EPTWhere are the nerd girls - Page 3
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Stratos
Czech Republic6104 Posts
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
It varies between the social inept that stalk any girl that says so much as a greeting in guild chat to the white knights which call all women whores who even look at make-up. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
The idea of the attention whore as a major negative is silly to begin with. It surely exists, for both men and women, but that doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing. I view it as the entire reason for the Blog section. With regards to calling people beautiful/cute/etc. I think there's a somewhat fine line between complimenting someone's looks respectfully and creepily, and given the lack of nuance in internet text, it's sometimes impossible to read the difference. | ||
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NoMicro
Canada69 Posts
Being a male, I haven't experienced the sexism first hand to the same extent as the women I've played with over the years. (However,some socially awkward girl gamers are just as filthy, dirty, and disgusting as their counterparts.) Some girls, ENABLE. They're horrible. They giggle when a off-handed comment comes their way. They need to say "No" and be more direct. These are males that are probably 14-19 years old, full of hormones and socially inexperienced.This is a ticking time bomb and I'm sorry that the females are the trigger that sets them off. You can set them straight most the time. Be confident, know what you want, and say it. You're looking to game, have fun, and be in a supportive community. Not to be gawked at, teased, flirted with, and abused. If that doesn't happen, leave the community. Find another one. DON'T innocently flirt. These are deprived males. Any signal, any slight glimpse, flicker, or tell that you may have an "interest" in the guy on more than a platonic level. Don't do it. Make sure the guy is stable enough to understand it's just an innocent joke. Be a bit more blunt for a while. Take up a Head-Bitch mentality for a while and lighten up over time. Opening to the ones with sense. Keep hold of the people with sense. Basically, don't join clans or communities with the intention of staying, give it a couple of weeks as a trial and see how evolved the community is. What the girl looks like, how she dresses, the attention she wants, is all irrelevant. Their is nothing wrong with being an attention-whore if you want to be one. Not my style, i'd probably just ignore you. These guys. don't have enough experience with the opposite gender to know what they LIKE, and what the DON'T LIKE, so they see BOOBS and get all excited because you having boobs means they must like you. Show off a bit of that horrible, vain, personality, be a head-bitch and make them learn their lesson instead. The biggest tool you have available is that their is a countless number of gaming communities. You don't like one, hop to another. Let them learn, or not. They'll just be stuck in a sausage fest of a Ventrilo. Final note: Keep tabs with cool people who you know just want platonic, chill times. Cut ties off with the other ones ASAP before they get any ideas. Oh, and if you're feeling evil and play item-based games just manipulate the shit out of the guys until they learn that some girls are bitches too. =P TL;DR: Just like Real-Life you get a few close-knit friends you trust and say FU to everyone else. Don't settle for pervs, let them learn. Get good with the mute button. BE UPFRONT. You're here to play GAMES, not with their tiny dicks. ------------------------------------------------------------------- And then you could also go on about the enabling girls. They flirt, send pictures, and generally act like the girl who drank 3 too many, took a couple of triple-stacked MDMAs and do anything you tell them to. Socially awkward nerd girls are part of the problem. If the only girl a guy talks to regularly is some socially inexperienced, needy, low confidence trick , that does these things, it's going to give him unrealistic expectations of all women. You sane women have to deal with breaking down these conceptions the socially awkward side of your gender has also helped forge. | ||
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Bigtony
United States1606 Posts
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BabyToss!
