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On July 05 2012 20:44 EnE wrote:
I don't hate LoL because of the game itself, I hate it because its a fucking shitty spectator sport.
It has so so many more players than sc2 but still barely manages double the tournament views.... we don't WANT a game like that to grow, because it could never grow Esports.... think of if LoL captured 10% of the Western population compared to if Sc2 captured 10% of the western population.... E-sports would be like 20 times as big with Sc2. if a game like sc2 blows up even more and becomes ENORMOUS, then that will simultaneously explode e-sports to the same level because it's a competitive spectator game. If a game like LoL where seemingly 1/1000 of the people even bother to watch a tourney stream becomes ENORMOUS, it'll just suck life from other E-sports...sad but true.
You need to not only be a Moba fan but also know all the intricacies of LOL to understand what the fuck is going on. It just doesn't work to be a widespread E-sport.
In sc2, you can appreciate a tank blasting a marine without knowing the HP of the marine, the DPS of the tank and taking into account their upgrades, etc. In lol, your not gonna have a clue what any of the random coloured lights mean if you DON'T ALREADY PLAY THE GAME.
Honestly I'm pretty sure you're just completely wrong, and that your last point is entirely the opposite for exactly the reasoning you use. Your own personal favoritism and opinions are so negatively clouding your judgement.
now that im not at work, i can elaborate.
Watching LoL is SO MUCH easier than watching SC2. I dont need to be even REMOTELY aware of the 80 different units, their abilities, and their weaknesses.
There are at most 10 units to be aware of (as if any total newbie is going to give a fuck about the support characters.) They'll be aware they have spells that do damage, or just hack at people with their swords.
how do you possibly contend that a game with more viewers is the worse spectator sport
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On July 05 2012 23:16 Probe1 wrote:
I was wondering where this was coming from until I got to "Talk shows".
Let me address people and casters separately.
People do need to shut up about LoL. I don't play MOBAs but if I did I would be thoroughly annoyed by people constantly bashing my game simply because it exists simultaneously alongside my game. Just like how BW vs SC2 gets.. -_-. Anyway it's not cool and I'm fine if people get temp'd or whatever when they drag threads off topic with whine about a different game. That's fine.
Casters however, I don't use the same term to describe talk show hosts and guests.. If like, Wolf and Khaldor just paused for a minute in the middle of a broadcast to shout "LOL SUCKS LULZ" it would be one thing but from what I think you're referring to, SotG type shows, who cares. They have to fill their overly long shows with some kind of conversation and it's rarely good anyway. Just ignore it.
However casters should avoid bashing LoL during actual casting (during actual games) of course.
Sorry the community here is a dick at times but the community is a dick to everyone at times.
I don't play MOBAs either because it's not really my cup of tea but I don't go out of my way to take a dump on what they like or dislike.
There are a lot and I mean a lot of hypocrites out there, but why would I care what some of these casters or people say on their talk shows? Their opinions don't mean much of anything at all. That's why I barely pay any attention to them.
I just laugh because laughing is awesome and very healthy at the same time =)
If they want to be immature about it. Let them. It's on them and not you.
If they want to be a dick. Let them be a dick.
Later on perhaps they'll look back on it and learn from it.
Or not. In either case it's their problem.
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I can almost guarantee that LoLs success is based entirely off of the fact that it is free to play. I'm not sure if anybody would be playing it today if it was released as a $30 game, or even a $20 game. The reason for that? It is designed in a way that is amateurish and uninteresting to watch. That's also the reason that despite its seemingly collosul playerbase on a tiny proportion of them actually watch streams and tournaments.
I can see why a lot of people are bitter about it possibly becoming a leading e-sport when almost anybody who has never played the game would instantly turn away from e-sports after watching a LoL match for 5 minutes.
