EPT*** DISCLAIMER IS IN SPOILER, PLEASE READ ***
+ Show Spoiler [READ ME!] +
+ Show Spoiler [READ ME!] +
0. EVERYONE IS WELCOME TO PARTICIPATE.
I am not so egotistical to pretend my word is law and this thread should be only for my opinion. I welcome everyone to post your thoughts, advice, and opinions. I will be putting what I find to be the best advice in the OP, and all my responses to questions as well. This is to make searching for similar questions easier as we tackle more and more issues.
1. ANY RESPONSE FROM ME WILL BE MY OPINION.
I will never assert that what I am saying is absolute fact, these are merely my opinions. Like all opinions, they are biased by my personal experiences, point of view, and other biases including but not limited to : politics, religion, and morality. Keep this in mind when reading any response written by me.
2. ANY RESPONSE FROM SOMEONE ELSE IS ALSO AN OPINION.
Just making sure I cover all bases.
3. I WOULD APPRECIATE IT IF THERE WAS NO ARGUING.
Constructive discussion only. We are not here to attack each other, but to help each other.
4. WE ARE ONLY AS INFORMED AS YOU MAKE US.
We do not know you. We do not know her/him. You do. It is your job to inform us as to the issue in as objective, accurate, and complete a manner you can. This is the best way to help us help you. Feel free to clear up misconceptions.
5. RANTS AND 'VENTING' ARE WELCOME.
But, try to be somewhat reasonable and constructive. If you don't want people to respond to what you wrote, then you shouldn't have posted it on a public forum. If you want someone to listen to your problems just to talk to you about it or console you, that is fine.
6. BOTH BOY AND GIRL QUESTIONS ARE WELCOME.
As rare as it might be to see a boy blog, I think that a community full of men is probably going to produce better results for boy blogs than girl blogs, so boy or girl, it doesn't matter, post away!
7. THERE BE 'TROLLS' ABOUT.
Please don't post fake questions/fake issues. It probably won't be that clever or interesting, and you'll be wasting both of our time. I will respond to you in the same manner that you post, so if your situation seems ridiculous or bullshit, I will bullshit back. I figure it's the best balance.
With that said, I look forward to your participation in this thread! I hope you find it helpful.
I am not so egotistical to pretend my word is law and this thread should be only for my opinion. I welcome everyone to post your thoughts, advice, and opinions. I will be putting what I find to be the best advice in the OP, and all my responses to questions as well. This is to make searching for similar questions easier as we tackle more and more issues.
1. ANY RESPONSE FROM ME WILL BE MY OPINION.
I will never assert that what I am saying is absolute fact, these are merely my opinions. Like all opinions, they are biased by my personal experiences, point of view, and other biases including but not limited to : politics, religion, and morality. Keep this in mind when reading any response written by me.
2. ANY RESPONSE FROM SOMEONE ELSE IS ALSO AN OPINION.
Just making sure I cover all bases.
3. I WOULD APPRECIATE IT IF THERE WAS NO ARGUING.
Constructive discussion only. We are not here to attack each other, but to help each other.
4. WE ARE ONLY AS INFORMED AS YOU MAKE US.
We do not know you. We do not know her/him. You do. It is your job to inform us as to the issue in as objective, accurate, and complete a manner you can. This is the best way to help us help you. Feel free to clear up misconceptions.
5. RANTS AND 'VENTING' ARE WELCOME.
But, try to be somewhat reasonable and constructive. If you don't want people to respond to what you wrote, then you shouldn't have posted it on a public forum. If you want someone to listen to your problems just to talk to you about it or console you, that is fine.
6. BOTH BOY AND GIRL QUESTIONS ARE WELCOME.
As rare as it might be to see a boy blog, I think that a community full of men is probably going to produce better results for boy blogs than girl blogs, so boy or girl, it doesn't matter, post away!
7. THERE BE 'TROLLS' ABOUT.
Please don't post fake questions/fake issues. It probably won't be that clever or interesting, and you'll be wasting both of our time. I will respond to you in the same manner that you post, so if your situation seems ridiculous or bullshit, I will bullshit back. I figure it's the best balance.
With that said, I look forward to your participation in this thread! I hope you find it helpful.
Recently Chill sent me this PM:
Original message from Chill:
Listen, I appreciate what you are trying to do. I can see that you are trying to raise the quality of girl blogs and the comments in them. Personally I find this to be futile, and has actually only increased the amount of these terrible threads. I hold you personally responsible, do something about it.
Listen, I appreciate what you are trying to do. I can see that you are trying to raise the quality of girl blogs and the comments in them. Personally I find this to be futile, and has actually only increased the amount of these terrible threads. I hold you personally responsible, do something about it.
I figured the only proper counter-measure would be to open a thread that might put a stop to the plague that we have all been trying to cure. I hope that all of us together can rise above the desire to create more threads that will be open to ridicule, mocking, and Chill's disapproval. I think that this thread will help minimize some of the redundancy and clutter in the blogs section. My goal is that people consider posting their issues here instead of creating new blogs.
Okay, honestly, Chill never sent that PM. But that's okay, I am making this thread anyway. I want to direct your attention to the disclaimer at the top. If you skipped it, I strongly suggest you read it before you post. If you already read it, read it AGAIN.
You should have a good idea about what this thread is for now. If you feel like you want advice, opinions, or just someone to hear you out and talk to you about your girl/boy/relationship/seduction issue, at least 1 person (me) will help you (if and when I can ^^; ). If you have any suggestions, let me know. And remember, everyone is welcome to participate in both advice-giving and requesting.
One final thing, I am willing to put a decent amount of effort in this, I once again hope that you enjoy this thread and find it helpful!
EDIT: Anyone who I give advice to: If you like it, rate it! I want to join Liquid` proposting team ASAP.
FIGHTING!
Spotlighted Posts
+ Show Spoiler [Gosu Advice] +
On July 26 2011 03:09 StorkHwaiting wrote:
It's so damn ez to talk to girls. I don't get why anyone ever has an issue. Just get acquainted with a few of her friends. Then ask her how her friends are doing. Women can gossip for days about other women. Don't see her for a few days and she'll have a whole new batch of gossip to talk about.
On the extremely rare occasion a girl has run out of things to gossip about, bring up food or clothing or a story of some other slut you know and ask her opinion.
If she's pseudointellectual, ask her what book she's read lately and then ask her what she likes about it where she found it etc, then segue that into gossip about how dumb other bitches are who don't read books and thus again begins the chain of female gossip badmouthing of her competition for semen.
Talking to women really doesn't take any effort, thought, or anything other than mention of certain buzzwords and exhibiting signs of amusement/interest as the girl natters on forever about it. Then just posit some sort of moral position she finds appealing when she asks your opinion and continue to think about whatever it is you actually care about while she goes on talking.
It's when you actually give a shit and start trying to say something meaningful or voice actual opinions that things really go down the drain with women. But by that point you're in a relationship having sex for months now and yah.
p.s. don't talk to girls about their hobbies. that's retarded. mostly because their hobbies will be boring and if not, it doesn't matter anyway. hobbies get you on the crappy friendship tip. keep her talking about her competition. it will remind her of how much she wants semen and how many slutty conniving women are competing with her for it. her focus will be on the fact you have semen and other girls want it. this is the proper mindset to keep a woman in when talking to her. not her fucking hobbies like growing gardenias or grooming her yorkie. then she will be thinking about soil absorbancy and flea medications instead of your semen.
It's so damn ez to talk to girls. I don't get why anyone ever has an issue. Just get acquainted with a few of her friends. Then ask her how her friends are doing. Women can gossip for days about other women. Don't see her for a few days and she'll have a whole new batch of gossip to talk about.
On the extremely rare occasion a girl has run out of things to gossip about, bring up food or clothing or a story of some other slut you know and ask her opinion.
If she's pseudointellectual, ask her what book she's read lately and then ask her what she likes about it where she found it etc, then segue that into gossip about how dumb other bitches are who don't read books and thus again begins the chain of female gossip badmouthing of her competition for semen.
Talking to women really doesn't take any effort, thought, or anything other than mention of certain buzzwords and exhibiting signs of amusement/interest as the girl natters on forever about it. Then just posit some sort of moral position she finds appealing when she asks your opinion and continue to think about whatever it is you actually care about while she goes on talking.
It's when you actually give a shit and start trying to say something meaningful or voice actual opinions that things really go down the drain with women. But by that point you're in a relationship having sex for months now and yah.
p.s. don't talk to girls about their hobbies. that's retarded. mostly because their hobbies will be boring and if not, it doesn't matter anyway. hobbies get you on the crappy friendship tip. keep her talking about her competition. it will remind her of how much she wants semen and how many slutty conniving women are competing with her for it. her focus will be on the fact you have semen and other girls want it. this is the proper mindset to keep a woman in when talking to her. not her fucking hobbies like growing gardenias or grooming her yorkie. then she will be thinking about soil absorbancy and flea medications instead of your semen.
Answered questions:
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 25 2011 05:24 Hikko wrote:
I'm planning on taking a girl out for a nice dinner date, but is just dinner enough for a date, or do I need to take her somewhere else as well?
I'm planning on taking a girl out for a nice dinner date, but is just dinner enough for a date, or do I need to take her somewhere else as well?
Is this your first date? If so, you might want to set it a little earlier in the evening and discuss her interests then, and propose something based on what you find out after you gauge her desire to go and do things. If anything, you can set up something for next time. Sometimes it can be awkward to propose too many things to do when you don't know her that well.
If it's not your first date, I propose that you ask her if she wants to do something fun, like show her some of her hobbies or vice-versa, or do something before/after dinner. Asking them is the best way to choose the right activity, really (:
On July 25 2011 05:25 Roffles wrote:
I have this girl I really like, but I don't know what to do. A close friend of mine says that I should just break into her house and eat her food while watching her TV and waiting for her to come back. I'm not sure if I should listen to his advice. It seems really whack.
I come to you because you seem like a guy who would know what to do in my situation. Do I continue creeping? Or do I take action and do what my friend said?
I have this girl I really like, but I don't know what to do. A close friend of mine says that I should just break into her house and eat her food while watching her TV and waiting for her to come back. I'm not sure if I should listen to his advice. It seems really whack.
I come to you because you seem like a guy who would know what to do in my situation. Do I continue creeping? Or do I take action and do what my friend said?
Normally I don't condone 'creeping' but seeing as you are a valued member of this community, I will give you my professional advice on this matter.
Your friend clearly wants you in jail. I suggest you creep on him for a while, first of all as practice, second of all to be aware of his actions, for your own safety. He could have more devious plans in store for you than just misinformation.
I think that the best option here is to not break any laws, but rather work around them. Tail her for a few days, see what she does and when she does it. Then, start picking up on her hobbies. if she goes to the gym, time for you to go too. If she plays tennis, pick up tennis. Then, start showing up to the places she frequents and show that you have similar interests to her. This will lead to a sense of comfort, and will be a good excuse if she catches on to you creeping around.
The next step is to casually appear in places she goes for entertainment, like bars or clubs. This 'coincidence' could be sold as being romantic destiny, and from there it depends on your skills with the ladies to determine your success. GOOD LUCK!
On July 25 2011 05:28 Chairman Ray wrote:
Don't use her toilet though, girls can tell if you used their toilet
Don't use her toilet though, girls can tell if you used their toilet
On July 25 2011 05:43 Roffles wrote:
Oh man Kittens you're the best! I'll just do whatever she likes, even though I might hate it!
Oh man Kittens you're the best! I'll just do whatever she likes, even though I might hate it!
Men have sacrificed much more for vaginal intercourse, I think that you should keep that in mind. You either want it or you don't. If a few hours of doing something you hate for pussy is not something you're willing to do, then you might be in for a bitter disappointment further down the line. Marriage is basically accepting that you have to do things you hate for the rest of your life.
On July 25 2011 05:31 Bippzy wrote:
There's this adopted asian girl who I've been friends with for years and she feels like she needs extra attention(read: wants love from any guy that will give it to her) because she's adopted and has low self esteem. So i went out with her, we hooked up, I broke up with her, we hooked up some more, she got another boyfriend, they did way more stuff then I would do in high school(I'm only HJ and BJ in HS), her mom caught them, now she's single again. I'm going to a bikini party she's going to be at soon. Should I not hook up with her to try to stop her from being a slut or should I look out for myself and get me some ass?
