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+ Show Spoiler +Placed in blogs as to not upset rabid Boxer fans and potentially get them banned
Dear TL, I would like to voice some opinions.
I will have to admit - the Boxer bandwagon has become somewhat annoying, somewhat depressing. As an iconic figure, there is little to argue against his popularity. But what is popularity without the achievements to back it up? Indeed, he was a truly inspirational BW player. To this day, I feel like no Terran has matched Boxer's micro orientated playstyle of which I absolutely loved to watch and made BW a certain kind of special during that era.
But what really bugs me is that for many SC2 players who have never even heard of Boxer until last year, they do not have a real understanding of the player behind the name, aside from the nonstop substance-less hype that commentators of all sorts attribute to the man.
It depresses me because the accomplishments of other players - Nada and July - go greatly overlooked because with the above, people just don't know much about them. Statistically, Nada matches or beats Boxer on sheer BW performance. While you cannot make a strict comparison between Nada and Boxer, as their playstyles are wildly different, you simply cannot ignore the achievements of the player, a 6 time champion.
And as a member of the swarm, I have forever been inspired by July. 3 time champion. The man who made me love mutaling. A man who I look up to as a brethren of endless zerg aggression. A person I still try to find replays of for SC2.
But as players, I place far more respect into Nada than I would ever place for Boxer; even for SC2, Boxer's SC2 play hasn't even been that impressive, with more cheesy/gimmicky play than anything. Again, compared to Nada, Nada has essentially remained in Code S for the entirety of GSL and has consistently reached playoffs (a predominant Ro8 finisher).
I will say though, Boxer's recent MLG performance is one we have not seen from him in all of his SC2 career. It looks very promising and indeed, I will have to wait to see how far he gets in the upcoming GSL with his newfound playstyle.
But again, he has to prove he is a performer; respect is earned - not given. Thank you for reading.
 
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Boxer isn't just a player he is an ambassador for e-sports, along with Yellow. There is a reason every year those two were the two highest voted players for the All-stars. Boxer's accomplishments in-game don't really compare to NaDa or Flash or iloveoov but his accomplishments outside, what he has done for the sport itself, are far and away above others.
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Have you seen Boxer?
He's THE figure of E-sports. It's not about how many wins he has. It's about his personality and charisma.
He's the god damn emperor, after all.
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People don't respect him for his performance in tournaments, people respect him for what he's done for ESPORTS, and that's something everyone who believe in ESPORTS should respect. He's done a lot for the community, and deserves all the love he's getting.
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Indeed. He's more than just a player, more than just a Starleague champion. He's the biggest icon E-sports has ever had, a true legend and one of the reasons why E-sports took off the way it did.
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Boxer have done more for eSports than any other player, you can't just look at the amount of tournaments won and say "Why is everyone hyping Boxer instead of Nada? This is unfair".
Of course hes not the best SC2 player, but his fans wants him to be and supports him as he competes and tries to accomplish that.
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On August 02 2011 01:38 a176 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Placed in blogs as to not upset rabid Boxer fans and potentially get them banned But again, he has to prove he is a performer; respect is earned - not given. Thank you for reading.
he created SC pro gaming. so he is respected because without that there would not be a starcraft 2, blizzard only created starcraft 2 because korea had all the profit from starcraft 1.
lim yo hwan fighting.
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One of the reasons why Boxer has been so influential to the community is because Boxer pioneered the modern 'team' system that is seen in South Korea. When Boxer competed on the Orion team (years and years ago), they offered him a contract on the basis that he was the only one on the team. He refused and the importance of teams and Proleague has only increased since.
You can read more about it here: http://senseofstar.blogspot.com/2006/11/slayersboxer.html
Furthermore, Boxer's excellence came not from his technical ability which many of the 'great' players were associated with, but through his creativity and his large array of strategies. Boxer pioneered so many different strategies and drew people in to watch him simply because of his creativity.
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There is more to him than just being an iconic figure/ex-bonjwa.
Slayers Terrans are some of the best T in the world because they come up with builds that will revolutionize matchups - and I believe Boxer has a large role in that.
Him and Jessica has put a lot of effort into the team and they are rightfully rewarded with GSTL championships. Someone who dedicated his life to make esports better (founding TT1/ACE/Slayers) deserves the respect and attention.
