On June 24 2011 10:30 arb wrote: From what it sounds all you do is just cheese them, then say "Hay man we should be practice buddies!!!'
Honestly, i dont know what youre trying to prove besides the fact that youre another cheesy Terran who messages someone after a game you've A) Cheesed and failed B) Cheesed and won B1) They GG'd B2)They left
and rubbing a win in by pretending you actually give a shit and wanna play practice games with them.
More or less your entire post and every post you made in this thread screams to me youre full of yourself and overall just another internet douchebag, pretending to be on some good manner crusade.
First off, I'd just like to say that you have written an excellent post, and judging by your post count, you're clearly an excellent poster. I've gotten a fair amount of negativity in response to what i thought was a fairly benign blog post, and having veterans criticize me has brought me to reevaluate the way I've written/done things.
Having thought about the way I phrased the OP, that's a reasonable interpretation of what I've said. I think now I know what the problem is: I've represented myself poorly. I have a sentence or two at the beginning of a long blog post about how I occasionally use allins and 1 base attacks in my play, and I feel no qualms about doing so. I would like to note that this is by no means the only way that I play, nor do said allins make up the majority of my play.
It just so happens that I message most of my opponents after games looking for practice partners. Sometimes, I succeed. I have the most difficulty after games in which my opponents are upset after playing. As it were, some of these games are games in which I did a very early cheese attack or a 1 base all-in. I thought I'd make a blog post about how I try to help improve people's attitudes in Starcraft 2, and the strategies I have found most effective for getting to know people after games in which they are upset. Sorry if there was any confusion about the motivations behind my blog post
Dealing with Bad Manner
Maybe you've met me on the ladder. Maybe we played. And maybe, JUST MAYBE, you BMed me at the end of the game. My style of play certainly warrants it, at times: I pull no punches, especially in TvZ; if you hatch first in close pos metalopolis, I will allin with 3 Marines and 10 SCVs. If you only make 2 or 3 queens, I will thordrop / banshee harass and allin you off of 1 base. I'll do what it takes to win. But that is where my no-holds-barred attitude stops.
I will never BM you. Even when I lose my scvs to superior drone micro, and you crush me and say "lawl noob terran only allins", or even when I successfully allin or harass you and you quit saying "omg terran can do an infinite number of allins on one base" or even if we play a straight up macro game and my MMMVG is overwhelmed by your wacky protoss antics, I will never end a game without typing "gg wp" (if I'm angry I might just type a curt "gg"). Somehow, somewhere I find it in me to always be good mannered.
I imagine this is not uncommon, either-- not everyone rages, and many people have excellent manner. Starcraft 2 has more in common with, say, fencing, or chess, than it does with pro wrestling. It's a gentleman's duel, and both sides fight with grit and respect. The other player is not your enemy, but rather, your adversary. He may be your opponent for the day, but you share a bond of being a Starcraft 2 player, a competitor in the greatest of great e-sports, even at the low level you play at. The good-mannered, quiet players vastly outnumber the ragers and bad-mannered people.
Where I differ is how I respond to those with bad manner. Should you leave without a "gg", should you angrily cry OP, that will not stop me. I will chat you after the game and I will QUELL YOUR RAGE. It's not enough to silently watch as my opponent ragequits our game. I cannot let that slide so easily. Indeed, as I open the "chat" button after the game, my stream viewers no doubt think I'm getting geared up to rub the salt in your wounds. "Nice queen micro", I would say, or "if I'm so bad how did I beat you" could be another triumphant, prideful response.
I can only imagine the surprise that you and my viewers feel as I send my first messages: "gg wp", I will begin, "you're clearly an excellent player. perhaps one of the best I've played in a long while." And you will respond angrily, hurt, not wanting to be kind, for fear of opening up, of showing your humanity to only be stung, and hurt again-- to open your doors to the praise to only find stinging insults that could follow this well-mannered opening phrase from me. But where there is fear, I shall replace it with calmness, with happiness. I will not betray you. I will not hestitate from my duty, the good-mannered player's burden. Even in your hesitant anger, I can sense the poor, hurt human within you, trying to break free from the Troll exterior.
"I enjoyed playing with you-- I was wondering, would you be up for some practice games in the future?" I send, again reaching out across the grim darkness of the internet to bring warmth to a cold, bitter soul. Another pause. Maybe you respond thankfully, the cold hard shield around your heart melted away by a human response in a foreign, digital land. Maybe you don't respond at all, or, still fearing for your own emotional state, continue to BM me. I will not falter. "I'm part of a practice group that hangs out in chat channel PEJ... I guess you're in a game because you're not responding. Feel free to drop by any time! We're always looking for more zerg players."
And sometimes, finally, you respond, forsaking the usual b.net aloofness you bear against the uncaring anonymous masses of battle.net. You say you'll drop by, or thank me, or even reply with a "gg", and if nothing else, even in silence, you will let yourself be touched by a stranger's kindness, if only for a moment. Maybe you'll play better in your next game, or maybe you'll just have better manner with your next opponent. Maybe all that will happen is that you'll feel a bit better about yourself, and about life. All that matters, though, is that for a moment we stopped being enemies and instead became fellow men, respected rivals, humans who could rise above the void of the electronic interface and find hope.
You are being an ass if you chat to someone who leaves without a gg after you all-in them. You might enjoy it but don't kid yourself that your motivations are anything but selfish. It's borderline harrasment.
