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On July 25 2011 07:03 Frozenhelfire wrote:
I'm pretty uninteresting. I consider myself above average intelligence here in the United States, and all I do is basically spend time on the computer or at school. What is some activity to either do or get good at so I have something interesting to go into conversations with the general woman* would find interesting? I'm pretty awkward so the "go out and have a good time!" wouldn't be good advice for me. I also just moved, so I don't really have friends here.
I'm sort of in the same boat as this. I'm normally shy-ish around people that I don't know, yet once I get to know someone I'm my normal self who enjoys having a fun time.
the situation:
+ Show Spoiler +I'll admit that this last semester of school was the first time I had met a girl that I was actually interested in and I told myself if I let this pass without at least trying I was the biggest idiot on the planet. So I make the effort to talk to her, get to know her, and hang out with her as her time permitted (she was stupid busy all the time). I had thought things died between us when we stopped talking for a week or two and thought that I lost my chance, but then at the start of spring break we had started to talk again. I had mentioned to her that I was on my way to a friends house for a party that night and she said something to the effect of "sounds like you'll have fun, we can talk tomorrow then" and I was like boom, pro suave thoughts and responded back with "well, I'm fairly good at multitasking, so we can still talk(text) if you'd like" (we had been just talking to each other about random stuff, how break was going, etc before this) and the response I got was "I'd like that a lot  " to which prompted immediate fist pumpage for my pro smooth talking. So that night went well in itself, and the next 2 days consisted of us talking about anything and everything until like 4am. + Show Spoiler +One of these nights was when she actually told me that she was bi and who wouldn't enjoy that news? During the last few days of break she told me how two of her good friends from school had actually told her that they thought I was a really great guy and that we should go out. Upon learning this (and from the things that we had talked about) I thought that I had this shit in the bag and when we got back from break things would progress. We get back from break and a few days later after hanging out for a bit I finally grew a pair and told her how I actually felt. She wasn't surprised, since apparently women know everything -_-, and told me that she thought I was a really great guy and all of that jazz, but she didn't think it would be fair to be in a relationship at the time because of how busy she was. She asked me how I wanted to move forward with this and being the gentleman I am I just told her that I understood where she was coming from and didn't want to try and force a relationship onto her and that we could see what happens when her life got a little less stressful. After a few weeks pass I figured that I needed to do something in order to not just be friend-zoned for the rest of my life or something, so I decided to talk to her again and see what the whole deal was and such. After she explained how she was still really busy, I decided I'd rather have a straightforward answer and just asked what the deal would be if she wasn't so busy at the time (like does she actually share the same feelings or not).The obvious "I don't really know" ensued, so I told her that I just wanted a straight forward honest answer. The hammer was then dropped: "well, I'm not so sure that I'm bi anymore". So she's completely into chicks now, the fuck?
(if something makes no sense / needs clarified further just say something, I often forget that people don't have my exact memories :D)
I'm wondering if I did anything wrong I guess you could say, like if I had actually made a solid move would this have turned out differently? Did I completely misread all of the things that she said to me? I guess I'm wondering what I should've/could've done differently, or if I just got unlucky as hell.
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On July 25 2011 09:56 Logginurkeyz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Dear ILK- I have an intriguing / confusing / borderline moral dilemma on my hands! + Show Spoiler [TL;DR version] +
ANYWAYS- point I'm gettin at here is, is it morally reprehensible to pursue my mother's boyfriend's daughter as a love interest? If they do end up married, she would be my step-sister and that would just seem really weird to me. On the other hand, I am clearly across the threshold for further pursuit if I so choose. Do I go for a relationship, or a friends-with-benefits kinda thing? Do you think that would be a terrible thing to do a girl?
So yesterday was my mother's party for her 50th birthday. She got all kinds of neat shit, including a bag full of 50 of everything (super cool gift, imo)! She has been dating this guy for a while, and he has a quite attractive daughter my age. This is where the moral dilemma begins, but develops further... My mother pulled me aside before the party had even started and told me, 'please don't fight with [her] today.' Historically, this girl and I are water and oil- we have our moments, but we don't mix... The entire day I had my tryhard on, trying not to upset her in any way- which became easier as the day wore on. She had a particularly strong perfume on, and her hair looked really nice and really framed her face well. We chatted a bit about work- what the two of us do; how she is also in the automotive industry (I am a parts fabricator, she is a warranty admin); and what our commutes are like in the morning... Overall, a pleasant exchange. We go inside to the A/C and drink in the kitchen for a bit- all the while she is throwing absurd body language at me and tapping her feet against my leg on the ottoman between us. She goes down the hall, and my buddy comes into the kitchen, shaking his head. He imposes, "God damn, [my name]- just fuckin kiss her already... I see your eyes, you're in love with her." 'Historically, we haven't gotten along at all, dude. I'm just tryin to be pleasant.' "Bullshit, you're such a bad liar." 'So I'm the book, now, eh? Tell me narrator, what do you read of her?' "She is trying too hard to act uninterested. Man the fuck up!" Then she gets a phone call. Enter confusing / moral dilemma part... I overhear some of what she says, as we are sitting right next to each other- she is trying to give directions to the house. I ask her where the person is coming from, and I give directions which are relayed to the person on the phone. She hangs up and says, '[he] says he will probably be here in an hour.' I respond, "that your boyfriend?" 'Well, ummm...' 'I see...' This confused the shit out of me for a while, until I had observed their behavior together. When he arrived, she gave him one of those awkward half-hugs with one arm as she looked away from him towards the people at the party. This body language tells me she isn't exactly comfortable with him yet, or just something else which is way over my head. Move forward 2 hours or so- we (us young people) are all sitting around our own little circular table, drinking, playin cards. At this time, we are sitting in the following order around the table (apologies for this confusing diagram) :: [her] [her friend][me][my buddy]; so my buddy and her friend are on either side of her. I get up to get a beer, and they play musical chairs on me- at which point she has taken my seat... New order: [her friend] [her] [me] [my buddy]. So she moved such that she was sitting between her friend and me, rather than across the table from me. After a time, we move this party to inside where there is A/C. So here we sit, at the kitchen table (rectangular): [my buddy] [her] / [me] / [her friend] [her father] / [my mother] We are just drinking, having an unimportant conversation, and eventually decide to play Asshole (the card game). That game goes on until her friend decides to leave- then the rest of us chill in the A/C and drink some more. Her body language around her friend appears as though he is just a good friend she brought over to deter any kind of advances, but he is no longer at the party. I go outside to bask in the cool summer air and have a cigarette in my solitude. Door opens, she walks out, so much for cigarette by myself (she doesn't smoke, and it rather annoys her when it blows in her general direction- I apologized for my smoke blowing at her several times throughout the day). We sit at a table in the backyard, chat for a bit, then start wandering around the yard. Enter confusing / moral dilemma part 3: She takes my hand while we are walking around the yard, I slowly spin her as if we were dancing and yadda yadda yadda... We dance to absolutely no music for 10 minutes, at which point we end up making out in the backyard. Could have been a product of her drinking girly drinks all night, or maybe I finally managed to get her to warm up to me- either way, I was fuckin rollin with it! After this, we return to the frozen realm of the indoors where the A/C is set to like 65degF. People are leaving, I have to give my buddy a ride home, and she is gettin ready to leave as well... I walk her out to her car while my buddy and my brother are lallygagging (apparently, that's how you spell that word...) in the kitchen. I give her a hug and a confusingly passionate good-night kiss (I pretty much leaned on her into the car)... My buddy walks outside with his daughter and car-seat and ruins the moment by coming up to me and slappin me on the shoulder, "yeah, [my name]! bout damn time!" We all laugh, she smiles shyly and gets in her car and drives off... I let my buddy drive my vehicle to his place, then I drive home. As I walk into the house, I am greeted by my sister and her boyfriend informing me that I smell rather girly... Oh shit! I smell like her perfume! I chalk it up to bein with her all day, and try to dismiss it as nothing. Fast forward to this morning- my sister asks if my shirt still smells like [her] perfume. I didn't notice it while walking through my room, so I just said it didn't. I received no regretful text messages from her- only one that was asking me if she left something at my mother's house (I wasn't there to look, so I just told her to ask my mom). Apparently, she had left her camera there. What is it with women and losing cameras? I bought my mother a really nice camera for her birthday (with the 2 year black-tie full replacement warranty), because I expect these things to happen... ANYWAYS- point I'm gettin at here is, is it morally reprehensible to pursue my mother's boyfriend's daughter as a love interest? If they do end up married, she would be my step-sister and that would just seem really weird to me. On the other hand, I am clearly across the threshold for further pursuit if I so choose. Do I go for a relationship, or a friends-with-benefits kinda thing? Do you think that would be a terrible thing to do a girl?