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I will give you some ESPORTS bucks for having the balls to post this.
(PS: respect for a player doesn't just come from their play)
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i'm in the Boxer bandwagon (even tho I follow him since his WCG vs Elky on that "island" green map (not really an isle map but your main had no ramp), not only because of his play, but just because of his attitude and the aura he got. He's just a great man.
Yeah, he's not the best sc2 player, but he still qualified for the open seasons, made a ro4, it's not like he's a bottom tier player either. Boxer interacts a lot more with the community, has founded his team, that's why you hear more about him than about July or Nada.
edit : I don't find the game on TLPD, which makes me doubt my memory as I can't even find the map. The map was on an all green tileset, 4 mains at 12 3 6 9, the mains were on a small height plateau with no ramp, you had a nat on the clockwise side iirc and there were "holes" with expos between each mains too.
ha ! it's hall of valhalla of course http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/maps/100_Hall_of_Valhalla
Seems there is no WCG games recorded on it, I was so sure it was an elky vs boxer game from an early WCG 
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
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You need to also note that Boxer created a team or no name GSTL double champions. All the players are now known.
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Accomplishments are generally one of the least things people look for to like a player. People look for players who are dedicated to the game and passionate about it, are really good, or are really unique/creative in their play. You can't blame anyone for liking someone because of that. Some people like Boxer really just in respect for what he has done for SCBW and that he has, at times,(especially at MLG) shown that he can play great games. He has before, one of my favorite series of the TSL was Boxer vs Sen. Basing who you root for based off of achievements is fine, but many people don't do that. Otherwise, Nestea, MVP, and MC would never have anyone rooting against them, but plenty of people do.
As for people not giving July and Nada credit for what they've done, both in BW and in SC2. I have to agree a bit, but they still do get more fans than many people in Code S. I root for July and Nada quite a bit, but Boxer just has something inspirational about him(at least to me) that makes me want him to win no matter what. I suppose many of the people who like him are just attracted to him because of that.
My respect is freely given to everyone, the only people who'll ever have to gain it are the ones who have lost it before.
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Because players like NaDa and July are less visible, and BoxeR is more myth and legend than man in the world of E-Sports.
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You don't understand... Boxer IS esports. The guy is like the original progamer.
If it wasn't for him, I'm seriously not sure if BW and SC2 would be near where they are today.
If you are familiar with the history of SC, you have no choice but to be freaking thankful for the existence of the human being named Lim Yo Hwan.... his SC2 skills are just a bonus and another excuse to yell his name with your entire lungs!
EDIT: it's kinda like if you were a devout Christian, but you said you respect St. Francis or St. Andrew more than Jesus Christ. It doesn't work that way...
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Boxer is one reason why e-sports even exist. Show goddamn respect to the emperor.
1 star blog post, you need to read up on how e-sports began. You sound pretty spoiled.
Boxer is more than just his gameplay. Without him persevering it could have much been harder for everyone else that followed.
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Back when BoxeR was the superstar player, the most accomplished, he refused sponsorships unless it included his entire teams and invested a lot of his own money into the proleague.
I think that alone is baller enough; He probably deserves more praise, not less.
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progaming as we know it today is not possible with boxer, so please if nothing else at least give him the respect he so deserves as pioneer.
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To say Boxer hasn't earned respect is the most ludicrous thing I've read today. It's not about his current ability as a player, it's about his history, past and current.
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BoxeR is BoxeR.
Old school players love him because of what he represents.
Newcomers are excited by the legacy.
If I just started to play basket, the first thing I would do is watching VODs of Michael Jordan, even if I only know his name and that he used to be the best, without actually knowing much about him.
edit : oh I also know he played for the Chicago Bulls. Right ?!
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Well, to be devil's advocate, I think he is pointing more toward those who support Boxer 'casually' without knowing any of the stuff above posters mentioned (if someone like that actually exists in meaningful amount), and that some of BW pros who crossed over might not be getting all attention they deserve because people's attention do not exist in infinite quantity.
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On August 02 2011 02:23 Mikilatov wrote:
To say Boxer hasn't earned respect is the most ludicrous thing I've read today. It's not about his current ability as a player, it's about his history, past and current.
