It is undeniable that there is a large fervor over my latest poor decisions. I have apologized but they have been speculated to be sarcastic or paired with snide remarks. If that is true then allow me now to make what I had intended to say very clear: I was wrong. I am sorry. There are no excuses. Mocking Kelly as I did was mean and inappropriate. Restreaming gsl was illegal and wrong. Especially given my public prominence.
I hope the community can forgive me. In either case I shall seek to improve. I love this game. I love this community. I am enveloped by my passion for all things sc2. The nasl to me represents a time of great opportunity for all. Raising the bar for western esports and making the game we know and love more accessible to new fans. If my persona or humor stands to deter that growth than how selfish am I too allow that to continue? I am the person for the job. I have the ability, the passion, the time and the desire. You may think you can name better people but for now you may just have to trust me that there are no others with these factors in alignment with their abilities.
With that in mind I want to beg you to trust that I am dedicated to doing this as best as I can. It is clear that means making changes. I am a public figure to a degree that previously was never realized by myself. I am no longer the joking or "douchy" persona on a podcast, streamer, EG captain or w/e... I am the face of a movement that is important to us all. As such I am prepared to make changes. A lot of people will see me announcing these changes as some kind of "martyring" but I can assure you I seek no such emotions. I truly believe what I did was wrong and sustaining that behavior would be a continued disservice to myself, those that have entrusted me with this role and the community I love.
At heart I am a joking person. I love a good debate and I love giving people a good hard time. I make mistakes and I have stepped over boundaries many many times. I can no longer in good conscience expose this side of myself as much as I have in the past. My profession and the community that is exposed to my profession demand a more serious approach. I do not look at this as a sacrifice but a necessary change. If I was just some player trying to commentate some games I would think my persona fine for that role. But I am not. I am the commentator for a league that is seeking to expand eSports in the west. I am a "face" for a brand that means a different future.
I promise you I will not be boring. I promise this doesn't mean I stop joking around entirely. But what it does mean is I will reduce my community exposure outside of the NASL.
That change is up to you the community. I want to hear what people think. I am a cohost of the podcast "State of the Game" and I have a stream on Justin.tv where I joke around a lot. I also post actively on TL and I read all other forums (reddit as well... )
There are going to be a lot of people that think this is a blog to get my ego stroked or to announce some martyr action or w/e. To those I am sorry, there probably is no convincing you that I truly do want to improve. To the rest please let me know what I can do to improve my performance for this community.
I will be at the GDC in san francisco. We are planning a meet n greet in the Rancho area this coming week. I will be at the PDX East and I will be at MLG Dallas this coming April. I want to meet each and every one of my supporters and critics alike and look you in the eye and swear by my beating heart that I love you, this community, this game and I am sorry if anything I have said and done has lead you to believe otherwise. Help me make the NASL something we can be proud to look at and say "we did it."
My original line doesn't really sum up all I meant to say. iNcontroL, really this situation is the result of moving from the role of a player, to a major ESPORTS personality. Unfortunate timing, and a few missteps really created a big stir. I can see how people were/are offended by what happened. However, I believe that their was no ill intent, and forgiveness is definitely warranted. A lot of what caused the controversy, your humour and attitude in general, is a great part of why you are such an awesome guy- please don't change! With that said, I reiterate:
Don't see the big deal about the kelly thing, as that was done in jest and you guys are friends..And restreaming gsl wasn't that big a deal as you shut it off when told to.
But it seems people are pissed about the Huko incident of all things >.>, I'm just a neutral observer in this one cause I don't really know how it went down besides hearing the perspectives of yourself and Huko.
Sorry to see it bothering you so much Geoff. It's the Internet, and if there is a trendy thing to "hate," they're going to latch on to it and run with it because nothing feels better to nerds than to feel like they're doing "justice" behind their computer screens. It's really unfortunate, but it's best to ignore the hate machine. Even the Kelly hate machine has somewhat blown over for the time being. This is just a byproduct mainly due to Reddit's system (the core of all the disagreements lately). All the naysayers will be upvoted, while the supporters are downvoted, so it just seems like the world is against you. Taking legitimate opinions from a mob like that is foolish. This mob are the same people who think TL moderation is too harsh and believe that the forum interface here is "clutterred and unintuitive".
There is no denying restreaming GSL was a extremely poor decision (I woke up and checked the news and was like "lol that is bad PR") but there's no reason to linger over it. It wasn't too big a deal to begin with IMO and its just something people utilized to catalyze their established disagreements. Their were always people who disagreed with your personality for a long time (before NASL). It's just a convenient target that you're associated with NASL, but really underlying it all is predetermined whining.
It's obvious that there are people out there that already have their opinions formed about you, and trying to change those opinions are a vain effort - again it's the Internet. There are some people who get your "humor" and others who don't, and trying to win the hearts and minds of every eSports nerds out there is impossible. It was obvious when people started calling your apologies "sarcastic" that they've always been disagreeing with you, and it was just the appropriate time to publically lash out.
My rambling aside, my point is to take a point out of Tyler's book and just chill. It wasn't a big deal to begin with except for already established haters blowing it way out of proportions. I highly doubt that this will effect NASL's success, since these drama things always blow over (refer to SC2 NO LAN hate, buying GSL tickets hate, Kelly hate, etc). If people want to not support probably the biggest chance eSports has in the west due to some really minuscule political Internet drama, then they care a lot more about their entitlement rather than the passion of the game.
I do find it funny that our culture is has shifted towards putting more stock in who said something rather than putting more stock in what was said. Keep being yourself and if that turns some people off, then too bad for them. I can't wait to see all the greatness that comes out of the NASL even if you can't seem to figure out that an individual league should not have rules about teams Just kidding I know you will figure a way to work it out.
was writing this ffrom my iphone and the format sucked so I got my fat ass up and went to a terminal in the hotel and wrote it. So the first 10 replies in this thread are seeing a broken iphone attempt at writing this
It was fair backlash. You can't build a reputation by being big-mouthed and walking the line without getting burnt from time to time. But if this kind of strategy (or personality?) can make you a big name on the SC2 scene, i'm not sure it is going to help a new born gaming franchise...
But it was also pretty disgusting to see Huko making a fuzz of all this in other sites. What a petty guy.
look, you are who you are and people like/dislike you for that.
For example take DJ Wheat, he is able to commentate professionally for big events, but OUTSIDE of that he still does alot of eSports related stuff, and doesnt have to stiffle his personality, curb his sense of humour or censor himself in any way.
just be yourself, and dont do this
But what it does mean is I will reduce my community exposure outside of the NASL.
because then youll be taking away alot of what this community expects and likes of you. we want to see you involved in eSports even more then you are now, because you will be this figure head.
I'm glad that you're going to step up the professionalism to the level of your station. I'm sure you'll always be a little edgy since that's just who you are, but you did need to tone it down a bit. Very mature.
We all still love you, Geoff. Don't let a few poor decisions get the best of you. I'm always thrilled when Tuesday rolls along, because then I get to think to myself, "What the hell is iNcontroL gonna do today?!", and in the LOL way, not the OMG way.
While your public persona may have to change a bit to present the NASL in a more professional manner, I love being able to watch your stream or State of the Game, and laugh along with hundreds of other people at your antics.
Honestly I think it got blown out of proportion, but I may be biased because I dig you. I don't know how to say that without any sort of homo-eroticism attached... /shrug
Either way, I think that honestly the hate is amplified because it is riding behind the Kelly hate, which is also kind of unfortunate because I think that was blown out of proportion as well. Let's face it - there's a lot of nerds in the StarCraft community and nerds are characteristically defined by their passion towards something. StarCraft is something worth being very passionate about.
I, for one, hope you don't change too much because then I'll have a reason to be genuinely upset with the community I enjoy being a part of.
When I read your tweet, I thought you were going to completely change your personality or something. Glad to see thats not the case. I don't think the those 2 reddit threads would have gotten as heated and full of hate as they did if NASL wasn't happening.
Since you're going to be public face of it, it's natural to expect a little more hate than you're used to, but all the recent drama certainly hasn't helped things. I don't think anyone will hold it against you since this is a sincere post and was probably difficult for you to write. As much as the entire community can focus hate on someone, I'm also certain that they can forgive.
Maybe it was a good thing the way all this stuff happened, I'm sure you can recognize that being the school bully wasn't really going to fly with NASL happening and your involvement. I don't know if you knew that before, but hey you certainly do now, so don't sweat it. I don't know that what people really wanted was for you to reduce your exposure outside of NASL events, but certainly injecting a bit of neutrality and manner into your persona is almost necessary for your position to work.
Everyone makes mistakes but the best thing you can do is learn from it and move on. I would still hire you as a life coach, because your still an amazing person
Sounds cool. I don't expect you to suddenly be picture perfect and never speak negatively or joke about anyone, but maybe be a bit more wary of when it's time to lay off a certain track.
It is a sad fucking day when iNcontroL, a proven member and veteran of the esports community has to write an apology like this. All this hyper-PC bullshit combined with the ridiculous smear campaign from a few people avalanching due to senseless bandwagoning really makes me sick.
Ultimately, however, if there is one person who I KNOW I can count on to put his ego aside, and do what is best for ESPORTS no matter how much it hurts, it is iNcontroL. You have my respect, Geoff. Seriously.
On February 26 2011 05:36 elmizzt wrote: It is a sad fucking day when iNcontroL, a proven member and veteran of the esports community has to write an apology like this. All this hyper-PC bullshit combined with the ridiculous smear campaign from a few people avalanching due to senseless bandwagoning really makes me sick.
Ultimately, however, if there is one person who I KNOW I can count on to put his ego aside, and do what is best for ESPORTS no matter how much it hurts, it is iNcontroL. You have my respect, Geoff. Seriously.
I don't think it's ridiculous that he had to apologize... I mean, as he wrote, it was the right thing to do. He made a couple bad decisions and when you're the public face of something and you make those mistakes an apology is the reasonable thing to do.
That said, iNcontroL... I love what you do for ESPORTS, GL HF with NASL :-)
On February 26 2011 05:36 elmizzt wrote: It is a sad fucking day when iNcontroL, a proven member and veteran of the esports community has to write an apology like this. All this hyper-PC bullshit combined with the ridiculous smear campaign from a few people avalanching due to senseless bandwagoning really makes me sick.
The way an esports figure could behave in the past is not necessarily the way an esports figure could behave in the future. We want our community to grow, not to be insular. We want to be a crowd of friendly and fun, but first and foremost serious-minded and competitive people if we want to really be taken seriously and have mass appeal. We can't be a community that goes "kelly says banerings hahahah"(didn't actually catch the jokes incontrol made fwiw) or drops the word "rape" in shoutcasts or has edgy and controversial figures at its forefront. If Incontrol wants to be the figurehead of this operation, if he feels he has to be the figurehead of this operation, he has to be willing to adjust to the level of his station.
I'll admit that I didn't like the fun made of Kelly, and I do think that your argumentative style tends too much toward "that's retarded" instead of "I disagree". But I still like hearing your opinions and respect you as a good source of Starcraft 2 knowledge.
I really hope you don't stop streaming or doing state of the game. I think the NASL is a really great thing for esports, and I'm really grateful you're leading the charge. You might have to learn to be a little more 'professional', but don't let the bastards grind you down.
No longer a banling? Good luck Inc. I hope the changes you chose to make work out for you. Everyone makes mistakes. Its how you deal with them is what is important.
incontrol... you have done so much for the community the least the community could do is to forget the whole issue and just keep on celebrating western esports which is exploding right now.
i appreciate your work at nasl, you work as a player and you as a funny, entertaining guy
We all make mistakes big fella. It takes a big man to honestly own up to them. Your passion for gaming and SC2 is fantastic. Learn from mistakes but don't let the haters extinguish your fire and passion. It's people like you who have been building eSports for quite some time now. We're often targeted and hated on but if you keep your eye on the prize you'll find success for yourself and the community that you love.
It seems the stress of Nasl has been getting to you.
From what i see is that you need balance, you don't need to be the tightly strung professional, nor can you be as casual as you were before you were such a pulbic figure.
I give you an expample. look at Day9. if you look back to a lot of his older posts, you can see he clearly made some that were a little crude. he has since deleted most of them. Reason he deleted them was because he is now the biggest figure in starcraft, and he deemed those posts not to be good for him if those were ever to be found.
Day9 still is himself, he still is funny and charming, but he had to tone it down for the sake of professionalism. he has found the balance between both. you shold do the same. you need to represent NASL on a professional level, and be yourself at the same time.
to be honest what i understand from everything is that you restreamed gsl and essentialy mocked and made fun of kelly. for many reasons that was no tthe right thing to do. there were lines that were crossed, and you knew that. we are humans and make mistakes, yours just happend to be in the spotlight.
what i think is you really need to be who you are, but be careful not to cross lines like you have before. like i had said, find the balance. many other people have found their balance, and done really well.
still be who you are, but just be a little more cautious not to cross lines. its what every pulbic figure does.
I just think that sometimes the joking is a bit too personal and disrespectful-sounding, more like bullying. While as a normal person among friends that can no doubt be absolutely hilarious, it's not too becoming when it comes from a professional player and caster regarding other players and casters.
Artosis is (or used to be) pretty similar I feel, but he has toned it down some and to me done it just the right amount as well. I feel if you just tone down some of the more extreme stuff that we all know (and usually like) you're just saying to get people riled up, it would be ok. I recognize the situation because I'm exactly like that myself and have to make an effort among strangers I don't wish to offend too much, to restrain myself and my candid humor to a somewhat more appropriate level. You don't have to go all the way and become a children's program host though like Day9.
I've never been much of a fan before but I will wish you good luck in your career and personal development so hopefully I and many others can become fans some day.
Don't take it too harshly! Some people are blowing this way out of hand! There are very many of us who love you they way you are, we just got out-shouted by the haters. The re-streaming incident was obviously not the greatest, but do not take it too badly: You made a mistake and apologized. The amount of hate is not even remotely proportional or justified. We love you Geoff!
On February 26 2011 04:59 iNcontroL wrote:You may think you can name better people but for now you may just have to trust me that there are no others with these factors in alignment with their abilities.
No offense, but there are definitely others who could do what you are trying to do.
Dr. InControl, those of us who enjoy and support what you do, who you are, and everything you bring to this community (and there are loads of us who do!) understand that any comments/etc are all in good fun. I never would have asked you to apologize for anything thus far, and it sucks that some people made you feel that you had to.
It's totally understandable that being one of the pillars of NASL will demand a bit more professional demeanor, but that comes with starting such a huge, public-facing project. As others have said before me: I really hope you don't change too much! Your personality is a huge part of why people love you, and some tend to hate on you. That's part of being a man imo, if you don't have a polarizing effect on people, you run the risk of fading into the crowd.
That said, you're a guy who I'd love to grab a beer with and shoot the shit. I love what you're doing for SC and esports. Keep on truckin, and be who you are.
I have never posted on TL before but I just wanted to say this.
Apology accepted.
It's not easy being an image and a face of something. But with professionalism comes responsibility, you need to take that responsibility and stop complaining about the community so much, because that drives a line between what you and the pros want and the general average watcher of e-sports wants.
Day9's success is not hard to capture, you just need to listen and take what you can get from all kinds of feedback, and just be positive. You were not being positive you were just saying you were. Drop the i'm right attitude and work on just being your self and creating a sport that people will enjoy watching. Day9 does so well simply because he cares about the game, not about the money behind the game, and that in term gets him publicity and makes him popular.
Don't be surprised if the replay thing doesn't work for the masses, but if it does, then it does.
I agree that (based on my interpretation of the facts as they've presented here/on reddit/etc) that you made a mistake by restreaming GSL and making sarcastic comments about it (at least, in a place where someone was able to see and screenshot them), especially since you're the public face of NASL.
That being said, the overwhelming backlash is absurdly disproportionate to the mistake that you seem to have made, especially given your quick and sincere apology. It's got to be hard dealing with crap like this, but please don't overwhelmingly reduce your public exposure outside of NASL. Stuff like SotG (as well as the community as a whole) would suffer greatly from your absence.
Nobody complained when you trashed on Artosis for 5 straight minutes on SotG, because it was all in good fun and quite possibly one of the funniest moments in the history of e-sports.
I never heard what you said about Kelly, but frankly I'm a little bummed you'll be taking a more serious approach in the future
Either way, this is probably a change for the better, at least until the NASL is a little more established.
It's okay, we love you. "I am no longer the joking or "douchy" persona on a podcast, streamer, EG captain or w/e..."well crap, does this mean state of the game will be state of the lame? as in all serious podcast or are you going to still joke around? Incontrol, the community loves U
ok its obvious the restreaming thing was a mistake.
However outside of that. DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING ABOUT URSELF.
Do not censor or try to act a certain way simply because you believe that is what constitutes "professionalism". What does that even mean?! You are who you are and that is why the SC community loves listening to you talk. You are freaking hilarious and entertaining. I wouldnt listen to SOTG every week if u wernt on it with ur hilarious jokes and comments. Also thank you for being the brotoss to slap some sense into QQing zergs saying P is OP.
Everyone says stupid stuff time to time. It happens to everyone at one point or more in their life and they usually wish they could have taken it back. It is pretty cool that you took the time to write a letter.
Keep on trucking and hopefully everything goes in the right direction for you. I am going to enjoy the NASL and give it a lot of attention in the future. Like anything worth while it will get better as time progresses.
Good luck with your endeavours and I look forward to more of your content you create!
Wow, I respect you more so than ever now and I apologize for any negativity I may have brought you in the past. Now realize you are a great choice for the NASL. I do also hope you don't just stop joking on sotg for that podcast is freaking great keep it up. I hope all goes well! iNcontrol fighting!!!
On February 26 2011 04:59 iNcontroL wrote:You may think you can name better people but for now you may just have to trust me that there are no others with these factors in alignment with their abilities.
No offense, but there are definitely others who could do what you are trying to do.
I can't think of a single person with the ability, drive, and visibility that could do what iNc can. Sure there are better casters, better organizers, better players, but there isn't anyone with a large fan base who combines all of these aspects into a single person. Can you imagine the backlash from TL fans if Nasl.tv removed geoff and replaced him with any caster other than day9? There are very few hyper-visible popular figures in ESPORTS atm, and iNcontroL is one of them (the others being tasteless, day9, djwheat, idra, artosis, etc, and all of them are already commited to other projects). ANYONE else would be entirely unable to draw in viewers and interest.
So get off the man's back and let him do his goddamn job.
Amongst all the apologising, which I completely respect, you seem to have neglected the issue with John 'Total Biscuit' Bain. As I read through I was sure his name would arise at some point. It hasn't. I heard on SotG that Kelly asked you to stop impersonating her which let to your 'making up' (I don't know the details of course) are you expecting the first move my TB also? In my honest opinion, I know it's not in your protoss nature but why not just go all in make the apology here, then I think a lot of fans like me can rest assured knowing everything is all nice at settled.
As a long time reddit member I want to say that reddit is a huge community, sure we have a starcraft subreddit but it attracts people from all the other subreddits. With this many people there will be, undoubtedly, many opinions about everything and everyone. Unfortunately, and as is the case with many other large websides, the "hivemind" attitude will always take things to the extreme - find a funny meme? repost it 100 times, guy needs $5 for lunch? send him 100 pizzas, guy lied about needing $5 for lunch? ruin his life.
That being said, I want to apologize on behalf of /r/sc and hope that theres no hurt feelings over this. Being a longtime member of both communities I can assure you that we all have the same goal in mind: Making Western eSports a great success!
There are plentiful of casters but only one inControL.
Sure, mocking kelly was not the best move but I think you will lose popularity if you tone down. The reason people love you is because you say what you think and don't bow down to the pressure from the immature morons.
Whatever way you go, inControL fighting!
Oh, and don't leave State of the game either way. You are the best part of that show!
I created an account on TL entirely because I wanted to discuss this whole shitstorm. Here's my take, or at least what it's amounted to so far.
A lot of people trying to figure out why things have gotten crazy have focused on the fact that the anonymity of the Internet allows people to be dicks. That's certainly true, and it contributes--no question there. But it's only part of the picture.
The bigger factor by far is that there's a barrier to posting your opinion about anything in a public forum. In in-person conversation, people's expressed opinions on a subject are "eh, whatever" all the time. Who posts that on the Internet?
I would be absolutely blown away if the divide between rabid fans and rabid detractors were really so strong as it seems from reading a random thread on Reddit or something. On Reddit, either you're a racist who hates women and is conducting some sort of under-handed operation with NASL (not even kidding!) or any criticism of you will doom NASL, and because NASL is the one chance for SCII to get big in the West, any criticism of you actually ruins all of our lives forever.
Another problem, I think, is that due to the tremendous extent to which the larger SCII community gets some insight into progamers' lives--we see the inside of apartments, raw footage from parties, live streams--the viewing public is led to believe that they have all the context they need. The end result is that when you BM another pro, they use their preconceived notions about you to determine whether you're doing it because you're a giant tool or because the two of you are friends and you joke around comfortably.
In a totally different competitive activity, I am a vice-president of a major outreach organization (that runs a national championship, to boot), a moderator of its online community, and a player. All three. But I'm careful about putting the right hat on. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to troll it up on State of the Game, and there's no reason you shouldn't be able to whip your hair on your stream. But keep those personae rigorously separate from your NASL persona. I'm a former debater too; I know you can put on a professional face when you need to. And, much as in debate, you can let some levity in, even if it might be easier at first to be all business, just to make sure you keep your boundaries.
I can't imagine a progamer I'd have more faith in than you, Geoff, to start off this league. I'm pulling for you. I hope to be at a LAN sometime, though who knows when--or perhaps I'll buy some coaching. I hope I get a chance to thank you, both for my standard PvZ build and for being a strong leader of this community.
We all make mistakes big fella. It takes a big man to honestly own up to them. Your passion for gaming and SC2 is fantastic. Learn from mistakes but don't let the haters extinguish your fire and passion. It's people like you who have been building eSports for quite some time now. We're often targeted and hated on but if you keep your eye on the prize you'll find success for yourself and the community that you love.
I also created an account to say that all you have to do is not be a dick. Everything else is completely alright, just stop being a dick. You weren't as dickish until NASL came out (or at least not as publicly dickish) and people were cool with it.
STOP BEING A DICK.
And ignore all those people who apologize on behalf of /r/sc. There is still a high level of skepticism. If you want to see a crazy change in public perception on reddit, just do an AMA and people will be running over to you trying to suck your dick.
I think some of the backlash you received over recent events was deserved. However I also believe that you understand where you went wrong and what you need to work on in the future.
However you go about things, this better not result in any reduction of hair whipping, particularly of the back and forth variety.
I seriously do enjoy your stream, sotg appearance and your joking character in all the ways possible.
On the one side I'm happy for you to be the face of NASL, but selfishly if this post means you'll appear less or in different way on your stream or anywhere else I can encounter you online, then it makes me sad.
Reddit isn't even a credible source for starcraft information so I wouldn't care what they think. It's a constant drama pit / soap opera over there. Have you seen their board in the past few hours? It's all stupid memes and pictures of their favorite players. I've never seen a civil starcraft discussion over there. They're the ones who blew this out of proportion in the first place. They should be shunned from the SC community if you ask me, they contribute nothing.
It's all about figuring out what's appropriate and when, and that's not always immediately obvious. Sometimes you don't see the barrier until you crash into it. Once you find that happy medium, you'll be golden, it's when you stray to far to either side of the spectrum that you run into problems.
Don't change how u are in State of the Game, such a blast to have somebody with entertainment-level 100 and dares to open his mouth!
Totally understand you have to change for a big thing like the NASL, promoting the ONE big event which will change the whole western e-sports community.
Continue to be what you are, incontrol, people love you for a reason. I wouldn't want you to change in any way as you are a part of what makes this community awesome.
On February 26 2011 06:14 WTL wrote: Reddit isn't even a credible source for starcraft information so I wouldn't care what they think. It's a constant drama pit / soap opera over there. Have you seen their board in the past few hours? It's all stupid memes and pictures of their favorite players. I've never seen a civil starcraft discussion over there. They're the ones who blew this out of proportion in the first place. They should be shunned from the SC community if you ask me, they contribute nothing.
Please, let's not do this. Reddit has an active and important SC2 subcommunity that's important to the wider Starcraft, SC2, and esports community(communities). SC should be a no hate zone.
In all honesty, Incontrol's continued joking around was the number one reason I liked him. He never let the haters get to him. He was true to himself and his own personality. By giving up that joking nature the trolls and a vocal minority win.
So my advice to you Geoff is this. Never stop ranting on SotG. Never stop impersonating voices. Never stop calling people bad if you think they are. Speak your mind. Don't censor yourself just so people can feel better about you as a caster. Let your casting stand for itself.
Wow, that sucks, you have a ton of fans because your personality. I thought the Kelly stuff was pretty funny, and hardly that mean since you know each other and probably can joke with each other like that, but I guess it looks a lot worse now when there is so much retarded Kelly bandwagon hate. Hope you keep your personality colourful and awesome like we all know it is, PC is for pussies.
I hope incontrol's humor on SotG and his stream are not affected by the level of professionalism we are all expecting from his NASL casts. I'll be whipping my hair with you to the end.
Hey inControl, I think this is a good post. I'm a big fan of you and everyone makes mistakes. I would like to second what Mr.Ch4rms (and probably others) have said, don't withdraw from the community. Change your interaction style with the community maybe, but don't interact less. Still stream and talk with your viewers, still do the SOTG, still post a lot on TL. People will appreciate it even more. Just my 2 cents, and good luck!
I think you are funny and great most of the times but I also do agree with everything you said in this blog. Mocking Kelly and restreaming GSL was retarded and I never thought you would do that.
I hope the NASL turns out great and I'm sure you'll do your best make it as good as possible.
On February 26 2011 06:20 Phisk wrote: Wow, that sucks, you have a ton of fans because your personality. I thought the Kelly stuff was pretty funny, and hardly that mean since you know each other and probably can joke with each other like that, but I guess it looks a lot worse now when there is so much retarded Kelly bandwagon hate. Hope you keep your personality colourful and awesome like we all know it is, PC is for pussies.
It was hillarious, everything Inc does is hillarious, but the community is forcing him to step up now that he's the face of NASL. When he was a player and just a community member, most people didn't care but he has a lot more responsibility. It's kind of like how Day9 had to delete his airplane story which, by the way is the best story ever written.