Ok Its really up to you, I was in a situation kinda like that a year or two ago, and went with it. But it never worked out so almost no one found out.
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On July 25 2011 10:14 XKiller wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2011 09:56 Logginurkeyz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Dear ILK- I have an intriguing / confusing / borderline moral dilemma on my hands! + Show Spoiler [TL;DR version] +
ANYWAYS- point I'm gettin at here is, is it morally reprehensible to pursue my mother's boyfriend's daughter as a love interest? If they do end up married, she would be my step-sister and that would just seem really weird to me. On the other hand, I am clearly across the threshold for further pursuit if I so choose. Do I go for a relationship, or a friends-with-benefits kinda thing? Do you think that would be a terrible thing to do a girl?
So yesterday was my mother's party for her 50th birthday. She got all kinds of neat shit, including a bag full of 50 of everything (super cool gift, imo)! She has been dating this guy for a while, and he has a quite attractive daughter my age. This is where the moral dilemma begins, but develops further... My mother pulled me aside before the party had even started and told me, 'please don't fight with [her] today.' Historically, this girl and I are water and oil- we have our moments, but we don't mix... The entire day I had my tryhard on, trying not to upset her in any way- which became easier as the day wore on. She had a particularly strong perfume on, and her hair looked really nice and really framed her face well. We chatted a bit about work- what the two of us do; how she is also in the automotive industry (I am a parts fabricator, she is a warranty admin); and what our commutes are like in the morning... Overall, a pleasant exchange. We go inside to the A/C and drink in the kitchen for a bit- all the while she is throwing absurd body language at me and tapping her feet against my leg on the ottoman between us. She goes down the hall, and my buddy comes into the kitchen, shaking his head. He imposes, "God damn, [my name]- just fuckin kiss her already... I see your eyes, you're in love with her." 'Historically, we haven't gotten along at all, dude. I'm just tryin to be pleasant.' "Bullshit, you're such a bad liar." 'So I'm the book, now, eh? Tell me narrator, what do you read of her?' "She is trying too hard to act uninterested. Man the fuck up!" Then she gets a phone call. Enter confusing / moral dilemma part... I overhear some of what she says, as we are sitting right next to each other- she is trying to give directions to the house. I ask her where the person is coming from, and I give directions which are relayed to the person on the phone. She hangs up and says, '[he] says he will probably be here in an hour.' I respond, "that your boyfriend?" 'Well, ummm...' 'I see...' This confused the shit out of me for a while, until I had observed their behavior together. When he arrived, she gave him one of those awkward half-hugs with one arm as she looked away from him towards the people at the party. This body language tells me she isn't exactly comfortable with him yet, or just something else which is way over my head. Move forward 2 hours or so- we (us young people) are all sitting around our own little circular table, drinking, playin cards. At this time, we are sitting in the following order around the table (apologies for this confusing diagram) :: [her] [her friend][me][my buddy]; so my buddy and her friend are on either side of her. I get up to get a beer, and they play musical chairs on me- at which point she has taken my seat... New order: [her friend] [her] [me] [my buddy]. So she moved such that she was sitting between her friend and me, rather than across the table from me. After a time, we move this party to inside where there is A/C. So here we sit, at the kitchen table (rectangular): [my buddy] [her] / [me] / [her friend] [her father] / [my mother] We are just drinking, having an unimportant conversation, and eventually decide to play Asshole (the card game). That game goes on until her friend decides to leave- then the rest of us chill in the A/C and drink some more. Her body language around her friend appears as though he is just a good friend she brought over to deter any kind of advances, but he is no longer at the party. I go outside to bask in the cool summer air and have a cigarette in my solitude. Door opens, she walks out, so much for cigarette by myself (she doesn't smoke, and it rather annoys her when it blows in her general direction- I apologized for my smoke blowing at her several times throughout the day). We sit at a table in the backyard, chat for a bit, then start wandering around the yard. Enter confusing / moral dilemma part 3: She takes my hand while we are walking around the yard, I slowly spin her as if we were dancing and yadda yadda yadda... We dance to absolutely no music for 10 minutes, at which point we end up making out in the backyard. Could have been a product of her drinking girly drinks all night, or maybe I finally managed to get her to warm up to me- either way, I was fuckin rollin with it! After this, we return to the frozen realm of the indoors where the A/C is set to like 65degF. People are leaving, I have to give my buddy a ride home, and she is gettin ready to leave as well... I walk her out to her car while my buddy and my brother are lallygagging (apparently, that's how you spell that word...) in the kitchen. I give her a hug and a confusingly passionate good-night kiss (I pretty much leaned on her into the car)... My buddy walks outside with his daughter and car-seat and ruins the moment by coming up to me and slappin me on the shoulder, "yeah, [my name]! bout damn time!" We all laugh, she smiles shyly and gets in her car and drives off... I let my buddy drive my vehicle to his place, then I drive home. As I walk into the house, I am greeted by my sister and her boyfriend informing me that I smell rather girly... Oh shit! I smell like her perfume! I chalk it up to bein with her all day, and try to dismiss it as nothing. Fast forward to this morning- my sister asks if my shirt still smells like [her] perfume. I didn't notice it while walking through my room, so I just said it didn't. I received no regretful text messages from her- only one that was asking me if she left something at my mother's house (I wasn't there to look, so I just told her to ask my mom). Apparently, she had left her camera there. What is it with women and losing cameras? I bought my mother a really nice camera for her birthday (with the 2 year black-tie full replacement warranty), because I expect these things to happen... ANYWAYS- point I'm gettin at here is, is it morally reprehensible to pursue my mother's boyfriend's daughter as a love interest? If they do end up married, she would be my step-sister and that would just seem really weird to me. On the other hand, I am clearly across the threshold for further pursuit if I so choose. Do I go for a relationship, or a friends-with-benefits kinda thing? Do you think that would be a terrible thing to do a girl? Ok Its really up to you, I was in a situation kinda like that a year or two ago, and went with it. But it never worked out so almost no one found out.
In my situation, the cat is already out of the bag. Both my mother and her father commented on how well [she] and I had gotten along that day- and I made the potentially harmful statement that, 'even though we are oil and water, she is a cute enough girl and I enjoy her company.' I don't rightly think their reactions were negative- but it was def not something I would normally have said in front of the two of them. Especially considering who the girl was...
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On July 25 2011 09:24 ILOVEKITTENS wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2011 08:59 Probe1 wrote:
How can I be more objective in relationships? My last ex stole my bloody motorcycle before I realized how crazy she was. I should have seen it coming. Having a romantic state of mind has always come easier to me than my friends but this has taught me a lesson in missing the bigger picture.
So, how does one avoid love tinted glasses. + Show Spoiler [text] +
When something seems even the slightest bit off to you in terms of equality in the relationship or excessive allowance for inappropriate behavior, you imagine how you would react if your mother, sister, or friend were in your girlfriend's position. Would you tolerate it? How would it make you feel? How would you react? That is closer to your true sense of right than the skewed perspective that we tend to adopt when we are enamored with another. Another option is to think about it this way: what if your best friend came to you, told you about what his (your) girlfriend did, and asked you if you think it was acceptable. Dissociate yourself from your attachment to her as entirely as possible for the sake of clear thought. Ignore your history, feelings for her, or any excuses she gives and view the action as being more defining of who you are dating than what your feelings are for each other or what you say to each other. "Actions speak louder than words."
