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I'm posting this as a blog because it's primarily my opinion on the matter.
Also I will preface this by saying I am not directly affiliated with ONOG so anything I say here is purely a personal statement/opinion. I was privileged to be helping in person with the stream and obsing/controlling screen during matches today for all the semifinals/finals and 3rd place match for ONOG invitational tournament.
As anyone watching earlier tonight knows ONOG had to make a very difficult decision during their first ever invitational tournament played this weekend. for anyone who wasn't watching or doesn't know what happened this post from Deric, CEO of ONOG explains the situation well: + Show Spoiler +Hello, this is Deric, the President of One Nation of Gamers. While we were gearing up to begin the 3rd place match, Stephano stated that it was too late for him to play and that he was going to be going to sleep. He gave us the ultimatium that if he can't play another day he will forfeit the match and then logged off.
If One Nation of Gamers is going to work out and do our part to grow eSports, we have to be an organization that puts the fans first. Given that principle, I came to the decision to penalize Stephano and move him to 4th place, have Catz and Illusion play for 2nd/3rd, and have the victor play against Kas.
Everyone involved with One Nation of Gamers has worked incredibly hard -for months- to raise the $3,000 that we've put up for grabs. It's not a lot to everyone, but it's a lot to us and represents month of volunteer work. We decided to run this tournament to give back to eSports, we wanted to help the pros earn a little more and we wanted to provide some great content to the fans. We believe everyone deserves to see an appropriate final series for $1,500.
I realize this decision might be unpopular and I apologize profusely. Lastly, I would like to thank Kas, Catz and Illusion for agreeing to stay and finish these matches out for the fans.
Totally professional and awesome response on the fly to a situation that threw a wrench into the entire event finals. As an organizer of local events myself I've had to deal with some weird stuff, disconnects, random stuff, people showing up to stuff late, being hard to schedule with or coordinate with. Having to resolve stuff on the fly is pretty stressful and not something you really ever can even plan for and can really potentially ruin an event. You can plan out the best event ever and everything can be going perfectly but unknown shit can come flying in out of nowhere which as an event organizer is never fun. (and tends to happen more often than naught)
Stephano was tired yes, he had played in the scan invitational for at least a few hours right before as well which was an unfortunate coincidence of scheduling, due to the vast amount of sc2 events going on it's no easy task finding time slots for broadcasting events. After Stephano finished in Scan Invitational he asked for some time after to get food before playing his semifinal match vs vileIllusion, he was granted this but ended up disappearing for almost an hour which delayed the start of the event broadcast. Eventually Catz vs Kas was broadcast first when Stephano was nowhere to be found after a delay of at least 45 minutes. This was not only pretty rough for the event but also for Illusion to have to deal with, shows up for what he expects a match at 5 and waits for 45 minutes before being told it's not going to be for another 2 hours...
After Stephano got back he played Illusion and right after winning he complained that it was late and didn't want to wait for 3rd place match and that he would just forfeit the finals match. He logged off pretty quickly after this which throws ONOG into a pretty ridiculous situation. I think they made the correct decision though but it definitely wasn't easy. Great job by MrBitter having to explain this and break the news in the best possible way explaining a pretty weird situation that you don't really have to deal with every day. They could have simply allowed the finals to be lost, (give Kas first, Stephano second and cut the stream off) but the finals of an event is literally your prime material which Stephano was jeopardizing without showing any concern whatsoever. He wasn't really being easy to work with AT all and things I think eventually started adding up. It wasn't really a simple forfeit at that point Stephano had done multiple things to screw with the event.
