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I'm posting this as a blog because it's primarily my opinion on the matter.
Also I will preface this by saying I am not directly affiliated with ONOG so anything I say here is purely a personal statement/opinion. I was privileged to be helping in person with the stream and obsing/controlling screen during matches today for all the semifinals/finals and 3rd place match for ONOG invitational tournament.
As anyone watching earlier tonight knows ONOG had to make a very difficult decision during their first ever invitational tournament played this weekend. for anyone who wasn't watching or doesn't know what happened this post from Deric, CEO of ONOG explains the situation well: + Show Spoiler +Hello, this is Deric, the President of One Nation of Gamers. While we were gearing up to begin the 3rd place match, Stephano stated that it was too late for him to play and that he was going to be going to sleep. He gave us the ultimatium that if he can't play another day he will forfeit the match and then logged off.
If One Nation of Gamers is going to work out and do our part to grow eSports, we have to be an organization that puts the fans first. Given that principle, I came to the decision to penalize Stephano and move him to 4th place, have Catz and Illusion play for 2nd/3rd, and have the victor play against Kas.
Everyone involved with One Nation of Gamers has worked incredibly hard -for months- to raise the $3,000 that we've put up for grabs. It's not a lot to everyone, but it's a lot to us and represents month of volunteer work. We decided to run this tournament to give back to eSports, we wanted to help the pros earn a little more and we wanted to provide some great content to the fans. We believe everyone deserves to see an appropriate final series for $1,500.
I realize this decision might be unpopular and I apologize profusely. Lastly, I would like to thank Kas, Catz and Illusion for agreeing to stay and finish these matches out for the fans.
Totally professional and awesome response on the fly to a situation that threw a wrench into the entire event finals. As an organizer of local events myself I've had to deal with some weird stuff, disconnects, random stuff, people showing up to stuff late, being hard to schedule with or coordinate with. Having to resolve stuff on the fly is pretty stressful and not something you really ever can even plan for and can really potentially ruin an event. You can plan out the best event ever and everything can be going perfectly but unknown shit can come flying in out of nowhere which as an event organizer is never fun. (and tends to happen more often than naught)
Stephano was tired yes, he had played in the scan invitational for at least a few hours right before as well which was an unfortunate coincidence of scheduling, due to the vast amount of sc2 events going on it's no easy task finding time slots for broadcasting events. After Stephano finished in Scan Invitational he asked for some time after to get food before playing his semifinal match vs vileIllusion, he was granted this but ended up disappearing for almost an hour which delayed the start of the event broadcast. Eventually Catz vs Kas was broadcast first when Stephano was nowhere to be found after a delay of at least 45 minutes. This was not only pretty rough for the event but also for Illusion to have to deal with, shows up for what he expects a match at 5 and waits for 45 minutes before being told it's not going to be for another 2 hours...
After Stephano got back he played Illusion and right after winning he complained that it was late and didn't want to wait for 3rd place match and that he would just forfeit the finals match. He logged off pretty quickly after this which throws ONOG into a pretty ridiculous situation. I think they made the correct decision though but it definitely wasn't easy. Great job by MrBitter having to explain this and break the news in the best possible way explaining a pretty weird situation that you don't really have to deal with every day. They could have simply allowed the finals to be lost, (give Kas first, Stephano second and cut the stream off) but the finals of an event is literally your prime material which Stephano was jeopardizing without showing any concern whatsoever. He wasn't really being easy to work with AT all and things I think eventually started adding up. It wasn't really a simple forfeit at that point Stephano had done multiple things to screw with the event.
A player can of course forfeit a match at any time if they are unwilling to play. But in my opinion as a professional in this business you owe it to your team, the event, fans, anyone involved to play the matches. And because Stephano did not do this I am personally pretty disappointed in him. The manner with which he forfeit was pretty bad too. He easily could have simply forfeit before even playing the semifinal match. This would have helped the event, simply advance Illusion. Instead Stephano not only delayed the event but even after showing up and playing he peaces out without much care for anyone involved. This is pretty ridiculous behavior in my opinion. The times of matches were communicated well in advance so if he felt the match time was too late or he would have issues you correct it days in advance. Don't wait for it to happen and just complain. Also the manner with which he left was just like "k forfeit peace" obviously not really caring about any of the aforementioned things. At the very least when you have 13k viewers on a stream tuning in to watch sc2, you owe them, the fans. This is an entertainment business and saying your too tired isn't entertaining anyone other than bringing out the pitchforks. (which btw is actually quite entertaining in its own way) But seriously if your going to act like this I don't think you should even be playing the game. Kennigit had a pretty strong tweet on the matter earlier which I found very interesting:
"The fact that a player can jeopardize a broadcast put on mainly by volunteers is abhorrent. Should be met with tournament bans all around."
Raises another question but this could honestly be a topic for a whole separate blog post.
Meanwhile Kas who is in similar time zone was completely cooperative the entire time which was awesome to see. I didn't really know Kas before this event other than just seeing his games, but I'm a huge fan now. The guy is really awesome/good mannered and an extremely talented player, easily the best non korean Terran player currently in my opinion.
At the end of the day honestly running tournaments isn't easy, some players are more difficult to work with than others though that's for sure. Anyone who deals with players on the management side of sc2 can probably attest to this. Sometimes even insanely talented players have issues staying on teams or in general just because they are so difficult to work with in public or from a management standpoint.
At the end of the day ONOG is just a really awesome organization and I support them 100%. They go above and beyond and it really means alot to players, coordinators, managers, anyone interacting with them basically, total class act all around which is what will help esports grow. We are privileged to have people like this helping the sc2 community, anyone who lives near any of the locations of their barcrafts should get out and help support because they are doing great things for the community.
~LF
>_>;
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if players do not take the game seriously, then it looks real bad from the point of view of sponsors. bad move stephy
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Might as well repost from ONOG thread..
On January 30 2012 15:59 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 15:29 shaberu wrote:
Most people aren't arguing that Stephano behaved professionally, but, rather, that ONOG was also unprofessional in the way they handled the situation. Forfeiting a match that people were waiting to see played may have consequences for Stephano in the future, certainly, but he obviously wasn't going to throw the games quickly after the recent drama over Naniwa. ONOG, however, behaved in an equally unprofessional manner by revoking the earned prize money of a player without notifying the player (as they admittedly report that Stephano was offline and they had no means of contacting him, which, in itself, is highly unprofessional).
This is a case of both parties behaving in a disrespectful and unprofessional manner, not a battle between who you like/hate more. Stephano deserves his money and to be viewed with the approbation he deserves. ONOG should have thought about the possibilities and prepared in advance. If they think it's fair and professional to back on out advertised prize pools, they should probably get their players to sign a contract.
The problem is that, as an organization, ONOG saddles the other side of the equation we've seen previously in posts regarding tournament winnings and shady organizations. Sure, players (without rehashing the numerous cases we've seen recently) have their own issues, but when tournaments arbitrarily screw players over citing entertainment value, it sets a bad precedent. They clearly stated that the reason Stephano was not given his earned prize was due to his performance not being worthy of a $1,500 final set of games. What performance is worthy, then? If he cheesed out the matches, would that be worthy? If he threw the games entirely, would that be worthy? If the games were just boring, would that be worthy? Was Stephano's performance over the course of the tournament only worth 4th place? Should we start giving out prize money based on how entertaining games were? While the ShoutCraft tip jar is perhaps a great idea, changing advertised prize amounts based on perceived entertainment value is not. Not only that, but was any money made off advertising during the Stephano games? How many viewers can be attributed to having watched specifically for Stephano? There are a lot of less-tangible factors that would come into play.
ONOG didn't think. They made an idiotic split-second decision, and they should pay Stephano his winnings (and, well, I guess pay Illusion the same). Stephano should make yet another PR apology to fans, because everyone knows it won't be sincere and that he probably doesn't care.
I know I'd certainly never support an ONOG event again. They've basically fallen into the trap that plagues esports at the moment:
1 - No back-up plan. Obviously, by now, this is necessity. It is your responsibility to entertain viewers.
2 - Arbitrary revoking/modifying prize pools with no notice to players. This is just disgusting, whether or not Stephano "deserved it" for his behaviour or not. It's not up to you to decide whether matches (or non-matches) were "worth" money unless players have agreed to this beforehand. It is your responsible to payout as advertised.
If Stephano deserves to be banned from tournaments for his unprofessional behaviour, ONOG deserves to be boycotted by players for theirs. You can't have it both ways; professionalism should be displayed from both sides, or we're never going to get anywhere. As a player, I completely disagree. I give three reasons for my disagreement, and I believe it's entirely Stephano's fault. Here is why: 1. Stephano was playing two tournaments at once, and forced a 40 minute delay of his semi-final. This in itself is quite rude and could have warranted a walkover being given. Obviously ONOG was trying their best to avoid the situation, but it still does not look good for Stephano. 2. ONOG offered Stephano to play the finals immediately, and to cast from replays, rather than wait for the third place match. This is an extremely generous and lenient offer, and Stephano simply gave ONOG an ultimatum and logged off. 3. It's ridiculously irresponsible of Stephano to log off knowing they have none of your contact info, after giving a ridiculous ultimatum they can't afford to meet. ONOG had outlined the schedule of the tournament beforehand, and Stephano completely disrespected this after ACCEPTING HIS INVITATION and playing through the entire day without any complaint or warning to ONOG. Perhaps he could've said earlier "I don't think I can play the finals at this time" but he simply waited til then, said he was tired, and gave ONOG no opportunity to provide a real solution. "I was tired" is a ridiculous excuse for the finals of a tournament, and cheesing or even drone rushing the finals is by far more respectable than what Stephano did. No one can force a player to try his best one hundred percent, but by accepting an invitation or signing up for a tournament, you're agreeing to play it through. It's ridiculous that we should have to contract players to every tournament, and as a player I completely support and respect ONOG's decision. The advertised prizemoney was assuming that he actually did complete the tournament placing in second. He obviously didn't do that. Had he reasonably earned the second place money? Possibly, but the three reasons above IMO give plenty of evidence that ONOG tried their hardest to find a solution and simply couldn't under Stephano's absurd terms.
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Wow, thats pretty awesome. It was really an interesting decision but looking back it's definitely the correct one.
edit: Can you imagine if in the NBA finals the East conference champs decided to just not play and forfeit?
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I would like to point out that LuckyFool came over for the waffle party, and ending up observing the matches for us. It was absolutely amazing of him to do so.
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It was pretty late for EU people, but then again, he knew the schedule before he signed up to it? I made a concious decision not to watch it because I had to be up early for work, I think most people would agree with me in that you shouldn't promise to do something and then backtrack. Added to that fact he was playing in the final and was a major draw because watchers would have loved to see a Kas vs Stephano final.
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I agree with Pokebunny + Show Spoiler +even though he called me a bad word in another blog! T_T
It's really just a great lack of respect for an organization that's trying hard to make things work. I sort of wish a bit of a bigger deal of it was being made since I doubt Stephano will get as much poor attention as it probably deserves to help him smarten up. Can't let their heads get too big.
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So many people getting their panties in a knot. Yeah, it sucks for the tournament but what are you going to do? The man knew he wouldn't play very well. If he pulled a Naniwa would people be happy? What if he did some roach/ling all-in halfheartedly?
The only thing you could call him out on is not waiting another two minutes to discuss the fact that he wanted to forfeit, which is a trivial matter of social etiquette and nothing else - everyone else would have still had to deal with the fact that he quit in the same way.
The fact is, we have no idea anything about Stephano's health, perspective, or standard sleep schedule. If he was too tired to play, he was too tired to play.
If you could force him to play the games, you would end up with shit games.
If you let him forfeit, you end up with an awkward hole in the scheduling.
I feel sorry for the internet which demands 100% from players 100% of the time as if they aren't human. He forfeit, it's not a big deal... but instead there's a thousand-post reddit about it and no doubt he will have to deal with some shit in the morning.
It's really too bad the community has to break out the pitchforks and fire any time anyone does ANYTHING.
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What time was it ? How long had they been playing ? Was Stephano told when he was invited that he may have to stay up all night ?
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The more I think about it, the more I'm amazed at the decision. Having a 2/3 match is definitely the best. It makes it like a loser bracket final formal.
A 2/4 match or having illusion advance to the finals is both extremely unfair.
A 3/4 match and a forfeit finals is just bad sponsorship etc.
Awesome job and quick thinking!
edit: imagine this, "our ace player is injured" so we forfeit nba finals.
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On January 30 2012 16:12 endy wrote:
What time was it ? How long had they been playing ? Was Stephano told when he was invited that he may have to stay up all night ?
We sent all the players a copy of the rules that hashed out when each match would be played before the pool play started.