To elaborate on this, only unstable/immature people take advantage of/hurt people they truly love. The more likely explanation is that the person either isn't in love, or merely thinks they are in love.
It happens to all of us somehow. Separate the mind from the heart to be a more objective person.
Thanks you. I needed to read that.
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On July 25 2011 09:54 YouGotNothin wrote:
Alright, my turn.
About four weeks ago a girl I was dating for about a month abruptly broke up with me. She stated that she just found out an ex-boyfriend she still had feelings for was moving to where we live. She thought he was moving somewhere else before this and thus thought it would be safe to start dating me. I at first told her I understood and wasn't mad at her because she seemed very upset about the pretty shitty thing she did to me.
I did not think it would take long to get over her, but for some reason I have just been very angry at what she did to me. We have hung out in a totally platonic way a couple times since the break up because she still wants to be friends, but I don't think I can keep doing this.
Should I be angry at her for starting a relationship with me with so much emotional baggage in tow? Or should I try and be just friends with her? And lastly if things don't work out with her ex (she hinted this may happen) should I take her back? She seemed like a really cool girl, but I don't know if I could forgive her for this.
I think you definitely have the right to be angry.
Many young people don't see relationships as being serious things. I tend to view them as serious. Hence, if you are going to go out with someone, you should like them more than anyone else. If this is not true, then it's not a relationship worth having and she acted in a completely immature way.
I think that it is not healthy for you to hang out with her.
Even though you did nothing wrong, she has slighted you pretty badly. I don't think a person who could do that to you and is that immature should have a part in your life. I think that your feelings for her won't improve things either. Getting some distance will clear your mind and give you some more perspective on just how much she fucked shit up. She basically lost her favorite toy, bought a new one, then when she found the first toy she threw the second away. That is fucked up, the second toy (you) has feelings and thought that she had feelings for it (you) too. That kind of betrayal is not easily forgotten or undone.
I don't think you should take her back if they break up.
If she did this, she has the potential to do something just as fucked up in the future. Hopefully it will teach her something.
I think you should forgive her.
As wrong, insensitive, and immature as she is, she should be forgiven. The same level of emotions that make you still like her somewhat despite the shit she did to you are probably what caused her to break up with you and go back to her ex in the first place. Her position is completely wrong, but understandable. Because of this, I think that forgiveness would be better for both of you. I have forgiven girls who have wronged me before, and then told them I never wanted to speak with them in the same conversation, and my life was the better for it. It helped me let go and forget, it helped them move on and feel less guilt and more responsibility, which in turn makes them a better person (I hope, I guess I wouldn't know lol). Even as a friend, I would not trust this person.
Sorry that this happened man, it's rough. Keep your chin up! FIGHTING!
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On July 25 2011 09:56 Logginurkeyz wrote:Dear ILK- I have an intriguing / confusing / borderline moral dilemma on my hands! + Show Spoiler [TL;DR version] +
ANYWAYS- point I'm gettin at here is, is it morally reprehensible to pursue my mother's boyfriend's daughter as a love interest? If they do end up married, she would be my step-sister and that would just seem really weird to me. On the other hand, I am clearly across the threshold for further pursuit if I so choose. Do I go for a relationship, or a friends-with-benefits kinda thing? Do you think that would be a terrible thing to do a girl?
So yesterday was my mother's party for her 50th birthday. She got all kinds of neat shit, including a bag full of 50 of everything (super cool gift, imo)! She has been dating this guy for a while, and he has a quite attractive daughter my age. This is where the moral dilemma begins, but develops further... My mother pulled me aside before the party had even started and told me, 'please don't fight with [her] today.' Historically, this girl and I are water and oil- we have our moments, but we don't mix... The entire day I had my tryhard on, trying not to upset her in any way- which became easier as the day wore on. She had a particularly strong perfume on, and her hair looked really nice and really framed her face well. We chatted a bit about work- what the two of us do; how she is also in the automotive industry (I am a parts fabricator, she is a warranty admin); and what our commutes are like in the morning... Overall, a pleasant exchange. We go inside to the A/C and drink in the kitchen for a bit- all the while she is throwing absurd body language at me and tapping her feet against my leg on the ottoman between us. She goes down the hall, and my buddy comes into the kitchen, shaking his head. He imposes, "God damn, [my name]- just fuckin kiss her already... I see your eyes, you're in love with her." 'Historically, we haven't gotten along at all, dude. I'm just tryin to be pleasant.' "Bullshit, you're such a bad liar." 'So I'm the book, now, eh? Tell me narrator, what do you read of her?' "She is trying too hard to act uninterested. Man the fuck up!" Then she gets a phone call. Enter confusing / moral dilemma part... I overhear some of what she says, as we are sitting right next to each other- she is trying to give directions to the house. I ask her where the person is coming from, and I give directions which are relayed to the person on the phone. She hangs up and says, '[he] says he will probably be here in an hour.' I respond, "that your boyfriend?" 'Well, ummm...' 'I see...' This confused the shit out of me for a while, until I had observed their behavior together. When he arrived, she gave him one of those awkward half-hugs with one arm as she looked away from him towards the people at the party. This body language tells me she isn't exactly comfortable with him yet, or just something else which is way over my head. Move forward 2 hours or so- we (us young people) are all sitting around our own little circular table, drinking, playin cards. At this time, we are sitting in the following order around the table (apologies for this confusing diagram) :: [her] [her friend][me][my buddy]; so my buddy and her friend are on either side of her. I get up to get a beer, and they play musical chairs on me- at which point she has taken my seat... New order: [her friend] [her] [me] [my buddy]. So she moved such that she was sitting between her friend and me, rather than across the table from me. After a time, we move this party to inside where there is A/C. So here we sit, at the kitchen table (rectangular): [my buddy] [her] / [me] / [her friend] [her father] / [my mother] We are just drinking, having an unimportant conversation, and eventually decide to play Asshole (the card game). That game goes on until her friend decides to leave- then the rest of us chill in the A/C and drink some more. Her body language around her friend appears as though he is just a good friend she brought over to deter any kind of advances, but he is no longer at the party. I go outside to bask in the cool summer air and have a cigarette in my solitude. Door opens, she walks out, so much for cigarette by myself (she doesn't smoke, and it rather annoys her when it blows in her general direction- I apologized for my smoke blowing at her several times throughout the day). We sit at a table in the backyard, chat for a bit, then start wandering around the yard. Enter confusing / moral dilemma part 3: She takes my hand while we are walking around the yard, I slowly spin her as if we were dancing and yadda yadda yadda... We dance to absolutely no music for 10 minutes, at which point we end up making out in the backyard. Could have been a product of her drinking girly drinks all night, or maybe I finally managed to get her to warm up to me- either way, I was fuckin rollin with it! After this, we return to the frozen realm of the indoors where the A/C is set to like 65degF. People are leaving, I have to give my buddy a ride home, and she is gettin ready to leave as well... I walk her out to her car while my buddy and my brother are lallygagging (apparently, that's how you spell that word...) in the kitchen. I give her a hug and a confusingly passionate good-night kiss (I pretty much leaned on her into the car)... My buddy walks outside with his daughter and car-seat and ruins the moment by coming up to me and slappin me on the shoulder, "yeah, [my name]! bout damn time!" We all laugh, she smiles shyly and gets in her car and drives off... I let my buddy drive my vehicle to his place, then I drive home. As I walk into the house, I am greeted by my sister and her boyfriend informing me that I smell rather girly... Oh shit! I smell like her perfume! I chalk it up to bein with her all day, and try to dismiss it as nothing. Fast forward to this morning- my sister asks if my shirt still smells like [her] perfume. I didn't notice it while walking through my room, so I just said it didn't. I received no regretful text messages from her- only one that was asking me if she left something at my mother's house (I wasn't there to look, so I just told her to ask my mom). Apparently, she had left her camera there. What is it with women and losing cameras? I bought my mother a really nice camera for her birthday (with the 2 year black-tie full replacement warranty), because I expect these things to happen... ANYWAYS- point I'm gettin at here is, is it morally reprehensible to pursue my mother's boyfriend's daughter as a love interest? If they do end up married, she would be my step-sister and that would just seem really weird to me. On the other hand, I am clearly across the threshold for further pursuit if I so choose. Do I go for a relationship, or a friends-with-benefits kinda thing? Do you think that would be a terrible thing to do a girl?