I can respect the apology and also respect his decision to be a better person now that he'll be in the esports 'limelight'. Hope we still get glimpses of the old incontrol though ;]
This entire thing has been completely blown out of proportion. Welcome to the internet where people can find one thing to hone in on to try to bash someone who is something they aren't. Was the re-streaming thing wrong? Yeah, but its also quite obvious most people running their mouth didn't even see your stream that night, its not like you were running it full screen in HD and sitting back watching it without saying anything. Aside from the Huk match, you were mostly tabbed out on TL or doing something else and even when the stream was on screen it was half-covered by the top of the window.
Either way, don't change too much Geoff, the community likes you for who you have always been, not who you're trying to be.
Inc, I know this must be hard for you, the whole going from a prominent guy in the community to the utmost forefront in a matter of days must be really hard. However, I think that you need to take into account that you will never make everybody happy, there will always be something that will rub someone the wrong way. What you have to do is to either let is slide or learn from it.
You are too valuable to SC and ESports to let bad opinions get to you and I for one am extremely happy and enthusiastic about NASL and hope it becomes a gigantic success!
I'll be really sad to see you become a politician like this. Do your best to change the things you can, but the views of some people will never change.
I also think that most of what you did and said in the past was just great and a good laugh, I think I did get your kind of humor and sarcasm but by turning this game into a profession and getting paid for your work, people now want you to become more serious.
I for my part love a good tournament but I also know that SC2 is just a game and we should have fun enjoin it. I hope you still remain a unique figure in e-sports and voice your opinion in all the forums and shows you partake.
Anyone makes mistakes and you seem to regret this.
I hope that the NASL turns out great and will produce a lot of epic games. I will for sure follow this tournament as well no matter how you (the NASL) decide to pic the players.
I think that I understand and get how your rants are mend and I take them not relay serious but I have a great time reading them or hearing them on SotG and i think that makes this show different form the other podcast about strategies tournaments and Starcraft related news.
To sum up my post please do not change all to much and keep us entertained.
On February 26 2011 06:01 CaptainTwig wrote: Amongst all the apologising, which I completely respect, you seem to have neglected the issue with John 'Total Biscuit' Bain. As I read through I was sure his name would arise at some point. It hasn't. I heard on SotG that Kelly asked you to stop impersonating her which let to your 'making up' (I don't know the details of course) are you expecting the first move my TB also? In my honest opinion, I know it's not in your protoss nature but why not just go all in make the apology here, then I think a lot of fans like me can rest assured knowing everything is all nice at settled.
Honestly, all Incontrol did was (attempt to) imitate their accents. With Kelly it's understandably a sensitive issue, what with all the shit she's been getting about her commenting. But TB seems to be a thick-skinned chap, so you shouldn't worry about him.
I really hope you dont change too much, Incontrol. I find you hilarious, and obviously others do too, which is the reason why you're now the face of NASL. Except you're not 'nice' hilarious. You're the kind of guy that talks trash while being funny. That's far harder to pull off, because you're constantly walking the line. Ask Stephen Colbert. I'd hate to see a SOTG where you're just creeping in the background not saying anything and apologizing when you do. Say everything you would say, after thinking about it for a second. I'm sure you're already aware of this, I just want to reiterate it.
As for NASL, let's show the rest of the world how it's done.
I think this is definitely a good thing to see. It's unfortunate that it needed to be this serious, but I suspect that this has served as a wake-up call for iNcontrol as to the prominance of his new position.
With that said, I believe that the reaction to this was somewhat overblown, in that iNcontrol has become the focus of the hopes and fears of many e-sports lovers, as the face of the NASL, and as such is going to be held to an impossibly high standard of professionalism and seriousness. He's a man, just like any other, with his own quirks and foibles, so he will always disappoint those who (to horribly misuse a cliche) expect the stars, even if they get the moon! I have never doubted his passion for e-sports, so I believe he will learn from his mistakes, because he honestly wants the best possible outcome for Western e-sports.
And let's all be honest - reddit hiveminds pretty darn hard. Upvotes and downvotes are very easy to spam out, and we can all be fickle at times.This should also be a reminder that reddit also has a level of prominance in the SC2 community, and has a responsibility to be even-handed. The extremists only stand out when the moderates aren't bothered enough to post, so more of that needs to happen.
As to the Kelly thing - I think most people realised pretty soon that, to be blunt, they were being tossers about her accent. I think she's doing pretty darn well given three days of live casting experience, so big ups to her. Let's move on from that stuff.
Edit: Oh, and to everyone who is saying "don't give in to the haters": I don't believe iNcontrol is giving in to haters. I think he is taking criticism (led vocally and far too etremely by the aforementioned haters) and resolving to improve based on that criticism. The ability to acknowledge that you are at fault and to attempt to remedy that is a strength, not a weakness. So good job iNcontrol, this bodes well for NASL!
When I made a response to you while banned, this is exactly what I wanted to let you know how I feel. I didn't intend for this to turn into the shitstorm that it did, but I felt I was being ignored, and then banned, so reddit was my only hope.
After reading this, I have to say that I am a iNcontrol fan again, glad you are taking steps in the right direction to make this as awesome as everyone wants it to be! (This might have been better in a PM, but I figured since it was a blog)
Don't go changing too much. Theres a reason so many people love you(as seen in this thread), but it's a fine line between being fun and being mean, a line i cross a bit too often. Just hope you stay on the right side, and keep on keeping on!
I think it's pretty clear that you(iNcontrol) still have the whole community behind you. You apologizing shows you are mature and that you want to resolve issues. It takes the bigger man to apologize or know he is wrong. Humility is a lacking trait in this world.
"The only thing I use TL for is finding out when events are happening and using the stream list, otherwise its a complete clusterfuck."
"The website established a pretty strong community, but is now obsolete. The content is entirely user driven, but the framework to hold it all is outdated."
"That's what reddit is for, we balance people out and keep them on their toes. Now incontrol just needs to think straight and stop whining about the community so damn much." (How elitist can you get?)
"It's unreadable because of how the community on TL dick rides the brood war pro-gamers."
I quit smoking two days ago and at this point, I'm ready to climb out of my own skin and wind it up like a wet towel to slap everyone in the vicinity. Let me get all sappy-ass on you for a second and say you're inspiration to me, personally, and here's why:
First of all, you admitted to a community of thousands that you made a mistake, and said your sorries in front of us all. Ball check, 'nuff said.
Secondly, you're making a conscious change in how you present yourself to us, and you're sacrificing some freedom for the betterment of the community. It's obvious how much you love this, and it's such an incredible motivator for me to take care of my shit and make the effort to get where I want to be in life.
You're taking on the responsibility of changing the face of eSports in the West. It's not going to be easy, but you're living, breathing it every day, pouring every ounce of dedication you have into our entertainment. You're proving yourself as a man of great worth to many. Know that you have the trust and support of a complete stranger.
On February 26 2011 05:37 ribboo wrote: reddit are morons. you're doing great, keep it up
Way to over generalize, reddit are reacting well to incontrol's actions.
The reddit posters claimed incontrol's actions were going to be the downfall of western esports. I guess that's "reacting well".
I was talking about reacting to incontrols response to the drama. Untill that point of course anyone is going to go slightly mad with speculation about potential repercussions untill they read something like the OP. Such things happen in a thinly moderated environment.
On February 26 2011 06:36 WTL wrote:
Why do the posts of few reflect, in your eyes, the opinions of many? Whats your point? People arent allowed to dislike Teamliquid?
"The only thing I use TL for is finding out when events are happening and using the stream list, otherwise its a complete clusterfuck."
"The website established a pretty strong community, but is now obsolete. The content is entirely user driven, but the framework to hold it all is outdated."
"It's unreadable because of how the community on TL dick rides the brood war pro-gamers."
That was 5 seconds of searching.
The first post is asking if you find TL hard to navigate, to Hotbid and Kennigit both responded with funny, sarcastic comments basically agreeing that it's pretty hard to navigate for new users.
The second post has 5 upvotes and 16 downvotes.
The third post is a 0 rated thread with 1 comment and no upvotes.
The fourth post is another thread that has more downvotes than it has upvotes.
Maybe try harder?
And one of those isn't even from R/SC it's from a completely different subreddit.
On February 26 2011 05:37 ribboo wrote: reddit are morons. you're doing great, keep it up
Way to over generalize, reddit are reacting well to incontrol's actions.
The reddit posters claimed incontrol's actions were going to be the downfall of western esports. I guess that's "reacting well".
I was talking about reacting to incontrols response to the drama. Untill that point of course anyone is going to go slightly mad with speculation about potential repercussions untill they read something like the OP. Such things happen in a thinly moderated environment.
Why do the posts of few reflect, in your eyes, the opinions of many? Whats your point? People arent allowed to dislike Teamliquid?
How about the fact that we hold that website in a high regard even though when every time a TL thread pops up, an overwhelming amount of reddit users just make fun of it?
"The only thing I use TL for is finding out when events are happening and using the stream list, otherwise its a complete clusterfuck."
"The website established a pretty strong community, but is now obsolete. The content is entirely user driven, but the framework to hold it all is outdated."
"It's unreadable because of how the community on TL dick rides the brood war pro-gamers."
That was 5 seconds of searching.
The first post is asking if you find TL hard to navigate, to Hotbid and Kennigit both responded with funny, sarcastic comments basically agreeing that it's pretty hard to navigate for new users.
The second post is a 0 rated thread with 1 comment and no upvotes.
The third post is another thread that has more downvotes than it has upvotes.
Maybe try harder?
Maybe you should read the comments? Namely the top rated one?
On February 26 2011 06:33 ImHuko wrote: When I made a response to you while banned, this is exactly what I wanted to let you know how I feel. I didn't intend for this to turn into the shitstorm that it did, but I felt I was being ignored, and then banned, so reddit was my only hope.
After reading this, I have to say that I am a iNcontrol fan again, glad you are taking steps in the right direction to make this as awesome as everyone wants it to be! (This might have been better in a PM, but I figured since it was a blog)
You framed it in the exact worst way possible. There is no way you could have phrased your reddit submission and your comments that would have caused more damage to the public perception of the NASL. You made it quite clear that you thought Incontrol was an irredeemable douchebag and shouldn't be associated with something like the NASL.
It is obvious Incontrol didn't read a fucking thing anyone said. Another reason why he shouldn't be the face of one of the leading movements in E-Sports. Now he says some random fan pleasing bullshit that I can't respond to because I am banned.
I want sponsors to think of fucking Day9 when they want to sponsor a huge E-Sport, not a guy who portrays himself as one of the biggest douche bags in the community.
How are we supposed to support a company that profits off of stolen goods?
So, I'm not going to say that you should apologize yourself or anything, but honestly you shouldn't be making excuses for what you did.
On February 26 2011 05:37 ribboo wrote: reddit are morons. you're doing great, keep it up
Way to over generalize, reddit are reacting well to incontrol's actions.
The reddit posters claimed incontrol's actions were going to be the downfall of western esports. I guess that's "reacting well".
I was talking about reacting to incontrols response to the drama. Untill that point of course anyone is going to go slightly mad with speculation about potential repercussions untill they read something like the OP. Such things happen in a thinly moderated environment.
On February 26 2011 06:36 WTL wrote:
Why do the posts of few reflect, in your eyes, the opinions of many? Whats your point? People arent allowed to dislike Teamliquid?
How about the fact that we hold that website in a high regard when every time a TL thread pops up an overwhelming amount of reddit users just make fun of it?
"The only thing I use TL for is finding out when events are happening and using the stream list, otherwise its a complete clusterfuck."
"The website established a pretty strong community, but is now obsolete. The content is entirely user driven, but the framework to hold it all is outdated."
"It's unreadable because of how the community on TL dick rides the brood war pro-gamers."
That was 5 seconds of searching.
The first post is asking if you find TL hard to navigate, to Hotbid and Kennigit both responded with funny, sarcastic comments basically agreeing that it's pretty hard to navigate for new users.
The second post is a 0 rated thread with 1 comment and no upvotes.
The third post is another thread that has more downvotes than it has upvotes.
Maybe try harder?
Maybe you should read the comments? Namely the top rated one?
The joke about being banned for this post? Kennigit/Hotbids post? Agreeing that its hard to navigate outside of the streams?
I'm not sure what post you're referring to. They're all complaining about the navigation of the site, not the content or the mods.
Its all a part of being the face and not just a player. i applaud you for your first step towards that endeavor> Looking forward to the NASL. Thank you for your maturity.
How about the fact that we hold that website in a high regard when every time a TL thread pops up an overwhelming amount of reddit users just make fun of it?
Maybe you should read the comments? Namely the top rated one?
To be fair, the upvote/downvote score on the thread is of far more importance than the comment ratings. Highly upvoted comments in buried threads are still seldom seen, and they are buried for a reason.
With that said, the fact that some people - even if it is the majority of people, which I doubt - dislike TL on reddit is no reason to dismiss the site. It doesn't mean that there are no redditors who respect TL, or that all of reddit's content is useless. Reddit and TL are two overlapping communities which fulfil somewhat different roles. TL is a highly moderated, highly focused discussion forum, which has many merits, which reddit is a user-sourced and prioritised content sharing and discussion forum, which also has many merits. This antagonism serves no-one, but unfortunately seems to stem from misunderstanding about the goals and operating procedure of each community.
GSL Restreaming was good, Kelly imitation was better. I don't know why people are going over Geoff for this. Stop this hatin. He's better than all of his haters combined. Make a room for the big dawg.
People just need something to buzz about. That doesn't mean that crossing the line every now and then is fine. Public apology is a good move. Even if (seriously doubt that though) NASL will not be a huge success, iNcontrol won't be the one to blame because of this whole thing.
don't apologize. if people are going to get up in arms over silly things like making fun of people's accents, then that's their loss. you are hilarious. there isn't a single time ive listened to SotG or your stream where you haven't made me lol. Don't step on eggshells for anyone, just be who you are, cuz frankly, you are awesome! that is all.
Peoples arguments against you or against the NASL over the last few days have been poor and pathetic. Any small, meaningless garbage is now blown out of proportion due to the fabled saying "face of the future of esports in the west". Unfortunately not one of the masterminds that say this stuff have a damn clue what they are actually talking about.
I've been on Reddit getting downvoted to oblivion defending iNcontroL and the NASL the whole week cus I don't even get why people are complaining so much. Keep up the good work.
Please don't change to be more serious! You're the best when you're being who you are! If you're acting as a spokesman for the NASL in an official capacity I can understand the need to be professional, but please never stop being awesome on SOTG and your Stream and everything else!! The amount of hate over NASL and yourself is simply absurd, and you shouldn't let it affect you at all. Apologizing for a few (small) publicity mistakes are the most ANYONE should expect from you.
I didn't know much about the situation. But as a soon to be even bigger representative you should not have restreamed GSL. It just doesn't fit with the role you've put yourself into. However it is brave of you to say sorry and admit your mistake.
Don't change too much. We don't want you to be the Blatter of ESPORTS. Not everything that tradiotional commercialized 'viewer' sports have to offer is something we want.
Ok this is derailing into a reddit v. tl competition. The guy asked what he can do to improve. The only thing I can think of is to just be a bit more careful when doing/saying things.
1. The streaming/banning issues are moot at this point and you know what's up in regards to that.
2. Poking fun at other people/casters/players. Personally, I don't give a flying fuck if you're the head of the GSL or WCG; that stuff doesn't bother me. I love hearing friendly pokes at other players. And yes, I interpret most of your jokes as friendly pokes. But apparently many people, the ones that these pokes are not even directed at, take offense to it. To me there is a clash: people's need to grow some god damn thick skin vs. some of your comments being a bit over the top.
It's a tough line to walk, but I have faith you will figure out which ones cross over the line. It will just take some time.
Other than that, GL dude. All of this will easily be forgotten come next week!
On February 26 2011 06:33 ImHuko wrote: When I made a response to you while banned, this is exactly what I wanted to let you know how I feel. I didn't intend for this to turn into the shitstorm that it did, but I felt I was being ignored, and then banned, so reddit was my only hope.
After reading this, I have to say that I am a iNcontrol fan again, glad you are taking steps in the right direction to make this as awesome as everyone wants it to be! (This might have been better in a PM, but I figured since it was a blog)
You framed it in the exact worst way possible. There is no way you could have phrased your reddit submission and your comments that would have caused more damage to the public perception of the NASL. You made it quite clear that you thought Incontrol was an irredeemable douchebag and shouldn't be associated with something like the NASL.
It is obvious Incontrol didn't read a fucking thing anyone said. Another reason why he shouldn't be the face of one of the leading movements in E-Sports. Now he says some random fan pleasing bullshit that I can't respond to because I am banned.
I want sponsors to think of fucking Day9 when they want to sponsor a huge E-Sport, not a guy who portrays himself as one of the biggest douche bags in the community.
the weirdest thing to me is that it seems like a LOT of people are so anxious to attack the first negative thing they see in this nasl thing. everything has kinks, they are aware of it. everyone makes mistakes, incontrol knows that and is going to fix it. the way people just relentlessly throw the hate around is despicable though. some criticism is good yes but there are limits of course. everyone should be doing their best to support the league and not bring it down by attacking its every setback and flaw.
Here's what you do, you stop giving a shit about every little whiney kid in his basement like you always do and supply us with an awesome, fair and epic league that lives up to your hype. I think for the people who are at least out of primary school all of this "drama" is no issue. No one has even seen the NASL and they are already complaining, if this isn't reason enough to not give a shit i dont know what is. Now get back to hair whipping.
I was a critic of you, I will not lie. But your statement here hit the tone and I fully agree with everything you said.
I would like anyone that doesn't think InControl should change his public attitude or behavior to look at the classic old day 9 commentary. Day 9 doesn't act like this anymore, and while I admit it is a fun blast from the past and we think we'd all like him to seem like this all the time, the truth is that his cleaner public persona is much more palatable over long periods and much better for eSports.
So, InControl. Thanks for you humility and understanding. You put yourself out there publicly and had to unfortunately take a few lumps from a bunch of anonymous people behind screens. You have taken it like a man though and I think a large majority of us that were doubters are looking forward to your incredible commitment and investment into NASL.
Don't change. Don't think that being part of something big means that you have to subscribe to some misunderstood standard of professionalism. It doesn't mean anything.
You're obviously a very passionate guy and it's normal for passionate people to do things without really thinking it through. Don't change that. If people are going to commend you for the excitement you bring to the whole gaming thing in one breath, they can't turn around and complain about some missteps in the next breath. It all comes from the same source.
This kind of stuff is so annoying. It's like calling a press-conference or checking into rehab because you (god forbid) had too much to drink and someone caught it on camera.
You're like the Don Cherry of StarCraft, albeit not yet quite as senile. I'm sour on Cherry but he brings a lot of attention to hockey and he's the kind of personality that transcends the blandness of the norm and gets people talking about stuff - even if it's just to bitch about him.
On February 26 2011 06:53 Djagulingu wrote: GSL Restreaming was good, Kelly imitation was better. I don't know why people are going over Geoff for this. Stop this hatin. He's better than all of his haters combined. Make a room for the big dawg.
You know that geoff banned people who restreamed gsl or mocked Kelly? Think before you write something.
Seriously I think this could be good change of pace for you, but overall I wouldnt worry too much about everything. You'll be doing awesome and you will be appreciated by many
I have not been an active member of this community, but while I have I found you to be a very respectable persona that excel as being the face of nasl. Even before I was an active member I had heard a lot about you and had gained respect for you via them. As I try to integrate myself into the community that respect has grown ten fold and I wish you the best of luck. Although the gal stream is significant, I believe you have been very professional and honest in your apology. Keep up the amazing work.
I don't think this was called for at all, drama and jokes is a natural part of any gaming community, we do not gather here at TL (or any other sc2 site) to talk about super serious business, we gather here because we share a love for the game and the community. For example, the reason why so many people listen to SOTG every week is not because they want to here what Nony has to say about phoenix/voidray in pvz, it's because of the drama! The reason why the CombatEX vs Chill showmatch is so widely known is not because people wanted to know who the better player were, it was because of the drama and jokes!
You've got a lot of jobs now: progamer for EG, coach/caster/podcaster for gosucoaching.com, streamer for incontroltv, and caster/figurehead for NASL. Your usual behavior and personality, which I love, is great for everything except your job with the NASL. It's not only "not great" for the NASL -- it's a huge clash. The NASL has been trying to present itself as professional. So much so that, despite having no one who has ever run a major league before, they come out with a bunch of unprecedented rules for player accountability in order to compel their players to act professionally. And then while performing one of his other jobs, the main caster/figurehead of the NASL acts in a way that would presumably earn any NASL player a hefty fine or removal from the league.
So now I think the NASL ought to introduce a buffer between a player's first transgression and any tapping into the $250 deposit. Each player has the option to publicly post a heartfelt apology and promise to act better. The NASL must accept this apology and trust this promise. Only after a second transgression does a player have to face real consequences.
Yes, I'm joking folks. This was a tribute to classic incontrol -- I had to take a jab. I know you can do your job (all of them) excellently Geoff. GL. Brotosses forever.
I assure you the majority don't judge you for joshing on Kelly. You obviously like her and it was funny, in the same way people like you but make jokes about your origins as a bear-man, like Jinro but call him the Gorilla Terran. If she was offended, of course that's a different matter.
GSL thing is just an error of judgement, no biggie.
At the end of the day, I don't want ESPN, and I think that's true for a lot of eSports fans. There's nothing worse than the clinical, asinine sports TV in the mainstream. Keep it real
Bah, this entire thing was blown so far out of proportion, the only reason it did is because of the ridiculous sensationalism that goes over on at Reddit, there were almost 4000 listening into that 'restream', no one even made post on TL about it, but two days later, apparently iNcontroL is killing western e-sports!
Sad to see it come to this, props for actually taking the high road here and apologizing, completely with matbob though, dick move by Huko for doing what he did the way he did it, seems like the high road for him is a road less traveled.
GL with NASL, hope your stream doesn't completely change because of this.
You are well known as a master of trolling, why to change something that a lot of people loved? Also, I was watching live the gsl moment and it was really funny, more fun than the original stream with tasteless and milkies, if that it;s illegal and can not be replayed than I am sad.
Don't worry guys, I'm sure incontrol will keep his brand of sarcastic humor without alienating people/groups of people. Now that he is focused 100% on starcraft and nasl this announcement/apology can only mean good things for the future.
This is the reality of SC2, it's driven by the internet. Instead of media moguls locked away in their ivory towers we have community people interacting with fans to make the best possible experience for everyone. Obviously there are some kinks to work out, but I do believe incontrol is a fast learner and he'll try his best to make this work.
As for me, I can't wait to watch some nasl games, and I would hate to watch a nasl game only to hear him making snarky replies about haters or ragging on popular SC2 community people.
edit: the reddit hate is a little senseless. They don't have the luxury of TL-style bannings and it's a large community designed so popular opinions will rise to the top. I'm sure if TL didn't have around the clock mods the forums would be filled with incontrol drama here too. It'll blow over in a few days, and there will be new stuff to talk about.
It's hard to think of anyone that has been more involved in the community over the years and is better fit to take the role you're taking on right now, which is an important one indeed. I haven't always been cheering for incontrol the player however I will always cheer for you as a person in all of your endeavors and I wholeheartedly hope you and NASL will enjoy a lot of success in the future.
Having that said, you're a guy with opinions who's never been afraid to speak his mind and that's bound to spark a lot of rage. People on the internet can be sensitive as hell and will take any excuse to lash out against someone they don't happen to like. I don't think this is cause for you to change at all. Just be the guy you've been over the last decade and things are going to work out great.
Btw it's so fucking comforting knowing people like incontrol and gretorp are part of the decision making in a huuuge tournament like this. You just know there are going to be less fuck ups and problems when real pro's are in charge from the beginning.
On February 26 2011 07:14 Liquid`Tyler wrote: So now I think the NASL ought to introduce a buffer between a player's first transgression and any tapping into the $250 deposit. Each player has the option to publicly post a heartfelt apology and promise to act better. The NASL must accept this apology and trust this promise. Only after a second transgression does a player have to face real consequences.
This is a solid idea independent of anything iNcontroL did. While the accountability measures proposed do strike a nice balance, far less harsh than "if you use chat in game except to say gg you lose," having a buffer is simply more fair: in particular, since the intricacies of these rules--however easy it might be to summarize them as "just don't be a dick"--aren't going to be second nature to the participants at first, there are going to be some first time transgressions that were only barely intentional.
Man. I'm kinda upset that its really come to this, the man apologized. He is only a human being, we make mistakes. The fact that he is becoming one of the most prominent faces of Starcraft2, even E-Sports as a whole is rubbing some the wrong way is tough shit! Grow up children, the world is not a happy go-lucky place where everyone agrees, holds hands and sings kumbai-ah while nerds happily macro on SC2.
I personally think its refreshing to have a caster who ACTUALLY KNOWS THE GAME, all this ridiculous flaming and bullshit about TB and a simple mistake with a restream is just nonsense. To say you wont support the NASL because of some drama that was a simple miss-communication to start with and has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU WHAT SO EVER, is bad for the community as a whole. Being a the guy that says "Well ill just restream NASL now cause of iNc blahblahablah" just makes you a douche-bag, and if E-sports does not succeed in NA/EU you'll know you were a part of the reason. So just stop the hate and realize what a big deal this whole thing is.
Geoff, I love all the content you release into the community and the impact that you have on TL and SC2 is very real. Evidence of this is everywhere lol look at all the people talking about you! Just remember the vocal minority will always be louder then the quiet majority. Your casting with Gretorp will get better I'm sure as you guys both get comfortable with one another. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DONT CHANGE ON SoTG!! Seriously having you be the "Bill Mayer" on that show is such a refreshing aspect of the podcast. I always look forward to them and even stay up to catch them live now. I could probably say that I look forward to the cast each week more then any TV show or Hockey game (well maybe not every hockey game....)
You did ask for constructive criticism too! lol iNc buddy if your gonna be on TV do yourself up a bit man! lol some hair gel, and a jacket would have made you look like one sharp mofo. Look at your homeboys Tastosis. Those gentlemen always try to look awesome on air, I'm sure you and Andre can easily do that. Don't worry to much about haters man, your doing a lot of good for the community.
EDIT: TROLOLOL nony you actually had me for a second LOL thanks man
Just wanted to say that you do so much for the community iNcontroL, it's truly amazing. Sadly, being in the "spotlight" yields a weird amount of negative feedback first instead of positive (and constructive) feedback.
I hope the NASL shows your true nature in your dealings with sc2. Hopefully it's positive since you, along with so many others, do so much for this community, above and beyond the average sc2 player. Good luck.
The only bad thing you did was restreaming GSL, the rest all seemed to be in keeping with your "poke fun at everything" attitude. I mean fuck you've jested about Europeans since the dawn of time but suddenly you make fun of Kelly's accent and its WWIII.
