EPTOn September 22 2011 19:24 Dante08 wrote:
Thats cause you haven watched or played BW.
Thats cause you haven watched or played BW.
I have, but not as much as SC2.
A message to SotG from a BW Fan - Page 6
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Sotamursu
Finland612 Posts
I have, but not as much as SC2. | ||
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Jenia6109
Russian Federation1613 Posts
On September 22 2011 18:59 Sotamursu wrote: No. By my logic you can't say checkers is a shitty game because chess is harder. Actually you're analogy is still bad. BW requires better mechanics. Moving wooden pieces isn't any harder no matter what you play. Checkers have much less skill-cap then Chess thats what i want to say And i dont want to say that Checkers are shitty but i cant say that it's a GREAT game | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
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OmniEulogy
Canada6600 Posts
On September 22 2011 22:09 avilo wrote: SC2 commentators should stop using the production tabs and such. But i doubt it will matter, with SC2 it's usually pretty easy to see "who's ball is bigger." lol. I remember when Penguin Plug was introduced and it totally rocked the foundation for casting or just playing in general. Ohhhhhhh man nostalgia! | ||
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MattyClutch
United States711 Posts
On September 22 2011 22:09 avilo wrote: SC2 commentators should stop using the production tabs and such. But i doubt it will matter, with SC2 it's usually pretty easy to see "who's ball is bigger." lol. I listen to SOTG on my morning commute and I haven't gotten to this part yet. Why is that so bad? I have seen it said a lot, but it has never bothered me. I like insightful casting more than simple play by play and I see it as nothing more than a tool to help with that. | ||
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ceaRshaf
Romania4926 Posts
On September 22 2011 05:43 Cruncharoo wrote: Thorzain vs Naniwa final in TSL3 was an unforgettable final Agree. But I come to think of it that's the only one I remember being good. And I follow ESPORTs. | ||
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MattyClutch
United States711 Posts
On September 22 2011 23:04 ceaRshaf wrote: Agree. But I come to think of it that's the only one I remember being good. And I follow ESPORTs. As I mentioned earlier, I thought the NASL grand finals were great. | ||
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
On September 22 2011 22:51 MattyClutch wrote: I listen to SOTG on my morning commute and I haven't gotten to this part yet. Why is that so bad? I have seen it said a lot, but it has never bothered me. I like insightful casting more than simple play by play and I see it as nothing more than a tool to help with that. Basically, the argument is that it takes the suspense and the tension away. In BW, heroic comebacks were pretty common, and just because you looked out of it didn't mean that you couldn't come back with a few strategic victories. It was also commonplace in BW commentating that there weren't a lot of indicators as to who was winning. There was the resource tab and supply indicators, but a lot of times people just don't pay attention to those. That made things exciting because there was a lot more suspense about who was coming out on top. But in SC2, it's a lot more focused on those production tabs. It takes away the suspense of how the game is going because all you really need to look at is the supply indicators to know... Yeah ____ is going to win, he's 50 supply ahead, this game is over. OR Yeah, he's producing 50000 hydralisks from his larvae injected hatcheries, let's count them. It takes the fun out of observing a Zerg increase his drone production rather than building say....zerglings to defend an early zealot attack or seeing a Zerg open up three hatch muta but then throws down a den, and when you see hydralisks pop out instead of mutas, you go HOLY SHIT. In SC2 all of that is preempted. At least that's what Nony argued. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On September 22 2011 23:04 ceaRshaf wrote: Agree. But I come to think of it that's the only one I remember being good. And I follow ESPORTs. All I remember from that final is someone killing his own pylon which cancelled his collosus and collusus range upgrade at the same time and I was like "wow what a noobfest." There was nothing really interesting about it other than that it was Team Liquid's own thing. The players themselves were incredibly boring. | ||
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ceaRshaf
Romania4926 Posts
On September 22 2011 23:23 Chef wrote: All I remember from that final is someone killing his own pylon which cancelled his collosus and collusus range upgrade at the same time and I was like "wow what a noobfest." There was nothing really interesting about it other than that it was Team Liquid's own thing. The players themselves were incredibly boring. Don't want to hype the event that it was, but Thorzain holding off like that didn't give you nerdchills? Naniwa staking it all in a bo1 for 15k with an ALL IN was boring? Edit: Also Chill lagging didn't gave a memorable moment? | ||