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I'm with Kennigit on this one.
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United States13143 Posts
On January 30 2012 15:55 LuckyFool wrote:
Meanwhile Kas who is in similar time zone was completely cooperative the entire time which was awesome to see. I didn't really know Kas before this event other than just seeing his games, but I'm a huge fan now. The guy is really awesome/good mannered and an extremely talented player, easily the best non korean Terran player currently in my opinion.
I think the fact that Kas was under similar conditions as Stephano is something that people don't seem to realize about all this. He was also in SCAN, although he had to play one less match(got knocked out in the semis, no third place match). On the other hand, he even lives an hour later than Stephano. Stephano refused to play a match that would start around 2-3AM his time. Kas ended up playing(and winning) a match that started around 5AM his time. When your opponent is under similar conditions to you, it invalidates these kind of complaints a little, I think.
(That said, if it's possible it would be for the best if players didn't have to play in the middle of the night.)
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drone rushing the finals is by far more respectable than what Stephano did.
Well not really.
A player can of course forfeit a match at any time if they are unwilling to play.
This pretty much justifies what stephano did. He was simply exercising his own rights.
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It's Stephano's loss, both in reputation and money. Maybe planning long term isn't one of his strengths.
Oh well, I'm glad it turned out this way actually. I'd rather watch sick base trades from Illusion vs Kas and marine spread vs tanks than roach/bane being a-moved into walls for 5 games straight.
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10387 Posts
Stephano's only playing the game to get as much money up to a certain date, then quitting right? So his attitude isn't very surprising, but a damn shame indeed :\
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It sounds like Stephano made a pretty understandable decision and that ONOG reacted correctly. Everything sounds pretty right.
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I'd understand if he had early wake up to school or work but correct me if im wrong but this is his job? Take a nap or something if you know it's going to be a long night.
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I heard he was playing tournys for 12 hours and it was 2 am with another bo7 coming up. For a guy who only likes to play 4 hours a day, that's probably pretty tiresome. I do agree with their decision though. A player is expected to play those matches for the sake of the organization holding the event.
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Stephano has always been like this, unprofessional and bad mannered, he's a child without much maturity. Look at the way he played two teams off against eachother, signed a contract and then went "well, i dont give a fuck, they offered me more money, cya!"
He's a joke to the SC2 scene and needs to leave if you ask me, this is just proving that fact even more.
Your an idiot if you sign up to two events knowing you wont get a break imbetween, going AWOL then coming back and saying "fuck your tournament, laters" (basically what he did.) You really think thats acceptable? In a tournament with 3k prizemoney?
$3k is alot of money to just throw around willy-nilly and no-one should be messing about or trying to screw a tournament over like he did.
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The right decision in my opinion would have been to postpone the finals to another day. That way the fans got robbed a Stephano vs Kas bo5 and got a match with Kas and an inferior player neither the outcome of the 2nd or 3rd place match.
No offence to CatZ or Illusion, they are both good players and its no shame to be worse than Kas. I can understand the decision, but I don't think it was correct. I couldn't care less about Kas vs someone not up to par wit him :x
Edit: if its correct that he stated he didn't want for the 3rd place match to be finished, they could have played the final and cast it from replays. I don't know if he would have agreed on that.
Edit2: I don't think the player owes the fans entertainment. If Stephano feels like he cannot play his best or cannot deliver against Kas because he's too tired I do think his decision to forfeit was nothing but the right choice. If he owes anything to the fans its to show his best performance or at least try to bring his A-game in a final of such a tournament.
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On January 30 2012 16:42 mTw|NarutO wrote:
Edit: if its correct that he stated he didn't want for the 3rd place match to be finished, they could have played the final and cast it from replays. I don't know if he would have agreed on that.
Apparently they offered him this but he just left.
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On January 30 2012 16:47 Daray wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 16:42 mTw|NarutO wrote:
Edit: if its correct that he stated he didn't want for the 3rd place match to be finished, they could have played the final and cast it from replays. I don't know if he would have agreed on that. Apparently they offered him this but he just left.
His own fault then. Still we got robbed a good final;;
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On January 30 2012 16:24 Sadistx wrote:
It's Stephano's loss, both in reputation and money. Maybe planning long term isn't one of his strengths.
Oh well, I'm glad it turned out this way actually. I'd rather watch sick base trades from Illusion vs Kas and marine spread vs tanks than roach/bane being a-moved into walls for 5 games straight.
Oh no he's definitely terrible at thinking lon term. He just does what he feels like and thats that. Idk I have never been a fan of stephano, the way he handled the contract signing (even lying about counter offers iirc) and then some other stuff just makes me hate the guy.
I mean you make it to the finals then say "well i'm to tired so either let me play another day or I forfeit" just so stupid blah whatever sucks he wont' really get punished other then getting 4'th place prize money instead of 2nd.
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It is regrettable, but there's always a chance of this happening in online leagues when the players have to play at stupid hours or even wake up for it (NASL S1). All of this can be avoided through proper organization. If you want to involve top players in the world, your #1 priority is to provide ideal conditions for them to play.
I honestly can't see this ever happening at a Shoutcraft Invitational for example.
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On January 30 2012 16:42 mTw|NarutO wrote:
The right decision in my opinion would have been to postpone the finals to another day. That way the fans got robbed a Stephano vs Kas bo5 and got a match with Kas and an inferior player neither the outcome of the 2nd or 3rd place match.
No offence to CatZ or Illusion, they are both good players and its no shame to be worse than Kas. I can understand the decision, but I don't think it was correct. I couldn't care less about Kas vs someone not up to par wit him :x
Edit: if its correct that he stated he didn't want for the 3rd place match to be finished, they could have played the final and cast it from replays. I don't know if he would have agreed on that.
Edit2: I don't think the player owes the fans entertainment. If Stephano feels like he cannot play his best or cannot deliver against Kas because he's too tired I do think his decision to forfeit was nothing but the right choice. If he owes anything to the fans its to show his best performance or at least try to bring his A-game in a final of such a tournament.
What then does he owe to the tournament who has already made accommodations for him earlier in the day, which very lenient accommodations I might add?
I agree with you that a player doesn't OWE fans entertainment. But I expect a player to play out any match they signed up for, especially when this isn't your first rodeo as a player.
Yeah the fans arguably did get robbed of a higher level finals, but I have Stephano to thank for that.
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It's just unprofessional, really. I am of the opinion that it's Stephano's loss and ONOG handled the situation amicably. He knew what he was getting into when he signed up for the tournament, and they even gave him the option of playing the games so the casters could go from replays. In this case, his stubbornness cost him a pretty good sum of money. It's childish behavior, and it's certainly a shame, but it isn't much more. The real scourge of this situation is how many in the community are going to act towards it, as witchhunt mentality typically prevails in scenarios like these.
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On January 30 2012 16:42 Capped wrote:
Stephano has always been like this, unprofessional and bad mannered, he's a child without much maturity. Look at the way he played two teams off against eachother, signed a contract and then went "well, i dont give a fuck, they offered me more money, cya!"
He's a joke to the SC2 scene and needs to leave if you ask me, this is just proving that fact even more.
Your an idiot if you sign up to two events knowing you wont get a break imbetween, going AWOL then coming back and saying "fuck your tournament, laters" (basically what he did.) You really think thats acceptable? In a tournament with 3k prizemoney?
$3k is alot of money to just throw around willy-nilly and no-one should be messing about or trying to screw a tournament over like he did.
Because no other pro player does play more than one tournament at once lol. Just yesterday Polt won against Delphi in the Zotac Semifinals just to give a walkover in the finals because he wanted to play the Polarfluke finals vs BLY because there was more money involved.
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You know what you sign up for really. Nice save by the tournament and remaining players (who we already knew were awesome but still), bit of an unprofessional move by Stephano. I guess these things happen, but really shouldn't, hope he takes that away from this as well.
Now you guys in the back with the torches and pitchforks.. no no, don't pretend innocent with me, I saw you. Please don't ><
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On January 30 2012 16:56 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 16:42 Capped wrote:
Stephano has always been like this, unprofessional and bad mannered, he's a child without much maturity. Look at the way he played two teams off against eachother, signed a contract and then went "well, i dont give a fuck, they offered me more money, cya!"
He's a joke to the SC2 scene and needs to leave if you ask me, this is just proving that fact even more.
Your an idiot if you sign up to two events knowing you wont get a break imbetween, going AWOL then coming back and saying "fuck your tournament, laters" (basically what he did.) You really think thats acceptable? In a tournament with 3k prizemoney?
$3k is alot of money to just throw around willy-nilly and no-one should be messing about or trying to screw a tournament over like he did. Because no other pro player does play more than one tournament at once lol. Just yesterday Polt won against Delphi in the Zotac Semifinals just to give a walkover in the finals because he wanted to play the Polarfluke finals vs BLY because there was more money involved.
Well that sucks too 
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On January 30 2012 16:25 corumjhaelen wrote:
It sounds like Stephano made a pretty understandable decision and that ONOG reacted correctly. Everything sounds pretty right.
ONOG reacted nicely for the viewers, but I don't think Stephano will be happy to know he was just "robbed" of his money. He won his matches, decided to forfeit the final, and he will get nothing. From a sports point of view, it is not acceptable to win and not to be rewarded for that. Reaction from ONOG was great for the viewers ; some players will be happy too, and they had an intersting final after all ; so this is the less worse (= the best) decision they could make imo.
On the other side, IMO it's more his fault that this situation occured. He engaged himself on two tournaments at the same time, and we don't know if he warned both organizers. Players should be honest and warn the organizers so they can refuse/accept the situation and it's their own problem ; if he did, then I can't be happy of ONOG's decision : they accepted his participation, this also means they accepted his forfeit. If he did not, then there is an issue with his behaviour (I'm sure he's not the only one in this case) and then ONOG cannot be blamed for trying to get the best decision possible. As far as I know, eSports is the only "sports" when there are weekends tournaments every week, and where players have the possibility to play 2 (or more) at the same time. If it's obviously not a problem for the "lesser" players, for the kind of Stephano it can quickly becom a problem and this situation is a perfect example.
I think the real problem here is how Stephano handled the whole thing. Even assuming he warned the organizers that he was already engaged, I don't understand why he delayed his semi-finals for so much time, just to forfeit after. It seem the reason here is money. Again I can only guess that Stephano's take on this is : you play for money, you get the more you can, and you try to keep the best shape possible to win more, but this means you can fuck up a whole tournament. While this is morally bad, this is perfectly understandable. But this kind of situation should not happen.
Overall, while typing this post, I have the feeling I supported Stephano the more. This is weird because at first I disapprove his behaviour with the organizers, also I do think ONOG took the best decision possible overall... but I would be mad if I was Stephano. He put them in a bad situation but for reasons that either are morally bad, or morally completely normal, depending on which side you put your shoes in. My conclusion would be : players of a certain caliber should not be allowed to play two (or more) tournaments whose final rounds take place the same day ; and to avoid the correct calibration of said caliber, I'd say "you can't play two tournaments at once." On "real" sports, you'll never see that ; the examples where team play more than one tournament are when the tournaments are lasting over months, and where you can schedule far in advance. Other than that, it never happens. It. Never. Happens.
Edit : this is the last time I try to think about that kind of problem early in the morning. I'll become schyzophrenic, and overall I can't fucking decide who is to blame and who is not. Reading my post again, I have the feeling I just shat a wall of evidence. Dsfargeg asdasdasd.
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On January 30 2012 16:48 Talin wrote:
It is regrettable, but there's always a chance of this happening in online leagues when the players have to play at stupid hours or even wake up for it (NASL S1). All of this can be avoided through proper organization. If you want to involve top players in the world, your #1 priority is to provide ideal conditions for them to play.
I honestly can't see this ever happening at a Shoutcraft Invitational for example.
Stephano is the reason the event was running later than expected. Further, these are normal conditions for most pro players and shoutcraft only has euros. The only reason the conditions weren't good for him stem from his own time management.
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On January 30 2012 16:54 Bayyne wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 16:42 mTw|NarutO wrote:
The right decision in my opinion would have been to postpone the finals to another day. That way the fans got robbed a Stephano vs Kas bo5 and got a match with Kas and an inferior player neither the outcome of the 2nd or 3rd place match.
No offence to CatZ or Illusion, they are both good players and its no shame to be worse than Kas. I can understand the decision, but I don't think it was correct. I couldn't care less about Kas vs someone not up to par wit him :x
Edit: if its correct that he stated he didn't want for the 3rd place match to be finished, they could have played the final and cast it from replays. I don't know if he would have agreed on that.
