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On January 30 2012 17:51 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 17:49 Tobberoth wrote:
Stephano is so arrogant. IMO it makes perfect sense what happened. He's a "professional" gamer, he can't just quit when he wants to and expect to get away with it. If my company tells me we need a project finished on saturday, I'm not going to give an ultimatum saying that I will do it on monday or not complete the project.
If you are by and far your company's most valuable asset they cannot afford to lose, you most certainly can do that.
Sure, you can be an asshole if you're needed, doesn't make it cool. If I refused to fix a problem on a saturday, it could cost my company several millions of dollars. Just because I'm a bit tired? You won't stay valuable to a company if you have zero sense of professionalism.
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I've been a huge Stephano fan for long, but here I just think he was wrong, wrong and wrong again.
When you become a "pro" player, you earn some rights but also some obligations. One of them is to respect the community.
As others stated, Stephano was well aware of the schedule even before the tournament and should have adapted as Kas did - very professionally. Instead of that he acted like a spoiled child who is used to get whatever he asks and doesn't give a shit about others...
Very, very disrespectful and disappointing. As much as I like Stephano, I think we shouldn't have gotten a cent from this tournament (the eating delay was in itself a lack of respect also, but I will forget it).
This reminds us that as good as a player is, he might still be a child elsewhere.
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On January 30 2012 16:42 Capped wrote:
Stephano has always been like this, unprofessional and bad mannered, he's a child without much maturity. Look at the way he played two teams off against eachother, signed a contract and then went "well, i dont give a fuck, they offered me more money, cya!"
He's a joke to the SC2 scene and needs to leave if you ask me, this is just proving that fact even more.
Your an idiot if you sign up to two events knowing you wont get a break imbetween, going AWOL then coming back and saying "fuck your tournament, laters" (basically what he did.) You really think thats acceptable? In a tournament with 3k prizemoney?
$3k is alot of money to just throw around willy-nilly and no-one should be messing about or trying to screw a tournament over like he did.
What a load of crap. Stephano has allways been professional and never bad mannered he is however a huge troll.
You and you post are a joke to the sc2 scene.
Stephano has played hundreds of tournament and there has never been an incident with him before
The hate Stephano gets is so funny. He beats everyone and some people cant take it so instead of attacking his skills like they did in the past they have to attack his charecter
Stay classy..
The TL forum bloddy discusting sometimes.
Anyway keep hating bro Stephano still gonna win most things he enters and im sure it will piss you off even more
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Guess Stephano just needs to plan his time tables a little bit more if he thinks he can't handle two back to back tournaments in a row.
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On January 30 2012 18:08 HappyChris wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 16:42 Capped wrote:
Stephano has always been like this, unprofessional and bad mannered, he's a child without much maturity. Look at the way he played two teams off against eachother, signed a contract and then went "well, i dont give a fuck, they offered me more money, cya!"
He's a joke to the SC2 scene and needs to leave if you ask me, this is just proving that fact even more.
Your an idiot if you sign up to two events knowing you wont get a break imbetween, going AWOL then coming back and saying "fuck your tournament, laters" (basically what he did.) You really think thats acceptable? In a tournament with 3k prizemoney?
$3k is alot of money to just throw around willy-nilly and no-one should be messing about or trying to screw a tournament over like he did. What a load of crap. Stephano has allways been professional and never bad mannered he is however a huge troll. You and you post are a joke to the sc2 scene. The hate Stephano gets is so funny. He beats everyone and some people cant take it so instead of attacking his skills like they did in the past they have to attack his charecter Stay classy.. The TL forum bloddy discusting sometimes. Anyway keep hating bro Stephano still gonna win most things he enters and im sure it will piss you off even more
You must admit, ruining a tournament like that is pretty unprofessional. How would you feel if you were one of these event organisiers?
Stuff like this puts off organisations from doing future events. Not saying it will happen in this instance, but it's definitely not producing anything positive
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
fk that shit, sleep is sacred yo
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I think Stephano fully deserves the right to forfeit. In any individual sports, you are allowed to forfeit at any time if you feel you are physically incapable. Happens all the time in all sports ( tennis,golf,badminton,table tennis,etc). And I think no one will doubt that he really felt tired after such a gruelling day and couldn't take it anymore when he decided to sleep. It's not as if he lied about being tired to screw the organizers. The man was genuinely tired and sleepy and felt like he wouldn't be able to focus through another match. Just like an athlete is genuinely injured and would be unable to complete a match.