Czech Republic588 Posts
I personally hate to admit I am a female, because most of us get judged by our looks, not on how much we love the game and stuff like that. And frankly, I don't give a damn about my appearance, I am not here to appease the male audience and I want to just enjoy the game. Not interested in that kind of spotlight, where I'd get finger pointed for being a girl. This totally shouldn't matter, to anyone. From my experience, it is far better to just not even mention the gender; that way, I get treated normally, equally and get to play games w/o stupid and sexual reference jokes. The moment you go on ventrilo/skype/mumble (whatever), they usually react a bit odd. Why is that, I'm asking myself, and making sure that only few people actually know about my gender. To bottom line it, it's both guys and girls being to be blamed, for this 'hot stereotype'. Most girls actually do care about how they look like and likewise, guys tend to care about that as well, sadly to the point, where it is often more important for them, than if said girl has actually any real interest in StarCraft 2. The only way to change is, to actually try and put an effort to simply accept, that there are girls, who actually enjoy the game and they are nerdy, and don't have to be worried about their looks either, without unnecessary finger pointing and commenting on how hot or ugly she is. | ||
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
On April 09 2012 23:16 TheToast wrote: Okay this is one of those times where a response overshadows the blog. (sorry Zandar!) No problem, I even agree lol On April 10 2012 00:30 Jibba wrote: I'd like to think TL has made great strides to reduce the level of sexism within the boards, at least compared to other gaming communities I do too. and where we were several years ago, but reading the posts of RedJustice, Haemonculus and others, I guess we still have a long way to go, especially with regards to the subversive stuff. Yep. Just wondering how. Besides tournament organisers, maybe sc2 celebrities like day9 could do something here. Occasionally invite a gaming girl/woman to their stream and things like that. | ||
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Otolia
France5805 Posts
On April 10 2012 01:15 BabyToss! wrote: I actually pointed it out on Twitter, that only women, who are 'hot' and dress 'hot' get to be seen on stage (and got some nice shitstorm going for it too!); this last IPL4 being yet another example of that. I know these girls try to work hard and contribute, but let's face it, where are your typical nerdy girls? I personally am a bit sick of that stereotype, that all girls on stage have to look like princesses, instead of looking like your typical nerd. I personally hate to admit I am a female, because most of us get judged by our looks, not on how much we love the game and stuff like that. And frankly, I don't give a damn about my appearance, I am not here to appease the male audience and I want to just enjoy the game. Not interested in that kind of spotlight, where I'd get finger pointed for being a girl. This totally shouldn't matter, to anyone. You know what this part says about you ? You think you are not attractive. Maybe Anna and Rachel don't love the game as much as you do but they certainly have emotional ties to it. And that's why they are here on the stage not because they are pretty. They happen to be pretty because self-confidence is a big part of what makes someone gregarious (in the good sense of the term) and this is also (at different degrees) related to looks. You are blaming a something that happens in all kind of environment and thinks it is a mark of our community. Isn't "typical nerd" as bad stereotype too ? Would you like to be described as living in your mom's basement ? Is that any better than the girl who got the job because she is allegedly pretty ? Because you are a nerd girl you can't enjoy getting dressed up in nice looking dresses ? | ||
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NoMicro
Canada69 Posts
On April 10 2012 01:21 Zandar wrote: Yep. Just wondering how. Besides tournament organisers, maybe sc2 celebrities like day9 could do something here. Occasionally invite a gaming girl/woman to their stream and things like that. No, that's the worst thing we could do is hype up girls because they're girls. Let them get their place through performance, and fame. Treat them the same. | ||
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TheToast
United States4808 Posts
