MVP was kinda A-class i think and he actually won at least one game vs Flash (in MSL)
LOL What the HELL is your definition of A CLASS player?!?!?!?!!?
Here is what A class player is.
Jangbi Fantasy Hydra Leta Sea Zero and etc
Since there is only 4 S class (maybe 5) players as in Flash Jaedong Bisu Stork and pre-retirement Effort
MVP would be considered like C class, hes lifetime 50% player and hes way worse than players like Snow, Turn, Soulkey, Movie, etcetc who would be considered B class players.
At this moment i really dont think so. Overall yes but top level players are kinda the same. I mean of course Flash > MVP and Jaedong >>> NesTea but SC2 doesnt offer too much for player to show. I think if Flash and Jaedong would switch to SC2 they will be kinda similar to MVP and Nestea in this game.
SC2 is more limited in skill-dependence, that's what i want to say.Last edit: 2011-09-21 22:05:57
I disagree. RTS isnt all about mechanics. The reason why TBLS reigns over all is not only cuz theyre better at micro macro, but their understanding of the game, intelligence, mind games and sheer brilliance.
comparing Flash to MVP from bw to SC2 is like comparing Lebron to a regular NBA Small forward and telling them to play in college basketball...
On September 21 2011 15:26 CaucasianAsian wrote: BW seemed all about micro and unit positioning of your entire army. SC2 to me, feels almost like a complete 180.
concussive shells: lol u wanted to micro against a terran? colossus: rofl sup hydra i dont need micro. or a good storm. sentrys: rofl sup force fields mean i can control the terrain. you shall not pass! infestor: rofl u thought plague sucked? try maelstrom + plague. oh it's also mad cheap and you don't need to research it! broodlord: rofl u thought guardians were bad? how about tiny zerglings being shot from one. rofl sup.
sigh..... that's what we get from the company that created command and conquer 4.
This post is the truth. From day 1, SC2 was doomed to be more boring than BW, and the oldschool forumers here have been hypothesising about and discussing this since before the beta.
pretty much nothing more to contribute in gameplay differences, but one thing independent of gameplay that sc2 lacks is prestige.
there's like a "major" sc2 tournament every damn week it seems, from mlg to eswc to ipl to nasl to gsl to whatever you want. Two or three years into the scene a win at mlg #7, gsl #5, etc isn't going to be super memorable or prestigious.
it's good for the players in prize pool winnings, but less impressive for the fans and for individual production values. I always reference the osl/msl intro thread for threads like these; each tournament had awesome unique/creative intros, whereas any generic sc2 tournament X can out up a neat graphic but it's not the same hype feeling. Prestige/history makes the viewer more interested and more hyped up.
MVP was kinda A-class i think and he actually won at least one game vs Flash (in MSL)
LOL What the HELL is your definition of A CLASS player?!?!?!?!!?
Yo man calm down. He took a game off Flash in the MSL Ro16 (or Ro8? I forgot already). He was Woongjin's T ace (lolololololol woongjin terrans lololololololol). C class? Not really--he was at least a mediocre A-teamer (though I guess that's "B-minus-class" or whatever).
Anyway, I might want to actually watch this broadcast hmm...
MVP was kinda A-class i think and he actually won at least one game vs Flash (in MSL)
LOL What the HELL is your definition of A CLASS player?!?!?!?!!?
Yo man calm down. He took a game off Flash in the MSL Ro16 (or Ro8? I forgot already). He was Woongjin's T ace (lolololololol woongjin terrans lololololololol). C class? Not really--he was at least a mediocre A-teamer (though I guess that's "B-minus-class" or whatever).
Anyway, I might want to actually watch this broadcast hmm...
The BW stuff starts at around an hour and seven minutes in.
Gave a lot of good insight (some I've heard before), but it was good hearing a lot of these nostalgic comments coming out.
On September 21 2011 16:27 tree.hugger wrote: Mmmm someone asked me the other day what my favorite starcraft final was, and I said; Flash vs EffOrt, obviously, and they said that they had meant Sc2 final. And that stumped me, because really, I can name a handful of BW series that stick in my mind as ridiculously entertaining, but no Sc2 finals.
Lots of interesting SC2 finals: DIMAGA vs Mana, Naama vs Mana, DRG vs Thorzain, DRG vs sC, and that's only from the first year, there will be plenty more.
Interesting... maybe but there is no history behind them. There is no tragedy and no emotions. Just tournamets played for few days.
Well that isn't something you can just make. That will take time to develop.
On September 21 2011 15:26 CaucasianAsian wrote: BW seemed all about micro and unit positioning of your entire army. SC2 to me, feels almost like a complete 180.
concussive shells: lol u wanted to micro against a terran? colossus: rofl sup hydra i dont need micro. or a good storm. sentrys: rofl sup force fields mean i can control the terrain. you shall not pass! infestor: rofl u thought plague sucked? try maelstrom + plague. oh it's also mad cheap and you don't need to research it! broodlord: rofl u thought guardians were bad? how about tiny zerglings being shot from one. rofl sup.
sigh..... that's what we get from the company that created command and conquer 4.
