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I have been noticing something in the community recently and it really bothers me; particularly because the biggest personalities in starcraft II seem to be encouraging it. I am tired of the discussion of league of legends always being about how "stream viewers are inflated" and "its an esport that can't last" and "starcraft II is obviously so much better for blah blah blah". It stupid. Its childish. Its goes completely against what we are all about.
I see this all the time lately in sc2. Its on talk shows. Its inappropriately interjected into casting. Its talked about on streams, the forums, in blogs, everywhere. As far as I can tell, nobody is correcting people who say these things, and we all should be.
League of legends is a great game. Starcraft II is a great game. They are both awesome and they both can exist at the same time. People shouldn't be talking about how one games is better than another, they should be talking about how cool it is that so many people are involved in esports. Because that is what is it really all about: esports. League of legends has progammers making a living off of playing league of legends. That is really fucking cool. Big tournaments sponsored by big companies are being put on all the time. That is freaking awesome. People are taking the game and progamming seriously and that is exactly what we like to see. It doesn't matter what the game is, it matters that people are passionate about gaming. If you don't like LoL that is fine, but you shouldn't shit on it. You shouldn't undermine the achievements of that community. You shouldn't wish for its downfall or try to compare it all to any other game. If league of legends died tomorrow that was be a terrible thing, but the sad thing is many people in this community wouldn't see it that way.
What should be happening, is people in the sc2 community should be getting excited about LoL getting so big. There should be people from sc2 with the know how trying to help league host better tournaments, make better websites, deal with problems of running a huge esport in better ways. There should be cross promoting and cooperation. The starcraft II community should feel really positive that there is another big esport like us coming up. If starcraft II is ever to become as big as we want it to be, other games are going to have to become as big or bigger. Our esport is as connected to league as leagues is to ours. We are a community of gamers. If league grows, we grow with it, and vice versa. Nothing but good things will come out league growing even bigger, and we all should be celebrating this.
So please, if you are one of those people who is talking down on league you need to stop. It doesn't matter if you are caster or just a regular guy, you don't need to act that way. And if you are public person in sc2, you especially need to stop. You are representatives of our community and you should represent the best of us, not the worst.
  
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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I just started playing LoL 3 days ago after my friend convinced me to try it.
Pretty sure I've spent 10 hours a day playing it haha
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You don't understand. a huge portion of starcraft fans also hate starcraft. We also hate bacon and candy and boobs. Some of us even hate cute pictures of baby kittens.
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I don't dislike LoL at all, but I do think it's a complete joke of a competitive game compared to BW or SC2.
Riot have done a great job marketing the game and obviously their business model has been successful - more power to them.
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their jealous because lol is more popular. And popular things get flak all the time, like jersey shore, rebecca black and so on.
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On July 05 2012 19:56 iNcontroL wrote:
LEAVE LOL ALONE!
Oh god, exactly what i was aboug to say ahah
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On July 05 2012 20:12 Netsky wrote:
I don't dislike LoL at all, but I do think it's a complete joke of a competitive game compared to BW or SC2.
Riot have done a great job marketing the game and obviously their business model has been successful - more power to them.
If someone who played BW said SC2 was a "complete joke of a competitive game" compared to BW, do you think that would be a positive statement that would encourage the growth of SC2, or detract from it? I feel like you're basically doing exactly what the OP said not to do. There's kind of a fine line between expressing your honest opinion on the depth of strategy in a game, and just ragging on it for not being at the same level as SC2 (or BW for that matter).
Maybe what I'm trying to say is, you could be *a lot* more tactful in how you express your opinions.
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On July 05 2012 20:17 Cubu wrote:
their jealous because lol is more popular. And popular things get flak all the time, like jersey shore, rebecca black and so on.
nice
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On July 05 2012 20:17 Cubu wrote:
their jealous because lol is more popular. And popular things get flak all the time, like jersey shore, rebecca black and so on.
I wish I had a prize to give you. Because you definitely won something with that line.
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On July 05 2012 20:17 Cubu wrote:
their jealous because lol is more popular. And popular things get flak all the time, like jersey shore, rebecca black and so on. I really hope you meant that in the way I think you meant that.
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I don't hate LoL because of the game itself, I hate it because its a fucking shitty spectator sport.
It has so so many more players than sc2 but still barely manages double the tournament views.... we don't WANT a game like that to grow, because it could never grow Esports.... think of if LoL captured 10% of the Western population compared to if Sc2 captured 10% of the western population.... E-sports would be like 20 times as big with Sc2. if a game like sc2 blows up even more and becomes ENORMOUS, then that will simultaneously explode e-sports to the same level because it's a competitive spectator game. If a game like LoL where seemingly 1/1000 of the people even bother to watch a tourney stream becomes ENORMOUS, it'll just suck life from other E-sports...sad but true.
You need to not only be a Moba fan but also know all the intricacies of LOL to understand what the fuck is going on. It just doesn't work to be a widespread E-sport.