A player can of course forfeit a match at any time if they are unwilling to play. But in my opinion as a professional in this business you owe it to your team, the event, fans, anyone involved to play the matches. And because Stephano did not do this I am personally pretty disappointed in him. The manner with which he forfeit was pretty bad too. He easily could have simply forfeit before even playing the semifinal match. This would have helped the event, simply advance Illusion. Instead Stephano not only delayed the event but even after showing up and playing he peaces out without much care for anyone involved. This is pretty ridiculous behavior in my opinion. The times of matches were communicated well in advance so if he felt the match time was too late or he would have issues you correct it days in advance. Don't wait for it to happen and just complain. Also the manner with which he left was just like "k forfeit peace" obviously not really caring about any of the aforementioned things. At the very least when you have 13k viewers on a stream tuning in to watch sc2, you owe them, the fans. This is an entertainment business and saying your too tired isn't entertaining anyone other than bringing out the pitchforks. (which btw is actually quite entertaining in its own way) But seriously if your going to act like this I don't think you should even be playing the game. Kennigit had a pretty strong tweet on the matter earlier which I found very interesting:
"The fact that a player can jeopardize a broadcast put on mainly by volunteers is abhorrent. Should be met with tournament bans all around."
Raises another question but this could honestly be a topic for a whole separate blog post.
Meanwhile Kas who is in similar time zone was completely cooperative the entire time which was awesome to see. I didn't really know Kas before this event other than just seeing his games, but I'm a huge fan now. The guy is really awesome/good mannered and an extremely talented player, easily the best non korean Terran player currently in my opinion.
At the end of the day honestly running tournaments isn't easy, some players are more difficult to work with than others though that's for sure. Anyone who deals with players on the management side of sc2 can probably attest to this. Sometimes even insanely talented players have issues staying on teams or in general just because they are so difficult to work with in public or from a management standpoint.
At the end of the day ONOG is just a really awesome organization and I support them 100%. They go above and beyond and it really means alot to players, coordinators, managers, anyone interacting with them basically, total class act all around which is what will help esports grow. We are privileged to have people like this helping the sc2 community, anyone who lives near any of the locations of their barcrafts should get out and help support because they are doing great things for the community.
~LF
>_>;
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if players do not take the game seriously, then it looks real bad from the point of view of sponsors. bad move stephy
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Might as well repost from ONOG thread..
On January 30 2012 15:59 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 15:29 shaberu wrote:
Most people aren't arguing that Stephano behaved professionally, but, rather, that ONOG was also unprofessional in the way they handled the situation. Forfeiting a match that people were waiting to see played may have consequences for Stephano in the future, certainly, but he obviously wasn't going to throw the games quickly after the recent drama over Naniwa. ONOG, however, behaved in an equally unprofessional manner by revoking the earned prize money of a player without notifying the player (as they admittedly report that Stephano was offline and they had no means of contacting him, which, in itself, is highly unprofessional).
This is a case of both parties behaving in a disrespectful and unprofessional manner, not a battle between who you like/hate more. Stephano deserves his money and to be viewed with the approbation he deserves. ONOG should have thought about the possibilities and prepared in advance. If they think it's fair and professional to back on out advertised prize pools, they should probably get their players to sign a contract.
The problem is that, as an organization, ONOG saddles the other side of the equation we've seen previously in posts regarding tournament winnings and shady organizations. Sure, players (without rehashing the numerous cases we've seen recently) have their own issues, but when tournaments arbitrarily screw players over citing entertainment value, it sets a bad precedent. They clearly stated that the reason Stephano was not given his earned prize was due to his performance not being worthy of a $1,500 final set of games. What performance is worthy, then? If he cheesed out the matches, would that be worthy? If he threw the games entirely, would that be worthy? If the games were just boring, would that be worthy? Was Stephano's performance over the course of the tournament only worth 4th place? Should we start giving out prize money based on how entertaining games were? While the ShoutCraft tip jar is perhaps a great idea, changing advertised prize amounts based on perceived entertainment value is not. Not only that, but was any money made off advertising during the Stephano games? How many viewers can be attributed to having watched specifically for Stephano? There are a lot of less-tangible factors that would come into play.