Pretty much, Boxer is a living legend of E-SPORTS
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Because watching him surge through MLG was like watching his OSL So1 semi-finals comeback against Pusan.
Because seeing him happy makes us all happy.
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Theres so much wrong here, most of which I won't even touch.
But one thing I'll comment on-- what the hell is wrong with people new to the scene hearing hype about this living legend, then, being inspired to learn more about him, becoming fans even though they weren't "around" or "in the scene" or "there when it happened" at the time?
Its out of control elitist hipsterism with a dash of ignorance, and a not-so-subtle pinch of better-than-thou-because-I-KNOW-things-that-I-think-some-of-you-guys-don't.
I didn't follow broodwar. I got 'into' the competitive gaming scene recently. But I first knew about BoxeR from a bunch of korean exchange student friends I had back in 2001. We would play broodwar on the student residence LAN every single day. Does that make it okay for me to be a rabid boxer fan in whatever criteria exists in your mind?
Anyways, re: Nada/July its not like him being popular detracts from others' popularity.
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My favorite player in BW is Bisu.
My favorite player in SC2 is HuK or MC.
My favorite professional ever is Boxer.
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I may be new to the esports community but after i watched that Korean documentary on just boxers exploits in sc2 he gained a lot of respect from me.
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On August 02 2011 02:23 Mikilatov wrote:
To say Boxer hasn't earned respect is the most ludicrous thing I've read today. It's not about his current ability as a player, it's about his history, past and current.
This.
You talk about people overlooking NaDa's achievements, and then you completely overlook BoxeR's history. And I'm not even talking about his ability to micro.
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You should be informed before you write a blog. Seriously, oh, you must known so much since Nada had gained so many rewards. If you truly followed e-Sports since at least 2004, you would realize that Boxer was an iconic figure that led to one of the first sponsored teams in Korea and has done more since including creating a Starcraft team in the Korean Air Force.
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On August 02 2011 02:23 Mikilatov wrote:
To say Boxer hasn't earned respect is the most ludicrous thing I've read today. It's not about his current ability as a player, it's about his history, past and current.
Exactly. This blog comes from someone with no understanding of charisma or what makes a player great in any sport. Accomplishments are important, check. Boxer has 'em. On top of that is he's not a dick like Idra or someone, he doesn't whine, he's this cheerful, outgoing, lovable figure.
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In terms of achievements as a player, the guy is right. Nada is too much overlooked compared to BoxeR.
But BoxeR is a LOT more than just a player. He is an e-sports figure and there is no denial for that.
Thing is, BoxeR actually has a bandwagon among sc2 players, they see him as the destined killer of Brood War and think that SC2 will take over BW because of him. This attitude is disgusting and I hate that. As a person who watches and plays both games, I want both games to exist together.
And another thing, up until the MLG, he was no longer good enough as a player. It's not because of his age or anything of that sort, he was just not the old BoxeR anymore. During the BW days, there were people more mechanically skilled than BoxeR, yes. But he never got outsmarted, out-game sensed or outplayed by anyone (which has never happened to Nestea, who shines with his game sense and strategies rather than mechanical skills, he even has a nickname: Detective Zerg). In Sc2, until this MLG, we saw that. In code a, he just got outsmarted, out-game sensed and outplayed by a newcomer. But, it was quite different in the MLG and I hope he goes like that.
On August 02 2011 02:58 See.Blue wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 02:23 Mikilatov wrote:
To say Boxer hasn't earned respect is the most ludicrous thing I've read today. It's not about his current ability as a player, it's about his history, past and current. Exactly. This blog comes from someone with no understanding of charisma or what makes a player great in any sport. Accomplishments are important, check. Boxer has 'em. On top of that is he's not a dick like Idra or someone, he doesn't whine, he's this cheerful, outgoing, lovable figure.
1- There is no understanding of charisma. You just feel it, or you don't feel it, that's it. Respect and feeling the charisma is 2 different things, I respect boxer, but I don't "feel his charisma".
2- After 1.1.1 patch notes came out, he said that he might switch into random if Terran got nerfed a little more. Also, the only reason he played Terran in BW was guess what: A nerf to reavers. He started his BW career as a Protoss, he switched to Terran after reavers got nerfed. I don't say that he is a whiner or anything like that. But you can't outright say that "he doesn't whine".