Morality should be your own personal judgment, not mine. I find other issues in this situation that I want to bring to your attention though.
Even if you don't have a moral problem with this, she might, and so might your respective families. Family should come first in this situation. If you're brave enough, I'd ask your mom's opinion.
Another problem is that fake-boyfriend situation. She got notably closer to you when he was around, but her friend wasn't. She probably was trying to seek the same protection that her friend offered her. This + a few drinks + a day of you being nicer to her than usual + emotional dropout from failing relationship = attraction. I think that there are too many volatile factors in this relationship for it to work out on an emotional level. Your history with her isn't really a problem but it doesn't help much that you guys are just starting to get close.
I think that it would be wrong to do anything with her, really, simply because I know it might put your mother's relationship in jeopardy down the line, and because this girl is probably emotionally unstable right now. But, I'll reiterate, morality is subjective, so you should do what you feel comfortable with.
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On July 25 2011 10:48 ILOVEKITTENS wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2011 09:56 Logginurkeyz wrote:Dear ILK- I have an intriguing / confusing / borderline moral dilemma on my hands! + Show Spoiler [TL;DR version] +
ANYWAYS- point I'm gettin at here is, is it morally reprehensible to pursue my mother's boyfriend's daughter as a love interest? If they do end up married, she would be my step-sister and that would just seem really weird to me. On the other hand, I am clearly across the threshold for further pursuit if I so choose. Do I go for a relationship, or a friends-with-benefits kinda thing? Do you think that would be a terrible thing to do a girl?
So yesterday was my mother's party for her 50th birthday. She got all kinds of neat shit, including a bag full of 50 of everything (super cool gift, imo)! She has been dating this guy for a while, and he has a quite attractive daughter my age. This is where the moral dilemma begins, but develops further... My mother pulled me aside before the party had even started and told me, 'please don't fight with [her] today.' Historically, this girl and I are water and oil- we have our moments, but we don't mix... The entire day I had my tryhard on, trying not to upset her in any way- which became easier as the day wore on. She had a particularly strong perfume on, and her hair looked really nice and really framed her face well. We chatted a bit about work- what the two of us do; how she is also in the automotive industry (I am a parts fabricator, she is a warranty admin); and what our commutes are like in the morning... Overall, a pleasant exchange. We go inside to the A/C and drink in the kitchen for a bit- all the while she is throwing absurd body language at me and tapping her feet against my leg on the ottoman between us. She goes down the hall, and my buddy comes into the kitchen, shaking his head. He imposes, "God damn, [my name]- just fuckin kiss her already... I see your eyes, you're in love with her." 'Historically, we haven't gotten along at all, dude. I'm just tryin to be pleasant.' "Bullshit, you're such a bad liar." 'So I'm the book, now, eh? Tell me narrator, what do you read of her?' "She is trying too hard to act uninterested. Man the fuck up!" Then she gets a phone call. Enter confusing / moral dilemma part... I overhear some of what she says, as we are sitting right next to each other- she is trying to give directions to the house. I ask her where the person is coming from, and I give directions which are relayed to the person on the phone. She hangs up and says, '[he] says he will probably be here in an hour.' I respond, "that your boyfriend?" 'Well, ummm...' 'I see...' This confused the shit out of me for a while, until I had observed their behavior together. When he arrived, she gave him one of those awkward half-hugs with one arm as she looked away from him towards the people at the party. This body language tells me she isn't exactly comfortable with him yet, or just something else which is way over my head. Move forward 2 hours or so- we (us young people) are all sitting around our own little circular table, drinking, playin cards. At this time, we are sitting in the following order around the table (apologies for this confusing diagram) :: [her] [her friend][me][my buddy]; so my buddy and her friend are on either side of her. I get up to get a beer, and they play musical chairs on me- at which point she has taken my seat... New order: [her friend] [her] [me] [my buddy]. So she moved such that she was sitting between her friend and me, rather than across the table from me. After a time, we move this party to inside where there is A/C. So here we sit, at the kitchen table (rectangular): [my buddy] [her] / [me] / [her friend] [her father] / [my mother] We are just drinking, having an unimportant conversation, and eventually decide to play Asshole (the card game). That game goes on until her friend decides to leave- then the rest of us chill in the A/C and drink some more. Her body language around her friend appears as though he is just a good friend she brought over to deter any kind of advances, but he is no longer at the party. I go outside to bask in the cool summer air and have a cigarette in my solitude. Door opens, she walks out, so much for cigarette by myself (she doesn't smoke, and it rather annoys her when it blows in her general direction- I apologized for my smoke blowing at her several times throughout the day). We sit at a table in the backyard, chat for a bit, then start wandering around the yard. Enter confusing / moral dilemma part 3: She takes my hand while we are walking around the yard, I slowly spin her as if we were dancing and yadda yadda yadda... We dance to absolutely no music for 10 minutes, at which point we end up making out in the backyard. Could have been a product of her drinking girly drinks all night, or maybe I finally managed to get her to warm up to me- either way, I was fuckin rollin with it! After this, we return to the frozen realm of the indoors where the A/C is set to like 65degF. People are leaving, I have to give my buddy a ride home, and she is gettin ready to leave as well... I walk her out to her car while my buddy and my brother are lallygagging (apparently, that's how you spell that word...) in the kitchen. I give her a hug and a confusingly passionate good-night kiss (I pretty much leaned on her into the car)... My buddy walks outside with his daughter and car-seat and ruins the moment by coming up to me and slappin me on the shoulder, "yeah, [my name]! bout damn time!" We all laugh, she smiles shyly and gets in her car and drives off... I let my buddy drive my vehicle to his place, then I drive home. As I walk into the house, I am greeted by my sister and her boyfriend informing me that I smell rather girly... Oh shit! I smell like her perfume! I chalk it up to bein with her all day, and try to dismiss it as nothing. Fast forward to this morning- my sister asks if my shirt still smells like [her] perfume. I didn't notice it while walking through my room, so I just said it didn't. I received no regretful text messages from her- only one that was asking me if she left something at my mother's house (I wasn't there to look, so I just told her to ask my mom). Apparently, she had left her camera there. What is it with women and losing cameras? I bought my mother a really nice camera for her birthday (with the 2 year black-tie full replacement warranty), because I expect these things to happen... ANYWAYS- point I'm gettin at here is, is it morally reprehensible to pursue my mother's boyfriend's daughter as a love interest? If they do end up married, she would be my step-sister and that would just seem really weird to me. On the other hand, I am clearly across the threshold for further pursuit if I so choose. Do I go for a relationship, or a friends-with-benefits kinda thing? Do you think that would be a terrible thing to do a girl? Morality should be your own personal judgment, not mine. I find other issues in this situation that I want to bring to your attention though. Even if you don't have a moral problem with this, she might, and so might your respective families. Family should come first in this situation. If you're brave enough, I'd ask your mom's opinion. Another problem is that fake-boyfriend situation. She got notably closer to you when he was around, but her friend wasn't. She probably was trying to seek the same protection that her friend offered her. This + a few drinks + a day of you being nicer to her than usual + emotional dropout from failing relationship = attraction. I think that there are too many volatile factors in this relationship for it to work out on an emotional level. Your history with her isn't really a problem but it doesn't help much that you guys are just starting to get close. I think that it would be wrong to do anything with her, really, simply because I know it might put your mother's relationship in jeopardy down the line, and because this girl is probably emotionally unstable right now. But, I'll reiterate, morality is subjective, so you should do what you feel comfortable with.
I was afraid of this kind of response =0\
Although, my mother is open-minded enough that I could ask her... I really like this girl's father, though- for my mother. Nice upstanding gentleman, wouldn't really wanna ruin it for her because of my poor decisions...