In sc2, you can appreciate a tank blasting a marine without knowing the HP of the marine, the DPS of the tank and taking into account their upgrades, etc. In lol, your not gonna have a clue what any of the random coloured lights mean if you DON'T ALREADY PLAY THE GAME.
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I sort agree/disagree. I feel in some ways like LoL is not really worthy of being an esport (this is sort of subjective), but it has a following and seems to being well so I wish it all the best. It's just not what I'm interested in is all, but if people like it then by all means keep up the growth.
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i think lol and sc2 are both shitty, skillless, games, and thus will continue to shit on both of them
bw4lyfe, etc.
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I'm not interested in "eSports", I'm interested in an eSport: Starcraft. This is like saying that soccer fans shouldn't hate on cricket because both are sports.
I don't go out of my way to shit on LoL, Counter-Strike, Sudden Attack, or the other handful of games that try to be eSports, but if someone asks my opinion on them or it comes up in a discussion I'm involved in, I'm going to give my honest opinion (in this case, LoL is occasionally fun to play but an absolute bore as an eSport).
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Do not worry about those hating on LoL. It is here to stay for the long term. Just enjoy the game.
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On July 05 2012 21:15 TheKwas wrote:
I'm not interested in "eSports", I'm interested in an eSport: Starcraft. This is like saying that soccer fans shouldn't hate on cricket because both are sports.
I don't go out of my way to shit on LoL, Counter-Strike, Sudden Attack, or the other handful of games that try to be eSports, but if someone asks my opinion on them or it comes up in a discussion I'm involved in, I'm going to give my honest opinion (in this case, LoL is occasionally fun to play but an absolute bore as an eSport).
You have to put it in context. Imagine if sports as a whole wasn't necessarily viable to do. Try to picture, wanting to be an athlete but having nothing viable to compete in. All there is is basketball and football putting each other down and neither is big enough for you to really play... I'm sure that if there was some rare opportunity for him to compete in any athletic event, he'd take it, over giving up on sports. I'm guesing you're still a gamer... I'm guessing that you'd enjoy playing almost any game you enjoy competitvely. If you didn't get into sc2, you'd probably be actually playing Dota or something else competitvely and watching it as such also.
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So what should I be doing? I wake up in the morning, what's my plan? Please, master, tell me what needs to be done.
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On July 05 2012 19:47 mothergoose729 wrote:Its inappropriately interjected into casting
This I haven't seen and would like to see an example of, because it does stick out in my mind as an inappropriate forum for giving one's opinion (assuming we're talking about event live casts, not YouTube unofficial casts).
Every other thing you talk about is people giving their opinion in a medium designed specifically for that. I don't see a problem. It would also be different if this opinion didn't have merit to it. I think a convincing argument can be made that LoL is a flash-in-the-pan.
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On July 05 2012 21:19 EnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 21:15 TheKwas wrote:
I'm not interested in "eSports", I'm interested in an eSport: Starcraft. This is like saying that soccer fans shouldn't hate on cricket because both are sports.
I don't go out of my way to shit on LoL, Counter-Strike, Sudden Attack, or the other handful of games that try to be eSports, but if someone asks my opinion on them or it comes up in a discussion I'm involved in, I'm going to give my honest opinion (in this case, LoL is occasionally fun to play but an absolute bore as an eSport). You have to put it in context. Imagine if sports as a whole wasn't necessarily viable to do. Try to picture, wanting to be an athlete but having nothing viable to compete in. All there is is basketball and football putting each other down and neither is big enough for you to really play... I'm sure that if there was some rare opportunity for him to compete in any athletic event, he'd take it, over giving up on sports. I'm guesing you're still a gamer... I'm guessing that you'd enjoy playing almost any game you enjoy competitvely. If you didn't get into sc2, you'd probably be actually playing Dota or something else competitvely and watching it as such also.
Not really. I hate Dota, hate competitive shooters, and only tolerate fighting games to a causally competitive degree. I loved WC3 and BW when they were viable eSports, and would gladly support them again, but if SCII suddenly disappeared off the planet and no good RTS game filled in its vacuum, I would stop watching video games (and probably play a lot more RPGs again).
I have zero interest in MOBA or shooting style games from a viewers perspective. I don't feel like I need to extend my love or support for competitive RTS games to other games just because they share the "eSport" label.
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Actually, it should get shit, because the game makes professional Esports look TERRIBLE. The players are little kids that behave and present themselves like little kids. Theres edrama with teams rearranging constantly, and the games lack quality across the board pretty much. Giant mistakes are made in almost every game its like watching a really B Level pro match in sc2 at the highest level of LoL. That is not even discussing the merits of the game itself as an esport. Maybe when there is actual decorum and professionalism in the game it will be considered a better esport. Maybe when it can sustain itself outside of only people who play the game and Riot not throwing millions of its own money at it. I think the best hope for LoL is for Korea to take it over, they seem to bring a higher standard to the game already and maybe can set an example for the childish lazy western players that represent the "pro LoL scene" at the moment.