ONOG didn't think. They made an idiotic split-second decision, and they should pay Stephano his winnings (and, well, I guess pay Illusion the same). Stephano should make yet another PR apology to fans, because everyone knows it won't be sincere and that he probably doesn't care.
I know I'd certainly never support an ONOG event again. They've basically fallen into the trap that plagues esports at the moment:
1 - No back-up plan. Obviously, by now, this is necessity. It is your responsibility to entertain viewers.
2 - Arbitrary revoking/modifying prize pools with no notice to players. This is just disgusting, whether or not Stephano "deserved it" for his behaviour or not. It's not up to you to decide whether matches (or non-matches) were "worth" money unless players have agreed to this beforehand. It is your responsible to payout as advertised.
If Stephano deserves to be banned from tournaments for his unprofessional behaviour, ONOG deserves to be boycotted by players for theirs. You can't have it both ways; professionalism should be displayed from both sides, or we're never going to get anywhere. As a player, I completely disagree. I give three reasons for my disagreement, and I believe it's entirely Stephano's fault. Here is why: 1. Stephano was playing two tournaments at once, and forced a 40 minute delay of his semi-final. This in itself is quite rude and could have warranted a walkover being given. Obviously ONOG was trying their best to avoid the situation, but it still does not look good for Stephano. 2. ONOG offered Stephano to play the finals immediately, and to cast from replays, rather than wait for the third place match. This is an extremely generous and lenient offer, and Stephano simply gave ONOG an ultimatum and logged off. 3. It's ridiculously irresponsible of Stephano to log off knowing they have none of your contact info, after giving a ridiculous ultimatum they can't afford to meet. ONOG had outlined the schedule of the tournament beforehand, and Stephano completely disrespected this after ACCEPTING HIS INVITATION and playing through the entire day without any complaint or warning to ONOG. Perhaps he could've said earlier "I don't think I can play the finals at this time" but he simply waited til then, said he was tired, and gave ONOG no opportunity to provide a real solution. "I was tired" is a ridiculous excuse for the finals of a tournament, and cheesing or even drone rushing the finals is by far more respectable than what Stephano did. No one can force a player to try his best one hundred percent, but by accepting an invitation or signing up for a tournament, you're agreeing to play it through. It's ridiculous that we should have to contract players to every tournament, and as a player I completely support and respect ONOG's decision. The advertised prizemoney was assuming that he actually did complete the tournament placing in second. He obviously didn't do that. Had he reasonably earned the second place money? Possibly, but the three reasons above IMO give plenty of evidence that ONOG tried their hardest to find a solution and simply couldn't under Stephano's absurd terms.
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Wow, thats pretty awesome. It was really an interesting decision but looking back it's definitely the correct one.
edit: Can you imagine if in the NBA finals the East conference champs decided to just not play and forfeit?
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I would like to point out that LuckyFool came over for the waffle party, and ending up observing the matches for us. It was absolutely amazing of him to do so.
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It was pretty late for EU people, but then again, he knew the schedule before he signed up to it? I made a concious decision not to watch it because I had to be up early for work, I think most people would agree with me in that you shouldn't promise to do something and then backtrack. Added to that fact he was playing in the final and was a major draw because watchers would have loved to see a Kas vs Stephano final.
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I agree with Pokebunny + Show Spoiler +even though he called me a bad word in another blog! T_T
It's really just a great lack of respect for an organization that's trying hard to make things work. I sort of wish a bit of a bigger deal of it was being made since I doubt Stephano will get as much poor attention as it probably deserves to help him smarten up. Can't let their heads get too big.
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So many people getting their panties in a knot. Yeah, it sucks for the tournament but what are you going to do? The man knew he wouldn't play very well. If he pulled a Naniwa would people be happy? What if he did some roach/ling all-in halfheartedly?
The only thing you could call him out on is not waiting another two minutes to discuss the fact that he wanted to forfeit, which is a trivial matter of social etiquette and nothing else - everyone else would have still had to deal with the fact that he quit in the same way.