Edit2: I don't think the player owes the fans entertainment. If Stephano feels like he cannot play his best or cannot deliver against Kas because he's too tired I do think his decision to forfeit was nothing but the right choice. If he owes anything to the fans its to show his best performance or at least try to bring his A-game in a final of such a tournament. What then does he owe to the tournament who has already made accommodations for him earlier in the day, which very lenient accommodations I might add? I agree with you that a player doesn't OWE fans entertainment. But I expect a player to play out any match they signed up for, especially when this isn't your first rodeo as a player. Yeah the fans arguably did get robbed of a higher level finals, but I have Stephano to thank for that.
He doesn't owe the tournament anything. It was their decision to invite him. He did play it to the point where he decided he cannot play anymore. Next time they probably won't invite him. He didn't drop a single map in the SCAN invite and did also play the semifinals at the ONOG. I agree the way he did forfeit wasn't very professional but it was a to me reasonable decision.
I don't could or should blame ONOG for the decision they made, but that doesn't mean I agree with it. They offered to play the finals and cast it from replays and he didn't accept that - tough luck and not very clever if you ask me, but if you have no contract with the players that can force them to play (i.e $ penalty if they quit for whatever reason) thats just how it goes.
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On January 30 2012 16:56 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 16:42 Capped wrote:
Stephano has always been like this, unprofessional and bad mannered, he's a child without much maturity. Look at the way he played two teams off against eachother, signed a contract and then went "well, i dont give a fuck, they offered me more money, cya!"
He's a joke to the SC2 scene and needs to leave if you ask me, this is just proving that fact even more.
Your an idiot if you sign up to two events knowing you wont get a break imbetween, going AWOL then coming back and saying "fuck your tournament, laters" (basically what he did.) You really think thats acceptable? In a tournament with 3k prizemoney?
$3k is alot of money to just throw around willy-nilly and no-one should be messing about or trying to screw a tournament over like he did. Because no other pro player does play more than one tournament at once lol. Just yesterday Polt won against Delphi in the Zotac Semifinals just to give a walkover in the finals because he wanted to play the Polarfluke finals vs BLY because there was more money involved.
Then its stupid and irresponsible if you ask me, but giving a walkover to play in another tournament is different from a forfeit because your just "too tired" - You signed up to them both knowing they will run for X amount of time together. Wouldnt you agree? Polt probably gave the forfeit (fuck i cba to google this word and its so hard to sound out and spell >.>) because he either wanted a shot at more money, "sure" money or something of the kind. (sure money in the sense he has a better shot at it etc, choosing one or the other would make u go with that one  )
Polts probably in the wrong for playing them both IF he knew their schedules for them both in advance of signing up, it doesnt really compare to stephano's as its a different situation.
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Maybe Stephano thought this tournament was so small no one would know? I went to bed after waiting for stephano to play vs illusion so I don't know about the surrounding circumstances, but I can't really see justifying Stephano getting away without being severely punished.
A korean would have been banned from his team and banned from most tournaments for at least a year for doing something like this. Overshadows all previous similar incidents.
EDIT: I ended up sounding overly dramatic, to clarify, I'm not suggesting that he should be banned from tourneys for a year, but neither should he go entirely unpunished.
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It is not reasonable or understandable because he knew or should have known the games might run late and he was himself responsible for some of the delay. He could have chosen to sleep longer and forgo streaming. These were not unexpected or abnormal conditions, but rather quite expected. It's like showing up for night shift and then complaining you didn't sleep adequately. Of course the situations differ in that he is not under a contract. I find it difficult to believe he was so tired he couldn't just grab an energy drink or a cup of coffee as it's very unlikely he spent the day doing something particularly exhausting.
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I don't get why people start drama any time there is a forfeit.
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Stephano is so arrogant. IMO it makes perfect sense what happened. He's a "professional" gamer, he can't just quit when he wants to and expect to get away with it. If my company tells me we need a project finished on saturday, I'm not going to give an ultimatum saying that I will do it on monday or not complete the project. I'm going to work on saturday, because I'm a professional.
If you don't take the game seriously, don't apply to tournaments.
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From a PR perspective, it's a poor handle of the situation from Stephano. Sunday could had gone down in history as when Stephano took down two titles in a day, but it didn't. The negative publicity washed out something that could been special. While we're picking winners and losers, it's important that everyone involved will work to make amends and find closure.
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On January 30 2012 17:49 Tobberoth wrote:
Stephano is so arrogant. IMO it makes perfect sense what happened. He's a "professional" gamer, he can't just quit when he wants to and expect to get away with it. If my company tells me we need a project finished on saturday, I'm not going to give an ultimatum saying that I will do it on monday or not complete the project.
If you are by and far your company's most valuable asset they cannot afford to lose, you most certainly can do that.
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On January 30 2012 17:51 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 17:49 Tobberoth wrote:
Stephano is so arrogant. IMO it makes perfect sense what happened. He's a "professional" gamer, he can't just quit when he wants to and expect to get away with it. If my company tells me we need a project finished on saturday, I'm not going to give an ultimatum saying that I will do it on monday or not complete the project.
If you are by and far your company's most valuable asset they cannot afford to lose, you most certainly can do that.
Sure, you can be an asshole if you're needed, doesn't make it cool. If I refused to fix a problem on a saturday, it could cost my company several millions of dollars. Just because I'm a bit tired? You won't stay valuable to a company if you have zero sense of professionalism.
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I've been a huge Stephano fan for long, but here I just think he was wrong, wrong and wrong again.
When you become a "pro" player, you earn some rights but also some obligations. One of them is to respect the community.
As others stated, Stephano was well aware of the schedule even before the tournament and should have adapted as Kas did - very professionally. Instead of that he acted like a spoiled child who is used to get whatever he asks and doesn't give a shit about others...
Very, very disrespectful and disappointing. As much as I like Stephano, I think we shouldn't have gotten a cent from this tournament (the eating delay was in itself a lack of respect also, but I will forget it).
This reminds us that as good as a player is, he might still be a child elsewhere.
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On January 30 2012 16:42 Capped wrote:
Stephano has always been like this, unprofessional and bad mannered, he's a child without much maturity. Look at the way he played two teams off against eachother, signed a contract and then went "well, i dont give a fuck, they offered me more money, cya!"
He's a joke to the SC2 scene and needs to leave if you ask me, this is just proving that fact even more.
Your an idiot if you sign up to two events knowing you wont get a break imbetween, going AWOL then coming back and saying "fuck your tournament, laters" (basically what he did.) You really think thats acceptable? In a tournament with 3k prizemoney?
$3k is alot of money to just throw around willy-nilly and no-one should be messing about or trying to screw a tournament over like he did.
What a load of crap. Stephano has allways been professional and never bad mannered he is however a huge troll.
You and you post are a joke to the sc2 scene.
Stephano has played hundreds of tournament and there has never been an incident with him before
The hate Stephano gets is so funny. He beats everyone and some people cant take it so instead of attacking his skills like they did in the past they have to attack his charecter
Stay classy..
The TL forum bloddy discusting sometimes.
Anyway keep hating bro Stephano still gonna win most things he enters and im sure it will piss you off even more
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Guess Stephano just needs to plan his time tables a little bit more if he thinks he can't handle two back to back tournaments in a row.
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On January 30 2012 18:08 HappyChris wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 16:42 Capped wrote:
Stephano has always been like this, unprofessional and bad mannered, he's a child without much maturity. Look at the way he played two teams off against eachother, signed a contract and then went "well, i dont give a fuck, they offered me more money, cya!"
He's a joke to the SC2 scene and needs to leave if you ask me, this is just proving that fact even more.
Your an idiot if you sign up to two events knowing you wont get a break imbetween, going AWOL then coming back and saying "fuck your tournament, laters" (basically what he did.) You really think thats acceptable? In a tournament with 3k prizemoney?
$3k is alot of money to just throw around willy-nilly and no-one should be messing about or trying to screw a tournament over like he did. What a load of crap. Stephano has allways been professional and never bad mannered he is however a huge troll. You and you post are a joke to the sc2 scene. The hate Stephano gets is so funny. He beats everyone and some people cant take it so instead of attacking his skills like they did in the past they have to attack his charecter Stay classy.. The TL forum bloddy discusting sometimes. Anyway keep hating bro Stephano still gonna win most things he enters and im sure it will piss you off even more
You must admit, ruining a tournament like that is pretty unprofessional. How would you feel if you were one of these event organisiers?
Stuff like this puts off organisations from doing future events. Not saying it will happen in this instance, but it's definitely not producing anything positive
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
fk that shit, sleep is sacred yo
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I think Stephano fully deserves the right to forfeit. In any individual sports, you are allowed to forfeit at any time if you feel you are physically incapable. Happens all the time in all sports ( tennis,golf,badminton,table tennis,etc). And I think no one will doubt that he really felt tired after such a gruelling day and couldn't take it anymore when he decided to sleep. It's not as if he lied about being tired to screw the organizers. The man was genuinely tired and sleepy and felt like he wouldn't be able to focus through another match. Just like an athlete is genuinely injured and would be unable to complete a match.
It's just the manner in which Stephano told the organizers might be a little crude and disrespectful. But that's not what many are attacking him for.
ONOG came out with a reasonable solution ( i think Stephano should still get the 2nd place money though because he forfeited the final and thus should come second) but ONOG's decision is somewhat understandable.
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On January 30 2012 16:11 darkscream wrote:
So many people getting their panties in a knot. Yeah, it sucks for the tournament but what are you going to do? The man knew he wouldn't play very well. If he pulled a Naniwa would people be happy? What if he did some roach/ling all-in halfheartedly?
The only thing you could call him out on is not waiting another two minutes to discuss the fact that he wanted to forfeit, which is a trivial matter of social etiquette and nothing else - everyone else would have still had to deal with the fact that he quit in the same way.
The fact is, we have no idea anything about Stephano's health, perspective, or standard sleep schedule. If he was too tired to play, he was too tired to play.
If you could force him to play the games, you would end up with shit games.
If you let him forfeit, you end up with an awkward hole in the scheduling.
I feel sorry for the internet which demands 100% from players 100% of the time as if they aren't human. He forfeit, it's not a big deal... but instead there's a thousand-post reddit about it and no doubt he will have to deal with some shit in the morning.
It's really too bad the community has to break out the pitchforks and fire any time anyone does ANYTHING.
The thing is though, he knew the TIME SCHEDULE BEFORE HE WAS INVITED and still ACCEPTED it. Considering these circumstances it's completely unacceptable for him to do what he did. You look at the schedule and go "well I'm probably going to be really tired playing two tournaments at the same time throughout the whole day/night so I probably shouldn't accept my invite for THIS one".
It's just bad planning/foresight from the player to not well, plan ahead or consider the surrounding factors such as fatigue/tiredness etc. And to then after that go "well I'm too tired, and if I can't play tomorrow then fuck it" is very rude.
We're not bringing out the pitchforks for no reason here, it might be that for the majority of the cases it might seem unreasonable but not in this case.
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On January 30 2012 17:06 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 16:54 Bayyne wrote:On January 30 2012 16:42 mTw|NarutO wrote:
The right decision in my opinion would have been to postpone the finals to another day. That way the fans got robbed a Stephano vs Kas bo5 and got a match with Kas and an inferior player neither the outcome of the 2nd or 3rd place match.
No offence to CatZ or Illusion, they are both good players and its no shame to be worse than Kas. I can understand the decision, but I don't think it was correct. I couldn't care less about Kas vs someone not up to par wit him :x
Edit: if its correct that he stated he didn't want for the 3rd place match to be finished, they could have played the final and cast it from replays. I don't know if he would have agreed on that.
Edit2: I don't think the player owes the fans entertainment. If Stephano feels like he cannot play his best or cannot deliver against Kas because he's too tired I do think his decision to forfeit was nothing but the right choice. If he owes anything to the fans its to show his best performance or at least try to bring his A-game in a final of such a tournament. What then does he owe to the tournament who has already made accommodations for him earlier in the day, which very lenient accommodations I might add? I agree with you that a player doesn't OWE fans entertainment. But I expect a player to play out any match they signed up for, especially when this isn't your first rodeo as a player. Yeah the fans arguably did get robbed of a higher level finals, but I have Stephano to thank for that. He doesn't owe the tournament anything. It was their decision to invite him. He did play it to the point where he decided he cannot play anymore. Next time they probably won't invite him. He didn't drop a single map in the SCAN invite and did also play the semifinals at the ONOG. I agree the way he did forfeit wasn't very professional but it was a to me reasonable decision. I don't could or should blame ONOG for the decision they made, but that doesn't mean I agree with it. They offered to play the finals and cast it from replays and he didn't accept that - tough luck and not very clever if you ask me, but if you have no contract with the players that can force them to play (i.e $ penalty if they quit for whatever reason) thats just how it goes.
