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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
I know this is a big QQ post but this is annoying me since a while. I have assembled quite the warning / ban history by now and some of them were certainly well deserved. I have posted my share of stupid shit over the years, no doubt.
But on the other hand I have assembled so many wrong warnings and bans by now that I have to say something about it.
Here is my collection of what I think are the worst mod decisions against me:
1) 2 day ban: Incorrect use of the term "Trolling"
My first ban was because of this post in a Football World Cup game Live Report thread (screenshot):
+ Show Spoiler +
What the heck? How would "Incorrect use of the term "Trolling"" even be a reason for a warning? But a ban? No way. I haven't even had a single warning back then so it wasn't an upgraded warning either. On top of that I think I was using the term "trolling" quite correctly there, considering that Vuvuzelas actually are partially meant to distract the opposing teams by annoying them. Easily the worst mod decision I ever faced.
2) Warning: still not a good OP
link
My most recent warning. What am I supposed to add into an OP? A link to the Wikipedia "hurricane"or a link to cnn.com for Hurricane coverage? Make my own long OP that in the end is 100 times worse and less complete than any random news site coverage anyway?
There is nothing controversial about a hurricane, the topic is all crystal clear without any information from the OP. It is simply THERE and people want to talk about it so the thread needs no elaborate OP. It is a big fat hurricane that is on every TV screen and news site in the whole western world. Here are a few examples of threads that work beautifully with similarly small OPs because the topic is similarly clear (three of them made by mods btw).
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=48747
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=89879
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=116127
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=136013
3) 2-day-ban: asking for a free restream
I was an absolute SC2 noobie trying to get into the game and there was a PPV only MLG going on (MLG Spring). There was also a link in the TL side window redirecting to the MLG site WITHOUT the note "PPV". I knew that I had seen parts of an MLG live before without paying so when I couldn't get the stream to work on their site I was not sure if it was a PPV this time or if I was just too dumb to find the right button on their page.
So I asked. The conversation in the LR report thread went like this (quotes):
"So there is no free stream?"
"You been living under a rock?"
"So is there a free stream or not?"
"Thre're some free streams"
"Ah cool, can u post link?"
Sure enough I got a ban for "asking for a free restream". Fucking bullshit, I was so angry. I never asked for an illegal free restream, at that time I had no fucking idea that there even were any illegal restreams going on in Esports. I came from BW, everything was free there and it was a common practice to ask for working streams in the LR threads. Had anyone said a simple "no" I would have just left. The guy telling me there are free streams obviously didn't even get a warning for luring me into this.
4) 2-day-ban: Funny pics thread is not a place for arguing about forums.
I posted a selfmade long pic in the random pics thread that made fun of the Destiny gook-calling drama and the overreaction of the SC2 community defending and attacking him. A small part of the joke was that this would have been handled differently by the BW community but mostly it was making fun of the excessive drama. Now I obviously cannot repost that picture but it was pretty funny and I can post the PMs that I got for it.
"Nice post in pics thread i chuckled. It was sad too tho =_="
"whoah did you just make that pic in funny pic thread? It's awesome  "
Note that I didn't get a single critical PM for the pic except the ban notification.
5) Warning: No picture = warn, you could of just PM'd him?
As you might know a frequent pattern in the random pics thread is this: Someone posts a picture that makes people want to respond ("where is that pic from?"; "I think that pic is inappropiate"; "super funny pic bro, thx for posting"). Now you can either send a PM and get ignored or post in the thread to get your answer and get warned. Or, brilliantly, ask the question anyway and attach a butt old unfunny pic from 2002 to it (that annoys everyone) to get your answer and no warning.
I don't think I am unfair when I call this a shitty system. So I had the idea to make a thread in which we can discuss the pics. The advantages are that people who just want to see funny pics with discussions are forever freed from that plague, that these annoying "1 old pic + question" posts will disappear and that we can actually discuss pics that are worth discussing. I advertised the thread ONCE in the random pics thread by responding to a "long opinion + 1 pic post", without attaching a picture because that was the whole point of the thread to begin with.
The thread went very well, 3 questions were resolved in 8 posts and 1 post simply said that the thread is a good idea. Sure enough it got immediately closed because "fuck you we hate good ideas" and I got warned for not attaching a picture of a cat asking "can i has cheezburger?" to my advertisement post.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341328
6) Warning: don't be a jerk.
My post about Anna Prosser's Miss USA candidature was this: "Hmm... I have never heard of her or seen her before (not into SC2), but that picture in the OP is certainly not going to get a vote for a miss election out of me. She looks not attractive."
Now this might be considered being a jerk because she actually is pretty (I know that now) but I wasn't lying. She actually looked just mediocre on that pic and this was the first I saw of her. If you haven't seen the pic you might not believe me but trust me, she looked not like a person you would elect even for a Miss Oklahoma Cheese Contest. I have no idea how that happened but her picture for that contest was the single worst looking of her I have ever seen. By miles.
The pic on the Miss USA page got replaced with a better one quickly btw.
  
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My advice: suck it up.
We've all gotten our fair share of disagreeing warnings and bans.
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You combined a joke about Destiny using racial slurs and SC2 vs BW and were surprised you offended someone?
