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Haters Gonna Hate
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Drizzt3
United States189 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
I personally despise people who hate and judge before something comes out. My policy was always: Wait and see. Don't worry, stop bitching, stop whining about something you cannot control or don't understand as well or know all about, just wait and see wait and see Seriously, be patient, wait and see how it turns out and then make your fucking complaints. Does everyone complain about the food they order at a restaurant before it has even arrived? Geez... Agree with you, a lot of complainers here but I think it's because 1. we focus on them more than positive posts and 2. those who are satisfied don't generally say much. | ||
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Vequeth
United Kingdom1116 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On March 01 2011 05:43 Vequeth wrote: Im glad you are here to complain about the complaining. What a cop-out. Everyone uses this line as if it's meant to portray an irony or wit that isn't already evident. Hey, thanks for pointing out the obviousness that deters the point of the topic :3 Let's see if I can break your logic: He's criticizing the complainers? So in reality, he's criticizing the critics and that's a commonality in the actual world. Hm, yes sir, it seems I have swept your argument under the rug. Point being, if people can complain about generally good things or just events in general before they've even occurred, I'm sure the complainers of those complainers can complain about the complaints that have already occurred. Cheers. | ||
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lurked
Canada918 Posts
Stop being spoiled brats, and try to have enlightening discussions instead of nerdbashing every single change and every single non-change. Thanks. | ||
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MaxField
United States2386 Posts
On March 01 2011 05:45 Torte de Lini wrote: What a cop-out. Everyone uses this line as if it's meant to portray an irony or wit that isn't already evident. Hey, thanks for pointing out the obviousness that deters the point of the topic :3 Let's see if I can break your logic: He's criticizing the complainers? So in reality, he's criticizing the critics and that's a commonality in the actual world. Hm, yes sir, it seems I have swept your argument under the rug. Point being, if people can complain about generally good things or just events in general before they've even occurred, I'm sure the complainers of those complainers can complain about the complaints that have already occurred. Cheers. Man don't even worry about him, haters are gonna hate. But i agree, i really have gotten sick of the non-stop whinning in the SC2 thread. I can't read them that much anymore. I just want TSL to get here so people will be distracted from all the stupid stuff. | ||
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Enervate
United States1769 Posts
Seriously guys, stop talking so much shit. + Show Spoiler + Is that you Huk? For the most part I agree, but it's not like you can force people not to complain. Just ignore it. I doubt this post or consequent posts will allow people to see the error of their ways. | ||
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limonovich
England226 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On March 01 2011 05:48 Enervate wrote: + Show Spoiler + Is that you Huk? For the most part I agree, but it's not like you can force people not to complain. Just ignore it. I doubt this post or consequent posts will allow people to see the error of their ways. Haha, great spoiler. HuK had a point though, the execution was a mix between LOL and erm... | ||
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Vequeth
United Kingdom1116 Posts
On March 01 2011 05:45 Torte de Lini wrote: What a cop-out. Everyone uses this line as if it's meant to portray an irony or wit that isn't already evident. Hey, thanks for pointing out the obviousness that deters the point of the topic :3 Let's see if I can break your logic: He's criticizing the complainers? So in reality, he's criticizing the critics and that's a commonality in the actual world. Hm, yes sir, it seems I have swept your argument under the rug. Point being, if people can complain about generally good things or just events in general before they've even occurred, I'm sure the complainers of those complainers can complain about the complaints that have already occurred. Cheers. You read into that waaaaay too much, my point being he brought nothing new to this table. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On March 01 2011 05:53 Vequeth wrote: You read into that waaaaay too much, my point being he brought nothing new to this table. What would you suggest he bring in about a blog that revolves around himself. | ||
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drag_
England425 Posts
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aike
