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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On June 24 2011 10:49 Baladeva wrote:
Your view of being good manner is screwed up entirely... You can mask it by trying to seem polite, but you ultimately come off as a smart ass. And I see no point in recruiting practice partners...I bet you just cheese/allin when you "practice" with them.
Ya that's the last thing everyone wants. Lose a game to cheese, then asked to practice with that same person. I can't believe people don't jump all over that offer.
That's a reasonable thing to say, given that you didn't have a chance to read the post I posted while you were writing that post. I don't just cheese then ask people if they want to practice if I win. I also get practice partners from games I lose, and games I don't cheese, both of which substantially outnumber the games in which I do cheese. I'm sorry that I wasn't clear about this when I initially wrote the blog post.
EDIT: I have edited the OP originally, adding in an explanation before the start of the article. I haven't modified the article proper, in order to preserve it that others' comments might make sense.
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United States10774 Posts
You have to realize that sometimes being silent is better than trying to act friendly with meaningless and empty "compliments." Unfortunately you have a skewed perception of "good manner." Just shut up when you need to, and I mean that in the kindest way.
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I feel as if I have been struck in the face, but in the same motion, I was caressed by grazing lips and an inviting breath with a hint of vanilla.
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It's funny because everytime I see someone type "get over yourself" I think the same thing to the person who wrote that sentiment.
As far as the whole idea of him not typing out of "understanding" that the other person might take it the wrong way. That seems backwards and presumptuous although in practice probably the proper approach. I say backwards and presumptuous because it expects that we should hold him, blazinghand, to a higher standard of emotional sympathy than we hold the recipient.
This post too, to me, comes off as arrogant as well. All in all, there are stupid people, there are bm'ers, there are gm'ers evidently. Let them all go do their own thing and move on with your own life.
I understand this post in itself contradicts my last sentiment, but I don't care. Take it or leave it
EDIT: by "this post" i mean the one i'm typing. 
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Guys, I don't see why it's not good mannered to approach someone after a game (whether you beat them or they beat you) and politely ask to put aside hurt feelings or whatever, and form a cooperative relationship as practice partners. Maybe you disagree with his methods, but his heart is in the right place.
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On June 24 2011 11:06 Vod.kaholic wrote:
Guys, I don't see why it's not good mannered to approach someone after a game (whether you beat them or they beat you) and politely ask to put aside hurt feelings or whatever, and form a cooperative relationship as practice partners. Maybe you disagree with his methods, but his heart is in the right place.
Intentions are meaningless if they aren't recognized. Even worse when misinterpreted
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I barely ever post... but here goes
Dude people are getting mad at you because you try to talk to other people and they say that's bad manner. Well that's preposterous. People say that the game is most important and trying to interact with other people is bad manner. That's crazy. What's more important than interacting with people? Who cares if you won/lost/whatever. The most important thing is the fight against a living breathing opponent. That's why I now hate single player games (now that I'm older)
I believe the community is more important than the game. That's why I hate BM so much (and I get a hell of a lot of it in dota). I mean he's just trying to reach out and all you guys are telling him he's being a smart ass. He's honestly not; he's trying to be a HUMAN BEING. You guys are so warped or stuck up or something that you say that talking with other people is a bad thing. Stop being so closed minded and closed off to life and embrace it. Be optimistic, positive, life affirming, whatever to your fellow starcraftians. Don't forget to be honest too. What's wrong with you people.
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Haha blazing don't listen to all these people bitching. Do whatever you want to do.. everyone's only hating on you because they are assuming your intentions aren't what you say they are. Only you know if your intentions really are what you say they are.. so all I can say is that if they are true then message on... otherwise, the bitchers are right.
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On June 24 2011 11:07 Aletheia27 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 11:06 Vod.kaholic wrote:
Guys, I don't see why it's not good mannered to approach someone after a game (whether you beat them or they beat you) and politely ask to put aside hurt feelings or whatever, and form a cooperative relationship as practice partners. Maybe you disagree with his methods, but his heart is in the right place. Intentions are meaningless if they aren't recognized. Even worse when misinterpreted
Well really that places an equal burden on the addressee and the addresser. If your intentions are misinterpreted it's not necessarily your fault.
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On June 24 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 10:30 arb wrote:
From what it sounds all you do is just cheese them, then say "Hay man we should be practice buddies!!!'