It's just the manner in which Stephano told the organizers might be a little crude and disrespectful. But that's not what many are attacking him for.
ONOG came out with a reasonable solution ( i think Stephano should still get the 2nd place money though because he forfeited the final and thus should come second) but ONOG's decision is somewhat understandable.
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On January 30 2012 16:11 darkscream wrote:
So many people getting their panties in a knot. Yeah, it sucks for the tournament but what are you going to do? The man knew he wouldn't play very well. If he pulled a Naniwa would people be happy? What if he did some roach/ling all-in halfheartedly?
The only thing you could call him out on is not waiting another two minutes to discuss the fact that he wanted to forfeit, which is a trivial matter of social etiquette and nothing else - everyone else would have still had to deal with the fact that he quit in the same way.
The fact is, we have no idea anything about Stephano's health, perspective, or standard sleep schedule. If he was too tired to play, he was too tired to play.
If you could force him to play the games, you would end up with shit games.
If you let him forfeit, you end up with an awkward hole in the scheduling.
I feel sorry for the internet which demands 100% from players 100% of the time as if they aren't human. He forfeit, it's not a big deal... but instead there's a thousand-post reddit about it and no doubt he will have to deal with some shit in the morning.
It's really too bad the community has to break out the pitchforks and fire any time anyone does ANYTHING.
The thing is though, he knew the TIME SCHEDULE BEFORE HE WAS INVITED and still ACCEPTED it. Considering these circumstances it's completely unacceptable for him to do what he did. You look at the schedule and go "well I'm probably going to be really tired playing two tournaments at the same time throughout the whole day/night so I probably shouldn't accept my invite for THIS one".
It's just bad planning/foresight from the player to not well, plan ahead or consider the surrounding factors such as fatigue/tiredness etc. And to then after that go "well I'm too tired, and if I can't play tomorrow then fuck it" is very rude.
We're not bringing out the pitchforks for no reason here, it might be that for the majority of the cases it might seem unreasonable but not in this case.
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On January 30 2012 17:06 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 16:54 Bayyne wrote:On January 30 2012 16:42 mTw|NarutO wrote:
The right decision in my opinion would have been to postpone the finals to another day. That way the fans got robbed a Stephano vs Kas bo5 and got a match with Kas and an inferior player neither the outcome of the 2nd or 3rd place match.
No offence to CatZ or Illusion, they are both good players and its no shame to be worse than Kas. I can understand the decision, but I don't think it was correct. I couldn't care less about Kas vs someone not up to par wit him :x
Edit: if its correct that he stated he didn't want for the 3rd place match to be finished, they could have played the final and cast it from replays. I don't know if he would have agreed on that.
Edit2: I don't think the player owes the fans entertainment. If Stephano feels like he cannot play his best or cannot deliver against Kas because he's too tired I do think his decision to forfeit was nothing but the right choice. If he owes anything to the fans its to show his best performance or at least try to bring his A-game in a final of such a tournament. What then does he owe to the tournament who has already made accommodations for him earlier in the day, which very lenient accommodations I might add? I agree with you that a player doesn't OWE fans entertainment. But I expect a player to play out any match they signed up for, especially when this isn't your first rodeo as a player. Yeah the fans arguably did get robbed of a higher level finals, but I have Stephano to thank for that. He doesn't owe the tournament anything. It was their decision to invite him. He did play it to the point where he decided he cannot play anymore. Next time they probably won't invite him. He didn't drop a single map in the SCAN invite and did also play the semifinals at the ONOG. I agree the way he did forfeit wasn't very professional but it was a to me reasonable decision. I don't could or should blame ONOG for the decision they made, but that doesn't mean I agree with it. They offered to play the finals and cast it from replays and he didn't accept that - tough luck and not very clever if you ask me, but if you have no contract with the players that can force them to play (i.e $ penalty if they quit for whatever reason) thats just how it goes.
I agree with NarutO on this one.
Players always have the right to forfeit a game if they aren't able to play for whatever reason. It's like in any other sport. They aren't our personal clowns that have to jump when we demand it. Of course I want to see good games and of course I am disappointed when a player forfeits a game (be it a probe rush, premature rage quit or simply not playing at all), but I don't believe that the player OWES me in any way.