There's this adopted asian girl who I've been friends with for years and she feels like she needs extra attention(read: wants love from any guy that will give it to her) because she's adopted and has low self esteem. So i went out with her, we hooked up, I broke up with her, we hooked up some more, she got another boyfriend, they did way more stuff then I would do in high school(I'm only HJ and BJ in HS), her mom caught them, now she's single again. I'm going to a bikini party she's going to be at soon. Should I not hook up with her to try to stop her from being a slut or should I look out for myself and get me some ass?
If you feel guilty hooking up with her, don't. If you don't, then hook up with her. If she wants it, then she already made her choice, ball's in your court. This is a morality question, and thus it is entirely up to what you think is right.
On July 25 2011 05:34 RedJustice wrote:
You not hooking up with someone won't prevent them from being a slut, that's something they do to themselves. If you care about her as a good friend, might not want to keep hooking up with her if you have no intentions. She will probably end up transferring her neediness to you, which it seems you aren't particularly interested in handling.
You not hooking up with someone won't prevent them from being a slut, that's something they do to themselves. If you care about her as a good friend, might not want to keep hooking up with her if you have no intentions. She will probably end up transferring her neediness to you, which it seems you aren't particularly interested in handling.
On July 25 2011 05:42 DanCeWithDevil wrote:
So I found out this girl I had been meeting was engaged through the grapevine. She never told me about it and when I asked her about it she said the wedding isn't going to happen and refused to tell me about the fiance or the situation. I was not sure if she was into me or not.
After a couple months of not seeing her for whatever reasons she came to my city and really wanted to see me. We met up for dinner and she was acting like she really liked me, showing direct interest. I see an engagement ring on her ring finger that had to be worth atleast 40,000$. I ask her with a confident jeering smile "what the fuck is that?" and she says its her engagement ring but refuses once again to talk about it at all. I press her a bit and she acts really weird and keeps trying to change the subject. Whatever I oblige we have a simple night but I tell her I have other plans and leave because I get a weird feeling.
There is no contact between us for a few days then like 4 days later she calls me up saying 'lets hang out.'
We meet up and she grabs my arm instantly in the street walking as if I'm her boyfriend or whatevs. I'm thinking 'man this is weird.' I look at her in the eyes then at her arm holding mine then back at her and say "What the fuck is this?" She replies "I don't know," and gives a girly smile.
We get to this lounge-type drinking place and after we sit down indian style I notice she still has that ring on...
Whats my game plan from this point on?
So I found out this girl I had been meeting was engaged through the grapevine. She never told me about it and when I asked her about it she said the wedding isn't going to happen and refused to tell me about the fiance or the situation. I was not sure if she was into me or not.
After a couple months of not seeing her for whatever reasons she came to my city and really wanted to see me. We met up for dinner and she was acting like she really liked me, showing direct interest. I see an engagement ring on her ring finger that had to be worth atleast 40,000$. I ask her with a confident jeering smile "what the fuck is that?" and she says its her engagement ring but refuses once again to talk about it at all. I press her a bit and she acts really weird and keeps trying to change the subject. Whatever I oblige we have a simple night but I tell her I have other plans and leave because I get a weird feeling.
There is no contact between us for a few days then like 4 days later she calls me up saying 'lets hang out.'
We meet up and she grabs my arm instantly in the street walking as if I'm her boyfriend or whatevs. I'm thinking 'man this is weird.' I look at her in the eyes then at her arm holding mine then back at her and say "What the fuck is this?" She replies "I don't know," and gives a girly smile.
We get to this lounge-type drinking place and after we sit down indian style I notice she still has that ring on...
Whats my game plan from this point on?
To me it seems like she just wants to have you on the side for now, before she has to commit forever to one guy. Fear of commitment is very typical in both men and women who are about to be married, hence the raunchy bachelor/bachelorette parties. Unfortunately this is a very immature mentality, because if she is willing to cheat before marriage, she will be willing to cheat after, most likely. This is once again a moral issue, so the answer lies within yourself. If you're willing to let her get her fix of cock before she gets married despite the fact that it's still cheating, then do so. If you'd feel guilty, then don't.
On July 25 2011 06:02 DanCeWithDevil wrote:
Guys I'm not asking for your silly advice about long term expectations etc. lmao.
I'm just asking how do I get laid that night in that situation with that sort of creature.
Guys I'm not asking for your silly advice about long term expectations etc. lmao.
I'm just asking how do I get laid that night in that situation with that sort of creature.
Flirt back, show interest, stop asking about the marriage. Go out for a few drinks, take her back to your place, set yourself to sit next to her, make your move (this is assuming she hasn't already). If she is not cool with this and was merely trying to lead you on for the sake of some internal insecurity or commitment issue, she needs to get the fuck out of your house and your life.
+ Show Spoiler [Further discussion with DanCeWithDevil] +
On July 25 2011 06:21 DanCeWithDevil wrote:
Later on in the night I ended up kissing her somehow, not for too long because the place was relatively empty and we were out in the open for the bored workers to stare.
She asked me "what do you want?" to which I replied "thats a complicated question..what do you want?" she said "lets just have a casual relationship." I said "uhh I'm not sure what you mean by that and I think I have two of those already anyways." she replied "well then have another one."
We finalize, I call my private driver to come pick us up, I pay the bill, then we go outside. I called my driver he said he'd be there in less than a minute. Shes holding my arm acting all lovey-dovey and I feel like "GG I'm getting laid."
Then she suddenly takes off running through the rain and jumps in a cab closes the door and drives off.
WTF?
Later on in the night I ended up kissing her somehow, not for too long because the place was relatively empty and we were out in the open for the bored workers to stare.
She asked me "what do you want?" to which I replied "thats a complicated question..what do you want?" she said "lets just have a casual relationship." I said "uhh I'm not sure what you mean by that and I think I have two of those already anyways." she replied "well then have another one."
We finalize, I call my private driver to come pick us up, I pay the bill, then we go outside. I called my driver he said he'd be there in less than a minute. Shes holding my arm acting all lovey-dovey and I feel like "GG I'm getting laid."
Then she suddenly takes off running through the rain and jumps in a cab closes the door and drives off.
WTF?
On July 25 2011 06:26 DanCeWithDevil wrote:
Okay, this is exactly what I thought too. But 2 days later (no contact till then again) she skype's me and tells me I should invite her to my place.
WTF?
Okay, this is exactly what I thought too. But 2 days later (no contact till then again) she skype's me and tells me I should invite her to my place.
WTF?
Women are fickle creatures with their own insecurities and oddities, just like men. They only manifest differently.
On July 25 2011 06:39 DanCeWithDevil wrote:
Yeah, I definitely wasn't going to do it. Then I was drunk at 4 AM one morning and texted her saying she can come over now. She came over and got all serious mode on me. Asking me "what do you want?" again. I asked "Right this moment?" she said "yeah" so I said "A blowjob" with a cocky shrug. She said "IS THAT ALL YOU WANT?" To which I said "Nah I wouldn't mind sex either but I'm pretty worn out from drinking all night." She asked again "Is that all you really want from me?" I said "Yeah in this moment." Then we kissed me again but would not let me progress to the breasts or any other areas. So I'm like "what..." and she says "I'm leaving the country to vegas tomorrow. If you want me to postpone my flight and get together tell me now."
Whats my move? (though I don't mind getting with a girl who has a BF that I do not know...its against my morals to fake some 'relationship' to get laid.)
Yeah, I definitely wasn't going to do it. Then I was drunk at 4 AM one morning and texted her saying she can come over now. She came over and got all serious mode on me. Asking me "what do you want?" again. I asked "Right this moment?" she said "yeah" so I said "A blowjob" with a cocky shrug. She said "IS THAT ALL YOU WANT?" To which I said "Nah I wouldn't mind sex either but I'm pretty worn out from drinking all night." She asked again "Is that all you really want from me?" I said "Yeah in this moment." Then we kissed me again but would not let me progress to the breasts or any other areas. So I'm like "what..." and she says "I'm leaving the country to vegas tomorrow. If you want me to postpone my flight and get together tell me now."
Whats my move? (though I don't mind getting with a girl who has a BF that I do not know...its against my morals to fake some 'relationship' to get laid.)
Then don't do it. None of your new stories really change the situation at all.
On July 25 2011 05:54 obesechicken13 wrote:
This question is a bit general, but if a girl doesn't like you for a long time even though you like her, do you move on or work on yourself and try again later given a better opportunity/time?
This question is a bit general, but if a girl doesn't like you for a long time even though you like her, do you move on or work on yourself and try again later given a better opportunity/time?
As you said this question is very obtuse, and therefore it's impossible to give a concrete answer. Both of those are viable options in theory, but depending on the situation, one might be way more likely/productive than the other.
In general, I feel that if your feelings are unrequited and the girl is aware of them, you are pretty screwed. It is uncomfortable for anyone to know that their friend is romantically interested in them - sometimes they might even think that is the entirety of the relationship in the other person's mind. This usually leads to awkwardness, assumption, and eventual dissolution of the friendship. There are and always will be exceptions, but I find this to be the case more often than not. If she wasn't interested in you until now, any change you make will only seem like you are doing it only to change her mind (which you are), and as romantic as that may seem, it comes off as desperate and thus distasteful. I suggest moving on in this case, there will be someone out there who appreciates you for who you are and you will not have to change yourself to make the relationship work.
Sometimes, especially if you two are not that close yet, and the interest is not yet disclosed, you have a lot more leeway to change your approach and potentially be more successful. This is on a case-by-case basis, however.
On July 25 2011 06:03 RedJustice wrote:
Depends on why the girl doesn't like you:
- A reason you can change:
Evaluate it. Is it something stupid and superficial like your appearance? Unless you're grossly obese, she's not someone worth dating anyway. Is it something integral to who you are as a person? She's not worth dating anyway, don't change. Is it something you do that's harmful to others? (smoking/gang violence/shit that will land you in jail) Consider changing this if you care about her a ton.
- A situation in her life you don't control:
Does she have a boyfriend? If you really think it's worth waiting, you can hang around and see how long it lasts. Be warned it might last forever and decide how long you care to wait ahead of time. Is she going through a shitty situation with personal/family issues? Depending on what it is, it might be worth waiting for a while and being there as friendly support while she gets through it. This gets you pointspointspoints for later on. If it's a long term issue as opposed to one that will go away in a few months, consider moving on.
- She's just not interested in you.
Move on. Maybe in a few years you will be two different people and she'll be interested. For now it's as futile as building a ladder to the sun. You're better off meeting other girls rather than moping over her.
Depends on why the girl doesn't like you:
- A reason you can change:
Evaluate it. Is it something stupid and superficial like your appearance? Unless you're grossly obese, she's not someone worth dating anyway. Is it something integral to who you are as a person? She's not worth dating anyway, don't change. Is it something you do that's harmful to others? (smoking/gang violence/shit that will land you in jail) Consider changing this if you care about her a ton.
- A situation in her life you don't control:
Does she have a boyfriend? If you really think it's worth waiting, you can hang around and see how long it lasts. Be warned it might last forever and decide how long you care to wait ahead of time. Is she going through a shitty situation with personal/family issues? Depending on what it is, it might be worth waiting for a while and being there as friendly support while she gets through it. This gets you pointspointspoints for later on. If it's a long term issue as opposed to one that will go away in a few months, consider moving on.
- She's just not interested in you.
Move on. Maybe in a few years you will be two different people and she'll be interested. For now it's as futile as building a ladder to the sun. You're better off meeting other girls rather than moping over her.
On July 25 2011 06:04 Ravencruiser wrote:
Seriousment question:
How do you get an uptight N.A. born Asian girlfriend to do drugs and have anal sex with you?
Your opinion is appreciated.
Seriousment question:
How do you get an uptight N.A. born Asian girlfriend to do drugs and have anal sex with you?
Your opinion is appreciated.
You don't, you accept her for who she is, and if you can't do that then you should not be going out with her. I recently heard somewhere (I don't remember where, sorry if it is a TL member) that every relationship has an admittance fee, and that may be the fact that you have to give up smoking, anal sex, drugs, video games, whatever it may be. The question is whether or not you are willing to pay the price.
If she is unwilling to pay the price of being with a boyfriend who wants to have anal sex and do drugs with his girlfriend, she should call it quits. If you are unwilling to accept her not wanting to have anal sex and do drugs, call it quits.
In my personal experience, she will do drugs when she is ready for them. It happened to my ex after we stopped going out, and though I was pissed (she was completely against me doing drugs while we were dating), it was just a natural development. Anal will probably happen by accident eventually anyways, so you can hope something slips at some point, but more likely than not you won't change her mind by pressuring her. If anything, you pressuring her will make her more unlikely to succumb.