It's not obligatory to gg someone before you leave a game.
I'd also like to say that playing starcraft with the intention of winning at all costs is stupid. The only thing 99% of people gain from playing SC2 is the enjoyment that comes from playing the game. SC2 can be a complex and beautiful game, but it isn't when you're always facing terrans exploiting their early game advantage by all-inning and cheesing. If you were playing for money at MLG I could see why you'd do it, but when you're chilling on the ladder, wtf is the point?
On June 24 2011 06:20 deathly rat wrote: You are being an ass if you chat to someone who leaves without a gg after you all-in them. You might enjoy it but don't kid yourself that your motivations are anything but selfish. It's borderline harrasment.
I invite them to my group. This is how I get most of my practice partners.
On June 24 2011 06:25 Swissky wrote: "The player is ignoring you."
Hah! Your kind words and meaningful gestures are useless on me!
I don't really mind that much, but players who triple face smiley me get reported, I'm not standing for that rubbish.
I had a game the other day where the guy didn't speak all game, and after he beat me, I sent him a message asking if he'd be interested in practicing at some point in the future. He had preemptively blocked me
I had a game the other day where the guy didn't speak all game, and after he beat me, I sent him a message asking if he'd be interested in practicing at some point in the future. He had preemptively blocked me
Sometimes if I'm having a bad day online I'll just say "glgl" and then immediately block through the F11 message log just cause I don't want to hear anything. That's probably what happened in this case.
On June 24 2011 06:39 Gfox wrote: congrats on allining every game and thinking your awesome
Thanks! I usually make an orbital before pulling scvs, so that with mules I still have mineral income during the allin. [EDIT: This is so that I can continue to produce marines and scvs to reinforce and continue mining] It's not the only strategy I use, but it's on the list.
On June 24 2011 06:34 Calm wrote: You could message me any time after I beat you Blazinghand. After reading this, I will try to not to BM, just in case you're at the other end
My Bnet character name is Blazinghand, so that should tip you off I hope to run into you on ladder.
Whenever someone BMs me now I respond with "man, just enjoy the game" and leave it at that. also lol:
I cannot let that slide so easily. Indeed, as I open the "chat" button after the game, my stream viewers no doubt think I'm getting geared up to rub the salt in your wounds. "Nice queen micro", I would say, or "if I'm so bad how did I beat you" could be another triumphant, prideful response.
I cannot let that slide so easily. Indeed, as I open the "chat" button after the game, my stream viewers no doubt think I'm getting geared up to rub the salt in your wounds. "Nice queen micro", I would say, or "if I'm so bad how did I beat you" could be another triumphant, prideful response.
Stream viewers? Who? All 4 of them? lol
Actually I often get as many as 2. I only get 4+ viewers if I ask my friends to watch, but that doesn't really count IMO.
On June 24 2011 06:25 Swissky wrote: "The player is ignoring you."
Hah! Your kind words and meaningful gestures are useless on me!
I don't really mind that much, but players who triple face smiley me get reported, I'm not standing for that rubbish.
yeah who the hell does he think he is, making a smiley face at you? ....
report him for what? for doing a smiley? im pretty sure blizzard has more important things to do than ban people, who doesnt even bm, but sends you a smiley face?
I constantly get msg'd "i hope you die of cancer you terran fag"
On June 24 2011 06:20 Jinsho wrote: This is a parody of that other really smug post from earlier today where someone posted how much he loved BMing other players.
On June 24 2011 06:01 Zapdos_Smithh wrote: Get over yourself
pretty much this
I don't understand why people get so butt frustrated because someone doesnt gg to them, then they have the audacity to message them after the game and harass them
On June 24 2011 06:01 Zapdos_Smithh wrote: Get over yourself
pretty much this
I don't understand why people get so butt frustrated because someone doesnt gg to them, then they have the audacity to message them after the game and harass them
i mean seriously?
I don't mean to be mean. I also chat with people who beat me, am I only allowed to chat with players who beat me?
On June 24 2011 06:01 Zapdos_Smithh wrote: Get over yourself
pretty much this
I don't understand why people get so butt frustrated because someone doesnt gg to them, then they have the audacity to message them after the game and harass them
i mean seriously?
I don't mean to be mean. I also chat with people who beat me, am I only allowed to chat with players who beat me?
It might not be your intention to annoy them, but that's how it's perceived as. Try to understand how other people may think. The world doesn't think the same way as you. Many people can be offended if a winner chats them up; especially when the winner says "well played" when they just lost. They probably thought they played a terrible game and just want to move on to the next game.
I don't just say "gg wp" though, I let them know that I personally think they're a good player, and I invite them to practice in the future with me! I'm not just being like "HAY MAN IM GONNA RUB THIS IN YOUR FACE" cause that woudl be a dick move. I don't want my only interaction with this guy to be him beating me or me beating him, when we could go on to become practice partners or something. And I do this regardless of whether they won or lost. Am I supposed to not be a friendly person just because other people are in a bad mood? When I play a game of soccer, I shake the hand of everyone on the other team and let them know it was a good game whether I won or lost. Is starcraft 2 somehow less honorable than soccer?
And against people who beat me and are beaten by me, many respond and I play games with them later and we have lots of fun! So I don't see what the problem is. If someone's in a bad mood, they have to read 2 sentences of me telling them they're a good player and that I'd like to practice with them at some point in the future. Is that really so terrible? In fact, maybe, just maybe, it'll cheer them up and they'll rediscover the value of love, friendship, and humanity!