There's of course always the question about how something like that goes down, and in this case how it went down was awful. I would have loved to see Stephano win two tournaments in one night, so I was really disappointed when I heard he decided not to play the finals.
However, what disappointed me more than being "robbed" of a Kas-Stephano finals was the way Stephano handled the situation. Behaving like a diva and not showing much concern about organizers and fans does come across somewhat unprofessional, yes. It also made a bad situation turn to worse, because by the way this played out it did not seem to be just a simple forfeit any more. Had Stephano handled this a little more intelligently, the drama would have been only half as bad.
But I don't think it gives me the right to start a flamefest and insult the player or demand all kinds of ridiculous punishment. I'm not a very emotional person, so maybe that's the reason I don't understand the amount of drama things like this always cause. I just think the general overreaction by the community isn't helping this kind of situation at all.
I think the organizers handled the situation okay given the circumstances, and I can accept their decision as a compromise, but I personally would have preferred to see a Stephano-Kas final at another day when both of them have had some sleep.
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On January 30 2012 18:44 Tenox wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 16:11 darkscream wrote:
So many people getting their panties in a knot. Yeah, it sucks for the tournament but what are you going to do? The man knew he wouldn't play very well. If he pulled a Naniwa would people be happy? What if he did some roach/ling all-in halfheartedly?
The only thing you could call him out on is not waiting another two minutes to discuss the fact that he wanted to forfeit, which is a trivial matter of social etiquette and nothing else - everyone else would have still had to deal with the fact that he quit in the same way.
The fact is, we have no idea anything about Stephano's health, perspective, or standard sleep schedule. If he was too tired to play, he was too tired to play.
If you could force him to play the games, you would end up with shit games.
If you let him forfeit, you end up with an awkward hole in the scheduling.
I feel sorry for the internet which demands 100% from players 100% of the time as if they aren't human. He forfeit, it's not a big deal... but instead there's a thousand-post reddit about it and no doubt he will have to deal with some shit in the morning.
It's really too bad the community has to break out the pitchforks and fire any time anyone does ANYTHING. The thing is though, he knew the TIME SCHEDULE BEFORE HE WAS INVITED and still ACCEPTED it. Considering these circumstances it's completely unacceptable for him to do what he did. You look at the schedule and go "well I'm probably going to be really tired playing two tournaments at the same time throughout the whole day/night so I probably shouldn't accept my invite for THIS one". It's just bad planning/foresight from the player to not well, plan ahead or consider the surrounding factors such as fatigue/tiredness etc. And to then after that go "well I'm too tired, and if I can't play tomorrow then fuck it" is very rude. We're not bringing out the pitchforks for no reason here, it might be that for the majority of the cases it might seem unreasonable but not in this case.
How does knowing the schedule affects anything though? Almost anyone who forfeits a tournament knows the schedule before hand. It's just that unexpectedly or out of poor planning he is too tired to continue. Maybe because he was too drained from the previous matches, maybe something else.
Same with a competitor in any other field who forfeits. He knows the schedule before hand as well no? It is then because something happens unexpectedly or due to poor planning he has to forfeit. Let's say a tennis player get injured and has to forfeit a match. Not as if he didn't know when he was supposed to play. Maybe he is injured ( unfit to play) because he overexerted himself during training. Maybe it's a freak accident. Maybe his previous match has taken its toll on him because it was harder than expected. If you think tennis ( a sport) and Starcraft ( e-sport) is not comparable then replace Tennis with Chess. Same arguments apply.
Same thing with Stephano's case. He was tired (unfit to play) and therefore has the right to forfeit just like every other individual competitor.. The case with schedule is absolutely the same here.We can fail him for his poor planning but this is the same case as majority of other cases and not an anomaly as you mentioned.
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Switzerland2892 Posts
On January 30 2012 18:08 HappyChris wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 16:42 Capped wrote:
Stephano has always been like this, unprofessional and bad mannered, he's a child without much maturity. Look at the way he played two teams off against eachother, signed a contract and then went "well, i dont give a fuck, they offered me more money, cya!"
He's a joke to the SC2 scene and needs to leave if you ask me, this is just proving that fact even more.