The fact is, we have no idea anything about Stephano's health, perspective, or standard sleep schedule. If he was too tired to play, he was too tired to play.
If you could force him to play the games, you would end up with shit games.
If you let him forfeit, you end up with an awkward hole in the scheduling.
I feel sorry for the internet which demands 100% from players 100% of the time as if they aren't human. He forfeit, it's not a big deal... but instead there's a thousand-post reddit about it and no doubt he will have to deal with some shit in the morning.
It's really too bad the community has to break out the pitchforks and fire any time anyone does ANYTHING.
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What time was it ? How long had they been playing ? Was Stephano told when he was invited that he may have to stay up all night ?
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The more I think about it, the more I'm amazed at the decision. Having a 2/3 match is definitely the best. It makes it like a loser bracket final formal.
A 2/4 match or having illusion advance to the finals is both extremely unfair.
A 3/4 match and a forfeit finals is just bad sponsorship etc.
Awesome job and quick thinking!
edit: imagine this, "our ace player is injured" so we forfeit nba finals.
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On January 30 2012 16:12 endy wrote:
What time was it ? How long had they been playing ? Was Stephano told when he was invited that he may have to stay up all night ?
We sent all the players a copy of the rules that hashed out when each match would be played before the pool play started.
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I'm with Kennigit on this one.
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United States13143 Posts
On January 30 2012 15:55 LuckyFool wrote:
Meanwhile Kas who is in similar time zone was completely cooperative the entire time which was awesome to see. I didn't really know Kas before this event other than just seeing his games, but I'm a huge fan now. The guy is really awesome/good mannered and an extremely talented player, easily the best non korean Terran player currently in my opinion.
I think the fact that Kas was under similar conditions as Stephano is something that people don't seem to realize about all this. He was also in SCAN, although he had to play one less match(got knocked out in the semis, no third place match). On the other hand, he even lives an hour later than Stephano. Stephano refused to play a match that would start around 2-3AM his time. Kas ended up playing(and winning) a match that started around 5AM his time. When your opponent is under similar conditions to you, it invalidates these kind of complaints a little, I think.
(That said, if it's possible it would be for the best if players didn't have to play in the middle of the night.)
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drone rushing the finals is by far more respectable than what Stephano did.
Well not really.
A player can of course forfeit a match at any time if they are unwilling to play.
This pretty much justifies what stephano did. He was simply exercising his own rights.
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It's Stephano's loss, both in reputation and money. Maybe planning long term isn't one of his strengths.
Oh well, I'm glad it turned out this way actually. I'd rather watch sick base trades from Illusion vs Kas and marine spread vs tanks than roach/bane being a-moved into walls for 5 games straight.
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10387 Posts
Stephano's only playing the game to get as much money up to a certain date, then quitting right? So his attitude isn't very surprising, but a damn shame indeed :\
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It sounds like Stephano made a pretty understandable decision and that ONOG reacted correctly. Everything sounds pretty right.
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I'd understand if he had early wake up to school or work but correct me if im wrong but this is his job? Take a nap or something if you know it's going to be a long night.
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I heard he was playing tournys for 12 hours and it was 2 am with another bo7 coming up. For a guy who only likes to play 4 hours a day, that's probably pretty tiresome. I do agree with their decision though. A player is expected to play those matches for the sake of the organization holding the event.
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Stephano has always been like this, unprofessional and bad mannered, he's a child without much maturity. Look at the way he played two teams off against eachother, signed a contract and then went "well, i dont give a fuck, they offered me more money, cya!"
He's a joke to the SC2 scene and needs to leave if you ask me, this is just proving that fact even more.
Your an idiot if you sign up to two events knowing you wont get a break imbetween, going AWOL then coming back and saying "fuck your tournament, laters" (basically what he did.) You really think thats acceptable? In a tournament with 3k prizemoney?
$3k is alot of money to just throw around willy-nilly and no-one should be messing about or trying to screw a tournament over like he did.
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EPT