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LoL is one of the worst things that ever happened to games, the community sucks, it is in its base dota heavily casualized, the payment model makes me want to cry and above all else, the champions are SO BORING IT'S UNBELIEVABLE, none of them can be really strong in something specific because it would make the game uh what is it? HARD for newbs(supposed to be one of the defining things of moba games). I've already tried to play this game four times and it says a lot about the game that I without knowing what the champions did could pumbstomp every game with Katrina.
PS: LoL's overall design feel so amateurish, they could learn a lot from valve imo.
Just my 2 cents.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
You are posting on a Forum consisting out of SC2 and Brood War players/people who watch it, Teamliquid is heavily elitist and biased towards these (hardcore) games. Most of the these people look down upon games which are ''casual'', don't be suprised that is just how it works, you are not going to find much joy and rainbows argueing with people here, luckily the LoL subforums was made for that.
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On July 05 2012 20:12 Netsky wrote:
I don't dislike LoL at all, but I do think it's a complete joke of a competitive game compared to BW or SC2.
Riot have done a great job marketing the game and obviously their business model has been successful - more power to them.
I LoLed.
I love but statements. ._.
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On July 05 2012 22:50 Kipsate wrote:
You are posting on a Forum consisting out of SC2 and Brood War players/people who watch it, Teamliquid is heavily elitist and biased towards these (hardcore) games. Most of the these people look down upon games which are ''casual'', don't be suprised that is just how it works, you are not going to find much joy and rainbows argueing with people here, luckily the LoL subforums was made for that.
Hes got the right idea 
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BW fans are loling at this thread
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I was wondering where this was coming from until I got to "Talk shows".
Let me address people and casters separately.
People do need to shut up about LoL. I don't play MOBAs but if I did I would be thoroughly annoyed by people constantly bashing my game simply because it exists simultaneously alongside my game. Just like how BW vs SC2 gets.. -_-. Anyway it's not cool and I'm fine if people get temp'd or whatever when they drag threads off topic with whine about a different game. That's fine.
Casters however, I don't use the same term to describe talk show hosts and guests.. If like, Wolf and Khaldor just paused for a minute in the middle of a broadcast to shout "LOL SUCKS LULZ" it would be one thing but from what I think you're referring to, SotG type shows, who cares. They have to fill their overly long shows with some kind of conversation and it's rarely good anyway. Just ignore it.
However casters should avoid bashing LoL during actual casting (during actual games) of course.
Sorry the community here is a dick at times but the community is a dick to everyone at times.
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On July 05 2012 22:33 Alpino wrote:
SC2 is one of the worst things that ever happened to games, the community sucks, it is in its base SC heavily casualized, the game model makes me want to cry and above all else, the units are SO BORING IT'S UNBELIEVABLE, none of them can be really strong in something specific because it would make the game uh what is it? HARD for newbs(supposed to be one of the defining things of rts games). I've already tried to play this game four times and it says a lot about the game that I without knowing what the units did could pumbstomp every game with zerg.
PS: SC2's overall design feel so amateurish, they could learn a lot from valve imo.
Just my 2 cents.
i fixed that for you
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On July 05 2012 21:51 Irre wrote:
Actually, it should get shit, because the game makes professional Esports look TERRIBLE. The players are little kids that behave and present themselves like little kids. Theres edrama with teams rearranging constantly, and the games lack quality across the board pretty much. Giant mistakes are made in almost every game its like watching a really B Level pro match in sc2 at the highest level of LoL.
Sounds like Western SC2. Kids & drama & subpar play.
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They just mad cause they sacrificed a good game for what they thought was the next big thing, and then the real next big thing turned out to be LoL ;o
Most people who ended up sticking with BW actually are looking to LoL as something intriguing. Even among professionals, there were those who held out from SC2, but are now going to LoL for its overwhelming mainstream popularity. I will probably actually watch it if VODs become more easily available for the OGN casts.
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I shit on LoL because it's much worse than Dota 2, I couldn't care less about the LoL/SC2 connection.
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On July 05 2012 23:20 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 21:51 Irre wrote:
Actually, it should get shit, because the game makes professional Esports look TERRIBLE. The players are little kids that behave and present themselves like little kids. Theres edrama with teams rearranging constantly, and the games lack quality across the board pretty much. Giant mistakes are made in almost every game its like watching a really B Level pro match in sc2 at the highest level of LoL. Sounds like Western SC2. Kids & drama & subpar play.
no its nothing like that. Compare EG and then compare any LoL team. The only comparison I could see you making is ROOT to LoL teams but ROOT isnt really a professional team...
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On July 05 2012 23:12 Xenocide_Knight wrote:
BW fans are loling at this thread
The bullied have become the bulliers.