I'm sure this is mostly a case of vocal minority rather than something more sinister.
You were only joking around, and whoever took it seriously and got actually upset about it is wrong! keep up the great work Geoff, I'm sure you are going to make an excellent caster and representer of NASL! also much respect for making this blog!.
I'm glad you're taking this very seriously, but I fear you may lose yourself in the process. I've loved listening to you. You're a hilarious guy. Don't lose that entirely to appease the very vocal minority who thrive on hate.
Please Geoff, don't let us down. A lot of us have been waiting YEARS for this to come along. Even the haters know this is a huge step forward for western E-Sports, so please, PLEASE don't let us down. You've taken the initiative, now it's time to take the responsibility that comes with such a monstrous task. A nation of nerds are behind you on this, make us proud!
On February 26 2011 07:28 Rokk wrote: I'm glad you're taking this very seriously, but I fear you may lose yourself in the process. I've loved listening to you. You're a hilarious guy. Don't lose that entirely to appease the very vocal minority who thrive on hate.
To be honest I don't think he could even if he tried. Try to imagine an extremely serious unfunny incontrol. Can you? Makes my brain hurt.
I agree that it's probably not a good idea for someone in your position to re-stream the GSL or whatever it was happened, but other than that, people need to lighten up, and I don't see the need to try and alter your personality or anything just because you're going to be somewhat of a figurehead of the NASL. You got to your current position by being the way you are, exactly the way you are. Not by being somebody else more "politically correct" or whatever you want to call it. So other than the little GSL mishap, please don't change a single other thing in the slightest. Otherwise you're doing somewhat of a disservice to yourself, and all of the people that have supported you being you and enjoyed listening to you be yourself.
Not trying to be dramatic or something, but people seriously just need to lighten up.
On February 26 2011 06:53 Djagulingu wrote: GSL Restreaming was good, Kelly imitation was better. I don't know why people are going over Geoff for this. Stop this hatin. He's better than all of his haters combined. Make a room for the big dawg.
Well, he did other things.
One being asking for a restream of GSL and defending it with the fact he couldn't find the big GO LIVE button at the top of the GOM website.
When he has said he does in fact have a GOM account and has used it before, he somehow didn't also see the big Standard Quality button next to the High Quality button, both being the same size and literally next to each other.
Which he apologized for in the same post he said he couldn't find the Go Live button. He didn't apologize for this in this blog thread though, so most people might not have seen it because they didn't want to walk through the broken glass flooring that was the other thread.
Or being condescending while being a mod, calling someone a "random gaming forum poster" instead of just temp banning for back talking a mod. Calling someone a "random gaming forum poster" on a website you mod kinda makes it looks like you feel superior to everyone that doesn't have mod status...right or not, this wasn't very professional.
On February 26 2011 07:14 Liquid`Tyler wrote: Yes, I'm joking folks. This was a tribute to classic incontrol -- I had to take a jab. I know you can do your job (all of them) excellently Geoff. GL. Brotosses forever.
On February 15 2011 05:37 Liquid`Tyler (in a different blog post) wrote: BABY YOU'RE A FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIREWORK COME ON LET YOUR COOOOOOOOLORS BURST
I think those two quotes pretty much sum up everything that needs to be said in this thread.
I agree with a lot of the people in this thread. People blew this whole thing completely out of proportion. One of the reasons I'm a big fan of yours iNcontroL is because you're such a funny person as well as one who's very intelligent about the game, it makes you seem more human. I've spent many hours watching your stream (I don't even play protoss) and have always been thoroughly entertained.
That said, I understand if you want to be more professional about things. I would say that if you want to make your humor more "professional," don't necessarily reduce the amount of jokes/goofing around, but maybe make them less personal. It's fine to poke fun at people, but it was when you sustained it for so long that a lot of the people in the community reacted negatively.
I'll be at PAX east so I hope to meet you in person, otherwise best of luck with NASL and keep up the awesome work!
Foreigners have been forever trying to be recognised in the starcraft world, and now that they are, for the caster and one of the main guys involved with the NASL to make fun of someone with a "foreign" accent is a gross error in judgement. Restreaming the GSL (well he wasn't really ) is a minor thing, and I'm sure a lot of people have had to use restreams at some point due to Gom bugging out at random. He's apologised, so everything's cool, everyone should just move past it.
I applaud your efforts at improving your image. I would like to offer a few suggestions on improvements to your image.
It is great that you can admit mistakes and apologize for them. It is important as a spokesperson to recognize the image you create as it represents more than just yourself.
In my observation, I find that you have a lot of self confidence and pride in your abilities and actions. This confidence and pride borders on arrogance and hubris, which leads to a perception of your actions as demeaning and belittling of others. This is amplified when you are commenting on others. A lot of the material you have expressed about others feel like an attack on the person not their action or decision. When you address topics concerning yourself there is an impression of self-righteousness disproportionate to your position and influence. Improvement on your articulation of your opinions would also dismiss the air of self-importance. In general you come off as crude, brutish, and pompous which I feel does not present a good image of the community, or your achievements. I would like to see you change the way you present yourself and opinions, not necessarily the person you are.
I believe you are generally compassionate and emphatic to the community. But if you want to be a spokesperson you need to put more thought into your actions and comments. With refinement I believe you can project a strong image of the Starcraft community to the world.
You are awesome. You've been awesome for a long time, and that's because of your personality.
Not everyone will like you, and that's a fact. These are the same people who will continue to not like you regardless of how you act.
These recent events (well, really only one event) were a setback, but should not be cause for you to limit your exposure or change your personality. You messed up with one thing - the Huko banning (but that guy's a douche anyway, so that's hardly even a big deal, in my eyes). That was rectified and you have apologized, and that is as far as it needs to go.
Keep doing what you do - it's important for your success, in my opinion, that you don't try to limit your exposure outside of NASL or put on a boring face. You are good at what you do and should not view your personality as a limitation.
Hey man, don't stress too much over this. Everyone makes mistakes, and you're obviously handling them in the right way. This whole thing reminds me of a politician caught in a scandal, when it totally shouldn't. Everyone here goes crazy over the smallest things, and they expect every opinion to be politically correct. Make sure you don't try to censor yourself, I appreciate people who aren't afraid to speak their mind/be controversial. Makes things exciting. And I also appreciate what your doing for the community, keep it up!
I completely understand where the problems with kelly arose from knowing your personality and to me that's a simple growing pain that a man of your talents will easily learn from and overcome.
With that said, the GSL restream conflict was a tremendously unprofessional move. A person in your position, who is attempting to make the US'es largest streamed sc2 league, should not ever be seen stealing his competitions similar plan. It's unethical and gives you no arguing room when your future nasl viewers begin to do the same thing. You really should have known this without being told otherwise and your 'i stopped when told' excuse is asanine and beside the point.
What Hugo was doing was illegal, there are no arguments there. However, I really don't think the posters who directed you to him did it with the knowledge that you were going to get him banned from jtv and TL. You returned their helpfulness by turning them into snitches. You should have never been asking for a restream in the first place and your viewers paid the price for it.
I can be a very judgemental person so i'm sorry if this came out overly harsh, but that's just how i feel after reading about the situation. Despite this, i'll still be a big fan of your stream and i look forward to the amazing nasl that i know you'll create.
the important thing is to learn from your mistakes and apply them to yourself. keep up the good work, don't let this slip up bring you down too much; i'll always be a fan of you and your humor
As far as the restreaming thing goes ... that was on you, buddy. It doesn't matter who is bitching about this (I'd say that your reasoning for banning Huko was pretty much accurate), that was just a dumb move on your part. But you accepted that and apologized, and I say everybody deserves a mulligan – it's not like you're the only one who makes mistakes.
When it comes to you joking around ... don't stop with that It's sad to see people getting outraged over your sense of humour. You might need to clarify (possibly over and over again – this is the internet, after all) that your jokes on SotG and your stream are not to be taken too seriously. I've always seen what you do as similar to a comedy roast or the stuff Ricky Gervais does at the Golden Globes etc. There is a possibility that the jokes might be misconstrued as mean-spirited or even hurtful, but I don't see that as a valid reason to abandon them. You can't please everyone ... if you go for a more serious approach, there will be whining about how things used to be better when you were "still funny", just as there is whining when you go for the joke.
In the end you will be the one who has to make the decision here, but let me suggest that you continue to use SotG and your stream as outlets for your personality and that you dial it back as needed when it comes to the NASL. Count on the maturity and open-mindedness of the of your audience and don't even try to please everyone, that's never going to happen. Try not to get too frustrated over this, and don't let a vocal minority run things.
Actually I think everybody can forgive these small mistakes, although restreaming GSL (as normal as illegal stuff like this seems nowadays) was pretty stupid. But seriously, "I am the face of a movement" sounds so arrogant... think what Shanlan wrote hits the nail on the head...
Geoff... InControl I am a huge supporter I am in the area if you ever need help or just want to hang out hit me up we have pm'd a bit and you know my situation so lets do this! I got your back!
"I am no longer the joking or "douchy" persona on a podcast"
This is good. I have a feeling that the reason everyone was so overly critical of you was because the jokes that you said were mean and untrue. All you said was that it "just a joke" or "deal with it"; people couldn't actually show you how it felt to be on the recieving end of all these "jokes".
However, when NASL.tv came out, you started getting self concious. Believe it or not, the internet feels for internets victims. People found a chink in your armor and tried to tear through it. You didn't care about other people, after all, so why should they.
I 100% support you know. Without the slightly "douchy" side of you, you are a really cool guy, totally worthy of being a friend to the internet in general, like Day[9], or Artosis.
I've had a lesson with iNcontroL once and nothing made me doubt his professionalism and seriousness. I still believe he is ideal for the figurehead of the NASL, despite recent events. I found it a bit surprising when he said that he really does care what people think about him since he just shrugs off trolls most of the time, and I find that reassuring because if I were in that position it would bug me on some level too.
It's a bit discouraging that people have a hard time differentiating between the professional side and fun, joking side. I sincerely hope, to nearly the point of begging, that iNcontroL remains the exact same, but while exercising a bit more professional discretion (because re-streaming GSL was clearly wrong). State of the Game, of all things, is supposed to be a more laid back, behind scenes forum for pros to discuss the game, and if people find it too controversial or offensive then they really aren't the target demographic anyways.
I hope iNcontroL reads at least some of these posts to know that the community is still behind him, and I suspect by the time that the NASL starts this will be a distant memory in the past.
TL;DR Stay the same iNcontroL, don't ruin SotG, and just show some discretion on serious e-sports issues
To all the people saying "Don't ever change!" I have to just shake my head. Cause he should change. All of this drama, whether with Kelly or TB or the restreaming or whatever comes from him shooting his mouth off and exercising poor judgement just for a cheap laugh or cause he can't find the massive "Go Live" button on the Gom site. He wants to do this thing that's really going to help knit together the Western SC2, but he creates this drama. You can argue about whether people need to be more thick-skinned or whatever (although imo some of his jokes are straight-up racist, and that's not cool) but all you get out that joke is a couple lulz and then this massive pile of drama that doesn't help anybody.
On February 26 2011 08:09 ImHuko wrote: You guys should read about what actually happened so you can understand how big this apology is. Mocking kelly was only some of what happened.
Mocking kelly was only part of what happened, but the rest was ridiculous and insignificant to the point that it is ridiculous to have blown up so much. Get off your high horse and turn off the condescending attitude towards Geoff. He has already shown that he is the bigger man in every aspect of the phrase.
Bah, ignore the peons. You can't please everyone all the time, better to please some of the people most of the time. The personality you have is what got you this far, better to stick with that then be someone you're not for people who will never be happy anyway.
LOL, cool story bro. Why just not be a complete sarcastic cunt in the first place? Starcraft players and their egos...You've obviously been hanging around Idra too much. Where is day[9] when you need a face for Esports?
Good to see a bigger and better Incontrol coming out of this. Geoff, you are one of the best and brightest in this community, and i hope that by the end of this, the very best version of you rises to the top.
If we want to be serious about esports, and I believe we do, there's a lot of personal sacrifice that has to go on so the "on screen" or public image is a certain way. It's just showbusiness. thanks for the hard work and look forward to seeing great things from the NASL.
<3 you InC, keep streaming for us and continue to provide us with your amazing play and oh so melodic metal/taste in music. I love watching you stream to improve my own game play from your own play or your coaching sessions that you broadcast and to watch and enjoy for your love of SC2. Everyone makes mistakes and you are not alone, keep at what you're doing and don't let it get to you.
so when you insult everyone its fine but when you get a hard time you make a huge blog post and have it spotlighted, this tournie hasn't even started yet, and it's an invitational, doesn't seem like the huuuuuuge deal you make it out to be.
InControl, honestly you're one of my top 3 favorite community personalities, along with Tyler and Day[9]. The only flaw I see with anything that you need to change personality-wise is not the fact that you make fun of people and criticize them strongly, but the fact that you don't let others do the same without getting angry. Please, do not withdrawal from everything non-NASL related, I really enjoy your stream along with some other things you do.
On February 26 2011 04:59 iNcontroL wrote: I promise you I will not be boring. I promise this doesn't mean I stop joking around entirely. But what it does mean is I will reduce my community exposure outside of the NASL.
That change is up to you the community. I want to hear what people think. I am a cohost of the podcast "State of the Game" and I have a stream on Justin.tv where I joke around a lot. I also post actively on TL and I read all other forums (reddit as well... )
Dude ... what?!?!
All these things you're already doing got you the NASL job in the first place.
Sure, you've made mistakes, but we all do. Most of them were political. And as you grow and mature as a caster/commentator, you'll learn the fine art of and being the best version of yourself, while learning when and where to pick your battles.
Don't give up anything, man. Your'e great 85-90% of the time. You're a work in progress like everyone else. And don't let people beat up on you too much, including yourself.
I love your stream and hearing you on SotG Incontrol. However, I have to agree that if you want to be a face of western e-sports growth, you need to have a bit of a filter on the things you say/do. That said, one of my favorite things about e-sports is that everyone feels so accessible and the players feel like real people.
I think what kind of hit me (although I haven't been to vocal about in on TL, more on screddit) is that by being the front man of the NASL you had basically bought yourself into the casting scene. The 400k in prize money makes NASL THE tourney, and since you are the caster you are THE caster.
What rubbed me as wrong about this is you had never really played that role before. Sure you had casted the GCPL, but I still saw you as the joker of the community - the troll who was a mod, the guy who did impressions of people and made fun of Artosis (please don't stop doing that btw). And now, suddenly, I wake up and the NASL is here, suddenly the biggest tourney in the NA scene, and your casting it - which bring about a conflict.
You can't be the joker/troll on TL and StotG and the head man of NA eSports at the same time, which means one of those rolls is going to suffer. And that's what's upset me. Clearly you've chosen the NASL (power to you, best of luck, godspeed, etc etc) but I'm going to miss the other have of iNcontroL who was out of control (get it, it's punny).
Anyway, your life, your choice. But you can't have both.
The things you're apologizing for really weren't that bad. (You only restreamed GSL once, without realizing it was illegal, anyway. And as soon as you got the PM from a justin admin, you said "oh, my bad, I won't be doing that again.") And the mocking of kelly seemed to be all in good fun. That doesn't mean they were ok for you to be doing, per se, but I highly doubt anybody was genuinely bothered by any of that. They were just being petty because that's the way people are sometimes.
Nonetheless, you apologizing for them is by no means a mistake. What would be a mistake, in my opinion, is saying "I'm a loose cannon, I've gotta tone it down." Like some others have said, just be yourself. And of course, recognize that there's a time and a place for everything, and when you're talking about NASL or doing casts or what have you, that's the only real time you need to put on your serious face.
What you've been doing up to this point is just fine.
On February 26 2011 04:59 iNcontroL wrote: I promise you I will not be boring. I promise this doesn't mean I stop joking around entirely. But what it does mean is I will reduce my community exposure outside of the NASL.
don't do this. you may have made a small mistake, but you learned from it. don't change your persona or exposure, you are good for the community.
just because some 12 year olds on reddit got butt hurt doesnt mean you have to drastically change your involvement
Just remember that the average person does not pay attention to any drama that you have caused and most likely does not care either. No matter what you say you will offend someone so get used to that. That is the life of a public figure. You have to distance yourself from angry nerd comments and realize that the majority are not angry nerds.
On February 26 2011 08:26 Gentleman7 wrote: Geoff,
I think what kind of hit me (although I haven't been to vocal about in on TL, more on screddit) is that by being the front man of the NASL you had basically bought yourself into the casting scene. The 400k in prize money makes NASL THE tourney, and since you are the caster you are THE caster.
What rubbed me as wrong about this is you had never really played that role before. Sure you had casted the GCPL, but I still saw you as the joker of the community - the troll who was a mod, the guy who did impressions of people and made fun of Artosis (please don't stop doing that btw). And now, suddenly, I wake up and the NASL is here, suddenly the biggest tourney in the NA scene, and your casting it - which bring about a conflict.
You can't be the joker/troll on TL and StotG and the head man of NA eSports at the same time, which means one of those rolls is going to suffer. And that's what's upset me. Clearly you've chosen the NASL (power to you, best of luck, godspeed, etc etc) but I'm going to miss the other have of iNcontroL who was out of control (get it, it's punny).
Anyway, your life, your choice. But you can't have both.
glhf ~
Why can't he do both. Have you seen iNc when he is in his professional roles? He is extremely "professional", for lack of a better word, during public events, and especially in his business ventures like coaching. Many casters play dual roles in front of the official cameras and off of it. For example: day9, jp, wheat, tasteless, artosis.
Just don't get boring and keep being you, in a toned version and you will be loved ^^ tbh my biggest concern is that no more Artosis jokes and that kinda fun in sotg and in casts x)
Otherwise I think you will do great. You aren't the best caster around yet but you're getting a lot better so I think you will do fine in NASL.
Restreaming GSL and mocking other casters was stupid, but we all do stupid things. You manned up, owned your mistakes without excuse, and apologized for them. No trolling from me. Unlike some others here, I don't think being a caster or "front-man" means you aren't entitled to screw up sometimes.
You are under a brighter spotlight now and your mistakes go through a magnifying glass. There's nothing that can be done to change that, its the price of the path you have chosen. But don't think that means that the community no longer likes or respects you. You're a great player and caster and a benefit to the game.
On February 26 2011 08:09 ImHuko wrote: You guys should read about what actually happened so you can understand how big this apology is. Mocking kelly was only some of what happened.
Mocking kelly was only part of what happened, but the rest was ridiculous and insignificant to the point that it is ridiculous to have blown up so much. Get off your high horse and turn off the condescending attitude towards Geoff. He has already shown that he is the bigger man in every aspect of the phrase.
Looking for a restream of GOMTV, while also being the face of NASL, isn't really insignificant. What kind of message does it send to people when you watch restreams of tournaments but then (as i'm sure incontrol would agree) not wanting people to restream your own tournament?
Incontrol did things, and he apologized, you don't need to act like nothing happened.
On February 26 2011 08:09 ImHuko wrote: You guys should read about what actually happened so you can understand how big this apology is. Mocking kelly was only some of what happened.
Mocking kelly was only part of what happened, but the rest was ridiculous and insignificant to the point that it is ridiculous to have blown up so much. Get off your high horse and turn off the condescending attitude towards Geoff. He has already shown that he is the bigger man in every aspect of the phrase.
Looking for a restream of GOMTV, while also being the face of NASL, isn't really insignificant. What kind of message does it send to people when you watch restreams of tournaments but then (as i'm sure incontrol would agree) not wanting people to restream your own tournament?
Incontrol did things, and he apologized, you don't need to act like nothing happened.
No, it really is insignificant, considering that he stated that after being contacted by a jtv admin who told him he was breaking the rules, he stopped. Not to mention that he owns a gomtv premium account.
iNcontrol, you're going to make mistakes here and there. People will get upset. The fact that you can stand up and say that you've done something wrong without trying to make up an excuse or hide behind some BS is what will make you a great leader in eSports. It shows that you're not a huge ego. You care about people's opinions. I think the best quality in a leader is to be able to acknowledge a problem and be able to fix it. If you can do that, which you're doing right now, you'll be fine.
I love your personality. I get it. I know most of the time you're not looking to crap talk on a person and that you're friends with a lot of the people you make fun of. Other people, when their fanboyism gets in the way will jump on you for that because they think you mean harm. They have the best intentions and so do you. I guess it's easier to change yourself than to get everyone else to understand, but remember what makes people hate you is the same thing that makes other people love you. While I support your decision to change the way to conduct yourself a little bit, remember that it will get to a point where you cant make everyone happy. Just do the best job that you can and be the best person that you can. Everything else will fall into place.
Remember, even the people who criticize you may love you. I hope I do end up meeting you at an event or something because you seem like a pretty chill and comfortable guy who genuinely appreciates the support and criticism he gets from the community
Good Luck iNcontrol and make eSports happen in the west =)
PS. sad to see you not a banling anymore. I suppose you may just not have the time anymore, but I hope this isn't one of the steps you're taking to reduce your community exposure but I guess I understand since it is one of the simplest ways. It was probably a big decision too.
On February 26 2011 08:09 ImHuko wrote: You guys should read about what actually happened so you can understand how big this apology is. Mocking kelly was only some of what happened.
Mocking kelly was only part of what happened, but the rest was ridiculous and insignificant to the point that it is ridiculous to have blown up so much. Get off your high horse and turn off the condescending attitude towards Geoff. He has already shown that he is the bigger man in every aspect of the phrase.
Looking for a restream of GOMTV, while also being the face of NASL, isn't really insignificant. What kind of message does it send to people when you watch restreams of tournaments but then (as i'm sure incontrol would agree) not wanting people to restream your own tournament?
Incontrol did things, and he apologized, you don't need to act like nothing happened.
No, it really is insignificant, considering that he stated that after being contacted by a jtv admin who told him he was breaking the rules, he stopped. Not to mention that he owns a gomtv premium account.
You are talking about a different thing. That was when Incontrol was not even really restreaming, like, half of the video was being shown for 8 minutes. The next day Incontrol asked for a restream of GSL on his own stream.
A man is only a Man when he can openly admit to others that he was wrong and try to amend that so what can I say besides good luck and I hope to see you doing great things in the future. Gogo InControl!
NOooooooooooo. Haters gonna hate. Tis a sad day when the butthurt denizens of the internet get all offended when you harmlessly poke fun at something and you are forced to meet their whiny demands, lest they call the "you hurt my feelings" police on you. I for one am a big fan of your sense of humor, and I really hope it can exist in the world of esports that you're trying to hoist up onto your back like a modern-day nerd Atlas.
I think you need to find a happy medium, you are a fun person to listen to but you do step over the line much more than you should in the sense that somethings you just don't do (the kelly thing) .
Keeping a sarcastic tone and witty persona is very important just remember that some lines its better just not cross. You can sure and some will love you for it but a lot of people will hate you for it..
Thats my 2 cents, I think you will do a great job.
On February 26 2011 08:09 ImHuko wrote: You guys should read about what actually happened so you can understand how big this apology is. Mocking kelly was only some of what happened.
Mocking kelly was only part of what happened, but the rest was ridiculous and insignificant to the point that it is ridiculous to have blown up so much. Get off your high horse and turn off the condescending attitude towards Geoff. He has already shown that he is the bigger man in every aspect of the phrase.
Looking for a restream of GOMTV, while also being the face of NASL, isn't really insignificant. What kind of message does it send to people when you watch restreams of tournaments but then (as i'm sure incontrol would agree) not wanting people to restream your own tournament?
Incontrol did things, and he apologized, you don't need to act like nothing happened.
No, it really is insignificant, considering that he stated that after being contacted by a jtv admin who told him he was breaking the rules, he stopped. Not to mention that he owns a gomtv premium account.
You are talking about a different thing. That was when Incontrol was not even really restreaming, like, half of the video was being shown for 8 minutes. The next day Incontrol asked for a restream of GSL on his own stream.
I read your earlier post when you posted it, thank you. It was full of misrepresentation and sensationalization. In fact, the way that you interpret iNc's statements are so dramatic that I almost have to assume that they are intentional misinterpretation.
I honestly find it ridiculous that you are capitulating to people who get offended over things so remarkably banal and small because you want to live up to some bizarre ideal of what people expect the perfect caster/player/whatever buzzword we're using today that frankly doesn't exist.
I can only speak for myself but the entire reason I like you is because you're honest and confident about your opinions and even seeing you on the various streamed coaching sessions where you're trying to be professional, it comes off as remarkably unnatural.
Yeah sure the GSL thing was dumb, but don't lump actual copyright infringement with offending Kellymilkies by doing an impression of her. She should not be offended, you didn't insult her personally and were far too apologetic immediately after, you made fun of her accent because it's ridiculous, it's up to her to realise it and either be self deprecating about it or try and improve it, it's not up to you to apologise for an innocuous impression.
In short: Haters gonna hate, keeps it real Geoffy R.
On February 26 2011 08:09 ImHuko wrote: You guys should read about what actually happened so you can understand how big this apology is. Mocking kelly was only some of what happened.
Mocking kelly was only part of what happened, but the rest was ridiculous and insignificant to the point that it is ridiculous to have blown up so much. Get off your high horse and turn off the condescending attitude towards Geoff. He has already shown that he is the bigger man in every aspect of the phrase.
Looking for a restream of GOMTV, while also being the face of NASL, isn't really insignificant. What kind of message does it send to people when you watch restreams of tournaments but then (as i'm sure incontrol would agree) not wanting people to restream your own tournament?
Incontrol did things, and he apologized, you don't need to act like nothing happened.
No, it really is insignificant, considering that he stated that after being contacted by a jtv admin who told him he was breaking the rules, he stopped. Not to mention that he owns a gomtv premium account.
You are talking about a different thing. That was when Incontrol was not even really restreaming, like, half of the video was being shown for 8 minutes. The next day Incontrol asked for a restream of GSL on his own stream.
I read your earlier post when you posted it, thank you. It was full of misrepresentation and sensationalization. In fact, the way that you interpret iNc's statements are so dramatic that I almost have to assume that they are intentional misinterpretation.
I'm not trying to misinterpret anything. Go look at the posts I linked to, just look at them, he says he did these things and he even apologized.
On February 26 2011 08:26 Gentleman7 wrote: Geoff,
I think what kind of hit me (although I haven't been to vocal about in on TL, more on screddit) is that by being the front man of the NASL you had basically bought yourself into the casting scene. The 400k in prize money makes NASL THE tourney, and since you are the caster you are THE caster.
