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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
On September 25 2011 11:21 Kipsate wrote: About excitement and all that What we Truth,OGN's production just made it so enjoying to watch SC2. | ||
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Oreo7
United States1647 Posts
On September 21 2011 15:26 CaucasianAsian wrote: BW seemed all about micro and unit positioning of your entire army. SC2 to me, feels almost like a complete 180. concussive shells: lol u wanted to micro against a terran? colossus: rofl sup hydra i dont need micro. or a good storm. sentrys: rofl sup force fields mean i can control the terrain. you shall not pass! infestor: rofl u thought plague sucked? try maelstrom + plague. oh it's also mad cheap and you don't need to research it! broodlord: rofl u thought guardians were bad? how about tiny zerglings being shot from one. rofl sup. sigh..... that's what we get from the company that created command and conquer 4. You could do this exact thing to BW from an SC2 perspective, you're not offering any real argumentation, you're just mindlessly ranting with more feelings and opinions than any real facts. Strawmanning and personifying abilities you don't like from sc2 in a critique of the game offers nothing to the discussion or the thread. | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
On September 25 2011 11:37 Oreo7 wrote: You could do this exact thing to BW from an SC2 perspective, you're not offering any real argumentation, you're just mindlessly ranting with more feelings and opinions than any real facts. Strawmanning and personifying abilities you don't like from sc2 in a critique of the game offers nothing to the discussion or the thread. While he words it rather poorly, there is truth to his words, there are alot of micro reducing abilities on Sc2 and units which have little micro with the removal of moving shot for practically every unit. Concussive shells-it slows your units, and you can't do anything to escape after that, it is anti-micro. Collosi are 1-a powerfull mobile siege units, they require little to no micro. Sentries force field ability is once again, anti-micro, if you are in it you can't do shit about it unless you have burrow for specific units(roaches) or massive units/dships. Force fields creates chokes and walls which are impenetrable and thus limit the movement and the micro of the opponent, it is one-side micro. Infestor: He is right, although its not as powerfull as plague, fungal frowth not only does excessive damage but is once again anti-micro, once you are fungalled you can't do anything to stop the damage from happening or move your army at all, it is once again onesided anti-micro ability. Broodlords: well thats just a difference. He does have a point although he words it rather poorly this way. All in all, there are alot of anti-micro abilities and units which require little micro to be used effectivly. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On September 25 2011 11:37 Oreo7 wrote: You could do this exact thing to BW from an SC2 perspective, you're not offering any real argumentation, you're just mindlessly ranting with more feelings and opinions than any real facts. Strawmanning and personifying abilities you don't like from sc2 in a critique of the game offers nothing to the discussion or the thread. Please try, I don't think you can. A lot of pros are frustrated with these units too because they're en masse abilities that aren't hard to pull off, and are impossible to prevent. Lockdown: The player using it has to figure out how to get his ghost in the perfect position and have the concentration to click in the right places. The player vs it can kill the ghost or run around. Concussive shells mean the terran just A-moves and the other player has to avoid combat until they have an overwhelming army because your units will be too slow to overcome any kind of odds. stasis: the player using it has to get their arbiters into position, has to click in the right places. The player vs it can use EMP or snipe it with goliaths while spreading tanks well. You can't prevent or guarentee all stasises, making it interesting. psi storm: kills a lot of lower tier units very quickly, but needs good hand speed and concentration to pull off especially if you want to do a lot of them. defending player spreads out as best he can and avoids clumping too much. In sc2 you can just spam t with your whole army selected and the counter micro I guess is ghosts with emp which is sort of ok I guess but neither are very interesting and as I recall storm is kinda weak in sc2. Reavers: take a lot of micro and precision and carrying around in shuttles to be effective. Must target effectively. Big reward when the scarb goes off right, but hard to use en-masse. Anti micro is sniping and good spreads and having the concentration to see it fly into the corner of your base so you can run your peons away. Collusus are units you just 1a with your whole army and the enemy can sorta spread I guess but micro with collusus is super basic since they can just walk on top of your army. Some kind of valk sniping or whatever exists, which is sorta neat but definitely a downgrade from the reaver and a little too basic to be interesting. dark swarm: zerg player attempts to get defilers into positions where they can cast swarms that are difficult to deal with, and terrans irradiate them and run away from them and push back asap for very interesting battles. I'm trying to think of spells in BW that are anti-micro and it's really hard to come up with any. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66224 Posts