On June 24 2011 08:15 TheFrankOne wrote: Lol, I love this thread, its like the replies are testing if his manner can hold up to pressure or not.
Out of curiosity is that the real chat channel you use? I might stop by.
honestly he just sounds like a nobody whos full of himself and wants to pretend ppl in this community care about him. Trash talking someone because they dont GG you? What the fuck lol
On June 24 2011 08:15 TheFrankOne wrote: Lol, I love this thread, its like the replies are testing if his manner can hold up to pressure or not.
Out of curiosity is that the real chat channel you use? I might stop by.
honestly he just sounds like a nobody whos full of himself and wants to pretend ppl in this community care about him. Trash talking someone because they dont GG you? What the fuck lol
sorry
I didn't mean to offend. I also talk to people who DO GG me, as well as people who I GG, for what it's worth. It just doesn't seem that unusual to me to communicate with my opponents after a match. It's most difficult with people who are mad, though, and I think that it's pretty unusual for angry people to meet friendly people on b.net, since if they did meet a lot of friendly people on b.net they wouldn't be angry, right?
On June 24 2011 08:47 krndandaman wrote: Idk about you, but if someone tells me I'm a "good player" after beating me it almost sounds sarcastic. "Yeah, you call me a good player but I just lost to you so that means you're an even better player, right?" That's what goes through many people's heads.
I can see how that would be the case. But I don't just leave it there; I don't want to be like "hey man, you're not bad FOR A DUDE I JUST BEAT" cause that would be a dick move!
Sometimes, if he seems particularly upset, I'll note "oh, you just lost to an unlucky timing attack, which happens" and sometimes i'll add that "close spawns on metalopolis is really terrible I wish blizzard used MLG metalopolis instead, cause close spawns is broken." If a dude is particularly upset, it's usually not directed at me, but at game/map balance. I try to empathize and help people out.
On June 24 2011 08:47 krndandaman wrote: I can understand you wanting to get to know people and not just do mindless laddering but not alot of people share the same sentiments as you. When I used to play SC:BW casually I just wanted to play games and get off. I had no one on my buddy list except RL friends and didn't want to make any online friends. It's just personal preference. And I don't get where honor comes in in soccer and starcraft 2... Also I think this is the problem. Why do you assume people who don't think the same way you do about making friends on an online game don't know the value of love, friendship, and humanity? I know you don't mean it literally, but come on
I mean, if a dude doesn't want to practice with me, that's totally chill. This is like 90% of dudes. But the thing is, I can't find this out without asking him, now can I? And it's super easy to approach dudes who have good manner, or dudes who beat me (even if they are bm about it), since these guys usually want to talk. But just because a guy is in a bad mood and bms a little doesn't mean he's not gonna be a good practice buddy! In fact, maybe he's looking for a practice buddy and that's why he's in a bad mood! So I blogged about the hard situation, not the easy one
I don't want to rule out a potential buddy just because he's having a bad day that would be unfair
We are mothers and fathers. And sons and daughters. Who every day go about our lives with duty, honor and pride. And neither snow, nor rain, nor heat, nor gloom of night, nor the winds of change, nor a nation challenged, will stay us from the swift completion of our appointed rounds. Ever.
On June 24 2011 08:15 TheFrankOne wrote: Lol, I love this thread, its like the replies are testing if his manner can hold up to pressure or not.
Out of curiosity is that the real chat channel you use? I might stop by.
honestly he just sounds like a nobody whos full of himself and wants to pretend ppl in this community care about him. Trash talking someone because they dont GG you? What the fuck lol
sorry
I didn't mean to offend. I also talk to people who DO GG me, as well as people who I GG, for what it's worth. It just doesn't seem that unusual to me to communicate with my opponents after a match. It's most difficult with people who are mad, though, and I think that it's pretty unusual for angry people to meet friendly people on b.net, since if they did meet a lot of friendly people on b.net they wouldn't be angry, right?
You're just catching someone right as they're angry, dont even pretend thats good mannered. If some1 is annoyed enough to BM you or rage quit the last thing they want is some cheesy Terran to give them empty, meaningless praise like "you are one of the best players i have played". It's like trying to interview a player directly after they lose a game...of course they're going to be mad at that moment and probably say something stupid.
Just understand that 1) people probably don't want you to talk to them after you cheese them and they get annoyed 2) you should get over yourself and stop assuming your conversation with random people has any value or will make them friendly or quell their rage or w/e.
On June 24 2011 09:10 TheSubtleArt wrote:You're just catching someone right as they're angry, dont even pretend thats good mannered. If some1 is annoyed enough to BM you or rage quit the last thing they want is some cheesy Terran to give them empty, meaningless praise like "you are one of the best players i have played". It's like trying to interview a player directly after they lose a game...of course they're going to be mad at that moment and probably say something stupid.
Well... I don't say they're one of the best players I have played unless they're one of the best players I have played. I do tell them that they're skilled, though, and this is always the case-- I'm usually matched against people of very similar talent to me on ladder and the battles could go either way. I try to be as sincere as possible in my compliments.
On June 24 2011 09:10 TheSubtleArt wrote:Just understand that 1) people probably don't want you to talk to them after you cheese them and they get annoyed 2) you should get over yourself and stop assuming your conversation with random people has any value or will make them friendly or quell their rage or w/e.
