EPTStephano situation in ONOG tournament - Page 4
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
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Tenox
Sweden128 Posts
But if not I think it shouldn't be the tournaments fault unless there was a unanimous agreement that there was a terrible schedual. It's fucking obviously going to be tiring to play a tournament and you probably will be pretty tired by the end of a one day tournament but that's what you should EXPECT so when that tiredness then comes raining down on you don't go quitting because of it. If you choose to play two simultaneous tournaments then that's your problem in participating in both of em in the first place if you couldn't take it. One should be capable of knowing his own boundaries. And if one isn't then giving it a shot on a bigger scale then really long practice sessions to see where you're at tenacity-wise is either silly or you just didn't consider this factor at all. If you didn't consider this factor then that is a mistake you won't be taking again the next time and now you learned something from it. This is something I genuinely feel is not something that seems weird that players should know. Because it's a pretty big factor that can come into play when playing competetively. Also obviously emergencies such as CTS acting up or something extreme other than that is a whole different thing. Some double morality is going to come out of this post but I'll try to make it understandable. No the player doesn't OWE the viewer anything specifically but I think that the player OWES the tournament to finish it. Yes this problem occurred because of no regulation, which sucks and I really don't think it should have to come that far either but obviously it does. Might be me being naive or whatever but basically you join a tournament you finish your job, because you're a nice guy right? I mean these guys had been saving up cash for months, a lot of tournaments do. And they have so much preparation and work behind them even if they aren't particularly large scale. And if they then want to invite you as a player then you should be able to be considerate enough to actually consider the work that goes behind setting up a tournament. Therefore if you go through with accepting an invite you should not see it as a "privilege" but you definitely bear a certain responsibility just through sheer "considerateness"(not sure if that is a word but hopefully the point comes across) to actually finish the tournament. Because if you don't that's basically shitting on all the work and effort they put into making that tournament. And how is that being nice in any way shape or form possible. If you are participating in something where people put in that much effort. Doesn't even have to be a lot of effort just some form of effort to get something nice together for the community(because come on that's what it all comes down to right? making it nice for the viewers, obviously the money aspect is nice but doing it for community/viewers is all that matters to me at least and I think it SHOULD for anyone involved in this) then I think you should appreciate that and not quit halfway through. Obviously for emergency reasons that can't be avoided, you're obviously going to have to leave the tournament and that's understandable but for something such as tiredness I just can't buy it. Basically what I think it comes down to is I believe people should be able to trust the good will of another person to actually not shit on all the effort people put in on making a tournament possible and just peace out for some terrible reason. So therefore, yes because you obviously can't do that then we need regulation. So that players actually can't do stuff like this. A little side tangent is that people aren't doing this to this extent in bigger tournaments because the prize money is so huge they wouldn't want to waste a chance on it, but on smaller tournaments it doesn't matter as much. So players can take that risk which I think is faulty thinking. Might be me being very melodramatic or just taking way too much stuff into consideration but I'd really not like to think I am. And yes it is pretty naive to be thinking that every person/player thinks this way but it sucks so much that I can't. tl;dr Basically what I think it comes down to is I believe people should be able to trust the good will of another person to actually not shit on all the effort people put in on making a tournament possible and just peace out for some terrible reason. And because you can't, we need regulation. | ||
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Bayyne
United States1967 Posts
On January 30 2012 19:46 mTw|NarutO wrote: In my opinion Illusion was mad about waiting because he knew he has no chance vs Stephano... ;;. If they decided to start with CatZ vs Kas he would have to wait anyways. ??? Where are you pulling that from? | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
'In my opinion'. Stephano is superior to Illusion - do you want to argue? I guess Illusion would agree. Also he lost 1-3 which is not a terrible rape, but very clear. Do you want clear evidence that Stephano is the better player? There is not. You can compare the achievements , but thats no proof either. Its just my opinion. | ||
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Bayyne
United States1967 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10593 Posts