Honestly, i dont know what youre trying to prove besides the fact that youre another cheesy Terran who messages someone after a game you've
A) Cheesed and failed
B) Cheesed and won
B1) They GG'd
B2)They left
and rubbing a win in by pretending you actually give a shit and wanna play practice games with them.
More or less your entire post and every post you made in this thread screams to me youre full of yourself and overall just another internet douchebag, pretending to be on some good manner crusade. First off, I'd just like to say that you have written an excellent post, and judging by your post count, you're clearly an excellent poster. I've gotten a fair amount of negativity in response to what i thought was a fairly benign blog post, and having veterans criticize me has brought me to reevaluate the way I've written/done things. Having thought about the way I phrased the OP, that's a reasonable interpretation of what I've said. I think now I know what the problem is: I've represented myself poorly. I have a sentence or two at the beginning of a long blog post about how I occasionally use allins and 1 base attacks in my play, and I feel no qualms about doing so. I would like to note that this is by no means the only way that I play, nor do said allins make up the majority of my play. It just so happens that I message most of my opponents after games looking for practice partners. Sometimes, I succeed. I have the most difficulty after games in which my opponents are upset after playing. As it were, some of these games are games in which I did a very early cheese attack or a 1 base all-in. I thought I'd make a blog post about how I try to help improve people's attitudes in Starcraft 2, and the strategies I have found most effective for getting to know people after games in which they are upset. Sorry if there was any confusion about the motivations behind my blog post 
Cool post man
You're a really great guy, I hope to meet you on ladder
We should practice sometime
I'm pleased that the usage of smiley faces and decent diction gives you some perverted sense of self-justified righteousness on the internet, because what you're saying is obviously complete and utter bullshit, so I'm glad you can ignore it
You're trolling, and posing a blog about how you like to troll people on battlenet
There isn't anything manner or right about PMing someone after a game and asking them to practice with you, it's just ridiculous and rage inducing
Not that you don't already know that, because that's what you're going for
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On June 24 2011 16:13 Endymion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On June 24 2011 10:30 arb wrote:
From what it sounds all you do is just cheese them, then say "Hay man we should be practice buddies!!!'
Honestly, i dont know what youre trying to prove besides the fact that youre another cheesy Terran who messages someone after a game you've
A) Cheesed and failed
B) Cheesed and won
B1) They GG'd
B2)They left
and rubbing a win in by pretending you actually give a shit and wanna play practice games with them.
More or less your entire post and every post you made in this thread screams to me youre full of yourself and overall just another internet douchebag, pretending to be on some good manner crusade. First off, I'd just like to say that you have written an excellent post, and judging by your post count, you're clearly an excellent poster. I've gotten a fair amount of negativity in response to what i thought was a fairly benign blog post, and having veterans criticize me has brought me to reevaluate the way I've written/done things. Having thought about the way I phrased the OP, that's a reasonable interpretation of what I've said. I think now I know what the problem is: I've represented myself poorly. I have a sentence or two at the beginning of a long blog post about how I occasionally use allins and 1 base attacks in my play, and I feel no qualms about doing so. I would like to note that this is by no means the only way that I play, nor do said allins make up the majority of my play. It just so happens that I message most of my opponents after games looking for practice partners. Sometimes, I succeed. I have the most difficulty after games in which my opponents are upset after playing. As it were, some of these games are games in which I did a very early cheese attack or a 1 base all-in. I thought I'd make a blog post about how I try to help improve people's attitudes in Starcraft 2, and the strategies I have found most effective for getting to know people after games in which they are upset. Sorry if there was any confusion about the motivations behind my blog post Cool post man You're a really great guy, I hope to meet you on ladder We should practice sometime I'm pleased that the usage of smiley faces and decent diction gives you some perverted sense of self-justified righteousness on the internet, because what you're saying is obviously complete and utter bullshit, so I'm glad you can ignore it You're trolling, and posing a blog about how you like to troll people on battlenet There isn't anything manner or right about PMing someone after a game and asking them to practice with you, it's just ridiculous and rage inducing Not that you don't already know that, because that's what you're going for
Wait he's trolling?
This is something id expect to see on Yahoo answers.
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On June 24 2011 10:49 Baladeva wrote:
Your view of being good manner is screwed up entirely... You can mask it by trying to seem polite, but you ultimately come off as a smart ass. And I see no point in recruiting practice partners...I bet you just cheese/allin when you "practice" with them.