I agree with NarutO on this one.
Players always have the right to forfeit a game if they aren't able to play for whatever reason. It's like in any other sport. They aren't our personal clowns that have to jump when we demand it. Of course I want to see good games and of course I am disappointed when a player forfeits a game (be it a probe rush, premature rage quit or simply not playing at all), but I don't believe that the player OWES me in any way.
There's of course always the question about how something like that goes down, and in this case how it went down was awful. I would have loved to see Stephano win two tournaments in one night, so I was really disappointed when I heard he decided not to play the finals.
However, what disappointed me more than being "robbed" of a Kas-Stephano finals was the way Stephano handled the situation. Behaving like a diva and not showing much concern about organizers and fans does come across somewhat unprofessional, yes. It also made a bad situation turn to worse, because by the way this played out it did not seem to be just a simple forfeit any more. Had Stephano handled this a little more intelligently, the drama would have been only half as bad.
But I don't think it gives me the right to start a flamefest and insult the player or demand all kinds of ridiculous punishment. I'm not a very emotional person, so maybe that's the reason I don't understand the amount of drama things like this always cause. I just think the general overreaction by the community isn't helping this kind of situation at all.
I think the organizers handled the situation okay given the circumstances, and I can accept their decision as a compromise, but I personally would have preferred to see a Stephano-Kas final at another day when both of them have had some sleep.
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On January 30 2012 18:44 Tenox wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 16:11 darkscream wrote:
So many people getting their panties in a knot. Yeah, it sucks for the tournament but what are you going to do? The man knew he wouldn't play very well. If he pulled a Naniwa would people be happy? What if he did some roach/ling all-in halfheartedly?
The only thing you could call him out on is not waiting another two minutes to discuss the fact that he wanted to forfeit, which is a trivial matter of social etiquette and nothing else - everyone else would have still had to deal with the fact that he quit in the same way.
The fact is, we have no idea anything about Stephano's health, perspective, or standard sleep schedule. If he was too tired to play, he was too tired to play.
If you could force him to play the games, you would end up with shit games.
If you let him forfeit, you end up with an awkward hole in the scheduling.
I feel sorry for the internet which demands 100% from players 100% of the time as if they aren't human. He forfeit, it's not a big deal... but instead there's a thousand-post reddit about it and no doubt he will have to deal with some shit in the morning.
It's really too bad the community has to break out the pitchforks and fire any time anyone does ANYTHING. The thing is though, he knew the TIME SCHEDULE BEFORE HE WAS INVITED and still ACCEPTED it. Considering these circumstances it's completely unacceptable for him to do what he did. You look at the schedule and go "well I'm probably going to be really tired playing two tournaments at the same time throughout the whole day/night so I probably shouldn't accept my invite for THIS one". It's just bad planning/foresight from the player to not well, plan ahead or consider the surrounding factors such as fatigue/tiredness etc. And to then after that go "well I'm too tired, and if I can't play tomorrow then fuck it" is very rude. We're not bringing out the pitchforks for no reason here, it might be that for the majority of the cases it might seem unreasonable but not in this case.
How does knowing the schedule affects anything though? Almost anyone who forfeits a tournament knows the schedule before hand. It's just that unexpectedly or out of poor planning he is too tired to continue. Maybe because he was too drained from the previous matches, maybe something else.
Same with a competitor in any other field who forfeits. He knows the schedule before hand as well no? It is then because something happens unexpectedly or due to poor planning he has to forfeit. Let's say a tennis player get injured and has to forfeit a match. Not as if he didn't know when he was supposed to play. Maybe he is injured ( unfit to play) because he overexerted himself during training. Maybe it's a freak accident. Maybe his previous match has taken its toll on him because it was harder than expected. If you think tennis ( a sport) and Starcraft ( e-sport) is not comparable then replace Tennis with Chess. Same arguments apply.
Same thing with Stephano's case. He was tired (unfit to play) and therefore has the right to forfeit just like every other individual competitor.. The case with schedule is absolutely the same here.We can fail him for his poor planning but this is the same case as majority of other cases and not an anomaly as you mentioned.
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Switzerland2892 Posts
On January 30 2012 18:08 HappyChris wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 16:42 Capped wrote:
Stephano has always been like this, unprofessional and bad mannered, he's a child without much maturity. Look at the way he played two teams off against eachother, signed a contract and then went "well, i dont give a fuck, they offered me more money, cya!"
He's a joke to the SC2 scene and needs to leave if you ask me, this is just proving that fact even more.
Your an idiot if you sign up to two events knowing you wont get a break imbetween, going AWOL then coming back and saying "fuck your tournament, laters" (basically what he did.) You really think thats acceptable? In a tournament with 3k prizemoney?
$3k is alot of money to just throw around willy-nilly and no-one should be messing about or trying to screw a tournament over like he did. Stephano has played hundreds of tournament and there has never been an incident with him before
There were already incidents at assembly summer 2011 and dh winter 2011
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TL sure love drama
Edit:
Nothing wrong with what stephano did, and the organizer did what is best for their tournament. I don't see anything wrong with this, except the way stephano act like an asshole to ONOG.
Seriously people, chill out.
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On January 30 2012 18:44 Tenox wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 16:11 darkscream wrote:
So many people getting their panties in a knot. Yeah, it sucks for the tournament but what are you going to do? The man knew he wouldn't play very well. If he pulled a Naniwa would people be happy? What if he did some roach/ling all-in halfheartedly?
The only thing you could call him out on is not waiting another two minutes to discuss the fact that he wanted to forfeit, which is a trivial matter of social etiquette and nothing else - everyone else would have still had to deal with the fact that he quit in the same way.
The fact is, we have no idea anything about Stephano's health, perspective, or standard sleep schedule. If he was too tired to play, he was too tired to play.
If you could force him to play the games, you would end up with shit games.
If you let him forfeit, you end up with an awkward hole in the scheduling.
I feel sorry for the internet which demands 100% from players 100% of the time as if they aren't human. He forfeit, it's not a big deal... but instead there's a thousand-post reddit about it and no doubt he will have to deal with some shit in the morning.
It's really too bad the community has to break out the pitchforks and fire any time anyone does ANYTHING. The thing is though, he knew the TIME SCHEDULE BEFORE HE WAS INVITED and still ACCEPTED it. Considering these circumstances it's completely unacceptable for him to do what he did. You look at the schedule and go "well I'm probably going to be really tired playing two tournaments at the same time throughout the whole day/night so I probably shouldn't accept my invite for THIS one". It's just bad planning/foresight from the player to not well, plan ahead or consider the surrounding factors such as fatigue/tiredness etc. And to then after that go "well I'm too tired, and if I can't play tomorrow then fuck it" is very rude. We're not bringing out the pitchforks for no reason here, it might be that for the majority of the cases it might seem unreasonable but not in this case.
So the guy is physically incapable of playing on and you think he shouldn't be allowed to forfeit? The fuck? Sometimes you don't know what your condition will be like ahead of time or how long things will last. This went on till 2 am for a european tournament. Let's say MVP's CTS started acting up and he forfeited. I guess that's unacceptable because he knew of his condition beforehand but never dealt with it.
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On January 30 2012 18:59 pPingu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 18:08 HappyChris wrote:On January 30 2012 16:42 Capped wrote:
Stephano has always been like this, unprofessional and bad mannered, he's a child without much maturity. Look at the way he played two teams off against eachother, signed a contract and then went "well, i dont give a fuck, they offered me more money, cya!"
He's a joke to the SC2 scene and needs to leave if you ask me, this is just proving that fact even more.
Your an idiot if you sign up to two events knowing you wont get a break imbetween, going AWOL then coming back and saying "fuck your tournament, laters" (basically what he did.) You really think thats acceptable? In a tournament with 3k prizemoney?
$3k is alot of money to just throw around willy-nilly and no-one should be messing about or trying to screw a tournament over like he did. Stephano has played hundreds of tournament and there has never been an incident with him before There were already incidents at assembly summer 2011 and dh winter 2011
this + his team switching drama. Chris your just an arrogant fanboy.
For starters i never once mentioned his skill or tournament results, yet im a hater who cries because all he does it crush everyone. Well, he doesnt crush everyone thats why he's not won every major / minor tournament he enters, not participating in code S and winning it either. If you want to get pissy about his results etc.
But we are NOT talking about his results, just his professionalism and manner.
If you sign up to 2 tournaments knowing the timescale of both of them, you should fuckin' play it out - Its as simple as that. The tournament was not delayed for any reason other then him, which is rude as it is. Then he turns round and says he's tired, gives no option to the tournament and goes offline, asshole move and very bad way to forfeit even if your going to.
The blogs going downhill now with the "TL loves drama omgomg" fools and the fanboys running in and shouting EVERYTHING STEPHANO DOES IS AWESOME THE SUN SHINES OUT HIS ASSCRACK!
I dont like naruto but at least the things he said were decent and constructive -_-
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1: What Stephano did wasn't exactly "nice" but he had the right to do it so well... I don't know how he felt/what was wrong, i don't care.. It wasn't the "neat" thing to do but he has no oblgation to be nice.....
2: While not a real fault of the tournamnet, having a final at that time is "questionable" no matter how you look at it. It's late for the viewers, it's late for the players... Just play the next day?
3. Imho a torunament that is scared of things like this shouldn't allow players to compete at multiple tourneys at once. Yes, you might lose a player but the ones you have are 100% there for "you".
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To sum up what I do think about the incident:
- Stephano did forfeit and that in itself is perfectly fine
- the way he did forfeit and just leaving after the notice is unprofessional
- the decision the organizers made is reasonable, but I don't agree with it. In my opinion they made a mistake because:
- Stephano did gain 2nd place, as he qualified for the final and you cannot rob him his prize money, just because you disagree with his decision. Punishment should be made after the tournament (no invite for the next tournament, etc)
- the community is being ridiculous if they really think a player owes someone something. A player doesn't owe a thing to the community nor the casters, even if you don't like it.
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Switzerland2892 Posts
On January 30 2012 19:18 mTw|NarutO wrote:
- the decision the organizers made is reasonable, but I don't agree with it. In my opinion they made a mistake because:
- Stephano did gain 2nd place, as he qualified for the final and you cannot rob him his prize money, just because you disagree with his decision. Punishment should be made after the tournament (no invite for the next tournament, etc)
I think this decision was made because they had to wait him 40min, hoping to have a good final. It was a bit unfair for illusion, pretty sure he would have been disqualified if he did it.
edit: didn't see it before but illusion had the same opinion
vileIllusion Chris Lee
wait 45 mins no DQ, if I was late 15 minutes I would be instant DQ no? where is the consistency ;;
And it would have been pretty shitty to end the tournament with no final.
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Are the people defending him serious? No professional, in any sports field, forfeits a final because they're fucking tired. Tennis players will play badly through great pain until they concede that they have to give up. Players in team sports will keep going until their coach pulls them off. I don't think a single person has quoted a situation where a top professional in a particular field bows out because they're tired.
All his actions throughout his 'career' indicate that he shouldn't be called a 'progamer'. He began his career by reneging on a contract after his old team makes a better offer, with only a relatively minor fine thanks to French law. He threw games that actually affected group standings in a major tournament - an act worse than Naniwa's for tournament integrity, but it wasn't broadcasted.
In order to get a final match, and all of the potential exposure that brings, reshuffling the standings makes sense. When considering professionalism and the integrity of the tournament, however, it is totally unacceptable. You can be damned sure that a professional entity like the IPL would do whatever it takes to get a legitimate final played out, and that a separate penalty would be applied to Stephano.
In the end all involved look amateur. This is just the competitive environment of Starcraft 2 right now - without an organised body like KeSPA to oversee and resolve disputes, the players tend to be more like prize-fighters, and the tournaments of little meaning to them.
Makes me wish we could just get a few major leagues set-up, with events like ONOG falling under them (like MLG's setup). Seems so much more stable.
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Not fair to the viewers, but for everyone else it wasn't a big deal. Shouldn't have just logged off like that though, rather rude.
Talented player, nonetheless.
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What I do think of the situation is:
- Stephano is in his fully right to forfeit a match without being disqualified from previous won games. He should have earned his prize. He just couldn't play anymore.
- The way he managed to do that was awful, disrepectful towards the organisers and the fans.
- Tumba should not cast a sc2 game anymore: beside the fact that he is not that good, he made an awkward comment, which was supposed to be funny, about history. Whatever the discussions you're gonna see in a community forum, a commentator shouldn't be allowed to say that.
- Stephano is a big troll
- For a man who wants to become a doctor, stephano is not acting professionally. When you're on call for 24 hours, you just can't refuse to take care of a patient just because you're tired since it's your job. Atm, sc2 is stephano's job so his moral should have told him to play the games.
