EPTMy Thoughts on EG/Puma - Page 26
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shavi
United States127 Posts
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Elite__
Canada976 Posts
So, I would like to also point out that Alex Garfield may have misunderstood the problem with contacting Puma first rather than coach Lee. By giving Puma your business card and giving him time to think about an offer that he was inclined to take because of the monetary benefits, he was already almost sure that he was going to join EG. Then, once he eventually opened up to coach Lee (from my understanding), Puma seemed to have his heart set on joining team EG. Coach Lee, like mentioned by Milkis, supports his players in whatever they want to do, and because Puma's mind was set on joining EG, coach Lee was not going to try and deny Puma of that opportunity. Therefore, coach Lee reacted in a negative way toward EG's handling of the situation. If they would have talked to coach Lee before or around the same time of talking to Puma, this situation could have been avoided. Now, whether or not this is a Korean culture thing, or it is just a general ethical situation, EG should have contacted the coach to avoid a situation like this regardless. | ||
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JoeSchmoe
Canada2058 Posts
On July 23 2011 11:04 SirJolt wrote: Look, it's pretty straightforward. Milkis, as a disconnected third party, should take responsibility for his actions (even if they're just translations of other people's work) and make an effort to contact everyone involved in stuff he translates in his free time, just in case one of the parties involved can't string together a coherent message within eighteen hours. By contrast, EG as an involved party in a transaction shouldn't be required to contact other parties affected by that transaction. That would be preposterous. I can't believe how some people are finding this hard to understand, it seems cut and dry to me. Maybe it's because it makes absolutely no sense. Milkis is not obligated to do anything for anyone. All he did was provide translations of korean articles which was completely accurate. He is not responsible for the bias in the korean articles that carried over, EG's inability to respond appropriately to the situation, or anything else for that matter. EDIT: nvm you were being sarcastic lol... | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On July 23 2011 14:38 JoeSchmoe wrote: Maybe it's because it makes absolutely no sense. Milkis is not obligated to do anything for anyone. All he did was provide translations of korean articles which was completely accurate. He is not responsible for the bias in the korean articles that carried over, EG's inability to respond appropriately to the situation, or anything else for that matter. Do you hold him accountable for his own obvious bias during the WoC conversation? It's very possibly for bias to creep into translation. I don't know Korean, so I won't say it did or didn't happen, but the question itself was posed in a reasonable manner, and Milkis editorialized enough during WoC to invite the question. And why is EG somehow in the wrong for not asking the TSL coach for Puma's hand in marriage... oh wait, it's a player/team contract, the coach isn't his daddy, and there's nothing for him to be officially "released" from. I don't see how they should have handled it significantly differently. | ||
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Apollo_Shards
1210 Posts
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JoeSchmoe
Canada2058 Posts
On July 23 2011 14:45 JingleHell wrote: Do you hold him accountable for his own obvious bias during the WoC conversation? It's very possibly for bias to creep into translation. I don't know Korean, so I won't say it did or didn't happen, but the question itself was posed in a reasonable manner, and Milkis editorialized enough during WoC to invite the question. And why is EG somehow in the wrong for not asking the TSL coach for Puma's hand in marriage... oh wait, it's a player/team contract, the coach isn't his daddy, and there's nothing for him to be officially "released" from. I don't see how they should have handled it significantly differently. lol why would he be held accountable for his bias in WoC? He can think whatever he wants. He can tweet about what he thinks of the situation, which he kind of did. The only thing that would be inappropriate is intentionally mistranslating the korean articles which he didn't. AG accuses Milkis of not approaching him first to get the facts right because the korean articles were potentially biased/missing information. This has nothing to do with Milkis who just translated the articles and provided his opinions of them after. As for the second part, I'm tired of arguing the same point over and over again. Go read my other posts if you're really interested. | ||
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Ziggitz
United States340 Posts