If you could somehow work into that "saviOr did nothing wrong" then you'd have hit like, a trifecta of ways to offend strangers lol.
I will admit I don't understand that first ban for the vuvuzela at all.
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hahahahahahahahaaha
You've spoken your honest mind about the wrong person man
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On October 31 2012 02:24 Torte de Lini wrote:
My advice: suck it up.
We've all gotten our fair share of disagreeing warnings and bans.
I haven't. But I also haven't been around as long - and I'm fully aware that anything posted on the internet lives forever, so maybe I think two or three times about it.
Also, complaining about moderation never ends well. Everyone thinks of the internet as a land of free speech, where you can say anything, and that's not true. The internet is a collection of dictatorships enmeshed in communications. Most of the dictators (moderators/site owners/etc) are benevolent, generally cool, and open to things. But they are still completely in control, you have no "rights", and the only brakes or balances of power are amongst them. This has been true since Arpanet.
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1. Okay, bad decision.
2. All those links are to pre SC2 threads, when posting standards were much more lax
3. Ignorance is no excuse
4. Why are you annoyed over this one exactly?
5. Just use PMs, good lord.
6. Still rude.
Get over it.
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Canada13389 Posts
Most of your "undeserved" warnings were for breaking rules. So I would say they are deserved. Especially in the Pics thread. It says no pic = warning/ban
Do why not ask a question and post pic?
Or you know PM the poster -_-
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I got 1 week ban for 3) so you had it easy
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Bitch please, I got a warning for talking in an LR thread about something that was shown on stream (they accidentally revealed how long the set would be on stream beforehand).
Also, website feedback.
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On October 31 2012 02:45 Praetorial wrote:
1. Okay, bad decision.
2. All those links are to pre SC2 threads, when posting standards were much more lax
3. Ignorance is no excuse
4. Why are you annoyed over this one exactly?
5. Just use PMs, good lord.
6. Still rude.
Get over it.
3. Yes it is.... yes it fucking is. This is not a case of "nobody should be ignorant of the law". The mod probably assumed the guy wanted an "illegal stream" but the guy just assumed there were free streams.
4. Seems like he got a 2day ban for posting a funny picture in a funny picture thread. I'd be annoyed.
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I'd say the first one is the only one I don't understand. There is probably some context that I'm unaware of coming from a soccer hating land.
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row row row your boat gently DOWN WITH THE SYSTEM!!
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Do you own the site? They can do whatever they want, your still able to post here so no one gives a fuck. Being on the slight side of harsh is better than slight side of letting shitty threads and posts slide, with the intentions of pissing people off/derailing the thread.
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Hm, I don't fancy playing moderator or anything here and trying to justify all of them. I don't quite understand #1, why you were banned, that is, but maybe there was some context I'm not getting.
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Yeah, 1 is the only one I don't get. The rest of them seem like minor indiscretions met with minor punishments, so I don't understand why you're so frustrated with "the system"
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All of the really insubstantial OPs you listed were back from the past, when everyone on the forums knew each other so quality wasn't quite an issue. Only after SC2 did the population explode, quality went to shit and so the moderators had to start making heavier penalties for not posting well..
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1. Agreed with you. Ban definitely over the top.
2:
This is a good OP about the storm:
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=378741
This is a good OP about the mars landing (updates, etc etc):
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=358400
Also in your thread people like ranshaked posted live updates. Multiple streams, twitters and webpages with live updates were references. You did nothing like that. If you dont want to make a quality op (or update it, once there is more information) - dont make one.
3. From the start of GOM TV, TL's position on restreams was well known for basically everyone. Yes, it sucks that you didnt know that, but the punishment was always a ban.
4. Since I dont know the exact picture, I cannot comment. But there are other pictures which get warned.
5. No picture = warn is a rule that is easy to follow. PM's are really enough.
6. Agreed with you. Especially since pretty != attractive, and the first pic really isnt her greatest. And it wasnt insulting "what an ugly bitch".
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
My main problem with 2,4 and 5 was that I tried to contribute to the site and got punished for it.
I spent quite a bit of time to make a good funny picture that mocked the ongoing drama shitstorm and got banned.
I saw a problem with the random pics thread, thought of an answer, made a good new thread with a nice OP that got positive feedback and as a thankyou got a warning.
I saw there was no hurricane thread so I made one and got a warning and I still have no idea what you would include in a hurricane thread OP other than asking how the fellow TLers are (because that was all I wanted to know).
I know it is just random warnings/bans on a random site on the internet but it is shitty anyway if you invest something to help out and get punished for it.
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Zurich15324 Posts
Most of those mod actions are completely fine and in line with TL policy
1) wouldn't happen again today. It was during a temporary campaign to restore the word "trolling" (which failed)
2) borderline, I admit. It IS a bad OP though and those get usually closed. Look at this for a good OP: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376970
3) completely fine
4) completely fine
5) completely fine
6) completely fine
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The real problem with people incorrectly using "trolling" was first really described by intrigue, and it mainly has to do with calling your opposition a troll in a discussion, which is akin to throwing bricks under a lawnmower as far as how annoying it is. Your post was on the same level as other people expressing frustration, the vuvuzelas were just obnoxious.