Ya that's the last thing everyone wants. Lose a game to cheese, then asked to practice with that same person. I can't believe people don't jump all over that offer.
I wouldn't mind, it would be good practice so that if I encounter the same cheese I can beat easily.
You guys need to relax. Cheese & all in's are part of the game. The only person not benefiting would be the person doing it, because if all he does is cheese & all in everytime and gets into a higher league, people will be able to counter it more easily and he'll be stuck because that person (usually) can't play normal games as he's not used to it.
Win or loss don't think about it too much. Its just a game meant to be for fun, not a game to get your blood pressure up.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On June 24 2011 16:33 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 16:13 Endymion wrote:On June 24 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On June 24 2011 10:30 arb wrote:
From what it sounds all you do is just cheese them, then say "Hay man we should be practice buddies!!!'
Honestly, i dont know what youre trying to prove besides the fact that youre another cheesy Terran who messages someone after a game you've
A) Cheesed and failed
B) Cheesed and won
B1) They GG'd
B2)They left
and rubbing a win in by pretending you actually give a shit and wanna play practice games with them.
More or less your entire post and every post you made in this thread screams to me youre full of yourself and overall just another internet douchebag, pretending to be on some good manner crusade. First off, I'd just like to say that you have written an excellent post, and judging by your post count, you're clearly an excellent poster. I've gotten a fair amount of negativity in response to what i thought was a fairly benign blog post, and having veterans criticize me has brought me to reevaluate the way I've written/done things. Having thought about the way I phrased the OP, that's a reasonable interpretation of what I've said. I think now I know what the problem is: I've represented myself poorly. I have a sentence or two at the beginning of a long blog post about how I occasionally use allins and 1 base attacks in my play, and I feel no qualms about doing so. I would like to note that this is by no means the only way that I play, nor do said allins make up the majority of my play. It just so happens that I message most of my opponents after games looking for practice partners. Sometimes, I succeed. I have the most difficulty after games in which my opponents are upset after playing. As it were, some of these games are games in which I did a very early cheese attack or a 1 base all-in. I thought I'd make a blog post about how I try to help improve people's attitudes in Starcraft 2, and the strategies I have found most effective for getting to know people after games in which they are upset. Sorry if there was any confusion about the motivations behind my blog post Cool post man You're a really great guy, I hope to meet you on ladder We should practice sometime I'm pleased that the usage of smiley faces and decent diction gives you some perverted sense of self-justified righteousness on the internet, because what you're saying is obviously complete and utter bullshit, so I'm glad you can ignore it You're trolling, and posing a blog about how you like to troll people on battlenet There isn't anything manner or right about PMing someone after a game and asking them to practice with you, it's just ridiculous and rage inducing Not that you don't already know that, because that's what you're going for Wait he's trolling? This is something id expect to see on Yahoo answers.
Ok, so I feel the need to defend my rep here.
tl;dr: I'm a nice guy, not a troll or a douche.
long version:
I'd like to point out there's an alternative explanation for my post that's possible besides the presented possibilities, "youre full of yourself and overall just another internet douchebag" and "You're trolling, and posing a blog about how you like to troll people on battlenet " and that explanation is that I'm genuinely a nice dude, weird as it sounds. However, it seems the only people who are willing to consider that possibility are those with extremely low post counts who are either lurkers or uninvolved in the TL community, and those who think I'm either a Troll or a Douchebag are long-time members here who have been here a long time.
At this point, there's not much I can say to convince you guys that I genuinely like people, and don't want to mean to people on battle.net, that I haven't already said. In fact, I even posted a correction to my front page post admitting that I'd worded things poorly, and pointing out that I don't talk to people that I win against with an all-in, but ANYONE that I play when I'm looking for practice partners, especially people who beat me (since I'd rather practice against someone who's slightly better than me than someone who's slight worse).
I'm willing to concede that I worded my original blog post poorly, and that I come off the wrong way in it. I've got a big old quote at the top of it noting that in case anyone else stumbles across it. If you look at my other posts here on TL, you'll note that for the most part I post in the "simple questions, simple answers" thread with basic information, as well as responding to help strategy threads posted by people in bronze, silver and gold leagues (I wouldn't try to give advice to anyone better than that since I'm in Diamond league). I have a couple blog posts from earlier in the year when I was experimenting with tank play in TvP, as well as some cool movie posters I made, and some cosmetic edits to a few Terran Strategy articles in Liquipedia.