Many times, it doesn't; sometimes I get ignored, sometimes I get active blocked. Sometimes it even makes them madder ((
BUT sometimes, they chillax, realize that we're both cool dudes who should chill, and we play some practice games later. I don't deign to assume that everyone wants to practice with me; but some people will, if I ask, and I don't want to miss out on an opportunity to make a new friend. Even if 9 / 10 people are mad and don't want to hear me and don't respond, 1 / 10 become a new buddy! and that's totally worth it for both of us :D. And even the dudes who don't respond may be glad to know that there are nice people out on the internet
I don't see any reason not to spread good cheer to all who I encounter <3 and it's totally worth it to talk to some strangers on the internet and make a friend or two.
On June 24 2011 06:01 Zapdos_Smithh wrote: Get over yourself
pretty much this
I don't understand why people get so butt frustrated because someone doesnt gg to them, then they have the audacity to message them after the game and harass them
i mean seriously?
I don't think it is that different from BM though - all just people negatively reacting to others' actions.
On June 24 2011 06:01 Zapdos_Smithh wrote: Get over yourself
pretty much this
I don't understand why people get so butt frustrated because someone doesnt gg to them, then they have the audacity to message them after the game and harass them
i mean seriously?
I don't think it is that different from BM though - all just people negatively reacting to others' actions.
Yes, this is it exactly! The point is to reverse the downward spiral of negativity and put some positive emotions in there consider it "GM"ing someone (for good "mannering" them)
On June 24 2011 06:01 Zapdos_Smithh wrote: Get over yourself
pretty much this
I don't understand why people get so butt frustrated because someone doesnt gg to them, then they have the audacity to message them after the game and harass them
i mean seriously?
I don't think it is that different from BM though - all just people negatively reacting to others' actions.
Yes, this is it exactly! The point is to reverse the downward spiral of negativity and put some positive emotions in there consider it "GM"ing someone (for good "mannering" them)
Whether you realize it or not, messaging some1 after u cheese them and they "rage quit" is obnoxious and a majority of people would prefer you piss off.
On June 24 2011 06:01 Zapdos_Smithh wrote: Get over yourself
pretty much this
I don't understand why people get so butt frustrated because someone doesnt gg to them, then they have the audacity to message them after the game and harass them
i mean seriously?
I don't think it is that different from BM though - all just people negatively reacting to others' actions.
Yes, this is it exactly! The point is to reverse the downward spiral of negativity and put some positive emotions in there consider it "GM"ing someone (for good "mannering" them)
Whether you realize it or not, messaging some1 after u cheese them and they "rage quit" is obnoxious and a majority of people would prefer you piss off.
I could see how this might be upsetting to some people. However, would you consider it to be appropriate to message someone if I lost to them, or won against them without cheesing? How is it fundamentally differently appropriate if I used a different tactic in a game when pursuing a possible friendship with a person? After all, this would be one game among many, and my goal is spreading cheer.
On June 24 2011 06:01 Zapdos_Smithh wrote: Get over yourself
pretty much this
I don't understand why people get so butt frustrated because someone doesnt gg to them, then they have the audacity to message them after the game and harass them
i mean seriously?
I don't think it is that different from BM though - all just people negatively reacting to others' actions.
Yes, this is it exactly! The point is to reverse the downward spiral of negativity and put some positive emotions in there consider it "GM"ing someone (for good "mannering" them)
Whether you realize it or not, messaging some1 after u cheese them and they "rage quit" is obnoxious and a majority of people would prefer you piss off.
I could see how this might be upsetting to some people. However, would you consider it to be appropriate to message someone if I lost to them, or won against them without cheesing? How is it fundamentally differently appropriate if I used a different tactic in a game when pursuing a possible friendship with a person? After all, this would be one game among many, and my goal is spreading cheer.
From what it sounds all you do is just cheese them, then say "Hay man we should be practice buddies!!!'
Honestly, i dont know what youre trying to prove besides the fact that youre another cheesy Terran who messages someone after a game you've A) Cheesed and failed B) Cheesed and won B1) They GG'd B2)They left
and rubbing a win in by pretending you actually give a shit and wanna play practice games with them.
More or less your entire post and every post you made in this thread screams to me youre full of yourself and overall just another internet douchebag, pretending to be on some good manner crusade.
On June 24 2011 10:30 arb wrote: From what it sounds all you do is just cheese them, then say "Hay man we should be practice buddies!!!'
Honestly, i dont know what youre trying to prove besides the fact that youre another cheesy Terran who messages someone after a game you've A) Cheesed and failed B) Cheesed and won B1) They GG'd B2)They left
and rubbing a win in by pretending you actually give a shit and wanna play practice games with them.
More or less your entire post and every post you made in this thread screams to me youre full of yourself and overall just another internet douchebag, pretending to be on some good manner crusade.
First off, I'd just like to say that you have written an excellent post, and judging by your post count, you're clearly an excellent poster. I've gotten a fair amount of negativity in response to what i thought was a fairly benign blog post, and having veterans criticize me has brought me to reevaluate the way I've written/done things.
Having thought about the way I phrased the OP, that's a reasonable interpretation of what I've said. I think now I know what the problem is: I've represented myself poorly. I have a sentence or two at the beginning of a long blog post about how I occasionally use allins and 1 base attacks in my play, and I feel no qualms about doing so. I would like to note that this is by no means the only way that I play, nor do said allins make up the majority of my play.