On July 25 2011 06:53 Endymion wrote:
I'm in love with a girl but whenever she beats me in a 1v1 I hit her to divert my anger away from starting a balance discussion on TL.. On one hand we have abuse, on the other we have balance disucssions... what should I do?
I'm in love with a girl but whenever she beats me in a 1v1 I hit her to divert my anger away from starting a balance discussion on TL.. On one hand we have abuse, on the other we have balance disucssions... what should I do?
I think that you should ladder more and get better, then you won't have to hit her. I think that you know this option exists but also know that hitting her is more fun, so I don't think you really want advice. Balance discussions are like 99% of gaming advice anyway, in the sense that they achieve nothing and don't change your playstyle anyways. At least abuse produces bruises, feelings, and sometimes laughter :D
On July 25 2011 07:03 Frozenhelfire wrote:
I'm pretty uninteresting. I consider myself above average intelligence here in the United States, and all I do is basically spend time on the computer or at school. What is some activity to either do or get good at so I have something interesting to go into conversations with the general woman* would find interesting? I'm pretty awkward so the "go out and have a good time!" wouldn't be good advice for me. I also just moved, so I don't really have friends here.
*I say this not because I want a general woman as a girlfriend. I would prefer one with similar interests, but I think I would be hard pressed to get involved enough in a conversation without some other things to talk about first.
I'm pretty uninteresting. I consider myself above average intelligence here in the United States, and all I do is basically spend time on the computer or at school. What is some activity to either do or get good at so I have something interesting to go into conversations with the general woman* would find interesting? I'm pretty awkward so the "go out and have a good time!" wouldn't be good advice for me. I also just moved, so I don't really have friends here.
*I say this not because I want a general woman as a girlfriend. I would prefer one with similar interests, but I think I would be hard pressed to get involved enough in a conversation without some other things to talk about first.
Describing yourself as uninteresting and of average intelligence are your first issue. You should have more self-respect than that. Work on that first.
To more directly answer your question, you should read literature. This makes you mature into a more worldly person, expands your vocabulary, gives you a better sense of at least scripted interaction, and gives you a topic to talk about with the few other people who enjoy reading in this world. Personally I find women who read literature to be my cup of tea, for the same reasons that reading literature would be beneficial for you. Besides that, you can consider sports and other activities that are easy to get involved in around town.
If you don't know many people in your area, you have no choice but to go to social events and locations and strike up conversations with people. By doing this you will improve your conversation skills and your confidence will hopefully go up. Also, you will be more likely to make friends and meet women this way than you would be by sitting at home. This advice works only as well as you are willing to follow it.
On July 25 2011 07:25 RedJustice wrote:
Unless you have no nerdy passions related to school and/or your computer time, I'd say you don't need to bother doing something else for the purpose of attracting a woman. As long as you have some maturity, put some effort into work/school, and have good hygiene, it's not important that you have specific interests but more so that you have some. Depending on how crazy your interests are, it might take longer to find a woman who shares or at least appreciates them.
If you really have no interests at all, learn to play an instrument, follow a sport or an esport, find some subject that you can get really excited about, read books... anything really that you can be passionate about.
As for have a convo with women (or anyone for that matter, since you just moved)-- observe something they are doing or talking about and ask about it. If they just look nice and are sitting there, say hi, introduce yourself, and ask what they like to do/if they play any sports/any games/etc. LISTEN (pro tip for talking with women-- they like when you listen to them talk about themselves). Once they are done talking about their interests, this is the point where you either sequence into something related that you enjoy, or they will just ask you what your interests are. Tell them. They will ask questions. Continue this pattern of listening and talking back. ??? Profit.
Unless you have no nerdy passions related to school and/or your computer time, I'd say you don't need to bother doing something else for the purpose of attracting a woman. As long as you have some maturity, put some effort into work/school, and have good hygiene, it's not important that you have specific interests but more so that you have some. Depending on how crazy your interests are, it might take longer to find a woman who shares or at least appreciates them.
If you really have no interests at all, learn to play an instrument, follow a sport or an esport, find some subject that you can get really excited about, read books... anything really that you can be passionate about.
As for have a convo with women (or anyone for that matter, since you just moved)-- observe something they are doing or talking about and ask about it. If they just look nice and are sitting there, say hi, introduce yourself, and ask what they like to do/if they play any sports/any games/etc. LISTEN (pro tip for talking with women-- they like when you listen to them talk about themselves). Once they are done talking about their interests, this is the point where you either sequence into something related that you enjoy, or they will just ask you what your interests are. Tell them. They will ask questions. Continue this pattern of listening and talking back. ??? Profit.
On July 25 2011 08:06 DanCeWithDevil wrote:
Doing an activity in itself isn't going to change your situation (though it will give you opportunities). Women simply want a well rounded individual who is confident in everything they do, even if they don't do much at all.
The fact that you don't have much to talk about yourself is almost a blessing in disguise. No man ever gets a girl by talking about himself much (or at all). Try and think of questions you could ask a random girl to learn a little about her and get her to open up. All girls will open up verbally if you ask the right questions unless they are repulsed by you in the first place. It takes time and practice to learn on how to keep the conversation going. Wit with women is a natural talent for some, but it's a learned art for most.
Doing an activity in itself isn't going to change your situation (though it will give you opportunities). Women simply want a well rounded individual who is confident in everything they do, even if they don't do much at all.
The fact that you don't have much to talk about yourself is almost a blessing in disguise. No man ever gets a girl by talking about himself much (or at all). Try and think of questions you could ask a random girl to learn a little about her and get her to open up. All girls will open up verbally if you ask the right questions unless they are repulsed by you in the first place. It takes time and practice to learn on how to keep the conversation going. Wit with women is a natural talent for some, but it's a learned art for most.
To add to this, I want to say that it's sometimes dangerous to ask too many questions. People love to talk about themselves but they don't like being interrogated. Plus, it will make the conversation very one-sided and you should always strive for a more balanced exchange.
On July 25 2011 07:32 DanCeWithDevil wrote:
Alright, here's something that's an actual question and not a mere story about a confused hooker wandering through life.
So 2 years ago I had a roommate and he was madly in love with his GF and so was she. She came over all the time and they had like ritualistic fights. 2-5 times a week there'd be some big fight in his room involving her doing all the screaming and crying and I never really heard much from him but he was surely saying things. He'd often storm out and go drinking and leave her at home and come home and then they'd have sex and be all happy again. Sometimes he'd just stay home but the end result was always the same. Fight --> Fuck --> Happy. It's a very strange relationship and they both are really cool people but they got some weird shit going on.
So I'm minding my own business playing some 4v4 BGH and the screaming begins again. Whatevs just another day in their life. He storms out of the house this time. About 1 hour later she comes into the doorway of my computer room and is just standing there and says "This is the last time we will ever see eachother." I'm like "Uh ok." and continue spawning hydralisks. She still is standing there in the doorway and she says it again "I'm serious this is the last time we will see eachother." I look at her like 'WTF' and say "OK." She backs out of the doorway back to his room. I go out to get a drink and see shes cracked open a bottle of wine and is over 3/4ths done with it. 30 mins later she comes back in the computer room and comes behind me and starts massaging my shoulders and is almost reaching down to my pecs with her hands and says again "seriously this is the last time we will have a chance to see eachother..." She's obviously drunk but not blackout drunk but I don't think she's ever touched me in her life before this. I grab her hands kinda throw them off of me and tell her "OK we will never see eachother again thats fine you are drunk please go away." She goes back into the room and shuts the door.
I go to bed a bit later but the next day my roommate is back and they wake up after me and they obviously completed the ritual again...everything was back to happy normal.
They are blatantly in love but are both a little crazy. Do I tell him what happened?
Alright, here's something that's an actual question and not a mere story about a confused hooker wandering through life.
So 2 years ago I had a roommate and he was madly in love with his GF and so was she. She came over all the time and they had like ritualistic fights. 2-5 times a week there'd be some big fight in his room involving her doing all the screaming and crying and I never really heard much from him but he was surely saying things. He'd often storm out and go drinking and leave her at home and come home and then they'd have sex and be all happy again. Sometimes he'd just stay home but the end result was always the same. Fight --> Fuck --> Happy. It's a very strange relationship and they both are really cool people but they got some weird shit going on.
So I'm minding my own business playing some 4v4 BGH and the screaming begins again. Whatevs just another day in their life. He storms out of the house this time. About 1 hour later she comes into the doorway of my computer room and is just standing there and says "This is the last time we will ever see eachother." I'm like "Uh ok." and continue spawning hydralisks. She still is standing there in the doorway and she says it again "I'm serious this is the last time we will see eachother." I look at her like 'WTF' and say "OK." She backs out of the doorway back to his room. I go out to get a drink and see shes cracked open a bottle of wine and is over 3/4ths done with it. 30 mins later she comes back in the computer room and comes behind me and starts massaging my shoulders and is almost reaching down to my pecs with her hands and says again "seriously this is the last time we will have a chance to see eachother..." She's obviously drunk but not blackout drunk but I don't think she's ever touched me in her life before this. I grab her hands kinda throw them off of me and tell her "OK we will never see eachother again thats fine you are drunk please go away." She goes back into the room and shuts the door.
I go to bed a bit later but the next day my roommate is back and they wake up after me and they obviously completed the ritual again...everything was back to happy normal.
They are blatantly in love but are both a little crazy. Do I tell him what happened?
This is a moral issue.
Do you feel that what she did is wrong enough to warrant their relationship to end? If yes, tell him. If not, then no.
EDIT: This happened 2 years ago? And they are still going out? Or are you asking whether or not you should have told him? Now that it's 2 years ago, I doubt that it would matter or that he would believe you.
On July 25 2011 07:41 DanCeWithDevil wrote:
But should I have told him? Not that you could give me the answer because you're obviously a girl or pretending to be one based on your replies in this thread. I'd like a guy who's well aware of the man code to answer this...it's a pretty touchy situation...
But should I have told him? Not that you could give me the answer because you're obviously a girl or pretending to be one based on your replies in this thread. I'd like a guy who's well aware of the man code to answer this...it's a pretty touchy situation...
If you are going by bro code, then yes you should have told him. If he is a true bro, he will take your word over hers. I believe in living by your own sense of morality, however.
On July 25 2011 08:27 Bereft wrote:
Okay.
So last weekend, I thought I was just going to be hanging out with ILK at this nice lounge where my friend had bought a bottle of Goose. But when ILK finally arrived, turns out he brought a friend! Usually, I would be deeply disappointed to not get 1 on 1 time with ILK (as who could not enjoy bathing in the presence of the girl blog master himself?), but when he finally introduced his friend, it was impossible for me to be disappointed. Because standing in front of me was the most beautiful Korean boy I had ever seen. But to my dismay, as he says to ILK, "ILOVEKITTENS! I didn't expect to see you here, what's up?" I notice that he already has two skinny bitches on his arm. We engage in conversation; to me, he is the most perfect male specimen I have ever seen, and not only that: we have the common interest of Starcraft to boot!
It seems to me that this boy is a player, but I can't help being attracted to him. What should I do?
Okay.
So last weekend, I thought I was just going to be hanging out with ILK at this nice lounge where my friend had bought a bottle of Goose. But when ILK finally arrived, turns out he brought a friend! Usually, I would be deeply disappointed to not get 1 on 1 time with ILK (as who could not enjoy bathing in the presence of the girl blog master himself?), but when he finally introduced his friend, it was impossible for me to be disappointed. Because standing in front of me was the most beautiful Korean boy I had ever seen. But to my dismay, as he says to ILK, "ILOVEKITTENS! I didn't expect to see you here, what's up?" I notice that he already has two skinny bitches on his arm. We engage in conversation; to me, he is the most perfect male specimen I have ever seen, and not only that: we have the common interest of Starcraft to boot!
It seems to me that this boy is a player, but I can't help being attracted to him. What should I do?
I heard roofies are really strong nowadays, I think that with a player of that caliber they are your only option.
On July 25 2011 08:59 Probe1 wrote:
How can I be more objective in relationships? My last ex stole my bloody motorcycle before I realized how crazy she was. I should have seen it coming. Having a romantic state of mind has always come easier to me than my friends but this has taught me a lesson in missing the bigger picture.
So, how does one avoid love tinted glasses.