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
I clearly don't have the same expectations as SC2 people. I thought NaDa's 4-3 win against the other korean terran last MLG was horrible (and I was watching because of NaDa), and yet people were liking it. I just don't get it. | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50749 Posts
On September 22 2011 23:32 corumjhaelen wrote: What I remeber from TSL final were like 2-3 decent games at the beginning, and then absolutely terrible play in the following sets. Only kept watching because it was TL and I was watching with a friend -_- I clearly don't have the same expectations as SC2 people. I thought NaDa's 4-3 win against the other korean terran last MLG was horrible (and I was watching because of NaDa), and yet people were liking it. I just don't get it. BW does that to us,but at the same time I watch SC2 with an open mind because while it is essentially the same its a completely different game design resulting different gameplay,still not the most impressed with what I see. | ||
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r_con
United States824 Posts
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
On September 23 2011 00:08 BLinD-RawR wrote: BW does that to us,but at the same time I watch SC2 with an open mind because while it is essentially the same its a completely different game design resulting different gameplay,still not the most impressed with what I see. I think you have a point, but since I have seen a few SC2 games that I quite liked (I remember a nice ZvP on Metalopolis at one MLG I think), I'm less inclined to believe it. BUt yeah, I think the game design encourages boring strategies too. | ||
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Xenocide_Knight
Korea (South)2625 Posts
On September 22 2011 16:40 Sotamursu wrote: I don't think SC2 is boring or an easy game. Sure it might not be as hard as BW, but that doesn't make it any less of a great game. I'm sure the quality of games will rise even higher as people become even better than before. Same with BW but at a faster rate eh? The only thing holding people back in BW is physical limitation, sc2 from what I've seen has pretty much hit a skill cap already. (A reasonable one I mean.) Not being a huge BW fan, since I was mostly introduced to the scene through SC2 beta, most of the comments on this thread seem biased. Of course SC2 is going to be a game with no micro/easy macro/boring to watch etc, if you've already decided that's the way it is. It's the exact opposite of that. I mean, right when sc2 was announced, people here (who were obviously all BW fans) went crazy. Hell, who didn't? BW was on a steady rise, as was esports, and sc2 was the perfect final step in turning Starcraft into a global phenomenon. (We were seeing that already with the TSL). I can't speak for everyone but I was so damn excited to play the beta. I tried so hard to love sc2. My friend and I played so much, literally alternating living at each others houses and following the wakeup-play sc2-eat-sleep schedule. Eventually, we both got to #1 diamond (highest league) and we looked at each other and basically had this conversation. "dude.. this was.. fun.." "yea...." "..." "Is it just me or were none of those hundreds of games actually that great?" "It's kinda like BW but worse in everyway" "yea, I mean it's not a bad game..." "..." "It'll get better man, it's just beta." "Yea, sc2's going to be so sweet, I'm super pumped for the release" If you can't see the difference between microing your units in engagements and not, I don't know what game you are watching. There is a difference but it's pathetic really. "Oh god, look at that sick stalker micro!" Really? In BW, even lowly D+ players are chided for not microing at that level, and now we're freaking out because a "pro" is doing it? The fact that it's unusual to see stalker blink micro is sad to begin with. "Oh man, what a sick marine split! He took on all those banelings!" Yea, ok. I've seen more impressive marine splits vs lurkers from a C+ player. (in regards to the iconic Foxer/Kyrx game) | ||
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konadora
Singapore66358 Posts
honestly i do want to see some good SC2 games, but even then, personally, BW is and forever will be the best | ||
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blabber
United States4448 Posts
it's really not a matter of just watching BW. you really have to understand WHY it is so great. It's kind of hard to explain because you kind of have to play and understand both BW and SC2 at a relatively high level to truly appreciate the differences in BW and SC2. Ask anyone with this level of understanding and they will tell you that BW is much more interesting to watch | ||