The random pics thread is a beginner's trap, people go in, post a pic they thought was funny (seemingly satisfying the mod note on the thread), then find it exploited race or the wrong community controversy, or I also saw one guy post a meme about the guy above him not posting a picture, which I laughed at, but was construed as backseat moderating (the meme, not my laughing). Then they get warned/banned, but luckily the pics are left for the rest of us to enjoy.
If it were up to me, the people who actually post without a picture would get ejected for like a week. It's plain as day in the mod note. That would be more fair to all the 2-days who post a SFW pic
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2. three of the four threads you linked have been edited, that's not how they were when they were first posted.
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On October 31 2012 03:57 onewingedmoogle wrote:
2. three of the four threads you linked have been edited, that's not how they were when they were first posted.
OP 1 and 2 were edited ~one minute after getting posted. So I doubt they were miles long with tons of information.
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I'll admit I was a bit surprised at the Hurricane Sandy thread warning, though I didn't get to see the mod's rationale so can't speak with any certainty on that one.
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On October 31 2012 03:52 zatic wrote:Most of those mod actions are completely fine and in line with TL policy 1) wouldn't happen again today. It was during a temporary campaign to restore the word "trolling" (which failed) 2) borderline, I admit. It IS a bad OP though and those get usually closed. Look at this for a good OP: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376970 3) completely fine 4) completely fine 5) completely fine 6) completely fine
ZATIC HAS SPOKEN! Though I have to say that number 6 seems a bit over the top, but I'm pretty laissez-faire about things like that. Also can you explain to me the restoration of the word trolling? I think that was before my time.
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On October 31 2012 04:09 ThomasjServo wrote:
I'll admit I was a bit surprised at the Hurricane Sandy thread warning, though I didn't get to see the mod's rationale so can't speak with any certainty on that one.
The full ban/warning reasons are always in the headline. In this case "still not a good OP".
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Eh, part of what makes TL good is the higher-than-average post quality found on the site. TBH I clicked on your Hurricane Sandy OP and was a little surprised not to find anything in there. As a post in an established thread, your query about how fellow TLers are doing would have been fine IMO, but as the anchor to the thread it is lacking. You mentioned all the various resources available for anyone to find info on Sandy, but didn't actually go there and assemble any sort of summary for folks coming to the thread to find out what all the fuss was about. Info that could have gone into the OP:
what is it? tropical storm? hurricane? just a lot of rain?
is this normal? special? for what reasons? full moon->high tides + contributing weather systems, other seasonal effects?
who is affected, potentially affected, etc. Here's where you find out and tell us which areas are getting hit the hardest, then ask if any TLers are affected.
Wall Street shut down for weather reasons! Thousands of cancelled flights. What's happening to other businesses?
damage estimates? images that convey the scale of the storm and damage? There's good info all over the place, you just need to filter some of it and put some of the best stuff in the OP.
Good that you put this in a blog, as martyring is a HUGE no-no elsewhere on the site. I'd suggest just taking the warns/bans as indications that the rules are stricter here, not that mods are out to get you. Accept them as mistakes in some form or another and learn from them. Even if you don't agree 100% with the policies enforced, at least you'll know how to post without picking up warnings and bans.
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On October 31 2012 04:24 Fenrax wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 04:09 ThomasjServo wrote:
I'll admit I was a bit surprised at the Hurricane Sandy thread warning, though I didn't get to see the mod's rationale so can't speak with any certainty on that one. The full ban/warning reasons are always in the headline. In this case "still not a good OP".
Good to know, I am still learning a lot of TL basics. I suspected it was because of the short OP, but I think it fostered an entertaining thread nonetheless.
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I am quite surprised that everybody is so locked onto no. 1. It was just a completely useless post, littering precious space on the internet ... well, not so much, but still, it was about nothing and absolutely obvious, so there is no need to defend that. Yes, the "trolling" reason is stupid, but other than that, it's not really worth discussion.
I consider no. 6 much worse. Why is there even a thread about the thing if people can't say that she is doing it wrong? Is it just because the dominant culture on TL is american and there it is taboo to criticise how people look? I think no. 6 is the manifestation of the main problem of the moderation and that is punishing opinions when someone considers the topic "sensitive". But anyway, there is no point in bitching about that either, because several mods have explicitly expressed that they consider this attitude to be the right one, when I was bitching about it earlier.
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On October 31 2012 03:52 zatic wrote:Most of those mod actions are completely fine and in line with TL policy 1) wouldn't happen again today. It was during a temporary campaign to restore the word "trolling" (which failed) 2) borderline, I admit. It IS a bad OP though and those get usually closed. Look at this for a good OP: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376970 3) completely fine 4) completely fine 5) completely fine 6) completely fine
That's the weirdest campaign I've ever heard of. Almost on par with trying to restore the word "literally".
Whose idea was that, anyways?
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On October 31 2012 04:50 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 03:52 zatic wrote:Most of those mod actions are completely fine and in line with TL policy 1) wouldn't happen again today. It was during a temporary campaign to restore the word "trolling" (which failed) 2) borderline, I admit. It IS a bad OP though and those get usually closed. Look at this for a good OP: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376970 3) completely fine 4) completely fine 5) completely fine 6) completely fine That's the weirdest campaign I've ever heard of. Almost on par with trying to restore the word "literally". Whose idea was that, anyways?