Your an idiot if you sign up to two events knowing you wont get a break imbetween, going AWOL then coming back and saying "fuck your tournament, laters" (basically what he did.) You really think thats acceptable? In a tournament with 3k prizemoney?
$3k is alot of money to just throw around willy-nilly and no-one should be messing about or trying to screw a tournament over like he did. Stephano has played hundreds of tournament and there has never been an incident with him before
There were already incidents at assembly summer 2011 and dh winter 2011
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TL sure love drama
Edit:
Nothing wrong with what stephano did, and the organizer did what is best for their tournament. I don't see anything wrong with this, except the way stephano act like an asshole to ONOG.
Seriously people, chill out.
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On January 30 2012 18:44 Tenox wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 16:11 darkscream wrote:
So many people getting their panties in a knot. Yeah, it sucks for the tournament but what are you going to do? The man knew he wouldn't play very well. If he pulled a Naniwa would people be happy? What if he did some roach/ling all-in halfheartedly?
The only thing you could call him out on is not waiting another two minutes to discuss the fact that he wanted to forfeit, which is a trivial matter of social etiquette and nothing else - everyone else would have still had to deal with the fact that he quit in the same way.
The fact is, we have no idea anything about Stephano's health, perspective, or standard sleep schedule. If he was too tired to play, he was too tired to play.
If you could force him to play the games, you would end up with shit games.
If you let him forfeit, you end up with an awkward hole in the scheduling.
I feel sorry for the internet which demands 100% from players 100% of the time as if they aren't human. He forfeit, it's not a big deal... but instead there's a thousand-post reddit about it and no doubt he will have to deal with some shit in the morning.
It's really too bad the community has to break out the pitchforks and fire any time anyone does ANYTHING. The thing is though, he knew the TIME SCHEDULE BEFORE HE WAS INVITED and still ACCEPTED it. Considering these circumstances it's completely unacceptable for him to do what he did. You look at the schedule and go "well I'm probably going to be really tired playing two tournaments at the same time throughout the whole day/night so I probably shouldn't accept my invite for THIS one". It's just bad planning/foresight from the player to not well, plan ahead or consider the surrounding factors such as fatigue/tiredness etc. And to then after that go "well I'm too tired, and if I can't play tomorrow then fuck it" is very rude. We're not bringing out the pitchforks for no reason here, it might be that for the majority of the cases it might seem unreasonable but not in this case.
So the guy is physically incapable of playing on and you think he shouldn't be allowed to forfeit? The fuck? Sometimes you don't know what your condition will be like ahead of time or how long things will last. This went on till 2 am for a european tournament. Let's say MVP's CTS started acting up and he forfeited. I guess that's unacceptable because he knew of his condition beforehand but never dealt with it.
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On January 30 2012 18:59 pPingu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 18:08 HappyChris wrote:On January 30 2012 16:42 Capped wrote:
Stephano has always been like this, unprofessional and bad mannered, he's a child without much maturity. Look at the way he played two teams off against eachother, signed a contract and then went "well, i dont give a fuck, they offered me more money, cya!"
He's a joke to the SC2 scene and needs to leave if you ask me, this is just proving that fact even more.
Your an idiot if you sign up to two events knowing you wont get a break imbetween, going AWOL then coming back and saying "fuck your tournament, laters" (basically what he did.) You really think thats acceptable? In a tournament with 3k prizemoney?
$3k is alot of money to just throw around willy-nilly and no-one should be messing about or trying to screw a tournament over like he did. Stephano has played hundreds of tournament and there has never been an incident with him before There were already incidents at assembly summer 2011 and dh winter 2011
this + his team switching drama. Chris your just an arrogant fanboy.
For starters i never once mentioned his skill or tournament results, yet im a hater who cries because all he does it crush everyone. Well, he doesnt crush everyone thats why he's not won every major / minor tournament he enters, not participating in code S and winning it either. If you want to get pissy about his results etc.
But we are NOT talking about his results, just his professionalism and manner.
If you sign up to 2 tournaments knowing the timescale of both of them, you should fuckin' play it out - Its as simple as that. The tournament was not delayed for any reason other then him, which is rude as it is. Then he turns round and says he's tired, gives no option to the tournament and goes offline, asshole move and very bad way to forfeit even if your going to.