How can I be more objective in relationships? My last ex stole my bloody motorcycle before I realized how crazy she was. I should have seen it coming. Having a romantic state of mind has always come easier to me than my friends but this has taught me a lesson in missing the bigger picture.
So, how does one avoid love tinted glasses.
When something seems even the slightest bit off to you in terms of equality in the relationship or excessive allowance for inappropriate behavior, you imagine how you would react if your mother, sister, or friend were in your girlfriend's position. Would you tolerate it? How would it make you feel? How would you react? That is closer to your true sense of right than the skewed perspective that we tend to adopt when we are enamored with another. Another option is to think about it this way: what if your best friend came to you, told you about what his (your) girlfriend did, and asked you if you think it was acceptable. Dissociate yourself from your attachment to her as entirely as possible for the sake of clear thought. Ignore your history, feelings for her, or any excuses she gives and view the action as being more defining of who you are dating than what your feelings are for each other or what you say to each other. "Actions speak louder than words."
To elaborate on this, only unstable/immature people take advantage of/hurt people they truly love. The more likely explanation is that the person either isn't in love, or merely thinks they are in love.
It happens to all of us somehow. Separate the mind from the heart to be a more objective person.
On July 25 2011 09:30 CecilSunkure wrote:
I have been dating a girl for a year now. As time passes on she becomes more and more irritable, getting very angry and upset over things that she can choose to let pass. I've tried talking with her about how she treats me when anything goes wrong, whether it's related to the relationship or not, but she just doesn't change anything.
When something gets her upset or angry, no matter what it is, she ends up taking it out on me. Most of the time it's something that I couldn't control in any way, or foresee. Most of these incidents she really can just let pass, but instead chooses to become upset over it sometimes for days on end.
I try talking with her, try to work through the problem with her, I try changing things I do to make an impact; nothing is making a difference. She keeps ending up hurting me day after day, often times ruining an entire day over an incident that can either easily be solved or forgotten.
The worst thing is that whenever she's in an angry or upset state, she completely misses everything I try to do to make sure she feels cared and loved for. Then she ends up feeling like I ignore and don't care about her because I don't show it (I tell her all the time however).
Is there any advice that can be given? Feel free to ask more questions.
I have been dating a girl for a year now. As time passes on she becomes more and more irritable, getting very angry and upset over things that she can choose to let pass. I've tried talking with her about how she treats me when anything goes wrong, whether it's related to the relationship or not, but she just doesn't change anything.
When something gets her upset or angry, no matter what it is, she ends up taking it out on me. Most of the time it's something that I couldn't control in any way, or foresee. Most of these incidents she really can just let pass, but instead chooses to become upset over it sometimes for days on end.
I try talking with her, try to work through the problem with her, I try changing things I do to make an impact; nothing is making a difference. She keeps ending up hurting me day after day, often times ruining an entire day over an incident that can either easily be solved or forgotten.
The worst thing is that whenever she's in an angry or upset state, she completely misses everything I try to do to make sure she feels cared and loved for. Then she ends up feeling like I ignore and don't care about her because I don't show it (I tell her all the time however).
Is there any advice that can be given? Feel free to ask more questions.
This is a classic abusive relationship. From what I can see, it is a very one-way affair. What I mean by this is she reaps the benefits of having an aegis to fall back on, whereas you get all the problems and pain for no reward. In any imbalanced relationship in which the offended party tried to resolve the issue but failed, the next logical choice is separation. I think this is the only solution for you right now. If I were in your position, I would begin to doubt whether she loved you, and whether she was sane, because she is displaying qualities that go against both states.
What you could try to do is write her a letter in which you explain to her all the reasons why you think that this relationship is unhealthy for you. As you are writing it will be easier to make a full list without any emotional interruptions. She will also not be able to interrupt you or ignore you in a letter. End the letter saying that if things don't change, you can't go on this way, and that you will have to break up. If she can't handle it, then the relationship is over, as it should be in that case. If she can, then you get the right to police her and tell her when she is reverting back to her ways.
No matter the outcome, remember that the likelihood is insanely high that there is someone better for you out there. Best of luck, stand up for yourself, FIGHTING!
On July 25 2011 09:42 YouGotNothin wrote:
I was in a relationship very similar to this in high school. The girl I was dating would get mad about the smallest things almost every day. IMO I think this is something immature people do in relationships to feel like they have control over someone. It sucks because you work really hard to make her feel better but it never really seems to work for long, right?
I would suggest giving her the silent treatment if she keeps complaining and not listening to your appeals. Just act like you don't care about her being upset. Once she isn't getting your attention she will freak out, but you need to hold your ground until she realizes she is being ridiculous. If she can't be more mature about things, this relationship will just be a lot of stress and pain for you.
I was in a relationship very similar to this in high school. The girl I was dating would get mad about the smallest things almost every day. IMO I think this is something immature people do in relationships to feel like they have control over someone. It sucks because you work really hard to make her feel better but it never really seems to work for long, right?
I would suggest giving her the silent treatment if she keeps complaining and not listening to your appeals. Just act like you don't care about her being upset. Once she isn't getting your attention she will freak out, but you need to hold your ground until she realizes she is being ridiculous. If she can't be more mature about things, this relationship will just be a lot of stress and pain for you.
On July 25 2011 09:54 YouGotNothin wrote:
Alright, my turn.
About four weeks ago a girl I was dating for about a month abruptly broke up with me. She stated that she just found out an ex-boyfriend she still had feelings for was moving to where we live. She thought he was moving somewhere else before this and thus thought it would be safe to start dating me. I at first told her I understood and wasn't mad at her because she seemed very upset about the pretty shitty thing she did to me.
I did not think it would take long to get over her, but for some reason I have just been very angry at what she did to me. We have hung out in a totally platonic way a couple times since the break up because she still wants to be friends, but I don't think I can keep doing this.
Should I be angry at her for starting a relationship with me with so much emotional baggage in tow? Or should I try and be just friends with her? And lastly if things don't work out with her ex (she hinted this may happen) should I take her back? She seemed like a really cool girl, but I don't know if I could forgive her for this.
Alright, my turn.
About four weeks ago a girl I was dating for about a month abruptly broke up with me. She stated that she just found out an ex-boyfriend she still had feelings for was moving to where we live. She thought he was moving somewhere else before this and thus thought it would be safe to start dating me. I at first told her I understood and wasn't mad at her because she seemed very upset about the pretty shitty thing she did to me.
I did not think it would take long to get over her, but for some reason I have just been very angry at what she did to me. We have hung out in a totally platonic way a couple times since the break up because she still wants to be friends, but I don't think I can keep doing this.
Should I be angry at her for starting a relationship with me with so much emotional baggage in tow? Or should I try and be just friends with her? And lastly if things don't work out with her ex (she hinted this may happen) should I take her back? She seemed like a really cool girl, but I don't know if I could forgive her for this.
I think you definitely have the right to be angry.
Many young people don't see relationships as being serious things. I tend to view them as serious. Hence, if you are going to go out with someone, you should like them more than anyone else. If this is not true, then it's not a relationship worth having and she acted in a completely immature way.
I think that it is not healthy for you to hang out with her.
Even though you did nothing wrong, she has slighted you pretty badly. I don't think a person who could do that to you and is that immature should have a part in your life. I think that your feelings for her won't improve things either. Getting some distance will clear your mind and give you some more perspective on just how much she fucked shit up. She basically lost her favorite toy, bought a new one, then when she found the first toy she threw the second away. That is fucked up, the second toy (you) has feelings and thought that she had feelings for it (you) too. That kind of betrayal is not easily forgotten or undone.
I don't think you should take her back if they break up.
If she did this, she has the potential to do something just as fucked up in the future. Hopefully it will teach her something.
I think you should forgive her.
As wrong, insensitive, and immature as she is, she should be forgiven. The same level of emotions that make you still like her somewhat despite the shit she did to you are probably what caused her to break up with you and go back to her ex in the first place. Her position is completely wrong, but understandable. Because of this, I think that forgiveness would be better for both of you. I have forgiven girls who have wronged me before, and then told them I never wanted to speak with them in the same conversation, and my life was the better for it. It helped me let go and forget, it helped them move on and feel less guilt and more responsibility, which in turn makes them a better person (I hope, I guess I wouldn't know lol). Even as a friend, I would not trust this person.
Sorry that this happened man, it's rough. Keep your chin up! FIGHTING!
On July 25 2011 09:59 CecilSunkure wrote:
If I may...
It sounds to me like the girl doesn't exactly know what she wants, and as such hasn't given you a solid answer as to whether or not you can be together. From experiences of both mine and my elders, it's best to just let go of people that do this. Ask yourself: do you really want to be with a girl that abruptly leaves you, and then leaves you wondering if you still have a shot? To me it sounds like your time can be better spent with less pining over her in your days.
If I may...
It sounds to me like the girl doesn't exactly know what she wants, and as such hasn't given you a solid answer as to whether or not you can be together. From experiences of both mine and my elders, it's best to just let go of people that do this. Ask yourself: do you really want to be with a girl that abruptly leaves you, and then leaves you wondering if you still have a shot? To me it sounds like your time can be better spent with less pining over her in your days.
On July 25 2011 09:56 Logginurkeyz wrote:
Dear ILK- I have an intriguing / confusing / borderline moral dilemma on my hands!
+ Show Spoiler [TL;DR version] +
ANYWAYS- point I'm gettin at here is, is it morally reprehensible to pursue my mother's boyfriend's daughter as a love interest? If they do end up married, she would be my step-sister and that would just seem really weird to me. On the other hand, I am clearly across the threshold for further pursuit if I so choose. Do I go for a relationship, or a friends-with-benefits kinda thing? Do you think that would be a terrible thing to do a girl?
So yesterday was my mother's party for her 50th birthday. She got all kinds of neat shit, including a bag full of 50 of everything (super cool gift, imo)! She has been dating this guy for a while, and he has a quite attractive daughter my age. This is where the moral dilemma begins, but develops further...
My mother pulled me aside before the party had even started and told me, 'please don't fight with [her] today.' Historically, this girl and I are water and oil- we have our moments, but we don't mix... The entire day I had my tryhard on, trying not to upset her in any way- which became easier as the day wore on.
She had a particularly strong perfume on, and her hair looked really nice and really framed her face well. We chatted a bit about work- what the two of us do; how she is also in the automotive industry (I am a parts fabricator, she is a warranty admin); and what our commutes are like in the morning... Overall, a pleasant exchange.
We go inside to the A/C and drink in the kitchen for a bit- all the while she is throwing absurd body language at me and tapping her feet against my leg on the ottoman between us. She goes down the hall, and my buddy comes into the kitchen, shaking his head.
He imposes, "God damn, [my name]- just fuckin kiss her already... I see your eyes, you're in love with her."
'Historically, we haven't gotten along at all, dude. I'm just tryin to be pleasant.'
"Bullshit, you're such a bad liar."
'So I'm the book, now, eh? Tell me narrator, what do you read of her?'
"She is trying too hard to act uninterested. Man the fuck up!"
Then she gets a phone call. Enter confusing / moral dilemma part...
I overhear some of what she says, as we are sitting right next to each other- she is trying to give directions to the house. I ask her where the person is coming from, and I give directions which are relayed to the person on the phone.
She hangs up and says, '[he] says he will probably be here in an hour.'
I respond, "that your boyfriend?"
'Well, ummm...'
'I see...'
This confused the shit out of me for a while, until I had observed their behavior together. When he arrived, she gave him one of those awkward half-hugs with one arm as she looked away from him towards the people at the party. This body language tells me she isn't exactly comfortable with him yet, or just something else which is way over my head.
Move forward 2 hours or so- we (us young people) are all sitting around our own little circular table, drinking, playin cards. At this time, we are sitting in the following order around the table (apologies for this confusing diagram) :: [her] [her friend][me][my buddy]; so my buddy and her friend are on either side of her. I get up to get a beer, and they play musical chairs on me- at which point she has taken my seat... New order: [her friend] [her] [me] [my buddy]. So she moved such that she was sitting between her friend and me, rather than across the table from me.
After a time, we move this party to inside where there is A/C. So here we sit, at the kitchen table (rectangular): [my buddy] [her] / [me] / [her friend] [her father] / [my mother]
We are just drinking, having an unimportant conversation, and eventually decide to play Asshole (the card game). That game goes on until her friend decides to leave- then the rest of us chill in the A/C and drink some more. Her body language around her friend appears as though he is just a good friend she brought over to deter any kind of advances, but he is no longer at the party.