JLIG man
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TL is the site, I frequently visit, with the most members that actually care about warnings and bans. I have never encountered such a culture for bitching about bans/warnings. Why does this matter so much to you?
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Be cautious! Too many bans could come back to haunt you if you try to leave the country.
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you forgot this ban:
Fenrax was just temp banned for 1 week by KwarK.
That account was created on 2010-01-04 09:57:33 and had 4104 posts.
Reason:
On October 27 2012 14:06 Fenrax wrote:
go get at least a bit of life.
Enjoy spending the next week getting a life.
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Don't worry. on a scale of 1 to SuperArc you're still well below a CharlieMurphy.
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The sheer fact that you have accumulated soo many warnings / bans itself is beyond reasoning. I've used this account since 2007 and have only recieved a single warning in that timeframe. You would think with all of the times you've been warned / banned you would have an idea of whats going to cause it. BTW your hurricane topic really was empty. You could of at least linked to a few videos of aftermath, or news clips etc. You didnt have to leave it that way, and then bitch when you get called out on it.
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Russian Federation3631 Posts
On October 31 2012 05:24 dAPhREAk wrote:you forgot this ban: Show nested quote +Fenrax was just temp banned for 1 week by KwarK.
That account was created on 2010-01-04 09:57:33 and had 4104 posts.
Reason:
On October 27 2012 14:06 Fenrax wrote:
go get at least a bit of life.
Enjoy spending the next week getting a life.
Obligatory context:
It is good to see at least a few normal people. It gives back a bit faith. The thread is not even worth discussing, we are right they are wrong. I am out and a bit ashamed of my fellow nerds, plz go get at least a bit of life.
In the excellent bastion of good posting, the "Financial Abortions" thread.
I don't know what you think you're going to get out of this, possibly a press conference called by TL staff publically apologizing to you for slandering your reputation as a quality poster?
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I don't see issue with any of these. I also still think TL mods are pretty lax compared to other forums which is a pro or a con depending on how you like forums to be.
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On October 31 2012 05:24 dAPhREAk wrote:you forgot this ban: Show nested quote +Fenrax was just temp banned for 1 week by KwarK.
That account was created on 2010-01-04 09:57:33 and had 4104 posts.
Reason:
On October 27 2012 14:06 Fenrax wrote:
go get at least a bit of life.
Enjoy spending the next week getting a life.
Well, obviously he sees it as justified mod action, since he's saying in his op:
"and some of them were certainly well deserved. [...] Here is my collection of what I think are the worst mod decisions against me:"
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On October 31 2012 06:07 419 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 05:24 dAPhREAk wrote:you forgot this ban: Fenrax was just temp banned for 1 week by KwarK.
That account was created on 2010-01-04 09:57:33 and had 4104 posts.
Reason:
On October 27 2012 14:06 Fenrax wrote:
go get at least a bit of life.
Enjoy spending the next week getting a life. Obligatory context: Show nested quote +It is good to see at least a few normal people. It gives back a bit faith. The thread is not even worth discussing, we are right they are wrong. I am out and a bit ashamed of my fellow nerds, plz go get at least a bit of life. In the excellent bastion of good posting, the "Financial Abortions" thread. I don't know what you think you're going to get out of this, possibly a press conference called by TL staff publically apologizing to you for slandering your reputation as a quality poster?
He had that ban removed after apologizing and editing those posts. That's why you can find him still posting in that thread only hours after he received a one week ban.
For instance, in the MLG case, the other guy was being totally disingenuous (although it's a small comfort that he was nuked for apparently posting nothing but player bashing, besides trapping Fenrax here). He could have said "There is no official free stream" or "this event is PPV only" but instead he posts "Thre're [sic] some free streams  " inviting Fenrax, who in this instance was simply trying to figure out how he could watch some Starcraft, to ask for a link and get banned.
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As a Redditor, and a SCRedditor in particular, it is my solemn duty to always only restate the general opinion within a thread. I do not ever try to add something "contrairy" even especially if it may add content to the discussion.
If you follow the example above and the example below, your chances of offending are greatly reduced, thereby minimizing chances of ban/warning.
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On October 31 2012 07:23 SCRedditor wrote:
As a Redditor, and a SCRedditor in particular, it is my solemn duty to always only restate the general opinion within a thread. I do not ever try to add something "contrairy" even especially if it may add content to the discussion.
If you follow the example above and the example below, your chances of offending are greatly reduced, thereby minimizing chances of ban/warning.
above your post is advertising, which will get you banned. below your post is backseat modding, which will get you banned. ;-)
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Asking for fair moderation on this site is silly. If you're not a well respected member of the community then you'd better not dare post a negative comment/remark about anybody who is and even if you are a well respec...-known member i.e. Naniwa you can still get a ban for a negative comment.
You're basically forced to only circle jerk other community shit or feel the wrath of ban happy mods. These forums are good for reading at times, never for posting.
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Life must be so hard for you
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There has been so much bitching and complaining about moderation these days. Coincidentally the amount of balance whining, flame-baiting, and trolling has also seemed to increase.
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I remember when I got banned for 2 weeks because I said something along the lines of wanting to blow up a Blizzard mapmaker's home. I have since learned my lesson.