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On July 25 2011 10:03 Andymoo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2011 07:03 Frozenhelfire wrote:
I'm pretty uninteresting. I consider myself above average intelligence here in the United States, and all I do is basically spend time on the computer or at school. What is some activity to either do or get good at so I have something interesting to go into conversations with the general woman* would find interesting? I'm pretty awkward so the "go out and have a good time!" wouldn't be good advice for me. I also just moved, so I don't really have friends here.
I'm sort of in the same boat as this. I'm normally shy-ish around people that I don't know, yet once I get to know someone I'm my normal self who enjoys having a fun time. the situation: + Show Spoiler +I'll admit that this last semester of school was the first time I had met a girl that I was actually interested in and I told myself if I let this pass without at least trying I was the biggest idiot on the planet. So I make the effort to talk to her, get to know her, and hang out with her as her time permitted (she was stupid busy all the time). I had thought things died between us when we stopped talking for a week or two and thought that I lost my chance, but then at the start of spring break we had started to talk again. I had mentioned to her that I was on my way to a friends house for a party that night and she said something to the effect of "sounds like you'll have fun, we can talk tomorrow then" and I was like boom, pro suave thoughts and responded back with "well, I'm fairly good at multitasking, so we can still talk(text) if you'd like" (we had been just talking to each other about random stuff, how break was going, etc before this) and the response I got was "I'd like that a lot " to which prompted immediate fist pumpage for my pro smooth talking. So that night went well in itself, and the next 2 days consisted of us talking about anything and everything until like 4am. + Show Spoiler +One of these nights was when she actually told me that she was bi and who wouldn't enjoy that news? During the last few days of break she told me how two of her good friends from school had actually told her that they thought I was a really great guy and that we should go out. Upon learning this (and from the things that we had talked about) I thought that I had this shit in the bag and when we got back from break things would progress. We get back from break and a few days later after hanging out for a bit I finally grew a pair and told her how I actually felt. She wasn't surprised, since apparently women know everything -_-, and told me that she thought I was a really great guy and all of that jazz, but she didn't think it would be fair to be in a relationship at the time because of how busy she was. She asked me how I wanted to move forward with this and being the gentleman I am I just told her that I understood where she was coming from and didn't want to try and force a relationship onto her and that we could see what happens when her life got a little less stressful. After a few weeks pass I figured that I needed to do something in order to not just be friend-zoned for the rest of my life or something, so I decided to talk to her again and see what the whole deal was and such. After she explained how she was still really busy, I decided I'd rather have a straightforward answer and just asked what the deal would be if she wasn't so busy at the time (like does she actually share the same feelings or not).The obvious "I don't really know" ensued, so I told her that I just wanted a straight forward honest answer. The hammer was then dropped: "well, I'm not so sure that I'm bi anymore". So she's completely into chicks now, the fuck? (if something makes no sense / needs clarified further just say something, I often forget that people don't have my exact memories :D) I'm wondering if I did anything wrong I guess you could say, like if I had actually made a solid move would this have turned out differently? Did I completely misread all of the things that she said to me? I guess I'm wondering what I should've/could've done differently, or if I just got unlucky as hell.
First of all, "I'll admit that this last semester of school was the first time I had met a girl that I was actually interested in and I told myself if I let this pass without at least trying I was the biggest idiot on the planet," is a great mentality to have. Judging from this story, you have a head on your shoulders and you'll come out of this okay, regardless of whether it's with her or without her.
I think you did everything fine. When she said she was busy, I might have said something along the lines of "I don't want to push you, but I still want to be able to call you my girlfriend and spend more time with you. It's not about how much time you or I have, if you were to die an hour from now, I'd still ask you to be my girlfriend." But, I say this hypothetically, as I've never been faced with this problem. It's by no means the only option, and I feel that this is a situation where people have to take the path that they feel comfortable with. I think that the path you chose might seem a little less devoted/passionate (but also less needy? depends on how close you two were), but also more empathetic (which is a good quality in a guy).
I don't think you misread anything, your story seemed pretty objective, and she seemed to show genuine interest, on paper at least.
I do think you got unlucky. She seems to be going through a transition period in her life (being bisexual is one sign of this), maybe discovering herself, and that might also be the reason why she was shying away from a relationship. From what I gathered, she did like you, and wanted to keep you as an option when she came to the end of whatever personal journey she is on. Although this assumption makes her seem pretty selfish, emotions can make you subconsciously do these things, which I suspect was her case.
I'm sorry that things turned out this way. I don't think you should put any pressure on her, maybe tell her that no matter what you'll support her (if she is going through a period of sexual discovery, she may have issues with her friends and family) if you are so inclined, and you should move on and not think any less of yourself for what happened. Best of luck!
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On July 25 2011 10:56 Logginurkeyz wrote:
I was afraid of this kind of response =0\
Although, my mother is open-minded enough that I could ask her... I really like this girl's father, though- for my mother. Nice upstanding gentleman, wouldn't really wanna ruin it for her because of my poor decisions...
Asking shouldn't do any damage, if anything I think your mother will be surprised by how mature you are for coming to her with this kind of question, because it is a very touchy situation. However, I want to make sure you discuss this with her and not just ask her permission. Having a discussion will illuminate whatever other problems there may be with your situation, which your mother has much more first-hand experience with than anyone online ever would (she knows you, herself, her boyfriend, his daughter, and how it would affect the relationship).
You should judge for yourself whether or not you want to trouble your mom with this though. Only do it if you are truly serious about going out with this girl first, and not at the level of asking whether its right or not. I suggest you give it some time and let that day fade a little, and see if you still feel as strongly. If you do, think about what makes her different from other girls you know. If there are almost no differences, then I would say it is a product of your interesting relationship (many relationships start after two people 'hate' each other, because as long as you are feeling emotions for each other it is possible to change their direction). If there are differences, take note of them - these are the qualities that you look for in women, and you should try to look for women who would cause fewer potential complications (which I am sure you can imagine there to be many). The way I see it, if your relationship with her goes wrong, it could ruin your relationship with your mom because it might affect your mom's relationship with her boyfriend. That is too great of a sacrifice to make, in my opinion. On top of that, as lovely of a person as your mom is, I think it would be more difficult for her to find a single man around her age who she will like, whereas you are young and I think you will plow many a pussy yet.
Either way, best of luck. You're in a tough spot, but you'll be fine regardless of what happens.
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On July 25 2011 11:02 ILOVEKITTENS wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2011 10:03 Andymoo wrote:On July 25 2011 07:03 Frozenhelfire wrote:
I'm pretty uninteresting. I consider myself above average intelligence here in the United States, and all I do is basically spend time on the computer or at school. What is some activity to either do or get good at so I have something interesting to go into conversations with the general woman* would find interesting? I'm pretty awkward so the "go out and have a good time!" wouldn't be good advice for me. I also just moved, so I don't really have friends here.