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In my opinion Illusion was mad about waiting because he knew he has no chance vs Stephano... ;;. If they decided to start with CatZ vs Kas he would have to wait anyways.
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@ The guys responding to my previous post about knowing the schedual. I just basically don't think tiredness is an acceptable enough reason even if it was chess. Sure if you can work something out such as taking it the other day or let the player take a break and can compromise then sure that's cool.
But if not I think it shouldn't be the tournaments fault unless there was a unanimous agreement that there was a terrible schedual.
It's fucking obviously going to be tiring to play a tournament and you probably will be pretty tired by the end of a one day tournament but that's what you should EXPECT so when that tiredness then comes raining down on you don't go quitting because of it. If you choose to play two simultaneous tournaments then that's your problem in participating in both of em in the first place if you couldn't take it. One should be capable of knowing his own boundaries. And if one isn't then giving it a shot on a bigger scale then really long practice sessions to see where you're at tenacity-wise is either silly or you just didn't consider this factor at all. If you didn't consider this factor then that is a mistake you won't be taking again the next time and now you learned something from it.
This is something I genuinely feel is not something that seems weird that players should know. Because it's a pretty big factor that can come into play when playing competetively. Also obviously emergencies such as CTS acting up or something extreme other than that is a whole different thing.
Some double morality is going to come out of this post but I'll try to make it understandable.
No the player doesn't OWE the viewer anything specifically but I think that the player OWES the tournament to finish it. Yes this problem occurred because of no regulation, which sucks and I really don't think it should have to come that far either but obviously it does.
Might be me being naive or whatever but basically you join a tournament you finish your job, because you're a nice guy right? I mean these guys had been saving up cash for months, a lot of tournaments do. And they have so much preparation and work behind them even if they aren't particularly large scale. And if they then want to invite you as a player then you should be able to be considerate enough to actually consider the work that goes behind setting up a tournament.
Therefore if you go through with accepting an invite you should not see it as a "privilege" but you definitely bear a certain responsibility just through sheer "considerateness"(not sure if that is a word but hopefully the point comes across) to actually finish the tournament. Because if you don't that's basically shitting on all the work and effort they put into making that tournament. And how is that being nice in any way shape or form possible.
If you are participating in something where people put in that much effort. Doesn't even have to be a lot of effort just some form of effort to get something nice together for the community(because come on that's what it all comes down to right? making it nice for the viewers, obviously the money aspect is nice but doing it for community/viewers is all that matters to me at least and I think it SHOULD for anyone involved in this) then I think you should appreciate that and not quit halfway through.
Obviously for emergency reasons that can't be avoided, you're obviously going to have to leave the tournament and that's understandable but for something such as tiredness I just can't buy it.
Basically what I think it comes down to is I believe people should be able to trust the good will of another person to actually not shit on all the effort people put in on making a tournament possible and just peace out for some terrible reason.
So therefore, yes because you obviously can't do that then we need regulation. So that players actually can't do stuff like this. A little side tangent is that people aren't doing this to this extent in bigger tournaments because the prize money is so huge they wouldn't want to waste a chance on it, but on smaller tournaments it doesn't matter as much. So players can take that risk which I think is faulty thinking.
Might be me being very melodramatic or just taking way too much stuff into consideration but I'd really not like to think I am. And yes it is pretty naive to be thinking that every person/player thinks this way but it sucks so much that I can't.
tl;dr Basically what I think it comes down to is I believe people should be able to trust the good will of another person to actually not shit on all the effort people put in on making a tournament possible and just peace out for some terrible reason. And because you can't, we need regulation.
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On January 30 2012 19:46 mTw|NarutO wrote:
In my opinion Illusion was mad about waiting because he knew he has no chance vs Stephano... ;;. If they decided to start with CatZ vs Kas he would have to wait anyways.
??? Where are you pulling that from?
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On January 30 2012 19:49 Bayyne wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 19:46 mTw|NarutO wrote:
In my opinion Illusion was mad about waiting because he knew he has no chance vs Stephano... ;;. If they decided to start with CatZ vs Kas he would have to wait anyways. ??? Where are you pulling that from?
'In my opinion'. Stephano is superior to Illusion - do you want to argue? I guess Illusion would agree. Also he lost 1-3 which is not a terrible rape, but very clear. Do you want clear evidence that Stephano is the better player? There is not. You can compare the achievements , but thats no proof either.
Its just my opinion.
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No. I'm asking how did you come up with illusion being mad BECAUSE Stephano is better than him. Maybe he was told by admins his match would start at 5, and that he waited 45minutes?
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On January 30 2012 19:31 Jehct wrote:
Are the people defending him serious? No professional, in any sports field, forfeits a final because they're fucking tired. Tennis players will play badly through great pain until they concede that they have to give up. Players in team sports will keep going until their coach pulls them off. I don't think a single person has quoted a situation where a top professional in a particular field bows out because they're tired.
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Thats not true.
At a Grand Slam.. Yes, they will even risk their health for the potential of winning it.
At a "small" tournament? Iirc Murray, Djokovic and iirc Nadal forfaited games in 2011 because of "minor" problems. I know you can't compare this even closely because ruining your health is unlikely from that 1 more series of SC2. But even the best Tennis players sometimes forfait matches.
I mean, there is obviously a diffrence in effort from Sampras womitting on the court during a grand slam final and Djoko or whoever it was forfaiting a match at some tourney due to having some back pain  .
All his actions throughout his 'career' indicate that he shouldn't be called a 'progamer'. He began his career by reneging on a contract after his old team makes a better offer, with only a relatively minor fine thanks to French law. He threw games that actually affected group standings in a major tournament - an act worse than Naniwa's for tournament integrity, but it wasn't broadcasted.
1: Yes, he did some "questionable" things... But as long as the teams put up with it... Well... Their fault.
"Thanks to french law"... Well, the law in France is the law in France and i'm sure it's in place for a reason and many people seem to agree with it...
2: It being broadcasted or not is a pretty big factor... But yes, also a bad move. But as long as tournament organizers and others put up with this... Well... Their fault.
In order to get a final match, and all of the potential exposure that brings, reshuffling the standings makes sense. When considering professionalism and the integrity of the tournament, however, it is totally unacceptable. You can be damned sure that a professional entity like the IPL would do whatever it takes to get a legitimate final played out, and that a separate penalty would be applied to Stephano.
In the end all involved look amateur. This is just the competitive environment of Starcraft 2 right now - without an organised body like KeSPA to oversee and resolve disputes, the players tend to be more like prize-fighters, and the tournaments of little meaning to them.
Makes me wish we could just get a few major leagues set-up, with events like ONOG falling under them (like MLG's setup). Seems so much more stable[/quote]
Fully agree... There are maybe a hand full Teams/Organisers that are really professional... Most players ARE price fighters.. And they behave as such, why shouldn’t they? Except the GSL no one is really punishing them for acting unprofessional.
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On January 30 2012 19:53 Bayyne wrote:
No. I'm asking how did you come up with illusion being mad BECAUSE Stephano is better than him. Maybe he was told by admins his match would start at 5, and that he waited 45minutes?
Because everything Naruto says is clouded by his appreciation for Stephano as a player. This applies to most posters as no one is completely impartial, but statements such as that just highlight the fact.
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On January 30 2012 19:53 Bayyne wrote:
No. I'm asking how did you come up with illusion being mad BECAUSE Stephano is better than him. Maybe he was told by admins his match would start at 5, and that he waited 45minutes?
Assumption? Usually players are very insightful on delays... because they know it can happen;;
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On January 30 2012 20:00 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 19:53 Bayyne wrote:
No. I'm asking how did you come up with illusion being mad BECAUSE Stephano is better than him. Maybe he was told by admins his match would start at 5, and that he waited 45minutes? Because everything Naruto says is clouded by his appreciation for Stephano as a player. This applies to most posters as no one is completely impartial, but statements such as that just highlight the fact.
? I am Terran. He is Zerg. I think he's a good player and better than Illusion. Its an assumption / my opinion and I have every right in the world to state it, whats wrong with that?
I'd say the same about a player of equal skill I don't like at all so its not "appreciation" / fanboyism for Stephano. I guess a fanboy would not have said Stephano should be punished (after the tournament) or the way he acted was very unprofessional , right?---
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France12761 Posts
What did they expect? They should not invite european players if they want to play that late, Stephano handled that ratyer poorly the way he did this, but it's acceptable that he doesn't want to play at 4am
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On January 30 2012 20:03 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 20:00 syllogism wrote:On January 30 2012 19:53 Bayyne wrote:
No. I'm asking how did you come up with illusion being mad BECAUSE Stephano is better than him. Maybe he was told by admins his match would start at 5, and that he waited 45minutes? Because everything Naruto says is clouded by his appreciation for Stephano as a player. This applies to most posters as no one is completely impartial, but statements such as that just highlight the fact. ? I am Terran. He is Zerg. I think he's a good player and better than Illusion. Its an assumption / my opinion and I have every right in the world to state it, whats wrong with that? I'd say the same about a player of equal skill I don't like at all so its not "appreciation" / fanboyism for Stephano.
It's a completely nonsensical assumption. Stephano delayed the tournament because he wanted to eat. That took him 45 minutes. It is also a fact that tournaments have frequently disqualified players for not showing up within a small time frame and 45 minutes certainly is not small nor is "I have to eat" acceptable in most situations. Would it have been fine for every player to take a 45 minute break? The reasonable assumption is that he was annoyed because there was a delay, which usually wouldn't be acceptable. That's it.
Nothing wrong with stating your opinion, but from your posting and even merely from that statement you've made it quite clear you are biased on the subject.
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On January 30 2012 20:07 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 20:03 mTw|NarutO wrote:On January 30 2012 20:00 syllogism wrote:On January 30 2012 19:53 Bayyne wrote:
No. I'm asking how did you come up with illusion being mad BECAUSE Stephano is better than him. Maybe he was told by admins his match would start at 5, and that he waited 45minutes? Because everything Naruto says is clouded by his appreciation for Stephano as a player. This applies to most posters as no one is completely impartial, but statements such as that just highlight the fact. ? I am Terran. He is Zerg. I think he's a good player and better than Illusion. Its an assumption / my opinion and I have every right in the world to state it, whats wrong with that? I'd say the same about a player of equal skill I don't like at all so its not "appreciation" / fanboyism for Stephano. It's a completely nonsensical assumption. Stephano delayed the tournament because he wanted to eat. That took him 45 minutes. It is also a fact that tournaments have frequently disqualified players for not showing up within a small time frame and 45 minutes certainly is not small nor is "I have to eat" acceptable in most situations. The reasonable assumption is that he was annoyed because there was a delay, which usually wouldn't be acceptable. That's it. Nothing wrong with stating your opinion, but from your posting and even merely from that statement you've made it quite clear you are biased on the subject.
How am I biased, because I think the reason he was annoyed is another? Players have been qualified for being late. Stephano did ask for the break and the admin did agree to that. The tournament was delayed, because they didn't start of with the other semi final right when the knew Stephano does need a break.
I guess I just take my point if view. If I think I will face a very good player and I will most likely lose, I don't want to wait. But I have a lot of respect of Illusion for not trying to get a free win easily, or at least I hope thats the case.
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On January 30 2012 20:09 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 20:07 syllogism wrote:On January 30 2012 20:03 mTw|NarutO wrote:On January 30 2012 20:00 syllogism wrote:On January 30 2012 19:53 Bayyne wrote:
No. I'm asking how did you come up with illusion being mad BECAUSE Stephano is better than him. Maybe he was told by admins his match would start at 5, and that he waited 45minutes? Because everything Naruto says is clouded by his appreciation for Stephano as a player. This applies to most posters as no one is completely impartial, but statements such as that just highlight the fact. ? I am Terran. He is Zerg. I think he's a good player and better than Illusion. Its an assumption / my opinion and I have every right in the world to state it, whats wrong with that? I'd say the same about a player of equal skill I don't like at all so its not "appreciation" / fanboyism for Stephano. It's a completely nonsensical assumption. Stephano delayed the tournament because he wanted to eat. That took him 45 minutes. It is also a fact that tournaments have frequently disqualified players for not showing up within a small time frame and 45 minutes certainly is not small nor is "I have to eat" acceptable in most situations. The reasonable assumption is that he was annoyed because there was a delay, which usually wouldn't be acceptable. That's it. Nothing wrong with stating your opinion, but from your posting and even merely from that statement you've made it quite clear you are biased on the subject. How am I biased, because I think the reason he was annoyed is another? Players have been qualified for being late. Stephano did ask for the break and the admin did agree to that. The tournament was delayed, because they didn't start of with the other semi final right when the knew Stephano does need a break. I guess I just take my point if view. If I think I will face a very good player and I will most likely lose, I don't want to wait. But I have a lot of respect of Illusion for not trying to get a free win easily, or at least I hope thats the case.
