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At least i learned a few things:
1. Units in BW are stupid - very, very stupid.
2. Moving two tanks through a choke by simply telling them to is impossible.
3. SCVs are actually extremely fast.
4. Macro is hard.
5. Zealots are OP
1. The unit AI in BW is an important element in seperating good from bad players.
2. If you tell 100 tanks to go down a ramp or through a choke, they will do so eventually. It is up to your control how fast this is gonna happen.
3. Dragoons are still faster, so whatever. 
4. The more stuff going on in the game the harder macroing is. However, at some point macroing will feel so natural to you that you barely notice yourself doing. This depends on your brain having some kind of automated counter going in your head that makes your macro timing just right. Before you get there it's a good idea to use 'tabbing': basically having one or more facts/barracks on hotkeys and and just constantly check when the units are about to complete.
Another thing that makes macroing hard especially to new players is that they will much rather watch and control the army, thus forgetting the production. Balancing the microing and macroing takes time.
However, no matter how much you practice, you'll never be able to this to perfection.
5. Terran is in my opinion the most fragile race. If your mine/vulture/tank positioning is off, you can lose the game so fast. However, I also feel like if you really master the terran race you are most likely to beat someone worse than you.
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Nice that you're interested in BW, try playing tvz and micro your marines vs lurkers. Its sooo fun when you spread perfectly and pick off every single lurker, but one misclick and all your marines die. Or in TvP, dragoons melting to siege tank fire is one of the most satisfying sounds of all time, I would make it my message tone if I could.
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On May 30 2011 22:27 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 22:11 Djagulingu wrote:On May 30 2011 21:16 Morfildur wrote:
i'm a Diamond player in SC2 You should have no problem making into D+ at iccup. I'm a silver zerg in sc2 and D+ in iccup. On May 30 2011 21:30 Nazza wrote:
I'm sorry. I just started cracking up when you picked I read the words "I picked Terran". ROFL. Most SC2 -> BW switchs choose Terran as main race and they eventually learn what's up here. SC1 Terran is a real challenge in terms of mechanics. I chose Terrans because i think they allow me to focus more on practicing macro since the strong defense (siege tanks/bunkers) keep me safe in the early game. I don't think i'll play iCCup before i can reliably beat the AI. I know i could do that single-handedly 10 years ago, now i can't even do that and human players should be far superior, so i'll have to practice. I also have no idea about unit compositions, strategies, etc. apart from what liquipedia offers. However, it's a moot point anyways as i will be too frustrated from units blocking each other long before i get the practice i would need :p I don't know how anyone can like stupid units... i don't even want to imagine a marine/medic ball in SC1 stimming up a choke, it must be total chaos. No wonder 2 Lurkers are supposed to be a perfect defense against infinity (non-boxeresque) marines :p
Well thats why you don't attack up a ramp, you do this in sc2?
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On May 30 2011 23:32 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 22:11 Djagulingu wrote:On May 30 2011 21:16 Morfildur wrote:
i'm a Diamond player in SC2 You should have no problem making into D+ at iccup. I'm a silver zerg in sc2 and D+ in iccup Haha what? How is this even possible? D+ compares to like Master league or at least high Diamond. But Silver? That is just wrong.
Choosing protoss and DT dropping doesn't really count as D+.
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On May 31 2011 00:15 AoN.DimSum wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 22:27 Morfildur wrote:On May 30 2011 22:11 Djagulingu wrote:On May 30 2011 21:16 Morfildur wrote:
i'm a Diamond player in SC2 You should have no problem making into D+ at iccup. I'm a silver zerg in sc2 and D+ in iccup. On May 30 2011 21:30 Nazza wrote:
I'm sorry. I just started cracking up when you picked I read the words "I picked Terran". ROFL. Most SC2 -> BW switchs choose Terran as main race and they eventually learn what's up here. SC1 Terran is a real challenge in terms of mechanics. I chose Terrans because i think they allow me to focus more on practicing macro since the strong defense (siege tanks/bunkers) keep me safe in the early game. I don't think i'll play iCCup before i can reliably beat the AI. I know i could do that single-handedly 10 years ago, now i can't even do that and human players should be far superior, so i'll have to practice. I also have no idea about unit compositions, strategies, etc. apart from what liquipedia offers. However, it's a moot point anyways as i will be too frustrated from units blocking each other long before i get the practice i would need :p I don't know how anyone can like stupid units... i don't even want to imagine a marine/medic ball in SC1 stimming up a choke, it must be total chaos. No wonder 2 Lurkers are supposed to be a perfect defense against infinity (non-boxeresque) marines :p Well thats why you don't attack up a ramp, you do this in sc2?
rofl <3
OP welcome to BW, where unlike SC2, you actually have to do something instead of letting the game do everything for you.
It will be hard but you will have fun.
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I love it when SC2 people try BW and complain about how difficult the game is and blame it on the "shortcomings" of the game and not have balls enough to admit that they had mistakes.