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On July 05 2012 23:19 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 22:33 Alpino wrote:
SC2 is one of the worst things that ever happened to games, the community sucks, it is in its base SC heavily casualized, the game model makes me want to cry and above all else, the units are SO BORING IT'S UNBELIEVABLE, none of them can be really strong in something specific because it would make the game uh what is it? HARD for newbs(supposed to be one of the defining things of rts games). I've already tried to play this game four times and it says a lot about the game that I without knowing what the units did could pumbstomp every game with zerg.
PS: SC2's overall design feel so amateurish, they could learn a lot from valve imo.
Just my 2 cents. i fixed that for you
Gotta admit I loled.
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On July 05 2012 23:19 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 22:33 Alpino wrote:
SC2 is one of the worst things that ever happened to games, the community sucks, it is in its base SC heavily casualized, the game model makes me want to cry and above all else, the units are SO BORING IT'S UNBELIEVABLE, none of them can be really strong in something specific because it would make the game uh what is it? HARD for newbs(supposed to be one of the defining things of rts games). I've already tried to play this game four times and it says a lot about the game that I without knowing what the units did could pumbstomp every game with zerg.
PS: SC2's overall design feel so amateurish, they could learn a lot from valve imo.
Just my 2 cents. i fixed that for you
It is very eerie how fitting the quote is when you fix it like that.
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On July 05 2012 20:07 Fishgle wrote:
You don't understand. a huge portion of starcraft fans also hate starcraft. We also hate bacon and candy and boobs. Some of us even hate cute pictures of baby kittens.
This. The the most vocal parts of the "community" are always negative. Negativity sells. Hating is "cool." Everything sucks, and anyone could always do a better job than what is done, just for some reason no one will hire any of the right people. Ever.
You may as well ask for people to stop hating on Blizzard and agree that SC2 is a worthy successor to BW. It isn't going to happen, especially on TL.
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On July 05 2012 20:44 EnE wrote:
I don't hate LoL because of the game itself, I hate it because its a fucking shitty spectator sport.
It has so so many more players than sc2 but still barely manages double the tournament views.... we don't WANT a game like that to grow, because it could never grow Esports.... think of if LoL captured 10% of the Western population compared to if Sc2 captured 10% of the western population.... E-sports would be like 20 times as big with Sc2. if a game like sc2 blows up even more and becomes ENORMOUS, then that will simultaneously explode e-sports to the same level because it's a competitive spectator game. If a game like LoL where seemingly 1/1000 of the people even bother to watch a tourney stream becomes ENORMOUS, it'll just suck life from other E-sports...sad but true.
You need to not only be a Moba fan but also know all the intricacies of LOL to understand what the fuck is going on. It just doesn't work to be a widespread E-sport.
In sc2, you can appreciate a tank blasting a marine without knowing the HP of the marine, the DPS of the tank and taking into account their upgrades, etc. In lol, your not gonna have a clue what any of the random coloured lights mean if you DON'T ALREADY PLAY THE GAME.
lol, your case doesnt look very strong when the hard-to-understand-hence-not-mainstream game has more than double the viewers.
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Actually, they need to shit on it more, and then use it as toilet paper, then burn it.
On July 05 2012 23:12 Xenocide_Knight wrote:
BW fans are loling at this thread
true dat.
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you speak as if tournament organizations have all the money to support all the esports games. imagine if baseball, soccer, american football, and tennis tournaments were run by the same companies, and every major event was actually a baseball, soccur, american football, and tennis tournament happening at the same time. you're not really going to tell me that ALL the sports will always be supported by these companies, do you?
No. because these companies are going to gravitate towards the most profitable games. And LoL is a game with so many players that it has WAY more viewers that starcraft despite the fact it's a crap game. these companies make money from ads and sponsorships, so they're going to want the games that have more viewers.
So no. both can't survive unless there are seperate companies running the LoL and SC2 tournaments. Or if LoL events occur at different times as SC2 events. Right now, every company (dreamhack, mlg, ipl, etc.) are trying out the major games simply because esports is new and no one knows what's going to happen.
In 5 years, if tournaments are run the same way, only one can survive as an esport. And i'm going to be really pissed if it's LoL that survives.
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On July 05 2012 20:44 EnE wrote:
I don't hate LoL because of the game itself, I hate it because its a fucking shitty spectator sport.
It has so so many more players than sc2 but still barely manages double the tournament views.... we don't WANT a game like that to grow, because it could never grow Esports.... think of if LoL captured 10% of the Western population compared to if Sc2 captured 10% of the western population.... E-sports would be like 20 times as big with Sc2. if a game like sc2 blows up even more and becomes ENORMOUS, then that will simultaneously explode e-sports to the same level because it's a competitive spectator game. If a game like LoL where seemingly 1/1000 of the people even bother to watch a tourney stream becomes ENORMOUS, it'll just suck life from other E-sports...sad but true.
You need to not only be a Moba fan but also know all the intricacies of LOL to understand what the fuck is going on. It just doesn't work to be a widespread E-sport.