It just so happens that I message most of my opponents after games looking for practice partners. Sometimes, I succeed. I have the most difficulty after games in which my opponents are upset after playing. As it were, some of these games are games in which I did a very early cheese attack or a 1 base all-in. I thought I'd make a blog post about how I try to help improve people's attitudes in Starcraft 2, and the strategies I have found most effective for getting to know people after games in which they are upset. Sorry if there was any confusion about the motivations behind my blog post
Your view of being good manner is screwed up entirely... You can mask it by trying to seem polite, but you ultimately come off as a smart ass. And I see no point in recruiting practice partners...I bet you just cheese/allin when you "practice" with them.
Ya that's the last thing everyone wants. Lose a game to cheese, then asked to practice with that same person. I can't believe people don't jump all over that offer.
On June 24 2011 10:49 Baladeva wrote: Your view of being good manner is screwed up entirely... You can mask it by trying to seem polite, but you ultimately come off as a smart ass. And I see no point in recruiting practice partners...I bet you just cheese/allin when you "practice" with them.
Ya that's the last thing everyone wants. Lose a game to cheese, then asked to practice with that same person. I can't believe people don't jump all over that offer.
That's a reasonable thing to say, given that you didn't have a chance to read the post I posted while you were writing that post. I don't just cheese then ask people if they want to practice if I win. I also get practice partners from games I lose, and games I don't cheese, both of which substantially outnumber the games in which I do cheese. I'm sorry that I wasn't clear about this when I initially wrote the blog post.
EDIT: I have edited the OP originally, adding in an explanation before the start of the article. I haven't modified the article proper, in order to preserve it that others' comments might make sense.
You have to realize that sometimes being silent is better than trying to act friendly with meaningless and empty "compliments." Unfortunately you have a skewed perception of "good manner." Just shut up when you need to, and I mean that in the kindest way.
It's funny because everytime I see someone type "get over yourself" I think the same thing to the person who wrote that sentiment.
As far as the whole idea of him not typing out of "understanding" that the other person might take it the wrong way. That seems backwards and presumptuous although in practice probably the proper approach. I say backwards and presumptuous because it expects that we should hold him, blazinghand, to a higher standard of emotional sympathy than we hold the recipient.
This post too, to me, comes off as arrogant as well. All in all, there are stupid people, there are bm'ers, there are gm'ers evidently. Let them all go do their own thing and move on with your own life.
I understand this post in itself contradicts my last sentiment, but I don't care. Take it or leave it
Guys, I don't see why it's not good mannered to approach someone after a game (whether you beat them or they beat you) and politely ask to put aside hurt feelings or whatever, and form a cooperative relationship as practice partners. Maybe you disagree with his methods, but his heart is in the right place.
On June 24 2011 11:06 Vod.kaholic wrote: Guys, I don't see why it's not good mannered to approach someone after a game (whether you beat them or they beat you) and politely ask to put aside hurt feelings or whatever, and form a cooperative relationship as practice partners. Maybe you disagree with his methods, but his heart is in the right place.
Intentions are meaningless if they aren't recognized. Even worse when misinterpreted
Dude people are getting mad at you because you try to talk to other people and they say that's bad manner. Well that's preposterous. People say that the game is most important and trying to interact with other people is bad manner. That's crazy. What's more important than interacting with people? Who cares if you won/lost/whatever. The most important thing is the fight against a living breathing opponent. That's why I now hate single player games (now that I'm older)
I believe the community is more important than the game. That's why I hate BM so much (and I get a hell of a lot of it in dota). I mean he's just trying to reach out and all you guys are telling him he's being a smart ass. He's honestly not; he's trying to be a HUMAN BEING. You guys are so warped or stuck up or something that you say that talking with other people is a bad thing. Stop being so closed minded and closed off to life and embrace it. Be optimistic, positive, life affirming, whatever to your fellow starcraftians. Don't forget to be honest too. What's wrong with you people.
Haha blazing don't listen to all these people bitching. Do whatever you want to do.. everyone's only hating on you because they are assuming your intentions aren't what you say they are. Only you know if your intentions really are what you say they are.. so all I can say is that if they are true then message on... otherwise, the bitchers are right.
On June 24 2011 11:06 Vod.kaholic wrote: Guys, I don't see why it's not good mannered to approach someone after a game (whether you beat them or they beat you) and politely ask to put aside hurt feelings or whatever, and form a cooperative relationship as practice partners. Maybe you disagree with his methods, but his heart is in the right place.
Intentions are meaningless if they aren't recognized. Even worse when misinterpreted
Well really that places an equal burden on the addressee and the addresser. If your intentions are misinterpreted it's not necessarily your fault.
On June 24 2011 10:30 arb wrote: From what it sounds all you do is just cheese them, then say "Hay man we should be practice buddies!!!'
Honestly, i dont know what youre trying to prove besides the fact that youre another cheesy Terran who messages someone after a game you've A) Cheesed and failed B) Cheesed and won B1) They GG'd B2)They left
and rubbing a win in by pretending you actually give a shit and wanna play practice games with them.
More or less your entire post and every post you made in this thread screams to me youre full of yourself and overall just another internet douchebag, pretending to be on some good manner crusade.
First off, I'd just like to say that you have written an excellent post, and judging by your post count, you're clearly an excellent poster. I've gotten a fair amount of negativity in response to what i thought was a fairly benign blog post, and having veterans criticize me has brought me to reevaluate the way I've written/done things.