EDIT: Typo and 5/5 for the blog.
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Katowice25012 Posts
On August 02 2011 01:38 a176 wrote:
Placed in blogs as to not upset rabid Boxer fans and potentially get them banned
Whats awesome is that even in blogs this is going to get a billion pages and spawn some serious arguments.
Based on pure performance in the booth you have a point, compared to other legends like NaDa and July he doesn't have much that differentiates him. Outside the booth is a totally different story.
He started a team from scratch that went on to win back to back GSTLs. He picked up a handful of dudes no one had ever heard of and molded them into a strong, cohesive unit. He told a slumping MMA to go and win Columbus and he did. He brought his men to fight in Anaheim and 3 of them placed Top 4.
His celebrity during his prime playing years reached a critical mass point that July and NaDa, for better or worse, never did. Maybe it's because he was the first to truly dominate, maybe it's because of his skills with the media and fans, I have no idea. I didn't come into SC until long after his peak. That point of fame carried over to SC2, and now when people speak of him in hushed tones it lets anyone new know that this man has something special others don't, even among those with golden mice or 87 month KeSPA streaks.
Just watch him on the stage, he is a man of confidence and swagger. He holds himself completely differently than any other progamer - as he should - and that is something people take away and remember. Him being the legend isn't tied to performance, fame and reverence are about qualities that can't be quantified.
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Katowice25012 Posts
On August 02 2011 02:56 kineSiS- wrote:
You should be informed before you write a blog. Seriously, oh, you must known so much since Nada had gained so many rewards. If you truly followed e-Sports since at least 2004, you would realize that Boxer was an iconic figure that led to one of the first sponsored teams in Korea and has done more since including creating a Starcraft team in the Korean Air Force.
I can personally confirm a176 has been following BW since the dawn of time.
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Didn't boxer join the Korean's equivalent of the Air Force for a while? Or am I thinking of someone else...
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Being a fan of a player has nothing to do with player skill, I mean, look at all the fans of those foreigners that got mad during MLG 
Jokinggg. Sorta.
We're not fans based on results, man.
EDIT for poster above me:
All Koreans have mandatory military service, BoxeR went into the military, and he was popular enough that created a military SC:BW team called Air Force ACE for him to play in while he was in the military. However, without good enough practice partners and not enough time to train, BoxeR kind of faded skill-wise in comparison to other players at that time.
MORE EDITS:
There's a mandatory comparison to Michael Jordan here, somewhere. He was a great, and he may not be one anymore (though, whatever, he's pretty damn awesome) but you'll still cheer for him because of his legacy. He was THE original SC all-star.
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On August 02 2011 03:21 Horuku wrote:
Didn't boxer join the Korean's equivalent of the Air Force for a while? Or am I thinking of someone else...
Every Korean male has mandatory military service. They have a Starcraft team called "Air Force Ace", in which Boxer played for.
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On August 02 2011 03:21 Horuku wrote:
Didn't boxer join the Korean's equivalent of the Air Force for a while? Or am I thinking of someone else...
compulsory military service in Korea. Everyone (almost) goes.
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On August 02 2011 03:23 emperorchampion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 03:21 Horuku wrote:
Didn't boxer join the Korean's equivalent of the Air Force for a while? Or am I thinking of someone else... Every Korean male has mandatory military service. They have a Starcraft team called "Air Force Ace", in which Boxer played for.
"Which BoxeR created" FTFY.
Another one of those "little" things people will remember him for.
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Not going to repeat what basically everyone else said (and they're right), but I will say that Boxer's ability as a SC2 player is quite underrated. The bandwagon of people who expect him to flop in every televised game he plays is actually greater than the bandwagon of his recent fans.
When you think about it, there are a lot of players of lesser ability who have just as many - if not more - fans on TL than Boxer does (such as most foreign players). Starting with a certain NA Zerg player whom Boxer absolutely dominated on the opening day of MLG Anaheim.
If Boxer with his entire history AND his current ability as a player doesn't deserve respect and admiration of the fans, then I don't think you can name more than 20 players who do.
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
You can say what you want about the band wagon, but we're here for a reason; BoxeR isn't just a player, but a legend. His somewhat underwhelming Sc2 performance isn't the reason I'm a fan. I'm a fan because he's The Emperor. BoxeR is a cool dude and an icon of e-sports. I spent hours and hours watching VoDs of his BW play, reading various writeups and bios about him, and what he did for BW, and I'm sure many others have as well.