In sc2, you can appreciate a tank blasting a marine without knowing the HP of the marine, the DPS of the tank and taking into account their upgrades, etc. In lol, your not gonna have a clue what any of the random coloured lights mean if you DON'T ALREADY PLAY THE GAME.
Honestly I'm pretty sure you're just completely wrong, and that your last point is entirely the opposite for exactly the reasoning you use. Your own personal favoritism and opinions are so negatively clouding your judgement.
now that im not at work, i can elaborate.
Watching LoL is SO MUCH easier than watching SC2. I dont need to be even REMOTELY aware of the 80 different units, their abilities, and their weaknesses.
There are at most 10 units to be aware of (as if any total newbie is going to give a fuck about the support characters.) They'll be aware they have spells that do damage, or just hack at people with their swords.
how do you possibly contend that a game with more viewers is the worse spectator sport
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On July 05 2012 23:16 Probe1 wrote:
I was wondering where this was coming from until I got to "Talk shows".
Let me address people and casters separately.
People do need to shut up about LoL. I don't play MOBAs but if I did I would be thoroughly annoyed by people constantly bashing my game simply because it exists simultaneously alongside my game. Just like how BW vs SC2 gets.. -_-. Anyway it's not cool and I'm fine if people get temp'd or whatever when they drag threads off topic with whine about a different game. That's fine.
Casters however, I don't use the same term to describe talk show hosts and guests.. If like, Wolf and Khaldor just paused for a minute in the middle of a broadcast to shout "LOL SUCKS LULZ" it would be one thing but from what I think you're referring to, SotG type shows, who cares. They have to fill their overly long shows with some kind of conversation and it's rarely good anyway. Just ignore it.
However casters should avoid bashing LoL during actual casting (during actual games) of course.
Sorry the community here is a dick at times but the community is a dick to everyone at times.
I don't play MOBAs either because it's not really my cup of tea but I don't go out of my way to take a dump on what they like or dislike.
There are a lot and I mean a lot of hypocrites out there, but why would I care what some of these casters or people say on their talk shows? Their opinions don't mean much of anything at all. That's why I barely pay any attention to them.
I just laugh because laughing is awesome and very healthy at the same time =)
If they want to be immature about it. Let them. It's on them and not you.
If they want to be a dick. Let them be a dick.
Later on perhaps they'll look back on it and learn from it.
Or not. In either case it's their problem.
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I can almost guarantee that LoLs success is based entirely off of the fact that it is free to play. I'm not sure if anybody would be playing it today if it was released as a $30 game, or even a $20 game. The reason for that? It is designed in a way that is amateurish and uninteresting to watch. That's also the reason that despite its seemingly collosul playerbase on a tiny proportion of them actually watch streams and tournaments.
I can see why a lot of people are bitter about it possibly becoming a leading e-sport when almost anybody who has never played the game would instantly turn away from e-sports after watching a LoL match for 5 minutes.
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StarStruck I suppose the problem is some people take encouragement from faces on stream and continue the bashing on the site. I guess that was the point of the OP at least. In my own opinion, people that bash on LoL get banned pretty fast if it's ridiculously off topic or irrelevant. And yeah, I only pay attention to talk shows about Starcraft when there's some big (empty) controversy surrounding something like the avilo stuff or the GESL stuff that's coming up [expect that one soon lol]
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SC2 fans sure are angry that their game has fallen short of expectations, both in Korea and outside of it.
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On July 06 2012 02:17 koreasilver wrote:
SC2 fans sure are angry that their game has fallen short of expectations, both in Korea and outside of it.
Most do it out of jealousy anyway. "WHY ISN'T STARCRAFT TOO AS POPULAR WHEN IT IS THE GREATEST ESPORTS IN THE WORLD?!!"
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Riot cares more about esports than Blizzard!!11!
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On July 06 2012 01:18 LucidityDark wrote:
I can almost guarantee that LoLs success is based entirely off of the fact that it is free to play. I'm not sure if anybody would be playing it today if it was released as a $30 game, or even a $20 game. The reason for that? It is designed in a way that is amateurish and uninteresting to watch. That's also the reason that despite its seemingly collosul playerbase on a tiny proportion of them actually watch streams and tournaments.
I can see why a lot of people are bitter about it possibly becoming a leading e-sport when almost anybody who has never played the game would instantly turn away from e-sports after watching a LoL match for 5 minutes.
I can 100% guarantee that SC2's success is based entirely on its name. I'm not sure anybody would be playing it today if it wasn't released by Blizzard. The reason for that ? It's designed in a way that is amateurish and uninteresting to play. That's also the reason that despite its seemingly collosus viewerbase on a tiny proportion of them actually play the game.
I can see why a lot of people are bitter about it possibly becoming a leading e-sport when almost anybody who has played the game would instantly turn away from e-sports after 5 mins.
Too easy to caricature.
There are plenty of other free to play games out there. Seems like LoL is more fun to play and watch than most of them.