I'm sort of in the same boat as this. I'm normally shy-ish around people that I don't know, yet once I get to know someone I'm my normal self who enjoys having a fun time. the situation: + Show Spoiler +I'll admit that this last semester of school was the first time I had met a girl that I was actually interested in and I told myself if I let this pass without at least trying I was the biggest idiot on the planet. So I make the effort to talk to her, get to know her, and hang out with her as her time permitted (she was stupid busy all the time). I had thought things died between us when we stopped talking for a week or two and thought that I lost my chance, but then at the start of spring break we had started to talk again. I had mentioned to her that I was on my way to a friends house for a party that night and she said something to the effect of "sounds like you'll have fun, we can talk tomorrow then" and I was like boom, pro suave thoughts and responded back with "well, I'm fairly good at multitasking, so we can still talk(text) if you'd like" (we had been just talking to each other about random stuff, how break was going, etc before this) and the response I got was "I'd like that a lot " to which prompted immediate fist pumpage for my pro smooth talking. So that night went well in itself, and the next 2 days consisted of us talking about anything and everything until like 4am. + Show Spoiler +One of these nights was when she actually told me that she was bi and who wouldn't enjoy that news? During the last few days of break she told me how two of her good friends from school had actually told her that they thought I was a really great guy and that we should go out. Upon learning this (and from the things that we had talked about) I thought that I had this shit in the bag and when we got back from break things would progress. We get back from break and a few days later after hanging out for a bit I finally grew a pair and told her how I actually felt. She wasn't surprised, since apparently women know everything -_-, and told me that she thought I was a really great guy and all of that jazz, but she didn't think it would be fair to be in a relationship at the time because of how busy she was. She asked me how I wanted to move forward with this and being the gentleman I am I just told her that I understood where she was coming from and didn't want to try and force a relationship onto her and that we could see what happens when her life got a little less stressful. After a few weeks pass I figured that I needed to do something in order to not just be friend-zoned for the rest of my life or something, so I decided to talk to her again and see what the whole deal was and such. After she explained how she was still really busy, I decided I'd rather have a straightforward answer and just asked what the deal would be if she wasn't so busy at the time (like does she actually share the same feelings or not).The obvious "I don't really know" ensued, so I told her that I just wanted a straight forward honest answer. The hammer was then dropped: "well, I'm not so sure that I'm bi anymore". So she's completely into chicks now, the fuck? (if something makes no sense / needs clarified further just say something, I often forget that people don't have my exact memories :D) I'm wondering if I did anything wrong I guess you could say, like if I had actually made a solid move would this have turned out differently? Did I completely misread all of the things that she said to me? I guess I'm wondering what I should've/could've done differently, or if I just got unlucky as hell. First of all, "I'll admit that this last semester of school was the first time I had met a girl that I was actually interested in and I told myself if I let this pass without at least trying I was the biggest idiot on the planet," is a great mentality to have. Judging from this story, you have a head on your shoulders and you'll come out of this okay, regardless of whether it's with her or without her. I think you did everything fine. When she said she was busy, I might have said something along the lines of "I don't want to push you, but I still want to be able to call you my girlfriend and spend more time with you. It's not about how much time you or I have, if you were to die an hour from now, I'd still ask you to be my girlfriend." But, I say this hypothetically, as I've never been faced with this problem. It's by no means the only option, and I feel that this is a situation where people have to take the path that they feel comfortable with. I think that the path you chose might seem a little less devoted/passionate (but also less needy? depends on how close you two were), but also more empathetic (which is a good quality in a guy). I don't think you misread anything, your story seemed pretty objective, and she seemed to show genuine interest, on paper at least. I do think you got unlucky. She seems to be going through a transition period in her life (being bisexual is one sign of this), maybe discovering herself, and that might also be the reason why she was shying away from a relationship. From what I gathered, she did like you, and wanted to keep you as an option when she came to the end of whatever personal journey she is on. Although this assumption makes her seem pretty selfish, emotions can make you subconsciously do these things, which I suspect was her case. I'm sorry that things turned out this way. I don't think you should put any pressure on her, maybe tell her that no matter what you'll support her (if she is going through a period of sexual discovery, she may have issues with her friends and family) if you are so inclined, and you should move on and not think any less of yourself for what happened. Best of luck!
Yeah I told her I never wanted to try and force something because of the amount of respect I have for her. I still care about her and hope the best for her, but I've accepted what has come of it (she started dating this girl a few weeks back, so I guess that solidifies things). Granted I didn't handle it in the best way (I carried it with me for awhile), but shit happens I guess and I know that I at least learned a lot about myself. Thanks for your response my good sir.
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On July 25 2011 05:24 Hikko wrote:
I'm planning on taking a girl out for a nice dinner date as our first date, but is just dinner enough content for a date, or do I need to take her somewhere else as well?
I suggest that you do some kind of activity prior to the dinner. This activity should be something that YOU enjoy but not nerdy. When doing this activity, you can explain why you enjoy this activity and all the interesting things you've learnt about it. It's best that this activity allows both of you to talk to each other.
Examples: Ice-skating, mini-golf, photography
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On July 25 2011 09:56 Logginurkeyz wrote:Dear ILK- I have an intriguing / confusing / borderline moral dilemma on my hands! + Show Spoiler [TL;DR version] +
ANYWAYS- point I'm gettin at here is, is it morally reprehensible to pursue my mother's boyfriend's daughter as a love interest? If they do end up married, she would be my step-sister and that would just seem really weird to me. On the other hand, I am clearly across the threshold for further pursuit if I so choose. Do I go for a relationship, or a friends-with-benefits kinda thing? Do you think that would be a terrible thing to do a girl?
So yesterday was my mother's party for her 50th birthday. She got all kinds of neat shit, including a bag full of 50 of everything (super cool gift, imo)! She has been dating this guy for a while, and he has a quite attractive daughter my age. This is where the moral dilemma begins, but develops further... My mother pulled me aside before the party had even started and told me, 'please don't fight with [her] today.' Historically, this girl and I are water and oil- we have our moments, but we don't mix... The entire day I had my tryhard on, trying not to upset her in any way- which became easier as the day wore on. She had a particularly strong perfume on, and her hair looked really nice and really framed her face well. We chatted a bit about work- what the two of us do; how she is also in the automotive industry (I am a parts fabricator, she is a warranty admin); and what our commutes are like in the morning... Overall, a pleasant exchange. We go inside to the A/C and drink in the kitchen for a bit- all the while she is throwing absurd body language at me and tapping her feet against my leg on the ottoman between us. She goes down the hall, and my buddy comes into the kitchen, shaking his head. He imposes, "God damn, [my name]- just fuckin kiss her already... I see your eyes, you're in love with her." 'Historically, we haven't gotten along at all, dude. I'm just tryin to be pleasant.' "Bullshit, you're such a bad liar." 'So I'm the book, now, eh? Tell me narrator, what do you read of her?' "She is trying too hard to act uninterested. Man the fuck up!" Then she gets a phone call. Enter confusing / moral dilemma part... I overhear some of what she says, as we are sitting right next to each other- she is trying to give directions to the house. I ask her where the person is coming from, and I give directions which are relayed to the person on the phone. She hangs up and says, '[he] says he will probably be here in an hour.' I respond, "that your boyfriend?" 'Well, ummm...' 'I see...' This confused the shit out of me for a while, until I had observed their behavior together. When he arrived, she gave him one of those awkward half-hugs with one arm as she looked away from him towards the people at the party. This body language tells me she isn't exactly comfortable with him yet, or just something else which is way over my head. Move forward 2 hours or so- we (us young people) are all sitting around our own little circular table, drinking, playin cards. At this time, we are sitting in the following order around the table (apologies for this confusing diagram) :: [her] [her friend][me][my buddy]; so my buddy and her friend are on either side of her. I get up to get a beer, and they play musical chairs on me- at which point she has taken my seat... New order: [her friend] [her] [me] [my buddy]. So she moved such that she was sitting between her friend and me, rather than across the table from me. After a time, we move this party to inside where there is A/C. So here we sit, at the kitchen table (rectangular): [my buddy] [her] / [me] / [her friend] [her father] / [my mother] We are just drinking, having an unimportant conversation, and eventually decide to play Asshole (the card game). That game goes on until her friend decides to leave- then the rest of us chill in the A/C and drink some more. Her body language around her friend appears as though he is just a good friend she brought over to deter any kind of advances, but he is no longer at the party. I go outside to bask in the cool summer air and have a cigarette in my solitude. Door opens, she walks out, so much for cigarette by myself (she doesn't smoke, and it rather annoys her when it blows in her general direction- I apologized for my smoke blowing at her several times throughout the day). We sit at a table in the backyard, chat for a bit, then start wandering around the yard. Enter confusing / moral dilemma part 3: She takes my hand while we are walking around the yard, I slowly spin her as if we were dancing and yadda yadda yadda... We dance to absolutely no music for 10 minutes, at which point we end up making out in the backyard. Could have been a product of her drinking girly drinks all night, or maybe I finally managed to get her to warm up to me- either way, I was fuckin rollin with it! After this, we return to the frozen realm of the indoors where the A/C is set to like 65degF. People are leaving, I have to give my buddy a ride home, and she is gettin ready to leave as well... I walk her out to her car while my buddy and my brother are lallygagging (apparently, that's how you spell that word...) in the kitchen. I give her a hug and a confusingly passionate good-night kiss (I pretty much leaned on her into the car)... My buddy walks outside with his daughter and car-seat and ruins the moment by coming up to me and slappin me on the shoulder, "yeah, [my name]! bout damn time!" We all laugh, she smiles shyly and gets in her car and drives off... I let my buddy drive my vehicle to his place, then I drive home. As I walk into the house, I am greeted by my sister and her boyfriend informing me that I smell rather girly... Oh shit! I smell like her perfume! I chalk it up to bein with her all day, and try to dismiss it as nothing. Fast forward to this morning- my sister asks if my shirt still smells like [her] perfume. I didn't notice it while walking through my room, so I just said it didn't. I received no regretful text messages from her- only one that was asking me if she left something at my mother's house (I wasn't there to look, so I just told her to ask my mom). Apparently, she had left her camera there. What is it with women and losing cameras? I bought my mother a really nice camera for her birthday (with the 2 year black-tie full replacement warranty), because I expect these things to happen... ANYWAYS- point I'm gettin at here is, is it morally reprehensible to pursue my mother's boyfriend's daughter as a love interest? If they do end up married, she would be my step-sister and that would just seem really weird to me. On the other hand, I am clearly across the threshold for further pursuit if I so choose. Do I go for a relationship, or a friends-with-benefits kinda thing? Do you think that would be a terrible thing to do a girl?