Bandwagoner. Proudly.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DKuqo.png)
Rated 5/5 for being a courageous blog post
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As if his performance isn't better than most foreigners already. A lot of top koreans don't get as many fans as foreign players either. Boxer dominated at MLG and just barely lost to MMA.
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People have pointed out already many of the reasons why BoxeR should be respected and admired greatly by any Starcraft (BW/2) player, and for anybody who wants to understand why people say things like he 'invented ESPORTS' or call him the Original Progamer, you should read his autobiography.
A quote from the section 'Hope on the road less travelled':
I want to share my bloody tears with those who cry because the road they chose was too difficult, or those that gave up their dreams to take the road that was a little easier.
That sentence is so powerful. It shows his undeniable will, even from the very beginning. Like any great progamer or competitor he has a powerful desire to win, but that is not what this sentence is about. It is about the years of effort he has put in, and continues to put in, not in the name of winning, but in the name of competitive Starcraft and those who watch it.
Almost certainly, in the beginning, BoxeR wanted to show is skill, win tournaments and be cheered. But during his transition from pioneer to veteran his motivation for playing the game changed also. While the goal was the same - be sucessful, win tournaments, make fans cheer - BoxeR is motivated by a sense of duty, by a debt he feels he has to repay, to those who have cheered for him through his long tenure behind the monitor. He does not practice for individual fame or success. He practices so the people those who post here and elsewhere, make signs/cheerfuls, chant his name, and want him to succeed, won't be let down.
This takes nothing away from other amazing players who have also dedicated much of their lives to professional Starcraft. And I agree many newer fans can jump on a bandwagon of hype, without knowing much backstory. But instead of posts like this, maybe it would be better to make posts showcasing NaDa and Julyzerg and their achivements, so that others would know what they did and how high they climbed?
+ Show Spoiler +Yeah, the above was pretty mushy/sentimental, I just love the guy.
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mmm yeah i think maybe bw players wanna keep boxer to themselves. 'yeah i was there watching spunky[z-zone] vs limterrran on neo remote outpost' at the dawn of professional replays. and there's an inkling of 'this is our champion who we've watched through a decade of ups and downs, these newcomers who never saw his glory days don't have a place claiming to love him'. and of course, as you mentioned there are brood war legends who are perhaps equally notable (particularly july and nada) who don't get the coverage they deserve simply because they haven't received the same hype.
i would argue that both july and nada have more impressive brood war careers than boxer. on the other hand, boxer is responsible for so much, from iloveoov and SKT to SlayerS and its success in sc2. boxer is the man.
nonetheless, i don't agree that e-sports wouldn't exist without boxer. i'm not sure if this is just widely accepted hyperbole founded in boxer's early successes or if he in fact was so crucial to the development of the brood war scene in korea. there was yellow, garimto, and other early players who were also potential champions, although perhaps none of them (aside from yellow) showed charisma to rival boxer's.
although it's a little annoying, the boxer bandwagoning is probably good for the scene as a whole. he's the man people have been rallying around forever, and his presence in sc2 definitely lends something unique.
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On August 02 2011 03:14 Djagulingu wrote:
Thing is, BoxeR actually has a bandwagon among sc2 players, they see him as the destined killer of Brood War and think that SC2 will take over BW because of him. This attitude is disgusting and I hate that. As a person who watches and plays both games, I want both games to exist together.
Um....no not at all.
We like him because of his legacy in e-sports, his charisma, his playstyle and the work he puts into establishing the next generation of players. Don't try to bring the SC2 vs BW shit into this, Boxer is Boxer there is no conspiracy among SC2 fans for why we like him.
Do you honestly think that this is people cheering him on in hopes of killing off BW?
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1/5
User was temp banned for this post.