On September 25 2011 11:26 BLinD-RawR wrote: Truth,OGN's production just made it so enjoying to watch SC2. i'm eagerly waiting for the next one hour to pass~~ edit: kipsate and chef are so damn spot-on. | ||
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
Stasis Field is a flying arbiter, tier 3 unit with a big arrow on it saying EMP/Kill me. and once again Stasis will only hit a few units due to the no clumping and the fact that good terrans spread out their tanks(both against storm and against Stasis Field). so.....well there is Lockdown I suppose and technically Ensnare. However Lockdown is an incredibly heavy gast investment and if you can pull off that fucking micro without smartcasting sucesfully while not losing all your ghosts(and thus your gas investment) then you deserve to win the game. As for Ensnare, I suppose technically it could be used more but Broodlings is much better against Mech and against High templars. Perhaps Queens could be used more in ZvP I suppose. | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On September 25 2011 01:21 MattyClutch wrote: I already addressed this argument earlier in the thread. Did you read it? Sounds like you just have some serious rose tinted goggles on. You have no idea what is going to come with HOTS and LOTV. Saying you know it won't change anything is silly. I very much doubt expansions will change how the game works mechanically. If they do then these expansions may as well be called SC3 and i'll happily give it a shot =]. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66224 Posts
On September 25 2011 11:56 Kipsate wrote: However Lockdown is an incredibly heavy gast investment and if you can pull off that fucking micro without smartcasting sucesfully while not losing all your ghosts(and thus your gas investment) then you deserve to win the game. boxer vs nal_ra...  | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
HiyA vs free too. | ||
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
Yeah But Hiya went 3(maybe 2?) port cloaked wraith with nukes against Protoss so.... I don't even know what he was thinking there. | ||
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Nible
Sweden85 Posts
I'm an SC2-player and I have never played Brood War in my life. I have the game but being left handed and stuff isn't very easy in a game where you can't remap hotkeys without certain programs (lulz). But as the fairly competetive SC2 player that I am I want a challenge when I play. Don't get me wrong, I'm only in Gold League and to judge from the time it has taken me to get there, it will probably take long before I become bored with it. But I can't help to think about what if it was Brood war I played, an incredibly hard game and so much skill required and I'd probably never be any good at it, always having the goal ahead of me. And how much fun wouldn't it be to watch those BW games everyone is talking about the epicness of? And actually understand them. I really wish that SC2 can become to me what BW seems to be to so many of you. That the game will evolve in such a way that it becomes that. Not by everything becoming exactly like BW because the game structure is different, that would be impossible, but that players will become so good and think of so many new possibilities that we will think of SC2 now as people think now of SC1 when it was 1 year old. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On September 25 2011 18:21 Nible wrote: I always get a bit depressed reading posts like this. Posts about how much more skill there was in BW. I'm an SC2-player and I have never played Brood War in my life. I have the game but being left handed and stuff isn't very easy in a game where you can't remap hotkeys without certain programs (lulz). But as the fairly competetive SC2 player that I am I want a challenge when I play. Don't get me wrong, I'm only in Gold League and to judge from the time it has taken me to get there, it will probably take long before I become bored with it. But I can't help to think about what if it was Brood war I played, an incredibly hard game and so much skill required and I'd probably never be any good at it, always having the goal ahead of me. And how much fun wouldn't it be to watch those BW games everyone is talking about the epicness of? And actually understand them. I really wish that SC2 can become to me what BW seems to be to so many of you. That the game will evolve in such a way that it becomes that. Not by everything becoming exactly like BW because the game structure is different, that would be impossible, but that players will become so good and think of so many new possibilities that we will think of SC2 now as people think now of SC1 when it was 1 year old. There's a lot of people who play BW and are left handed. I think most just use it normally (like a right handed person), but I've heard at least two reports of people who have the mouse in the left hand and say they think of it as an advantage (one a progamer, one just someone on this forum). So I dunno, being left handed is not much of an excuse. If your keyboard is your right hand you get to use your thumb to mash the a key and the like, whereas with the left hand your index and pinky fingers just have to be long enough to go from a to 0 because twisting the hand to use the thumb on the 0 key is bordering on hyperextension and is way too awkward. I don't know what you think the disadvantage is. | ||
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DoX.)
