their loyalty to their franchise of choice in a toxic matter, well, that sucks. Sadly we can't stop them. And honestly, bringing it up just tends to fan the flames.
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Hi all, I'm one of the millions of average players of both LoL and SC2.
I played LoL for years, and started playing SC2 a month ago, as opposed to most of the players now.
I'm bad at both games, reached only gold in LoL (back in s2) and now climbing in SC2 ladder, gold (and ultra-bad) now.
And that's why I'm good at explaining people who are good at one game or the other (or both) something about us "masses".
I love playing LoL with friends, LoL it's like the game you play when you're a kid and you want to just stay outside as much as you can with you beloved friends playing whenever you can. It doesn't matter if they are as good as you, or if you're as good as they. The basics of LoL (like Soccer for example) are easy to grasp and we can play together even if one of us it's the worst gamer outta here. We can have fun together, ignoring personal skill. That's the reason why I played LoL so much.
Moreover, we have a lot of fun analyzing pro's games. It may seem silly, but we're a bunch of students so we are pretty good at studying and theoryzing, and the theory behind LoL is pretty complex (not individually, but as far as goes for team interaction), so we can really have fun just talking of it, even if we're bad at the game we can understand some of his deep structure because pros explained them a bit.
This makes the level of difficulty while approaching LoL as an entertainment basically 0.
(I know it seems far from the topic, I'll get there asap)
I started SC2 exactly because of the same reasons. I love being able to have fun with friends, but LoL is in my mind absolute shit when you're alone. The Matchmaking system is so stupid when you queue alone, and the game really sucks. On the other hand, SC2 is a 1v1 game, making me face my mistakes and my gameplay alone. It' requires a good amount of dedication to get started (I brought with me 4 friends trying starcraft 2, I am the only who continued playing it), the strategies are pretty dynamic (and the meta too, unlike LoL) and the complexity of the games makes every match a learning lesson.
And that's what I wanted to explain to you. The average SC2 has played for so long a 1v1 game that really can't grasp how complex can be coordinating with other teammates, and how frustrating can be to have a strategy but people that you cannot command fail to execute it. and you don't have control over it.. So you have to approach it with much lower expectations in terms of optimization (compared to SC2). You cannot say "I was 30s behind him, where I can get better", because you're dealing with a great amount of friendly actions you cannot control.
SC2 on the other hand but a huge emphasis on personal skill and therefore this mechanic is totally absent.
I don'y know if Lol can be an esport or not, but I find it without a doubt funny to watch, and competitive as far as team coordination is concerned. So my guess is, why not? It won't be like SC2 where all revolves around individual skill, and that's true because I left LoL also because is too forgiving on the mechanics side for my tastes. But team interaction is not less entertaining that some OMG plays I have saw in Sc2 tournaments. And if you read the reddit post, you know I approached to SC2 because it's goddamn good to watch.
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EPT