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On August 02 2011 03:18 heyoka wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 01:38 a176 wrote:
Placed in blogs as to not upset rabid Boxer fans and potentially get them banned Whats awesome is that even in blogs this is going to get a billion pages and spawn some serious arguments. Based on pure performance in the booth you have a point, compared to other legends like NaDa and July he doesn't have much that differentiates him. Outside the booth is a totally different story. He started a team from scratch that went on to win back to back GSTLs. He picked up a handful of dudes no one had ever heard of and molded them into a strong, cohesive unit. He told a slumping MMA to go and win Columbus and he did. He brought his men to fight in Anaheim and 3 of them placed Top 4. His celebrity during his prime playing years reached a critical mass point that July and NaDa, for better or worse, never did. Maybe it's because he was the first to truly dominate, maybe it's because of his skills with the media and fans, I have no idea. I didn't come into SC until long after his peak. That point of fame carried over to SC2, and now when people speak of him in hushed tones it lets anyone new know that this man has something special others don't, even among those with golden mice or 87 month KeSPA streaks. Just watch him on the stage, he is a man of confidence and swagger. He holds himself completely differently than any other progamer - as he should - and that is something people take away and remember. Him being the legend isn't tied to performance, fame and reverence are about qualities that can't be quantified.
Someone should edit this into the OP then close the thread once all the misinformation has been clarified.
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On August 02 2011 03:14 Djagulingu wrote:
Thing is, BoxeR actually has a bandwagon among sc2 players, they see him as the destined killer of Brood War and think that SC2 will take over BW because of him. This attitude is disgusting and I hate that. As a person who watches and plays both games, I want both games to exist together.
Lol wtf is wrong with you? XDDD Delusional much? (How could he even kill BW? If SC2 ever takes over BW, it will be because of someone new rising to revolutionize the game. I sincerely doubt BoxeR could possibly be that person.)
We want BoxeR to win at SC2 because he wants to win. We know he has an amazing history of shaping the BW scene. We know he struggles with his shoulder injury and not being able to play the way he used to. We know he is still hanging on because even if his fingers aren't as fast anymore, and even though his game sense doesn't always seem to be there, his heart still is, and he wants to play and prove to everyone he still can so fucking badly!
Anyone who puts their lives into something the way BoxeR does has all my respect and well-wishes for success. How can you not root for someone like that?
If he was trying to make a comeback in BW, I would cheer for him just the same. But he's playing SC2... so we cheer for him to win there.
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hey now we just love him  and you didnt mention iloveoov  but I think he's done alot for SC2 a hell of alot more than july but july and nada have had better results
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On August 02 2011 04:15 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 03:14 Djagulingu wrote:
Thing is, BoxeR actually has a bandwagon among sc2 players, they see him as the destined killer of Brood War and think that SC2 will take over BW because of him. This attitude is disgusting and I hate that. As a person who watches and plays both games, I want both games to exist together. Um....no not at all. We like him because of his legacy in e-sports, his charisma, his playstyle and the work he puts into establishing the next generation of players. Don't try to bring the SC2 vs BW shit into this, Boxer is Boxer there is no conspiracy among SC2 fans for why we like him. Do you honestly think that this is people cheering him on in hopes of killing off BW?
Nope, I am talking about these people.
EDIT: Well, they are not cheering BoxeR for this in these posts, but I think those guys would be his biggest fans if they somehow thought that BoxeR will kill BW for SC2.
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In his 30s, Boxer is already a grandfather - the big daddy of e-sports. Read his biography some time. He's not only a great gamer, but so sweet he just makes ya go..."awwww." Yeah, he deserves respect.
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On August 02 2011 04:42 Djagulingu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 04:15 TheButtonmen wrote:On August 02 2011 03:14 Djagulingu wrote:
Thing is, BoxeR actually has a bandwagon among sc2 players, they see him as the destined killer of Brood War and think that SC2 will take over BW because of him. This attitude is disgusting and I hate that. As a person who watches and plays both games, I want both games to exist together. Um....no not at all. We like him because of his legacy in e-sports, his charisma, his playstyle and the work he puts into establishing the next generation of players. Don't try to bring the SC2 vs BW shit into this, Boxer is Boxer there is no conspiracy among SC2 fans for why we like him. Do you honestly think that this is people cheering him on in hopes of killing off BW? Nope, I am talking about these people.
None of those links have anything to do with Boxer?
I get that you hate the SC2 scene and its fan, that's fine but can you at least not try to start SC2vsBW pissing contest #84547 in threads that have nothing to do with it?
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Yes, he is a legend and a huge contributor to the SC scene. If you support him for those accomplishments, that's fine.