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On October 31 2012 07:23 SCRedditor wrote:
As a Redditor, and a SCRedditor in particular, it is my solemn duty to always only restate the general opinion within a thread. I do not ever try to add something "contrairy" even especially if it may add content to the discussion.
If you follow the example above and the example below, your chances of offending are greatly reduced, thereby minimizing chances of ban/warning.
Rofl, I felt the same way when I started posting on TL. I still kinda do, but I feel that if you express yourself in a way that doesn't offend others or sound absolutely ignorant, you'll be fine.
However, this brings up another point of conversation. Should people be banned for having an opinion that goes against the majority? Are there wrong opinions? Going back a month (I think) to the Boy scouts thread, what if someone said "I believe that gay men are more likely to end up pedophiles than gay men". Would he get banned for stating his opinion, even if others do view it as ignorant?
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United States5162 Posts
On October 31 2012 10:33 Epishade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 07:23 SCRedditor wrote:
As a Redditor, and a SCRedditor in particular, it is my solemn duty to always only restate the general opinion within a thread. I do not ever try to add something "contrairy" even especially if it may add content to the discussion.
If you follow the example above and the example below, your chances of offending are greatly reduced, thereby minimizing chances of ban/warning. Rofl, I felt the same way when I started posting on TL. I still kinda do, but I feel that if you express yourself in a way that doesn't offend others or sound absolutely ignorant, you'll be fine. However, this brings up another point of conversation. Should people be banned for having an opinion that goes against the majority? Are there wrong opinions? Going back a month (I think) to the Boy scouts thread, what if someone said "I believe that gay men are more likely to end up pedophiles than gay men". Would he get banned for stating his opinion, even if others do view it as ignorant?
Funny you bring that up as a question when there was a long website feedback thread about someone being banned for saying that exact thing. So yes, you will likely be banned if you have a bigoted opinion. TL will kick you out the same as if you were somebody's house and they didn't like what you were saying.
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On October 31 2012 10:39 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 10:33 Epishade wrote:On October 31 2012 07:23 SCRedditor wrote:
As a Redditor, and a SCRedditor in particular, it is my solemn duty to always only restate the general opinion within a thread. I do not ever try to add something "contrairy" even especially if it may add content to the discussion.
If you follow the example above and the example below, your chances of offending are greatly reduced, thereby minimizing chances of ban/warning. Rofl, I felt the same way when I started posting on TL. I still kinda do, but I feel that if you express yourself in a way that doesn't offend others or sound absolutely ignorant, you'll be fine. However, this brings up another point of conversation. Should people be banned for having an opinion that goes against the majority? Are there wrong opinions? Going back a month (I think) to the Boy scouts thread, what if someone said "I believe that gay men are more likely to end up pedophiles than gay men". Would he get banned for stating his opinion, even if others do view it as ignorant? Funny you bring that up as a question when there was a long website feedback thread about someone being banned for saying that exact thing. So yes, you will likely be banned if you have a bigoted opinion. TL will kick you out the same as if you were somebody's house and they didn't like what you were saying.
There were actually quite a surprising amount of people who shared that opinion in that thread. The only people I saw getting moderated for it though expressed that opinion in a less than polite way. epishade is pretty much correct in my experience with mods in that as long as your opinion is stated respectfully you should be fine.
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a thread belongs to the people within it, and they are perfectly capable in most cases of moderating themselves and each other. if you arent participating in the thread then in the majority of cases you should mind your own business. if you dont like what someone says or how they say it and you're not part of the conversation then its none of your business. if you have something to say then by all means join in the thread and have your say just like everyone else. if things get out of hand then you can intervene, otherwise you should consider yourself just another poster and should respect other people and their threads and not impose yourself like you are high above everyone else.
mods are supposed to be here to intervene; not interfere.
i also think the policy on "no backseat moderation" (sic) is outdated. posters should know it is okay to criticise other posters in a mature fashion. if someone is getting out of hand in a discussion then participants in the discussion have every right to advise that person without worrying that they themselves will get in trouble for saying something. a mature conversation allows for this. moderators should respect this and remember that they are here to intervene when there are serious breeches of the rules and not to otherwise interfere except with their capacity as a regular poster
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United States5162 Posts
On October 31 2012 10:49 heliusx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 10:39 Myles wrote:On October 31 2012 10:33 Epishade wrote:On October 31 2012 07:23 SCRedditor wrote:
As a Redditor, and a SCRedditor in particular, it is my solemn duty to always only restate the general opinion within a thread. I do not ever try to add something "contrairy" even especially if it may add content to the discussion.
If you follow the example above and the example below, your chances of offending are greatly reduced, thereby minimizing chances of ban/warning. Rofl, I felt the same way when I started posting on TL. I still kinda do, but I feel that if you express yourself in a way that doesn't offend others or sound absolutely ignorant, you'll be fine. However, this brings up another point of conversation. Should people be banned for having an opinion that goes against the majority? Are there wrong opinions? Going back a month (I think) to the Boy scouts thread, what if someone said "I believe that gay men are more likely to end up pedophiles than gay men". Would he get banned for stating his opinion, even if others do view it as ignorant? Funny you bring that up as a question when there was a long website feedback thread about someone being banned for saying that exact thing. So yes, you will likely be banned if you have a bigoted opinion. TL will kick you out the same as if you were somebody's house and they didn't like what you were saying. There were actually quite a surprising amount of people who shared that opinion in that thread. The only people I saw getting moderated for it though expressed that opinion in a less than polite way. epishade is pretty much correct in my experience with mods in that as long as your opinion is stated respectfully you should be fine.