I go outside to bask in the cool summer air and have a cigarette in my solitude. Door opens, she walks out, so much for cigarette by myself (she doesn't smoke, and it rather annoys her when it blows in her general direction- I apologized for my smoke blowing at her several times throughout the day). We sit at a table in the backyard, chat for a bit, then start wandering around the yard.
Enter confusing / moral dilemma part 3: She takes my hand while we are walking around the yard, I slowly spin her as if we were dancing and yadda yadda yadda... We dance to absolutely no music for 10 minutes, at which point we end up making out in the backyard. Could have been a product of her drinking girly drinks all night, or maybe I finally managed to get her to warm up to me- either way, I was fuckin rollin with it!
After this, we return to the frozen realm of the indoors where the A/C is set to like 65degF. People are leaving, I have to give my buddy a ride home, and she is gettin ready to leave as well... I walk her out to her car while my buddy and my brother are lallygagging (apparently, that's how you spell that word...) in the kitchen. I give her a hug and a confusingly passionate good-night kiss (I pretty much leaned on her into the car)... My buddy walks outside with his daughter and car-seat and ruins the moment by coming up to me and slappin me on the shoulder, "yeah, [my name]! bout damn time!" We all laugh, she smiles shyly and gets in her car and drives off...
I let my buddy drive my vehicle to his place, then I drive home. As I walk into the house, I am greeted by my sister and her boyfriend informing me that I smell rather girly... Oh shit! I smell like her perfume! I chalk it up to bein with her all day, and try to dismiss it as nothing.
Fast forward to this morning- my sister asks if my shirt still smells like [her] perfume. I didn't notice it while walking through my room, so I just said it didn't. I received no regretful text messages from her- only one that was asking me if she left something at my mother's house (I wasn't there to look, so I just told her to ask my mom). Apparently, she had left her camera there. What is it with women and losing cameras? I bought my mother a really nice camera for her birthday (with the 2 year black-tie full replacement warranty), because I expect these things to happen...
ANYWAYS- point I'm gettin at here is, is it morally reprehensible to pursue my mother's boyfriend's daughter as a love interest? If they do end up married, she would be my step-sister and that would just seem really weird to me. On the other hand, I am clearly across the threshold for further pursuit if I so choose. Do I go for a relationship, or a friends-with-benefits kinda thing? Do you think that would be a terrible thing to do a girl?
Dear ILK- I have an intriguing / confusing / borderline moral dilemma on my hands!
+ Show Spoiler [TL;DR version] +
ANYWAYS- point I'm gettin at here is, is it morally reprehensible to pursue my mother's boyfriend's daughter as a love interest? If they do end up married, she would be my step-sister and that would just seem really weird to me. On the other hand, I am clearly across the threshold for further pursuit if I so choose. Do I go for a relationship, or a friends-with-benefits kinda thing? Do you think that would be a terrible thing to do a girl?
So yesterday was my mother's party for her 50th birthday. She got all kinds of neat shit, including a bag full of 50 of everything (super cool gift, imo)! She has been dating this guy for a while, and he has a quite attractive daughter my age. This is where the moral dilemma begins, but develops further...
My mother pulled me aside before the party had even started and told me, 'please don't fight with [her] today.' Historically, this girl and I are water and oil- we have our moments, but we don't mix... The entire day I had my tryhard on, trying not to upset her in any way- which became easier as the day wore on.
She had a particularly strong perfume on, and her hair looked really nice and really framed her face well. We chatted a bit about work- what the two of us do; how she is also in the automotive industry (I am a parts fabricator, she is a warranty admin); and what our commutes are like in the morning... Overall, a pleasant exchange.
We go inside to the A/C and drink in the kitchen for a bit- all the while she is throwing absurd body language at me and tapping her feet against my leg on the ottoman between us. She goes down the hall, and my buddy comes into the kitchen, shaking his head.
He imposes, "God damn, [my name]- just fuckin kiss her already... I see your eyes, you're in love with her."
'Historically, we haven't gotten along at all, dude. I'm just tryin to be pleasant.'
"Bullshit, you're such a bad liar."
'So I'm the book, now, eh? Tell me narrator, what do you read of her?'
"She is trying too hard to act uninterested. Man the fuck up!"
Then she gets a phone call. Enter confusing / moral dilemma part...
I overhear some of what she says, as we are sitting right next to each other- she is trying to give directions to the house. I ask her where the person is coming from, and I give directions which are relayed to the person on the phone.
She hangs up and says, '[he] says he will probably be here in an hour.'
I respond, "that your boyfriend?"
'Well, ummm...'
'I see...'
This confused the shit out of me for a while, until I had observed their behavior together. When he arrived, she gave him one of those awkward half-hugs with one arm as she looked away from him towards the people at the party. This body language tells me she isn't exactly comfortable with him yet, or just something else which is way over my head.
Move forward 2 hours or so- we (us young people) are all sitting around our own little circular table, drinking, playin cards. At this time, we are sitting in the following order around the table (apologies for this confusing diagram) :: [her] [her friend][me][my buddy]; so my buddy and her friend are on either side of her. I get up to get a beer, and they play musical chairs on me- at which point she has taken my seat... New order: [her friend] [her] [me] [my buddy]. So she moved such that she was sitting between her friend and me, rather than across the table from me.
After a time, we move this party to inside where there is A/C. So here we sit, at the kitchen table (rectangular): [my buddy] [her] / [me] / [her friend] [her father] / [my mother]
We are just drinking, having an unimportant conversation, and eventually decide to play Asshole (the card game). That game goes on until her friend decides to leave- then the rest of us chill in the A/C and drink some more. Her body language around her friend appears as though he is just a good friend she brought over to deter any kind of advances, but he is no longer at the party.
I go outside to bask in the cool summer air and have a cigarette in my solitude. Door opens, she walks out, so much for cigarette by myself (she doesn't smoke, and it rather annoys her when it blows in her general direction- I apologized for my smoke blowing at her several times throughout the day). We sit at a table in the backyard, chat for a bit, then start wandering around the yard.
Enter confusing / moral dilemma part 3: She takes my hand while we are walking around the yard, I slowly spin her as if we were dancing and yadda yadda yadda... We dance to absolutely no music for 10 minutes, at which point we end up making out in the backyard. Could have been a product of her drinking girly drinks all night, or maybe I finally managed to get her to warm up to me- either way, I was fuckin rollin with it!
After this, we return to the frozen realm of the indoors where the A/C is set to like 65degF. People are leaving, I have to give my buddy a ride home, and she is gettin ready to leave as well... I walk her out to her car while my buddy and my brother are lallygagging (apparently, that's how you spell that word...) in the kitchen. I give her a hug and a confusingly passionate good-night kiss (I pretty much leaned on her into the car)... My buddy walks outside with his daughter and car-seat and ruins the moment by coming up to me and slappin me on the shoulder, "yeah, [my name]! bout damn time!" We all laugh, she smiles shyly and gets in her car and drives off...
I let my buddy drive my vehicle to his place, then I drive home. As I walk into the house, I am greeted by my sister and her boyfriend informing me that I smell rather girly... Oh shit! I smell like her perfume! I chalk it up to bein with her all day, and try to dismiss it as nothing.
Fast forward to this morning- my sister asks if my shirt still smells like [her] perfume. I didn't notice it while walking through my room, so I just said it didn't. I received no regretful text messages from her- only one that was asking me if she left something at my mother's house (I wasn't there to look, so I just told her to ask my mom). Apparently, she had left her camera there. What is it with women and losing cameras? I bought my mother a really nice camera for her birthday (with the 2 year black-tie full replacement warranty), because I expect these things to happen...
ANYWAYS- point I'm gettin at here is, is it morally reprehensible to pursue my mother's boyfriend's daughter as a love interest? If they do end up married, she would be my step-sister and that would just seem really weird to me. On the other hand, I am clearly across the threshold for further pursuit if I so choose. Do I go for a relationship, or a friends-with-benefits kinda thing? Do you think that would be a terrible thing to do a girl?
Morality should be your own personal judgment, not mine. I find other issues in this situation that I want to bring to your attention though.
Even if you don't have a moral problem with this, she might, and so might your respective families. Family should come first in this situation. If you're brave enough, I'd ask your mom's opinion.
Another problem is that fake-boyfriend situation. She got notably closer to you when he was around, but her friend wasn't. She probably was trying to seek the same protection that her friend offered her. This + a few drinks + a day of you being nicer to her than usual + emotional dropout from failing relationship = attraction. I think that there are too many volatile factors in this relationship for it to work out on an emotional level. Your history with her isn't really a problem but it doesn't help much that you guys are just starting to get close.
I think that it would be wrong to do anything with her, really, simply because I know it might put your mother's relationship in jeopardy down the line, and because this girl is probably emotionally unstable right now. But, I'll reiterate, morality is subjective, so you should do what you feel comfortable with.
On July 25 2011 10:56 Logginurkeyz wrote:
I was afraid of this kind of response =0\
Although, my mother is open-minded enough that I could ask her... I really like this girl's father, though- for my mother. Nice upstanding gentleman, wouldn't really wanna ruin it for her because of my poor decisions...
I was afraid of this kind of response =0\
Although, my mother is open-minded enough that I could ask her... I really like this girl's father, though- for my mother. Nice upstanding gentleman, wouldn't really wanna ruin it for her because of my poor decisions...
Asking shouldn't do any damage, if anything I think your mother will be surprised by how mature you are for coming to her with this kind of question, because it is a very touchy situation. However, I want to make sure you discuss this with her and not just ask her permission. Having a discussion will illuminate whatever other problems there may be with your situation, which your mother has much more first-hand experience with than anyone online ever would (she knows you, herself, her boyfriend, his daughter, and how it would affect the relationship).
You should judge for yourself whether or not you want to trouble your mom with this though. Only do it if you are truly serious about going out with this girl first, and not at the level of asking whether its right or not. I suggest you give it some time and let that day fade a little, and see if you still feel as strongly. If you do, think about what makes her different from other girls you know. If there are almost no differences, then I would say it is a product of your interesting relationship (many relationships start after two people 'hate' each other, because as long as you are feeling emotions for each other it is possible to change their direction). If there are differences, take note of them - these are the qualities that you look for in women, and you should try to look for women who would cause fewer potential complications (which I am sure you can imagine there to be many). The way I see it, if your relationship with her goes wrong, it could ruin your relationship with your mom because it might affect your mom's relationship with her boyfriend. That is too great of a sacrifice to make, in my opinion. On top of that, as lovely of a person your mom is, I think it would be more difficult for her to find a single man around her age who she will like, whereas you are young and I think you will plow many a pussy yet.
Either way, best of luck. You're in a tough spot, but you'll be fine regardless of what happens.
On July 25 2011 10:03 Andymoo wrote:
I'm sort of in the same boat as this. I'm normally shy-ish around people that I don't know, yet once I get to know someone I'm my normal self who enjoys having a fun time.
the situation:
+ Show Spoiler +
(if something makes no sense / needs clarified further just say something, I often forget that people don't have my exact memories :D)
I'm wondering if I did anything wrong I guess you could say, like if I had actually made a solid move would this have turned out differently? Did I completely misread all of the things that she said to me? I guess I'm wondering what I should've/could've done differently, or if I just got unlucky as hell.
I'm sort of in the same boat as this. I'm normally shy-ish around people that I don't know, yet once I get to know someone I'm my normal self who enjoys having a fun time.
the situation:
+ Show Spoiler +
I'll admit that this last semester of school was the first time I had met a girl that I was actually interested in and I told myself if I let this pass without at least trying I was the biggest idiot on the planet. So I make the effort to talk to her, get to know her, and hang out with her as her time permitted (she was stupid busy all the time).
I had thought things died between us when we stopped talking for a week or two and thought that I lost my chance, but then at the start of spring break we had started to talk again. I had mentioned to her that I was on my way to a friends house for a party that night and she said something to the effect of "sounds like you'll have fun, we can talk tomorrow then" and I was like boom, pro suave thoughts and responded back with "well, I'm fairly good at multitasking, so we can still talk(text) if you'd like" (we had been just talking to each other about random stuff, how break was going, etc before this) and the response I got was "I'd like that a lot
" to which prompted immediate fist pumpage for my pro smooth talking.
So that night went well in itself, and the next 2 days consisted of us talking about anything and everything until like 4am. + Show Spoiler + During the last few days of break she told me how two of her good friends from school had actually told her that they thought I was a really great guy and that we should go out. Upon learning this (and from the things that we had talked about) I thought that I had this shit in the bag and when we got back from break things would progress.