Having thought about the way I phrased the OP, that's a reasonable interpretation of what I've said. I think now I know what the problem is: I've represented myself poorly. I have a sentence or two at the beginning of a long blog post about how I occasionally use allins and 1 base attacks in my play, and I feel no qualms about doing so. I would like to note that this is by no means the only way that I play, nor do said allins make up the majority of my play.
It just so happens that I message most of my opponents after games looking for practice partners. Sometimes, I succeed. I have the most difficulty after games in which my opponents are upset after playing. As it were, some of these games are games in which I did a very early cheese attack or a 1 base all-in. I thought I'd make a blog post about how I try to help improve people's attitudes in Starcraft 2, and the strategies I have found most effective for getting to know people after games in which they are upset. Sorry if there was any confusion about the motivations behind my blog post
Cool post man
You're a really great guy, I hope to meet you on ladder
We should practice sometime
I'm pleased that the usage of smiley faces and decent diction gives you some perverted sense of self-justified righteousness on the internet, because what you're saying is obviously complete and utter bullshit, so I'm glad you can ignore it
You're trolling, and posing a blog about how you like to troll people on battlenet
There isn't anything manner or right about PMing someone after a game and asking them to practice with you, it's just ridiculous and rage inducing
Not that you don't already know that, because that's what you're going for
On June 24 2011 10:30 arb wrote: From what it sounds all you do is just cheese them, then say "Hay man we should be practice buddies!!!'
Honestly, i dont know what youre trying to prove besides the fact that youre another cheesy Terran who messages someone after a game you've A) Cheesed and failed B) Cheesed and won B1) They GG'd B2)They left
and rubbing a win in by pretending you actually give a shit and wanna play practice games with them.
More or less your entire post and every post you made in this thread screams to me youre full of yourself and overall just another internet douchebag, pretending to be on some good manner crusade.
First off, I'd just like to say that you have written an excellent post, and judging by your post count, you're clearly an excellent poster. I've gotten a fair amount of negativity in response to what i thought was a fairly benign blog post, and having veterans criticize me has brought me to reevaluate the way I've written/done things.
Having thought about the way I phrased the OP, that's a reasonable interpretation of what I've said. I think now I know what the problem is: I've represented myself poorly. I have a sentence or two at the beginning of a long blog post about how I occasionally use allins and 1 base attacks in my play, and I feel no qualms about doing so. I would like to note that this is by no means the only way that I play, nor do said allins make up the majority of my play.
It just so happens that I message most of my opponents after games looking for practice partners. Sometimes, I succeed. I have the most difficulty after games in which my opponents are upset after playing. As it were, some of these games are games in which I did a very early cheese attack or a 1 base all-in. I thought I'd make a blog post about how I try to help improve people's attitudes in Starcraft 2, and the strategies I have found most effective for getting to know people after games in which they are upset. Sorry if there was any confusion about the motivations behind my blog post
Cool post man
You're a really great guy, I hope to meet you on ladder
We should practice sometime
I'm pleased that the usage of smiley faces and decent diction gives you some perverted sense of self-justified righteousness on the internet, because what you're saying is obviously complete and utter bullshit, so I'm glad you can ignore it
You're trolling, and posing a blog about how you like to troll people on battlenet
There isn't anything manner or right about PMing someone after a game and asking them to practice with you, it's just ridiculous and rage inducing
Not that you don't already know that, because that's what you're going for
Wait he's trolling?
This is something id expect to see on Yahoo answers.
On June 24 2011 10:49 Baladeva wrote: Your view of being good manner is screwed up entirely... You can mask it by trying to seem polite, but you ultimately come off as a smart ass. And I see no point in recruiting practice partners...I bet you just cheese/allin when you "practice" with them.
Ya that's the last thing everyone wants. Lose a game to cheese, then asked to practice with that same person. I can't believe people don't jump all over that offer.
I wouldn't mind, it would be good practice so that if I encounter the same cheese I can beat easily.
You guys need to relax. Cheese & all in's are part of the game. The only person not benefiting would be the person doing it, because if all he does is cheese & all in everytime and gets into a higher league, people will be able to counter it more easily and he'll be stuck because that person (usually) can't play normal games as he's not used to it.
Win or loss don't think about it too much. Its just a game meant to be for fun, not a game to get your blood pressure up.
On June 24 2011 10:30 arb wrote: From what it sounds all you do is just cheese them, then say "Hay man we should be practice buddies!!!'
Honestly, i dont know what youre trying to prove besides the fact that youre another cheesy Terran who messages someone after a game you've A) Cheesed and failed B) Cheesed and won B1) They GG'd B2)They left
and rubbing a win in by pretending you actually give a shit and wanna play practice games with them.
More or less your entire post and every post you made in this thread screams to me youre full of yourself and overall just another internet douchebag, pretending to be on some good manner crusade.
First off, I'd just like to say that you have written an excellent post, and judging by your post count, you're clearly an excellent poster. I've gotten a fair amount of negativity in response to what i thought was a fairly benign blog post, and having veterans criticize me has brought me to reevaluate the way I've written/done things.
Having thought about the way I phrased the OP, that's a reasonable interpretation of what I've said. I think now I know what the problem is: I've represented myself poorly. I have a sentence or two at the beginning of a long blog post about how I occasionally use allins and 1 base attacks in my play, and I feel no qualms about doing so. I would like to note that this is by no means the only way that I play, nor do said allins make up the majority of my play.
