Certainly seeing those videos was shocking - that woman probably couldn't walk right for a week just from that one deadlift, her back was literally concave - but you've based your argument around a small number of anecdotes that isn't particularly convincing.
A proper trainer (in crossfit or otherwise) will not allow you to sacrifice form for reps. The "trainers" who are allowing this to happen cannot possibly be certified personal trainers, or if they are, they fell through the cracks that should have taken them out in school. To put it simply, they're bad hires that probably reflect mostly on the lack of quality control in crossfit's hiring process.
Similarly, there is no "magic bullet" to getting big. The examples of people who couldn't even squat twice their body weight in two years would be more convincing if we could speak to them, and get an assessment as to how seriously they were taking their training. When I was younger, I lifted for years and never improved, simply because I didn't have good form or followup (in terms of cooldown and recovery). I didn't take it seriously. A crossfit trainer isn't responsible for making sure their people actually follow through on their recovery.
I'm not saying that any of the anecdotes you've posted here are excusable, and I'm not saying that the gyms which allowed that to happen should be anything but shut down. But the core of crossfit is not "As many Olympic-style lifts as possible in a limited time period," it's essentially a guided, varied set of circuit lifts and cardio exercises using certified trainers for motivation and education, and a prepared schedule of WODs to prevent your muscles from getting used to the exercises. All you've really shown here is that many crossfit gyms implement this poorly, and I agree - if your crossfit gym is doing this, quit immediately.
On August 17 2012 00:22 Vega62a wrote: Certainly seeing those videos was shocking - that woman probably couldn't walk right for a week just from that one deadlift, her back was literally concave - but you've based your argument around a small number of anecdotes that isn't particularly convincing.
A proper trainer (in crossfit or otherwise) will not allow you to sacrifice form for reps. The "trainers" who are allowing this to happen cannot possibly be certified personal trainers, or if they are, they fell through the cracks that should have taken them out in school. To put it simply, they're bad hires that probably reflect mostly on the lack of quality control in crossfit's hiring process.
Similarly, there is no "magic bullet" to getting big. The examples of people who couldn't even squat twice their body weight in two years would be more convincing if we could speak to them, and get an assessment as to how seriously they were taking their training. When I was younger, I lifted for years and never improved, simply because I didn't have good form or followup (in terms of cooldown and recovery). I didn't take it seriously. A crossfit trainer isn't responsible for making sure their people actually follow through on their recovery.
I'm not saying that any of the anecdotes you've posted here are excusable, and I'm not saying that the gyms which allowed that to happen should be anything but shut down. But the core of crossfit is not "As many Olympic-style lifts as possible in a limited time period," it's essentially a guided, varied set of circuit lifts and cardio exercises using certified trainers for motivation and education, and a prepared schedule of WODs to prevent your muscles from getting used to the exercises. All you've really shown here is that many crossfit gyms implement this poorly, and I agree - if your crossfit gym is doing this, quit immediately.
Only one of OP's points is that crossfit is dangerous. I agree, if you're working with professional PT's who know form then you won't hurt yourself doing crossfit. However, OP's other major point is that crossfit is inefficient; this is definitely true.
Not only is this the most brosciency thing that I have ever read, it is flat out incorrect. Someone should really tell Layne Norton:
That his "neuroendocrine response" is "blunted." If only he could get that crossfit anabolic punch!!!
Bodybuilding workouts are solely built around the concept of creating muscle mass. WOD's are designed to ....shock muscles or build speed or something? I'm not honestly sure because I don't do crossfit, but they just aren't as effective as a traditional bodybuilding split.
My girlfriend is doing a branch of crossfit (Crossfit 2.2 - basically a gym idea run by some personal trainers which has an extremely good reputation around town and uses the WOD style). From my understanding the idea of WODs is that they're a mix of traditional bodybuilding and cardio workouts, and the reason they are varied is to avoid the decrease in efficiency that arises from using the same types of motion in exercise.
I don't think the idea behind crossfit is efficiency, though. I'll totally buy that there are better ways to get extremely strong if that's your goal, and you're right, that was some shameless broscience right there. I think the point is more motivation and support and structure - most people who are deep into bodybuilding don't understand this, because those people have the motivation (and support) that they need already. Motivation can be a hard thing to come by.