On April 10 2012 01:36 Otolia wrote: Maybe Anna and Rachel don't love the game as much as you do but they certainly have emotional ties to it. And that's why they are here on the stage not because they are pretty. They happen to be pretty because self-confidence is a big part of what makes someone gregarious (in the good sense of the term) and this is also (at different degrees) related to looks. Idk what fairy tail land you are living in, but I'd love to visit sometime. I do have a lot of respect for Anna, she clearly works hard and has done a lot of work for esports. But lets be fair, she is where she is and got her job with EG because she is dating/marrying Incontrol. That's not to say she hasn't done great work and been a good embassador for the industry, but she got a fast track into it and her looks have certainly helped her. Honestly though you really don't think looks don't matter you are crazy. Any job where one is facing the public looks are going to be weighed heavily. Women are judged even more critically. When's the last time you saw an overweight female news anchor or weatherperson? It's sad but it's true. The reaction of some elements of this community to Scarlett is, I believe, good evidence that a lot of people are willing to judge people based on physical characteristics; instead of their gaming talent. | ||
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
On April 10 2012 01:36 Otolia wrote: You know what this part says about you ? You think you are not attractive. Maybe Anna and Rachel don't love the game as much as you do but they certainly have emotional ties to it. And that's why they are here on the stage not because they are pretty. They happen to be pretty because self-confidence is a big part of what makes someone gregarious (in the good sense of the term) and this is also (at different degrees) related to looks. You are blaming a something that happens in all kind of environment and thinks it is a mark of our community. Isn't "typical nerd" as bad stereotype too ? Would you like to be described as living in your mom's basement ? Is that any better than the allegedly girl who got the job because she is pretty ? Because you are a nerd girl you can't enjoy getting dressed up in nice looking dresses ? Well I don't agree with this at all. Where does she say she thinks she is not attractive? For all I know she is more attractive then these girls on stage, but doesn't care about her looks and just don't want to dress hot to please male gamers. Because she doesn't care about her looks as much as Anna or Rachel shouldn't mean shit. The majority of gamers don't care that much about their looks, so why should female gamers have to? | ||
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beetlelisk
Poland2276 Posts
On April 10 2012 01:42 NoMicro wrote: No, that's the worst thing we could do is hype up girls because they're girls. Let them get their place through performance, and fame. Treat them the same. Or do the both - invite a girl who performs well, like Scarlett, like make a daily in the place of the event like Day9 did a few times. | ||
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
On April 10 2012 01:42 NoMicro wrote: No, that's the worst thing we could do is hype up girls because they're girls. Let them get their place through performance, and fame. Treat them the same. Well he has guests from time to time but I don't think even 5% of these were female so lets treat them the same indeed! I see your point though and I agree that everyone should be treated equally. But it's not the case right now. | ||
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BabyToss!
Czech Republic588 Posts
On April 10 2012 01:36 Otolia wrote: You know what this part says about you ? You think you are not attractive. Maybe Anna and Rachel don't love the game as much as you do but they certainly have emotional ties to it. And that's why they are here on the stage not because they are pretty. They happen to be pretty because self-confidence is a big part of what makes someone gregarious (in the good sense of the term) and this is also (at different degrees) related to looks. You are blaming a something that happens in all kind of environment and thinks it is a mark of our community. Isn't "typical nerd" as bad stereotype too ? Would you like to be described as living in your mom's basement ? Is that any better than the allegedly girl who got the job because she is pretty ? Because you are a nerd girl you can't enjoy getting dressed up in nice looking dresses ? That's the thing. I can't be bothered to dress in pretty dresses. In fact, my definition of looking pretty & elegant would be completelly different from your usual 'standard' - I'd choose to wear pant suits, if I really had to look formal, otherwise, wearing whatever is comfortable is what makes *me* feel good about myself. And, FYI, I don't live in my 'mom's basement'. I am married and have 8 years old kid, so again, your argument about 'nerd steroetypes' doesn't apply here. I simply am tired and sick of the definition of what is 'pretty' & 'hot'. I mean, everyone has the right to have their own opinion on that, but there's sadly this stereotype (going both ways) about some sort of how woman should look like in the society. Something I don't give a damn about, btw. Many people just easily forget to be themselves, for the sake of some artifical 'society unwritten laws' because they are afraid of ridiculed, if they didn't conform to them. Being of the age I am, I am happy I grew out of that, and I sincerely wish more people, not just girls, but guys alike, will have that possibility one day as well.  | ||