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I don't think disliking LoL goes against what we are all about, this being a starcraft community site I'm sure the majority of us mostly just care about starcraft. LoL gaining popularity barely has any effect on sc2 negatively or positively, so I'd prefer if the communities remained separate so that I don't have to see LoL stuff mixed in with sc2 information. It could also get even worse if tournaments decided to randomly switch back and forth between showing LoL matches and sc2 matches on one stream to try and get cross viewership. I hate LoL and I love sc2, I couldn't care less about "esports" because sc2 is the only game I'm interested in dealing with and I know I'm not the only one with that opinion. I hope that is a good enough explanation of why people might not think twice about talking smack about LoL during sc2 events, seeing as LoL gets brought up so much in places where it really should not be.
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On July 05 2012 19:56 iNcontroL wrote:
LEAVE LOL ALONE!
i refuse this one. im sorry
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LoL is fun to play but I still can't find a single reason I would ever want to watch people play it...
And not everyone is on the "support e-Sports!" bandwagon, I support Starcraft (and the occasional Quake tournament)
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I 100% agree with the the OP. The bashing of LOL does get annoying, but it doesnt get to me nearly 10000000000th of the amount people who fail to realize that esports exists far beyond sc2 do. I think a lot of people fail to realize that if SC2 died... Esports would carry on!!!!!!
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On July 06 2012 04:30 shark. wrote:
I 100% agree with the the OP. The bashing of LOL does get annoying, but it doesnt get to me nearly 10000000000th of the amount people who fail to realize that esports exists far beyond sc2 do. I think a lot of people fail to realize that if SC2 died... Esports would carry on!!!!!!
as a shadow of its former self
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Don't like to play or watch LoL. If I must watch a MOBA, I'd rather it be DotA or DotA2.
That said, don't know why people spend so much time and effort hating on the game. I think a little good-natured ribbing is fine -- that's expected, and I think it's fun -- but the vitriol from some people is out of control. :/
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You just gotta roll your eyes and move on IMO. It's just what people do, take jabs at everything and make fun of anything, it's not just limited to video games, and it's certainly not ever going to stop ....ever....so why waste YOUR energy worrying about it. Just gotta move on man.
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As a hockey fan I hate on lacrosse... and no one cares. See my point?
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On July 05 2012 19:56 iNcontroL wrote:
LEAVE LOL ALONE!
You should try it, you might actually be able to win a game for once.
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On July 05 2012 21:06 Caller wrote:
i think lol and sc2 are both shitty, skillless, games, and thus will continue to shit on both of them
bw4lyfe, etc.
I think BW, SC2, and LoL are fun games
Oh wait I forgot, this is teamliquid. FUCK FUN
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On July 06 2012 01:14 Gene wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 20:44 EnE wrote:
I don't hate LoL because of the game itself, I hate it because its a fucking shitty spectator sport.
It has so so many more players than sc2 but still barely manages double the tournament views.... we don't WANT a game like that to grow, because it could never grow Esports.... think of if LoL captured 10% of the Western population compared to if Sc2 captured 10% of the western population.... E-sports would be like 20 times as big with Sc2. if a game like sc2 blows up even more and becomes ENORMOUS, then that will simultaneously explode e-sports to the same level because it's a competitive spectator game. If a game like LoL where seemingly 1/1000 of the people even bother to watch a tourney stream becomes ENORMOUS, it'll just suck life from other E-sports...sad but true.
You need to not only be a Moba fan but also know all the intricacies of LOL to understand what the fuck is going on. It just doesn't work to be a widespread E-sport.
In sc2, you can appreciate a tank blasting a marine without knowing the HP of the marine, the DPS of the tank and taking into account their upgrades, etc. In lol, your not gonna have a clue what any of the random coloured lights mean if you DON'T ALREADY PLAY THE GAME. Honestly I'm pretty sure you're just completely wrong, and that your last point is entirely the opposite for exactly the reasoning you use. Your own personal favoritism and opinions are so negatively clouding your judgement. now that im not at work, i can elaborate. Watching LoL is SO MUCH easier than watching SC2. I dont need to be even REMOTELY aware of the 80 different units, their abilities, and their weaknesses. There are at most 10 units to be aware of (as if any total newbie is going to give a fuck about the support characters.) They'll be aware they have spells that do damage, or just hack at people with their swords. how do you possibly contend that a game with more viewers is the worse spectator sport
Are you kidding me? Yeah, they'll be able to get that their spells (sometimes) do damage and that they can attack.... but that doesn't help. There's no visual representation for exactly whats going on. If you see a tiny elf thing kill a massive troll then that makes NO FUCKING SENSE. In starcraft 2 you will never see a zergling kill a thor 1 on 1.
If you see a hellion shoot fire at a marine then the marine burns. You can infer it's dead.
If you see a centaur shoot a orangey light at the dwarf thing with the red circle around it and then it glows blue wtf does that show you? You have an enormous bias... Sc2 was my first RTS and I'd never played a moba before. Know what that means? I know what both games are like to a first time watcher.