I'm not necessarily defending much of what was discussed in the OP, to be honest. The website is misleading, and the examples he found were disgusting. Somebody who really wants to become a bodybuilder and has the motivation, but not the knowledge, should invest in a few sessions of personal training from someone reputable, take notes, and go from there. The biggest reason I can't dismiss crossfit as "lol don't do it" is because of the motivation, structure, support, and community it provides to people who aren't looking to get ripped, but only get in shape, and haven't had success elsewhere.
On August 17 2012 00:22 Vega62a wrote: Certainly seeing those videos was shocking - that woman probably couldn't walk right for a week just from that one deadlift, her back was literally concave - but you've based your argument around a small number of anecdotes that isn't particularly convincing.
A proper trainer (in crossfit or otherwise) will not allow you to sacrifice form for reps. The "trainers" who are allowing this to happen cannot possibly be certified personal trainers, or if they are, they fell through the cracks that should have taken them out in school. To put it simply, they're bad hires that probably reflect mostly on the lack of quality control in crossfit's hiring process.
Similarly, there is no "magic bullet" to getting big. The examples of people who couldn't even squat twice their body weight in two years would be more convincing if we could speak to them, and get an assessment as to how seriously they were taking their training. When I was younger, I lifted for years and never improved, simply because I didn't have good form or followup (in terms of cooldown and recovery). I didn't take it seriously. A crossfit trainer isn't responsible for making sure their people actually follow through on their recovery.
I'm not saying that any of the anecdotes you've posted here are excusable, and I'm not saying that the gyms which allowed that to happen should be anything but shut down. But the core of crossfit is not "As many Olympic-style lifts as possible in a limited time period," it's essentially a guided, varied set of circuit lifts and cardio exercises using certified trainers for motivation and education, and a prepared schedule of WODs to prevent your muscles from getting used to the exercises. All you've really shown here is that many crossfit gyms implement this poorly, and I agree - if your crossfit gym is doing this, quit immediately.
Only one of OP's points is that crossfit is dangerous. I agree, if you're working with professional PT's who know form then you won't hurt yourself doing crossfit. However, OP's other major point is that crossfit is inefficient; this is definitely true.
Not only is this the most brosciency thing that I have ever read, it is flat out incorrect. Someone should really tell Layne Norton:
That his "neuroendocrine response" is "blunted." If only he could get that crossfit anabolic punch!!!
Bodybuilding workouts are solely built around the concept of creating muscle mass. WOD's are designed to ....shock muscles or build speed or something? I'm not honestly sure because I don't do crossfit, but they just aren't as effective as a traditional bodybuilding split.
Ya that's the most broscience and wrong thing ever.
The Crossfit community now emphasizes form with intensity. I see a lot of guys in the gym working out for 2 hours a day in the gym. Sure, their form is great, but the effort and intesity isn't. They're wasting their time in my opinion. A lot of the innovators in Crossfit used to emphasize reps over form, but that isn't the case today. Today, all the top-tier talents are ephasizing form with intensity to hit their goals. Not practicing good form does not help you hit your fitness goals as fast.
Ony of the big issues is Crossfit has grown so fast. 10 years ago, nobody had a clue what Crossfit was. Today, there are 4,440 Crossfit gyms. Obviously, everyone has their own spin/bro science on how to Crossfit. If you set tough but realistic goals, push yourself, and work with the right trainer, I think you will see the benefits.
Hope this merits a post despite the length of time between posts.
I gained 25 pounds of lean mass in 6 months doing crossfit.
I've been in the gym for 2 years, doing it after the book and I only gained about 10 pounds of lean mass and about 10 pounds of fat.
Crossfit is not dangerous, but it will be for the people who have no clue and no weight lifting skills, luckily there are beginner workouts, so everyone can get the proper skills. Doing it the old fashioned way doesn't mean it's the best way. Never before have I been more motivated than when I started to Crossfit. It is the first thing I think about when I wake up and the last when I go to sleep.
You're totally biased, you've not been to a proper crossfit Gym and you hate on the people doing crossfit due to that it works.
I'm not saying Crossfit is the best, there is a workout method for every purpose. The best overall fitness you will get by doing crossfit. The military does it, the firefighters does it. I rest my case.
On July 08 2013 00:05 oliverg wrote: I gained 25 pounds of lean mass in 6 months doing crossfit.
I've been in the gym for 2 years, doing it after the book and I only gained about 10 pounds of lean mass and about 10 pounds of fat.