Fine, I don't really care to argue whether you are biased or not and certainly you are the one who should know that best. However, I do not think it is a fair assumption that he was only annoyed because the mighty Stephano was going to kick his ass. I would even say it's quite rude.
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On January 30 2012 20:15 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 20:09 mTw|NarutO wrote:On January 30 2012 20:07 syllogism wrote:On January 30 2012 20:03 mTw|NarutO wrote:On January 30 2012 20:00 syllogism wrote:On January 30 2012 19:53 Bayyne wrote:
No. I'm asking how did you come up with illusion being mad BECAUSE Stephano is better than him. Maybe he was told by admins his match would start at 5, and that he waited 45minutes? Because everything Naruto says is clouded by his appreciation for Stephano as a player. This applies to most posters as no one is completely impartial, but statements such as that just highlight the fact. ? I am Terran. He is Zerg. I think he's a good player and better than Illusion. Its an assumption / my opinion and I have every right in the world to state it, whats wrong with that? I'd say the same about a player of equal skill I don't like at all so its not "appreciation" / fanboyism for Stephano. It's a completely nonsensical assumption. Stephano delayed the tournament because he wanted to eat. That took him 45 minutes. It is also a fact that tournaments have frequently disqualified players for not showing up within a small time frame and 45 minutes certainly is not small nor is "I have to eat" acceptable in most situations. The reasonable assumption is that he was annoyed because there was a delay, which usually wouldn't be acceptable. That's it. Nothing wrong with stating your opinion, but from your posting and even merely from that statement you've made it quite clear you are biased on the subject. How am I biased, because I think the reason he was annoyed is another? Players have been qualified for being late. Stephano did ask for the break and the admin did agree to that. The tournament was delayed, because they didn't start of with the other semi final right when the knew Stephano does need a break. I guess I just take my point if view. If I think I will face a very good player and I will most likely lose, I don't want to wait. But I have a lot of respect of Illusion for not trying to get a free win easily, or at least I hope thats the case. Fine, I don't really care to argue whether you are biased or not and certainly you are the one who should know that best. However, I do not think it is a fair assumption that he was only annoyed because the mighty Stephano was going to kick his ass. I would even say it's quite rude.
My thoughts exactly. You skipped the reasonable assumption, which would have been "illusion is mad because he wouldn't have gotten the same treatment" and went straight to "he's mad cuz he knows he's going to lose".
Either way, good night!
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So the assumption of Illusion that he wouldn't have gotten the same treatment is not rude? Anyways, thats not the topic to discuss here. Sleep well.
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Huh.. whats this argument about Illusion waiting. You guys knew that the only reason Stephano disappeared for such a long time was because he was given a green light when he asked for one right? It wasn't because it was Stephano. It was because ONOG approved of him taking a break that he can't be disqualified.
So basically he asked the organizer " hey can i get a meal break?" Organizer replied "sure". So off he went.
Hey everyone, I'm the President of ONOG. I just wanted to clear up the air regarding Stephano's and Illusion's match.
The problem is not with Stephano but with us. After SCAN finished, Stephano asked if he could take a break and get some food. We told him he could. This caused him to late. Since One Nation of Gamers gave Stephano the green light, we couldn't -in fairness- disqualify him.
We shouldn't have told Stephano it was alright without, at least, asking vileIllusion's permission.
We apologize to vileIllusion, Team Vile and to the community. We will try to do better in our second Invitational.
Best,
Deric Ortiz
President of One Nation of Gamers
For the guys saying a regulation is needed, what kind of regulation will solve this problem? All professional competitions are heavily regulated and people forfeit all the time when they think they are unfit to play. There won't be a regulation saying " You have to finish a tournament no matter what" Even someone as fiercely competitive as Tiger Woods withdrew from a tournament. Anyone from Grand Slam winners to your regular low-ranked tennis players forfeits all the time.
Also, don't blame Stephano for signing up for both. A lot of people probably signed up for both. Stephano is just "unfortunate" that he lasted really far in both tournaments and was totally drained as a result. Still, he has his right to forfeit.
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On January 30 2012 20:21 mTw|NarutO wrote:
So the assumption of Illusion that he wouldn't have gotten the same treatment is not rude? Anyways, thats not the topic to discuss here. Sleep well.
It's based on nothing more than rude.
No one knows what would have happened, so lets don't assume things and make a new drama out of nothing.
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How about: both sides did their best in the situation? Nobody can prove exactly how tired Stephano was, that's a physical condition that can strike suddenly and not always is possible to control. For all you know, he could have fallen asleep on the keyboard when he disconnected. Should he be penalized for that?
Everybody throwing rocks at him for playing in two tournaments - how about the fact that he tries to deliver as much entertainment for esports fans as physically possible, and beyond?
Meanwhile the way the tournament handled the situation is perfectly fair, as long as no further penalty is delivered. They had a schedule and couldn't move for just one player, obviously. Stephano takes some financial loss from being dropped to 4th place, that's fine, he can't expect full reward after leaving accidentally due to being tired. I see no reason for drama now.
I would appreciate a showmatch Stephano vs Kas though, that's just interesting to see anytime.
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My reaction upon reading this is the same as Kenigits.
Tournament hosts should seriously consider banning him.
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I see a lot of people comparing this forfeit to traditional sports, but I've never heard of someone forfeiting from one turnament because he/she tired from having another turnament the same day (in traditional sports).
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Stephano has stated multiple times that he's just trying to make as much money off Starcraft II as possible before going to university. Given this information, his behavior doesn't exactly surprise me. When someone pretty much says that they don't care about the competition itself as long as the cash rolls in, they probably don't feel too much of an obligation to please the fans or tournament organizers.
While I do think it's commendable to state one's goal so bluntly, the resulting attitude towards inconvenience caused by late or hour-long matches is something that will inevitably make him clash with tournament schedules.
I'm not accusing Stephano of being a money grubber, I'm just saying that he can afford to do what he did yesterday, because if one day all tournaments refrain from inviting him to future events, he can just go back to doing what he would do anyway in a few months.
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I don't like to attribute blame to players, these things happen sometimes, however I highly praise ONOG and the organisers/admins for taking the actions they did. Really good solution and thanks also to the players who stepped up 
I think there are now two players organisers should never invite to play in inaugural tournaments
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On January 30 2012 21:34 Steveling wrote:
My reaction upon reading this is the same as Kenigits.
Tournament hosts should seriously consider banning him.
Why would you ban one of the best players in Europe.. he will get you so much viewers, it would only hurt the tournament to 'ban' him.
Edit: To the people saying Stephano will quit in September, he did say when he makes enough money or continues to make a lot of money, he will continue to play.
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On January 30 2012 21:58 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 21:34 Steveling wrote:
My reaction upon reading this is the same as Kenigits.
Tournament hosts should seriously consider banning him. Why would you ban one of the best players in Europe.. he will get you so much viewers, it would only hurt the tournament to 'ban' him. Edit: To the people saying Stephano will quit in September, he did say when he makes enough money or continues to make a lot of money, he will continue to play.
Ahm... If you never ever punish players just because they are good how will this ever get "better"?
I mean on one hand players are crying for better enviroments/professionalism and on the other side they play multiple tournaments at once (which leads to delays) and then forfait because theire tired?
Stephano broke no rule here, thats why they should not ban him, but not having rules aganist something like this is just the sign of a naive tournament organisation.
The problem is, a single tournament banning some wrong-doer won't do shit. If all tournament organisers would work together here things would change really, really quickly.
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On January 30 2012 20:00 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 19:31 Jehct wrote:
Are the people defending him serious? No professional, in any sports field, forfeits a final because they're fucking tired. Tennis players will play badly through great pain until they concede that they have to give up. Players in team sports will keep going until their coach pulls them off. I don't think a single person has quoted a situation where a top professional in a particular field bows out because they're tired.
. Thats not true. At a Grand Slam.. Yes, they will even risk their health for the potential of winning it. At a "small" tournament? Iirc Murray, Djokovic and iirc Nadal forfaited games in 2011 because of "minor" problems. I know you can't compare this even closely because ruining your health is unlikely from that 1 more series of SC2. But even the best Tennis players sometimes forfait matches. I mean, there is obviously a diffrence in effort from Sampras womitting on the court during a grand slam final and Djoko or whoever it was forfaiting a match at some tourney due to having some back pain .
I agree that there's a huge distinction between a Grand Slam and a minor tournament, or an MLG and the ONOG invitational, but there's also a huge difference between forfeitting a match because of pain or health issues, and forfeitting a final because you're tired. I just can't imagine any well-known tennis pro doing something like that, no matter how irrelevant the tourny is. I'd love to be proven wrong, since this incident totally adjusted my perspective on the foreign SC2 scene.
On January 30 2012 20:00 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +All his actions throughout his 'career' indicate that he shouldn't be called a 'progamer'. He began his career by reneging on a contract after his old team makes a better offer, with only a relatively minor fine thanks to French law. He threw games that actually affected group standings in a major tournament - an act worse than Naniwa's for tournament integrity, but it wasn't broadcasted. 1: Yes, he did some "questionable" things... But as long as the teams put up with it... Well... Their fault. "Thanks to french law"... Well, the law in France is the law in France and i'm sure it's in place for a reason and many people seem to agree with it... 2: It being broadcasted or not is a pretty big factor... But yes, also a bad move. But as long as tournament organizers and others put up with this... Well... Their fault.
I'd agree with this if the minor tournaments had any power at all. There really needs to be some kind of executive body to give each party appropriate power at times like this.
If all minor tournaments just decide to ban (or not invite) Stephano, they're directly hurting their viewership numbers and potential growth. As one of the most prominent foreigners, he's just more important to the scene right now. And when you consider his behaviour, that kinda sucks. At least if you want Starcraft to be professional.
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Supply and Demand.
Stephano does not need tournament, tournament needs Stephano.
Therefore, Stephano gets to play on his own terms. He is his own man and gets to make his own choices.
Now children, lets put on our big boy pants and walk away from this situation. People drop out of tournaments all the time at various stages, there's really no reason to bring torches and pitchforks. This is not a big deal at all, in fact, but sadly it seems these days this community cares more about making huge DRAMAS above all else.. Especially when someone doesn't adhere to some unwritten code of conduct they invented in their heads.
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On January 30 2012 22:21 darkscream wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Supply and Demand.
Stephano does not need tournament, tournament needs Stephano.
Therefore, Stephano gets to play on his own terms. He is his own man and gets to make his own choices.
Now children, lets put on our big boy pants and walk away from this situation. People drop out of tournaments all the time at various stages, there's really no reason to bring torches and pitchforks. This is not a big deal at all, in fact, but sadly it seems these days this community cares more about making huge DRAMAS above all else.. Especially when someone doesn't adhere to some unwritten code of conduct they invented in their heads.
Of course it's a big deal to the tournament organisers, also this "code of conduct written in their heads" are you serious or just trolling, try to win games in tournaments, that's the whole point of being a player in a competition. Does that really need to be written down in a tournament rulebook?
Can't believe I even bothered replying to such drivel.
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so ridicolous some people still think pro players don't owe the community anything..
Professionell players owe the community EVERYTHING imo. This isn't only for starcraft but for every other sport or esport. If there would be no community watching professionell players, these pro players wouldn't earn anything, since the money is raised by sponsors who take the sport as an advertisement platform.
Pretty simple: Low amount of viewers -> low amount of sponsors spending money into it -> low amount of money earned by pro players
It's all about entertainment, not about simply playing the game. Just take Destiny as an example. I don't want to say that he's bad, but lets face it, he's no on the very top level of pro players but still I guess he's making pretty good money. Maybe not the amount of money a Stephano makes, but pretty sure he makes more money than a shitload of people who are skillwise way superior. The point about Destiny is that he's an awesome entertainer. You don't have to agree on this point, but viewercounts speak for themselves.
Also if you transfer this situation into a normal job. You can't just forfeit a task because you feel it's too late.
I think what Stephano did is a disgrace and it shows his attitude towards the community. Some people should realize that the community is what makes them getting paid.
+ Show Spoiler +
When I think back to the contract case compared to this situation I really think stephano needs to learn manners...
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Honestly I blame the tournament 100%...their rep seems to agree. They should not have let him afk. I don't see how they justify denying him prize money though. That's pretty BM. Tournaments should have rules governing forfeits; if you tell a player they can forfeit and then penalize them for doing it WTF? That is unprofessional/Bm
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Stephano is like the Kanye West or Terrell Owens of the esports community. Talented, but also somewhat of a PR liability.