When I saw sc2, I saw a tank kill a tank or a soldier shoot a soldier. When I saw LoL I saw (random character) do (random thing) with (random effect) which was shown through (random visual.) You could compare sc2 to lol as a spectator sport if everything was changed to make no logical sense and instead of explosions or bullets or zergling attacks, there was varying colours of light.
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I think LoL owes a lot of its popularity to HoN. Most people transitioned from dota to hon then when hon became pay to play, lots of people could not longer deal with WC3's shitty controls after being spoiled by hon's smooth engine. Of course these people still liked dota-styled games so they turned to LoL during that period. LoL's unlocking system is also somewhat addicting since you feel like you "achieved" something rather than just wasted your time playing.
LoL is absolute crap as a spectator sport though. The game is simply not as fun to watch as it is to play. People just farm all day in competitive LoL. It's quite difficult to set up good ganks or even do epic plays in LoL. Only an experienced LoL player will be able to identify a skillful play when it happens.
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On July 06 2012 06:41 EnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2012 01:14 Gene wrote:On July 05 2012 20:44 EnE wrote:
I don't hate LoL because of the game itself, I hate it because its a fucking shitty spectator sport.
It has so so many more players than sc2 but still barely manages double the tournament views.... we don't WANT a game like that to grow, because it could never grow Esports.... think of if LoL captured 10% of the Western population compared to if Sc2 captured 10% of the western population.... E-sports would be like 20 times as big with Sc2. if a game like sc2 blows up even more and becomes ENORMOUS, then that will simultaneously explode e-sports to the same level because it's a competitive spectator game. If a game like LoL where seemingly 1/1000 of the people even bother to watch a tourney stream becomes ENORMOUS, it'll just suck life from other E-sports...sad but true.
You need to not only be a Moba fan but also know all the intricacies of LOL to understand what the fuck is going on. It just doesn't work to be a widespread E-sport.
In sc2, you can appreciate a tank blasting a marine without knowing the HP of the marine, the DPS of the tank and taking into account their upgrades, etc. In lol, your not gonna have a clue what any of the random coloured lights mean if you DON'T ALREADY PLAY THE GAME. Honestly I'm pretty sure you're just completely wrong, and that your last point is entirely the opposite for exactly the reasoning you use. Your own personal favoritism and opinions are so negatively clouding your judgement. now that im not at work, i can elaborate. Watching LoL is SO MUCH easier than watching SC2. I dont need to be even REMOTELY aware of the 80 different units, their abilities, and their weaknesses. There are at most 10 units to be aware of (as if any total newbie is going to give a fuck about the support characters.) They'll be aware they have spells that do damage, or just hack at people with their swords. how do you possibly contend that a game with more viewers is the worse spectator sport Are you kidding me? Yeah, they'll be able to get that their spells (sometimes) do damage and that they can attack.... but that doesn't help. There's no visual representation for exactly whats going on. If you see a tiny elf thing kill a massive troll then that makes NO FUCKING SENSE. In starcraft 2 you will never see a zergling kill a thor 1 on 1. If you see a hellion shoot fire at a marine then the marine burns. You can infer it's dead. If you see a centaur shoot a orangey light at the dwarf thing with the red circle around it and then it glows blue wtf does that show you? You have an enormous bias... Sc2 was my first RTS and I'd never played a moba before. Know what that means? I know what both games are like to a first time watcher. When I saw sc2, I saw a tank kill a tank or a soldier shoot a soldier. When I saw LoL I saw (random character) do (random thing) with (random effect) which was shown through (random visual.) You could compare sc2 to lol as a spectator sport if everything was changed to make no logical sense and instead of explosions or bullets or zergling attacks, there was varying colours of light.
You're probably the only one who played only one RTS and never played moba before
oh wait I did that too. Clearly my opinion is more important. I would say we should agree to disagree but on a statement of fact as to what game is less intricate, clearly one of us must be wrong.
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On July 06 2012 04:50 Carson wrote:
As a hockey fan I hate on lacrosse... and no one cares. See my point?
And you call yourself a Canadian! I guess I'll add I love Goose for being 5 small Dendi's. It's the only thing LoL is missing right now for me. They help fill that gap :D
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Firstly I think alot of the people who are hating on LoL care more about starcraft than eSports itself. LoL is a competitor to SC2 right now and I think people are pissed that the brand of starcraft that took so long to build up naturally into SC2 has been surpassed by a once no name game that just appeared and got popular within like 5 months because it's fun and free not because it's mother fucking starcraft the manliest game on earth. right?
I have no hate towards LoL but I can't say I like watching it. It's okay to play with friends but I will always remain true to starcraft ^^
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On July 05 2012 21:06 Caller wrote:
i think all games are both shitty, skillless, games, and thus people will continue to play them for no good reason
Corrected
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I don't quite understand why starcraft 2 needs other games to get big in order for us to keep growing our own scene?