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NoMicro
Canada69 Posts
On April 10 2012 01:50 Zandar wrote: Well he has guests from time to time but I don't think even 5% of these were female so lets treat them the same indeed! I see your point though and I agree that everyone should be treated equally. But it's not the case right now. It's certainly not the case, we're a long way from equality. We just have to keep treating them like us, and hopefully the trend gets popular. Males and Females.. We're both still human. Also, older gamers. Be a role model. If a male is making discriminatory comments towards a female and she's requested for him to stop, speak up. Say something. A lot of times these males don't know HOW to act. Remember, a lot of gamers are escaping from something, and while this doesn't excuse their behavior you should make an attempt to teach them some proper conduct. I think many males who joke online make sexually charged comments a lot of the times, whether a female is in the room or not. This is the normal thing for them. When a female comes into the room, he doesn't care. Which is perfectly fine. If he's requested to stop making those comments and doesn't. That's not fine. It's all about respect. If someone doesn't like something you're doing and they ask you to please stop. You should. If you can't have a civil discussion, you shouldn't be talking anyways. | ||
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huehuehuehue
Estonia455 Posts
On April 10 2012 01:53 BabyToss! wrote: That's the thing. I can't be bothered to dress in pretty dresses. In fact, my definition of looking pretty & elegant would be completelly different from your usual 'standard' - I'd choose to wear pant suits, if I really had to look formal, otherwise, wearing whatever is comfortable is what makes *me* feel good about myself. And, FYI, I don't live in my 'mom's basement'. I am married and have 8 years old kid, so again, your argument about 'nerd steroetypes' doesn't apply here. I simply am tired and sick of the definition of what is 'pretty' & 'hot'. I mean, everyone has the right to have their own opinion on that, but there's sadly this stereotype (going both ways) about some sort of how woman should look like in the society. Something I don't give a damn about, btw. Many people just easily forget to be themselves, for the sake of some artifical 'society unwritten laws' because they are afraid of ridiculed, if they didn't conform to them. Being of the age I am, I am happy I grew out of that, and I sincerely wish more people, not just girls, but guys alike, will have that possibility one day as well. Men cant choose who they find pretty/hot. | ||
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Otolia
France5805 Posts
On April 10 2012 01:53 BabyToss! wrote: That's the thing. I can't be bothered to dress in pretty dresses. In fact, my definition of looking pretty & elegant would be completelly different from your usual 'standard' - I'd choose to wear pant suits, if I really had to look formal, otherwise, wearing whatever is comfortable is what makes *me* feel good about myself. And, FYI, I don't live in my 'mom's basement'. I am married and have 8 years old kid, so again, your argument about 'nerd steroetypes' doesn't apply here. I simply am tired and sick of the definition of what is 'pretty' & 'hot'. I mean, everyone has the right to have their own opinion on that, but there's sadly this stereotype (going both ways) about some sort of how woman should look like in the society. Something I don't give a damn about, btw. Many people just easily forget to be themselves, for the sake of some artifical 'society unwritten laws' because they are afraid of ridiculed, if they didn't conform to them. Being of the age I am, I am happy I grew out of that, and I sincerely wish more people, not just girls, but guys alike, will have that possibility one day as well. My questions were entirely rhetorical and I was using you as a general form, not to describe you particularly. I was just attempting to show you that you have stereotypes too and you judged people too. I don't want to derail this thread into a debate on what is feminism so I'm not going to continue into that path. My main point is : If you want the situation of women to get better in our community you'd better start supporting them, no matter how they looks. And you certainly have to stop describing them as attention-whore. | ||
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Leyra
United States1222 Posts
That being said, towards the OP, I think in any walk of life, an attractive human being has a better chance of succeeding than an unattractive one, given similar skillsets and qualifications. I definitely think it's even worse for females. It's a nice thought to think "The gamer community shouldn't be like that" but the companies that sponsor the teams that are part of the "gamer community" want to make money, and having an attractive female player on the team is much more positive publicity for them. The chivalry of it all is nice, but e-sports and gaming is still a business first and foremost. Look in music, the majority of stars are fairly normalized and attractive, men and women. There are fewer .. "different looking" (Adele, for example) women than men, for sure, but the principle still applies. Anyways, good read so far keep the debate rolling! | ||
