EPTSJames on Getting Permanently Banned. - Page 4
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Megaliskuu
United States5123 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
On January 23 2012 05:59 Megaliskuu wrote: lol @ title change xD You can't accuse the TL mods of not having a sense of humor. | ||
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Megaliskuu
United States5123 Posts
On January 23 2012 06:01 Jerubaal wrote: You can't accuse the TL mods of not having a sense of humor. Most don't, sadly  , would be much more fun if they did. | ||
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Xiron
Germany1233 Posts
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Mr. Black
United States470 Posts
Please get help. Obviously, if this is simply an abstract argument in favor of allowing the terminally ill to die with dignity, that is a different argument (because depression is typically treatable). But I do not think it is. Everyone knows the main symptoms of depression, but here are some of the less common symptoms of depression that can be alleviated with medication and counseling: 1. Chronic diarrea. 2. Full body pain and soreness 3. Lack of sex drive 4. Nausea 5. Insomnia 6. Lack of focus (ADHD) My depression manifests as shame (and some physical symptoms). At my worst I had some pretty dark thoughts. After finally getting help after decades of thinking that medication and counseling were for the weak, I gained some perspective. I am glad that I did. One other thing that can help with depression is to try to do something for other people. Working with a charity or service organization, or just helping a friend or family with something they need help with, can help us get out of our own heads -- its hard to get out from under oppressive depression when we are focused inward. TL:DR -- the choice to commit suicide is typically made by people who are not in their right mind. Please try therapy and medication before making a final decision -- you have everything to lose. | ||
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cz
United States3249 Posts
On January 23 2012 05:15 Xiron wrote: How do you know I dont have any knowledge of suicide? My good neighbor and friend I grew up with hanged himself, after an argument with his wife. Negating the worst feeling one can have actually means feeling better. Because you know, 0 is still more than -10. Of course suicide is not an easy choice, but choosing it is still the stupid of the two one has. Because, as I said before, even the slightest chance for a better life is much better than no life. And, as I said before, I don't say that people who commit suicide are stupid, but suicide itself is stupid. Driving drunk is stupid, too. Having unprotected sex with unknowns is stupid. Just because suicide may have a bigger effect on the person, it doesn't get any better. If you've never felt suicidal yourself, you don't understand it. I was suicidal for a bit and have recently been in the psych ward on a 14-day hold (can't leave). Whoever said that "it feels as though the problem is you, it's internal and it can't ever be fixed no matter how yourt circumstances change and you don't want to waste your loved one's time by trying to get help" nailed it. That's exactly how I felt. | ||
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Mr. Black
United States470 Posts
The problem is that the disease of depression messes with our sense of proportion -- we can't shut out the negative and focus on the positive. Negativity is almost always intellectually honest and defensible, but getting help will likely lead to you developing tools to find something(s) to live for. | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On January 23 2012 07:05 cz wrote: If you've never felt suicidal yourself, you don't understand it. I was suicidal for a bit and have recently been in the psych ward on a 14-day hold (can't leave). Whoever said that "it feels as though the problem is you, it's internal and it can't ever be fixed no matter how yourt circumstances change and you don't want to waste your loved one's time by trying to get help" nailed it. That's exactly how I felt. I think you two are discussing different things. Xiron is saying that the decision to kill yourself is stupid. You, for instance, did the smart, good thing in not killing yourself. There's no shame in saying so. Let yourself be proud of the fact that you overcame what must have been a difficult time of your life. Saying that suicide is stupid would be entirely unhelpful in a situation where someone is actually suicidal, of course. It would only reinforce the feelings of hopelessness, worthlessness, and carelessness the person would be experiencing. But Xiron is not currently in that situation, so he seems to just be approaching it from a sane, logical mind. Which is fine, as long as he understands that it is not appropriate behavior if he's actually dealing with someone with suicidal thoughts. Edit: Best title change evar lol | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
While the dead person may think he doesn't, it would still be negative outcome for the dead person's family and loved ones. Dead people don't think. Yeah, it's not fun for the people who wanted him or her alive, but you don't own other people. The UN has frowned on slavery for kind of awhile now  It also sucks when someone you like moves away and can't contact you anymore, but we don't feel morally appalled by that (unless we are incredibly selfish).If you cross anyone who seems to be suicidal, tell them that suicide is the right thing to do. Tell them death will be much better than living. Because if you do that, you preach what you truly believe in, so that atleast you can live a happy life. That is a dumb argument. Just because you can accept the choices of people who've committed suicide doesn't mean that you will encourage them to commit suicide. It doesn't even mean that you won't try to make them feel better and see other options. It's just a matter of respecting that you don't own other human beings. In my country if you know someone wants to commit suicide, you can actually call the police and the suicidal person will lose their rights of mobility and be forced into treatment, drugs or otherwise. That's really quite frightening, if you ask me. It has nothing to do with helping the person, and everything to do with helping the people around them and society at large. If you don't consent to help before you've been drugged or heavily coerced (with threats against your freedom), then it's not really consent anymore. In many other situations such coercion would invalidate the consent, legally, but in this case we allow it. Why? Because this is the only way we can get people to actively function in a society which is not fit for them. | ||
fusefuse
Estonia4644 Posts