Your situation is on the low-end of the morality-problem scale and should not be an issue. I've heard about step brothers and sisters growing up together and then hooking up. I've also heard about cousins getting married. Those two situations are higher up in the morality-problem scale.
She may be possibly be your step-sister but you're both grown up now and it shouldn't matter.
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On July 25 2011 09:54 YouGotNothin wrote:
Alright, my turn.
About four weeks ago a girl I was dating for about a month abruptly broke up with me. She stated that she just found out an ex-boyfriend she still had feelings for was moving to where we live. She thought he was moving somewhere else before this and thus thought it would be safe to start dating me. I at first told her I understood and wasn't mad at her because she seemed very upset about the pretty shitty thing she did to me.
I did not think it would take long to get over her, but for some reason I have just been very angry at what she did to me. We have hung out in a totally platonic way a couple times since the break up because she still wants to be friends, but I don't think I can keep doing this.
Should I be angry at her for starting a relationship with me with so much emotional baggage in tow? Or should I try and be just friends with her? And lastly if things don't work out with her ex (she hinted this may happen) should I take her back? She seemed like a really cool girl, but I don't know if I could forgive her for this.
I think it's totally justified to be angry. In fact, I would advice you to let her know about it and then break off contact because hanging around platonically is just a means of getting friend-zoned and it's not worth your time.
As for taking her back, that is your decision. Realise that people do make mistakes. However, if you're unable to bear it then don't take her back. If you do take her back, then you need to make the commitment to forgiving her.
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On July 25 2011 11:34 Andymoo wrote:
Yeah I told her I never wanted to try and force something because of the amount of respect I have for her. I still care about her and hope the best for her, but I've accepted what has come of it (she started dating this girl a few weeks back, so I guess that solidifies things). Granted I didn't handle it in the best way (I carried it with me for awhile), but shit happens I guess and I know that I at least learned a lot about myself. Thanks for your response my good sir.
That's pretty rough man sorry to hear that happened with the first girl you were really interested in. Try not to get too disheartened by this though, you will meet other interesting girls and now that you've had some experience, getting to know them will only get easier. Good luck!
Also thanks to everyone that responded to my post, I think I will just have to forgive her and get over her. I think I need to talk to her again at some point though and figure out what her real feelings/intentions were with our relationship, I don't care what the answer is I just need to know. I get this odd feeling that she just completely used me because she was lonely/horny.
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On July 25 2011 12:43 YouGotNothin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2011 11:34 Andymoo wrote:
Yeah I told her I never wanted to try and force something because of the amount of respect I have for her. I still care about her and hope the best for her, but I've accepted what has come of it (she started dating this girl a few weeks back, so I guess that solidifies things). Granted I didn't handle it in the best way (I carried it with me for awhile), but shit happens I guess and I know that I at least learned a lot about myself. Thanks for your response my good sir. That's pretty rough man sorry to hear that happened with the first girl you were really interested in. Try not to get too disheartened by this though, you will meet other interesting girls and now that you've had some experience, getting to know them will only get easier. Good luck! Also thanks to everyone that responded to my post, I think I will just have to forgive her and get over her. I think I need to talk to her again at some point though and figure out what her real feelings/intentions were with our relationship, I don't care what the answer is I just need to know. I get this odd feeling that she just completely used me because she was lonely/horny.
Take whatever she tells you with a grain of salt, she probably is very mixed up herself and I don't think anyone would openly admit to what you think she did ):
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On July 25 2011 12:48 ILOVEKITTENS wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2011 12:43 YouGotNothin wrote:On July 25 2011 11:34 Andymoo wrote:
Yeah I told her I never wanted to try and force something because of the amount of respect I have for her. I still care about her and hope the best for her, but I've accepted what has come of it (she started dating this girl a few weeks back, so I guess that solidifies things). Granted I didn't handle it in the best way (I carried it with me for awhile), but shit happens I guess and I know that I at least learned a lot about myself. Thanks for your response my good sir. That's pretty rough man sorry to hear that happened with the first girl you were really interested in. Try not to get too disheartened by this though, you will meet other interesting girls and now that you've had some experience, getting to know them will only get easier. Good luck! Also thanks to everyone that responded to my post, I think I will just have to forgive her and get over her. I think I need to talk to her again at some point though and figure out what her real feelings/intentions were with our relationship, I don't care what the answer is I just need to know. I get this odd feeling that she just completely used me because she was lonely/horny. Take whatever she tells you with a grain of salt, she probably is very mixed up herself and I don't think anyone would openly admit to what you think she did ):
Gah, you are probably right, but I feel like she at least owes me some freaking honesty after what she did.
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Gotta say Kittens, I'm truly impressed at this thread's turnout. Nice job!
You may or may not have noticed, but I give a ton of advice in the relationship blogs as well. Most times when I'm having issues I'll stick with advice from RL friends, but you seem to have your head on straight, so I'll lay it on you! I've thought through this a lot, so I'm going to put my plans under spoiler.
Backstory - I've known this girl since we've been in high school. We lived 1100 miles apart, but it was the early 2000's and AIM was in its heyday. We met through a marching band forum and talked on and off for a few years. Nothing major, just an hour-long conversation every week or two. I was really into this other girl at the time and HATED the fact she was always crushing on internet men, so there was this huge barrier with AIM buddies. Time went on, we lost touch, and that was that. We talked again a few summers ago, but things really picked up in November.
We started talking again when she found out I live really close. I moved across country for grad school, so now we're a four hour drive apart. As the month went on we started talking a lot more frequently. Turns out she had a thing for me in high school..er...as much of a thing you can have with someone over the internet when you're 17. Also turns out that she started having a thing for me again! I was definitely interested, but I convinced myself it was rebound since I had gotten out of a relationship about a month earlier. We finally met face to face at the end of that month and she told me later that she really wished I had tried to kiss her.
So why would I turn down such a ready and willing female? She has a boyfriend. Don't you just hate it when that happens? Unlike most girls in a relationship she really doesn't like it and both her and the guy are surprised they've lasted two years given how much they fight and they fact they live 1500 miles apart. In December she had plans to break up with him, but for one reason or another didn't. I took this opportunity to bow out. We didn't talk from January to April.
We met in person again in April. I was in her town for an academic conference and spent our free evening hanging out with her. It was fun. We get along and compliment each other. She was still with the boyfriend, so I still viewed her as forbidden fruit. We became more flirtatious as the night waned, but in the end nothing overly tempting came up. At least that's what I thought.
A few months of almost no talking and suddenly she texting or calling every day (about a month ago). At first she was trying to get me to go on a vacation outing with her and some of her friends. I really need a vacation, so I fronted the money and honestly, it seems like a fun time. Afterwords I'll travel back with her to her home city and chill there for a few days before going home.