How you say it certainly matters, but sometimes the opinion is so egregious it doesn't matter how respectful it's worded.
I've also found that people with bigoted opinions generally don't express them in a respectful way, so it kind of goes hand in hand
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On October 31 2012 07:25 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 07:23 SCRedditor wrote:
As a Redditor, and a SCRedditor in particular, it is my solemn duty to always only restate the general opinion within a thread. I do not ever try to add something "contrairy" even especially if it may add content to the discussion.
If you follow the example above and the example below, your chances of offending are greatly reduced, thereby minimizing chances of ban/warning. above your post is advertising, which will get you banned. below your post is backseat modding, which will get you banned. ;-)
You have 20 seconds to decide and your family is being watched, what do you do? WHAT DO YOU DO?!
Hm, I guess I can sort of sympathize (not necessarily empathize though lol) with Fenrax though, moderation will never be 100% consistent but I've definitely seen people get away with more, and can see why he might be a bit ticked off.
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Why make a blog about this? You really must have a ton of time on your hands to write a wall of text concerning your bans and warnings and complaining about them. Nothing is perfect, including modding, mods aren't robots. And be glad you aren't perm banned and that you're still talking, you're still unbanned and yet you seem pretty ungrateful for it.
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RE: #5: Your PM's get ignored? O_o That's a darn-awful shame if folks don't reply to those bright yellow notifications you send them.
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On October 31 2012 10:33 Epishade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 07:23 SCRedditor wrote:
As a Redditor, and a SCRedditor in particular, it is my solemn duty to always only restate the general opinion within a thread. I do not ever try to add something "contrairy" even especially if it may add content to the discussion.
If you follow the example above and the example below, your chances of offending are greatly reduced, thereby minimizing chances of ban/warning. Rofl, I felt the same way when I started posting on TL. I still kinda do, but I feel that if you express yourself in a way that doesn't offend others or sound absolutely ignorant, you'll be fine.
No, you can get banned for the most trivial reasons. "A friend of mine" once got banned and he told me so.
I think the best/safest way is to only use the strategy forums, and only read guides and ask questions. Do not try to answer questions if you aren't a pro might get banned for giving advice if you are not pro so best play it safe.
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I've had a ban in a legitimate discussion for 'trolling'. I still have no clue how they came up with that decision. Maybe a mod had a bad day and had an urge to ban someone. I remember being angry, but I don't care anymore.
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I've gotten warnings for stuff in the past that would in 99% of other cases have been a temp ban -- regardless of whether or not it really should warrant a ban.. I guess it goes both ways.
On October 31 2012 12:13 sorrowptoss wrote:
Why make a blog about this? You really must have a ton of time on your hands to write a wall of text concerning your bans and warnings and complaining about them. Nothing is perfect, including modding, mods aren't robots. And be glad you aren't perm banned and that you're still talking, you're still unbanned and yet you seem pretty ungrateful for it.
Who are you to judge what he spends his time posting and what warrants discussion?
On October 31 2012 12:45 SCRedditor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 10:33 Epishade wrote:On October 31 2012 07:23 SCRedditor wrote:
As a Redditor, and a SCRedditor in particular, it is my solemn duty to always only restate the general opinion within a thread. I do not ever try to add something "contrairy" even especially if it may add content to the discussion.
If you follow the example above and the example below, your chances of offending are greatly reduced, thereby minimizing chances of ban/warning. Rofl, I felt the same way when I started posting on TL. I still kinda do, but I feel that if you express yourself in a way that doesn't offend others or sound absolutely ignorant, you'll be fine. No, you can get banned for the most trivial reasons. "A friend of mine" once got banned and he told me so. I think the best/safest way is to only use the strategy forums, and only read guides and ask questions. Do not try to answer questions if you aren't a pro might get banned for giving advice if you are not pro so best play it safe.
Or just don't try to answer a question you aren't completely confident in knowing the answer to; an awareness which should extend beyond your own experiences in SC2. If someone says you're wrong, you should be able to defend it. If theres the most minute hesitation in attempting to offer advice, chances are you're stretching it and shouldn't post.
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I generally assume when I get warned that EvilTelletubby is drunk, or that I genuinely stepped over a line. In that order. And then i re-evaluate it the next day.
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Zurich15324 Posts
On October 31 2012 10:58 FFGenerations wrote:
i also think the policy on "no backseat moderation" (sic) is outdated. posters should know it is okay to criticise other posters in a mature fashion.
Criticizing someone is not backseat moderating, and if done in a mature fashions as you say is perfectly ok.
Backseat moderating is telling people what they must and must not do publicly, assuming the role of a moderator. If you just want to help someone out with TL site rules simply PM them about it.
On October 31 2012 10:33 Epishade wrote:
However, this brings up another point of conversation. Should people be banned for having an opinion that goes against the majority?