What rubbed me as wrong about this is you had never really played that role before. Sure you had casted the GCPL, but I still saw you as the joker of the community - the troll who was a mod, the guy who did impressions of people and made fun of Artosis (please don't stop doing that btw). And now, suddenly, I wake up and the NASL is here, suddenly the biggest tourney in the NA scene, and your casting it - which bring about a conflict.
You can't be the joker/troll on TL and StotG and the head man of NA eSports at the same time, which means one of those rolls is going to suffer. And that's what's upset me. Clearly you've chosen the NASL (power to you, best of luck, godspeed, etc etc) but I'm going to miss the other have of iNcontroL who was out of control (get it, it's punny).
Anyway, your life, your choice. But you can't have both.
glhf ~
I wish people wouldn't all think that Geoff cannot be funny and simultaneously be the frontman of NASL. Long in the past, if you told people iNcontroL would one day be the head of a $400,000 Starcraft tournament, people would have shit their pants and told you to fuck off, but not because they didn't think his jokes weren't politically correct enough. To me, Geoff and his attitude are pure Starcraft. But to everyone else, I guess not.
I know that the restream was wrong but it might have been one of the funniest things I've ever seen. I just which that people were not so sensitive when I, after listening to a lot of your cast/ SOTG etc. It is obvious that none of what you did had any malicious intent behind it. wish you the best with EG and the NASL. iNcontrol fighting!!
Geoff, as a member of the community i REALLY enjoy your joking personality, your stream, and the content you give to us, be it by streaming, growing the scene, or joking around. But if you think that you need to be less of a joker because the community is repressing that, then so be it.
But know that it does not reflect the oppinion of everyone, as i personally wouldn't want you to be less of a joker and interact with the community less.
Good luck to you and i hope you are succsessful with whatever you chose to be your "behavior".
I personally don't think you should ever tone it down as far as joking goes, (and even calling people out). But If the community is going to react poorly, then I appreciate you being the bigger man.
What you are doing here Geoff shows a ridiculous amount of character. And we all thank you for it. You are really the perfect guy for the job. Keep it up.
i really don't see what incontrol has to apologize for honestly. I can see why in the future though that he will have to take a more professional approach to things now that he kind of speaks for a entire organization. People need to man up. IncontroL says 1 thing and you got 1,000 people complaining because they are just jealous of his success not mad at something he said.
Just like Kelly. No body really cared about her ascent untill she started casting GSL. Now people have it as a highlight of their argument.
Also. Fuck reddit, its just full of trolls that got banned from tl (Probably a handful of them were banned by incontrol).
On February 26 2011 08:09 ImHuko wrote: You guys should read about what actually happened so you can understand how big this apology is. Mocking kelly was only some of what happened.
Mocking kelly was only part of what happened, but the rest was ridiculous and insignificant to the point that it is ridiculous to have blown up so much. Get off your high horse and turn off the condescending attitude towards Geoff. He has already shown that he is the bigger man in every aspect of the phrase.
Looking for a restream of GOMTV, while also being the face of NASL, isn't really insignificant. What kind of message does it send to people when you watch restreams of tournaments but then (as i'm sure incontrol would agree) not wanting people to restream your own tournament?
Incontrol did things, and he apologized, you don't need to act like nothing happened.
No, it really is insignificant, considering that he stated that after being contacted by a jtv admin who told him he was breaking the rules, he stopped. Not to mention that he owns a gomtv premium account.
You are talking about a different thing. That was when Incontrol was not even really restreaming, like, half of the video was being shown for 8 minutes. The next day Incontrol asked for a restream of GSL on his own stream.
I read your earlier post when you posted it, thank you. It was full of misrepresentation and sensationalization. In fact, the way that you interpret iNc's statements are so dramatic that I almost have to assume that they are intentional misinterpretation.
I'm not trying to misinterpret anything. Go look at the posts I linked to, just look at them, he says he did these things and he even apologized.
I read all those posts when inc first posted them. And again when you linked them to compare. The claims you make about what he said are completely off-base, and your post is basically you shoving words in his mouth, then linking his post, which says nothing of the kind. You may not be trying to misinterpret anything, but you are definitely succeeding.
Geoff, I've always been a huge fan, Love the personality you bring to everything. I'm really glad to hear this from you, owning up to something you did. While you may not care what some random person on the internet thinks, I know its not easy owning up to something you did. Good for you.
All i can ask is please don't go too far with the "professionalism". Obviously as the face of a new league like NASL, you need to act as such. However, what sets you apart from a lot of the SC2 pros is your joking around, and poking a little fun at people, and things of the like. I really hope you dont get rid of that entirely.
As you said you would love to meet each and every one of us, I hope you will be at the MLG in Columbus (the only pro tournament easily accessible for us Michiganders), so I can say hi in person.
I wish you the best of luck with everything, and am eagerly awaiting the start of NASL!
The only thing people can rip on you for is re-streaming/watching re-streams of the GSL, however, nearly EVERYONE aware of GSL re-streams have or will take part in watching them sooner or later. No one that will become a public figure in the SC2 community will not be guilty of this, the proof will just be harder to find. Job well done so far.
My suggestions/expectations:
Obviously swearing/cursing whatever you want to call it will need to be brought down to national TV levels, can't have "OH MY GOD LOOK AT ALL THE FUCKING BANELINGS!" in the cast or "He's a fucking idiot." in interviews (unless you guys are already planning on bleeping? idk).
Suggestion: - At a certain level of all professional sports there is a 'deposit' like you have, however I feel $250 is too small a deposit. I hope that if/when NASL surpasses it's first few seasons that this dollar figure will be raised and the penalty be raised as well. This is a good starting point but $250 really isn't much money and players that are much more well off may shrug off the deposit as a joke. I have seen it happen in lower levels of pro sports and don't want it to happen in the NASL, especially in the early stages. The idea is NEEDED to maintain a professional atmosphere but the penalty, I feel, isn't enough. I am not a rich man and If I was a scumbag that thought the world revolved around me the $50 penalty per infraction wouldn't come close to making me flinch.
Expectations: - As much as you (iNControl) and the other casters love playing the game at a competitive level I hope/expect that once the league takes off and more top end players start playing in the NASL that yourself and the other casters discontinue playing in the league. I don't mean this in a malicious way whatsoever but I feel that this will take away from the experience.
This currently makes perfect sense that you (the casters) would take part in this tournament, but eventually there will be enough solid players playing in the NASL that you stepping down would allow for more talent to shine. Other professional sports do not have casters/announcers playing in games than jumping back into the booth to cast the next few weeks, other than special guests that usually have free time because they/their teams get knocked out of the playoffs.
Currently, as much as I enjoy your play and the other casters/players, I feel this is the only "unprofessional" thing I have seen in the league thus far. It is 100% unavoidable at the moment which is why It isn't a big deal but I feel if/when the league gets bigger and more popular that having 100% dedicated casters will be much more beneficial to new fans so they have something familiar to come back to each time and for long time fans that enjoy the iNControl/X combination. Having guest player hosts would be great once this time comes as well to cast along side you and whoever else is casting that night. ________________
Great job this far, separating yourself from the community = no
I would make a "lol haters r xxxx" statement but I think everyone knows they are just idiots calling the kettle black.
dude, keep on keeping on! I personally love your casts, shows and all the streams and coaching you do. Everyone fucks up and everyone does dumb shit but that doesn't mean you need to stop all together.
Please just pick up and carry on with ALL the things you have been doing. It would be a sad day for SC2 if you slowed down or checked yourself in the slightest.
I'd say I would be one of your critics (though I havent felt the need to write something officially about it, since others have done more than enough of that).
On February 26 2011 04:59 iNcontroL wrote: I love this game. I love this community. I am enveloped by my passion for all things sc2.
All your "fanboys" and "haters" feel this way (well I'd say at least - random statistic - 90%). We all love the game. We all love the community. We all want that "esports" becomes big. I think that's the main point all sides can agree on. We have the "same" passion and want the same results.
Now - you're a bit different. You are also fucking brave. Yes, I as a critic admit that you are one of the brave guys - like all "progamers", since you sacrifice the "normal" live. I personally am not brave enough to take the risk to be involved in esports at a professional level. I will study, get a degree & will have a "normal" job. I will hopefully live a "normal" live.
But I hope some brave guy succeeds and makes esports big. Though since we're all mature people & have different experiences with society/live we all think "we know it". That makes us similiar again (be it the haters, brave ones, fanboys).
So some of us think that the "easy" "casual" "flammatory" style you have shown until now might not be the professional way and it might hinder the development of what we all want to succeed.
So to your (I think the major) question:
On February 26 2011 04:59 iNcontroL wrote: That change is up to you the community. I want to hear what people think. I am a cohost of the podcast "State of the Game" and I have a stream on Justin.tv where I joke around a lot. I also post actively on TL and I read all other forums (reddit as well... )
Do what you think is right. But please continue to read the forums (be it TL / reddit). And if somebody "hates" you - sleep one night and read the "hate" post again. Probably the guy who wrote the hate post loves the game as well and wants it to succeed - and maybe he has a point? I dont say that everyone who criticizes has a point - but there might be some guys who do. Just be a bit less "compulsive" (dont know if that is the right term^^) and think "Those guys who criticize me are not only haters/trolls - they might have a point".
If in doubt, just ask a "neutral" friend (I know all friends are kinda biased). And of coure you should ignore the "olololol you neeed to steeep down from nasl" posts. Those people are in the 10%
As a zerg player, i still love ya incontrol. Be yourself and enjoy it. And remember dont get angry over the insult or whatever, but see if it is true or not and react if you have to. Best of luck!
Honestly when I heard that InControl was going to be at the helm of NASL as far as public relations, I was very worried about the image that he produces.
What we have here is a chance to make a breakthrough in E-Sports history, and despite some of the antics I enjoy on SotG periodically, the fact that InControl speaks too critically about people and etc. made me cringe when I heard of his role in NASL. Despite the fact already thousands of people listen to SotG already and the controversy that frequently arises by what InControl says, I can only imagine what kind of backlash it can concoct when it becomes a much greater audience.
I was somewhat relieved when this post came out because in order to promote E-Sports Onto the next stage, professionalism needs to exist whether you like it or not. The people shouting, "don't change at all! I LIKE it when you shit on ppl!" don't quite get what public image means.
Talk to Day[9]. And I do realize your (Geoff) dislike of being compared to him, but what I mean is learn from his experiences and stances on being a more prominent figure in E-Sports. You can have your own styles and tendencies that are unique to each person, but there is a very basic level of professionalism which is grasped by all the grea commentators and hosts we have in E-Sports today and is something you will also have to realize in order to promote NASL in the manner it wants.
iNcontrol I look forward to seeing you be the face of NASL and of course wish you well in it and all of your future endeavors. I even bought you a present that I'll give you at MLG! =)
Just be you man, haters gonna hate. If anybody was to head and run NASL, it'd be you. Don't even acknowledge the haters because they will always be there.
I'm moving to LA in a year and I'll be there to wish you the best personally.
haters gonna hate. that best summurizes a good chunk of the tl member base unforuntely. you've contributed a huge part to this community, and that far outshines any mistakes you may have made (we all fuck up sometimes). i truly hope that the nasl kicks off and begins a new era for western esports. just a side note, did you give up your staff position? Or am i missing something here?
I can't believe the amount of people who give Geoff shit for the slightest infraction or inappropriate yet obviously sarcastic remark. Sure the gsl thing was wrong, but he shouldn't have to apologize for anything else. People just need to chill the fuck out.
The people blowing his comments out of proportion about topics such as Kelly and Select are ruining the entertainment value of sotg, his streaming, and the nasl. There shouldn't have to be censorship because a bunch of immature trolls see an opportunity to create drama and pounce on it.
Please Geoff, don't let them ruin it for everyone.
On February 26 2011 08:09 ImHuko wrote: You guys should read about what actually happened so you can understand how big this apology is. Mocking kelly was only some of what happened.
Mocking kelly was only part of what happened, but the rest was ridiculous and insignificant to the point that it is ridiculous to have blown up so much. Get off your high horse and turn off the condescending attitude towards Geoff. He has already shown that he is the bigger man in every aspect of the phrase.
Looking for a restream of GOMTV, while also being the face of NASL, isn't really insignificant. What kind of message does it send to people when you watch restreams of tournaments but then (as i'm sure incontrol would agree) not wanting people to restream your own tournament?
Incontrol did things, and he apologized, you don't need to act like nothing happened.
No, it really is insignificant, considering that he stated that after being contacted by a jtv admin who told him he was breaking the rules, he stopped. Not to mention that he owns a gomtv premium account.
You are talking about a different thing. That was when Incontrol was not even really restreaming, like, half of the video was being shown for 8 minutes. The next day Incontrol asked for a restream of GSL on his own stream.
I read your earlier post when you posted it, thank you. It was full of misrepresentation and sensationalization. In fact, the way that you interpret iNc's statements are so dramatic that I almost have to assume that they are intentional misinterpretation.
I'm not trying to misinterpret anything. Go look at the posts I linked to, just look at them, he says he did these things and he even apologized.
I read all those posts when inc first posted them. And again when you linked them to compare. The claims you make about what he said are completely off-base, and your post is basically you shoving words in his mouth, then linking his post, which says nothing of the kind. You may not be trying to misinterpret anything, but you are definitely succeeding.
Fine, ignore what I said which is confirmed by the posts Incontrol made that I quoted too.
Reading the posts Incontrol made confirms what I said, even without my own posting.
You need to realize I really do like Incontrol, but lying about what he did completely undermines the entire point of Incontrol apologizing.
On February 26 2011 09:08 kethers wrote: I was somewhat relieved when this post came out because in order to promote E-Sports Onto the next stage, professionalism needs to exist whether you like it or not. The people shouting, "don't change at all! I LIKE it when you shit on ppl!" don't quite get what public image means.
This is the attitude that most annoys me on these forums, you have no evidence or precedent to imply that a) your idea of professionalism, whatever that may be because it's clearly a nebulous term and up to interpretation, even exists; and b) that it's necessary or advantageous when 'promoting e-sports' which thanks to day9's vomit inducing 'lets make esports happen' daily means that everyone on the forum can't possibly disagree with something if it's prefaced with something like"in order to make esports a reality".
The reality is no one knows what will make something successful in terms of sponsorships, TV coverage and so on, there's no evidence for this popular myth that everything has to be as watered down and flat as current sports journalism and coverage is and previous attempts to present e-sports in that manner through CGS and other shows have failed miserably. If anything the people who want e-sports to take off should be supporting popular and controversial community leaders precisely because they draw big crowds and show that there's something to be passionate about in a real manner.
Honestly I can understand changing to a more watered down 'professional' attitude if it was insisted by the TV station/event producer, even if I don't approve of it, what I can't understand is advocating people do it ahead of time in order to appease some imaginary sponsor/TV station that decides what to broadcast based on this arbitrary and easily fixable metric of professionalism over actual properties that matter like popularity, charismatic figures and how easy it is to get into.
As a white male I really have no place to speak for others, but I have always loved the joking around and I hope you don't become a dulled down version of yourself.
Celebrities go on Jon Stewart, SNL and other similar programs all the time where they say things that would offend others if they were serious. The problem occurs because you don't have a distinct line between your work and play. Personally, I wish you were in play mode all the time so don't get too caught up about it. I bet everyone will tune into NASL anyway so no worries
I hope the community at large can chill out and learn to take a joke. Not everything any person--even a prominent figure--says needs to be picked over to the nth degree. That attitude leads to prominent figures burning out because no one can keep up politically correct appearances 100% of the time.
That said, I applaud Incontrol's forthrightness and commitment to the community
People in the first few pages saying "dont change " are doing iNcontrol and NASL a massive disservice. You arent helping him and you are just using the man as your source for comedy and pointless drama (see the TB debacle, Kelly debacle, GSL restream debacle). He is not just here to entertain you and blast people you dont happen to like.
He has learned a valueable lesson and will need to act more proffesional from now considering he IS the face of NASL regardless of who says what.
The amount of responsiblity on his shoulders is immense, who is to say we will ever get a chance for a big tournament like this in the west for SC2 ever again? All that is on his shoulders now, and he has no time to dance infront of you to entertain you.
I really hope you grow into your role IC, this can be your legacy, the man who spearheaded the NASL and brought proper SC2 competition to North America. That is something people will remember more than any player who won ____ Tournament.
I think you are ready for that big guy, you got broad shoulders and i dont mean just your actual shoulders but mentally i think you are fit for the job
Geoff, we've disagreed on several points in the past, but in the end I still really appreciate the efforts you put into ESPORTS and competitive SC2. I wish you the best of luck and will be supporting NASL all the way through.
P.S. If you see some nerdy asian kid, one-fourth your size, go up to you at PAX (I'll be slinging my bright orange messenger bag), it's me
Since you're asking for input, I'll offer mine. People generally love an overall positive attitude. Look at tastosis: the snide remarks Artosis occasionally makes are more than balanced by Tasteless' ability to always be positive and joke over uncomfortable moments. You have a very good sense of humor, but I think that you occasionally step over the boundaries with your remarks towards people who really don't deserve them. Some examples that I've recently heard on your stream and SOTG:
- last SOTG you were talking about Tasteless saying he's gona be busy (laundry followed by laddering) and basically saying how he's avoiding participating in SOTG due to not wanting to talk about the game. You know what? Tasteless might not have the insight of you or Artosis, but nonetheless he's a great commentator who is a major factor in GSL overseas success. Was your comment funny? Not particularly. Was it irritating to people who like Tasteless? To me it was. It had a negative flavour to it; people generally don't like negative attitude.
- in one of your recent streams you were talking about TB and how he predicted NASL to be the doom of western Esports. That was factually incorrect of which you were informed later (as in fact TB was supportive of NASL), yet you managed to sneak in a few snide remarks about TB still. Again, TB is not a SC2 pro, and he readily admits it, yet he's extremely entertaining and good for the community. Why project an overall neagative attitude towards the guy who doesn't deserve it?
The reason I'm actually posting this is because I think you're *the* person who has the highest chance to push NASL forward. I think that your occasional negativity towards people who don't deserve it might actually detract some SC2 fans from your commentating and therefore NASL. My suggestion is to calibrate your remarks; if you feel like making fun of somebody do it, but give credit where it's due. If it's somebody that does a lot for the community, acknowledge it. Don't lose your sarcastic sense of humor as it is a major part of your personality, but keep in mind that your overall reflection on people that are generally liked should be fair.
Week 1: iNcontrol does an impression of TotalBiscut = LOL NASL gets announced Week 2: iNcontrol does an impression of Kelly = QQ jk jk. I think it does show how much you give a crap about it all, by making posts like this. I have no doubt your reading through all these pages and taking the criticism on board, but man, it's the internet. There's ALWAYS someone that's going to bitch and moan about it. Try not to let it get you down to much. iNcontrol Foighin' round the world.
Everyone in this thread seems to be avoiding the fact that mocking Kelly's voice/accent was, or was potentially, racist.
Geoff, you probably have no idea what it's like to have the way you speak derided like that, coming from the presumably privileged position that you're in (white male in a white country). That shit hurts.
I completely agree that saying "continue to be yourself don't change anything lol" is short-sighted and bad for the NASL, and the passion you have for the NASL will prevent you from doing that. That being said, you are who you are, and there is a reason that you are a successful caster/podcast participant/streamer. Just like how not every music has to be soft rock, not every SC persona has to be Day[9]. Variety makes for spicy life.
A month ago, sage advice would have rightly been, F' the haters, who cares. However as the face of the NASL and one of the most infulential members of the Western SC2 community, I am glad you are taking what you do seriously and you are willing to put the success of the league before some fun at the expense of others.
Don't let the pressure of the NASL break you from who you are, because you weren't asked to do the NASL because you were the most knowledgable caster or because you were a legendary pro player or because you were a dick. You were brought on because you were enough of all of those things to have mass appeal.
Apologize to those who were offended, but don't stop being edgy. Don't think of this as a "last chance" just a learning opportunity. Perhaps most importantly, now that the apology is made, people will be putting you under a crazy microscope, don't beat yourself up if the haters still hate. Just know that the silent majority appreciates what you do.
He's the hero the people deserve. Just not the one they need right now. So we'll troll him, because he can take it. Because he's not an hero. He's a comedic caster, an entertaining personality, an NASL commentator.
On February 26 2011 09:23 leakingpear wrote: Honestly I can understand changing to a more watered down 'professional' attitude if it was insisted by the TV station/event producer, even if I don't approve of it, what I can't understand is advocating people do it ahead of time in order to appease some imaginary sponsor/TV station that decides what to broadcast based on this arbitrary and easily fixable metric of professionalism over actual properties that matter like popularity, charismatic figures and how easy it is to get into.
Ok, so if a basketball player who does crack and gets into physical fights is trying to get into the NBA, you would tell him," No, no, you may be popular in your neighborhood and your demeanor creates controversy, but don't change unless someone from the NBA Actually TELLS you to change." is your mindset?
There is nothing wrong with trying to create a more professional image, and I'm sure Geoff would know better than me and you what direction he is going and what he is trying to achieve. If he has made this post, I'm sure he took into consideration a great deal of factors to make this post.
And by the way, it's not an "imaginary sponsor." NASL _IS_ being sponsored by something real.
You are a great guy and a great commentator and player but your humour while funny is easily misconstrued and misappropriated. Some people aren't used to the sarcastic style of comedy you have. I feel if you balance this with an addendum after wards to discuss how the comment was made in good fun it could be ok as long as you are careful of how far the sarcasm goes. The totalbiscuit thing to me seems to be coming across as overinflated to be honest. you point out the truth in his lack of deep understanding but lately you have been balancing that out by discussing how he is good for introducing newer fans to the SC2 world and franchise.
Your joke about Tasteless was in good fun and was fine and I personally, as a fan of tasteless saw nothing wrong with it.
In short trying to balance your comedy and personality with a public professional persona will be a new task for you to take on and probably won't be easy but will be manageable.
GL iNcontrol , I think many of us are pretty understanding and are ok with your growing pains becoming a public professional face of NASL as opposed to the public character you tend to be
On February 26 2011 09:39 BasilPesto wrote: Everyone in this thread seems to be avoiding the fact that mocking Kelly's voice/accent was, or was potentially, racist.
Geoff, you probably have no idea what it's like to have the way you speak derided like that, coming from the presumably privileged position that you're in (white male in a white country). That shit hurts.
Oh come on. And mocking TB was racist against all british people?
This is the one thing I've hated in life more than anything.
A few idiots act like fools and ruin the fun for everyone. I'm pretty sure this started when my first grade teacher decided to punish the whole class with no recess because one idiot in the class couldn't stop causing trouble. He had no trouble missing recess while the rest of the class was punished. He won!
Same thing happens throughout life. Rules get put in place that punish everyone because one person does something stupid.
Now we have Geoff, the most interesting and entertaining figure in all of esports, claiming that he's going to punish everyone by changing his public personality because a few idiots feel the need to tear him down. I really don't know if I blame the idiots, or Geoff more for this.
Since Geoff started his stream (and maybe before this with SotG), he has consistently overreacted to the insanely serious, insanely vocal minority. This is clearly another example of that. There is a reason he has the most viewed stream on the site even though he just barely has gotten started. There is a reason he gets more comments made about him on the TL forums than any other figure. There is a reason the NASL.tv chose him. It is all because he is who he is. Changing that is incredibly counterproductive to everything.
Incontrol needs to take a lesson from Tasteless who on GOM regularly pokes at the serious nerds who think it is important to tell everyone what they think they are doing wrong. These people are idiots who will always be there trying to drag you down no matter how good you do or how far you go. You have to know within yourself that the things you do are done lighthearted and come from a good place which is the only basis for judging anything.
Focus on yourself and not the never-ending commentary that will surely follow you. If someone above you (a boss or respected friend), gives you feedback...then absolutely re-evaluate. However, letting anonymous internet trolls change who you are is a serious miscalculation of what is needed to make yourself and your endeavors successful.
iNcontroL, man haters goin' hate. I watched your stream for your humor and for the fact that you are who you are despite criticism. Please dont forsake what made you popular in the first place.
On February 26 2011 09:39 BasilPesto wrote: Everyone in this thread seems to be avoiding the fact that mocking Kelly's voice/accent was, or was potentially, racist.
Geoff, you probably have no idea what it's like to have the way you speak derided like that, coming from the presumably privileged position that you're in (white male in a white country). That shit hurts.
Oh come on. And mocking TB was racist against all british people?
Not being racist is the new racism.
Possibly. I can't speak for TB's, or people who relate to TB's, experience of things though. When I hear a guy pull out every single caricature of an Asian accent for the reason of bagging a commentator though, I get suspicious.
Incontrol needs to take a lesson from Tasteless who on GOM regularly pokes at the serious nerds who think it is important to tell everyone what they think they are doing wrong. These people are idiots who will always be there trying to drag you down no matter how good you do or how far you go. You have to know within yourself that the things you do are done lighthearted and come from a good place which is the only basis for judging anything.
Focus on yourself and not the never-ending commentary that will surely follow you. If someone above you (a boss or respected friend), gives you feedback...then absolutely re-evaluate. However, letting anonymous internet trolls change who you are is a serious miscalculation of what is needed to make yourself and your endeavors successful.
Hope it doesnt mean that good old incontrol, a funny guy (and serious when its needed) will simply become an 'Always political correct guy'
By the way, You are really good proof of fact that good player will be better commentator than a guy who only screams about things he sees without any in-depth knowledge.
On February 26 2011 09:39 BasilPesto wrote: Everyone in this thread seems to be avoiding the fact that mocking Kelly's voice/accent was, or was potentially, racist.
Geoff, you probably have no idea what it's like to have the way you speak derided like that, coming from the presumably privileged position that you're in (white male in a white country). That shit hurts.
Oh come on. And mocking TB was racist against all british people?
Not being racist is the new racism.
Possibly. I can't speak for TB's, or people who relate to TB's, experience of things though. When I hear a guy pull out every single caricature of an Asian accent for the reason of bagging a commentator though, I get suspicious.
It would be racist if it came from a place of hate towards Kelly or hate towards Asian people which he clearly doesn't have. He simply thinks she talks funny and tries his best to impersonate it (pretty badly I might add). Words (or impersonations), mean absolutely nothing. It is the place that they are coming from that matters. Inc is so incredibly lighthearted that I can't imagine anyone truly believing he has anything that comes from a place of hate or malice. People have really got to turn down their sensitivity levels in this world. I can only imagine the unhappy, heart attack at 35 lives these people live.