We get back from break and a few days later after hanging out for a bit I finally grew a pair and told her how I actually felt. She wasn't surprised, since apparently women know everything -_-, and told me that she thought I was a really great guy and all of that jazz, but she didn't think it would be fair to be in a relationship at the time because of how busy she was. She asked me how I wanted to move forward with this and being the gentleman I am I just told her that I understood where she was coming from and didn't want to try and force a relationship onto her and that we could see what happens when her life got a little less stressful.
After a few weeks pass I figured that I needed to do something in order to not just be friend-zoned for the rest of my life or something, so I decided to talk to her again and see what the whole deal was and such. After she explained how she was still really busy, I decided I'd rather have a straightforward answer and just asked what the deal would be if she wasn't so busy at the time (like does she actually share the same feelings or not).The obvious "I don't really know" ensued, so I told her that I just wanted a straight forward honest answer. The hammer was then dropped: "well, I'm not so sure that I'm bi anymore". So she's completely into chicks now, the fuck?
I had thought things died between us when we stopped talking for a week or two and thought that I lost my chance, but then at the start of spring break we had started to talk again. I had mentioned to her that I was on my way to a friends house for a party that night and she said something to the effect of "sounds like you'll have fun, we can talk tomorrow then" and I was like boom, pro suave thoughts and responded back with "well, I'm fairly good at multitasking, so we can still talk(text) if you'd like" (we had been just talking to each other about random stuff, how break was going, etc before this) and the response I got was "I'd like that a lot
" to which prompted immediate fist pumpage for my pro smooth talking.So that night went well in itself, and the next 2 days consisted of us talking about anything and everything until like 4am. + Show Spoiler +
One of these nights was when she actually told me that she was bi and who wouldn't enjoy that news?
We get back from break and a few days later after hanging out for a bit I finally grew a pair and told her how I actually felt. She wasn't surprised, since apparently women know everything -_-, and told me that she thought I was a really great guy and all of that jazz, but she didn't think it would be fair to be in a relationship at the time because of how busy she was. She asked me how I wanted to move forward with this and being the gentleman I am I just told her that I understood where she was coming from and didn't want to try and force a relationship onto her and that we could see what happens when her life got a little less stressful.
After a few weeks pass I figured that I needed to do something in order to not just be friend-zoned for the rest of my life or something, so I decided to talk to her again and see what the whole deal was and such. After she explained how she was still really busy, I decided I'd rather have a straightforward answer and just asked what the deal would be if she wasn't so busy at the time (like does she actually share the same feelings or not).The obvious "I don't really know" ensued, so I told her that I just wanted a straight forward honest answer. The hammer was then dropped: "well, I'm not so sure that I'm bi anymore". So she's completely into chicks now, the fuck?
(if something makes no sense / needs clarified further just say something, I often forget that people don't have my exact memories :D)
I'm wondering if I did anything wrong I guess you could say, like if I had actually made a solid move would this have turned out differently? Did I completely misread all of the things that she said to me? I guess I'm wondering what I should've/could've done differently, or if I just got unlucky as hell.
First of all, "I'll admit that this last semester of school was the first time I had met a girl that I was actually interested in and I told myself if I let this pass without at least trying I was the biggest idiot on the planet," is a great mentality to have. Judging from this story, you have a head on your shoulders and you'll come out of this okay, regardless of whether it's with her or without her.
I think you did everything fine. When she said she was busy, I might have said something along the lines of "I don't want to push you, but I still want to be able to call you my girlfriend and spend more time with you. It's not about how much time you or I have, if you were to die an hour from now, I'd still ask you to be my girlfriend." But, I say this hypothetically, as I've never been faced with this problem. It's by no means the only option, and I feel that this is a situation where people have to take the path that they feel comfortable with. I think that the path you chose might seem a little less devoted/passionate (but also less needy? depends on how close you two were), but also more empathetic (which is a good quality in a guy).
I don't think you misread anything, your story seemed pretty objective, and she seemed to show genuine interest, on paper at least.
I do think you got unlucky. She seems to be going through a transition period in her life (being bisexual is one sign of this), maybe discovering herself, and that might also be the reason why she was shying away from a relationship. From what I gathered, she did like you, and wanted to keep you as an option when she came to the end of whatever personal journey she is on. Although this assumption makes her seem pretty selfish, emotions can make you subconsciously do these things, which I suspect was her case.
I'm sorry that things turned out this way. I don't think you should put any pressure on her, maybe tell her that no matter what you'll support her (if she is going through a period of sexual discovery, she may have issues with her friends and family) if you are so inclined, and you should move on and not think any less of yourself for what happened. Best of luck!
On July 25 2011 16:00 Servius_Fulvius wrote:
Gotta say Kittens, I'm truly impressed at this thread's turnout. Nice job!
You may or may not have noticed, but I give a ton of advice in the relationship blogs as well. Most times when I'm having issues I'll stick with advice from RL friends, but you seem to have your head on straight, so I'll lay it on you! I've thought through this a lot, so I'm going to put my plans under spoiler.
Backstory - I've known this girl since we've been in high school. We lived 1100 miles apart, but it was the early 2000's and AIM was in its heyday. We met through a marching band forum and talked on and off for a few years. Nothing major, just an hour-long conversation every week or two. I was really into this other girl at the time and HATED the fact she was always crushing on internet men, so there was this huge barrier with AIM buddies. Time went on, we lost touch, and that was that. We talked again a few summers ago, but things really picked up in November.
We started talking again when she found out I live really close. I moved across country for grad school, so now we're a four hour drive apart. As the month went on we started talking a lot more frequently. Turns out she had a thing for me in high school..er...as much of a thing you can have with someone over the internet when you're 17. Also turns out that she started having a thing for me again! I was definitely interested, but I convinced myself it was rebound since I had gotten out of a relationship about a month earlier. We finally met face to face at the end of that month and she told me later that she really wished I had tried to kiss her.
So why would I turn down such a ready and willing female? She has a boyfriend. Don't you just hate it when that happens? Unlike most girls in a relationship she really doesn't like it and both her and the guy are surprised they've lasted two years given how much they fight and they fact they live 1500 miles apart. In December she had plans to break up with him, but for one reason or another didn't. I took this opportunity to bow out. We didn't talk from January to April.
We met in person again in April. I was in her town for an academic conference and spent our free evening hanging out with her. It was fun. We get along and compliment each other. She was still with the boyfriend, so I still viewed her as forbidden fruit. We became more flirtatious as the night waned, but in the end nothing overly tempting came up. At least that's what I thought.
A few months of almost no talking and suddenly she texting or calling every day (about a month ago). At first she was trying to get me to go on a vacation outing with her and some of her friends. I really need a vacation, so I fronted the money and honestly, it seems like a fun time. Afterwords I'll travel back with her to her home city and chill there for a few days before going home.
Here's where it gets a little messy - she still has a thing for me. This completely baffles me since she should be into her boyfriend, but I've been able to directly get from her that they're in a loveless relationship of fear and convenience held together by the reluctance to let go of someone they've invested so much time into. Once more, I've gotten her to directly tell me that when I visited in April she wanted me to go for the kiss, that she wants me to go for it in a couple weeks, that she would date me in a heartbeat, and that she feels a "warm and fuzzy" AND nervous feeling around me that she almost never feels around anyone else.
Here's the big problem - I like her. I don't know how or why, but I do. It's been very easy to hold back on any advances because of her relationship, but feelings coupled with the physical attraction I've always had and I'm looking at one huge test of willpower.
So, what would you do good sir (or anyone else who feels like responding): Do you stick to your moral guns and not help the girl cheat on the boyfriend she should have broken up with a LONG time ago, or do you give in to the attraction, make a move, and see what happens?
+ Show Spoiler +
This is how I see it:
A). I feel that cheating is not only morally reprehensible, but an indication of what to expect of her if a relationship ever started. One could make the argument that her relationship is already over, but I'm choosing not to muddle that interpretation in a gray area.
B). I may have nothing to lose by going for it (on the surface), but then I put her in an awkward spot and set up her boyfriend to get hurt. Though, she put herself in the awkward spot already, and let's not forget that I'd feel bad for causing the boyfriend some amount of grief.
C). We'll be alone in her house for at least 16 hours (not including time slept). I'm an incredibly patient person, but that's a lot to ask....
Therefore, the current plan of action is to undergo the grueling task of not making a move on the girl I like. She's already booked the flight to see her boyfriend again in early September, so their breaking up won't happen until at least that point. She directly told me today that she wants me to make a move to help her make her mind up. I'm not about to draw an arbitrary line that defines infidelity to remove the guilt from any actions I my take (or taken already), but making a move is definitely crossing the line. If she wants to be with me she has to be single first.
Again, I'm a very patient person, but being with her will definitely wear on my willpower. Here's to hard decisions! I will not deny that I really want to make a move, and given the right situation I could just throw caution to wind. I hope it doesn't come to that, but when fighting a war against human nature the cards are stacked against you.
Gotta say Kittens, I'm truly impressed at this thread's turnout. Nice job!
You may or may not have noticed, but I give a ton of advice in the relationship blogs as well. Most times when I'm having issues I'll stick with advice from RL friends, but you seem to have your head on straight, so I'll lay it on you! I've thought through this a lot, so I'm going to put my plans under spoiler.
Backstory - I've known this girl since we've been in high school. We lived 1100 miles apart, but it was the early 2000's and AIM was in its heyday. We met through a marching band forum and talked on and off for a few years. Nothing major, just an hour-long conversation every week or two. I was really into this other girl at the time and HATED the fact she was always crushing on internet men, so there was this huge barrier with AIM buddies. Time went on, we lost touch, and that was that. We talked again a few summers ago, but things really picked up in November.
We started talking again when she found out I live really close. I moved across country for grad school, so now we're a four hour drive apart. As the month went on we started talking a lot more frequently. Turns out she had a thing for me in high school..er...as much of a thing you can have with someone over the internet when you're 17. Also turns out that she started having a thing for me again! I was definitely interested, but I convinced myself it was rebound since I had gotten out of a relationship about a month earlier. We finally met face to face at the end of that month and she told me later that she really wished I had tried to kiss her.
So why would I turn down such a ready and willing female? She has a boyfriend. Don't you just hate it when that happens? Unlike most girls in a relationship she really doesn't like it and both her and the guy are surprised they've lasted two years given how much they fight and they fact they live 1500 miles apart. In December she had plans to break up with him, but for one reason or another didn't. I took this opportunity to bow out. We didn't talk from January to April.
We met in person again in April. I was in her town for an academic conference and spent our free evening hanging out with her. It was fun. We get along and compliment each other. She was still with the boyfriend, so I still viewed her as forbidden fruit. We became more flirtatious as the night waned, but in the end nothing overly tempting came up. At least that's what I thought.
A few months of almost no talking and suddenly she texting or calling every day (about a month ago). At first she was trying to get me to go on a vacation outing with her and some of her friends. I really need a vacation, so I fronted the money and honestly, it seems like a fun time. Afterwords I'll travel back with her to her home city and chill there for a few days before going home.
Here's where it gets a little messy - she still has a thing for me. This completely baffles me since she should be into her boyfriend, but I've been able to directly get from her that they're in a loveless relationship of fear and convenience held together by the reluctance to let go of someone they've invested so much time into. Once more, I've gotten her to directly tell me that when I visited in April she wanted me to go for the kiss, that she wants me to go for it in a couple weeks, that she would date me in a heartbeat, and that she feels a "warm and fuzzy" AND nervous feeling around me that she almost never feels around anyone else.
Here's the big problem - I like her. I don't know how or why, but I do. It's been very easy to hold back on any advances because of her relationship, but feelings coupled with the physical attraction I've always had and I'm looking at one huge test of willpower.
So, what would you do good sir (or anyone else who feels like responding): Do you stick to your moral guns and not help the girl cheat on the boyfriend she should have broken up with a LONG time ago, or do you give in to the attraction, make a move, and see what happens?
+ Show Spoiler +
This is how I see it:
A). I feel that cheating is not only morally reprehensible, but an indication of what to expect of her if a relationship ever started. One could make the argument that her relationship is already over, but I'm choosing not to muddle that interpretation in a gray area.
B). I may have nothing to lose by going for it (on the surface), but then I put her in an awkward spot and set up her boyfriend to get hurt. Though, she put herself in the awkward spot already, and let's not forget that I'd feel bad for causing the boyfriend some amount of grief.
C). We'll be alone in her house for at least 16 hours (not including time slept). I'm an incredibly patient person, but that's a lot to ask....