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
On April 10 2012 02:15 Leyra wrote: I kind of don't get why everyone feels the need to pidgeon-hole people. I feel like the "gamer" community has a propensity for taking up the "us vs. them" mentality. I'm a guy, I work out a lot, I play a lot of sports, but most of all I consider myself a gamer. I'm half here and half there. Why can't someone like Anna be the same? A girl could be a Miss USA contestant, attractive, active, and still consider herself a nerd, can't she? That being said, towards the OP, I think in any walk of life, an attractive human being has a better chance of succeeding than an unattractive one, given similar skillsets and qualifications. I definitely think it's even worse for females. It's a nice thought to think "The gamer community shouldn't be like that" but the companies that sponsor the teams that are part of the "gamer community" want to make money, and having an attractive female player on the team is much more positive publicity for them. The chivalry of it all is nice, but e-sports and gaming is still a business first and foremost. Look in music, the majority of stars are fairly normalized and attractive, men and women. There are fewer .. "different looking" (Adele, for example) women than men, for sure, but the principle still applies. Anyways, good read so far keep the debate rolling!There is no problem with Anna at all and of course a goodlooking person can be a nerd too. The problem is the absence at e-sports events of the female gamer who doesn't look like she's often winning beautycontests. | ||
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farvacola
United States18819 Posts
On April 10 2012 02:15 Leyra wrote: I kind of don't get why everyone feels the need to pidgeon-hole people. I feel like the "gamer" community has a propensity for taking up the "us vs. them" mentality. I'm a guy, I work out a lot, I play a lot of sports, but most of all I consider myself a gamer. I'm half here and half there. Why can't someone like Anna be the same? A girl could be a Miss USA contestant, attractive, active, and still consider herself a nerd, can't she? That being said, towards the OP, I think in any walk of life, an attractive human being has a better chance of succeeding than an unattractive one, given similar skillsets and qualifications. I definitely think it's even worse for females. It's a nice thought to think "The gamer community shouldn't be like that" but the companies that sponsor the teams that are part of the "gamer community" want to make money, and having an attractive female player on the team is much more positive publicity for them. The chivalry of it all is nice, but e-sports and gaming is still a business first and foremost. Look in music, the majority of stars are fairly normalized and attractive, men and women. There are fewer .. "different looking" (Adele, for example) women than men, for sure, but the principle still applies. Anyways, good read so far keep the debate rolling!I'd like to echo this posters sentiment, as the "gamer" community is already one that tends to have issues with appearance and self-esteem, gamer girls notwithstanding. While I can definitely attest to the sexism that occurs when female gamers make it known to their fellow gamers that they are indeed female, many of the women who complain about the implications of their gender being known tend to ignore the fact that the bulk of the male gaming community is also suffering discriminations based on attractiveness, hence the entire "nerd in the basement" stereotype. I'm not suggesting that these problems suffered by gamers in general are any sort of excuse for sexist actions, but the fact of the matter is that nerds suffer across the board in our society that places such a high amount of importance on surface level qualities, and oftentimes when gamers lash out at females in the gaming community their actions are spurred by previously disastrous interactions with women in general. For every awkward flirtatious message on bnet there has been almost certainly an infatuation shot down, a public humiliation, or flat out isolation. Don't get me wrong, there is a definite line and sometimes creepy weirdos cross it, but a lot of the awkward general reception of women in the community is endemic of our general societies issues of vanity. This is why I love totally shattering peoples stereotypes of gamers (I'm a powerlifter, former football player, and a strong sense of self-esteem) and I would only encourage female gamers to do the same; revel in difference, ignore the haters/weirdos, and do what love :D | ||
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