United States1629 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On March 01 2011 05:58 aike wrote: So instead of complaining people are supposed to just sit back and hope things get better? Makes no sense. If nobody complained then nothing would ever get better. A company or person doesn't know that they are doing something wrong if nobody speaks up about it. I'm getting ground-breaking news that constructive criticism and open-mindedness is more contributory than whining. We'll have more at 11 as well as the controversial topic: Is whining the same as constructive criticism: we have our experts Dr. Duh, Dr. Lipschitz & Mrs. Derp with us tonight. Stay Tuned! | ||
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Drizzt3
United States189 Posts
 . I know I may not be adding anything necessarily new to the table here, but it's still worthy of a blog post, at least judging by the standards of certain other blog posts I've seen haha no offense | ||
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Cryogenic
Canada75 Posts
The SC2 boards are getting harder to read because of the constant, baseless complaining. It was Darwin who stated that "it is not only the strongest who will survive but also those who are the most adaptable". Let them complain and boycott the ladder. They won't be the last ones standing. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32051 Posts
How do you get a company to change something without bitching or going the route of an ultimatium (I will not buy whatever, I will not watch GSL, etc) ??? sure there was a ton of morons and bigots in that thread, but the compaints were hardly small or unmerited | ||
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Roe
Canada6002 Posts
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aike
United States1629 Posts
On March 01 2011 05:59 Torte de Lini wrote: I'm getting ground-breaking news that constructive criticism and open-mindedness is more contributory than whining. We'll have more at 11 as well as the controversial topic: Is whining the same as constructive criticism: we have our experts Dr. Duh, Dr. Lipschitz & Mrs. Derp with us tonight. Stay Tuned! How can I say "get a better accent" in a constructive way exactly? No matter how I say Kelly's accent is bad, or the maps are imbalanced or whatever, people will take it as me bitching. There's no way to say it in a constructive way without people thinking you are just whining. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On March 01 2011 06:27 aike wrote: How can I say "get a better accent" in a constructive way exactly? No matter how I say Kelly's accent is bad, or the maps are imbalanced or whatever, people will take it as me bitching. There's no way to say it in a constructive way without people thinking you are just whining. Do you even understand how "get a better accent" isn't remotely possible? Start with suggesting something logically possible. | ||
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Rotodyne
United States2263 Posts
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aike
United States1629 Posts
On March 01 2011 06:31 Torte de Lini wrote: Do you even understand how "get a better accent" isn't remotely possible? Start with suggesting something logically possible. That's my point though, Kelly CAN'T get a better accent, so the only logical thing for Gom to do is get rid of her. And if I say that Gom should get rid of Kelly, people will just say "Stop complaining you whiner, post something constructive" Stop talking down to people Torte de Lini, show some courtesy and respect to other forum goers. Also, follow your own advice. | ||
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iamho
United States3347 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32051 Posts
On March 01 2011 06:31 Torte de Lini wrote: Do you even understand how "get a better accent" isn't remotely possible? Start with suggesting something logically possible. not even true at all. Mel Gibson and Christian Bale have very thick, distinct accents that they've learn to hide when they speak but even if such remedy weren't possible, complaining about something in such a huge way is what sends a message to a company. Sitting silently on your gripes doesnt do shit. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On March 01 2011 06:48 aike wrote: That's my point though, Kelly CAN'T get a better accent, so the only logical thing for Gom to do is get rid of her. And if I say that Gom should get rid of Kelly, people will just say "Stop complaining you whiner, post something constructive" Stop talking down to people Torte de Lini, show some courtesy and respect to other forum goers. Also, follow your own advice. I'm not talking down to you. I'm showcasing your lack of open-mindedness. What lack? The one where you say Gom should get rid of her which doesn't really help her at all, it just helps you and your inability to actually consider other possibilities. She may be a deal-breaker for some, but not for all and with improvement, for less people. She can't get a new accent, but that isn't her problem. That's just your inability to think of other aspects of her voice and words. Her accent is huge, but what you don't understand is her pronunciation. You can't fix an accent, but you can have one improve their articulation and pronunciation of certain words. Let me give you constructive criticism: "Hey Kelly, I saw your recent cast with TotalBiscuit and although I haven't seen you cast in the GSL, I feel that I am