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blubbdavid
Switzerland2412 Posts
On September 23 2011 00:44 Xenocide_Knight wrote: Same with BW but at a faster rate eh? The only thing holding people back in BW is physical limitation, sc2 from what I've seen has pretty much hit a skill cap already. (A reasonable one I mean.) It's the exact opposite of that. I mean, right when sc2 was announced, people here (who were obviously all BW fans) went crazy. Hell, who didn't? BW was on a steady rise, as was esports, and sc2 was the perfect final step in turning Starcraft into a global phenomenon. (We were seeing that already with the TSL). Exactly. I almost fell out of my chair when I visited Blizzards website just for fun back in 2007 and then saw that awesome trailer, announcing the sequel of my beloved game. I have been following the development since. In the end, I am disappointed. Just disappointed. | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
On September 22 2011 23:29 ceaRshaf wrote: Don't want to hype the event that it was, but Thorzain holding off like that didn't give you nerdchills? Naniwa staking it all in a bo1 for 15k with an ALL IN was boring? Edit: Also Chill lagging didn't gave a memorable moment? I assume you are talking about game 7 of the TSL3. No it didn't(it wasn't boring though) because how engagements happened was still just 2 guys 1a-ing each other with giant balls of bio love(or a protoss death ball) and press T and E for win. Not to mention that Naniwa floated 1500 minerals. There was no impressive micro to speak off, only that Thorzain wedged inself into a nice position(which is pre-battle and not in-battle). Moreover, it didn't have multipronged attacks and action all over the map but its more of a I am here you are there and we meet somewhere in the middle with our giant forces. There was no action all over the map, since then there have been much better games in my opinion. The thing which was nice about the TSL was that it was a community driven event. What I have found impressive in SC2 so far is only Marine splitting and Storm dodging(I think I saw Puma beat the shit out of Mana with some incredible(it probably wouldn't even matter but still it did happen) storm dodging. The things I like about SC2 has more to do with the players itself then the game, I am a fan of Boxer and therefore I root for any SlayerS (Terran teehee), aswell as Nada and July and White-Ra(more gg=more skill) and especially Hero, but thats cause he looks slightly like Jaedong. Also what I miss is the storylines, however that is most likely due to the fact that SC2 hasn't been out that long(and as such storylines are not devolped yet) and on top of that its like, he won X big tournament, ow cool....see you in whatever is literally next week or month. But yes, the production tabs take away much of the suspense but the thing is what are you going to do about it?Intentionally not use the production tabs?that would be kind of off. Also, the thing about BW is not that not only is it visually impressive(clarity wise) once you understand how fucking hard it is to actually micro units(which admittedly has to do somewhat with the flawed IU) and macro units at the same time(with no MBS etc) then you understand my fucking god these guys are good. In order to understand why BW is such a good (spectatorship) game you need to understand the game much better, which is actually a problem. Ow and due to the nature of the game, supply discrepancy's even when you could see them means alot less then in SC2 due to having many units which can turn the tide in favor of you while being very supply efficient for cost(Lurkers, vultures, HTs etc). | ||
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
When Sc2 was announced, I was ecstatic! I followed everything through the production evolution of the game, and so on. I got the beta the minute it came out, and played the crap out of it. I even played in an MLG event, (albeit horribly, lol). I wanted this game to be awesome, and to replace BW. I wanted it to succeed. But after just a few months... I got bored of it. Winning a game didn't feel satisfying. Many of my losses felt like bullshit. You just don't get that "rush" you do in BW when you know you're outplaying someone. I quickly lost interest even in watching sc2 games. It's just dull... imo of course. Nothing can compare to the atmosphere of BW, either in game or the pro scene. edit: And the casters try to over-hype stuff. "NICE STORMS OH MY GOD AMAZING STORMS!" Really? Because he selected his whole army, and spammed t+click all over the enemy ball, (which is on a-move and makes no attempt to spread out) "INCREDIBLE EMPS GOING DOWN SO NICE" Really? You just mash e and click everywhere. Same with force fields and fungal etc. | ||
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