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The right decision in my opinion would have been to postpone the finals to another day. That way the fans got robbed a Stephano vs Kas bo5 and got a match with Kas and an inferior player neither the outcome of the 2nd or 3rd place match.
No offence to CatZ or Illusion, they are both good players and its no shame to be worse than Kas. I can understand the decision, but I don't think it was correct. I couldn't care less about Kas vs someone not up to par wit him :x
Edit: if its correct that he stated he didn't want for the 3rd place match to be finished, they could have played the final and cast it from replays. I don't know if he would have agreed on that.
Edit2: I don't think the player owes the fans entertainment. If Stephano feels like he cannot play his best or cannot deliver against Kas because he's too tired I do think his decision to forfeit was nothing but the right choice. If he owes anything to the fans its to show his best performance or at least try to bring his A-game in a final of such a tournament.
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On January 30 2012 16:42 mTw|NarutO wrote:
Edit: if its correct that he stated he didn't want for the 3rd place match to be finished, they could have played the final and cast it from replays. I don't know if he would have agreed on that.
Apparently they offered him this but he just left.
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On January 30 2012 16:47 Daray wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 16:42 mTw|NarutO wrote:
Edit: if its correct that he stated he didn't want for the 3rd place match to be finished, they could have played the final and cast it from replays. I don't know if he would have agreed on that. Apparently they offered him this but he just left.
His own fault then. Still we got robbed a good final;;
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On January 30 2012 16:24 Sadistx wrote:
It's Stephano's loss, both in reputation and money. Maybe planning long term isn't one of his strengths.
Oh well, I'm glad it turned out this way actually. I'd rather watch sick base trades from Illusion vs Kas and marine spread vs tanks than roach/bane being a-moved into walls for 5 games straight.
Oh no he's definitely terrible at thinking lon term. He just does what he feels like and thats that. Idk I have never been a fan of stephano, the way he handled the contract signing (even lying about counter offers iirc) and then some other stuff just makes me hate the guy.
I mean you make it to the finals then say "well i'm to tired so either let me play another day or I forfeit" just so stupid blah whatever sucks he wont' really get punished other then getting 4'th place prize money instead of 2nd.
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It is regrettable, but there's always a chance of this happening in online leagues when the players have to play at stupid hours or even wake up for it (NASL S1). All of this can be avoided through proper organization. If you want to involve top players in the world, your #1 priority is to provide ideal conditions for them to play.
I honestly can't see this ever happening at a Shoutcraft Invitational for example.
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On January 30 2012 16:42 mTw|NarutO wrote:
The right decision in my opinion would have been to postpone the finals to another day. That way the fans got robbed a Stephano vs Kas bo5 and got a match with Kas and an inferior player neither the outcome of the 2nd or 3rd place match.
No offence to CatZ or Illusion, they are both good players and its no shame to be worse than Kas. I can understand the decision, but I don't think it was correct. I couldn't care less about Kas vs someone not up to par wit him :x
Edit: if its correct that he stated he didn't want for the 3rd place match to be finished, they could have played the final and cast it from replays. I don't know if he would have agreed on that.
Edit2: I don't think the player owes the fans entertainment. If Stephano feels like he cannot play his best or cannot deliver against Kas because he's too tired I do think his decision to forfeit was nothing but the right choice. If he owes anything to the fans its to show his best performance or at least try to bring his A-game in a final of such a tournament.
What then does he owe to the tournament who has already made accommodations for him earlier in the day, which very lenient accommodations I might add?
I agree with you that a player doesn't OWE fans entertainment. But I expect a player to play out any match they signed up for, especially when this isn't your first rodeo as a player.
Yeah the fans arguably did get robbed of a higher level finals, but I have Stephano to thank for that.
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It's just unprofessional, really. I am of the opinion that it's Stephano's loss and ONOG handled the situation amicably. He knew what he was getting into when he signed up for the tournament, and they even gave him the option of playing the games so the casters could go from replays. In this case, his stubbornness cost him a pretty good sum of money. It's childish behavior, and it's certainly a shame, but it isn't much more. The real scourge of this situation is how many in the community are going to act towards it, as witchhunt mentality typically prevails in scenarios like these.
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On January 30 2012 16:42 Capped wrote:
Stephano has always been like this, unprofessional and bad mannered, he's a child without much maturity. Look at the way he played two teams off against eachother, signed a contract and then went "well, i dont give a fuck, they offered me more money, cya!"
He's a joke to the SC2 scene and needs to leave if you ask me, this is just proving that fact even more.
Your an idiot if you sign up to two events knowing you wont get a break imbetween, going AWOL then coming back and saying "fuck your tournament, laters" (basically what he did.) You really think thats acceptable? In a tournament with 3k prizemoney?
$3k is alot of money to just throw around willy-nilly and no-one should be messing about or trying to screw a tournament over like he did.
Because no other pro player does play more than one tournament at once lol. Just yesterday Polt won against Delphi in the Zotac Semifinals just to give a walkover in the finals because he wanted to play the Polarfluke finals vs BLY because there was more money involved.