Not generally, no. If that opinion happens to be grossly racist, homophobic, misogynistic or otherwise against commandment no 2 then, yes, they should be banned.
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On October 31 2012 12:45 SCRedditor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 10:33 Epishade wrote:On October 31 2012 07:23 SCRedditor wrote:
As a Redditor, and a SCRedditor in particular, it is my solemn duty to always only restate the general opinion within a thread. I do not ever try to add something "contrairy" even especially if it may add content to the discussion.
If you follow the example above and the example below, your chances of offending are greatly reduced, thereby minimizing chances of ban/warning. Rofl, I felt the same way when I started posting on TL. I still kinda do, but I feel that if you express yourself in a way that doesn't offend others or sound absolutely ignorant, you'll be fine. No, you can get banned for the most trivial reasons. "A friend of mine" once got banned and he told me so. I think the best/safest way is to only use the strategy forums, and only read guides and ask questions. Do not try to answer questions if you aren't a pro might get banned for giving advice if you are not pro so best play it safe.
Don't be moron, don't get banned. It's really not that difficult not to get banned...I've gotten warned 3? 4? I forget how many times ...lol...but they were all pretty justified. You won't get banned for having the minority opinion, I'm a good example of that - I posted a lot in some of the "police shoots dude" threads and backed the police instead of the sensationalist media, and I wasn't banned for not agreeing with a majority of the people in there.
Really, other than #1, I agree with all of the mod actions, but I remember the context...at one point TL was plagued with "troll", kind of like "killing ESPORTS" as it is now...that was one post made in the time of kill-everyone-who-says-troll era :p
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Just because someone else escapes moderation, does not mean you should. There's a lot of shit on this site to moderate, some of it is doubtlessly going to slip through the cracks. This does not excuse it as acceptable behaviour.
Using someone else as excuse for your own unacceptable posting is not a good reason. The two day bans are probably a result of your history of warnings. Repeat offenders are probably not going to be given the benefit of the doubt. That just makes sense.
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Even if you got banned/warned, it's really not going to do you much good to complain about it. Most casual readers will be unsympathetic towards your cause, giving golden tidbits of advice, such as "Get over it" and "Suck it up". The moderators themselves aren't going to give you any love for publicly posting your grievances against their rulings, so who are you left with?
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I guess at the end of the day its their house. I don't agree with everything, but it could be much worse.
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
Like this
What the fuck? How is this a ban? He simply told in a joking way his opinion that politics are involved in Rain's withdrawal and that it would be naive to believe in coincidences. Call me ridiculous or whiny but these things bother me.
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Zurich15324 Posts
He was not banned for that post. I edited out the text to avoid confusion.
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You could just not visit TL at all. I mean, what's stopping you? If you find the mods that distasteful, just avoid them. I personally think there needs to be more and stricter moderation, there's so much shit in every general forum thread. And sc2redditor, yes, when you post like an idiot, you will be banned.
And it's just pathetic that you would kill one of the better threads on here, just to express your belief that the TL mods are douchebags and nazis.
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On November 01 2012 23:44 Fenrax wrote:Like thisWhat the fuck? How is this a ban? He simply told in a joking way his opinion that politics are involved in Rain's withdrawal and that it would be naive to believe in coincidences. Call me ridiculous or whiny but these things bother me.
ok.
You're being ridiculous and whiny.
I feel like more people would agree with mod actions than disagree with them. There's a lot of people that get off without a ban/warning that I would take action on if I were a moderator, so at least you now know it could be worse.
I mean, you weren't banned for expressing dislike of the moderation staff's actions, that has to count for something right?
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I'd consider you lucky. Half your recent posts in the last few days are calling mods nazis and douchebags. And basically calling them out over and over in random threads, you're the 1%!
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*get warned for bad OP*
*makes blog, gets told by everyone that the warning was justified*
*whines*
*destroys own thread that had 10K + views in the past week*
*starts cherrypicking posts in past threads to prove point*
I think you may just be in the wrong here Fenrax.
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On November 02 2012 01:14 Praetorial wrote:
*get warned for bad OP*
*makes blog, gets told by everyone that the warning was justified*
*whines*
*destroys own thread that had 10K + views in the past week*
*starts cherrypicking posts in past threads to prove point*
I think you may just be in the wrong here Fenrax.
You already tried to make your point in a previous post. No one responded. Let it go man.
Honestly OP, it just seems like it's a run of bad luck for you. Obviously, we have little in the way of understanding the thought process of whatever mod is currently making a ruling on your post. I hate saying this, because I hate the people that always support the red names just because they're red, but the mods here are actually quite good.
I remember in high school I started a web site with a couple of friends. It was going to be a website where only the intellectual could post. Anyone who cluttered threads with poorly constructed arguments or stupid one liners, was going to be instantly banned. But as the site grew, it became SO much work to meet that standard. TL has about a billion times more traffic than we had. I can't imagine how much effort it must be to sift through all the crap that gets posted here.
And unfortunately, unless someone actually clicks the "report" button, a lot of garbage gets away unscathed.
In general, I would call you a quality poster. You're a good guy that's interested in being a significant contributor to this site. Just continue to post with that same mind frame, and people will come to recognize your worth. Not much else to say, just keep plugging away.