On February 26 2011 09:39 BasilPesto wrote: Everyone in this thread seems to be avoiding the fact that mocking Kelly's voice/accent was, or was potentially, racist.
Geoff, you probably have no idea what it's like to have the way you speak derided like that, coming from the presumably privileged position that you're in (white male in a white country). That shit hurts.
Oh come on. And mocking TB was racist against all british people?
Not being racist is the new racism.
Possibly. I can't speak for TB's, or people who relate to TB's, experience of things though. When I hear a guy pull out every single caricature of an Asian accent for the reason of bagging a commentator though, I get suspicious.
It would be racist if it came from a place of hate towards Kelly or hate towards Asian people which he clearly doesn't have. He simply thinks she talks funny and tries his best to impersonate it (pretty badly I might add). Words (or impersonations), mean absolutely nothing. It is the place that they are coming from that matters. Inc is so incredibly lighthearted that I can't imagine anyone truly believing he has anything that comes from a place of hate or malice. People have really got to turn down their sensitivity levels in this world. I can only imagine the unhappy, heart attack at 35 lives these people live.
I'd rather have a heart attack at the age of 35 than be completely ignorant/uninformed.
Incontrol it's easy to see that the vocal minority has made you question your choices, however I believe the vast majority of people know how great you are! Your wit is a breath of fresh air. While you may be hearing from the people that don't like you more often now, being the spokesperson of the NASL, it's important to remember that most people like you and what you offer to the community. If the minority was the majority why would your stream get such great numbers every night.
With the recent announcement of the NASL a friend of mine was talking about how he thought you seemed a bit obnoxious in the clash of the titans showmatch. I told him to see the real you just watch an hour or two of your stream to see the real person you are. A jolly person with a passionate love for e-sports! So remember haters gonna hate.
P.S. You should probably stop the personal attacks now since you are the most visible person of what could be the GREATEST SC2 LEAGUE EVER!
P.P.S. If you think it's bad now just wait till you win the NASL INCONTROL FIGHTING!
On February 26 2011 09:39 BasilPesto wrote: Everyone in this thread seems to be avoiding the fact that mocking Kelly's voice/accent was, or was potentially, racist.
Geoff, you probably have no idea what it's like to have the way you speak derided like that, coming from the presumably privileged position that you're in (white male in a white country). That shit hurts.
Oh come on. And mocking TB was racist against all british people?
Not being racist is the new racism.
Possibly. I can't speak for TB's, or people who relate to TB's, experience of things though. When I hear a guy pull out every single caricature of an Asian accent for the reason of bagging a commentator though, I get suspicious.
It would be racist if it came from a place of hate towards Kelly or hate towards Asian people which he clearly doesn't have. He simply thinks she talks funny and tries his best to impersonate it (pretty badly I might add). Words (or impersonations), mean absolutely nothing. It is the place that they are coming from that matters. Inc is so incredibly lighthearted that I can't imagine anyone truly believing he has anything that comes from a place of hate or malice. People have really got to turn down their sensitivity levels in this world. I can only imagine the unhappy, heart attack at 35 lives these people live.
Racism can also just as much derive from ignorance. Just look at typical depictions of the 'other' in mainstream media for the last century or so. It's not necessarily about hatred, but whatever serves your purpose.
Perceiving how someone talks funny is quite possibly the first thing on every racist's mind (as well as appearance).
On February 26 2011 09:39 BasilPesto wrote: Everyone in this thread seems to be avoiding the fact that mocking Kelly's voice/accent was, or was potentially, racist.
Geoff, you probably have no idea what it's like to have the way you speak derided like that, coming from the presumably privileged position that you're in (white male in a white country). That shit hurts.
Oh come on. And mocking TB was racist against all british people?
Not being racist is the new racism.
Possibly. I can't speak for TB's, or people who relate to TB's, experience of things though. When I hear a guy pull out every single caricature of an Asian accent for the reason of bagging a commentator though, I get suspicious.
It would be racist if it came from a place of hate towards Kelly or hate towards Asian people which he clearly doesn't have. He simply thinks she talks funny and tries his best to impersonate it (pretty badly I might add). Words (or impersonations), mean absolutely nothing. It is the place that they are coming from that matters. Inc is so incredibly lighthearted that I can't imagine anyone truly believing he has anything that comes from a place of hate or malice. People have really got to turn down their sensitivity levels in this world. I can only imagine the unhappy, heart attack at 35 lives these people live.
I'd rather have a heart attack at the age of 35 than be completely ignorant/uninformed.
See Inc...watch as this delusion deflects right off me.
Well said iNcontroL. We all make mistakes, but it's how we own up to them that truly determines our character. I know you have the ability and desire to make NASL a success. I'm really looking forward to the upcoming era of eSports. In a way, I'm glad to get all of this drama out in the open and resolved so when the NASL hits full tilt we can focus on what we all want to see... the highest level of starcraft 2 presented in a fun and entertaining manner.
iNcontroL has been one of my favorite members of the community because of his sense of humor. Restreaming GSL was not acceptable, but everything else was fine with me.
It seems to me that many people that hold a grudge towards Geoff do so because they don't understand when he is joking. People hear him talk crap about someone and think that he is a major dick, but in reality he is joking with someone that he is friends with.
In some sense, I feel sorry for people who are unable to appreciate people taking sarcastic jabs at each other. I feel even worse for people who get angry about it. Life probably isn't very fun with a view like that.
Normally I would find it entertaining that some small groups of people get upset, but it's different when peoples misguided anger forces a person change. I do not consider Geoff to be insensitive, but it seems like a number of people do. I hope these hypersensitive people do some self reflection of their own.
What is worse than insensitivity? Hypersensitivity.
You're asking for input, ill take the opportunity and provide some of mine. First of all i'm a big fan and take what i say to be constructive please.
On SOTG i think you're fine except sometimes your jokes interfere with real questions etc. By this I mean the joke takes over the conversation and we never get to hear the real answers. Also there seems to be some sort of double standard that became apparent when NASL was revealed. Questioning other leagues has never been a problem, but all of a sudden when it was nasl it was retarded to ask where the money came from, if the team rule was not the best etc.
I've never listened to your stream so i dunno about that. My final plea is to please, please, please do something about this 5per team rule in the nasl. It's simply not ideal and should be changed as soon as possible.
GTFO with the racist bullcrap. MrBitter REGULARLY pays out French people with Geoff on his coaching stream. Noooobody says shit, and he is literally making fun of him cause he's French. Joking of course, as they are friends. No harm done. Geoff regularly pays out Australians with his impersonation which sounds like Russell Crowe from South Park. I don't take offence. And I don't' even know Geoff. I find his caricature of the Australian accent to be hilarious. Never mind that Geoff and Kelly ARE FRIENDS. Don't call Geoff racist on behalf of Kelly, just cause you find it racist, even though she finds it funny and doesn't take offence. Lighten the hell up, jesus.
Be all serious and professional when you cast for NASL, otherwise just be yourself (or rather don't STOP being yourself) The reason for your fame is exactly the fact that you joke around and are generally a funny person. It's what people like about you. We don't want a serious bitter mofo, we want the jokes / remarks / FUN. People might whine and rage about stuff you say, but so what? Do you honestly think that a few trolls will cost you your job ? It's your free time, you can do whatever you want.
TL;DR dont change anything, just be professional when you cast for NASL.
On February 26 2011 09:39 BasilPesto wrote: Everyone in this thread seems to be avoiding the fact that mocking Kelly's voice/accent was, or was potentially, racist.
Geoff, you probably have no idea what it's like to have the way you speak derided like that, coming from the presumably privileged position that you're in (white male in a white country). That shit hurts.
Oh come on. And mocking TB was racist against all british people?
Not being racist is the new racism.
Possibly. I can't speak for TB's, or people who relate to TB's, experience of things though. When I hear a guy pull out every single caricature of an Asian accent for the reason of bagging a commentator though, I get suspicious.
It would be racist if it came from a place of hate towards Kelly or hate towards Asian people which he clearly doesn't have. He simply thinks she talks funny and tries his best to impersonate it (pretty badly I might add). Words (or impersonations), mean absolutely nothing. It is the place that they are coming from that matters. Inc is so incredibly lighthearted that I can't imagine anyone truly believing he has anything that comes from a place of hate or malice. People have really got to turn down their sensitivity levels in this world. I can only imagine the unhappy, heart attack at 35 lives these people live.
I'd rather have a heart attack at the age of 35 than be completely ignorant/uninformed.
See Inc...watch as this delusion deflects right off me.
Good man, Incontrol the fact you are willing to own up to your actions by your own accord shows (in my own tiny opinion) we the community could not put our faith in anyone better.
I always liked you incontrol and then i met you in person and I liked you even more. You couldn't have been kinder, and more hilarious. I met you at Green Forest Lan in Ventura, and I was rather impressed.
I've listened to many of your cast's and your humorous spots on the internet. From what are horses to who is artosis. I heard one bit of the kelly and biscut fun you poked. Although it could have been taken rudely i don't think you had any intention of harm and it was all ment in good fun.
I don't think or believe that anyone could do a better job with the nasl then you.
Hopefully this post is just to pacify prudes in the community, because it's very unnecessary in my opinion. Apologizing to the minority who have no sense of humor is a waste of energy, and changing for that minority is ridiculous.
On February 26 2011 10:22 Tingles wrote: GTFO with the racist bullcrap. MrBitter REGULARLY pays out French people with Geoff on his coaching stream. Noooobody says shit, and he is literally making fun of him cause he's French. Joking of course, as they are friends. No harm done. Geoff regularly pays out Australians with his impersonation which sounds like Russell Crowe from South Park. I don't take offence. And I don't' even know Geoff. I find his caricature of the Australian accent to be hilarious. Never mind that Geoff and Kelly ARE FRIENDS. Don't call Geoff racist on behalf of Kelly, just cause you find it racist, even though she finds it funny and doesn't take offence. Lighten the hell up, jesus.
Power relations. Not all forms of racism are equal. An American impersonating an Australian isn't racist, because: 1. They're both assumably Caucasian. 2. Both countries are rooted in the Western sphere.
I can call Geoff racist because he is a media figure, and I am one of his audience. In his position, mocking Kelly's accent has wider reaching effects... this isn't simply Geoff and Kelly in a sealed vacuum. Geoff speaks to me, and to everyone else he listens to. Am I then to turn a blind eye (or ear)?
On February 26 2011 10:22 Tingles wrote: GTFO with the racist bullcrap. MrBitter REGULARLY pays out French people with Geoff on his coaching stream. Noooobody says shit, and he is literally making fun of him cause he's French. Joking of course, as they are friends. No harm done. Geoff regularly pays out Australians with his impersonation which sounds like Russell Crowe from South Park. I don't take offence. And I don't' even know Geoff. I find his caricature of the Australian accent to be hilarious. Never mind that Geoff and Kelly ARE FRIENDS. Don't call Geoff racist on behalf of Kelly, just cause you find it racist, even though she finds it funny and doesn't take offence. Lighten the hell up, jesus.
Power relations. Not all forms of racism are equal. An American impersonating an Australian isn't racist, because: 1. They're both assumably Caucasian. 2. Both countries are rooted in the Western sphere.
I can call Geoff racist because he is a media figure, and I am one of his audience. In his position, mocking Kelly's accent has wider reaching effects... this isn't simply Geoff and Kelly in a sealed vacuum. Geoff speaks to me, and to everyone else he listens to. Am I then to turn a blind eye (or ear)?
Maybe you could just realize that it's facetious instead... then all problems would be solved.
Nobody's going to get leukemia because Geoff "iNcontrol" Robinson told a racial joke.
On February 26 2011 10:22 Tingles wrote: GTFO with the racist bullcrap. MrBitter REGULARLY pays out French people with Geoff on his coaching stream. Noooobody says shit, and he is literally making fun of him cause he's French. Joking of course, as they are friends. No harm done. Geoff regularly pays out Australians with his impersonation which sounds like Russell Crowe from South Park. I don't take offence. And I don't' even know Geoff. I find his caricature of the Australian accent to be hilarious. Never mind that Geoff and Kelly ARE FRIENDS. Don't call Geoff racist on behalf of Kelly, just cause you find it racist, even though she finds it funny and doesn't take offence. Lighten the hell up, jesus.
Power relations. Not all forms of racism are equal. An American impersonating an Australian isn't racist, because: 1. They're both assumably Caucasian. 2. Both countries are rooted in the Western sphere.
I can call Geoff racist because he is a media figure, and I am one of his audience. In his position, mocking Kelly's accent has wider reaching effects... this isn't simply Geoff and Kelly in a sealed vacuum. Geoff speaks to me, and to everyone else he listens to. Am I then to turn a blind eye (or ear)?
Context..? I think I've heard incontrol do impersonations of artosis, nony, totalbiscuit, day[9], idra and probably some others I forget. You seem like a really fun guy, do you get all sensitive and defensive when someone light-heartedly does an impersonation of a mutual friend in your work place or school setting as well?
People like huko really take all the fun out of starcraft, or at least are trying very hard to do so..
Sensible reddit commenter wrote: So the NASL picked iNcontroL to be the spokesman and he has to repeatedly apologise for acting like iNcontroL?
I really don't like that you give so much attention to that vocal minority. Don't change, keep making fun of people, keep being who you are.
This drama doesn't actually exist, I'm getting a bit annoyed that people are acting like it does.
You have nothing to apology for Geoff, NOTHING. People need to get thicker skin and stop acting like Geoff isn't entitled to his opinion or making light hearted jokes about people.
On February 26 2011 10:22 Tingles wrote: GTFO with the racist bullcrap. MrBitter REGULARLY pays out French people with Geoff on his coaching stream. Noooobody says shit, and he is literally making fun of him cause he's French. Joking of course, as they are friends. No harm done. Geoff regularly pays out Australians with his impersonation which sounds like Russell Crowe from South Park. I don't take offence. And I don't' even know Geoff. I find his caricature of the Australian accent to be hilarious. Never mind that Geoff and Kelly ARE FRIENDS. Don't call Geoff racist on behalf of Kelly, just cause you find it racist, even though she finds it funny and doesn't take offence. Lighten the hell up, jesus.
Power relations. Not all forms of racism are equal. An American impersonating an Australian isn't racist, because: 1. They're both assumably Caucasian. 2. Both countries are rooted in the Western sphere.
I can call Geoff racist because he is a media figure, and I am one of his audience. In his position, mocking Kelly's accent has wider reaching effects... this isn't simply Geoff and Kelly in a sealed vacuum. Geoff speaks to me, and to everyone else he listens to. Am I then to turn a blind eye (or ear)?
Fair point. So basically it's not racist to be intentionally hateful towards a French person, if you are white, literally just because he's French, like in the case of MrBitter's stream. There wasn't hate there, they are obviously friends, so no one even batted an eyelid at that. The point of the joke was never "she's asian, lets laugh at her and her funny accent", it was literally just "her accent is funny". Say he impersonated her without actually knowing what she looked like ... would that be racist? What if she was white, born in China, learning english again and still had the same accent. Is that racist? I realize that point is semantics, but regardless i suppose it's trying to get across what I'm trying to say. I could be wrong but i don't' think Geoff ever spoke about her ethnicity, just her accent.
On February 26 2011 10:22 Tingles wrote: GTFO with the racist bullcrap. MrBitter REGULARLY pays out French people with Geoff on his coaching stream. Noooobody says shit, and he is literally making fun of him cause he's French. Joking of course, as they are friends. No harm done. Geoff regularly pays out Australians with his impersonation which sounds like Russell Crowe from South Park. I don't take offence. And I don't' even know Geoff. I find his caricature of the Australian accent to be hilarious. Never mind that Geoff and Kelly ARE FRIENDS. Don't call Geoff racist on behalf of Kelly, just cause you find it racist, even though she finds it funny and doesn't take offence. Lighten the hell up, jesus.
Power relations. Not all forms of racism are equal. An American impersonating an Australian isn't racist, because: 1. They're both assumably Caucasian. 2. Both countries are rooted in the Western sphere.
I can call Geoff racist because he is a media figure, and I am one of his audience. In his position, mocking Kelly's accent has wider reaching effects... this isn't simply Geoff and Kelly in a sealed vacuum. Geoff speaks to me, and to everyone else he listens to. Am I then to turn a blind eye (or ear)?
Maybe you could just realize that it's facetious instead... then all problems would be solved.
Nobody's going to get leukemia because Geoff "iNcontrol" Robinson told a racial joke.
Ah, if we only could apply that mindset to racism globally--all our problems would be solved!
On February 26 2011 10:22 Tingles wrote: GTFO with the racist bullcrap. MrBitter REGULARLY pays out French people with Geoff on his coaching stream. Noooobody says shit, and he is literally making fun of him cause he's French. Joking of course, as they are friends. No harm done. Geoff regularly pays out Australians with his impersonation which sounds like Russell Crowe from South Park. I don't take offence. And I don't' even know Geoff. I find his caricature of the Australian accent to be hilarious. Never mind that Geoff and Kelly ARE FRIENDS. Don't call Geoff racist on behalf of Kelly, just cause you find it racist, even though she finds it funny and doesn't take offence. Lighten the hell up, jesus.
Power relations. Not all forms of racism are equal. An American impersonating an Australian isn't racist, because: 1. They're both assumably Caucasian. 2. Both countries are rooted in the Western sphere.
I can call Geoff racist because he is a media figure, and I am one of his audience. In his position, mocking Kelly's accent has wider reaching effects... this isn't simply Geoff and Kelly in a sealed vacuum. Geoff speaks to me, and to everyone else he listens to. Am I then to turn a blind eye (or ear)?
Context..? I think I've heard incontrol do impersonations of artosis, nony, totalbiscuit, day[9], idra and probably some others I forget. You seem like a really fun guy, do you get all sensitive and defensive when someone light-heartedly does an impersonation of a mutual friend in your work place or school setting as well?
Again, power relations. A Caucasian impersonating a Caucasian doesn't do damage, as both are in a sense of privilege and power, with social, cultural and historical roots behind it. That's why racism doesn't really work upwards.
Your attempted analogy is problematic. You're saying that Geoff "light-heartedly" mocked Kelly's accent. If that were the case, then why'd Geoff post this blog? If he meant it light-heartedly, then again, perhaps he is totally ignorant of how such light-heartedness can cut deep, not just for Kelly (if at all), but for his viewers.
On February 26 2011 10:22 Tingles wrote: GTFO with the racist bullcrap. MrBitter REGULARLY pays out French people with Geoff on his coaching stream. Noooobody says shit, and he is literally making fun of him cause he's French. Joking of course, as they are friends. No harm done. Geoff regularly pays out Australians with his impersonation which sounds like Russell Crowe from South Park. I don't take offence. And I don't' even know Geoff. I find his caricature of the Australian accent to be hilarious. Never mind that Geoff and Kelly ARE FRIENDS. Don't call Geoff racist on behalf of Kelly, just cause you find it racist, even though she finds it funny and doesn't take offence. Lighten the hell up, jesus.
Power relations. Not all forms of racism are equal. An American impersonating an Australian isn't racist, because: 1. They're both assumably Caucasian. 2. Both countries are rooted in the Western sphere.
I can call Geoff racist because he is a media figure, and I am one of his audience. In his position, mocking Kelly's accent has wider reaching effects... this isn't simply Geoff and Kelly in a sealed vacuum. Geoff speaks to me, and to everyone else he listens to. Am I then to turn a blind eye (or ear)?
Context..? I think I've heard incontrol do impersonations of artosis, nony, totalbiscuit, day[9], idra and probably some others I forget. You seem like a really fun guy, do you get all sensitive and defensive when someone light-heartedly does an impersonation of a mutual friend in your work place or school setting as well?
People like huko really take all the fun out of starcraft, or at least are trying very hard to do so..
Sensible reddit commenter wrote: So the NASL picked iNcontroL to be the spokesman and he has to repeatedly apologise for acting like iNcontroL?
Think what you want. I want this to succeed, and GROW. I am not the only one who was worried. I am just the loudmouth who said it. I love iNcontrols humor, I download SotG every week mainly just to listen to him talk shit about everyone, and I enjoy every single bit of it. My problem came in when he became the face of NASL. iNcontrol doesn't have to change who he is, which is what yall think the "minority" want. I just want him to just tone it down a bit, so NASL can respresent E-Sports well. You can still playfully make fun of people in a respectful way. I highly doubt Kelly cares if iNcontrol playfully impersonates her, but it is a little overboard to do it for an hour or more WHILE kelly is casting.
On February 26 2011 10:41 Senx wrote: I really don't like that you give so much attention to that vocal minority. Don't change, keep making fun of people, keep being who you are.
This drama doesn't actually exist, I'm getting a bit annoyed that people are acting like it does.
You have nothing to apology for Geoff, NOTHING. People need to get thicker skin and stop acting like Geoff isn't entitled to his opinion or making light hearted jokes about people.
sigh..this community makes me very sad sometimes
Incontrol actually did more than making fun of people and restreaming GSL.
Why do people only respond to the "racism" and the "restreaming"? (i put quotes around these because he was hardly racist and he barely restreamed) I don't know why everyone keeps ignoring Geoffs OWN comments.
On February 26 2011 10:41 Senx wrote: I really don't like that you give so much attention to that vocal minority. Don't change, keep making fun of people, keep being who you are.
This drama doesn't actually exist, I'm getting a bit annoyed that people are acting like it does.
You have nothing to apology for Geoff, NOTHING. People need to get thicker skin and stop acting like Geoff isn't entitled to his opinion or making light hearted jokes about people.
sigh..this community makes me very sad sometimes
Incontrol actually did more than making fun of people and restreaming GSL.
Why do people only respond to the "racism" and the "restreaming"? (i put quotes around these because he was hardly racist and he barely restreamed) I don't know why everyone keeps ignoring Geoffs OWN comments.
Hey in case you haven't already Geoff, I would see what wheat has to say. I think he manages to straddle the line of professionalism while still channeling his awesome personality full force right at us most of the time. And he's had to deal with public opinion flare ups like this in the past too. I would hate to not hear the next Artosis or horse rant on SotG because of this. <3
On February 26 2011 10:22 Tingles wrote: GTFO with the racist bullcrap. MrBitter REGULARLY pays out French people with Geoff on his coaching stream. Noooobody says shit, and he is literally making fun of him cause he's French. Joking of course, as they are friends. No harm done. Geoff regularly pays out Australians with his impersonation which sounds like Russell Crowe from South Park. I don't take offence. And I don't' even know Geoff. I find his caricature of the Australian accent to be hilarious. Never mind that Geoff and Kelly ARE FRIENDS. Don't call Geoff racist on behalf of Kelly, just cause you find it racist, even though she finds it funny and doesn't take offence. Lighten the hell up, jesus.
Power relations. Not all forms of racism are equal. An American impersonating an Australian isn't racist, because: 1. They're both assumably Caucasian. 2. Both countries are rooted in the Western sphere.
I can call Geoff racist because he is a media figure, and I am one of his audience. In his position, mocking Kelly's accent has wider reaching effects... this isn't simply Geoff and Kelly in a sealed vacuum. Geoff speaks to me, and to everyone else he listens to. Am I then to turn a blind eye (or ear)?
Fair point. So basically it's not racist to be intentionally hateful towards a French person, if you are white, literally just because he's French, like in the case of MrBitter's stream. There wasn't hate there, they are obviously friends, so no one even batted an eyelid at that.
I understand where you're coming from, but again, it's not the same. On the hierarchy of racism, it's less effective. Still, it exists though, so there you go.
The point of the joke was never "she's asian, lets laugh at her and her funny accent", it was literally just "her accent is funny". Say he impersonated her without actually knowing what she looked like ... would that be racist? What if she was white, born in China, learning english again and still had the same accent. Is that racist? I realize that point is semantics, but regardless i suppose it's trying to get across what I'm trying to say. I could be wrong but i don't' think Geoff ever spoke about her ethnicity, just her accent.
It's pretty simplistic to detach the Asian accent from the Asian image. Again, attacking one's accent is a common weapon in racism.
On February 26 2011 10:22 Tingles wrote: GTFO with the racist bullcrap. MrBitter REGULARLY pays out French people with Geoff on his coaching stream. Noooobody says shit, and he is literally making fun of him cause he's French. Joking of course, as they are friends. No harm done. Geoff regularly pays out Australians with his impersonation which sounds like Russell Crowe from South Park. I don't take offence. And I don't' even know Geoff. I find his caricature of the Australian accent to be hilarious. Never mind that Geoff and Kelly ARE FRIENDS. Don't call Geoff racist on behalf of Kelly, just cause you find it racist, even though she finds it funny and doesn't take offence. Lighten the hell up, jesus.
Power relations. Not all forms of racism are equal. An American impersonating an Australian isn't racist, because: 1. They're both assumably Caucasian. 2. Both countries are rooted in the Western sphere.
I can call Geoff racist because he is a media figure, and I am one of his audience. In his position, mocking Kelly's accent has wider reaching effects... this isn't simply Geoff and Kelly in a sealed vacuum. Geoff speaks to me, and to everyone else he listens to. Am I then to turn a blind eye (or ear)?
Maybe you could just realize that it's facetious instead... then all problems would be solved.
Nobody's going to get leukemia because Geoff "iNcontrol" Robinson told a racial joke.
Ah, if we only could apply that mindset to racism globally--all our problems would be solved!
If you recognize a joke as a joke then problems get eliminated. If you recognize racism as a joke problems get created.
If everyone worldwide had some critical thinking skills, then many of our problems would be solved. Unfortunately, not everyone does, so posts like yours will continue to be made as long as there are places to make them.
On February 26 2011 10:54 Gaius Baltar wrote: Hey in case you haven't already Geoff, I would see what wheat has to say. I think he manages to straddle the line of professionalism while still channeling his awesome personality full force right at us most of the time. And he's had to deal with public opinion flare ups like this in the past too. I would hate to not hear the next Artosis or horse rant on SotG because of this. <3
I agree, djWHEAT is one of the main people I look up to in E-Sports, and so should everyone. They have done so much for e-sports and is a very good role model for anyone who wants to help out e-sports.
Big man, just want to let you know of the confidence I have in your abilities.
If there was something I could have you keep in mind it would be that whenever someone says "InC shouldn't be the face of the NASL...but rather, so and so!" I would want you to remember that the NASL is YOUR idea, YOUR creation, and YOUR success or failure. You are the ONLY person for the job because without you, the initiative to create a Western league as big as the NASL would not exist, and might never exist.
As you go forward with the rest of the NASL team, go knowing that you are not part of the NASL, but the NASL is part of YOU!
The sad fact is 99% of the time it's the people complaining about something that have the loudest voice. There are a lot of people who appreciate the way you are because eSports and StarCraft II needs characters to become successful, and you're certainly a character.