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You know what you sign up for really. Nice save by the tournament and remaining players (who we already knew were awesome but still), bit of an unprofessional move by Stephano. I guess these things happen, but really shouldn't, hope he takes that away from this as well.
Now you guys in the back with the torches and pitchforks.. no no, don't pretend innocent with me, I saw you. Please don't ><
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On January 30 2012 16:56 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 16:42 Capped wrote:
Stephano has always been like this, unprofessional and bad mannered, he's a child without much maturity. Look at the way he played two teams off against eachother, signed a contract and then went "well, i dont give a fuck, they offered me more money, cya!"
He's a joke to the SC2 scene and needs to leave if you ask me, this is just proving that fact even more.
Your an idiot if you sign up to two events knowing you wont get a break imbetween, going AWOL then coming back and saying "fuck your tournament, laters" (basically what he did.) You really think thats acceptable? In a tournament with 3k prizemoney?
$3k is alot of money to just throw around willy-nilly and no-one should be messing about or trying to screw a tournament over like he did. Because no other pro player does play more than one tournament at once lol. Just yesterday Polt won against Delphi in the Zotac Semifinals just to give a walkover in the finals because he wanted to play the Polarfluke finals vs BLY because there was more money involved.
Well that sucks too 
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On January 30 2012 16:25 corumjhaelen wrote:
It sounds like Stephano made a pretty understandable decision and that ONOG reacted correctly. Everything sounds pretty right.
ONOG reacted nicely for the viewers, but I don't think Stephano will be happy to know he was just "robbed" of his money. He won his matches, decided to forfeit the final, and he will get nothing. From a sports point of view, it is not acceptable to win and not to be rewarded for that. Reaction from ONOG was great for the viewers ; some players will be happy too, and they had an intersting final after all ; so this is the less worse (= the best) decision they could make imo.
On the other side, IMO it's more his fault that this situation occured. He engaged himself on two tournaments at the same time, and we don't know if he warned both organizers. Players should be honest and warn the organizers so they can refuse/accept the situation and it's their own problem ; if he did, then I can't be happy of ONOG's decision : they accepted his participation, this also means they accepted his forfeit. If he did not, then there is an issue with his behaviour (I'm sure he's not the only one in this case) and then ONOG cannot be blamed for trying to get the best decision possible. As far as I know, eSports is the only "sports" when there are weekends tournaments every week, and where players have the possibility to play 2 (or more) at the same time. If it's obviously not a problem for the "lesser" players, for the kind of Stephano it can quickly becom a problem and this situation is a perfect example.
I think the real problem here is how Stephano handled the whole thing. Even assuming he warned the organizers that he was already engaged, I don't understand why he delayed his semi-finals for so much time, just to forfeit after. It seem the reason here is money. Again I can only guess that Stephano's take on this is : you play for money, you get the more you can, and you try to keep the best shape possible to win more, but this means you can fuck up a whole tournament. While this is morally bad, this is perfectly understandable. But this kind of situation should not happen.
Overall, while typing this post, I have the feeling I supported Stephano the more. This is weird because at first I disapprove his behaviour with the organizers, also I do think ONOG took the best decision possible overall... but I would be mad if I was Stephano. He put them in a bad situation but for reasons that either are morally bad, or morally completely normal, depending on which side you put your shoes in. My conclusion would be : players of a certain caliber should not be allowed to play two (or more) tournaments whose final rounds take place the same day ; and to avoid the correct calibration of said caliber, I'd say "you can't play two tournaments at once." On "real" sports, you'll never see that ; the examples where team play more than one tournament are when the tournaments are lasting over months, and where you can schedule far in advance. Other than that, it never happens. It. Never. Happens.
Edit : this is the last time I try to think about that kind of problem early in the morning. I'll become schyzophrenic, and overall I can't fucking decide who is to blame and who is not. Reading my post again, I have the feeling I just shat a wall of evidence. Dsfargeg asdasdasd.
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On January 30 2012 16:48 Talin wrote:
It is regrettable, but there's always a chance of this happening in online leagues when the players have to play at stupid hours or even wake up for it (NASL S1). All of this can be avoided through proper organization. If you want to involve top players in the world, your #1 priority is to provide ideal conditions for them to play.
I honestly can't see this ever happening at a Shoutcraft Invitational for example.
Stephano is the reason the event was running later than expected. Further, these are normal conditions for most pro players and shoutcraft only has euros. The only reason the conditions weren't good for him stem from his own time management.
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On January 30 2012 16:54 Bayyne wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 16:42 mTw|NarutO wrote:
The right decision in my opinion would have been to postpone the finals to another day. That way the fans got robbed a Stephano vs Kas bo5 and got a match with Kas and an inferior player neither the outcome of the 2nd or 3rd place match.