Quite frankly coach Lee was a total prick in the way he handled the situation. Either was ignorant that Puma hadn't signed the contract yet and should have shut the fuck up, or he did and intentionally put a lot of negative pressure on Puma before he signs the contract which could leave him up shit creek without a paddle career-wise and with a lot of haters. If he really cared about Puma he wouldn't have said anything just yet. How can we believe that he cares so much about his players when all the hate heaped onto Puma is a direct result of him shooting his mouth off? It's spiteful and pathetic. In this new media world with twitter and facebook in an environment where this kind of news is not mainstream, the TL community is shockingly immature in how it processes news and jumps to conclusions in fucking minutes. In short, it's highly debatable whether EG actually did anything wrong considering they left everything in Puma's hands and it was his decision and the whole SC2 community needs to slow the fuck down and wait for more information before they jump to conclusions. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On July 23 2011 15:26 Ziggitz wrote: This was all a shitstorm born of poor editorializing, Coach Lee running his mouth far too quickly when he himself didn't know all the facts and the low maturity level of TL jumping to conclusions minutes after tweets were posted and they knew fuck all as per usual. Quite frankly coach Lee was a total prick in the way he handled the situation. Either was ignorant that Puma hadn't signed the contract yet and should have shut the fuck up, or he did and intentionally put a lot of negative pressure on Puma before he signs the contract which could leave him up shit creek without a paddle career-wise and with a lot of haters. If he really cared about Puma he wouldn't have said anything just yet. How can we believe that he cares so much about his players when all the hate heaped onto Puma is a direct result of him shooting his mouth off? It's spiteful and pathetic. In this new media world with twitter and facebook in an environment where this kind of news is not mainstream, the TL community is shockingly immature in how it processes news and jumps to conclusions in fucking minutes. In short, it's highly debatable whether EG actually did anything wrong considering they left everything in Puma's hands and it was his decision and the whole SC2 community needs to slow the fuck down and wait for more information before they jump to conclusions. Yeah, Lee is a total prick, people in the community are haters, Milkis is biased and responsible for EG's PR and EG are naive and innocent and never did anything wrong. Sums up half the posts in these threads just nicely. ^^ You do understand that you can't instruct other people on what their principles and opinions should be, right? Your coming here and calling a number of people (including TLO and Tyler incidentally) immature haters has no weight whatsoever. Your coming here and telling "the people" how they should behave has no weight whatsoever either. That imaginary high ground you think you're standing on - doesn't really exist. God, stop being so presumptuous (this goes out to a lot of people). If you can't deal with a perfectly valid opinion that somebody has, don't engage in discussion. | ||
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Existential
Australia2107 Posts
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IceSlipper
Australia1028 Posts
And the thing that ticks me off the most about this whole situation is the fact that Scoots (and to a lesser extent even incontrol) tweet about the whole situation, basically spitting in our faces for apparently not knowing all the facts (or in incontrol's case just laughing about the whole ordeal), and then do nothing to clarify it themselves? THEN they attack a 3rd party translator? Really unprofessional by EG, everything they've done in regards to this is a total joke.. | ||
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domane
Canada1606 Posts
(1) EG should have let TSL know (not for permission but to let them in the loop) that they were going to make Puma an offer. That would have been professional and shown basic courtesy. (2) EG should not have agreed to let Puma personally inform TSL about the offer. That's not professional. (3) EG should not have agreed to let Puma delay informing TSL until he got back to Korea. The offer had been made and Puma should have contacted his team ASAP via phone call or e-mail. They should have foreseen that Puma could blindside TSL with a thought-out decision by the time he got back to Korea, as opposed to just news of EG's offer and that he was contemplating it. | ||
Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
On July 23 2011 11:04 SirJolt wrote: Look, it's pretty straightforward. Milkis, as a disconnected third party, should take responsibility for his actions (even if they're just translations of other people's work) and make an effort to contact everyone involved in stuff he translates in his free time, just in case one of the parties involved can't string together a coherent message within eighteen hours. By contrast, EG as an involved party in a transaction shouldn't be required to contact other parties affected by that transaction. That would be preposterous. I can't believe how some people are finding this hard to understand, it seems cut and dry to me. Wait, so a neutral party, not a journalist, that has no affiliation with anyone, should contact everyone instead of just translate what he found and wait for the parties to explain themselves (EG is all over TL), while one of the parties involved should not convey the others view even if they already know it. Thats a hilariously skewed view... Edit: I think I fail at noticing sarcasm in the morning T_T | ||