having trouble understanding you due to our differences in pronunciation and articulation. Could you please work on this because although I don't have yet to see you cast, I feel this may be an issue in the future and would be detrimental to your career as more english-speakers tune in to your cast. If you need help or are unsure of how to pronounce certain words because I know English is your second language, please let me know and I'd be glad to help." Let's do a comparison: "Kelly, I don't understand anything you say, please speak properly or get a better accent" "Dear Kelly, I am having trouble understanding you due to pronunciation issues and articulation. Is this something you'll be working on in the future? I feel it's the only thing holding you back despite largely improving recently" derp, the only person lacking courtesy are those who complain before giving people a chance to try and improve. Heed your preaching, priest McCoy, and then come back to me and tell me I talk down to others. When I talk down to others, I'll be sure for them to know they are being demeaned and degraded with a comparison of Fran Drescher. If you think pronunciation, articulation and accents are all interrelated and thus cannot change without the other two, I suggest you start learning french, so we can relate on how wrong you are and how an accent doesn't prohibit improvement. _______________________________________ Let's have some fun! Right now, you're complaining about there being no possible way to criticize Kelly Milkies. Here's me and my whine about you: Can you ever stop whining? If you don't like her, mute the sound and stop bitching. That's great and all, but it doesn't solve your problem and probably won't stop your incessant whining. What can I say that is constructive? 1. Consider your point valid, yes she is quite difficult to understand. 2. Tell you how you can improve or help you identify how to properly criticize someone. 3. Pat you on the back 4. Use these enumerations to help prove my point. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On March 01 2011 06:53 Hawk wrote: not even true at all. Mel Gibson and Christian Bale have very thick, distinct accents that they've learn to hide when they speak but even if such remedy weren't possible, complaining about something in such a huge way is what sends a message to a company. Sitting silently on your gripes doesnt do shit. My main point is this: If you're going to complain, complain when it's happened. Do you think a company will take you seriously and your criticisms seriously over a product before it even has been tested in the water? I very highly doubt it. By all means complain, bitch, groan and moan to the extent of your deep and bruised feelings. But at least do it when it's happened. Whenever I see people complain, I feel like it's Christmas in Upstate New York where everyone complains about the presents they get or that xyz vacation is going to suck before they even do it. It's like everyone's a kid who hates sushi or onions before even trying them. You won't know you don't like it until you try it and although KellyMilkies is the exception to these analogies, the NASL is getting a lot of flack for not even doing anything yet You want to see a difference between bitching and proper constructive criticism? Take a look at the NASL topics then go to Liquid Tyler's blog. | ||
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Al Bundy
7257 Posts
Once again, another TL user is failing due to lack of common sense. For the love of ESPORTS people need to stop generalizing like that. Among the flood of hate & troll posts there are people who complain for VALID reasons. I'm not saying mods should delete bad quality and flame posts, or give more warnings, I'm just saying that your OP is riddled with ignorance and oversights. And FYI "haters gonna hate" is one of the most absurd and shortsighted statements EVER. Do yourself a favor, stop using it. edit; and I'm going to finish on a positive tone: when browsing TL forums, just try to read the threads with an open mind and objective point of view. The post you cited (IMBALANCED show) is a really bad example in that regard. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On March 01 2011 07:10 AlBundy wrote: 0/5 Once again, another TL user is failing due to lack of common sense. For the love of ESPORTS people need to stop generalizing like that. Among the flood of hate & troll posts there are people who complain for VALID reasons. I'm not saying mods should delete bad quality and flame posts, or give more warnings, I'm just saying that your OP is riddled with ignorance and oversights. And FYI "haters gonna hate" is one of the most absurd and shortsighted statements EVER. Do yourself a favor, stop using it. I'll be fair and consider this a potential valid statement. It's just a vicious circle and there's just no way to prevent all of this without censorship. And even the patch of censorship is a problematic solution. | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