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I am so confused why all of you guys are being such dicks about this. Its a game that has a worse community, but still a great community compared to most other games. Starcraft's community isn't immaculate either, its the best one, but still has some shit in it, like BW elitists who believe that BW is the only game worth playing, ever. SC2 elitists who only believe that BW should die and LoL can suck a dick. Thats only naming two of them, LoL is not a terrible game, yes its a little easier than DotA, but at the highest level its not crazy easier, its just about even. The best DotA players have been playing that game for a long time, and LoL is relatively new so of course it gets hate. It has much more than just a cult following and is the most popular game in the SC bastion country, South Korea.
On the subject of this never ending war of SC2 and LoL when it comes to killing the Leviathan or Jonah getting eaten by the Leviathan (yes the word whale is incorrectly translated because the hebrew word for whale is pronounced, le-vi-a-tan, but I digress). The two games have enormously different fan bases, with different types of people, they don't overlap except for people who watch both, like me. I enjoy both games, not equally, SC2 is more tactical and fun to watch, but seeing TSM dominate CLG is my second along with fighting games. The fact is that ones success does not define or hurt the other. The tournaments will keep SC2 so long as the community is strong, and SC2 has more tourneys than LoL, every tournament SC2 has actually masses numbers over LoL, if you combine them all together since there are so many grass roots ones. Companies gravitate towards profit, but do not gravitate solely to one side or the other, there is profit in both and SC2 has many more dedicated viewers who have been here since BW than LoL, so no LoL and SC2 don't have to fight to the death.
On the subject of doucheapplery, and elitism. I'm only going to give a few lines about this for each category, the people who hate on LoL have a parallel in the LoL community who hate on SC and SC2 and everything else. The BW elitists (I can name a few on this site who do this), you make up a tiny minority of gamers, most people view BW as a badly made, incredibly hard / high skill gap game, with bad resolution and worse AI which got popular because South Korea literally fed it to their young children, IMO I think BW is great and I enjoy watching it and being terrible at it, but more than a few sites agree on this notion. For the SC2 people, you act just like the BW elitists that I just mentioned that I know you hate with a passion, SC2 is not universally declared a great game by any means, it lost to mass effect on a game of the year site, yeah mass effect, you know the game with the shitty final ending, that one. The fact is that LoL has some bad apples and so does this community.
About people that say the pros act like children, most of the pros are actually very manner. This is about the same in SC2, but their are some that aren't that way, anyone remember the anger that was Nani's probe rush? Maybe every game avilo plays vs zerg? Maybe every game IdrA plays in general? Maybe every genre that Destiny plays? They rage a lot, there are many cheaters who play this game and BW too. The pros of SC2 are just as human as the Pros of LoL, in LoL the main person they shit on is HotShotGG, and yes he is a dick, but not any more so than Destiny who uses racial slurs when he is angry/rages/loses any given game.
Finally about the hate on "champs," yes some champs seem to overlap, but none of them are exactly the same and none of the abilities are the same. There are only SO many abilities that can exist, but riot has pushed this limit and expanded them way past where DotA left them off. LoL has some great parts to it
TL;DR, its fun to hate, but do it in moderation, bros. Its obviously a vocal minority who hates, but this minority needs to shut up and pay attention to more important things in life than shitting on other people's parades, if shitting on them is that important to you, get your goals in line cuz they are messed up.
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I think a constant bashing between rivalling X is a good thing. It encourages development and strengthens the resolve to not just maintain but to strive to improve. When your brother first invites you to play basketball and then soon after crams one down your throat, you practice like crazy. Then upon return you cram one down his throat, which inspires him to do better and so the cycle continues. Just don't think of things people are saying as an insult but rather as one of a challenge. Sc2 fans talk about how LoL requires little skill? Practice like crazy, show off your skills in a video, and challenge them to show something in Sc2 that takes more skill than that. Instead of complaining about how people dislike the things you love, you should use their comments to fuel a fire in your heart.
Anyway that's how I think it is.
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in my opinion lol makes someone more addicted than WoW. Cause it's the system with getting ip for a win or lose, so if you dont want to spend much money for lol you just try to play play and play for next champ or beter runes pages etc...
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On July 05 2012 21:51 Irre wrote:
Actually, it should get shit, because the game makes professional Esports look TERRIBLE. The players are little kids that behave and present themselves like little kids. Theres edrama with teams rearranging constantly, and the games lack quality across the board pretty much. Giant mistakes are made in almost every game its like watching a really B Level pro match in sc2 at the highest level of LoL. That is not even discussing the merits of the game itself as an esport. Maybe when there is actual decorum and professionalism in the game it will be considered a better esport. Maybe when it can sustain itself outside of only people who play the game and Riot not throwing millions of its own money at it. I think the best hope for LoL is for Korea to take it over, they seem to bring a higher standard to the game already and maybe can set an example for the childish lazy western players that represent the "pro LoL scene" at the moment.
lolololololololol
By that logic, SC2 wouldn't have gotten past beta
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EPT