You will never be able to please everyone, but just remember, nobody is forced to listen to State of the Game, read your posts or watch your stream. They are making the choice to do so. If they are only doing it to complain and create drama then it is them who have the problem not you.
As for the Kellymilkies thing, that is an issue for you and her and has very little to do with the rest of the community in my opinion. Restreaming GSL was a mistake if you did indeed do that, but you've apologised for that and theres not much else you can do about it at this point.
I agree that it's wrong to restream Gom, which is illegal, and mocking Kelly is not the most high-brow endeavor, but I think your intentions were good. Kelly is a classic case of the emperor has no clothes, and in my mind, it is a noble soul that speaks out when they see something that is wrong. It's even more courageous when that person is a public figure with something to lose.
I think if you could choose a better way to express your dissatisfaction with Kelly, by commentating yourself and massively outshine her (as you already do when you cast) you will more poetically illustrate how much she lacks as a commentator. Keep fighting the good fight, and know that you have many fans, me being one of them.
On February 26 2011 10:22 Tingles wrote: GTFO with the racist bullcrap. MrBitter REGULARLY pays out French people with Geoff on his coaching stream. Noooobody says shit, and he is literally making fun of him cause he's French. Joking of course, as they are friends. No harm done. Geoff regularly pays out Australians with his impersonation which sounds like Russell Crowe from South Park. I don't take offence. And I don't' even know Geoff. I find his caricature of the Australian accent to be hilarious. Never mind that Geoff and Kelly ARE FRIENDS. Don't call Geoff racist on behalf of Kelly, just cause you find it racist, even though she finds it funny and doesn't take offence. Lighten the hell up, jesus.
Power relations. Not all forms of racism are equal. An American impersonating an Australian isn't racist, because: 1. They're both assumably Caucasian. 2. Both countries are rooted in the Western sphere.
I can call Geoff racist because he is a media figure, and I am one of his audience. In his position, mocking Kelly's accent has wider reaching effects... this isn't simply Geoff and Kelly in a sealed vacuum. Geoff speaks to me, and to everyone else he listens to. Am I then to turn a blind eye (or ear)?
Fair point. So basically it's not racist to be intentionally hateful towards a French person, if you are white, literally just because he's French, like in the case of MrBitter's stream. There wasn't hate there, they are obviously friends, so no one even batted an eyelid at that.
I understand where you're coming from, but again, it's not the same. On the hierarchy of racism, it's less effective. Still, it exists though, so there you go.
The point of the joke was never "she's asian, lets laugh at her and her funny accent", it was literally just "her accent is funny". Say he impersonated her without actually knowing what she looked like ... would that be racist? What if she was white, born in China, learning english again and still had the same accent. Is that racist? I realize that point is semantics, but regardless i suppose it's trying to get across what I'm trying to say. I could be wrong but i don't' think Geoff ever spoke about her ethnicity, just her accent.
It's pretty simplistic to detach the Asian accent from the Asian image. Again, attacking one's accent is a common weapon in racism.
Racism is pretty subjective it seems. There's no point arguing opinion on this matter. Someone somewhere is always going to find something offensive. I haven't found anything Geoff has said to be racist, or offensive, but i am not easily offended, and find the funny side of just about everything. It is obvious that you did find it offensive. The intention wasn't to be hateful or offensive. The French are a race, so to be hateful to them because they are French is racist. It's just no one cares because it's literally the same skin colour saying it. I actually find it more backwards and offensive to say it's ok that an American can hate on a Frenchman because they are both white.
On February 26 2011 08:26 Gentleman7 wrote: Geoff,
I think what kind of hit me (although I haven't been to vocal about in on TL, more on screddit) is that by being the front man of the NASL you had basically bought yourself into the casting scene. The 400k in prize money makes NASL THE tourney, and since you are the caster you are THE caster.
What rubbed me as wrong about this is you had never really played that role before. Sure you had casted the GCPL, but I still saw you as the joker of the community - the troll who was a mod, the guy who did impressions of people and made fun of Artosis (please don't stop doing that btw). And now, suddenly, I wake up and the NASL is here, suddenly the biggest tourney in the NA scene, and your casting it - which bring about a conflict.
You can't be the joker/troll on TL and StotG and the head man of NA eSports at the same time, which means one of those rolls is going to suffer. And that's what's upset me. Clearly you've chosen the NASL (power to you, best of luck, godspeed, etc etc) but I'm going to miss the other have of iNcontroL who was out of control (get it, it's punny).
Anyway, your life, your choice. But you can't have both.
glhf ~
Why can't he do both. Have you seen iNc when he is in his professional roles? He is extremely "professional", for lack of a better word, during public events, and especially in his business ventures like coaching. Many casters play dual roles in front of the official cameras and off of it. For example: day9, jp, wheat, tasteless, artosis.
The face of NASL can't mock Kelly, can't be as offensive on StotG etc. Day9's for of humor, for example, is mostly "positive" or directed at himself or no one in particular. iNcontrol is more direct and goes after people.
On February 26 2011 11:07 ayekuf wrote: The sad fact is 99% of the time it's the people complaining about something that have the loudest voice. There are a lot of people who appreciate the way you are because eSports and StarCraft II needs characters to become successful, and you're certainly a character.
You will never be able to please everyone, but just remember, nobody is forced to listen to State of the Game, read your posts or watch your stream. They are making the choice to do so. If they are only doing it to complain and create drama then it is them who have the problem not you.
As for the Kellymilkies thing, that is an issue for you and her and has very little to do with the rest of the community in my opinion. Restreaming GSL was a mistake if you did indeed do that, but you've apologised for that and theres not much else you can do about it at this point.
Carry on the way you are.
Carry on doing things like re-streaming the GSL then charging people to watch the NASL? I doubt many people were watching geoff just to find things to accuse him of. Geoffs stream is great when he's playing sc2 but as we all saw, things can get out of hand.
As a fan. As a fellow e-sports fanatic, and as a student im 100% confident that you are the right man for the job.
Why do I say this?
Because in every lesson we've had (I been student since early beta). You have been on time, professional and incredibly enthusiastic. You love what you are doing and that is a big enough reason to do what you do. Passion is a quality that you cannot teach, and is very hard to find.
With that being said, you are a very funny guy and I hope you don't become something you aren't. You can still make us laugh. I think as long as it is not at the expense of someone else, or at least someone that cares.
A restream isn't some huge issue, as I remember that night being quite stressful on goms servers. It's not an issue of them loosing out on views so much as they couldn't handle all the people wanting to watch. It's not a nice thing to do otherwise and honestly it's like j-walking at that point I don't get why anyone would be upset.
It's okay to be a critic and have an opinion don't change yourself to be what some guys think you should be. You got where you are today by being yourself right? You got to being the head of the North American Star League by being yourself. Remember that. You wouldn't of been made that otherwise. You work hard, you have a good voice and a pretty good personality. Don't let some stumbles alter your viewpoint too much man.
InControl you are a awesome beargamer duder. I for one love having you as you are. ^^ you is awesome yo.
I've never posted here before... but I listen to you on SOTG, and I must say I really do appreciate what you're doing for e-sports. I would ignore the people who come out with all the hate, those are the people who would do it regardless of who you are, or what you were doing. Also, respect points for writing this. Good Luck with everything iNcontrol!
I caught this a little late, but for reference the explosion of hate on reddit was cause by the user Huko, because:
Huko [S] 196 points 1 day ago[-] He asked for a restream on his stream (because hes too famous to watch GomTV second link). His chat lead him to my stream where we happened to be having a debate whether Incontrol should be the face of NASL (Where I think strongly he should not be), he saw this and then banned me on TL permanently. For "Re-streaming GSL and being a huge prick".
regardless, the situation is what it is, and this apology is indeed the best move incontrol could make after those bad decisions. GL with NASL, this community is counting on you!
your such a hypocrite, first you make fun of other peoples accent (not just kellys, also tlo ect.) i would understand if you had apologize in the first place, but you kept going on sotg. its not a matter of your position in this community or responsibilities, its more to show a little decency and respect as a person to other human beings. acctually i was more shocked to hear, that everyone on the stream lol'ed at your kelly's bashing and incite you to do more.
dont get me wrong i like your humor, but u really lack of manner sometimes.
You retweeted my message on Twitter regard the whole banning of the random guy for the GSL restreaming. You've more than expressed via Twitter and this post that you're definitely sorry for the remarks and behavior.
Please focus on the NASL and being the stand-up face of the organization that has the most invested in the NA StarCraft 2 scene—I'm sure you'll be successful with it. I never doubted that.
Looking forward to hearing you on State of the Games in the future and after I purchase that premium NASL ticket.
You on SOTG and your stream is a stroke of genius and I do believe you are the man to lead this movement. You are a great guy Geoff, keep up the good work!
The only real mistake was restreaming GSL. Other than that - bashing whoever you want and creating e-drama is just one of the things your fans love about you. And if people are butthurt and whine about it, it's even funnier.
Re-iterating the GSL bit, everyone has done their share of bad decisions at 3-4 AM, but you should really know better.
On February 26 2011 11:42 t3tsubo wrote: I caught this a little late, but for reference the explosion of hate on reddit was cause by the user Huko, because:
Huko [S] 196 points 1 day ago[-] He asked for a restream on his stream (because hes too famous to watch GomTV second link). His chat lead him to my stream where we happened to be having a debate whether Incontrol should be the face of NASL (Where I think strongly he should not be), he saw this and then banned me on TL permanently. For "Re-streaming GSL and being a huge prick".
regardless, the situation is what it is, and this apology is indeed the best move incontrol could make after those bad decisions. GL with NASL, this community is counting on you!
edit: it would seem TL is aware of this and revoked incontrol's banling status. Glad to see action being taken by TL as well
You probably didn't mean any harm, but some people read statements like this and can't distinguish between speculation and statement of fact. Stop making baseless assumptions. iNc stepped down from banling status in order to focus his effort on NASL.
On February 26 2011 11:42 t3tsubo wrote: I caught this a little late, but for reference the explosion of hate on reddit was cause by the user Huko, because:
Huko [S] 196 points 1 day ago[-] He asked for a restream on his stream (because hes too famous to watch GomTV second link). His chat lead him to my stream where we happened to be having a debate whether Incontrol should be the face of NASL (Where I think strongly he should not be), he saw this and then banned me on TL permanently. For "Re-streaming GSL and being a huge prick".
regardless, the situation is what it is, and this apology is indeed the best move incontrol could make after those bad decisions. GL with NASL, this community is counting on you!
edit: it would seem TL is aware of this and revoked incontrol's banling status. Glad to see action being taken by TL as well
You probably didn't mean any harm, but some people read statements like this and can't distinguish between speculation and statement of fact. Stop making baseless assumptions. iNc stepped down from banling status in order to focus his effort on NASL.
Geoff, I have to say I'm one of the small minority that has lost a bit of respect for you over the last few weeks (and no I don't like reddit), I've never been a Huge fan of TB, Kelly and even then restreaming GSL is not something that effects me personally.
When I watch SOTG (or basically anything else your in), I watch it because I want to hear funny shit about the starcraft community, I want to hear a bit of bashing, I don't even mind your shit Aussie accent while you fumble to get TB's right It's just that you seem so fake a lot of the time, you have double standards bro. You dish out a lot of shit to a lot of people, people in your stream, other Starcraft commentators, but you don't seem to be able to take it too well. I read you apology and you got it exactly right, it seemed at first like a martyr to me, simply because of the way I've heard you speak in the past.
Of course I'm not just here to bash you, I'm here because I want you to improve and be the face of esports in the west, I really believe that you're taking this small minority seriously, and it's a great thing. When new people are exposed to professional Starcraft through NASL I don't want them to become a part of this minority, I want NASL to be mainstream and that's going to take more than cheap laughs about accents.
Basically all I ask of you is that you keep your brilliant sense of humour and ditch the immature jokes that may or may not offend some people, everyone thinks your funny, but you don't have to do it at the expense of other people, I've never heard day9/tasteless/artosis say one bad thing about another person. They may say these things, but I've never heard it, and that's the difference.
I really hope you get to read this, and I'm honestly glad your taking it so seriously, it might seem like it's getting blown out of proportion to a lot of people, but to a few it's a big deal.
On February 26 2011 11:42 t3tsubo wrote: I caught this a little late, but for reference the explosion of hate on reddit was cause by the user Huko, because:
Huko [S] 196 points 1 day ago[-] He asked for a restream on his stream (because hes too famous to watch GomTV second link). His chat lead him to my stream where we happened to be having a debate whether Incontrol should be the face of NASL (Where I think strongly he should not be), he saw this and then banned me on TL permanently. For "Re-streaming GSL and being a huge prick".
regardless, the situation is what it is, and this apology is indeed the best move incontrol could make after those bad decisions. GL with NASL, this community is counting on you!
edit: it would seem TL is aware of this and revoked incontrol's banling status. Glad to see action being taken by TL as well
You probably didn't mean any harm, but some people read statements like this and can't distinguish between speculation and statement of fact. Stop making baseless assumptions. iNc stepped down from banling status in order to focus his effort on NASL.
In his defense, 99% of people are asked to step down before they are actually removed/force out/etc.
I think this is a really good move for incontrol. I'm glad he saw that he is "the face" of esports in the west now with the nasl coming soon. Its good to see that he is working on his professionalism. That didn't mean he has to stop joking, but he just needs to be more aware of who he is representing.
To those who say that he shouldn't change don't realize that in order to bring this to a higher stage he can't just mock people and troll or it won't go past the niche market.
If he holds true to his post, then I'm all for him leading.
I have no problem with incontrol bashing on people and I think it's funny, but yeah some of the posts and other stuff I've seen from him over the years gives me the impression that he's not very good at taking it. It doesn't make sense to tell others to get thicker skins while being somewhat sensitive and defensive yourself. Either learn to be better at taking the "hate" people throw at you and keeping "hating" on others in your usual funny way, or tone it down on your end and demand the same courtesy from others.
You earn a good amount of money with your coaching services. You play video games for a living. You are now the figure head for the biggest league in the west for Starcraft. You have a super hot girlfriend. You are a tank that could crush peoples skulls with a single hand.
The confusion lies in why on earth you feel the need to crash on everyone's parade all the time. Giving people a hard time and being a jerk can seem "funny", but it mostly reeks of insecurity. You expect it from lowly nerds living in basements, not high profile people.
Confident and successful people let their actions speak for them, and they don't feel the need to belittle other peoples efforts or go on about how amazing they are. Every time you get all sarcastic about criticism (especially on the internet), or tease other casters, all I can think to myself is "What is this guys problem? Why does he feel the need to be constantly trying to one-up everyone when they aren't even a threat?"
This is not an attack on who you are, you have proven yourself to be capable and you have been around the community a long time. This apology is a big step in a seemed understanding that you are now an important person and need to act like one. I think you'll find that it's actually a lot nicer when people like you because you are kind, than like you because you are a jerk and they are all jerks too.
On February 26 2011 10:41 Senx wrote: I really don't like that you give so much attention to that vocal minority. Don't change, keep making fun of people, keep being who you are.
This drama doesn't actually exist, I'm getting a bit annoyed that people are acting like it does.
You have nothing to apology for Geoff, NOTHING. People need to get thicker skin and stop acting like Geoff isn't entitled to his opinion or making light hearted jokes about people.
sigh..this community makes me very sad sometimes
Incontrol actually did more than making fun of people and restreaming GSL.
Why do people only respond to the "racism" and the "restreaming"? (i put quotes around these because he was hardly racist and he barely restreamed) I don't know why everyone keeps ignoring Geoffs OWN comments.
If you're trying to make Geoff look like an evil person you're way off the mark buddy.
Nit pick all you want, but understanding sarcasm, having thick skin and the realization that nobody is perfect will reach you eventually. Your nickname is very suiting to what you're doing on these boards.
The confusion lies in why on earth you feel the need to crash on everyone's parade all the time. Giving people a hard time and being a jerk can seem "funny", but it mostly reeks of insecurity. You expect it from lowly nerds living in basements, not high profile people.
If you can't take a little ribbing now and then, then I'm not sure who's the insecure one. How does he ever "belittle" people. First off, he always prefaces his "insults" with a praise or a compliment of that person. I don't understand how you people can take his jokes literally and seriously. I mean....you guys are kidding right? Sigh...I don't get how you think Inc is in any way a jerk.
Inc, keep it up. SoTG: Keep making fun of Tyler playing WoW and JP's awkward transitions. Keep up your commentary on your stream. Keep doing your impersonations. It's who you are and people need to start lightening up and stop taking everything so god damn serious.
On February 26 2011 12:40 TotalBiscuit wrote: If you actually think Incontrol is being racist by doing impersonations of people's accents then you're crazy, crazy people.
Thank you TotalBiscuit, thank you. I'm glad some people do have a good head on their shoulders.
On February 26 2011 12:35 Enzyme wrote: I think we're all just a little confused.
You earn a good amount of money with your coaching services. You play video games for a living. You are now the figure head for the biggest league in the west for Starcraft. You have a super hot girlfriend. You are a tank that could crush peoples skulls with a single hand.
The confusion lies in why on earth you feel the need to crash on everyone's parade all the time. Giving people a hard time and being a jerk can seem "funny", but it mostly reeks of insecurity. You expect it from lowly nerds living in basements, not high profile people.
Confident and successful people let their actions speak for them, and they don't feel the need to belittle other peoples efforts or go on about how amazing they are. Every time you get all sarcastic about criticism (especially on the internet), or tease other casters, all I can think to myself is "What is this guys problem? Why does he feel the need to be constantly trying to one-up everyone when they aren't even a threat?"
This is not an attack on who you are, you have proven yourself to be capable and you have been around the community a long time. This apology is a big step in a seemed understanding that you are now an important person and need to act like one. I think you'll find that it's actually a lot nicer when people like you because you are kind, than like you because you are a jerk and they are all jerks too.
He acted that way because many members of the community enjoyed it. There was a huge audience for his brand of humor, and he was happy to make them happy.
On February 26 2011 12:40 TotalBiscuit wrote: If you actually think Incontrol is being racist by doing impersonations of people's accents then you're crazy, crazy people.
I love your douche baggy ways incontrol. It's a shame so many people want you to change, nothing you've said has ever really been in poor taste, just gentle ribbing, at least in my opinion.
I think everyone can agree that there are many people on the e-sports scene that take their own persona WAY too seriously, and Incontrol was always a balance to that.
But he hurt those cocky egos, and is showing he can be the bigger man and not take himself so seriously by changing. Pretty sad situation, but a very impressive reaction.
On February 26 2011 05:14 Trozz wrote: The restream was bad, But I think you're a good guy. I'm still your fan, man. (:
This. And please dont neuter yourself. Even if you are being a dick we will all be your fans. Thats wat fans are. Blind in their support of something. We want to see the Geoff we all know and love. Just dont let Greg rub off too much in the way of his callousness towads other people. 'Cos while that fits him, it was a disconcerting to see you like that. GG Inc. Geoff hwaiiiitingg...
I think people are REALLY overreacting here, I completely understand if people were bothered by the re-stream because it is illegal and you are a prominent figure in the community. But honestly I can't believe people are bothered by you making fun of Kelly, I mean me and my friends make fun of Tasteless and Artosis when they say stupid shit on air all the time. Either way I hope you don't change to much, one of the things that got me into watching your stream/casts was when you were doing an interview with Artosis at the GSL qualifiers and you were trolling him in the interview. Also I'd probably never listen to SOTG again if you didn't joke on the show anymore. Either way GL with the NASL and hopefully you don't have to change to much
well lets be real here. incontrol's never had a good reputation. it's not like people were only mad about stuff that's happened recently. i'm sure he can get it all sorted out though.
I think people have been way overly harsh on you. Personally i hope you dont change your confrontational joking attitude. It makes State of the game and stream great...
Seriously, Dont quit state of the game. That show will have no conflict without you. It will die without your personality to contrast with JP and Tyler. If nothing else, dont quit state of the game Please!
Apology accepted. We all make mistakes. I'll see you in Dallas! (I live like 5 min from where MLG will be hehehe) ps: might rent out my couch for cheap. pm.
Your humor is far more acceptable then a lot of the trolling that passes for humor on the majority of forums on this great internet of ours (including TL). While you are human and are therefore liable to make mistakes from time to time on how you approach certain subjects, I do not think sterilizing your personality for the sake of the NASL will ultimately benefit you or the NASL.
People were attracted towards your gameplay because you infused it with humor and geeky analysis. You created your own persona that represented how you played and how you interpreted the community. Having that type of connection with people is invaluable, especially when growing a business.
If you would like some constructive criticism. Perhaps moving forward, marginalize the quips and criticisms directed at people outside the "immediate" TL circle, so to speak. For example, joking around with people and guests on SoTG is totally fine and expected. It is a much appreciated addition to the podcast. But when referencing new or external community members that who may be part of the e-sports scene but are not in step with the TL community, ease up a little. Offering some criticism is fine, but perhaps throttle back the more explicit humor and save that for friends and listeners "in the know".
I think the trick will be to find a balance where you do not overstep your boundaries as a professional player and figurehead of NASL, but still are able to carry over and infuse that humor and lightheartedness into both and personalize them.
I am just going to put this out there, but perhaps discuss this in private with someone like Day[9]. (No, I am not saying become Day[9]2.) But Sean seems to have grown from generic commentator to kind of his own brand. He has pulled back on a lot of the more explicit material in his humor but still has been able to incorporate that goofy sensibility in his cast and persona. Discovering that balance of sterile professional and wildly vibrant commentator is going to take some work, but I have no doubt you'll do it.
I want to preface this with some back story. Im a huge fan of Geoff's and have been since broodwar, I was one of the first people to take a chance being his student for an unproven starcraft coaching session. I even got drunk with him at blizzcon 09. I absolutely love this guy and everything hes done.
Now with that out of the way, I don't think that Geoff should be the face of the NASL. This has nothing to do with recent events or the man he has become. The problem I see is that when this blows up (not if) the boy Geoff used to be is going to cause a media fiasco. I think people will take some of his old documented actions the wrong way (racist/sexist/bad taste jokes etc etc) we may take this with stride but the rest of the world is too serious. I know other highly estemed people in the scene agree with what I'm writing here but I won't drop names.
I'm not suggesting Geoff quit the NASL but I'd rather some one less notorious for things they've done in the past becomes the brand. I love Geoffs involvment and enthusiasm and I want to see him as a major contribution to esports in the future.
Personally I think he should focus on being a baller player and a sweet coach and save the casting enthusiasm for after his playong career ends.
I was going to try to make you understand why you should tell the trolls to fuck off, but Mr. Katt Williams can do it so much better than I.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86to2IWTbzs
Listen to him! There are always going to be haters. People are managing to hate on you for spearheading a 400k dollar SC2 tournament in North America. Did you mess up some? Sure, who hasn't? You said you were sorry, and non-trolls understand that.
Don't let 12 year olds in their mom's basement ruin your life, or make you think that 99.9999% of the community doesn't think you kick ass. And for sure, don't let it tamp your spirit down, because a world without this
or this
is not a world I want to live in. Keep your pimp hand strong Incontrol, and 99.9999% of us will continue to think you a most righteous brohammer.
Everybody makes mistakes, man. I personally think that in this case the mistakes weren't super gigantic or anything, but even in the event that they were there's no reason to get too terribly phased by it. It's obvious that you care a whole lot about the community and eSports in general, and you're willing to put effort and time into that cause. That's all I really care about.
Not to mention the fact that your poking fun at people is the funniest material in the entire community. For me, nothing beats listening to you talk about Totalbiscuit or someone else on SotG in that manner, no matter how much some people may dislike it. I think it's not only something that spices things up, but it gives you your own recognizable, entertaining, and unique character that sets you apart from a lot of people.
I for one believe in your sincerity. Thanks for stepping up and apologizing. We are all trying to be better people everyday, but we all have to fall down to learn how to run better. Hopefully the community can move on, support NASL, MLG, GSL, TL, EG, etc. etc. etc. etc., and grow this thing into the biggest entertainment outlet ever!! Good luck with all of your endeavors.
I say their will always be haters and there is nothing you can do about it I love state of the game and your stream people just need to learn to take a joke. Also if people have a problem with things you do while not in a professional setting it shouldnt have anything to do with the NASL. As long as you bring the professionalism to that I dont see a problem with you having fun on your stream or other places. Your the best keep it up! GL at MLG
We need your personality, and if other people can't figure out for themselves that you're being sarcastic and humorous most of the time, then too bad imo. I hate to make a massive generalization and say "Well, if I'm not offended, then the rest of y'all haters are retarded..." but I haven't had a moment where I've not laughed are your awesome comments.
Keep em comin, imo, kudos to you for giving the haters an apology, even when they didn't deserve one.
Is this situation going to be addressed? Even though it was from the Louder era, you are still operating under the same brand. I am not sure where this falls under.
On February 16 2011 11:44 theshin2007 wrote: I wanted to preface the following by saying that I respect the players involved with this project and this is by no means meant to bash the site or start a flame war, but I felt this issue should be addressed.
So I did a search for any updates about the Gosuguide. As of 2/15/2011 there have been no updates, no roundtables, the only replay packs are dated 8-11-10 and 8-13-10. Several people are asking for refunds in the comments section. I was wondering what the current plans are for completing this guide or providing refunds for people who purchased?
You forgot to mention egotistical, glad you finally realized some things have to change.
I think you can be an extremely powerful face of eSports in the west, if you stick to everything you say in the post.
From what i've seen of your attitude i think it will be tough, but just remember everyone on TL supports you if you have a positive goal to reach, and we will be here to back you up.
The moment you stop being yourself, you start living a lie, and your dreams die.
First off, I'm of the opinion that the people raising hell over all this stuff are in the minority. I would wager that a far greater portion of the community loves you as you are now, and will be very sorry to see your personality die because of something like this. As the saying goes, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease", and I think that's what's happening now. The very few people that are getting up in arms about this are merely shouting the loudest, but they do NOT represent the majority.
To attach an analogy to my point that should fall right into place within this community: What if Blizzard balanced Starcraft based on the complaints on their forums? I'm sure everyone here has, at some point, seen the pages upon pages of complaints written in all caps regarding game balance that is the Bnet forums. Thankfully, in their infinite wisdom, Blizzard realizes that you can't let things be controlled by knee-jerk reactions to momentary trends amongst the loudest of your community.
That is exactly what I see here when I read about your upcoming changes; a knee-jerk reaction to the comments of very few, but very vocal posters within the community. I can only hope that you haven't stopped reading this thread already, and that you decide to be patient in making any changes.