On January 30 2012 19:31 Jehct wrote: Are the people defending him serious? No professional, in any sports field, forfeits a final because they're fucking tired. Tennis players will play badly through great pain until they concede that they have to give up. Players in team sports will keep going until their coach pulls them off. I don't think a single person has quoted a situation where a top professional in a particular field bows out because they're tired. . Thats not true. At a Grand Slam.. Yes, they will even risk their health for the potential of winning it. At a "small" tournament? Iirc Murray, Djokovic and iirc Nadal forfaited games in 2011 because of "minor" problems. I know you can't compare this even closely because ruining your health is unlikely from that 1 more series of SC2. But even the best Tennis players sometimes forfait matches. I mean, there is obviously a diffrence in effort from Sampras womitting on the court during a grand slam final and Djoko or whoever it was forfaiting a match at some tourney due to having some back pain  .All his actions throughout his 'career' indicate that he shouldn't be called a 'progamer'. He began his career by reneging on a contract after his old team makes a better offer, with only a relatively minor fine thanks to French law. He threw games that actually affected group standings in a major tournament - an act worse than Naniwa's for tournament integrity, but it wasn't broadcasted. 1: Yes, he did some "questionable" things... But as long as the teams put up with it... Well... Their fault. "Thanks to french law"... Well, the law in France is the law in France and i'm sure it's in place for a reason and many people seem to agree with it... 2: It being broadcasted or not is a pretty big factor... But yes, also a bad move. But as long as tournament organizers and others put up with this... Well... Their fault. In order to get a final match, and all of the potential exposure that brings, reshuffling the standings makes sense. When considering professionalism and the integrity of the tournament, however, it is totally unacceptable. You can be damned sure that a professional entity like the IPL would do whatever it takes to get a legitimate final played out, and that a separate penalty would be applied to Stephano. In the end all involved look amateur. This is just the competitive environment of Starcraft 2 right now - without an organised body like KeSPA to oversee and resolve disputes, the players tend to be more like prize-fighters, and the tournaments of little meaning to them. Makes me wish we could just get a few major leagues set-up, with events like ONOG falling under them (like MLG's setup). Seems so much more stable[/quote] Fully agree... There are maybe a hand full Teams/Organisers that are really professional... Most players ARE price fighters.. And they behave as such, why shouldn’t they? Except the GSL no one is really punishing them for acting unprofessional. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On January 30 2012 19:53 Bayyne wrote: No. I'm asking how did you come up with illusion being mad BECAUSE Stephano is better than him. Maybe he was told by admins his match would start at 5, and that he waited 45minutes? Because everything Naruto says is clouded by his appreciation for Stephano as a player. This applies to most posters as no one is completely impartial, but statements such as that just highlight the fact. | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
On January 30 2012 19:53 Bayyne wrote: No. I'm asking how did you come up with illusion being mad BECAUSE Stephano is better than him. Maybe he was told by admins his match would start at 5, and that he waited 45minutes? Assumption? Usually players are very insightful on delays... because they know it can happen;; | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
On January 30 2012 20:00 syllogism wrote: Because everything Naruto says is clouded by his appreciation for Stephano as a player. This applies to most posters as no one is completely impartial, but statements such as that just highlight the fact. ? I am Terran. He is Zerg. I think he's a good player and better than Illusion. Its an assumption / my opinion and I have every right in the world to state it, whats wrong with that? I'd say the same about a player of equal skill I don't like at all so its not "appreciation" / fanboyism for Stephano. I guess a fanboy would not have said Stephano should be punished (after the tournament) or the way he acted was very unprofessional , right?--- | ||
Poopi
France12758 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On January 30 2012 20:03 mTw|NarutO wrote: ? I am Terran. He is Zerg. I think he's a good player and better than Illusion. Its an assumption / my opinion and I have every right in the world to state it, whats wrong with that? I'd say the same about a player of equal skill I don't like at all so its not "appreciation" / fanboyism for Stephano. It's a completely nonsensical assumption. Stephano delayed the tournament because he wanted to eat. That took him 45 minutes. It is also a fact that tournaments have frequently disqualified players for not showing up within a small time frame and 45 minutes certainly is not small nor is "I have to eat" acceptable in most situations. Would it have been fine for every player to take a 45 minute break? The reasonable assumption is that he was annoyed because there was a delay, which usually wouldn't be acceptable. That's it. Nothing wrong with stating your opinion, but from your posting and even merely from that statement you've made it quite clear you are biased on the subject. | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