Therefore, the current plan of action is to undergo the grueling task of not making a move on the girl I like. She's already booked the flight to see her boyfriend again in early September, so their breaking up won't happen until at least that point. She directly told me today that she wants me to make a move to help her make her mind up. I'm not about to draw an arbitrary line that defines infidelity to remove the guilt from any actions I my take (or taken already), but making a move is definitely crossing the line. If she wants to be with me she has to be single first.
Again, I'm a very patient person, but being with her will definitely wear on my willpower. Here's to hard decisions! I will not deny that I really want to make a move, and given the right situation I could just throw caution to wind. I hope it doesn't come to that, but when fighting a war against human nature the cards are stacked against you.
This situation is all wrong, because the time for long-distance e-dating should have been at around the age you were discussing, i.e. 13-17. Distance relationships simply don't work, especially if the majority of your relationship is spent at that distance. There are always trust issues, there are always lonely times, and there will always be something missing. 4 hours apart is way too far. I have had to deal with a few distance relationships in my life, and I am going to tell you that honestly I don't think they are viable. My suggestion is to dissociate yourself with her on a romantic level as soon as possible and look for someone who lives closer to you.
There are many other issues too. The fact that she has a failing relationship (also long-distance, see the pattern?) that she is unwilling to let go of despite the distance and issues. The fact that she seems so desperate for your affection but doesn't break up with her boyfriend. In my opinion, a large reason for why she is so forward with you is because you are probably one of the few other men she feels close to. Most girls who get into distance relationships only do so because they can't find anyone IRL, or don't feel comfortable with anyone IRL (usually some sort of social awkwardness). This added on to the fact that she barely ever sees her significant other means there are lots of pent up emotions and hormones. She might be more inclined to be with you, and tell you so, when you are there or when talking to you. But I am sure that when she is physically with her boyfriend, she doesn't want to leave him. That is the other pitfall of distance relationships - it's easy to cheat when they are not around, but you never feel like fully letting go because the cost of staying in the relationship is low, and the meetings IRL are like a vacation from the emotional turmoil. Basically what I am getting at is that she is emotionally unstable and has major attachment issues, and probably doesn't know what a real relationship is like, otherwise she would not be CHOOSING to go for guys at a distance. Unless, of course, she is just playing you/manipulating you to be her physical relief.
If you think cheating is wrong, then there doesn't need to be any further discussion. Self-control might be hard but you can circumvent the issue by telling her from the get-go that you don't want to do anything with her, and there is nothing she can do about it, even if she broke up with her 'boyfriend.' You can still be friends and enjoy your vacation. There is no other possible response when she is willing to cheat, but not dump her boyfriend.
On July 26 2011 01:06 Servius_Fulvius wrote:
Thanks for the advice. Dissociating from her entirely has been an option, and it was my original intention to go on the vacation and at the end tell her that we couldn't be together ever. Kind of like that How I Met Your Mother episode with the teacup pig.
I disagree with your opinion of long distance relationships. I've had two great relationships destroyed when one or both of us moved away (both within the last three years), so I know full well what distance does. I also know exactly what it takes to make one work. Both parties need to be 100% committed to each other, you must communicate what you're feeling on a regular basis (good and bad), visit often, and find ways to experience things together despite distance (like seeing a movie at the same time (or via internet), or read the same book or play the same game). Most relationships don't work out, and distance accelerates the making or breaking since one doesn't have all the physical conveniences that tend to trap people in bad relationships. Anyway, my first long distance was 4 hours for four months, which I thought was terrible. The next summer it turned into 900 miles for four months, and that ended us. Second long distance was 1000 miles away after only four months togehter (we lasted another 6). Believe me, a four hour drive when both of us have reliable transportation and consistent income isn't as big a deal as you make it sound.
This girl approaches things a bit differently. She believes in being her own person and having her own space. She's told me several times that she's specifically avoiding "being tied down" by emotions, which definitely goes a long way in explaining why she has stayed with the failed relationship so long. I also handle long distance relationships well due to my patience and overall stubbornness! According to her, I transcend the "not getting emotionally involved" thing because she's "already emotionally involved", but I believe that about as far as I can throw her (due to her smaller size it will be a little bit further than most, but not much
).
So yeah, I'd like to date her, but she needs to be single and dating her would be more of an experiment since the approach isn't as hands-on as my previous relationships. I can see it going both good and bad, but in the end it would probably be a 4-6 month endeavor at best. The only reason I'd even do it would be to give it a chance, but that's a mute point since she's with someone. But hey, that's my thoughts on the dating issue (while I covered the more immediate "should I hook up with her" issue before).
Thanks for the advice. Dissociating from her entirely has been an option, and it was my original intention to go on the vacation and at the end tell her that we couldn't be together ever. Kind of like that How I Met Your Mother episode with the teacup pig.
I disagree with your opinion of long distance relationships. I've had two great relationships destroyed when one or both of us moved away (both within the last three years), so I know full well what distance does. I also know exactly what it takes to make one work. Both parties need to be 100% committed to each other, you must communicate what you're feeling on a regular basis (good and bad), visit often, and find ways to experience things together despite distance (like seeing a movie at the same time (or via internet), or read the same book or play the same game). Most relationships don't work out, and distance accelerates the making or breaking since one doesn't have all the physical conveniences that tend to trap people in bad relationships. Anyway, my first long distance was 4 hours for four months, which I thought was terrible. The next summer it turned into 900 miles for four months, and that ended us. Second long distance was 1000 miles away after only four months togehter (we lasted another 6). Believe me, a four hour drive when both of us have reliable transportation and consistent income isn't as big a deal as you make it sound.
This girl approaches things a bit differently. She believes in being her own person and having her own space. She's told me several times that she's specifically avoiding "being tied down" by emotions, which definitely goes a long way in explaining why she has stayed with the failed relationship so long. I also handle long distance relationships well due to my patience and overall stubbornness! According to her, I transcend the "not getting emotionally involved" thing because she's "already emotionally involved", but I believe that about as far as I can throw her (due to her smaller size it will be a little bit further than most, but not much
).So yeah, I'd like to date her, but she needs to be single and dating her would be more of an experiment since the approach isn't as hands-on as my previous relationships. I can see it going both good and bad, but in the end it would probably be a 4-6 month endeavor at best. The only reason I'd even do it would be to give it a chance, but that's a mute point since she's with someone. But hey, that's my thoughts on the dating issue (while I covered the more immediate "should I hook up with her" issue before).
it's true, distance relationships can work. But why would you want one? I am sure that you can find a more reliable, less emotionally unstable, non-committed girl in your area if you try. Investing in distance relationships when you have such limited real-life experience with the girl is taking too many risks, in my opinion. I see that you have had distance relationships in the past and they have failed. But you are also already pessimistic about this hypothetical relationship that isn't even close to fruition? That in itself betrays the fact that this relationship probably isn't the best idea. Compiled with the 'emotionally involved' phobia she has (her telling you that you are different is SO cliche, by the way), this makes things look grim. I know you like this girl, but maybe now is not the right time. Given your history I find it likely that you will meet again, probably when there is less bullshit in the way, like that movie "A Lot Like Love" or something.
The 4 hours thing being not that much is both true and false. It's true that physically, this distance is much more manageable than having to fly across the country. But, this also means that even if you guys see each other once a week, I foresee (from my personal experience) the following problems:
1. Emotional fallout - It is worse, in a way, when you can see each other only for one night a week, and live alone the rest of the time. I personally found it hard on me, and so did my ex, when this was the situation. With my other ex, we were only 1 hour drive apart, and it was tough even then. It's too taxing, imo.
2. Sacrifice - 4 hours one way, 4 hours back, and most likely during the weekend means that your 'free' time is limited. Unless you are both students and have the summer off, it means that your personal life will suffer. You will become more and more invested in each other because the more sacrifices you BOTH make, the stronger the emotional bond. This will only further the emotional fallout from the distance.
3. Continued lack of IRL experience - Having most of your experience with a person be from the internet leaves a lot of holes in your knowledge of each other. As hard as people may try to be exactly like themselves on the internet (and some people don't try at all), there is still that filter that allows you to think before you send the message on AIM, to revise your wording, to sit and think without the pressure of the other person being there, etc. I feel that seeing her once a week, one night a week (I am guessing this is the most likely option, unless you are students), it will still leave you wholly uninvolved with her.
4. Trust - You said yourself that the person must be 100% committed. Can you trust that she will be that way, if she is still unwilling to break it off with her current boyfriend? I'm sure he doesn't even know about you. How would you know that you are any different? If she really loves you, she would break it off right now, no fucking excuses. Plane tickets can be canceled. But, she doesn't have it in her to make that decision. Why? I can only assume that it's because her feelings for you don't warrant her to sacrifice her current relationship. That's a pretty heavy concept, and should be fully explored before you even consider a relationship with her. At this point it sounds like you are strongly interested in it, although you might have been talking about it favorably for argument's sake.
In short, I still think this is a bad idea, and not just because it's a distance relationship, but also because of the premise that it is based on and her current mentality and situation. So many red flags, and with each one any emotional involvement becomes more risky. Good luck!
On July 25 2011 23:32 Morfildur wrote:
Great ILK, you are the only one who can help me:
I work all day, don't ever go out and don't like going out, i have no friends due to being relatively new in town, all suitable female persons (suitable=are female,single and 18+) on FB in a 100km area ignored my messages and i spend my evenings/weekends playing games. How do i find a woman to marry before my 30th birthday in 4 month? Importing women from eastern europe/asia is not an option.
+ Show Spoiler +
Great ILK, you are the only one who can help me:
I work all day, don't ever go out and don't like going out, i have no friends due to being relatively new in town, all suitable female persons (suitable=are female,single and 18+) on FB in a 100km area ignored my messages and i spend my evenings/weekends playing games. How do i find a woman to marry before my 30th birthday in 4 month? Importing women from eastern europe/asia is not an option.
+ Show Spoiler +
Not all mentioned facts are fully correct, some are
Go outside and talk to women until you find someone interesting (: Then, before getting involved with her, make friends with her friends, meet MORE girls, expand your social circle. Then choose which one you want to get serious with. Then maybe after you do this a few times you'll find a girl you can marry. GLHF! FIGHTING!
On July 26 2011 00:24 iGrok wrote:
Hey kittens, I'll try to keep this kind of brief.
I'm 19, about to start college in the fall after taking a year to work after highschool. We were on and off all through highschool, very passionate (read: volatile) relationship, and dated other people while we were "off" but kept coming back to each other. The summer before senior year we split for good.
I still love her, and this blog is a completely true summary of my feelings for her.
We've kept in touch, and she's back in town. On a whim, I asked her to go a baseball game with me. Neither of us particularly enjoy baseball, but she replied "Yes, I'd love to, that sounds really fun!"
I'm going to keep the promise I made to myself in the blog. Do you have any suggestions as to how I should go about it?
Hey kittens, I'll try to keep this kind of brief.
I'm 19, about to start college in the fall after taking a year to work after highschool. We were on and off all through highschool, very passionate (read: volatile) relationship, and dated other people while we were "off" but kept coming back to each other. The summer before senior year we split for good.
I still love her, and this blog is a completely true summary of my feelings for her.
We've kept in touch, and she's back in town. On a whim, I asked her to go a baseball game with me. Neither of us particularly enjoy baseball, but she replied "Yes, I'd love to, that sounds really fun!"
I'm going to keep the promise I made to myself in the blog. Do you have any suggestions as to how I should go about it?
Your situation is scarily similar to mine. This is one of the posts I relate with the most. If I may, I'll briefly illustrate my history with this one girl:
1. Liked each other when we were 13
2. Started dating at 14, dated for 22 months.
3. Distance broke us up, but we still talked.
4. Right after high school we got back together, went to the same college, lived together, dated for ~10 months.
5. Distance broke us up again, along with bad decisions by her.
Result? I still loved her for a while, even while dating my next ex and in that interim period after the first break-up when I was chasing tail and wifing it up with other girls. I am probably on a similar series of events as you, but 2 years ahead (purely chronologically speaking).
So, here is my opinion, given my personal experience:
I know the pain you feel. I know the love you feel. But without it being mutual or actualized between you two, it is not real love. It is infatuation. You, like me, are looking back with 20/20 vision, but with rose-tinted glasses. You probably dated/hooked up with/considered other girls. After those relationships fell through, you are left alone and with an amalgamation of experiences. Out of those experiences, your experience with her was the best, and probably the longest (assuming, based on your age). She is probably the first girl you felt real feelings for, and probably the one you've had the most feelings for. Of course, this means that the feelings of 'love' for you are indeed founded on fact. She is the best thing you've had.