Hate to see you being affected so much by all of this. Kinda sad to see you really being overly apologetic to the community. Some people really need to get thicker skin if they can't handle a little joking around. Saying you are going to be making changes and abandoning that joking personality is pretty lame because that is what makes things like SOTG and your stream so much more enjoyable.
Glad to see you're apologizing. Joking around is cool, perfect example: the horse jokes! hilarious! Joking around at someones expense is not... eg, Kelly... Bagging Sundance's name... etc... Just makes you look like a dick. Artosis jokes on the other hand are a different matter, you obviously are Really close friends so it is cool...
Restreaming GSL though? for a prominent member of the community like you who in roughly a month will be trying to do whatever he can to get people to purchase the NASL stream?
That's the lowest of lows... I kind of wish you went in to more of an apology on that issue.
You love e-sports? you love us all? you love starcraft 2? you love the community? Purchase a GSL stream -_-
The following is just a response to what happened over this drama over the last few days.
As a player who joined Teamliquid relatively late I actually didn't know you until maybe MLG Dallas when I saw you in the post MLG after show witha ll those interviews. I didn't think you were a douchebag or egotistical, at least in comparison to most people. To me you were just a stereotypical jock guy, (yelling GIT SOME), lifting weights, etc. With a twist though, you were also a video game nerd but still kept on that semi frat bro feel to you. Now I don't mean this in a negative way, my best friends are in fraternities, (pike to be exact). So overall I liked your personality, it was funny, social, confident, but also nerdy.
It however took a nasty turn when there was some tasteless comments about tasteless and milkies and just all that went on that night. I understand fun jabs at someone because thats how guys do, we cap on each other. But the way people were telling you to go on and how they were hanging on every word on it just turned me off. I find trash talking to be fun if it's for the sport of it or to hype things up. What was said went beyond it and went to IdrA level shit talking to where it's not for anything but just being... for the lack of better word... being a dick. In the chat's I and even in the live thread, IdrA Fans were hanging on to his everyword and talking about how IdrA called huk "such a little loser", or something. I mention IdrA because there are many fans of yours who also copy and imitate your words and follow them. So being careful with your words is a necessity if you want to be a role model for E-Sports at a level Day9 is. So I am very honestly impressed with your response to the whole fiasco. I wasn't a fan (or a hater) before, but definitely a fan now. Good luck with everything man.
I some times was listening to SotG and thought you were taking a mighty big swing at some people even if you said in the next sentence you were actually friends with them, but I never felt there was anything that warranted this shit storm people really should have noticed over time that you mean no ill. Now for the re-stream there is not much supportive words I can give you, you shot your own foot there big boy.
I hope you don't let the people talk get to you, take a page from kat williams book.
On February 26 2011 15:27 .Carnage wrote: making fun of someone then apologizing for it, sounds like you're being told to post this. =| or your really spineless.
That's really douchey of you. People make mistakes, it doesn't make him spineless. Just a lot of people don't get his humor.
It isn't spineless, he felt guilty about something he did so he's apologizing. It happens to everyone and its hard to apologize. I'm glad it seems like you learned your lesson about alot of issues regarding your humor. There are times where its funny and times where its uncomfortable.
I'll always be a fan of your play style and hard working attitude and your passion for the community but there are times where you have to draw the line and I'm glad you did.
People don't have the right to not be offended no matter how much their pussy hurts about a subject. You can scale it back again and admit when you're wrong, but anything besides that is listening to the vocalist of minorities who will bitch, complain, or cry about anything.
Incontrol I hear from tyler that you can bench 3 idras.
We love your humor and enthusiasm.
Mean spirited humor is always welcome in any business. I go to the University of Kansas and I love hearing Dick Vitale or Bob Knight trash talk the teams that come to our school and get stomped in basketball. I love hearing athletes trash talk others. It's great.
It's part of life man. You can't transcend humanity.
Remember, Heracles killed his entire family and then committed suicide by lighting himself on fire. Think about it. He ended up on Olympus, but that's just mythology bro.
Your apology and desire to improve are appreciated, and that's all anyone could ever ask of you.
People make mistakes, and do the wrong thing occasionally. This just proves you're human--that's all. Nobody's a saint. The fact that you're trying to do the right thing is the only relevant issue.
Keep whipping it real good, brotoss. Hope to see you on stream again sometime soon.
I can't believe the amount of over-serious, self-righteous nerd whining in this thread. Incontrol went to the trouble of making a serious apology and people are still trolling it.
Geoff, you're a successful pro-gamer with a beautiful girlfriend who is spearheading the biggest e-sports venture in NA history, and in general you are not a miserable basementnerd. You're never going to win the approval of the Internet Hate Machine. Just keep doing good work, anyone who matters has forgiven you.
Something else, while I'm here and reading ridiculous comments in this thread and reddit, I'm convinced that if anybody deserves an apology it is Incontrol himself, not nameless people who weren't even the target of any jokes. The amount of ridiculous shit he received over tiny, petty, comments blows my mind. The people talking about him "restreaming the gsl" have no clue what they're talking about.
People will always find something to complain about. For whatever reason, this week is merely 24/7 of Inc being targeted and blowing everything way, way, way, way, way out of proportion. Some of the responses people have given were as if they actually deserved an apology directly from Geoff. Shit makes me sick.
This seems more like an excuse for a community to gang up and collectively share a voice... even if it's on the dumbest subject ever.
On February 26 2011 14:35 bLuR wrote: You forgot to mention egotistical, glad you finally realized some things have to change.
I think you can be an extremely powerful face of eSports in the west, if you stick to everything you say in the post.
From what i've seen of your attitude i think it will be tough, but just remember everyone on TL supports you if you have a positive goal to reach, and we will be here to back you up.
I mean regardless of what you guys think about the people who make ridiculous comment(which I agree), I think that just makes it that much more admirable for InControl. He's going to be in a position where he's going to have to do his best to please everyone (though he won't be able to of course), him doing this shows how much he cares.
On February 26 2011 16:40 I_Love_Bacon wrote: Something else, while I'm here and reading ridiculous comments in this thread and reddit, I'm convinced that if anybody deserves an apology it is Incontrol himself, not nameless people who weren't even the target of any jokes. The amount of ridiculous shit he received over tiny, petty, comments blows my mind. The people talking about him "restreaming the gsl" have no clue what they're talking about.
People will always find something to complain about. For whatever reason, this week is merely 24/7 of Inc being targeted and blowing everything way, way, way, way, way out of proportion. Some of the responses people have given were as if they actually deserved an apology directly from Geoff. Shit makes me sick.
This seems more like an excuse for a community to gang up and collectively share a voice... even if it's on the dumbest subject ever.
I think Kelly should apologize to him for ruining everyones fun and asking him not to mock her anymore.
you never know where the line is until you cross it. the man apologized publicly and to my best interpretations, pretty sincerely... I personally understand people aren't perfect and mistakes can and will happen. Takes a big man to admit when he's wrong, and a bigger one to do something about it. I won't be holding this against iNcontroL and in fact am looking forward to NASL, his stream, SotG, and any other sc2 projects he's involved in. i will now move on by whipping my hair back and forth.
On February 26 2011 10:41 Senx wrote: I really don't like that you give so much attention to that vocal minority. Don't change, keep making fun of people, keep being who you are.
This drama doesn't actually exist, I'm getting a bit annoyed that people are acting like it does.
You have nothing to apology for Geoff, NOTHING. People need to get thicker skin and stop acting like Geoff isn't entitled to his opinion or making light hearted jokes about people.
sigh..this community makes me very sad sometimes
Incontrol actually did more than making fun of people and restreaming GSL.
Why do people only respond to the "racism" and the "restreaming"? (i put quotes around these because he was hardly racist and he barely restreamed) I don't know why everyone keeps ignoring Geoffs OWN comments.
If you're trying to make Geoff look like an evil person you're way off the mark buddy.
Nit pick all you want, but understanding sarcasm, having thick skin and the realization that nobody is perfect will reach you eventually. Your nickname is very suiting to what you're doing on these boards.
If I was trying to make him look evil, I would go on a crazy internet crusade and make things up, not come to this thread and post facts/things people actually said and did. Thick skin and sarcasm has nothing to do with my other posts, if you actually read them calmly and objectively you would know that. The only thing that could POSSIBLY be about sarcasm is when Incontrol referred to someone as a "random forum poster", and that was maybe 10% of the things I said.
If by nit picking, you mean actually reading everything that happened and forming an opinion on it (that incontrol did some not so good things, and has apologized for them so he is all good now) then yes, I am nitpicking. It seems people don't want to know everything that happened and would rather have half the story they like and move on.
I understand, fanboys gonna fan. I like Incontrol too, I literally stayed up late at night when I should have gone to sleep (incontrol doesn't stream at the most convenient time for east coasters), just to watch his stream because he is so fun to watch and listen to...but I guess to some people clearly naming everything that happened is "trying to make him look evil."
After reading these comments I am suprised how many of them is upset with iNcontrols actions, attitude or what ever you name it. I never paid it much attention and always thought of it as a part of his personality and the type of humor that exists on Internet, but as such thing are, many misinterpret as being rude and spiteful despite his intentions. Good of iNc to take the high-road and apologize, but I feel that he should have been given an apology from the part of the community that does nothing to promote e-sports other than complaining rudely and expect things to come to them for free on a silver platter.
And to make this post a truly suck-up post I feel I should post this too: Thank you, inc, for your work promoting sc2 and for the content you make for me to view and listen to.
I think the big problem with the Kelly thing was the timing. Given the amount of hate she was and still is getting once gom announced she was going to cast, it just sounded like you were joining the mass of kelly haters making fun of her for having a non american accent. While in your particular case you were poking fun at a friend, it just doesnt sound that way to everybody when on the day before threads have to be locked because they escalated into OMGLOLSHESUCKS being repeated for 20 pages. That said, this shows your profesionalism and should reassure everyone that you are indeed the man for this job.
imHuko, being one of the foremost critics of iNcontroL and the author of one of the larger reddit threads questioning iNc's ability to lead NASL, was in fact being sarcastic (i.e. sarcastically responding to those in this thread asserting that inc had nothing to apologize for). Doesn't translate well over the internet, but there it is. OBSOLETE'D
I watch your stream regularly, and am a big fan of not only you as a person but also what you are trying to do for the community more generally. I support you.
However, you're actions with the GSL restream disappoint me greatly. This action is a direct affront to what you are trying to get everyone to step forward with you on. Some people here might think it's not a big deal, but I'm sure if you reflect on it, you understand how big of a step backwards it is symbolically. I think you'd be pretty upset at someone restreaming NASL, who defended themselves with the excuses you used. You would not think them an appropriate ambassador for the community.
But it seems like you are a genuinely reflective person, so as long as you recognize your errors and go forward with a commitment to do right, then all is good. Best of luck.
On February 26 2011 17:11 kellymilkies wrote: xoxo peace out
If the person who got made fun of is cool and sending her love, that should pretty much settle things on that side of the issue.
But seriously Incontrol. Restreaming Gom? Yeesh.
As someone who also has a tendency to let his words and actions land him into hot water, all I can say is: suck it up (which you are), admit when you were wrong (that's on point), and learn from your mistakes (looks like you got that one covered too).
Your personality and your joking around are part of what makes you such a good promoter for the NASL. Clearly you made some mistakes, but a completely serious iNcontroL is no good.
Like Brood said:
On February 26 2011 06:15 BroOd wrote: It's all about figuring out what's appropriate and when, and that's not always immediately obvious. Sometimes you don't see the barrier until you crash into it. Once you find that happy medium, you'll be golden, it's when you stray to far to either side of the spectrum that you run into problems.
I can tell that you take this very seriously, so I have no doubt you'll make the right adjustments. Just don't change too much
I think you're a good personality. I enjoy listening to you on SotG and occasionally your stream.
That said, I actually agree with the 'haters' in that I consider you the wrong type of personality for the front man of NASL. So if you do indeed want to continue, I appreciate the effort to make changes.
Of course, you wont be judged by this post, but rather your conduct over the coming 12 months or so
I really think for the sake of entertainment you need to still do totalbiscuit impersonations. It is great for the community. I showed many of my friends who don't know anything about starcraft totalbiscuit casting followed by you immitating them and they found it incredibly hilarious. This sparked them to look at more stuff from you, which slowly has intrigued them towards starcraft 2 as well.
Sometime you are very funny and entertaining, sometime you are harsh with others, I suppose it's easy to cross to line from one point to another. And mistakes are human.
Saying that iNcontroL was restreaming GSL is stretching the term to it's outermost limits. I was there, live, as it happened. I can tell you that, though it was on screen periodically, one could HARDLY consider that restreaming. Most of that [very short] period of time was spent clicking on links from his stream chat or stuff that JP linked him to which mostly contained random .gifs and youtube videos. Very little screen-time was allotted to the GSL. During the short spans when it WAS on, it was muted, non-fullscreen, and he and JP and IdrA were merely commenting on the games.
It was basically like the Mystery Science Theater 3000 (MST3K) crew was watching a few SC2 games and constantly getting distracted by shiny things on the Internet.
Furthermore, when an Admin of JTV got into the stream chat and got iNcontroL's attention to notify him that he wasn't allowed to stream GOM, he instantly stopped.
The above is 1 of the 3 "infringements" that people keep bringing up. The other 2 are asking for a link to a restream/banning Huko (I put them together because apart, they aren't a big deal at all), and doing Kelly impressions.
Now, the issue concerning Kelly was blown so far out of proportion that it makes my head hurt. It should be stated first that he and Kelly knew each other before there was any controversy. Second, impressions of people is something iNcontroL has been known for a long time now, and I would hope that everyone knows by now that there's no ill will behind them.
As I understand it, Kelly asked him directly to ease up on the impressions, and he promptly apologized to her personally and stopped. Furthermore, I can attest personally that he had been banning several people from his stream for talking bad about her. There is no animosity here. Kelly comes to his stream all the time to chat and hang out. Hell, I'm guessing that Kelly asking him to stop had more to do with her own situation dealing with the community over her GSL casting than it did with her being offended.
From what I've been able to put together, the 3rd situation started when he asked in his stream chat for a link to a restream for the GSL. Why he did that, I couldn't say. He's stated in the past that he's had trouble with the GOM website, and I know for a fact that the GOM player stream was down for a fair amount of time that night (and I was using the pay stream, so it goes without saying that the free stream was down too). I had to find a URL for VLC player just to watch Jinro.
But anyway, so he gets a link to a restream, which happens to be Huko. I wasn't there for this, but what I heard is that there was a lot of trash talk going on in Huko's stream specifically against iNcontroL. I don't know if it was in his chat or if he was saying the stuff to his stream. In any case, iNcontroL was there listening to it for a while (supposedly about an hour). Eventually, he got fed up with it, went to ban Huko for restreaming, and found that Huko had, in fact, been banned for restreaming GOM before.
THAT BEING SAID, he probably should have let it go. It was somewhat hypocritical of him to ban Huko for restreaming when he was the one asking for a link to a restream. Personally, I feel that his own association with restreaming from the past was unfortunate, but I don't think that THAT incident should have had any bearing on his decision to ban Huko.
So, as you can see, 2 of these 3 situations were blown WAY WAY WAY out of proportion. The 3rd situation would have me a little red in the face, but certainly does NOT warrant this kind of backlash. More importantly, NONE OF THESE INCIDENTS ARE RELATED! People keep getting all the facts mixed up and it turns into some giant scandal, and it's bullshit. People keep painting iNcontroL as the bad guy here, but that's so obviously not the case.
The worst part of all of this is that people keep bringing up the NASL. Why?!? It has NOTHING to do with this. Do people really think that iNcontroL being himself on his stream and SotG is going to affect the NASL whatsoever? I mean seriously, the NASL is certainly going to make eSports and SC2 bigger, but it's not like it's going to become a household name overnight. If sponsors and the such DID care about all this crap going down here, it's ONLY because people are making such a huge deal out of it. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. You whip 50 nerds up into a frenzy shouting that someone is making eSports look bad and get a dozen threads up to 20 pages and of COURSE sponsors are going to look at that say "Hmmm, this is getting some bad publicity, we'd better step in", when all you had to do from the start was get the whole goddamn story before posting and realize that it's not even worth mentioning!
/rant
I could say so much more, but this is already an epic wall of text that I doubt very many people will even bother reading.
On February 26 2011 05:48 vrok wrote: I just think that sometimes the joking is a bit too personal and disrespectful-sounding, more like bullying. While as a normal person among friends that can no doubt be absolutely hilarious, it's not too becoming when it comes from a professional player and caster regarding other players and casters.
Artosis is (or used to be) pretty similar I feel, but he has toned it down some and to me done it just the right amount as well. I feel if you just tone down some of the more extreme stuff that we all know (and usually like) you're just saying to get people riled up, it would be ok. I recognize the situation because I'm exactly like that myself and have to make an effort among strangers I don't wish to offend too much, to restrain myself and my candid humor to a somewhat more appropriate level. You don't have to go all the way and become a children's program host though like Day9.
I've never been much of a fan before but I will wish you good luck in your career and personal development so hopefully I and many others can become fans some day.
This sums up a lot of my own thoughts. I think you've frequently over-stepped the mark in the past, but at least you realise it and you're stating that you're committed to change for the better.
Artosis has toned down and made his image considerably more professional. This has led some to not even knowing he was ever considered a BM player/person. I think that's great. I never knew that side of him, but I've seen posts and examples from the past and heard veterans speak of it.
I think modulating your personality to fit a role is reasonable and mature. I think this apology thread was a good idea to clear up any ill-feeling from the majority of your critics. The minority will likely be unappeased, but only time will tell whether they were right all along. In any case, I wish you all the best in this new profession and hope it works out to everyone's advantage.
On February 26 2011 14:31 Manifesto7 wrote: Is this situation going to be addressed? Even though it was from the Louder era, you are still operating under the same brand. I am not sure where this falls under.
On February 16 2011 11:44 theshin2007 wrote: I wanted to preface the following by saying that I respect the players involved with this project and this is by no means meant to bash the site or start a flame war, but I felt this issue should be addressed.
So I did a search for any updates about the Gosuguide. As of 2/15/2011 there have been no updates, no roundtables, the only replay packs are dated 8-11-10 and 8-13-10. Several people are asking for refunds in the comments section. I was wondering what the current plans are for completing this guide or providing refunds for people who purchased?
This is somewhat disturbing though. It would be nice to be reassured about it.
I'm neither here nor there with you, to be honest.
Saying that, I was one of the people who questioned about your ability to lead NASL into what it potentially could be.
I have the ability, the passion, the time and the desire. You may think you can name better people but for now you may just have to trust me that there are no others with these factors in alignment with their abilities.
Now if we look at that statement, that's something a VERY confident person would say, someone who generally has experience in dealing with something on this scale, do you? I mean do you have the experience of leading a potentially huge scale tournament, and being the face of it to a totally new crowd of gamers and public?
Also, you could name any person who could say they have the passion, time and desire to do something, that's the kind of rubbish that I read on CV's (resumes for you Americans) and instantly make me put them in the bin, they're pretty redundant.
I wish you all the luck in the world, we NEED this tournament to do well and continue far past it's 3 season course, and it's up to you to prove that it's viable to do so. I hope you're mature enough to see this not as just a gaming venture, and that serious decisions and real experience is going to be needed. Personality aside, I hope you have it.
You were wrong, so don't do it again! You are a joker, you always have been but there are limits now that you have that responsability. So just stop pushing it that far and behave better so that you don't get this hate and criticism!
Ever since i entered this community you have been one of the guys that does more stuff for the community and people forget that very easily. Keep working dude for you dream, i'm with you.
But anyway, so he gets a link to a restream, which happens to be Huko. I wasn't there for this, but what I heard is that there was a lot of trash talk going on in Huko's stream specifically against iNcontroL. I don't know if it was in his chat or if he was saying the stuff to his stream. In any case, iNcontroL was there listening to it for a while (supposedly about an hour). Eventually, he got fed up with it, went to ban Huko for restreaming, and found that Huko had, in fact, been banned for restreaming GOM before.
Sorry I was randomly just reading the support for incontrol(which I totally support) and then I saw your post and felt compelled to tell you that you have the story wrong (essentially). Huko does NOT use a mic. So therefore iNcontrol could've easily ignored chat(full of trolls anyway). I just want you to see how bad this makes iNcontrol looks especially because he is a huge face of NASL. I'm sorry for replying but I feel you are misjudging all who were against iNcontrol before he apologized. That being said, iNcontrol is freaking awesome and I totally misjudged him (which I apologize for).
Sorry for ranting on your rant, but I feel most people here probably weren't watching huko's stream.
On February 26 2011 09:49 Corrupted wrote: This is the one thing I've hated in life more than anything.
A few idiots act like fools and ruin the fun for everyone. I'm pretty sure this started when my first grade teacher decided to punish the whole class with no recess because one idiot in the class couldn't stop causing trouble. He had no trouble missing recess while the rest of the class was punished. He won!
Same thing happens throughout life. Rules get put in place that punish everyone because one person does something stupid.
Now we have Geoff, the most interesting and entertaining figure in all of esports, claiming that he's going to punish everyone by changing his public personality because a few idiots feel the need to tear him down. I really don't know if I blame the idiots, or Geoff more for this.
Since Geoff started his stream (and maybe before this with SotG), he has consistently overreacted to the insanely serious, insanely vocal minority. This is clearly another example of that. There is a reason he has the most viewed stream on the site even though he just barely has gotten started. There is a reason he gets more comments made about him on the TL forums than any other figure. There is a reason the NASL.tv chose him. It is all because he is who he is. Changing that is incredibly counterproductive to everything.
Incontrol needs to take a lesson from Tasteless who on GOM regularly pokes at the serious nerds who think it is important to tell everyone what they think they are doing wrong. These people are idiots who will always be there trying to drag you down no matter how good you do or how far you go. You have to know within yourself that the things you do are done lighthearted and come from a good place which is the only basis for judging anything.
Focus on yourself and not the never-ending commentary that will surely follow you. If someone above you (a boss or respected friend), gives you feedback...then absolutely re-evaluate. However, letting anonymous internet trolls change who you are is a serious miscalculation of what is needed to make yourself and your endeavors successful.
This. This. This.
You've done what you can. You made a mistake, you apologized. What else can you possibly do? I just hope that you can act going forward like this never happened.
EDIT: I just want to clarify...obviously it happened and you learn from those mistakes. I just hope when you're on SoTG, stream, or NASL you act like this never happened or there isn't a bunch of haters that will hate you no matter what you do.
With that in mind I want to beg you to trust that I am dedicated to doing this as best as I can. It is clear that means making changes. I am a public figure to a degree that previously was never realized by myself. I am no longer the joking or "douchy" persona on a podcast, streamer, EG captain or w/e... I am the face of a movement that is important to us all. As such I am prepared to make changes. A lot of people will see me announcing these changes as some kind of "martyring" but I can assure you I seek no such emotions. I truly believe what I did was wrong and sustaining that behavior would be a continued disservice to myself, those that have entrusted me with this role and the community I love.
Well said, you have me sold.
I really think you need to stop ripping into other players/tournaments/casters. Apart from that i do not think you need to step back to much, just give a politcly correct answer whenever you are talking about someone else in the "scene".
Geoff! Over the years there have been people in the community who didn't like you, but they were the minority. Your personality, your edge and your charisma are what got you where you are, along with being an elite player.
You made a mistake in mocking Kelly and restreaming GSL, but let's be honest, many people on TL are restreaming GSLs, and while it's not condoned, it's not actively discouraged either. It's true that I've seen people warned in the past for positng restreams, but stream summaries often blatantly advertise that they are restreaming on TL, and they are left to do so. Still, in your position it is not acceptable, but you have admitted as much and apologized.
You're an intelligent guy, and you learn from your mistakes. There's no reason to sterilize your personality and limit your exposure to the community. By doing that, you'll only hurt NASL and the SC community. Without sounding patronizing, I'd say that you are a large part of what makes the community fun to be a part of. Please don't build a wall around your personality.
That might mean that you'll still make mistakes in the future, and there will be a chance of failure. But if you close yourself off, you are sure to fail. Continue to be the person who has won the hearts of so may in our community, and you are likely to succeed. Be iNcontrol and your martial spirit will come through from within. =)
Edit: BTW reddit is a pretty cool site. Judge individuals, don't over generalize like an asshat people.
People are allowed to make mistakes. I wasn't InControls biggest fan after a few comments he made earlier, but in the long run I've really warmed to the big fella. People who can't seem to forgive him are just stubborn. He did a mistake, he owned up to it, and he is sorry. I for one believe in second chances, and I know you'll do well with the NASL Geoff.
I find it really hard to believe that people actually bring up racism when talking about Kellys accent being poked fun at. Her job is to commentate which is obviously a job that demands being fluent or at least having decent pronunciation(she doesn't have either of these), which is the reason why most people poke fun at her, NOT because they're racist.
And don't come up with the bullshit that she can't help herself from talking like that. I spoke shitty English when i started learning it (my fourth language mind you).Yet by practicing pronunciation i became fluent to the point that most people think its my native language and i know plenty of people that are able to change accents on the spot. Its hardly out of her hands, so hopefully she works towards that goal.
Incontrol you are not an Asshole, you are more a kind of person who wanna hide his fear behind some kind of "forced controlism". You try way too hard to be the "strong dude" the dude who checks everything and stays on top of the mountain ... if you will proceed with this behavior you will never become a "charismatic" person ..
Why are people taking so much offense to InControl making fun of Kelly's accent anyway? I have the exact same accent. I myself KNOW that it's hard to understand and so I enjoying making fun of it myself.
InControl, you're a great guy. I love you and thanks for everything you're doing for the community <3
On February 26 2011 20:07 Motion wrote: Incontrol you are not an Asshole, you are more a kind of person who wanna hide his fear behind some kind of "forced controlism". You try way too hard to be the "strong dude" the dude who checks everything and stays on top of the mountain ... if you will proceed with this behavior you will never become a "charismatic" person ..
Maybe you meant a different word here. It would be pretty hard to argue that iNcontrol isn't charismatic.
dont change a thing imo, youre jokes and all that are amusing, and your rants and arguments are always entertaining, although such a role that you have taken is going to be a very public one, i hope there are many great times ahead and many more rants and inapropraite jokes
What you are doing for the SC2 community is amazing, and be assured that as you love us, we love you
Hey, iNcontroL. First post here (obviously). I'm not a person who's on the in-crowd of StarCraft, but I take an interest, mostly reading my news at reddit, stopping by here once in a while, and checking out the GSL, etc. Just so you know where I'm coming from. Here's my take on the whole thing:
You made a couple mistakes at the exact wrong time to make them. Oh well, can't change that, shit happens. But the reason it turned into a shitstorm, IMO, was the fact that people who didn't previously know you and what you were about caught wind of these ...transgressions (probably not the best word, but meh) without knowing your joking nature and took them literally. That combined with your newfound status as the figurehead of the NASL, which most people are looking to with very guarded optimism, blew up.