On March 01 2011 05:34 Drizzt3 wrote: As many people have already pointed out, there are sooo many complaints about the maps, kelly, balance, etc. You name it, a bunch of teamliquiders probably raged about it. Seriously guys, stop talking so much shit. I'm not saying you have to be super positive about everything, but there is a major difference between legitimately disucussing a topic or person in an open minded fashion and just talking shit about it. Take Artosis and Idra's show "IMBALANCED" for example. If you've ever watched an episode, you know that the two calmly discuss every aspect of different balance scenarios, and very rarely actually label something imbalanced. That is a VASTLY different approach than if they were to simply complain about Blizzard and zerg being weak and the maps sucking, without really considering any other points of view or any facts that don't support your complaints.+ Show Spoiler + preach what you pray provide examples of these posts that anger you so much | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32051 Posts
and the post atop that, jeez. That sounds like my terrible college writing teacher, who'd only allow you critique someone if you buttress your negative comment with two positive ones, even if the essay or story is question was fucking terrible (which it often is in college). All the coddling doesn't improve anyone, it just makes you overlook faults. It's the same kind of logic that now demands that we give trophies to everyone in youth sports instead of the top teams because people's feelings get hurt. As a result, these people often grow up to be unreceptive to criticism and then pretty much cry when someone tells them they're not as good as they think they are. Constructive criticism means explaining why a person is wrong, not making them feel ok about being wrong. Saying that she's a bad caster because she's impossible to understand is no different than saying a particular author sucks because he or she is terrible at writing and can't spell. | ||
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sharky246
1197 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On March 01 2011 07:22 Hawk wrote: Her product is all over the internet. It's not people complaining over something they haven't seen yet?? and the post atop that, jeez. That sounds like my terrible college writing teacher, who'd only allow you critique someone if you buttress your negative comment with two positive ones, even if the essay or story is question was fucking terrible (which it often is in college). All the coddling doesn't improve anyone, it just makes you overlook faults. It's the same kind of logic that now demands that we give trophies to everyone in youth sports instead of the top teams because people's feelings get hurt. As a result, these people often grow up to be unreceptive to criticism and then pretty much cry when someone tells them they're not as good as they think they are. Constructive criticism means explaining why a person is wrong, not making them feel ok about being wrong. Saying that she's a bad caster because she's impossible to understand is no different than saying a particular author sucks because he or she is terrible at writing and can't spell. There's a world difference between: I don't understand you, can you improve XYZ and I don't understand, please step down, leave or I hope GOM puts you away. There's no coddling, it's acknowledging what is there and not omitting what's possible. A merit, whether verbal or materialistic, is a merit. I think everyone deserves a merit for their efforts and dedication which promotes healthy competition, not just the end-result. I believe in paths, you believe in the end-result, I don't think we'll be seeing eye-to-eye on much. If you don't tell her specifically why she is difficult to understand, she'll never try to make it understandable. If you just want her out, well there's no pleasing you anyways and she might as well try for those who don't see in black and white. On March 01 2011 07:29 frodoguy wrote: Kellymilkies is being harshly treated because the bottom line is that there is someone better qualified to do the job. Constructive criticism doesn't matter in this case. I mean sure she can improve on her English, but she should have already been good enough at it for people to completely understand from the beginning. It's confusing and frustrating how she lacks something vital to being a commentator and she ended up with the job. You can argue that she's funny and knowledgeable but that isn't a good reason to just turn a blind eye on her bad English skills. Won't deny that there are better people, but that choice is out of our hands. Criticizing after she has dipped her feet in the Gom water is entirely valid and I have no qualms. _______________________ This is all I'm going to say on this subject. I felt I've said everything I felt was fair, valid and needed and if you disagree, reread my posts to ensure that you're disagreeing on the entirety of my stance and not just a specific comparison or analogy. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32051 Posts