On January 23 2012 05:59 Megaliskuu wrote: lol @ title change xD this made the blog so much better 2/5 now | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On January 23 2012 03:15 DoubleReed wrote: + Show Spoiler + On January 23 2012 02:20 Xiron wrote: Just imagine telling a fat person that their decision to eat a BigMac is stupid. If you're ok with that then you should realize that telling a suicidal person that 'suicide is stupid' is true. They are not doing anyone a favor; neither by eating the 1000th BigMac nor taking their own lives. The fat person will think he will feel better after that burger but in reality he'll only get fatter. The suicidal person thinks he will feel better after suicide but in reality he will only cease to exist. People are getting offended because calling a suicidal person stupid would probably only make the issue worse. I mean if the person really thinks they are worthless and you call them stupid, then you aren't helping. You're making them feel worse about themselves. I don't think people are getting offended because the decision itself is intelligent or stupid. They're saying this is absolutely the worse mindset if you ever have to deal with a suicidal person. Although "stupid" is probably incorrect anyway. I don't think it's an intelligence thing. Smart people are still vulnerable to a lot of illogical, irrational, and biased thinking. People, even smart people, aren't the best judges of their own situations. This is only true if the dead person has absolutely no one that he himself cares about. While the dead person may think he doesn't, it would still be negative outcome for the dead person's family and loved ones. If he cares about someone, and then they are harmed emotionally by the suicide, then it would still be a negative outcome for the dead person. The person is dead there are no more outcomes. Unless of course you believe that, that which ceases to exist can still have feelings. Our difference in opinion might be because are aren't on the same page. Your looking at the net result of suicide from the perspective of a community and i'm looking at it from the perspective of that which has no community. | ||
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TheToast
United States4808 Posts
On January 23 2012 02:22 Barrin wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=305388 and history I love that this guy thought he was a controversial member of TL. Talk about not having a fucking clue. Knowing that he did the same stupid shit on GosuGamers, it's almost a little sad. Guy has nothing better to do than go from site to site epically failing at trolling. Also was that title edit from Chill? | ||
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TheAntZ
Israel6248 Posts
On January 23 2012 06:06 Megaliskuu wrote: Most don't, sadly , would be much more fun if they did.It'd be much less fun to browse this site if they did. No-nonsense, strict mods keep shitposters like myself to a minimum  | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On January 23 2012 09:18 ShadeR wrote: The person is dead there are no more outcomes. Unless of course you believe that, that which ceases to exist can still have feelings. Our difference in opinion might be because are aren't on the same page. Your looking at the net result of suicide from the perspective of a community and i'm looking at it from the perspective of that which has no community. Well no. Let's say I'm suicidal. I have a mom and dad. They care about me and I care about them. If I kill myself, my mom and dad gets sad. That's bad from my perspective, because I care about my parents. I don't want my parents to feel sad. Sure, I'm dead at that point, so my wants and desires don't really count, but we're talking about the decision itself, at which point I'm still alive. I don't really understand how you have a perspective without community. Most of our lives is how we deal with our communities. How could you possibly take that out of the equation? No human, suicidal or not, would ever consider that. | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On January 23 2012 11:15 DoubleReed wrote: Well no. Let's say I'm suicidal. I have a mom and dad. They care about me and I care about them. If I kill myself, my mom and dad gets sad. That's bad from my perspective, because I care about my parents. I don't want my parents to feel sad. Sure, I'm dead at that point, so my wants and desires don't really count, but we're talking about the decision itself, at which point I'm still alive. I don't really understand how you have a perspective without community. Most of our lives is how we deal with our communities. How could you possibly take that out of the equation? No human, suicidal or not, would ever consider that. uhh the dead have no community? | ||
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Hikko
United States1126 Posts
Entirely false | ||
Risen
United States7927 Posts
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Kanil
United States1713 Posts
On January 23 2012 11:15 DoubleReed wrote: Well no. Let's say I'm suicidal. I have a mom and dad. They care about me and I care about them. If I kill myself, my mom and dad gets sad. That's bad from my perspective, because I care about my parents. I don't want my parents to feel sad. Sure, I'm dead at that point, so my wants and desires don't really count, but we're talking about the decision itself, at which point I'm still alive. I don't really understand how you have a perspective without community. Most of our lives is how we deal with our communities. How could you possibly take that out of the equation? No human, suicidal or not, would ever consider that. Yes, but you're suffering. You have a choice to make, you can continue to suffer, to live only to avoid harming your parents... or you can end your suffering, and in turn bring sadness to your family. You have to choose between dying for yourself, or living so others don't have to be pained by your death. It is hard to justify living for other people, when you do not live for yourself. | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On January 23 2012 12:59 Kanil wrote: Yes, but you're suffering. You have a choice to make, you can continue to suffer, to live only to avoid harming your parents... or you can end your suffering, and in turn bring sadness to your family. You have to choose between dying for yourself, or living so others don't have to be pained by your death. It is hard to justify living for other people, when you do not live for yourself. That was not the question. It was whether or not death is a neutral outcome or a negative outcome. It's clearly a negative outcome. Saying that living is also a negative outcome does not matter. Look, try to think of it is a utility-function-wise as possible. Clearly the sadness you bring to others is going to be on the bad side, regardless of whether you are still living to care. Clearly any possible future happiness you are giving up is on the negative side. Any perceived terrible things you have going on in your life that will end is on the positive side. That's all I'm saying. | ||
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Mothra
United States1448 Posts
On January 23 2012 13:20 DoubleReed wrote: That was not the question. It was whether or not death is a neutral outcome or a negative outcome. It's clearly a negative outcome. Saying that living is also a negative outcome does not matter. Look, try to think of it is a utility-function-wise as possible. Clearly the sadness you bring to others is going to be on the bad side, regardless of whether you are still living to care. Clearly any possible future happiness you are giving up is on the negative side. Any perceived terrible things you have going on in your life that will end is on the positive side. That's all I'm saying. If death were to end your pain, how is it "clearly a negative outcome"? It has the negative aspect of hurting your loved ones, but that doesn't mean it is only negative. "Any future happiness given up" is outweighed by future pain given up in the view of the suicidal person. | ||
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