Crossfit is not dangerous, but it will be for the people who have no clue and no weight lifting skills, luckily there are beginner workouts, so everyone can get the proper skills. Doing it the old fashioned way doesn't mean it's the best way. Never before have I been more motivated than when I started to Crossfit. It is the first thing I think about when I wake up and the last when I go to sleep.
You're totally biased, you've not been to a proper crossfit Gym and you hate on the people doing crossfit due to that it works.
I'm not saying Crossfit is the best, there is a workout method for every purpose. The best overall fitness you will get by doing crossfit. The military does it, the firefighters does it. I rest my case.
"If you disagree with their training philosophy you're just a HATER who clearly hates the people themselves doing the training, not the training regime themselves." I mean just look at one of their slogans. "Our warmup is your workout" HOW IS THAT A GOOD THING WHEN YOU'RE WEIGHTLIFTING. That's only asking for a ticket to snap city. Weiightlifting is supposed to be a slow and steady process, not cardio. Deadlifts aren't cardio.
I have never seen anyone that doesn't work for Crossfit or has spent their money on Crossfit defend Crossfits training regime. Not once. Oddly enough, I've seen plenty of people who haven't done Madcow, SL5x5, SS, and so forth swear by it to lifters who want to try it out. The issue with Crossfit is that it's about going from Point A to Point B. How you get there is completely irrelevant to them. It's just getting there. That's incredibly dangerous.
Also, 25 pounds in lean muscle mass in 6 months? LOL that's physically impossible no matter what program you're doing. Holy shit you're so full of crap it's hurting my sides. The fact you "only" gained 10 pounds of lean muscle mass in two years isn't because you weren't doing crossfit. You probably just had a shitty fucking regime without many compound lifts. More likely, you were probably eating terribly. Crossfit isn't some magic program that lets you defy the laws of physics.
P.S. - This first video was posted on the official CrossFit channel. What she is doing are officially sanctioned CrossFit pullups.
On July 08 2013 00:05 oliverg wrote: I gained 25 pounds of lean mass in 6 months doing crossfit.
I've been in the gym for 2 years, doing it after the book and I only gained about 10 pounds of lean mass and about 10 pounds of fat.
Crossfit is not dangerous, but it will be for the people who have no clue and no weight lifting skills, luckily there are beginner workouts, so everyone can get the proper skills. Doing it the old fashioned way doesn't mean it's the best way. Never before have I been more motivated than when I started to Crossfit. It is the first thing I think about when I wake up and the last when I go to sleep.
You're totally biased, you've not been to a proper crossfit Gym and you hate on the people doing crossfit due to that it works.
I'm not saying Crossfit is the best, there is a workout method for every purpose. The best overall fitness you will get by doing crossfit. The military does it, the firefighters does it. I rest my case.
Strong 1st post, strong bump, strong everything lmao
As douchey and potentially unsafe as Crossfit is, it sure produces some nice looking physiques on women. Sure the same could be achieved with proper lifting and cardio, but there's an idiotic stigma that even picking up a weight will make a woman look like a steroided man.
On July 08 2013 02:44 Mothra wrote: As douchey and potentially unsafe as Crossfit is, it sure produces some nice looking physiques on women. Sure the same could be achieved with proper lifting and cardio, but there's an idiotic stigma that even picking up a weight will make a woman look like a steroided man.
Any amount of strong lifting will produce awesome physiques on women.
I have to agree though that CrossFit sure has done at least one good thing and that is remove the stigma you describe.
Amazing! Did you guys come up with these thoughts all by yourself??? Maybe you should start talking about rhabdo! That's a new one! Here's a video!
Lets all blast away on this. Oh wait we cant because commenting on bicep curls won't get us any attention we are so desperate for! Yes CrossFit IS Strength and Con.....!! SO WHAT! It has always been and has claimed to be S&C. We use S&C, linear progression and periodization, corrective exercises. If you think we take Joe off the street in and have them do Fran the next week, haters, you are delusional! My members come in with goals and reach them with hard work and clean living. Hey I got a good idea... Lets go beefcake with 3 sets of 10 for everything, hit one part of the body 6 times in the same workout (HA! and we get blamed for overuse and high reps), then before our 'competition' lets NOT drink water and carb DEPLETE. The only 'sport' involving muscle that gets that backwards!!
I physically cringed at that deadlift video, I knew crossfit was bad everytime I see them kipping but holy crap that girl is going to blow her back out.
EPT![[image loading]](http://shaneleighton.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/WTF.jpg)
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