On January 30 2012 20:07 syllogism wrote: It's a completely nonsensical assumption. Stephano delayed the tournament because he wanted to eat. That took him 45 minutes. It is also a fact that tournaments have frequently disqualified players for not showing up within a small time frame and 45 minutes certainly is not small nor is "I have to eat" acceptable in most situations. The reasonable assumption is that he was annoyed because there was a delay, which usually wouldn't be acceptable. That's it. Nothing wrong with stating your opinion, but from your posting and even merely from that statement you've made it quite clear you are biased on the subject. How am I biased, because I think the reason he was annoyed is another? Players have been qualified for being late. Stephano did ask for the break and the admin did agree to that. The tournament was delayed, because they didn't start of with the other semi final right when the knew Stephano does need a break. I guess I just take my point if view. If I think I will face a very good player and I will most likely lose, I don't want to wait. But I have a lot of respect of Illusion for not trying to get a free win easily, or at least I hope thats the case. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On January 30 2012 20:09 mTw|NarutO wrote: How am I biased, because I think the reason he was annoyed is another? Players have been qualified for being late. Stephano did ask for the break and the admin did agree to that. The tournament was delayed, because they didn't start of with the other semi final right when the knew Stephano does need a break. I guess I just take my point if view. If I think I will face a very good player and I will most likely lose, I don't want to wait. But I have a lot of respect of Illusion for not trying to get a free win easily, or at least I hope thats the case. Fine, I don't really care to argue whether you are biased or not and certainly you are the one who should know that best. However, I do not think it is a fair assumption that he was only annoyed because the mighty Stephano was going to kick his ass. I would even say it's quite rude. | ||
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Bayyne
United States1967 Posts
On January 30 2012 20:15 syllogism wrote: Fine, I don't really care to argue whether you are biased or not and certainly you are the one who should know that best. However, I do not think it is a fair assumption that he was only annoyed because the mighty Stephano was going to kick his ass. I would even say it's quite rude. My thoughts exactly. You skipped the reasonable assumption, which would have been "illusion is mad because he wouldn't have gotten the same treatment" and went straight to "he's mad cuz he knows he's going to lose". Either way, good night! | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
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dtz
5834 Posts
So basically he asked the organizer " hey can i get a meal break?" Organizer replied "sure". So off he went. Hey everyone, I'm the President of ONOG. I just wanted to clear up the air regarding Stephano's and Illusion's match. The problem is not with Stephano but with us. After SCAN finished, Stephano asked if he could take a break and get some food. We told him he could. This caused him to late. Since One Nation of Gamers gave Stephano the green light, we couldn't -in fairness- disqualify him. We shouldn't have told Stephano it was alright without, at least, asking vileIllusion's permission. We apologize to vileIllusion, Team Vile and to the community. We will try to do better in our second Invitational. Best, Deric Ortiz President of One Nation of Gamers For the guys saying a regulation is needed, what kind of regulation will solve this problem? All professional competitions are heavily regulated and people forfeit all the time when they think they are unfit to play. There won't be a regulation saying " You have to finish a tournament no matter what" Even someone as fiercely competitive as Tiger Woods withdrew from a tournament. Anyone from Grand Slam winners to your regular low-ranked tennis players forfeits all the time. Also, don't blame Stephano for signing up for both. A lot of people probably signed up for both. Stephano is just "unfortunate" that he lasted really far in both tournaments and was totally drained as a result. Still, he has his right to forfeit. | ||
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Black17
France435 Posts
On January 30 2012 20:21 mTw|NarutO wrote: So the assumption of Illusion that he wouldn't have gotten the same treatment is not rude? Anyways, thats not the topic to discuss here. Sleep well. It's based on nothing more than rude. No one knows what would have happened, so lets don't assume things and make a new drama out of nothing. | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
Everybody throwing rocks at him for playing in two tournaments - how about the fact that he tries to deliver as much entertainment for esports fans as physically possible, and beyond? Meanwhile the way the tournament handled the situation is perfectly fair, as long as no further penalty is delivered. They had a schedule and couldn't move for just one player, obviously. Stephano takes some financial loss from being dropped to 4th place, that's fine, he can't expect full reward after leaving accidentally due to being tired. I see no reason for drama now. I would appreciate a showmatch Stephano vs Kas though, that's just interesting to see anytime. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
Tournament hosts should seriously consider banning him. | ||
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Taiki
Norway57 Posts
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