The blogs going downhill now with the "TL loves drama omgomg" fools and the fanboys running in and shouting EVERYTHING STEPHANO DOES IS AWESOME THE SUN SHINES OUT HIS ASSCRACK!
I dont like naruto but at least the things he said were decent and constructive -_-
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1: What Stephano did wasn't exactly "nice" but he had the right to do it so well... I don't know how he felt/what was wrong, i don't care.. It wasn't the "neat" thing to do but he has no oblgation to be nice.....
2: While not a real fault of the tournamnet, having a final at that time is "questionable" no matter how you look at it. It's late for the viewers, it's late for the players... Just play the next day?
3. Imho a torunament that is scared of things like this shouldn't allow players to compete at multiple tourneys at once. Yes, you might lose a player but the ones you have are 100% there for "you".
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To sum up what I do think about the incident:
- Stephano did forfeit and that in itself is perfectly fine
- the way he did forfeit and just leaving after the notice is unprofessional
- the decision the organizers made is reasonable, but I don't agree with it. In my opinion they made a mistake because:
- Stephano did gain 2nd place, as he qualified for the final and you cannot rob him his prize money, just because you disagree with his decision. Punishment should be made after the tournament (no invite for the next tournament, etc)
- the community is being ridiculous if they really think a player owes someone something. A player doesn't owe a thing to the community nor the casters, even if you don't like it.
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Switzerland2892 Posts
On January 30 2012 19:18 mTw|NarutO wrote:
- the decision the organizers made is reasonable, but I don't agree with it. In my opinion they made a mistake because:
- Stephano did gain 2nd place, as he qualified for the final and you cannot rob him his prize money, just because you disagree with his decision. Punishment should be made after the tournament (no invite for the next tournament, etc)
I think this decision was made because they had to wait him 40min, hoping to have a good final. It was a bit unfair for illusion, pretty sure he would have been disqualified if he did it.
edit: didn't see it before but illusion had the same opinion
vileIllusion Chris Lee
wait 45 mins no DQ, if I was late 15 minutes I would be instant DQ no? where is the consistency ;;
And it would have been pretty shitty to end the tournament with no final.
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Are the people defending him serious? No professional, in any sports field, forfeits a final because they're fucking tired. Tennis players will play badly through great pain until they concede that they have to give up. Players in team sports will keep going until their coach pulls them off. I don't think a single person has quoted a situation where a top professional in a particular field bows out because they're tired.
All his actions throughout his 'career' indicate that he shouldn't be called a 'progamer'. He began his career by reneging on a contract after his old team makes a better offer, with only a relatively minor fine thanks to French law. He threw games that actually affected group standings in a major tournament - an act worse than Naniwa's for tournament integrity, but it wasn't broadcasted.
In order to get a final match, and all of the potential exposure that brings, reshuffling the standings makes sense. When considering professionalism and the integrity of the tournament, however, it is totally unacceptable. You can be damned sure that a professional entity like the IPL would do whatever it takes to get a legitimate final played out, and that a separate penalty would be applied to Stephano.
In the end all involved look amateur. This is just the competitive environment of Starcraft 2 right now - without an organised body like KeSPA to oversee and resolve disputes, the players tend to be more like prize-fighters, and the tournaments of little meaning to them.
Makes me wish we could just get a few major leagues set-up, with events like ONOG falling under them (like MLG's setup). Seems so much more stable.
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Not fair to the viewers, but for everyone else it wasn't a big deal. Shouldn't have just logged off like that though, rather rude.
Talented player, nonetheless.
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What I do think of the situation is:
- Stephano is in his fully right to forfeit a match without being disqualified from previous won games. He should have earned his prize. He just couldn't play anymore.
- The way he managed to do that was awful, disrepectful towards the organisers and the fans.
- Tumba should not cast a sc2 game anymore: beside the fact that he is not that good, he made an awkward comment, which was supposed to be funny, about history. Whatever the discussions you're gonna see in a community forum, a commentator shouldn't be allowed to say that.
- Stephano is a big troll
- For a man who wants to become a doctor, stephano is not acting professionally. When you're on call for 24 hours, you just can't refuse to take care of a patient just because you're tired since it's your job. Atm, sc2 is stephano's job so his moral should have told him to play the games.
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EPT