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StarStruck I suppose the problem is some people take encouragement from faces on stream and continue the bashing on the site. I guess that was the point of the OP at least. In my own opinion, people that bash on LoL get banned pretty fast if it's ridiculously off topic or irrelevant. And yeah, I only pay attention to talk shows about Starcraft when there's some big (empty) controversy surrounding something like the avilo stuff or the GESL stuff that's coming up [expect that one soon lol]
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SC2 fans sure are angry that their game has fallen short of expectations, both in Korea and outside of it.
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On July 06 2012 02:17 koreasilver wrote:
SC2 fans sure are angry that their game has fallen short of expectations, both in Korea and outside of it.
Most do it out of jealousy anyway. "WHY ISN'T STARCRAFT TOO AS POPULAR WHEN IT IS THE GREATEST ESPORTS IN THE WORLD?!!"
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Riot cares more about esports than Blizzard!!11!
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On July 06 2012 01:18 LucidityDark wrote:
I can almost guarantee that LoLs success is based entirely off of the fact that it is free to play. I'm not sure if anybody would be playing it today if it was released as a $30 game, or even a $20 game. The reason for that? It is designed in a way that is amateurish and uninteresting to watch. That's also the reason that despite its seemingly collosul playerbase on a tiny proportion of them actually watch streams and tournaments.
I can see why a lot of people are bitter about it possibly becoming a leading e-sport when almost anybody who has never played the game would instantly turn away from e-sports after watching a LoL match for 5 minutes.
I can 100% guarantee that SC2's success is based entirely on its name. I'm not sure anybody would be playing it today if it wasn't released by Blizzard. The reason for that ? It's designed in a way that is amateurish and uninteresting to play. That's also the reason that despite its seemingly collosus viewerbase on a tiny proportion of them actually play the game.
I can see why a lot of people are bitter about it possibly becoming a leading e-sport when almost anybody who has played the game would instantly turn away from e-sports after 5 mins.
Too easy to caricature.
There are plenty of other free to play games out there. Seems like LoL is more fun to play and watch than most of them.
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I don't think disliking LoL goes against what we are all about, this being a starcraft community site I'm sure the majority of us mostly just care about starcraft. LoL gaining popularity barely has any effect on sc2 negatively or positively, so I'd prefer if the communities remained separate so that I don't have to see LoL stuff mixed in with sc2 information. It could also get even worse if tournaments decided to randomly switch back and forth between showing LoL matches and sc2 matches on one stream to try and get cross viewership. I hate LoL and I love sc2, I couldn't care less about "esports" because sc2 is the only game I'm interested in dealing with and I know I'm not the only one with that opinion. I hope that is a good enough explanation of why people might not think twice about talking smack about LoL during sc2 events, seeing as LoL gets brought up so much in places where it really should not be.
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On July 05 2012 19:56 iNcontroL wrote:
LEAVE LOL ALONE!
i refuse this one. im sorry
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LoL is fun to play but I still can't find a single reason I would ever want to watch people play it...
And not everyone is on the "support e-Sports!" bandwagon, I support Starcraft (and the occasional Quake tournament)
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I 100% agree with the the OP. The bashing of LOL does get annoying, but it doesnt get to me nearly 10000000000th of the amount people who fail to realize that esports exists far beyond sc2 do. I think a lot of people fail to realize that if SC2 died... Esports would carry on!!!!!!
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On July 06 2012 04:30 shark. wrote:
I 100% agree with the the OP. The bashing of LOL does get annoying, but it doesnt get to me nearly 10000000000th of the amount people who fail to realize that esports exists far beyond sc2 do. I think a lot of people fail to realize that if SC2 died... Esports would carry on!!!!!!
as a shadow of its former self
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Don't like to play or watch LoL. If I must watch a MOBA, I'd rather it be DotA or DotA2.
That said, don't know why people spend so much time and effort hating on the game. I think a little good-natured ribbing is fine -- that's expected, and I think it's fun -- but the vitriol from some people is out of control. :/
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You just gotta roll your eyes and move on IMO. It's just what people do, take jabs at everything and make fun of anything, it's not just limited to video games, and it's certainly not ever going to stop ....ever....so why waste YOUR energy worrying about it. Just gotta move on man.