But there's this thread from months ago, that I followed, that showed how blind some people's fanboyism can be.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=172934
"GOMtv protecting Boxer?"
Have people in there saying that the possibility of rigged brackets for Boxer is fine just so they can watch more of him etc. Pages and pages of that.
I dunno, this thread just reminded me of that, maybe that's the kind of people the OP was referring to. Some of those comments in there disgusted me, and I wasn't the only one.
Oh and grats to Boxer for getting far in MLG.
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On August 02 2011 04:56 IntoTheEmo wrote:Yes, he is a legend and a huge contributor to the SC scene. If you support him for those accomplishments, that's fine. But there's this thread from months ago, that I followed, that showed how blind some people's fanboyism can be. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=172934"GOMtv protecting Boxer?" Have people in there saying that the possibility of rigged brackets for Boxer is fine just so they can watch more of him etc. Pages and pages of that. I dunno, this thread just reminded me of that, maybe that's the kind of people the OP was referring to. Some of those comments in there disgusted me, and I wasn't the only one. Oh and grats to Boxer for getting far in MLG.
There will always be stupid people. I bet even "back in the broodwar days" there were stupid people aswell
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On August 02 2011 04:45 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 04:42 Djagulingu wrote:On August 02 2011 04:15 TheButtonmen wrote:On August 02 2011 03:14 Djagulingu wrote:
Thing is, BoxeR actually has a bandwagon among sc2 players, they see him as the destined killer of Brood War and think that SC2 will take over BW because of him. This attitude is disgusting and I hate that. As a person who watches and plays both games, I want both games to exist together. Um....no not at all. We like him because of his legacy in e-sports, his charisma, his playstyle and the work he puts into establishing the next generation of players. Don't try to bring the SC2 vs BW shit into this, Boxer is Boxer there is no conspiracy among SC2 fans for why we like him. Do you honestly think that this is people cheering him on in hopes of killing off BW? Nope, I am talking about these people. None of those links have anything to do with Boxer? I get that you hate the SC2 scene and its fan, that's fine but can you at least not try to start SC2vsBW pissing contest #84547 in threads that have nothing to do with it?
With all due respect, I don't hate SC2 scene and its fans. I hate those vultures watching over BW and eagerly waiting for its death. I'm a big DRG and MVP Team fan myself. I'm not trying to start BW vs SC2 shitwars either. I did a proper edit to my post too. Anyway, I'm suggesting that we should get over it. This is one of the 2 things that I hate about.
On August 02 2011 04:56 IntoTheEmo wrote:Yes, he is a legend and a huge contributor to the SC scene. If you support him for those accomplishments, that's fine. But there's this thread from months ago, that I followed, that showed how blind some people's fanboyism can be. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=172934"GOMtv protecting Boxer?" Have people in there saying that the possibility of rigged brackets for Boxer is fine just so they can watch more of him etc. Pages and pages of that.I dunno, this thread just reminded me of that, maybe that's the kind of people the OP was referring to. Some of those comments in there disgusted me, and I wasn't the only one. Oh and grats to Boxer for getting far in MLG.
And this is the second one.
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BoxeR might not be the Top-Terran nor a multiple time champion like NaDa, Flash or iloveoOv but he's a figure in eSports. He has done so much for eSports in itself and I doubt it would be as big as it is now without Lim Yo Hwan. His performance at MLG was amazingly good and with a bit cleaner execution he could have won against MVP and more even against MMA.
I don't want to praise him as a player for his one-time performance at MLG but he stepped up and you could clearly see it. BoxeR, July, Nal_rA and many other are inspiring players. Persons you look up to and persons that motivate others to play.
MVP himself said he started playing because of BoxeR. I hope you can show a bit more respect towards him as a person even though you might not respect his archievements in Starcraft 2. I will always look up to BoxeR and NaDa.
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No one doubts the charisma of Boxer and the things he has done for e-sports.
But I do think that there is quite a bit of blind bandwagoning happening on TL, and it isn't just with Boxer. Look at the Fan Clubs section, there's a thread for every player that wins a game, and even for some that don't. (Not that I have a problem with fanclubs, just an observation)
Thanks for quoting my post ^^
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Thank you all for the (some hostile) replies. As with the OP, there's no arguing against his popularity. So I didn't. And I won't. I'm fully aware of his influence re: SKT, but I only worry that people new to scene may misunderstand that Boxer was some kind of unstoppable Flash-like behemoth at the keyboard, as they might (and probably don't) have no knowledge of his true past influence, and ignoring other players' accomplishments as well.