She doesn't need to be casting for GOm for someone to realize that. I also don't understand what else is possibly needed more than 'I can't understand a word she says' What is so cryptic about that statement? | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On March 01 2011 07:44 Hawk wrote: I don't get your hang up on halting criticism until she's casted for Gom a whole bunch. The loads of casts she already has out there for a variety of games don't mean anything?? We're talking about her inability to speak english in an understandable manner, not her game knowledge (though that's been brought up but personally I dont know enough to make that claim) She doesn't need to be casting for GOm for someone to realize that. I also don't understand what else is possibly needed more than 'I can't understand a word she says' What is so cryptic about that statement? It's like everyone's a kid who hates sushi or onions before even trying them. You won't know you don't like it until you try it and although KellyMilkies is the exception to these analogies, the NASL is getting a lot of flack for not even doing anything yet Told you to read everything that I wrote before disagreeing. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32051 Posts
This would be like me saying I hate sushi, having tried it multiple times before, and you keep on trying to convince me because you know this one good spot. Motherfucker, I don't like sushi! If you're saying her previous casts don't matter... what exactly is different about these?? | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On March 01 2011 07:59 Hawk wrote: I did. You are aware that she has casted before this, right?? "Hey Kelly, I saw your recent cast with TotalBiscuit and although I haven't seen you cast in the GSL, I feel that I am having trouble understanding you due to our differences in pronunciation and articulation. Could you please work on this because although I don't have yet to see you cast, I feel this may be an issue in the future and would be detrimental to your career as more english-speakers tune in to your cast." Told you to read everything that I wrote before disagreeing. This would be like me saying I hate sushi, having tried it multiple times before, and you keep on trying to convince me because you know this one good spot. Motherfucker, I don't like sushi! [...] and although KellyMilkies is the exception to these analogies [...] | ||
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Drizzt3
United States189 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32051 Posts
Why is it that we have to wait until she casts at GSL to make a determination on whether or not she is a good caster? She has a large body of recent work casting a ton of stuff. How the hell can you dismiss several hours of her casting and act like it isn't relevant in a discussion about her casting abilities? | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On March 01 2011 08:43 Hawk wrote: again, I did and you've still not answered my question. Why is it that we have to wait until she casts at GSL to make a determination on whether or not she is a good caster? She has a large body of recent work casting a ton of stuff. How the hell can you dismiss several hours of her casting and act like it isn't relevant in a discussion about her casting abilities? This is fair, I did not answer this directly and to be honest, despite me saying that I have said all that I wanted to say, to ignore you would be rude when you bring up a valid point. I feel that using her previous casts is a valid supportive way to direct your judgments. I never said to ignore all previous forms of evidence, but I see how it could have been implied. No one has a problem with her casting, they all have a problem with her casting the GSL. No one's complained about her as much as now only because she is casting the GSL now and in a sense we are all obligated to listen her. Her casting is terrible, but she was casting many things before and I've never seen an uprising as much as she has one, indicating that the general masses is fine with her so long as she goes away and doesn't interrupt something they paid for. Is this a fair evaluation? I won't deny that there are way better candidates to cast GSL than her, in fact, I agree and wanted Wolf in there. But I will deny that this is grounds to remove her or give her little chance to improve or adhere to constructive criticism (see above for a comparison). Say what you want to see in a manner that is clear and constructive (that would help her). See if she improves. If she doesn't, then alternatives should be evaluated. No harm in that and I support it. As I said, KellyMilkies is an exception to my point which was to stop bitching and constructively criticize someone and 2. To do it when it has occurred. There was time between her first time casting and the announcement she was going to cast. It may have been insufficient, but nonetheless, better than none especially when it looked like Gom wasn't going to change their mind. | ||
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ThePurist
Canada686 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On March 01 2011 09:46 ThePurist wrote: Torte de Lini you work in human resources or something? If not you should lol ^^; Haha, I should. But when you're online and you have the time in the world to respond. It's easy as hell to stop, calm down, backspace all your profanity and insults and think about what you're saying. When you're on the phone and I'm sure many can say that Human Resources is a bitch of a job of thanklessness, you need more restraint than Hugh Law in a typical romantic movie ): | ||
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