It just so happens that I message most of my opponents after games looking for practice partners. Sometimes, I succeed. I have the most difficulty after games in which my opponents are upset after playing. As it were, some of these games are games in which I did a very early cheese attack or a 1 base all-in. I thought I'd make a blog post about how I try to help improve people's attitudes in Starcraft 2, and the strategies I have found most effective for getting to know people after games in which they are upset. Sorry if there was any confusion about the motivations behind my blog post
Cool post man
You're a really great guy, I hope to meet you on ladder
We should practice sometime
I'm pleased that the usage of smiley faces and decent diction gives you some perverted sense of self-justified righteousness on the internet, because what you're saying is obviously complete and utter bullshit, so I'm glad you can ignore it
You're trolling, and posing a blog about how you like to troll people on battlenet
There isn't anything manner or right about PMing someone after a game and asking them to practice with you, it's just ridiculous and rage inducing
Not that you don't already know that, because that's what you're going for
Wait he's trolling?
This is something id expect to see on Yahoo answers.
Ok, so I feel the need to defend my rep here.
tl;dr: I'm a nice guy, not a troll or a douche.
long version:
I'd like to point out there's an alternative explanation for my post that's possible besides the presented possibilities, "youre full of yourself and overall just another internet douchebag" and "You're trolling, and posing a blog about how you like to troll people on battlenet " and that explanation is that I'm genuinely a nice dude, weird as it sounds. However, it seems the only people who are willing to consider that possibility are those with extremely low post counts who are either lurkers or uninvolved in the TL community, and those who think I'm either a Troll or a Douchebag are long-time members here who have been here a long time.
At this point, there's not much I can say to convince you guys that I genuinely like people, and don't want to mean to people on battle.net, that I haven't already said. In fact, I even posted a correction to my front page post admitting that I'd worded things poorly, and pointing out that I don't talk to people that I win against with an all-in, but ANYONE that I play when I'm looking for practice partners, especially people who beat me (since I'd rather practice against someone who's slightly better than me than someone who's slight worse).
I'm willing to concede that I worded my original blog post poorly, and that I come off the wrong way in it. I've got a big old quote at the top of it noting that in case anyone else stumbles across it. If you look at my other posts here on TL, you'll note that for the most part I post in the "simple questions, simple answers" thread with basic information, as well as responding to help strategy threads posted by people in bronze, silver and gold leagues (I wouldn't try to give advice to anyone better than that since I'm in Diamond league). I have a couple blog posts from earlier in the year when I was experimenting with tank play in TvP, as well as some cool movie posters I made, and some cosmetic edits to a few Terran Strategy articles in Liquipedia.
All in all, if you want to suppose that I *AM* a Troll, I'd be one who went through the long and involved process of helping edit Liquipedia, getting involved in the SC2 strategy community (heh, that might be a strike against me, given the quality of the average post pre-purge), setting up a stream and streaming content since the middle of last fall, purchasing lessons from Debo, and generally doing a brilliant job of molding myself into the shape of a semi-involved TL community member, all without resorting to trolling for ~7 months, writing several hundred posts and getting no bans or warnings in the process.
This sounds entirely implausible to me. You must concede that, unless I am the longest attention-spanned troll in the history of the internet, I am either a douche or a nice guy, and not counting some poor wording in the original post of one blog post, I have generally been a nice guy (though I might have badgered some people a little too hard in the sc2 strategy forum). So even if I am a douche, I am for the most part a nice guy.
I suppose I could produce evidence that I've met practice partners on battle.net after having played them on the ladder. Would that convince you?
The issue with your draw is that you're entering a domain that he just left. You achieved your victory fairly, but that doesn't mean the other person enjoyed it or equally shares your neutral point.
They feel cheated, they feel that a match that should last at least enough for them to attest their skill or compare their play with yours is being taken from them by someone who plays an underhanded move that either works or fails depending on the person's reigns or ability to properly scout, identify or note what you're doing.
To engage with them afterwards online without proper tone or form of approaching them as you would offline can be heavily misinterpreted and no matter how much you say in the most sincere way or form, it doesn't rectify for what they perceive to be mean-spirited or just utter bullshit.
The bottom-line? They felt you owed them a proper and respectful match, once that perception is shattered, no words could rectify the situation.
It's best to leave them be.
P.S: Arb, you're being a bit aggressive, no? Very antagonistic @_@
huh? I checked my recent history and don't see anyone of this name that I played.
Also, this thread has been dormant for over a month and you resurrect it? Why? I should be a Forum Cleric so I can cast Turn Unthread.
On August 03 2011 11:08 Torte de Lini wrote: The issue with your draw is that you're entering a domain that he just left. You achieved your victory fairly, but that doesn't mean the other person enjoyed it or equally shares your neutral point.
They feel cheated, they feel that a match that should last at least enough for them to attest their skill or compare their play with yours is being taken from them by someone who plays an underhanded move that either works or fails depending on the person's reigns or ability to properly scout, identify or note what you're doing.
To engage with them afterwards online without proper tone or form of approaching them as you would offline can be heavily misinterpreted and no matter how much you say in the most sincere way or form, it doesn't rectify for what they perceive to be mean-spirited or just utter bullshit.
The bottom-line? They felt you owed them a proper and respectful match, once that perception is shattered, no words could rectify the situation.