Here's where it gets a little messy - she still has a thing for me. This completely baffles me since she should be into her boyfriend, but I've been able to directly get from her that they're in a loveless relationship of fear and convenience held together by the reluctance to let go of someone they've invested so much time into. Once more, I've gotten her to directly tell me that when I visited in April she wanted me to go for the kiss, that she wants me to go for it in a couple weeks, that she would date me in a heartbeat, and that she feels a "warm and fuzzy" AND nervous feeling around me that she almost never feels around anyone else.
Here's the big problem - I like her. I don't know how or why, but I do. It's been very easy to hold back on any advances because of her relationship, but feelings coupled with the physical attraction I've always had and I'm looking at one huge test of willpower.
So, what would you do good sir (or anyone else who feels like responding): Do you stick to your moral guns and not help the girl cheat on the boyfriend she should have broken up with a LONG time ago, or do you give in to the attraction, make a move, and see what happens?
+ Show Spoiler +
This is how I see it:
A). I feel that cheating is not only morally reprehensible, but an indication of what to expect of her if a relationship ever started. One could make the argument that her relationship is already over, but I'm choosing not to muddle that interpretation in a gray area.
B). I may have nothing to lose by going for it (on the surface), but then I put her in an awkward spot and set up her boyfriend to get hurt. Though, she put herself in the awkward spot already, and let's not forget that I'd feel bad for causing the boyfriend some amount of grief.
C). We'll be alone in her house for at least 16 hours (not including time slept). I'm an incredibly patient person, but that's a lot to ask....
Therefore, the current plan of action is to undergo the grueling task of not making a move on the girl I like. She's already booked the flight to see her boyfriend again in early September, so their breaking up won't happen until at least that point. She directly told me today that she wants me to make a move to help her make her mind up. I'm not about to draw an arbitrary line that defines infidelity to remove the guilt from any actions I my take (or taken already), but making a move is definitely crossing the line. If she wants to be with me she has to be single first.
Again, I'm a very patient person, but being with her will definitely wear on my willpower. Here's to hard decisions! I will not deny that I really want to make a move, and given the right situation I could just throw caution to wind. I hope it doesn't come to that, but when fighting a war against human nature the cards are stacked against you.
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On July 25 2011 16:00 Servius_Fulvius wrote:Gotta say Kittens, I'm truly impressed at this thread's turnout. Nice job! You may or may not have noticed, but I give a ton of advice in the relationship blogs as well. Most times when I'm having issues I'll stick with advice from RL friends, but you seem to have your head on straight, so I'll lay it on you! I've thought through this a lot, so I'm going to put my plans under spoiler. Backstory - I've known this girl since we've been in high school. We lived 1100 miles apart, but it was the early 2000's and AIM was in its heyday. We met through a marching band forum and talked on and off for a few years. Nothing major, just an hour-long conversation every week or two. I was really into this other girl at the time and HATED the fact she was always crushing on internet men, so there was this huge barrier with AIM buddies. Time went on, we lost touch, and that was that. We talked again a few summers ago, but things really picked up in November. We started talking again when she found out I live really close. I moved across country for grad school, so now we're a four hour drive apart. As the month went on we started talking a lot more frequently. Turns out she had a thing for me in high school..er...as much of a thing you can have with someone over the internet when you're 17. Also turns out that she started having a thing for me again! I was definitely interested, but I convinced myself it was rebound since I had gotten out of a relationship about a month earlier. We finally met face to face at the end of that month and she told me later that she really wished I had tried to kiss her. So why would I turn down such a ready and willing female? She has a boyfriend. Don't you just hate it when that happens? Unlike most girls in a relationship she really doesn't like it and both her and the guy are surprised they've lasted two years given how much they fight and they fact they live 1500 miles apart. In December she had plans to break up with him, but for one reason or another didn't. I took this opportunity to bow out. We didn't talk from January to April. We met in person again in April. I was in her town for an academic conference and spent our free evening hanging out with her. It was fun. We get along and compliment each other. She was still with the boyfriend, so I still viewed her as forbidden fruit. We became more flirtatious as the night waned, but in the end nothing overly tempting came up. At least that's what I thought. A few months of almost no talking and suddenly she texting or calling every day (about a month ago). At first she was trying to get me to go on a vacation outing with her and some of her friends. I really need a vacation, so I fronted the money and honestly, it seems like a fun time. Afterwords I'll travel back with her to her home city and chill there for a few days before going home. Here's where it gets a little messy - she still has a thing for me. This completely baffles me since she should be into her boyfriend, but I've been able to directly get from her that they're in a loveless relationship of fear and convenience held together by the reluctance to let go of someone they've invested so much time into. Once more, I've gotten her to directly tell me that when I visited in April she wanted me to go for the kiss, that she wants me to go for it in a couple weeks, that she would date me in a heartbeat, and that she feels a "warm and fuzzy" AND nervous feeling around me that she almost never feels around anyone else. Here's the big problem - I like her. I don't know how or why, but I do. It's been very easy to hold back on any advances because of her relationship, but feelings coupled with the physical attraction I've always had and I'm looking at one huge test of willpower. So, what would you do good sir (or anyone else who feels like responding): Do you stick to your moral guns and not help the girl cheat on the boyfriend she should have broken up with a LONG time ago, or do you give in to the attraction, make a move, and see what happens? + Show Spoiler +
This is how I see it:
A). I feel that cheating is not only morally reprehensible, but an indication of what to expect of her if a relationship ever started. One could make the argument that her relationship is already over, but I'm choosing not to muddle that interpretation in a gray area.
B). I may have nothing to lose by going for it (on the surface), but then I put her in an awkward spot and set up her boyfriend to get hurt. Though, she put herself in the awkward spot already, and let's not forget that I'd feel bad for causing the boyfriend some amount of grief.
C). We'll be alone in her house for at least 16 hours (not including time slept). I'm an incredibly patient person, but that's a lot to ask....
Therefore, the current plan of action is to undergo the grueling task of not making a move on the girl I like. She's already booked the flight to see her boyfriend again in early September, so their breaking up won't happen until at least that point. She directly told me today that she wants me to make a move to help her make her mind up. I'm not about to draw an arbitrary line that defines infidelity to remove the guilt from any actions I my take (or taken already), but making a move is definitely crossing the line. If she wants to be with me she has to be single first.
Again, I'm a very patient person, but being with her will definitely wear on my willpower. Here's to hard decisions! I will not deny that I really want to make a move, and given the right situation I could just throw caution to wind. I hope it doesn't come to that, but when fighting a war against human nature the cards are stacked against you.
Dear Sir,
You have strong willpower first off. I have a similar situation myself actually because there is a girl that is physical and mentally attracting to me and she has teased me to make a move on her. I could pretty much go as far as I wanted with her. Only problem shes had past events with my best friend and neither party will tell me what exactly happen (I do however respect their decision that its not my business). However I do know that it was no little thing.
I have been holding back for quite sometime now and to be honest I really just want to give in to it, and at some point I might but I still dont know right now and havent made a single move. Because of my guilt and fear of what friends will think.
Thought I just give a story to maybe give you more insight on yours ^^
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hey, is it possible to PM you questions instead?
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On July 25 2011 16:21 Dice17 wrote:
Dear Sir,
You have strong willpower first off. I have a similar situation myself actually because there is a girl that is physical and mentally attracting to me and she has teased me to make a move on her. I could pretty much go as far as I wanted with her. Only problem shes had past events with my best friend and neither party will tell me what exactly happen (I do however respect their decision that its not my business). However I do know that it was no little thing.
I have been holding back for quite sometime now and to be honest I really just want to give in to it, and at some point I might but I still dont know right now and havent made a single move. Because of my guilt and fear of what friends will think.
Thought I just give a story to maybe give you more insight on yours ^^
Thanks for the insight, but if I were in your situation it I'd just go for it. Past events are past events; you're not living in the past are you?
In my post I mentioned getting out of a relationship. When that relationship started I knew that one of my friends had a thing for her and brought her to a party only to have another friend swoop in and sleep with her. Despite this both friends involved were very supportive when we started dating (this was about three weeks after said party).
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EPT