Singapore6164 Posts
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Xenocide_Knight
Korea (South)2625 Posts
On September 24 2011 04:27 MattyClutch wrote: One game has had years of play development and an expansion and the other has not. It is sort of a given. They don't really have a choice in the matter. 1999 StarCraft wouldn't compare well to current BW either. We should seriously compile of list of everyone who ever made this ridiculous argument and ignore all of their opinions in any thread that relates to both games. That along with this argument On September 24 2011 04:27 MattyClutch wrote: You have no idea what is going to come with HOTS and LOTV. Saying you know it won't change anything is silly. It's irrelevant what will come in the future, what matters is that currently, sc2 is garbage compared to BW. In all aspects. Except for maybe noob friendliness. Just because it might end up as the greatest game of all time 5 years down the road does not change the fact that it's not as good now. Just think about how ridiculous that is. What if a new vehicle (say, a hover craft) came out but wasn't as good as the car. "Oh, no. Keep using the hovercraft despite it being more expensive and inferior in all aspects. You have no idea, it'll be just as good as the car in like 5 years!" "But.. it's clearly worse right now. I don't see why you're trying to push it so hard." "No, dude. You're so biased. Like, compare the hovercraft to the car when it first came out. The hovercraft is so much better at release, and it can only get better in the future. The car had over a hundred years to develop, you can't expect the hovercraft to compare right now. You're just blinded by nostalgia. Stop living in the past. The car is dead, the hovercraft will replace it." "Whatever, I'm using my car. Tell me when the hovercraft becomes somewhat comparable, then I'll look into getting one" | ||
2Pacalypse-
Croatia9512 Posts
On September 26 2011 05:31 Xenocide_Knight wrote: It's irrelevant what will come in the future, what matters is that currently, sc2 is garbage compared to BW. In all aspects. Except for maybe noob friendliness. Just because it might end up as the greatest game of all time 5 years down the road does not change the fact that it's not as good now. Just think about how ridiculous that is. What if a new vehicle (say, a hover craft) came out but wasn't as good as the car. "Oh, no. Keep using the hovercraft despite it being more expensive and inferior in all aspects. You have no idea, it'll be just as good as the car in like 5 years!" "But.. it's clearly worse right now. I don't see why you're trying to push it so hard." "No, dude. You're so biased. Like, compare the hovercraft to the car when it first came out. The hovercraft is so much better at release, and it can only get better in the future. The car had over a hundred years to develop, you can't expect the hovercraft to compare right now. You're just blinded by nostalgia. Stop living in the past. The car is dead, the hovercraft will replace it." "Whatever, I'm using my car. Tell me when the hovercraft becomes somewhat comparable, then I'll look into getting one" Holy shit that's an excellent analogy. I'm using that one from now on  | ||
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Jenia6109
Russian Federation1612 Posts
On September 24 2011 05:31 SpoR wrote: Boxer was good and he smoked everyone, kinda like nestea. Grrr.... is like Huk , etc. It's not correct to compare current scene with old-school scene. Grrrr... won OSL back then. Huk is not near to win GSL. Boxer was number one Kespa for about 2 years, won 2 WCG in a row, there was no one better then him. Nestea is like one of 3 or 4 best players and is eliminated from WCG. On September 24 2011 05:31 SpoR wrote: Go back and watch some tourney finals from pre 2003 and tell me that their play isnt terrible. Yes, i watched those games recently. But i can confidently say that nor me nor you will beat one of them even today. | ||
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Jenia6109
Russian Federation1612 Posts
On September 24 2011 15:42 XXXSmOke wrote: If I could be as "good" as i am at sc2 at BW I would enjoy BW 1000x more. BW is just plain hard guys and while the pro games will always be epic, its just to damn hard for the Master league scrubs to play. It's absolute opposite for me. As someone said how can i be impressed of something that i can do myself? On September 25 2011 01:21 MattyClutch wrote: You have no idea what is going to come with HOTS and LOTV. Saying you know it won't change anything is silly. We say it because the core of WoL gameplay is wrong and this core will deliver to expansions obviously. | ||
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MattyClutch
United States711 Posts
On September 26 2011 05:31 Xenocide_Knight wrote: We should seriously compile of list of everyone who ever made this ridiculous argument and ignore all of their opinions in any thread that relates to both games. That along with this argument It's irrelevant what will come in the future, what matters is that currently, sc2 is garbage compared to BW. In all aspects. Except for maybe noob friendliness. Just because it might end up as the greatest game of all time 5 years down the road does not change the fact that it's not as good now. Just think about how ridiculous that is. What if a new vehicle (say, a hover craft) came out but wasn't as good as the car. "Oh, no. Keep using the hovercraft despite it being more expensive and inferior in all aspects. You have no idea, it'll be just as good as the car in like 5 years!" "But.. it's clearly worse right now. I don't see why you're trying to push it so hard." "No, dude. You're so biased. Like, compare the hovercraft to the car when it first came out. The hovercraft is so much better at release, and it can only get better in the future. The car had over a hundred years to develop, you can't expect the hovercraft to compare right now. You're just blinded by nostalgia. Stop living in the past. The car is dead, the hovercraft will replace it." "Whatever, I'm using my car. Tell me when the hovercraft becomes somewhat comparable, then I'll look into getting one" I could also try to be an elitist troll, but it wouldn't be in any way constructive. As I said earlier in the tread different people enjoy different things. I find SC2 much more enjoyable to watch than SC1, that in itself refutes your point. You and I simply like different things. Also you didn't in any way address my argument. You just dismissed it. I loved Brood War. I picked it up on a middle school field trip to Washington DC. I couldn't wait to get back and play it. I enjoyed it for years and watched a bit of it. However viewing Brood War was just never all that great for me, the enjoyment was in playing it. I moved on to other games and sometimes came back to play BW, but again I never really watched it (but I also never called it "garbage"). I saw what was there and while I recognized the skill involved it just wasn't for me. SC2 is different for me. I really enjoy watching it, though I do see the obvious skill gap. I do think that will improve with time. People haven't tried everything yet - that will take time. My mistake on hoping future changes and play development would help you enjoy SC2 as well. But troll on good sir. | ||
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JediGamer
United States656 Posts
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
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