It's best to leave them be.
P.S: Arb, you're being a bit aggressive, no? Very antagonistic @_@
That's a fair point. Please consider the following, however:
I only message a small number of people who I beat, since I prefer practice partners who I think are better than me; most of my practice partners are people who beat me on ladder.
Of the people I message, some of them are upset following the game. Sometimes, since I'm a reasonable fellow and they actually chillax and we become friends.
The idea that I have poor tone or form may or may not be accurate, since tone is hard to convey in electronic written media. I do my best to have a respectful, friendly tone however.
Bottom line, in my opinion, is that the worst case scenario of approaching someone after a game is that they bm me and block me; it's no problem for me. Most of the time, they're not interested and not bm. Sometimes, they're interested and we become friends. This is the best outcome, and it is good.
On August 03 2011 11:08 Torte de Lini wrote: The issue with your draw is that you're entering a domain that he just left. You achieved your victory fairly, but that doesn't mean the other person enjoyed it or equally shares your neutral point.
They feel cheated, they feel that a match that should last at least enough for them to attest their skill or compare their play with yours is being taken from them by someone who plays an underhanded move that either works or fails depending on the person's reigns or ability to properly scout, identify or note what you're doing.
To engage with them afterwards online without proper tone or form of approaching them as you would offline can be heavily misinterpreted and no matter how much you say in the most sincere way or form, it doesn't rectify for what they perceive to be mean-spirited or just utter bullshit.
The bottom-line? They felt you owed them a proper and respectful match, once that perception is shattered, no words could rectify the situation.
It's best to leave them be.
P.S: Arb, you're being a bit aggressive, no? Very antagonistic @_@
That's a fair point. Please consider the following, however:
I only message a small number of people who I beat, since I prefer practice partners who I think are better than me; most of my practice partners are people who beat me on ladder.
Of the people I message, some of them are upset following the game. Sometimes, since I'm a reasonable fellow and they actually chillax and we become friends.
The idea that I have poor tone or form may or may not be accurate, since tone is hard to convey in electronic written media. I do my best to have a respectful, friendly tone however.
Bottom line, in my opinion, is that the worst case scenario of approaching someone after a game is that they bm me and block me; it's no problem for me. Most of the time, they're not interested and not bm. Sometimes, they're interested and we become friends. This is the best outcome, and it is good.
There are plenty of level-minded people who you can contact to practice with. TL accommodates with both a topic and a IRC channel. There is also Obs. custom maps and other places.
Better yet, why contact them immediately when you can contact them at another point in time where the sting of the match isn't so fresh. Most people won't want to practice with you after matching you on ladder because they don't regard you as worthwhile since you are cheesing. Consider from their point of view of what they gain playing someone they already beat or resort to tactics they demean.
Tone is hard to convey especially when the person is looking to lash out or just wants to be left alone to mediate their issues and problems. If you sucker-punch me and then ask me to train with you at the boxing ring, you think I'd be inclined to agree?
I'm not denying that you might make more friends or find people to be rather docile despite your ploys or "cheapened" strategies, but imagine what kind of person you're portraying yourself to be, especially in a blog that is intended to be about yourself and to be talked about yourself. Is there a misinterpretation of your intentions? You bet, but do you blame them?
Bottom line being, why contact the very person who sees you in such a poor light when there are an abundant amount of people right up your alley to spar with
Better yet, why contact them immediately when you can contact them at another point in time where the sting of the match isn't so fresh. Most people won't want to practice with you after matching you on ladder because they don't regard you as worthwhile since you are cheesing. Consider from their point of view of what they gain playing someone they already beat or resort to tactics they demean.
Tone is hard to convey especially when the person is looking to lash out or just wants to be left alone to mediate their issues and problems. If you sucker-punch me and then ask me to train with you at the boxing ring, you think I'd be inclined to agree?
I'm not denying that you might make more friends or find people to be rather docile despite your ploys or "cheapened" strategies, but imagine what kind of person you're portraying yourself to be, especially in a blog that is intended to be about yourself and to be talked about yourself. Is there a misinterpretation of your intentions? You bet, but do you blame them?
Bottom line being, why contact the very person who sees you in such a poor light when there are an abundant amount of people right up your alley to spar with
That's a fair point; it might be more effective and I could have better retention rates if I didn't contact my opponents right away. I'll include a delay in the future, especially when people BM me before leaving the game. Thanks for the advice.
I'd also like to note that I don't cheese in all games, or even in a majority of games-- and certainly not in a majority of games that I win, since most people are quite capable of holding off cheese. However, when I DO all-in for whatever strategic reason (1 gate FE, or hatch first close positions, or what have you) sometimes people are upset, and these people make up a subset of the people I interact with post-match in recruiting practice partners. This thread concerns my dealing with them, and how being good-mannered often reaches those who perceive the internet to be full of trolls and mean people.
I also make use of the TL IRC and the practice partners thread, but I like to draw my opponents from a variety of sources.
You don't to validate yourself with me. I accept everyone and anyone so long as I'm equally accepted. I'm like Jesus except I don't defy biological forms of reproduction, rely on my father's stature to get into the sweet eternal land of Heaven and make poor jokes perhaps insulting the very religion I was raised to follow.
EPT
I don't mean to be mean. I also chat with people who beat me, am I only allowed to chat with players who beat me? 
![[image loading]](http://snoop.burghcom.com/~brigand/bm/bm0074.png)