On August 02 2011 01:58 BLinD-RawR wrote:also how is  July a 6 time champion? Only  NaDa and Flash have 6..
Yes i was getting ahead of myself in the post :p
ps hi obi 
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On August 02 2011 05:39 IntoTheEmo wrote:
No one doubts the charisma of Boxer and the things he has done for e-sports.
But I do think that there is quite a bit of blind bandwagoning happening on TL, and it isn't just with Boxer. Look at the Fan Clubs section, there's a thread for every player that wins a game, and even for some that don't. (Not that I have a problem with fanclubs, just an observation)
Thanks for quoting my post ^^
Winning records have nothing to do with people having fans, hell this weekend Gimix who is far from a "pro" player got a ton of fans not because of him winning a game but just because of how damn respectable and manner he was.
As an aside for those unfamilar with Gimix here's a brief recap.
+ Show Spoiler +MLG: Incredible story coming out of the Open Bracket: Epgimix, the player who White-Ra DQ'd to yesterday, is playing him now. Before the start of the first game, in the pregame chat, Gimix said to White-Ra, "let's do this the right way."
He then proceeded to throw all his SCVs at White-Ra in the first game, and then in the second game. Obviously, he lost both games. The series is now back even at 2-2 and has essentially been reset.
Incredible manner and sportsmanship from Gimix.
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On August 02 2011 03:21 Horuku wrote:
Didn't boxer join the Korean's equivalent of the Air Force for a while? Or am I thinking of someone else...
Boxer did join the airforce, and actually participated in the creation of the air force progaming team Air Force ACE.
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This is the one bandwagon that is always cool to join :p, and for good reason. Go read his translated biography and see what he went through to get esports to the point it's at today.
I remember seeing Boxer on a cereal box when I lived in Korea. For an esports figure back then and now, he was very, very well known relative to everyone else and was the first person from esports to have the charisma/skill to be that guy.
Even when you hear him talk all he talks about is bringing the esports world together and showing entertaining games. Basically it's impossible not to be at least accepting of the Boxer bandwagon unless you are completely ignorant.
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Just about every new up and coming sport has there legend(s) who helped pave the road for their sport.
As far as Starcraft no one has paved the sport more than Boxer has. Of course as newer generations/era come about the skill level is always going to become greater and greater.
Here is a prime of example of that. Take Mixed Martial Arts for an example. He is the man who basically paved the road for MMA and is considered “The legend”, Royce Gracie. Now by no means does he have the accomplishments or track record of say of a modern day champion like Fedor who went undefeated for pretty much a decade and was champion for years, or Anderson Silva in the UFC, the list goes on. Royce still during his time dominated his era, but as new generations come and the sport evolves just like any other sport, people become more technical, smarter,faster, stronger etc......
Royce Gracie by all professionals in MMA recognized as the Legend and who made MMA what it is today. I really don’t think Starcraft would be where it is today without Boxer, just as MMA wouldn’t be where it is today without the old school legends like Royce.
Every generation or era will always have its “Legends” but there is a huge difference between a Legend and a Legend who paved the road for a sport. To those who follow MMA an example would be Royce and a modern day “Legend” Anderson Silva, they will always be remembered as legends, but they won’t get as much respect as the person who helped bring the sport to where it was today.
I hope this rambling on made some sort of sense.
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On August 02 2011 05:45 a176 wrote:Thank you all for the (some hostile) replies. As with the OP, there's no arguing against his popularity. So I didn't. And I won't. I'm fully aware of his influence re: SKT, but I only worry that people new to scene may misunderstand that Boxer was some kind of unstoppable Flash-like behemoth at the keyboard, as they might (and probably don't) have no knowledge of his true past influence, and ignoring other players' accomplishments as well. Yes i was getting ahead of myself in the post :p ps hi obi
Flash is god
But actually you are right although he wasn't unstoppable in my mind boxer is the person who can turn any odd and still win. However I'm realizing that he really wasn't the same as Nada iloveoov or Flash
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