All in all, if you want to suppose that I *AM* a Troll, I'd be one who went through the long and involved process of helping edit Liquipedia, getting involved in the SC2 strategy community (heh, that might be a strike against me, given the quality of the average post pre-purge), setting up a stream and streaming content since the middle of last fall, purchasing lessons from Debo, and generally doing a brilliant job of molding myself into the shape of a semi-involved TL community member, all without resorting to trolling for ~7 months, writing several hundred posts and getting no bans or warnings in the process.
This sounds entirely implausible to me. You must concede that, unless I am the longest attention-spanned troll in the history of the internet, I am either a douche or a nice guy, and not counting some poor wording in the original post of one blog post, I have generally been a nice guy (though I might have badgered some people a little too hard in the sc2 strategy forum). So even if I am a douche, I am for the most part a nice guy.
I suppose I could produce evidence that I've met practice partners on battle.net after having played them on the ladder. Would that convince you?
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The issue with your draw is that you're entering a domain that he just left. You achieved your victory fairly, but that doesn't mean the other person enjoyed it or equally shares your neutral point.
They feel cheated, they feel that a match that should last at least enough for them to attest their skill or compare their play with yours is being taken from them by someone who plays an underhanded move that either works or fails depending on the person's reigns or ability to properly scout, identify or note what you're doing.
To engage with them afterwards online without proper tone or form of approaching them as you would offline can be heavily misinterpreted and no matter how much you say in the most sincere way or form, it doesn't rectify for what they perceive to be mean-spirited or just utter bullshit.
The bottom-line? They felt you owed them a proper and respectful match, once that perception is shattered, no words could rectify the situation.
It's best to leave them be.
P.S: Arb, you're being a bit aggressive, no? Very antagonistic @_@
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United States18076 Posts
Torte said everything I was thinking. I don't recommend msging people after you all in them, even if you are sincere.
As said many times before this they likely just don't want to hear it.
Besides, wouldn't you be better off asking people you lose to for practice games :p
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On August 03 2011 10:30 bri9and wrote:![[image loading]](http://snoop.burghcom.com/~brigand/bm/bm0074.png)
huh? I checked my recent history and don't see anyone of this name that I played.
Also, this thread has been dormant for over a month and you resurrect it? Why? I should be a Forum Cleric so I can cast Turn Unthread.
On August 03 2011 11:08 Torte de Lini wrote:
The issue with your draw is that you're entering a domain that he just left. You achieved your victory fairly, but that doesn't mean the other person enjoyed it or equally shares your neutral point.
They feel cheated, they feel that a match that should last at least enough for them to attest their skill or compare their play with yours is being taken from them by someone who plays an underhanded move that either works or fails depending on the person's reigns or ability to properly scout, identify or note what you're doing.
To engage with them afterwards online without proper tone or form of approaching them as you would offline can be heavily misinterpreted and no matter how much you say in the most sincere way or form, it doesn't rectify for what they perceive to be mean-spirited or just utter bullshit.
The bottom-line? They felt you owed them a proper and respectful match, once that perception is shattered, no words could rectify the situation.
It's best to leave them be.
P.S: Arb, you're being a bit aggressive, no? Very antagonistic @_@
That's a fair point. Please consider the following, however:
- I only message a small number of people who I beat, since I prefer practice partners who I think are better than me; most of my practice partners are people who beat me on ladder.
- Of the people I message, some of them are upset following the game. Sometimes, since I'm a reasonable fellow and they actually chillax and we become friends.
- The idea that I have poor tone or form may or may not be accurate, since tone is hard to convey in electronic written media. I do my best to have a respectful, friendly tone however.
- Bottom line, in my opinion, is that the worst case scenario of approaching someone after a game is that they bm me and block me; it's no problem for me. Most of the time, they're not interested and not bm. Sometimes, they're interested and we become friends. This is the best outcome, and it is good.
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On August 03 2011 11:50 Blazinghand wrote:huh? I checked my recent history and don't see anyone of this name that I played. Also, this thread has been dormant for over a month and you resurrect it? Why? I should be a Forum Cleric so I can cast Turn Unthread. Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:08 Torte de Lini wrote:
The issue with your draw is that you're entering a domain that he just left. You achieved your victory fairly, but that doesn't mean the other person enjoyed it or equally shares your neutral point.