On September 21 2011 16:27 tree.hugger wrote: Mmmm someone asked me the other day what my favorite starcraft final was, and I said; Flash vs EffOrt, obviously, and they said that they had meant Sc2 final. And that stumped me, because really, I can name a handful of BW series that stick in my mind as ridiculously entertaining, but no Sc2 finals.
Lots of interesting SC2 finals: DIMAGA vs Mana, Naama vs Mana, DRG vs Thorzain, DRG vs sC, and that's only from the first year, there will be plenty more.
Interesting... maybe but there is no history behind them. There is no tragedy and no emotions. Just tournamets played for few days.
Well that isn't something you can just make. That will take time to develop.
I don't know, like Incontrol I'm skeptical it ever will develop with Sc2's "hey look a new tournament every week" structure.
I get bored out of my mind watching sc2 most of time, some of the finals mentioned in this thread was "dimaga vs mana" I almost fell asleep. Lol production tab in sc2..
One little thing I don't like in sc2 tournaments is that they seem to prefer bo7 finals (and semifinals). It makes the first games less meaningful and uninteresting. The shorter series also allows players to focus and create a special strategy for the occasion. In bo7 that kind of preparation usually doesn't pay off because winning one map is less meaningful. Instead players are better off just fine-tuning their fundamentals and doing the same thing over and over.
On September 22 2011 03:22 laguu wrote: One little thing I don't like in sc2 tournaments is that they seem to prefer bo7 finals (and semifinals). It makes the first games less meaningful and uninteresting. The shorter series also allows players to focus and create a special strategy for the occasion. In bo7 that kind of preparation usually doesn't pay off because winning one map is less meaningful. Instead players are better off just fine-tuning their fundamentals and doing the same thing over and over.
well the community wanted it because of all the cheese in early tournaments. but i have to agree...back to osl/msl style
sc2 would be better off if there were less tournaments. Or at least big ones. With major titles getting handed out every week or two. A players time in the sun is short. In bw there were 2 tournaments. And when a player would win one. He would be the best for a couple of months until next osl or msl came around.
On September 22 2011 03:16 Ares[Effort] wrote: I get bored out of my mind watching sc2 most of time, some of the finals mentioned in this thread was "dimaga vs mana" I almost fell asleep. Lol production tab in sc2..
While I played a lot of Brood War I didn't watch much of it. I couldn't tell you why, but it always felt super slow to me. I mean the tight micro was always interesting, but the games overall weren't as much. I would generally tab out a lot and go back when I thought I heard excitement. SC2 games (unless say Goody is playing) always feel really fast paced to me - though I would be hard pressed to explain why. I also find that the fact that almost everything has English casts another huge boon.
SC2 has had some great games, NASL finals as an example. Dunno if it is fair to compare good games from a 1 year old game to good games from a 13 year old game.
That said it may just be a personal pref kind of thing. Some people liking one more than the other. I do hope we see the reaver and the vulture (or something similar) make a return, but I also think people haven't totally figured out the current units. I mean watch some games from 6-7 months ago and compare it to how people play now, a lot has changed.
*As a footnote on my BW watching, I had moved on to other games before 1/2 of the awesome games I hear about were played. If I had stayed on a bit longer I might have a totally different opinion.
That said it may just be a personal pref kind of thing. Some people liking one more than the other. I do hope we see the reaver and the vulture (or something similar) make a return, but I also think people haven't totally figured out the current units. I mean watch some games from 6-7 months ago and compare it to how people play now, a lot has changed.
Oh man, reavers made me hold my breath with every scarab.
It's the game. Screaming fangirls and higher skill levels don't hurt, but the truth is that BW's engine and UI limitations make for a much better spectator experience. Watching a 200/200 bioball of marines and marauders clumped together shoulder to shoulder like penguins, all being micro'd on 1 hotkey will never be epic. It'll never look like war.
Meh. I'm tempted to go into some long rant about the lack of moving shot and the design of units like the colossus but it's all been said before. All we can hope is that Blizzard does a good job with the expansions and that, if they don't, BW outlives its inferior sequel.
I have to go along with this preparation thing. You guys gotta realize how cool it was in that OSL finals. Jangbi basically SUPER meta-ed Fantasy in so many ways.
On September 22 2011 03:22 laguu wrote: One little thing I don't like in sc2 tournaments is that they seem to prefer bo7 finals (and semifinals). It makes the first games less meaningful and uninteresting. The shorter series also allows players to focus and create a special strategy for the occasion. In bo7 that kind of preparation usually doesn't pay off because winning one map is less meaningful. Instead players are better off just fine-tuning their fundamentals and doing the same thing over and over.
If I recall, a korean post made a comment that the GSL finals were of lower quality more because of the longer prep times, that resulted in fine-tuned 1-sided games when compared to events like MLG.
EPT