No offence to CatZ or Illusion, they are both good players and its no shame to be worse than Kas. I can understand the decision, but I don't think it was correct. I couldn't care less about Kas vs someone not up to par wit him :x
Edit: if its correct that he stated he didn't want for the 3rd place match to be finished, they could have played the final and cast it from replays. I don't know if he would have agreed on that.
Edit2: I don't think the player owes the fans entertainment. If Stephano feels like he cannot play his best or cannot deliver against Kas because he's too tired I do think his decision to forfeit was nothing but the right choice. If he owes anything to the fans its to show his best performance or at least try to bring his A-game in a final of such a tournament. What then does he owe to the tournament who has already made accommodations for him earlier in the day, which very lenient accommodations I might add? I agree with you that a player doesn't OWE fans entertainment. But I expect a player to play out any match they signed up for, especially when this isn't your first rodeo as a player. Yeah the fans arguably did get robbed of a higher level finals, but I have Stephano to thank for that.
He doesn't owe the tournament anything. It was their decision to invite him. He did play it to the point where he decided he cannot play anymore. Next time they probably won't invite him. He didn't drop a single map in the SCAN invite and did also play the semifinals at the ONOG. I agree the way he did forfeit wasn't very professional but it was a to me reasonable decision.
I don't could or should blame ONOG for the decision they made, but that doesn't mean I agree with it. They offered to play the finals and cast it from replays and he didn't accept that - tough luck and not very clever if you ask me, but if you have no contract with the players that can force them to play (i.e $ penalty if they quit for whatever reason) thats just how it goes.
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On January 30 2012 16:56 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 16:42 Capped wrote:
Stephano has always been like this, unprofessional and bad mannered, he's a child without much maturity. Look at the way he played two teams off against eachother, signed a contract and then went "well, i dont give a fuck, they offered me more money, cya!"
He's a joke to the SC2 scene and needs to leave if you ask me, this is just proving that fact even more.
Your an idiot if you sign up to two events knowing you wont get a break imbetween, going AWOL then coming back and saying "fuck your tournament, laters" (basically what he did.) You really think thats acceptable? In a tournament with 3k prizemoney?
$3k is alot of money to just throw around willy-nilly and no-one should be messing about or trying to screw a tournament over like he did. Because no other pro player does play more than one tournament at once lol. Just yesterday Polt won against Delphi in the Zotac Semifinals just to give a walkover in the finals because he wanted to play the Polarfluke finals vs BLY because there was more money involved.
Then its stupid and irresponsible if you ask me, but giving a walkover to play in another tournament is different from a forfeit because your just "too tired" - You signed up to them both knowing they will run for X amount of time together. Wouldnt you agree? Polt probably gave the forfeit (fuck i cba to google this word and its so hard to sound out and spell >.>) because he either wanted a shot at more money, "sure" money or something of the kind. (sure money in the sense he has a better shot at it etc, choosing one or the other would make u go with that one  )
Polts probably in the wrong for playing them both IF he knew their schedules for them both in advance of signing up, it doesnt really compare to stephano's as its a different situation.
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Maybe Stephano thought this tournament was so small no one would know? I went to bed after waiting for stephano to play vs illusion so I don't know about the surrounding circumstances, but I can't really see justifying Stephano getting away without being severely punished.
A korean would have been banned from his team and banned from most tournaments for at least a year for doing something like this. Overshadows all previous similar incidents.
EDIT: I ended up sounding overly dramatic, to clarify, I'm not suggesting that he should be banned from tourneys for a year, but neither should he go entirely unpunished.
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It is not reasonable or understandable because he knew or should have known the games might run late and he was himself responsible for some of the delay. He could have chosen to sleep longer and forgo streaming. These were not unexpected or abnormal conditions, but rather quite expected. It's like showing up for night shift and then complaining you didn't sleep adequately. Of course the situations differ in that he is not under a contract. I find it difficult to believe he was so tired he couldn't just grab an energy drink or a cup of coffee as it's very unlikely he spent the day doing something particularly exhausting.
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I don't get why people start drama any time there is a forfeit.
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Stephano is so arrogant. IMO it makes perfect sense what happened. He's a "professional" gamer, he can't just quit when he wants to and expect to get away with it. If my company tells me we need a project finished on saturday, I'm not going to give an ultimatum saying that I will do it on monday or not complete the project. I'm going to work on saturday, because I'm a professional.
If you don't take the game seriously, don't apply to tournaments.
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From a PR perspective, it's a poor handle of the situation from Stephano. Sunday could had gone down in history as when Stephano took down two titles in a day, but it didn't. The negative publicity washed out something that could been special. While we're picking winners and losers, it's important that everyone involved will work to make amends and find closure.
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On January 30 2012 17:49 Tobberoth wrote:
Stephano is so arrogant. IMO it makes perfect sense what happened. He's a "professional" gamer, he can't just quit when he wants to and expect to get away with it. If my company tells me we need a project finished on saturday, I'm not going to give an ultimatum saying that I will do it on monday or not complete the project.
If you are by and far your company's most valuable asset they cannot afford to lose, you most certainly can do that.
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EPT