Oh well, I guess that's what happens if you don't spoon feed gamers with what they need.
Try harder next time, or just go back to SC2.
User was warned for this post
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On May 30 2011 23:33 intrigue wrote:haha it's pretty funny finally seeing sc2 to bw rank translation predictions. honestly though i'd say even masters level sc2 players without experience will require months of work to hit D+, especially if they don't pick protoss.
Iccup from D>D+ is actually quite easy nowadays, theres a LOT of bad SC2 players that try it out and just feed wins. From about C onward its much more difficult since you can't relaly find any games.
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On May 31 2011 00:26 SilverSkyLark wrote:
I love it when SC2 people try BW and complain about how difficult the game is and blame it on the "shortcomings" of the game and not have balls enough to admit that they had mistakes.
Oh well, I guess that's what happens if you don't spoon feed gamers with what they need.
Try harder next time, or just go back to SC2.
Uh why so hostile? He isn't saying he's a good player but the game is bad. The limited UI of SC does make it more difficult, and increases the likelihood of making mistakes.
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On May 31 2011 00:32 Zlasher wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 23:33 intrigue wrote:On May 30 2011 21:16 Morfildur wrote:
i'm a Diamond player in SC2 haha it's pretty funny finally seeing sc2 to bw rank translation predictions. honestly though i'd say even masters level sc2 players without experience will require months of work to hit D+, especially if they don't pick protoss. Iccup from D>D+ is actually quite easy nowadays, theres a LOT of bad SC2 players that try it out and just feed wins. From about C onward its much more difficult since you can't relaly find any games.
Depends.
There are times where its easy to go up through the levels, but sometimes its harder when lots of C+/B smurf or when they play against each other at D+ level. If you go against one of them, you get crushed.
(And those bad SC2 players ain't that bad in the game either, considering they went from SC2 -> BW. Sure they might be feeding wins, but most of them stay in the D- level if its their first time around)
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On May 31 2011 00:33 getSome[703] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2011 00:26 SilverSkyLark wrote:
I love it when SC2 people try BW and complain about how difficult the game is and blame it on the "shortcomings" of the game and not have balls enough to admit that they had mistakes.
Oh well, I guess that's what happens if you don't spoon feed gamers with what they need.
Try harder next time, or just go back to SC2. Uh why so hostile? He isn't saying he's a good player but the game is bad. The limited UI of SC does make it more difficult, and increases the likelihood of making mistakes.
No reason at all.
Well, the limited UI of SC is what makes it great. :>
Try making it to C+ in iCCup, then go back to SC2.
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On May 31 2011 00:33 getSome[703] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2011 00:26 SilverSkyLark wrote:
I love it when SC2 people try BW and complain about how difficult the game is and blame it on the "shortcomings" of the game and not have balls enough to admit that they had mistakes.
Oh well, I guess that's what happens if you don't spoon feed gamers with what they need.
Try harder next time, or just go back to SC2. Uh why so hostile? He isn't saying he's a good player but the game is bad. The limited UI of SC does make it more difficult, and increases the likelihood of making mistakes.
He's deducing from the fact he's bad at the game (which he does not seem to have grasped completely) the fact that a game is bad. A bit like someone who would try chess for the first time, gets trashed by his opponent because he is clueless, and then would say "yeah, this game is stupid".
Remember the good old strategy thread where every OP was like "I'm really bad, but could you please help..." and sometimes the guy was B-... Such different attitudes.
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On May 31 2011 00:46 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2011 00:33 getSome[703] wrote:On May 31 2011 00:26 SilverSkyLark wrote:
I love it when SC2 people try BW and complain about how difficult the game is and blame it on the "shortcomings" of the game and not have balls enough to admit that they had mistakes.
Oh well, I guess that's what happens if you don't spoon feed gamers with what they need.
Try harder next time, or just go back to SC2. Uh why so hostile? He isn't saying he's a good player but the game is bad. The limited UI of SC does make it more difficult, and increases the likelihood of making mistakes. He's deducing from the fact he's bad at the game (which he does not seem to have grasped completely) the fact that a game is bad. A bit like someone who would try chess for the first time, gets trashed by his opponent because he is clueless, and then would say "yeah, this game is stupid". Remember the good old strategy thread where every OP was like "I'm really bad, but could you please help..." and sometimes the guy was B-... Such different attitudes.
Uhm, where did i say the game is bad?
I find the unit AI annoying, which is not too suprising as even players who played BW for ages admit that it could need some improvement (Best example are Dragoons about which every BW player jokes). Of course it can be compensated by better mechanics, microing, etc., which some people like, others don't.
PS: Just so you read it in plaintext: I'm bad at BW, if not to say "totally horrible".
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You should practice sim city on bw (having the unit prodution up near the ramp and the supply in the back of your base etc etc) it should save you up some time on you units getting to the rally point, also one other method of defending vs zealot rush is walling in with rax and two supplies.
/f a (BananaTerran) up on iccup if you want.