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On January 30 2012 16:18 Wolf wrote:
I'm with Kennigit on this one.
Yea I completely agree. I mean I believe Stephano has already stated hes only doing this to save money for medical education I believe? Which is totally fine but the lack of passion and caring he shows towards the people who organized the event, fellow players, and the community is very appalling.
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Stephano was 100% in his rights to walk away. It's his life and his sleep and his prerogative if he wants to play or not. In the grand scheme of things, ONOG is really just some random event that he signed up for that no one's ever heard of before. He didn't get mad or pretend like it was the right thing to do, he knew full well people would get pissed and still made the decision. If that doesn't speak to the state of physical distress he must have been in, I don't know what will.
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I think Stephano is still going to school, if not maybe he has to do something that following day. How on earth can you blame someone to sleep. Do think ONOG did the right thing, but do not start bm'ing Stephano just because he choose something different then you would choose. You can not make the decision that a final is a better choice. Stephano does not owe the viewers and tournemant anything. It is just a small tournemant who cares.... really guys stop making choices which you can not make for someone else!
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On January 30 2012 17:06 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 16:54 Bayyne wrote:On January 30 2012 16:42 mTw|NarutO wrote:
The right decision in my opinion would have been to postpone the finals to another day. That way the fans got robbed a Stephano vs Kas bo5 and got a match with Kas and an inferior player neither the outcome of the 2nd or 3rd place match.
No offence to CatZ or Illusion, they are both good players and its no shame to be worse than Kas. I can understand the decision, but I don't think it was correct. I couldn't care less about Kas vs someone not up to par wit him :x
Edit: if its correct that he stated he didn't want for the 3rd place match to be finished, they could have played the final and cast it from replays. I don't know if he would have agreed on that.
Edit2: I don't think the player owes the fans entertainment. If Stephano feels like he cannot play his best or cannot deliver against Kas because he's too tired I do think his decision to forfeit was nothing but the right choice. If he owes anything to the fans its to show his best performance or at least try to bring his A-game in a final of such a tournament. What then does he owe to the tournament who has already made accommodations for him earlier in the day, which very lenient accommodations I might add? I agree with you that a player doesn't OWE fans entertainment. But I expect a player to play out any match they signed up for, especially when this isn't your first rodeo as a player. Yeah the fans arguably did get robbed of a higher level finals, but I have Stephano to thank for that. He doesn't owe the tournament anything. It was their decision to invite him. He did play it to the point where he decided he cannot play anymore. Next time they probably won't invite him. He didn't drop a single map in the SCAN invite and did also play the semifinals at the ONOG. I agree the way he did forfeit wasn't very professional but it was a to me reasonable decision. I don't could or should blame ONOG for the decision they made, but that doesn't mean I agree with it. They offered to play the finals and cast it from replays and he didn't accept that - tough luck and not very clever if you ask me, but if you have no contract with the players that can force them to play (i.e $ penalty if they quit for whatever reason) thats just how it goes.
I think this post sums things up well. Had stephano sent a properly worded email or skype message to the tournament organizers explaining why he was unable to play the matches and apologizing for missing the finals I don't think we would even be having this discussion. Stephano is a college student in addition to the hectic pro-gaming schedule; I think it's reasonable and understandable that he may miss some matches from time to time.
Take away here is that professionalism and politeness go a long way.
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On January 30 2012 19:46 mTw|NarutO wrote:
In my opinion Illusion was mad about waiting because he knew he has no chance vs Stephano... ;;. If they decided to start with CatZ vs Kas he would have to wait anyways.
You should research more about what's going on before you start making assumptions.
I wasn't mad he went away for an hour, I was mad I wasn't notified by the admins and I was just sitting there. They weren't telling me anything besides the fact that they are trying to reach him at the time. Anyway, everything is fine now after talking to the admins about it.
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It's got nothing to do with ONOG that he decided to play in 2 tournaments that day. ONOG has it's own schedule, it is totally unacceptable BM to do what Stephano did, best player in EU no doubt but with conduct like that, he doesn't deserve any sympathy. ONOG did their best and they did the right thing imo.
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Stephano has the right idea, which is not to pretend that this is a serious career path. Maybe for a few players who were around in BW days it is, but does anyone think that SC2 is actually going to be a viable career for 10+ years? Hell no. It'll fall apart pretty quickly after Blizzard moves onto their next game, whatever that is.
Stephano is just doing it like most people do their jobs, temporarily for the money to open up new opportunities. You don't work at Mickey D's as a life long career and you don't play SC2 as a life long career.
Anyone who thinks that pro gaming is this huge budding scene is crazy.
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Stephano just lost me as a fan. I laugh at how people are sympathizing with Stephano's sleep schedule. There are times in life where career trumps rest. Clearly people don't understand that. Furthermore, it was Stephano's own doing that got him into this mes.
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On January 30 2012 20:01 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 19:53 Bayyne wrote:
No. I'm asking how did you come up with illusion being mad BECAUSE Stephano is better than him. Maybe he was told by admins his match would start at 5, and that he waited 45minutes? Assumption? Usually players are very insightful on delays... because they know it can happen;;
Are you even reading what you write?
Aside from the fact that your assumptions are wrong as confirmed by Illusion, how is that even logical? You think a player would get mad because they have to play someone better? That happens to EVERY professional player except the top player. The fact that you choose that assumption over the fact that a player is angry because he has to wait for an hour for reasons unknown to him (except that it's somehow related to his opponent) undermines your credibility.
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This is ridiculous.
Why the hell give Stephano the 4th place? He forfeit the final, so he should be 2nd. If ONOG staff wanted to punish him for forfeit, which is ridiculous in itself, they should have taken on and DQ him completely.
And wtf is all this rage on TL everytime a player forfeit ?
Forcing players to play is silly, and so is this punishement thing. A player don't forfeit for no reason, and forbidding him to do so leads to shitty games (cf Naniwa's awesome probe rush).
So why forcing players to play ? This is retarded, and raging about it is even more.
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On January 30 2012 16:42 mTw|NarutO wrote:
The right decision in my opinion would have been to postpone the finals to another day. That way the fans got robbed a Stephano vs Kas bo5 and got a match with Kas and an inferior player neither the outcome of the 2nd or 3rd place match.
No offence to CatZ or Illusion, they are both good players and its no shame to be worse than Kas. I can understand the decision, but I don't think it was correct. I couldn't care less about Kas vs someone not up to par wit him :x
Edit: if its correct that he stated he didn't want for the 3rd place match to be finished, they could have played the final and cast it from replays. I don't know if he would have agreed on that.
Edit2: I don't think the player owes the fans entertainment. If Stephano feels like he cannot play his best or cannot deliver against Kas because he's too tired I do think his decision to forfeit was nothing but the right choice. If he owes anything to the fans its to show his best performance or at least try to bring his A-game in a final of such a tournament.
I agree, postponing the final would have been a better option. Sure, this would have probably pissed off the commentators/casting crew and the viewers to a degree but this isn't a new thing. I've seen finals been postponed plenty of times for SC2 tournaments. Atleast we would of had a real final.
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Canada13386 Posts
On January 31 2012 01:59 Phemtos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 16:42 mTw|NarutO wrote:
The right decision in my opinion would have been to postpone the finals to another day. That way the fans got robbed a Stephano vs Kas bo5 and got a match with Kas and an inferior player neither the outcome of the 2nd or 3rd place match.
No offence to CatZ or Illusion, they are both good players and its no shame to be worse than Kas. I can understand the decision, but I don't think it was correct. I couldn't care less about Kas vs someone not up to par wit him :x
Edit: if its correct that he stated he didn't want for the 3rd place match to be finished, they could have played the final and cast it from replays. I don't know if he would have agreed on that.
Edit2: I don't think the player owes the fans entertainment. If Stephano feels like he cannot play his best or cannot deliver against Kas because he's too tired I do think his decision to forfeit was nothing but the right choice. If he owes anything to the fans its to show his best performance or at least try to bring his A-game in a final of such a tournament. I agree, postponing the final would have been a better option. Sure, this would have probably pissed off the commentators/casting crew and the viewers to a degree but this isn't a new thing. I've seen finals been postponed plenty of times for SC2 tournaments. Atleast we would of had a real final.
I don't understand this point of view. In terms of professionalism he should have played the game. Thats the end of the story.
I understand he has the right to forfeit and he did thats fine and its allowed but it remains unprofessional. For all the talk about wanting to get this game popular and potentially more accepted there needs to be a certain reciprocity between organizers and players.
ONOG set up barcrafts for this invitational. They can't simply dissapoint people going to ONOG barcrafts to watch an ONOG tournament by saying hey lets do the finals tomorrow or the day after.
ONOG provided all the players with an invitation, a date, and times. It is up to the player to accept or reject these conditions once ONOG has provided them.
Furthermore, ONOG allowed stephano almost an hour's break delaying their schedule for his needs. This is some of that reciprocity thing I was mentioning. ONOG understood the player, gave the player time and then proceeded afterwards. Stephano quitting after playing a BO3 vs illusion was unprofessional. If he was tired before these games forfeit then. Do not waste an hour of time then play a series then quit and then not give the organizers a chance to work out an alternative.
For all you know ONOG could have postponed the match and stephano decide he doesnt feel like playing it anymore (for whatever reason). Not only this but this undermines the barcrafts ONOG set up, it undermines the time their casters and streamers and obs were able to give as well.
Just because stephano is good at this game doesn't mean that every tournament should bend to his will. He can't just do what he wants because he's good. Stephano isn't a Diva and ONOG or any other tournament for that matter is not his personal aide.
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On January 30 2012 16:42 mTw|NarutO wrote:
The right decision in my opinion would have been to postpone the finals to another day. That way the fans got robbed a Stephano vs Kas bo5 and got a match with Kas and an inferior player neither the outcome of the 2nd or 3rd place match.
No offence to CatZ or Illusion, they are both good players and its no shame to be worse than Kas. I can understand the decision, but I don't think it was correct. I couldn't care less about Kas vs someone not up to par wit him :x
Edit: if its correct that he stated he didn't want for the 3rd place match to be finished, they could have played the final and cast it from replays. I don't know if he would have agreed on that.
Edit2: I don't think the player owes the fans entertainment. If Stephano feels like he cannot play his best or cannot deliver against Kas because he's too tired I do think his decision to forfeit was nothing but the right choice. If he owes anything to the fans its to show his best performance or at least try to bring his A-game in a final of such a tournament.
I disagree. If you play 2 tournaments at once you are responsible for making it work, not the tournament organizers. Its super annoying when players play multiple tournaments at once and cause delays all the time. They should have just given illusion a default win in the semifinal imo.
I had something like this happen to me before, where i had to wait in a semifinal for almost 2 hours because my opponent was playing something else in the meanwhile. at the end i had to play at 2 AM instead of ~12, at which point i was really tired already and partly lost due to that. It simply punishes the players who arent super annoying with their multi tournament stuff and dont cause delays and rewards the people who do that. Which is not acceptable imo.
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I'm with DarKFoRcE here. I don't like Stephano's behaviour and am not really a fan of his mindset anyway, but he's been pretty mannered so i don't really dislike him. But this was pretty stupid.
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On January 31 2012 01:00 EternaLLegacy wrote:
Stephano has the right idea, which is not to pretend that this is a serious career path. Maybe for a few players who were around in BW days it is, but does anyone think that SC2 is actually going to be a viable career for 10+ years? Hell no. It'll fall apart pretty quickly after Blizzard moves onto their next game, whatever that is.
Stephano is just doing it like most people do their jobs, temporarily for the money to open up new opportunities. You don't work at Mickey D's as a life long career and you don't play SC2 as a life long career.
Anyone who thinks that pro gaming is this huge budding scene is crazy.
Your not alone in that thinking, DJWheat sort of coined the term "esports bubble" to describe just that. But then this is still no reason to excuse unprofessional behavior. Even at McDonald's if you are rude to the customers you are going to get reprimanded.
But I have to admit that my thinking is somewhat along the lines of yours. Stephano is not some high paid professional athelete, nor is any foriegn player. He's just a guy trying to make some money to get through college. Give the guy a break. :\
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On January 30 2012 16:42 mTw|NarutO wrote:
Edit: if its correct that he stated he didn't want for the 3rd place match to be finished, they could have played the final and cast it from replays. I don't know if he would have agreed on that.
Edit2: I don't think the player owes the fans entertainment. If Stephano feels like he cannot play his best or cannot deliver against Kas because he's too tired I do think his decision to forfeit was nothing but the right choice. If he owes anything to the fans its to show his best performance or at least try to bring his A-game in a final of such a tournament.
ONOG wanted to broadcast finals live. I believe they offered him the replay option but he was already peacing out at that point.