They feel cheated, they feel that a match that should last at least enough for them to attest their skill or compare their play with yours is being taken from them by someone who plays an underhanded move that either works or fails depending on the person's reigns or ability to properly scout, identify or note what you're doing.
To engage with them afterwards online without proper tone or form of approaching them as you would offline can be heavily misinterpreted and no matter how much you say in the most sincere way or form, it doesn't rectify for what they perceive to be mean-spirited or just utter bullshit.
The bottom-line? They felt you owed them a proper and respectful match, once that perception is shattered, no words could rectify the situation.
It's best to leave them be.
P.S: Arb, you're being a bit aggressive, no? Very antagonistic @_@ That's a fair point. Please consider the following, however: - I only message a small number of people who I beat, since I prefer practice partners who I think are better than me; most of my practice partners are people who beat me on ladder.
- Of the people I message, some of them are upset following the game. Sometimes, since I'm a reasonable fellow and they actually chillax and we become friends.
- The idea that I have poor tone or form may or may not be accurate, since tone is hard to convey in electronic written media. I do my best to have a respectful, friendly tone however.
- Bottom line, in my opinion, is that the worst case scenario of approaching someone after a game is that they bm me and block me; it's no problem for me. Most of the time, they're not interested and not bm. Sometimes, they're interested and we become friends. This is the best outcome, and it is good.
There are plenty of level-minded people who you can contact to practice with. TL accommodates with both a topic and a IRC channel. There is also Obs. custom maps and other places.
- Better yet, why contact them immediately when you can contact them at another point in time where the sting of the match isn't so fresh. Most people won't want to practice with you after matching you on ladder because they don't regard you as worthwhile since you are cheesing. Consider from their point of view of what they gain playing someone they already beat or resort to tactics they demean.
- Tone is hard to convey especially when the person is looking to lash out or just wants to be left alone to mediate their issues and problems. If you sucker-punch me and then ask me to train with you at the boxing ring, you think I'd be inclined to agree?
- I'm not denying that you might make more friends or find people to be rather docile despite your ploys or "cheapened" strategies, but imagine what kind of person you're portraying yourself to be, especially in a blog that is intended to be about yourself and to be talked about yourself. Is there a misinterpretation of your intentions? You bet, but do you blame them?
- Bottom line being, why contact the very person who sees you in such a poor light when there are an abundant amount of people right up your alley to spar with
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On August 03 2011 12:14 Torte de Lini wrote:- Better yet, why contact them immediately when you can contact them at another point in time where the sting of the match isn't so fresh. Most people won't want to practice with you after matching you on ladder because they don't regard you as worthwhile since you are cheesing. Consider from their point of view of what they gain playing someone they already beat or resort to tactics they demean.
- Tone is hard to convey especially when the person is looking to lash out or just wants to be left alone to mediate their issues and problems. If you sucker-punch me and then ask me to train with you at the boxing ring, you think I'd be inclined to agree?
- I'm not denying that you might make more friends or find people to be rather docile despite your ploys or "cheapened" strategies, but imagine what kind of person you're portraying yourself to be, especially in a blog that is intended to be about yourself and to be talked about yourself. Is there a misinterpretation of your intentions? You bet, but do you blame them?
- Bottom line being, why contact the very person who sees you in such a poor light when there are an abundant amount of people right up your alley to spar with
That's a fair point; it might be more effective and I could have better retention rates if I didn't contact my opponents right away. I'll include a delay in the future, especially when people BM me before leaving the game. Thanks for the advice.
I'd also like to note that I don't cheese in all games, or even in a majority of games-- and certainly not in a majority of games that I win, since most people are quite capable of holding off cheese. However, when I DO all-in for whatever strategic reason (1 gate FE, or hatch first close positions, or what have you) sometimes people are upset, and these people make up a subset of the people I interact with post-match in recruiting practice partners. This thread concerns my dealing with them, and how being good-mannered often reaches those who perceive the internet to be full of trolls and mean people.
I also make use of the TL IRC and the practice partners thread, but I like to draw my opponents from a variety of sources.
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You don't to validate yourself with me. I accept everyone and anyone so long as I'm equally accepted.
I'm like Jesus except I don't defy biological forms of reproduction, rely on my father's stature to get into the sweet eternal land of Heaven and make poor jokes perhaps insulting the very religion I was raised to follow.
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EPT