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If you think Dragoons are bad, you should see the Reaver. :>
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On May 31 2011 00:57 SilverSkyLark wrote:
If you think Dragoons are bad, you should see the Reaver. :>
I have the reaver in fond memory from loooooooong ago... it was so annoying if the scarab blew up in mid-air or even close to the opponents units without ever doing any damage.
For some reason when i think back i remember moving big armies across the map without problems, though maybe at that time i just had a lot more patience (or practice :p)
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Zurich15358 Posts
On May 31 2011 00:32 Zlasher wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 23:33 intrigue wrote:On May 30 2011 21:16 Morfildur wrote:
i'm a Diamond player in SC2 haha it's pretty funny finally seeing sc2 to bw rank translation predictions. honestly though i'd say even masters level sc2 players without experience will require months of work to hit D+, especially if they don't pick protoss. Iccup from D>D+ is actually quite easy nowadays, theres a LOT of bad SC2 players that try it out and just feed wins. From about C onward its much more difficult since you can't relaly find any games.
Huh. My experience has been the opposite. All the fish left for SC2 and the remaining D-range was better than before.
Also getting to D+ was always easy, but keeping 50%+ on D+ is what I am talking about.
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being a bw player, i found little difficult when i was playing sc2
the only thing that i had to learn is about the knowledge of the game, like the units, the maps, etc
but still, in a week or two i was able to hit high diamond(at that time diamond was the highest rank)
certainly i admit there are some very gosu sc2 players whom i played several times and i still lost, but i think sc2 at this stage is still a bit easier than bw.(auto mining, reminder of idle workers, 12-unit group, hotkey all buildings, etc)
sc2 is a user friendly game.
the only thing i didnt get used to is the lack of f key, which is important to decent macro.
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On May 31 2011 00:32 Zlasher wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 23:33 intrigue wrote:On May 30 2011 21:16 Morfildur wrote:
i'm a Diamond player in SC2 haha it's pretty funny finally seeing sc2 to bw rank translation predictions. honestly though i'd say even masters level sc2 players without experience will require months of work to hit D+, especially if they don't pick protoss. Iccup from D>D+ is actually quite easy nowadays, theres a LOT of bad SC2 players that try it out and just feed wins. From about C onward its much more difficult since you can't relaly find any games.
Really it dependsw so mucuh on the race.. with protoss its straightforward because of the macro and also strong cheese builds , aka go proxy gates, dts, etc strong stuff and not too hard to micro.
but with terran its brutal at low level, so hard to get up rank. a lot of time it feels you out micro ur opponent and still get beaten
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On May 31 2011 00:16 kNyTTyM wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 23:32 zatic wrote:On May 30 2011 22:11 Djagulingu wrote:On May 30 2011 21:16 Morfildur wrote:
i'm a Diamond player in SC2 You should have no problem making into D+ at iccup. I'm a silver zerg in sc2 and D+ in iccup Haha what? How is this even possible? D+ compares to like Master league or at least high Diamond. But Silver? That is just wrong. Choosing protoss and DT dropping doesn't really count as D+.
FYI: I play zerg. D rank has some good players and some guys that are total noob shits. I'm a noob shit and I don't deny it. I even blogged about being D+ so you can read the battle report and see how I got to D+.
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On May 30 2011 22:27 Morfildur wrote:
I don't think i'll play iCCup before i can reliably beat the AI. I know i could do that single-handedly 10 years ago, now i can't even do that and human players should be far superior, so i'll have to practice. I also have no idea about unit compositions, strategies, etc. apart from what liquipedia offers.
However, it's a moot point anyways as i will be too frustrated from units blocking each other long before i get the practice i would need :p
I don't know how anyone can like stupid units... i don't even want to imagine a marine/medic ball in SC1 stimming up a choke, it must be total chaos. No wonder 2 Lurkers are supposed to be a perfect defense against infinity (non-boxeresque) marines :p
Beating BW AI can be tricky if you don't know what to expect. That being said, there is usually an early rush of mm/lings/zealots. I always found it more difficult to kill off the zealot rush because of how resilient they are in the early game (I play zerg and they tear lings apart). Once you got the pattern down and a solid build order you'll wonder why you ever lost in the first place. Thanks for sharing this with us
I'd highly recommend jumping on iccup and give it your best shot. Practicing build orders against AI is ok, but you need to balance it out with some human contact so you have a better idea of what to expect.
If you really MUST mass games against the computer send an early worker to their mineral line. They will pull almost all their workers to attack you. This way you can practice builds and scouting micro!
For the sake of the discussion: I started laddering May 2009 and stopped July 2010. I got to D+ about this time last year. I stopped July 2010 due to school and work, NOT SC2. Though, I've played about 65 ladder games and sat low in gold before the ladder reset (haven't played since February). I was under the impression my BW experience would get me to diamond without breaking a sweat, and maybe it would have if I didn't stick with zerg. I don't mean to complain because I have way more fun with them than the other races, even if it's REALLY frustrating!
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