When you get invited to play in an event and accept, you owe the tournament, it's organizers, and the fans. It's the same thing in the real world. If I have a job and say I will work, then the time comes and I say I'm too tired AND be completely unreasonable the entire time, then we have problems.
The issue here is not simply a tired player forfeiting, that happens all the time. It was how Stephano handled it which made it so ridiculous. As a professional when you sign up for something then screw things over there's a problem.
Sure ONOG could have done things differently. I personally think they made the right decision considering how Stephano treated them.
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On January 31 2012 01:33 falaakr wrote:
This is ridiculous.
Why the hell give Stephano the 4th place? He forfeit the final, so he should be 2nd. If ONOG staff wanted to punish him for forfeit, which is ridiculous in itself, they should have taken on and DQ him completely.
And wtf is all this rage on TL everytime a player forfeit ?
Forcing players to play is silly, and so is this punishement thing. A player don't forfeit for no reason, and forbidding him to do so leads to shitty games (cf Naniwa's awesome probe rush).
So why forcing players to play ? This is retarded, and raging about it is even more.
I think there is quite a huge difference. Tournaments need to stream viewers to pull sponsors/advertising money to exist. If Gom would have just canceled the Naniwa - Nestea match some people would have been mad but I don't think it would have been a big deal. If a player forfeits a final, which should be the climax of the tournament (unless your GSL Code S ) the tournament loses out on a ton of potential advertising money which is needed to run further tournaments.
To forfeit the finals after he delayed his semi-finals for 45min is just a slap in the face for the people who made this possible. Don't accept an invite to a tournament if your unsure you really want to perform in matches which matter -_- Quite sad that 2 of the fan favorites who got voted into the tournament decided to forfeit their matches.
Kudos to ONOG giving the fans the best possible experience after Stephano tried to trash it.
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United States2095 Posts
Side point, that didn't get put out there, but that annoyed me.
Rules stated all games were to be played on NA server. So I expected this. (I realize it is fairer, ALOT fairer even to alternate servers after each game) However rules are rules and I've played tons of tournaments that are ONLY EU events, and I was looking forward to this event being a NA event.
Stephano said he would forfeit and not play his games against Violet unless it was alternating games. This caused ONLY the matches after his to be played this way. Sase vs Catz for instance was ONLY on NA. And the games of Me vs Kas were played on alternating servers (EU + NA). I do think that way is fairest, but I really dislike coming into a tournament expecting something and having the rules changed on me within 10 minutes of me having to play.
And more on topic, its unprofessional to do this as a player, but if you are as successful of a player as Stephano you can do this and be fine. After all, we all want to see his play. Its amazing play. I mean he alone, is probably why a huge amount of viewers were watching and if he decides randomly he doesn't want to play, he doesn't have to. Its something tournaments have to keep in mind when inviting him though.
I'm a HUGE stephano fan. So please take this as "I wish tournaments wouldn't cater to a player completely" (changing rules on the spot; server situation) and then not expect players to take advantage of the situation, by doing it again (I need sleep or Forfeit). Also, Stephano's play was absurdly good this tournament + I really enjoyed the entire tournament. It was a pleasure to be a part of and I only wish it hadn't been hurt by these occurrences.
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Why are some people pretending as if stephano got off scott free? He got a punishment, and that was -600 dollars in prize money at the end of what he had earned. I think actions taken on BOTH sides were 100% reasonable. How the hell are you gonna force someone to play when they're physically worn down? Like, it's somewhat mind blowing as to why people think he shouldn't be allowed to make this decision for himself. You can retire MID GAME in tennis if you're tired, this is basically the same situation.
The only thing you can blame him for is not having the foresight of how his condition would be after playing these two tournaments, which is really not something everyone can predict because this is basically the first time he's been in this situation. Honestly, do people really believe stephano would give up the chance for 750 more dollars after 1 series in which he's the favorite just so he could abuse the system with his status?
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Don't blame him. Everyone knows zerg is the hardest race to play when tired.
Jokes aside, stephano isn't professional in any manner. In Mr. Chae's words, Stephano is nothing but a "money-hunter".
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4713 Posts
While I can see Sheth's point, and how the tournament organizers also messed up. I don't think its a right mindset to look at Stephano as being such a successful player that he is exempt from forfeiting an important game of a tournament. Such actions need to bear harsh consequences, least players just forfeit games they don't care about because they are "too good" for the rules to apply. Its even more wrong if he was the one to demand rules be changed in the first place.
Though from what I understood the organizers are also to blame. Its a slippery slope if we get to that stage.
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On January 31 2012 06:20 Destructicon wrote:
While I can see Sheth's point, and how the tournament organizers also messed up. I don't think its a right mindset to look at Stephano as being such a successful player that he is exempt from forfeiting an important game of a tournament. Such actions need to bear harsh consequences, least players just forfeit games they don't care about because they are "too good" for the rules to apply. Its even more wrong if he was the one to demand rules be changed in the first place.
Though from what I understood the organizers are also to blame. Its a slippery slope if we get to that stage.
Yeah, but the consequences need to be laid out beforehand. When a player agrees to play in a tournament, it shouldn't be that they are 100% bound to participate in the tournament at all costs, it should be that they are now bound by the rules of the tournament. If the tournament rules account for forfeit with incredibly harsh punishment, then incredibly harsh punishment should be handed out. If it has no rules about forfeit, then forfeit, while undesirable, shouldn't really participate. Personally, even though I think Stephano being punished logically has no merit, I think it feels like a correct punishment based on the manner of the forfeit. I still like stephano and think more chances are always in order. I'm sure he'll keep this experience in mind going forward.
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On January 30 2012 18:38 dtz wrote:
I think Stephano fully deserves the right to forfeit. In any individual sports, you are allowed to forfeit at any time if you feel you are physically incapable. Happens all the time in all sports ( tennis,golf,badminton,table tennis,etc). And I think no one will doubt that he really felt tired after such a gruelling day and couldn't take it anymore when he decided to sleep. It's not as if he lied about being tired to screw the organizers. The man was genuinely tired and sleepy and felt like he wouldn't be able to focus through another match. Just like an athlete is genuinely injured and would be unable to complete a match.
It's just the manner in which Stephano told the organizers might be a little crude and disrespectful. But that's not what many are attacking him for.
ONOG came out with a reasonable solution ( i think Stephano should still get the 2nd place money though because he forfeited the final and thus should come second) but ONOG's decision is somewhat understandable.
I hate you, and I love you at the same time. This is what I would have wanted to say this morning.
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On January 30 2012 16:42 Capped wrote:
Stephano has always been like this, unprofessional and bad mannered, he's a child without much maturity. Look at the way he played two teams off against eachother, signed a contract and then went "well, i dont give a fuck, they offered me more money, cya!"
He's a joke to the SC2 scene and needs to leave if you ask me, this is just proving that fact even more.
Your an idiot if you sign up to two events knowing you wont get a break imbetween, going AWOL then coming back and saying "fuck your tournament, laters" (basically what he did.) You really think thats acceptable? In a tournament with 3k prizemoney?
$3k is alot of money to just throw around willy-nilly and no-one should be messing about or trying to screw a tournament over like he did.
don't see a problem in leaving some low level tournament, stephano obviously wasn't tempted by the prize pool so in my opinion it's on the tournament. he didn't sign a contract, he can quit when ever he wants. if you're so anal about "omfg bbq esports manners" then be professional and have contracts, stop crying about your two dollar tournament that stephano didn't want to play in
edit ~ sorry, doesn't matter what "level" the tournament, have a contract or shut up. you too gsl, stfu
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Despite the "unprofessionalism" of forfeiting... he still has the right as a player to forfeit.
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On January 31 2012 02:28 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 01:00 EternaLLegacy wrote:
Stephano has the right idea, which is not to pretend that this is a serious career path. Maybe for a few players who were around in BW days it is, but does anyone think that SC2 is actually going to be a viable career for 10+ years? Hell no. It'll fall apart pretty quickly after Blizzard moves onto their next game, whatever that is.
Stephano is just doing it like most people do their jobs, temporarily for the money to open up new opportunities. You don't work at Mickey D's as a life long career and you don't play SC2 as a life long career.
Anyone who thinks that pro gaming is this huge budding scene is crazy. Your not alone in that thinking, DJWheat sort of coined the term "esports bubble" to describe just that. But then this is still no reason to excuse unprofessional behavior. Even at McDonald's if you are rude to the customers you are going to get reprimanded. But I have to admit that my thinking is somewhat along the lines of yours. Stephano is not some high paid professional athelete, nor is any foriegn player. He's just a guy trying to make some money to get through college. Give the guy a break. :\
so if he's doing it for the money don't you think he should have played the finals as he would have made more money that way? The logic you put just is silly "he's just some guy trying to make some money" but then forfeits. No he doesn't deserve a break either for forfeiting in the finals just unacceptable and one of the few reasons I heavily dislike him.
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I can see the problem from the tournament guys point of view. They put together a program and were expected to deliver an end product by advertisers and for viewers. Instead, on of the finalists up and quit. It was pretty rude on Stephano's part but as much as I would like to hate him for it I can't. He does have the right to quit the tournament. He's only hurting himself by doing this. People will stop inviting him because he's starting to get quite a reputation as a trouble maker and drama of an extremely negative kind follows him.
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Good post. The correct way to deal with this is for other tournaments to simply not invite Stephano to participate. If he's not willing to honor his commitments (and yes, accepting the invitation was making a commitment to play the games in the schedule he was given), people should stop giving him opportunities.
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On January 31 2012 12:40 thehepp wrote:
Despite the "unprofessionalism" of forfeiting... he still has the right as a player to forfeit.
But then he shouldn't expect any compensation for the tournament at all. Not 2nd place, not 4th place, nothing.
It's like if you were a racing car driver and you got out 100 meters before the finish line and walked away.
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On January 31 2012 04:17 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Side point, that didn't get put out there, but that annoyed me.
Rules stated all games were to be played on NA server. So I expected this. (I realize it is fairer, ALOT fairer even to alternate servers after each game) However rules are rules and I've played tons of tournaments that are ONLY EU events, and I was looking forward to this event being a NA event.
Stephano said he would forfeit and not play his games against Violet unless it was alternating games. This caused ONLY the matches after his to be played this way. Sase vs Catz for instance was ONLY on NA. And the games of Me vs Kas were played on alternating servers (EU + NA). I do think that way is fairest, but I really dislike coming into a tournament expecting something and having the rules changed on me within 10 minutes of me having to play.
And more on topic, its unprofessional to do this as a player, but if you are as successful of a player as Stephano you can do this and be fine. After all, we all want to see his play. Its amazing play. I mean he alone, is probably why a huge amount of viewers were watching and if he decides randomly he doesn't want to play, he doesn't have to. Its something tournaments have to keep in mind when inviting him though.
I'm a HUGE stephano fan. So please take this as "I wish tournaments wouldn't cater to a player completely" (changing rules on the spot; server situation) and then not expect players to take advantage of the situation, by doing it again (I need sleep or Forfeit). Also, Stephano's play was absurdly good this tournament + I really enjoyed the entire tournament. It was a pleasure to be a part of and I only wish it hadn't been hurt by these occurrences.
Coming from you this is almost BM!
Yes, tournaments should really stick to their rules 100% unless something totally unpredicted, unforseen happens. No question about that if the tournament wants to be taken serious.
About Stephano and many other players, in fact a ton of other players, participating in 2 tournaments that will likely colide is stupid and disrespectful as the schedule will be delayed and everyone loses. The viewers, the organizers and the opponents who deliberatly chose to only play ONE tournament to be sure they would make it in time. They now all have to wait so Stephano can eat a sandwich or whatever. Its retarded and ONOG shouldnt have allowed that in the first place.
Despite this rant I am actually also a huge fan of Stephano but no matter how awesome you are not any kind of behavior should be tolerated, whether that be not inviting him in the future, holding his pricemoney or disqualify him if he is even a second late.
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United States22883 Posts
On January 30 2012 22:21 darkscream wrote:
Supply and Demand.
Stephano does not need tournament, tournament needs Stephano.
Contrary to most players and fans' belief, it's the opposite of this. Stephano gets a reasonable draw of viewers, but they could easily replace him with someone who pulls the same or higher, and the tournament already had Destiny and a major casting team.
Tournaments can easily afford to exclude a player or two and if disruptive behavior becomes a regularity, others will follow.
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Just to clarify, he didn't play both tournaments at the same time.
He won the last game of the SCAN final at about 22:50 and his ONOG semi final was scheduled at 23:00, so it could have been perfect, if it wasn't for his food break. (Although, if the BO5 Grubby VS Stephano match would have actually lasted 5 games instead of 3, people would have been way more mad).
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