adeptz
Australia220 Posts
On July 23 2011 14:45 Apollo_Shards wrote: Can someone PM me on what happened with EGs CS team that was similar to this? And I agree with you TLO. Why PM? This is history that people should know about. Basically after the fall of CGS, participating teams lost their nice salaries and had to find new sponsors/re-sign agreements with old sponsors (because most teams lost sponsors when they made the decision to join CGS). Complexity CS was in this situation, and all Jason Lake asked was for some time to find sponsors - note that this is the man who put his money on the line for a LONG time to grow/support/build that team into a dominant championship-winning team. AG's EG had a crapload of sponsors at that time because EG was the most stable organization to turn to when everyone else had jumped into CGS. Also note that AG was JL's good friend at that time, and assistant manager on the CGS team - so he knew the situation Complexity were in and basically "offered his business card" (see what i did there?) to the CS team without JL ever knowing. CS team accepts the offer, turns around and tells JL, "hey, we're going with EG". Conclusion: JL was hung out to dry with no team, and AG suddenly gets the #1 CS team in NA. | ||
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DexVitality
Hong Kong234 Posts
 Thanks for taking the time to post this. On a different note, I posted my opinions on my blog earlier about the FXO fOu transaction and my blog got removed right away and was asked to post on the main thread, I don't see how this post differs from mine, there is a main thread about this also... Either way, w/e I am just a little befuddled, I know TLO is very well respected and all... I don't wait to cause trouble but can any mod tell me what the difference was? | ||
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deathly rat
United Kingdom911 Posts
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JoeSchmoe
Canada2058 Posts
On July 23 2011 17:42 Beyonder wrote: Wait, so a neutral party, not a journalist, that has no affiliation with anyone, should contact everyone instead of just translate what he found and wait for the parties to explain themselves (EG is all over TL), while one of the parties involved should not convey the others view even if they already know it. Thats a hilariously skewed view... Edit: I think I fail at noticing sarcasm in the morning T_T aaaaaaaah i missed it too | ||
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shavi
United States127 Posts
On July 23 2011 17:54 adeptz wrote: Why PM? This is history that people should know about. Basically after the fall of CGS, participating teams lost their nice salaries and had to find new sponsors/re-sign agreements with old sponsors (because most teams lost sponsors when they made the decision to join CGS). Complexity CS was in this situation, and all Jason Lake asked was for some time to find sponsors - note that this is the man who put his money on the line for a LONG time to grow/support/build that team into a dominant championship-winning team. AG's EG had a crapload of sponsors at that time because EG was the most stable organization to turn to when everyone else had jumped into CGS. Also note that AG was JL's good friend at that time, and assistant manager on the CGS team - so he knew the situation Complexity were in and basically "offered his business card" (see what i did there?) to the CS team without JL ever knowing. CS team accepts the offer, turns around and tells JL, "hey, we're going with EG". Conclusion: JL was hung out to dry with no team, and AG suddenly gets the #1 CS team in NA. But I like IdrA, JWong, and Ricky Ortiz so much.. Why couldn't they be on a different team. :< I hope this is just super biased or something. :/ | ||
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Usagi
Spain1647 Posts
That given the standards and what he defended in WoC... Milkis is as much asociated with TL as Puma was with TSL. TSL gives practice and housing. TL gives a platform to get your word out and then go and do amazing things like spending the weekedn with MLG translating for the koreans. ahhhh, double standards. | ||
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zeru
8156 Posts
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HEROwithNOlegacy
United States850 Posts
On July 23 2011 14:45 Apollo_Shards wrote: Jason Lake commented that Alex Garfield was like a snake when he stole coL's cs team from jason lake back after cgs diedCan someone PM me on what happened with EGs CS team that was similar to this? And I agree with you TLO. | ||
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