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As a hockey fan I hate on lacrosse... and no one cares. See my point?
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On July 05 2012 19:56 iNcontroL wrote:
LEAVE LOL ALONE!
You should try it, you might actually be able to win a game for once.
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On July 05 2012 21:06 Caller wrote:
i think lol and sc2 are both shitty, skillless, games, and thus will continue to shit on both of them
bw4lyfe, etc.
I think BW, SC2, and LoL are fun games
Oh wait I forgot, this is teamliquid. FUCK FUN
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On July 06 2012 01:14 Gene wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 20:44 EnE wrote:
I don't hate LoL because of the game itself, I hate it because its a fucking shitty spectator sport.
It has so so many more players than sc2 but still barely manages double the tournament views.... we don't WANT a game like that to grow, because it could never grow Esports.... think of if LoL captured 10% of the Western population compared to if Sc2 captured 10% of the western population.... E-sports would be like 20 times as big with Sc2. if a game like sc2 blows up even more and becomes ENORMOUS, then that will simultaneously explode e-sports to the same level because it's a competitive spectator game. If a game like LoL where seemingly 1/1000 of the people even bother to watch a tourney stream becomes ENORMOUS, it'll just suck life from other E-sports...sad but true.
You need to not only be a Moba fan but also know all the intricacies of LOL to understand what the fuck is going on. It just doesn't work to be a widespread E-sport.
In sc2, you can appreciate a tank blasting a marine without knowing the HP of the marine, the DPS of the tank and taking into account their upgrades, etc. In lol, your not gonna have a clue what any of the random coloured lights mean if you DON'T ALREADY PLAY THE GAME. Honestly I'm pretty sure you're just completely wrong, and that your last point is entirely the opposite for exactly the reasoning you use. Your own personal favoritism and opinions are so negatively clouding your judgement. now that im not at work, i can elaborate. Watching LoL is SO MUCH easier than watching SC2. I dont need to be even REMOTELY aware of the 80 different units, their abilities, and their weaknesses. There are at most 10 units to be aware of (as if any total newbie is going to give a fuck about the support characters.) They'll be aware they have spells that do damage, or just hack at people with their swords. how do you possibly contend that a game with more viewers is the worse spectator sport
Are you kidding me? Yeah, they'll be able to get that their spells (sometimes) do damage and that they can attack.... but that doesn't help. There's no visual representation for exactly whats going on. If you see a tiny elf thing kill a massive troll then that makes NO FUCKING SENSE. In starcraft 2 you will never see a zergling kill a thor 1 on 1.
If you see a hellion shoot fire at a marine then the marine burns. You can infer it's dead.
If you see a centaur shoot a orangey light at the dwarf thing with the red circle around it and then it glows blue wtf does that show you? You have an enormous bias... Sc2 was my first RTS and I'd never played a moba before. Know what that means? I know what both games are like to a first time watcher.
When I saw sc2, I saw a tank kill a tank or a soldier shoot a soldier. When I saw LoL I saw (random character) do (random thing) with (random effect) which was shown through (random visual.) You could compare sc2 to lol as a spectator sport if everything was changed to make no logical sense and instead of explosions or bullets or zergling attacks, there was varying colours of light.
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I think LoL owes a lot of its popularity to HoN. Most people transitioned from dota to hon then when hon became pay to play, lots of people could not longer deal with WC3's shitty controls after being spoiled by hon's smooth engine. Of course these people still liked dota-styled games so they turned to LoL during that period. LoL's unlocking system is also somewhat addicting since you feel like you "achieved" something rather than just wasted your time playing.
LoL is absolute crap as a spectator sport though. The game is simply not as fun to watch as it is to play. People just farm all day in competitive LoL. It's quite difficult to set up good ganks or even do epic plays in LoL. Only an experienced LoL player will be able to identify a skillful play when it happens.
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EPT