In my experience, this truth is almost insurmountable. My ex was a total bitch in some ways, especially when we weren't together. She was manipulative and had serious daddy/commitment issues. But, I felt like I really loved her. I also spent 2 nights awake, I even threw up a few times from the sheer emotional turmoil. The thing is, infatuation can create these same repercussions. Even if you have kept in touch with her, you have not been directly emotionally involved with her in a relationship this whole time. You have not been with her in person, so you have been living off of your memories in place of reality. This is very dangerous, because people tend to pick and choose what they remember based on how they feel about a person. You are infatuated her, so you only remember the good times. So, you've been living based off of only the positive memories of a relationship that has been over for more than a year. This is very unhealthy, as evidenced by my and your reactions to these feelings. It feels like love, but it can't be. At least by my definition of it.
What's the good news? This shouldn't ruin your ability to meet with her, to hang out with her, become friends again. This is a good, positive foundation for the realization of these feelings. However, you have to make sure that you go into this with no illusions or emotional investment to begin with. You can't be living for the moment you see her. You can't be desperate for her. It's very hard, trust me I know. But if you put that kind of internal pressure on yourself, it will only make you a weak partner. Should you two get back together (and hopefully not over long distance, that would be absolutely terrible for you right now), you would be a slave to your feelings and will probably be completely invested in her, which is a commitment issue in itself. You and I clearly have a commitment issue with our respective exes, you have to accept this. What is happening to you, while understandable, is not healthy, right, or normal.
So, let me go back to my point that she is the best you've ever had and this is what you are basing your feelings off of. You aren't giving other girls a chance at this point. You are too young to be completely sure that she is the one for you. I am 100% positive that somewhere out there, there is someone who is just as good for you if not better than her. You have to keep that in mind before you grow lovesick over her. You should take this as a new start, not a continuation. You have to readjust to each other all over again, get to know each other better all over again, etc. You have to have no expectations for what is to come.
This so far hasn't addressed your issue directly, but it does answer your question. From what I could tell, the promise you made to yourself is that you weren't going to be perfect. I have good/bad news for you: you aren't, you are so very far from it. You are essentially broken right now, and hung up on an ex-girlfriend. I don't mean this in a condescending way but there is no other expression for it, your blog is nothing short of what the typical teenage emo kid writes in his journal about his ex-girlfriend. You are being completely emotionally-driven, without displaying any mental processing of the facts, as I did for you above. I've said it before, I'll say it again: I completely understand where you are coming from. But you need to get some control over yourself, set your own life straight, so that you don't end up being dependent on her emotionally. If you are too dependent, you might be happy with her for a few months during the honeymoon period of your new relationship, but I promise you that your infatuation will harm the relationship in the long run, as it did with mine. Infatuation can entail the following attributes, all of which shift the balance in the relationship and make it unhealthy: excessive dependency, jealousy. being easily manipulated, lacking individuality and thus being a worse partner for her, emotional instability and vulnerability, the list goes on and on.
I'm sorry I went off like this, but like I said this situation hit me close to home. Right now I am mostly over my ex, but I still daydream about her sometimes, despite how much of a bitch she was/is. But, I have separated my mind from my heart enough to see that we were not right for each other, and that we were more likely to be infatuated with each other than in love with each other. I hate to sound like I am making too many assumptions or judging you, but I find it highly unlikely that what you feel is love and that you know what love is, yet. I am willing to guess you have never lived with her, or any other girl. Before you can survive 6-12 months of that, you have not had a chance at love, I believe. You must be fully immersed in each other's presence for prolonged periods of time for it to be anything solid. Right now you are trying to stand on water, metaphorically speaking: support a relationship based on the weak structure of infatuation, daydreams, and biased selection of memories.
TL;DR
Proceed with caution, my friend. Keep a clear mind and don't let your emotions control you. Staying up long nights because of a relationship long gone is indicative of you having an unhealthy mentality about her. You are far from perfect and should not worry about being close to it, but also do not try to achieve it. Separate logical and feelings. Udachi! FIGHTING!
On July 26 2011 09:53 spacemonkey4eve wrote:
This is such a good thread I decided to come out of lurk mode to post my own "dear auntie". So I've been dating this girl for a little over 2 months now. We're both Korean in the same line of professional work, and we got to know each other through a mutual acquaintance. We became very close quickly and I realized this is the girl I feel like I can share my life with (after searching for 2 years after my previous disappointing relationship).
Long story short, I told her how I felt about her and we both agreed to take it slowly. The only thing that bothers me about her is her perspective on love and dating. Basically, she says she has never felt real love in her life. She had a previous relationship with her ex for 5 years, and she laid it out on me that she never felt real love for him, and instead felt like a sister to him. She did admit we haven't met long enough to know for sure whether she can love me or not, but this does raise some concern within me in regards to whether it'll bring havoc down the line. Part of the reason she said she has problems truly feeling love towards someone is her fear that once she commits to someone, she may find someone else down the line that she may fall head over heels for, and she can't break up with the current bf because of her sense of responsibility to him. I think this is why she keeps stopping me from thinking about things couple months from now, and often says we might not see each other then. Other than that, we have a great relationship and spend several nights a week together enjoying each others company. I'm just wondering if there's something (if anything) I can do to gradually help her realize that it's ok to commit herself to me for the long haul, and that she won't have to fear that she'll fall in love with someone else.
Just to be clear, her definition of love is essentially "agape" and was never infatuated with me or her ex. She doesn't believe in the conventional lovey-dovey sense of love portrayed in the media.
This is such a good thread I decided to come out of lurk mode to post my own "dear auntie". So I've been dating this girl for a little over 2 months now. We're both Korean in the same line of professional work, and we got to know each other through a mutual acquaintance. We became very close quickly and I realized this is the girl I feel like I can share my life with (after searching for 2 years after my previous disappointing relationship).
Long story short, I told her how I felt about her and we both agreed to take it slowly. The only thing that bothers me about her is her perspective on love and dating. Basically, she says she has never felt real love in her life. She had a previous relationship with her ex for 5 years, and she laid it out on me that she never felt real love for him, and instead felt like a sister to him. She did admit we haven't met long enough to know for sure whether she can love me or not, but this does raise some concern within me in regards to whether it'll bring havoc down the line. Part of the reason she said she has problems truly feeling love towards someone is her fear that once she commits to someone, she may find someone else down the line that she may fall head over heels for, and she can't break up with the current bf because of her sense of responsibility to him. I think this is why she keeps stopping me from thinking about things couple months from now, and often says we might not see each other then. Other than that, we have a great relationship and spend several nights a week together enjoying each others company. I'm just wondering if there's something (if anything) I can do to gradually help her realize that it's ok to commit herself to me for the long haul, and that she won't have to fear that she'll fall in love with someone else.
Just to be clear, her definition of love is essentially "agape" and was never infatuated with me or her ex. She doesn't believe in the conventional lovey-dovey sense of love portrayed in the media.
Sounds like she has some emotional/commitment issues. You don't want her to commit to you if she doesn't have romantic feelings for you. So your actual question should be, "How can I get this girl to like me so much that she agrees to date me?"
This is pretty much what every man on earth wants to know at some point, but the answer is different for each girl and each man. I know nothing about you and nothing about her, so it's impossible for me to answer in anything but generalities. Show her you are reliable, keep spending quality time with her, try to engage in more romantic activities such as dates and dinners, treat her well, make her laugh. If there is something holding her back from commitment that isn't broken by your successful completion of all of those tasks in the next few weeks, she isn't worth the investment. You'd be better off finding a new girl who doesn't make you climb mountains and dive through hoops to get her affection. If I may venture a guess based on experience, her somewhat stand-offish nature is part of the attraction for you; everyone wants what they can't have. She put herself up on this pedestal in front of you, to put herself up on the same pedestal in YOUR mind. Women do this so that they are valued more, which makes you work harder for them, which makes you sacrifice more, which means your commitment to her is greater before you even date. They do this because it's like quality assurance, but sometimes if you act so desperate to have her by putting yourself through all this trouble for her, then you fail just the same, because no one wants a sappy dependent boyfriend. Just something to keep in mind.
So, you are already thinking that you can marry this girl after knowing her for only 2 months and after having no romantic response from her. It seems like you are being a bit naive, perhaps mostly infatuated, and hold her up on a pedestal. I think you should look for love elsewhere, from someone who won't require so much work.
On July 26 2011 14:52 Servius_Fulvius wrote:
I'll throw in my two cents while the doctor is out! Keep in mind that I'm not Korean and unsure if there is any cultural baggage.
Your lady has a fear of commitment. Whether she's afraid of getting hurt if she falls for someone or afraid that she'll find someone better later, it's never pretty when another person is involved.
First and foremost, the only thing you can do to help her realize your intentions are to outright tell her. No hidden language or signals, just black and white "it's ok to commit to me". Unfortunately you can't change her fears or mindset - only she can do that. So now the big question arises - are you willing to wait for her to change?
After a bad experience with an ex, I personally don't wait for people to grow up anymore. It sounds like it's already messing with your head and I can tell you now that if she keeps it up and you start falling harder for her that it WILL get worse.
The fact she she says she'll fall for someone but stay with her boyfriend out of a sense of obligation is just wrong imo, but that may be another cultural thing.
So she adheres to agape? This is a sacrificial love. Sure, she's sacrificing her own future happiness for the guy she's with, but isn't she also sacrificing some other dude's happiness (and your sanity)? She certainly sounds like a very giving person, so perhaps you should give back to her. If I were you, I'd let the relationship get past the "honeymoon phase" and ask for some kind of commitment. If she refuses then I'd consider whether or not you're wasting your time with her. If you are then I'd give her single status back so she can meet this mysterious (most probably fictional) character that's supposed to sweep her off her feet.
Sorry if I sound a bit pessimistic - for all I know you're the one different guy who she can fall in love with once she gets over her fears. I guess anything is a possibility, so if you decide to wait her out make sure that life isn't passing you by.
I'll throw in my two cents while the doctor is out! Keep in mind that I'm not Korean and unsure if there is any cultural baggage.
Your lady has a fear of commitment. Whether she's afraid of getting hurt if she falls for someone or afraid that she'll find someone better later, it's never pretty when another person is involved.
First and foremost, the only thing you can do to help her realize your intentions are to outright tell her. No hidden language or signals, just black and white "it's ok to commit to me". Unfortunately you can't change her fears or mindset - only she can do that. So now the big question arises - are you willing to wait for her to change?
After a bad experience with an ex, I personally don't wait for people to grow up anymore. It sounds like it's already messing with your head and I can tell you now that if she keeps it up and you start falling harder for her that it WILL get worse.
The fact she she says she'll fall for someone but stay with her boyfriend out of a sense of obligation is just wrong imo, but that may be another cultural thing.
So she adheres to agape? This is a sacrificial love. Sure, she's sacrificing her own future happiness for the guy she's with, but isn't she also sacrificing some other dude's happiness (and your sanity)? She certainly sounds like a very giving person, so perhaps you should give back to her. If I were you, I'd let the relationship get past the "honeymoon phase" and ask for some kind of commitment. If she refuses then I'd consider whether or not you're wasting your time with her. If you are then I'd give her single status back so she can meet this mysterious (most probably fictional) character that's supposed to sweep her off her feet.
Sorry if I sound a bit pessimistic - for all I know you're the one different guy who she can fall in love with once she gets over her fears. I guess anything is a possibility, so if you decide to wait her out make sure that life isn't passing you by.
On July 26 2011 22:53 StorkHwaiting wrote:
This girl sounds like a total nutter. She also obviously has not found the ideal she wants yet. My advice is break up with her because it will only lead to more heartache later on. What she's trying to say is you don't sweep her off her feet. You're not the kind of guy she wants. And she's going to continue to be unhappy until she finds that man of her dreams. It's only after said man of dreams crushes her mercilessly that she will lose her idealism. You should call her after that occurs.
This girl sounds like a total nutter. She also obviously has not found the ideal she wants yet. My advice is break up with her because it will only lead to more heartache later on. What she's trying to say is you don't sweep her off her feet. You're not the kind of guy she wants. And she's going to continue to be unhappy until she finds that man of her dreams. It's only after said man of dreams crushes her mercilessly that she will lose her idealism. You should call her after that occurs.