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I got a temp ban for having an interesting opinion...
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I got a temp ban for having an interesting opinion
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On November 02 2012 03:16 meltingmykohchoo wrote:
I got a temp ban for having an interesting opinion
You wrote
On October 01 2012 23:53 meltingmykohchoo wrote:
Fun
User was temp banned for this post.
In a thread about rape. A one word reply that added nothing. I have no sympathy for you.
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I got banned for 2 days for complaining about a warning once...just sayin
edit: and by "just sayin" i mean don't be surprised if it happens to you (not being a smartass again! learned my lesson once lol)
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The mods are a bunch of kids on power trips. You'll get the warns for anything they don't like, whether it's a rule or not. Welcome to TL.
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Psssh I have waaaaay more valid grievances than this.
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TLADT24920 Posts
I've been on TL for a while. I don't post as much as I used to when I first started posting here but in my stay so far, I haven't had a single warning. I tend to stick to the rule of be polite, respectful and careful what you post. As long as what I posted isn't offensive and makes sense, etc... I don't think I'll even get a warning
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On October 31 2012 02:44 felisconcolori wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 02:24 Torte de Lini wrote:
My advice: suck it up.
We've all gotten our fair share of disagreeing warnings and bans. I haven't. But I also haven't been around as long - and I'm fully aware that anything posted on the internet lives forever, so maybe I think two or three times about it. Also, complaining about moderation never ends well. Everyone thinks of the internet as a land of free speech, where you can say anything, and that's not true. The internet is a collection of dictatorships enmeshed in communications. Most of the dictators (moderators/site owners/etc) are benevolent, generally cool, and open to things. But they are still completely in control, you have no "rights", and the only brakes or balances of power are amongst them. This has been true since Arpanet.
Hushhhh don't speak such words! They have eyes and ears everywhere...
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TL mods have always been trigger happy. Some of them will play favorites too, ban randoms but let their friends slide.
Rekrul was a mod, and he banned people just for the thrill; because he was on a power trip. He finally lost his mod powers after a few years of his abuse.
They do it under the guise of keeping a "productive forum". Yet I participate in many forums that don't have nearly the level of moderation, they are all successful and have good discussion.
I thought SC gamers were "mature" and "smart". The mods here don't seem to think so.
It's funny, the average user here is like 18-25 according to google statistics, yet we are treated like children.
News flash: TL isn't what it is because of the moderation. It is so successful because there wasn't much good competition at the time it was created(gosugamers and some crappy strat sites). TL had news, progamers, a cleaner layout, streams, etc.
Why do people become mods? Think about that for a minute..
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On December 24 2012 18:24 guN-viCe wrote:
TL mods have always been trigger happy. Some of them will play favorites too, ban randoms but let their friends slide.
Rekrul was a mod, and he banned people just for the thrill; because he was on a power trip. He finally lost his mod powers after a few years of his abuse.
They do it under the guise of keeping a "productive forum". Yet I participate in many forums that don't have nearly the level of moderation, they are all successful and have good discussion.
I thought SC gamers were "mature" and "smart". The mods here don't seem to think so.
It's funny, the average user here is like 18-25 according to google statistics, yet we are treated like children.
News flash: TL isn't what it is because of the moderation. It is so successful because there wasn't much good competition at the time it was created(gosugamers and some crappy strat sites). TL had news, progamers, a cleaner layout, streams, etc.
Why do people become mods? Think about that for a minute..
Considering how many shit posters there are, if there was no moderation I bet many users wouldn't even bother posting on this site because it would be full of immature trolling dipshits. That's literally all TL would be if there was no banning whatsoever, pure trolling, balance whine every page of every single thread.
There would be consistent player bashing, caster bashing, pretty much bashing of everything.
Yeah I am so happy TL is strict about their moderating, it makes the forums not so god awful like reddit for example.
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On December 24 2012 18:59 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 18:24 guN-viCe wrote:
TL mods have always been trigger happy. Some of them will play favorites too, ban randoms but let their friends slide.
Rekrul was a mod, and he banned people just for the thrill; because he was on a power trip. He finally lost his mod powers after a few years of his abuse.
They do it under the guise of keeping a "productive forum". Yet I participate in many forums that don't have nearly the level of moderation, they are all successful and have good discussion.
I thought SC gamers were "mature" and "smart". The mods here don't seem to think so.
It's funny, the average user here is like 18-25 according to google statistics, yet we are treated like children.
News flash: TL isn't what it is because of the moderation. It is so successful because there wasn't much good competition at the time it was created(gosugamers and some crappy strat sites). TL had news, progamers, a cleaner layout, streams, etc.
Why do people become mods? Think about that for a minute.. Considering how many shit posters there are, if there was no moderation I bet many users wouldn't even bother posting on this site because it would be full of immature trolling dipshits. That's literally all TL would be if there was no banning whatsoever, pure trolling, balance whine every page of every single thread. There would be consistent player bashing, caster bashing, pretty much bashing of everything. Yeah I am so happy TL is strict about their moderating, it makes the forums not so god awful like reddit for example.
I know another SC2 forum like that...
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Thank god they are so strict in moderating, otherwise id be posting alot more and so would alot of other bad posters!
User was banned for this post.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Y8gS4.jpg)