That said, I think you can still be your own jokey, fun-time-havin' self, just be sure to: a) make sure what channels are you as a person, and where you're acting as an NASL rep, and b) to reduce your overall exposure outside of NASL repping until the league gets started. I'm pretty sure that once the NASL gets started, it'll be awesome or not so awesome (hopefully awesome) on its own merits, and not because of anything you say or do (assuming you don't do anything egregious).
So, I don't know if you care what this random dude on the internet has to say, but there are my two cents.
I do not think that you did anything wrong besides the GSL restream. I love everything you do including all the mockerys and giving people a hard good time. You are one of the risen i like esport, because of people like you it has personality!
INcontroL your awesome, at the end of it all this is just a game, were supposed to have fun and enjoy it, and this drama is just unneccesary. I don't think it was right to re stream GSL, but I can't see why doinig that one little thing would make people hate you. Your awesome, nuff said imo.
I wrote it on twitter and I think its my proper response to this post Geoff. The haters are the ones who talk, the supporters, the people with faith, sit back and watch success.
I've been with you in ventrilo more than a few times and know what your joking manner is and one thing you don't joke about is a serious apology, hell, the community, especially the newer members of it, need to realize coaxing an apology out of you isn't easy to do.
I wish you the best of success, because you really do work hard for this community.
restreaming gsl was plain stupidity but overall I honestly can not see a problem with your behaviour, Incontrol. paying attention to criticism is good but dpon't let it make you toothless.
Well, that's great and all but... you really only have to apologize to me for that showmatch being out of sync, and that probably wasn't even your fault. The rest is just what I love you for. But whatever, you be what you wanna be and I'll watch if it's any good, and tell you that you suck if you suck in my eyes. Constructive hate.
Also, Artosis is the fucking man. Sooooo good. Just saying.
You are a good caster. That is not something I say lightly. Cant even name 10 good casters. I do think the Kelly-hate was blown out of proportion. I mean, they could have brought in Husky or HD. /shiver
As for being offended? No. And I will never be by someone "being stupid" on the internet (not implying that you were, just, you know). Did I particularly enjoy this joke? No, not really.
Should you stop? No. I might miss something really funny just because you thought you had to sensor yourself. That would offend me.
Restreaming GSL is only thing u have to apologize, other apologies just feed the trolls. Don't change your self, not for NASL not for anybody. This whole shit was blown out of proportions for the N-th time. Yes you represent the NASL, but changing your behaviour on TL/SOTG/JTV because you have a sense of humor is stupid. As much as is stupid to say on the "internets", people, get a life and get laid, contribute with something. SC2 comunity allready has day9 to be Mr.Nice Guy, we need someone who will speak their mind, be funny at that, and bash and rant about pretty much everything.
@kelly "incident" i love her, she's great and i fully support her, but she speaks funny and thats the fact. Making fun of something is the most normal thing in the world and stereotypes are base of 90% of jokes.
If u "change" yourself on TL/SOTG beacuse of bunch of internet trolls, than you become a little bitch. And i for sure wont watch your stream or listen to SOTG cuz thats who you are and why people love you. Proffesionalisam aside, if you are not speaking OFFICIALY IN NASL NAME, you have full rights to speak your mind.
Again, don't bend over and take it in the ass. Love <3
On February 26 2011 18:58 Sylvr wrote: Saying that iNcontroL was restreaming GSL is stretching the term to it's outermost limits. I was there, live, as it happened. I can tell you that, though it was on screen periodically, one could HARDLY consider that restreaming. Most of that [very short] period of time was spent clicking on links from his stream chat or stuff that JP linked him to which mostly contained random .gifs and youtube videos. Very little screen-time was allotted to the GSL. During the short spans when it WAS on, it was muted, non-fullscreen, and he and JP and IdrA were merely commenting on the games.
It was basically like the Mystery Science Theater 3000 (MST3K) crew was watching a few SC2 games and constantly getting distracted by shiny things on the Internet.
Furthermore, when an Admin of JTV got into the stream chat and got iNcontroL's attention to notify him that he wasn't allowed to stream GOM, he instantly stopped.
The above is 1 of the 3 "infringements" that people keep bringing up. The other 2 are asking for a link to a restream/banning Huko (I put them together because apart, they aren't a big deal at all), and doing Kelly impressions.
Now, the issue concerning Kelly was blown so far out of proportion that it makes my head hurt. It should be stated first that he and Kelly knew each other before there was any controversy. Second, impressions of people is something iNcontroL has been known for a long time now, and I would hope that everyone knows by now that there's no ill will behind them.
As I understand it, Kelly asked him directly to ease up on the impressions, and he promptly apologized to her personally and stopped. Furthermore, I can attest personally that he had been banning several people from his stream for talking bad about her. There is no animosity here. Kelly comes to his stream all the time to chat and hang out. Hell, I'm guessing that Kelly asking him to stop had more to do with her own situation dealing with the community over her GSL casting than it did with her being offended.
From what I've been able to put together, the 3rd situation started when he asked in his stream chat for a link to a restream for the GSL. Why he did that, I couldn't say. He's stated in the past that he's had trouble with the GOM website, and I know for a fact that the GOM player stream was down for a fair amount of time that night (and I was using the pay stream, so it goes without saying that the free stream was down too). I had to find a URL for VLC player just to watch Jinro. But anyway, so he gets a link to a restream, which happens to be Huko. I wasn't there for this, but what I heard is that there was a lot of trash talk going on in Huko's stream specifically against iNcontroL. I don't know if it was in his chat or if he was saying the stuff to his stream. In any case, iNcontroL was there listening to it for a while (supposedly about an hour). Eventually, he got fed up with it, went to ban Huko for restreaming, and found that Huko had, in fact, been banned for restreaming GOM before.
THAT BEING SAID, he probably should have let it go. It was somewhat hypocritical of him to ban Huko for restreaming when he was the one asking for a link to a restream. Personally, I feel that his own association with restreaming from the past was unfortunate, but I don't think that THAT incident should have had any bearing on his decision to ban Huko.
So, as you can see, 2 of these 3 situations were blown WAY WAY WAY out of proportion. The 3rd situation would have me a little red in the face, but certainly does NOT warrant this kind of backlash. More importantly, NONE OF THESE INCIDENTS ARE RELATED! People keep getting all the facts mixed up and it turns into some giant scandal, and it's bullshit. People keep painting iNcontroL as the bad guy here, but that's so obviously not the case.
The worst part of all of this is that people keep bringing up the NASL. Why?!? It has NOTHING to do with this. Do people really think that iNcontroL being himself on his stream and SotG is going to affect the NASL whatsoever? I mean seriously, the NASL is certainly going to make eSports and SC2 bigger, but it's not like it's going to become a household name overnight. If sponsors and the such DID care about all this crap going down here, it's ONLY because people are making such a huge deal out of it. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. You whip 50 nerds up into a frenzy shouting that someone is making eSports look bad and get a dozen threads up to 20 pages and of COURSE sponsors are going to look at that say "Hmmm, this is getting some bad publicity, we'd better step in", when all you had to do from the start was get the whole goddamn story before posting and realize that it's not even worth mentioning!
/rant
I could say so much more, but this is already an epic wall of text that I doubt very many people will even bother reading.
He banned strictly for personal reasons, which he apologized for as well in the other thread, but didn't mention here.
I'm not a fan for iNcontrol on a personal level, but its obvious to EVERYONE that he has the level of passion required in order to make western Esports work.
Its a tough time initially for any "representative" of a product/company/group. As a representative, you have to realize that what you're personally saying is almost coming out of the people your representing.
I feel for him a though. What he said in regards to Kelly was wrong, and immature, but to him it was clearly just a bit of a poke at some fun. Those days are over.
iNcontrol has handled this well. I hope for the sake of esports that he meant, and acts on every word he said.
I honestly just dont think incontrol is qualified to be a figurehead in NASL. His entertaining douche persona in sotg is not good for NASL and e-sports. He is fun to listen to because he's a comedian, but that's it.
While I was hoping this thread would never be made, I expected it to be. Stop the bloody pitty party Incontrol. What you did might have been immature, but the aftermath is what really takes the cake. You're supposed to be representing a new enterprise, start acting like it. In what will hopefully be a long and fruitful career in E-sports you will say much worse things to much more important people, everyone does that. Everyone fucks up sometimes and when you look back at it you wonder how the hell you could have ever been that stupid. That's not what being professional is about, it's about how you deal with those situations.
This has been handled like some 15 year old crying out on the internet beging people to say that they still love him. This is how adult life is, you fuck up and you repair, rince and repeat. It's time to grab life by the balls and grow up.
On February 26 2011 22:52 bistri wrote:
@kelly "incident" i love her, she's great and i fully support her, but she speaks funny and thats the fact. Making fun of something is the most normal thing in the world and stereotypes are base of 90% of jokes.
If u "change" yourself on TL/SOTG beacuse of bunch of internet trolls, than you become a little bitch. And i for sure wont watch your stream or listen to SOTG cuz thats who you are and why people love you. Proffesionalisam aside, if you are not speaking OFFICIALY IN NASL NAME, you have full rights to speak your mind.
Mocking someone with nothing but malice isn't ok. There was no hint of any kind of gleam in the corner of his eyes, just pure malice. He is the face for NASL for many, he doesn't get time off for that. You can not say whatever you like if you are representing something, not even on your spare time.
Professionalism isn't being super nice and not stepping on anyones toes. It's sticking to a set of principles and most of all, being true to your word. If you're upfront about what kind of commentary and persona you bring to the table, no one can fault you for then actually DOING it exactly as you said you would. If you make people aware of what they're getting when they get incontrol, then you are being professional.
If you think the most effective way to represent the NASL and promote yourself as a SC2 personality is to play it safe, you're dooming yourself. You need to be 100% incontrol in front of that camera when it comes time to cast those games or you're going to lose the people who support you. If your commentary isn't good enough to remix into an awesome song, you're doing something wrong. Your comments can be harsh but they're never mean-spirited. People get sensitive about stupid crap and there's nothing you can do about it. If they had a chat with you I'm sure they'd have no problems.
The negative comments are still going to sting, but do not let them intimidate you. That way leads to fear. And fear is the mind-killer.
I'm still gonna support NASL and think it's an amazing idea. We have to use this time to let e-sports grow much more in the west. I see a lot of negativity from the people on TL and of course those people are just dead weight. I really can't believe some people.
On the PR side of things, you're definitely gonna have to watch what you say and keep it amongst the closest of friends because if you are indeed going be the face of NASL, the last thing you want is to start off with bad publicity.
Other than that, i will support NASL to the fullest and of course it's going to be a bumpy start! With such an amazing announcement/big movement in e-sports, you wanna do everything in your power to not let this baby die!
So, iNcontrol.. i wish for the best and hope to be there at the Rancho Cucamonga studio as much as possible to support you guys to the fullest. It's only a few minutes away from me too! =]
Don't worry too much about it Incontrol. I actually enjoying listening to you guys while watching the GSL stream with the sound off. That it's actually an issue that you 'restreamed' the GSL is stupid tbh because there wasn't much to see. And although you were a bit harsh against Kelly I think you made it clear (both in posts and on SOTG) that you have nothing against her. I like your sense of humor (and your TB impressions ) so don't get too uptight!
While I have to admit I was a pretty big Incontrol anti-fan for a while now (even though I've rarely posted on TL about it), I have to appreciate the effort and sentiment that went into this blog post, and I imagine it wasn't an easy thing to do.
I hope you stick to this decision instead of listening to "fans" who suggest otherwise - they only want internet drama and a bandwagon to jump on, and the SC community was never and will never be about that. Likewise I hope people in the other camp will know how to respect what you did here instead of keeping a grudge and continuing on some mindless witch hunt.
For this blog post alone, you got yourself a semi-fan in myself for what it's worth. Best of luck Incontrol.
PS. Can we now get rid of the 5 players per team rule? xD
incontrol you're so much funnier than me, more famous, have a hotter girl, and you do what you love for a living. unacceptable, you're better off than me I MUST TRY TO SHUT YOU UP
am i the only one who keeps thinking of lets talk about sex baby when i see the title of this blog?
aside from that i hope you keep being awesome geoff, please don't stop being yourself on your stream and on this board because of silly anti fans, that why we're all members of your fanclub! as for the rest of it its just a bunch of shit thats absolutely nothing to do with any of the people complaining about it
@kelly "incident" i love her, she's great and i fully support her, but she speaks funny and thats the fact. Making fun of something is the most normal thing in the world and stereotypes are base of 90% of jokes.
If u "change" yourself on TL/SOTG beacuse of bunch of internet trolls, than you become a little bitch. And i for sure wont watch your stream or listen to SOTG cuz thats who you are and why people love you. Proffesionalisam aside, if you are not speaking OFFICIALY IN NASL NAME, you have full rights to speak your mind.
Mocking someone with nothing but malice isn't ok. There was no hint of any kind of gleam in the corner of his eyes, just pure malice.
Sounds like you're doing too much creeping in the bushes outside of his house trying to peak in...
I thought it was pretty standardized by now that he knows Kelly on a personal level and there was no malicious intent. But if you choose to ignore all of this I guess it is your prerogative.
To be honest I haven't heard you 'bitching' on Kelly, and if I had i would've felt it was wrong. She didn't even finish casting her first game and she got bashed to the ground by the community, a sad sight. I mean she's not the best, maybe not the best for the job, that's discusable but she's trying hard and all-in-all she's not doing a horrible job. That aside though. I appreciate you showing you want to change yourself since you're now a figure of the e-sport community and when the NASL kicks off possible one of the major figures 'promoting' e-sports/SC2 in the NA/non-korean scene. I don't know you well enough to say anythign meaning full but what I know is that everyone who wants to change should deserve a chance! Go for it iNcontrol, help e-sports get all hype!
On February 26 2011 09:23 leakingpear wrote: Honestly I can understand changing to a more watered down 'professional' attitude if it was insisted by the TV station/event producer, even if I don't approve of it, what I can't understand is advocating people do it ahead of time in order to appease some imaginary sponsor/TV station that decides what to broadcast based on this arbitrary and easily fixable metric of professionalism over actual properties that matter like popularity, charismatic figures and how easy it is to get into.
Ok, so if a basketball player who does crack and gets into physical fights is trying to get into the NBA, you would tell him," No, no, you may be popular in your neighborhood and your demeanor creates controversy, but don't change unless someone from the NBA Actually TELLS you to change." is your mindset?
There is nothing wrong with trying to create a more professional image, and I'm sure Geoff would know better than me and you what direction he is going and what he is trying to achieve. If he has made this post, I'm sure he took into consideration a great deal of factors to make this post.
And by the way, it's not an "imaginary sponsor." NASL _IS_ being sponsored by something real.
I still stand by my original post.
How on earth do you read my post then reply with that many misconceptions about what I said?
Why are you trying to make an analogy to a basketball player in an already established sport beating people up and smoking crack to someone casting an SC2 league (an unestablished sport) having divisive opinions and making fun of other luminaries in the SC2 scene?! They're not at all similar, I mean really you're comparing a kellymilkies impression to advocating the use of crack?
The second paragraph again completely misses the point of my post, 'a more professional image' is such an insanely subjective term, not only because now you've made it relative to whatever a 'less professional image' is, but also because the gamut of opinion with regards to what constitutes commentator professionalism seems be wider than the grand canyon.
And the imaginary sponsor thing... REALLY? How on earth did you get from my post that I was saying the NASL didn't have an actual sponsor?! I can't comprehend how you can miss the point of my post so entirely as to post that. Incontrol didn't post on here because the sponsors told him to act more like john madden, he's asking ahead of time whether he should dilute himself for the sake of 'e-sports' as a whole. My entire point is that doing this in advance is ridiculous because it's not a factor taking seriously by TV producers and sponsors, yes they obviously don't want people actively shitting on their product, but if a lot of the appeal of Inc as a caster is his honesty and this results in a more accessible and popular event, then that's far more important for investors in whatever the scheme is.
Good on you Geoff for being the bigger man; but I think most of the community was in your corner even without the apology.
From what I could tell, there were a few over sensitive individuals who tore you down for something I felt was pretty minor. You shouldn't give these drama queens the time of day.
As for the Kelly ordeal, Nony said it best, the accent turns me off immediately. You should be able to say something like that without facing scrutiny; in fact, on SOTG you probably took the softer stance, but somehow are accused of being too critical/insulting? Perhaps because of your reputation, but it's just not the reality of things. The internet is silly.
Wanted to get off the "haters gunna hate" bandwagon. I like you Geoff, this apology seems very sincere and is appreciated. Look foward to watching your stream and you are a huge part of what makes SoTG loved by so many fans of the game and the great personalities that come with it. I can't think of anyone i'd rather see as the face of NASL... you are and honest and steadfast figure in a community that it seems is struggling a bit with all of this growth
The problem I and a lot others probably have with you InControl, is you exaggerating with your "making fun" or "kidding around", whatever you want to call it.
When you're constantly making fun of someone in a show as big as SOTG it a) has been said even if you're "just kidding" and b) quite a lot listeners take it seriously. So when you e.g. call out TB for super childish reactions and what not for apparently unknown circumstances, then guess what, a percentage of your audience does soak it up, changes its view upon TB, thanks to you. I mean look at all the guys hammering on TB because he wants to defend himself, which he kinda has to as you're hurting his image (kinda recursive loop right there). If you intended that or not, in the end you did just that.
So I don't know, I hope you sometimes take a step back and being less of a douche. Making fun on the expense of someone else always causes trouble.
Apart from that I can only look forward NASL. We actually don't need all the talk. You'll probably proof yourself just fine ;P
@kelly "incident" i love her, she's great and i fully support her, but she speaks funny and thats the fact. Making fun of something is the most normal thing in the world and stereotypes are base of 90% of jokes.
If u "change" yourself on TL/SOTG beacuse of bunch of internet trolls, than you become a little bitch. And i for sure wont watch your stream or listen to SOTG cuz thats who you are and why people love you. Proffesionalisam aside, if you are not speaking OFFICIALY IN NASL NAME, you have full rights to speak your mind.
Mocking someone with nothing but malice isn't ok. There was no hint of any kind of gleam in the corner of his eyes, just pure malice.
Sounds like you're doing too much creeping in the bushes outside of his house trying to peak in...
I thought it was pretty standardized by now that he knows Kelly on a personal level and there was no malicious intent. But if you choose to ignore all of this I guess it is your prerogative.
It should also be noted that if he owed anybody an apology, it was Kelly herself (which I believe he admitted to doing), not anybody who witnessed the event. If somebody insults my friend Tom while Tom isn't around, I don't ask that person to apologize to me because I heard it. This is just mob mentality run amok.
If you want to scale it back a little bit, that's fine. Things you do or say were going to be scrutinized more, and now after this "event" people will just be looking for another reason to jump on you, regardless of if the situation warrants it.
On February 27 2011 03:03 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: The problem I and a lot others probably have with you InControl, is you exaggerating with your "making fun" or "kidding around", whatever you want to call it.
When you're constantly making fun of someone in a show as big as SOTG it a) has been said even if you're "just kidding" and b) quite a lot listeners take it seriously. So when you e.g. call out TB for super childish reactions and what not for apparently unknown circumstances, then guess what, a percentage of your audience does soak it up, changes its view upon TB, thanks to you. I mean look at all the guys hammering on TB because he wants to defend himself, which he kinda has to as you're hurting his image (kinda recursive loop right there). If you intended that or not, in the end you did just that.
So I don't know, I hope you sometimes take a step back and being less of a douche. Making fun on the expense of someone else always causes trouble.
Apart from that I can only look forward NASL. We actually don't need all the talk. You'll probably proof yourself just fine ;P
I myself couldn't listen to what iNcontrol was saying but kelly herself (I think) said it caused her to get rape threats/emails (apparently he was talking about Tasteless/Kelly doing stuff)
I think all of this was massively blown out of proportion, kellymilkies is a personal friend - as far as I know she hasn't commented either way - seems she doesn't care. As for restreaming he stopped it when he realized it was bad, this guy is taking massive steps for the community and benefiting esports, some people are just too spoiled
I never even knew about the GSL restreaming, LOL. Anyways, what I was slightly cheesed about before was the KellyMilkies mocking/bashing, but I might have took it too seriously anyways. I'm really glad that you apologized and that you're changing (as much as I hate that) for the good of eSports. Just remember that you're always freaking amazing, awesome, and a gift that has been bestowed unto the community. iNcontrol HWAITING!
On February 26 2011 06:09 chiyiw wrote: I also created an account to say that all you have to do is not be a dick. Everything else is completely alright, just stop being a dick. You weren't as dickish until NASL came out (or at least not as publicly dickish) and people were cool with it.
STOP BEING A DICK.
And ignore all those people who apologize on behalf of /r/sc. There is still a high level of skepticism. If you want to see a crazy change in public perception on reddit, just do an AMA and people will be running over to you trying to suck your dick.
This pretty much. There's no need to reduce public exposure as long as you're willing to just keep it civil. I never really understood in what planet was it ok to ridicule another person in a live broadcast, even if I do truly believe you obviously meant no harm by it.
I'm glad you're acknowledging your status in the community and the repercussions and impact of what you do (or not do).
Even though I do not wish for you to reduce your involvement with the community, one thing you should definitely stop doing however, is getting involved in arbitrary public forum discussions. Most of the time these discussions are not representative of the big picture, and will just most likely tarnish your reputation.
Looking forward to NASL in April, iNcontroL fightin'!!
On February 27 2011 03:03 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: The problem I and a lot others probably have with you InControl, is you exaggerating with your "making fun" or "kidding around", whatever you want to call it.
When you're constantly making fun of someone in a show as big as SOTG it a) has been said even if you're "just kidding" and b) quite a lot listeners take it seriously. So when you e.g. call out TB for super childish reactions and what not for apparently unknown circumstances, then guess what, a percentage of your audience does soak it up, changes its view upon TB, thanks to you. I mean look at all the guys hammering on TB because he wants to defend himself, which he kinda has to as you're hurting his image (kinda recursive loop right there). If you intended that or not, in the end you did just that.
So I don't know, I hope you sometimes take a step back and being less of a douche. Making fun on the expense of someone else always causes trouble.
Apart from that I can only look forward NASL. We actually don't need all the talk. You'll probably proof yourself just fine ;P
I myself couldn't listen to what iNcontrol was saying but kelly herself (I think) said it caused her to get rape threats/emails (apparently he was talking about Tasteless/Kelly doing stuff)
You're a pretty bold person aren't you? I mean for admitting that you didn't actually hear what you're talking about you still seem confident to say that what incontrol said "caused her to get rape threats/emails".
On February 27 2011 03:03 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: The problem I and a lot others probably have with you InControl, is you exaggerating with your "making fun" or "kidding around", whatever you want to call it.
When you're constantly making fun of someone in a show as big as SOTG it a) has been said even if you're "just kidding" and b) quite a lot listeners take it seriously. So when you e.g. call out TB for super childish reactions and what not for apparently unknown circumstances, then guess what, a percentage of your audience does soak it up, changes its view upon TB, thanks to you. I mean look at all the guys hammering on TB because he wants to defend himself, which he kinda has to as you're hurting his image (kinda recursive loop right there). If you intended that or not, in the end you did just that.
So I don't know, I hope you sometimes take a step back and being less of a douche. Making fun on the expense of someone else always causes trouble.
Apart from that I can only look forward NASL. We actually don't need all the talk. You'll probably proof yourself just fine ;P
I myself couldn't listen to what iNcontrol was saying but kelly herself (I think) said it caused her to get rape threats/emails (apparently he was talking about Tasteless/Kelly doing stuff)
You're a pretty bold person aren't you? I mean for admitting that you didn't actually hear what you're talking about you still seem confident to say that what incontrol said "caused her to get rape threats/emails".
Some people just amaze me.
10-20 people told me about it while it was happening, unless it was a coordinated troll, I am pretty confident it happened.. Kelly posted about it but removed it because she misunderstood the post she responded to, that is why I said "I think". I agree with you, I would have to be some sort of crazyperson to make something like that up
you can always stream yourself talking about the GSL games live. So long as it audio only and u don't show us the picture of the game themself thats legal. Because your recasts are pretty damn funny and i'd hate for that to be the last.
Im extremely excited for you to be the face of NASL. I just realllllllllly hope you dont have to tune down the humor too much. The TB and Kelly impressions are amazing and seriously absolutely make my day. Especially on SoTG. Dont lose yourself in this whole process!
Incontrol, I just want to let you know you've still got many supporters. And to me personally, I really enjoy having a personality that speaks their mind. Everyone is too politically correct. But you aren't, and that makes listening to you a breath of fresh air. I know that you are now the face of the NASL and can no longer be quite as outspoken as you once were. Just be careful not to lose the personality that brought the entire community behind you.
On February 26 2011 06:09 chiyiw wrote: I also created an account to say that all you have to do is not be a dick. Everything else is completely alright, just stop being a dick. You weren't as dickish until NASL came out (or at least not as publicly dickish) and people were cool with it.
STOP BEING A DICK.
And ignore all those people who apologize on behalf of /r/sc. There is still a high level of skepticism. If you want to see a crazy change in public perception on reddit, just do an AMA and people will be running over to you trying to suck your dick.
I disagree. I have no problem with anything you've done other than the silly GSL restream. Yes, you've made fun of people, and yes a lot of it could be seen as inappropriate, but everyone who's followed you at all knows that none of what you say is malicious or supposed to be taken personally. Everyone who has a problem with what you've done up until now has taken things out of proportion or out of context, or just hasn't gotten the whole story.
A lot of the criticisms you've brought up are completely valid and are ones shared by numerous other community members. A lot of us don't the voice to express these opinions, or the credibility to seen as anything other than a flaming troll. I'm glad you have spoken out on these issues, and given us a legitimate voice in the community. I think it will be a real shame if you do start censorriing yourself and a disservice to the community.
Don't change iNcontroL ... the kellymilkies impersonation was one of the funniest starcraft related things I ever heard! maybe next to your rant about horses.
On February 27 2011 03:03 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: The problem I and a lot others probably have with you InControl, is you exaggerating with your "making fun" or "kidding around", whatever you want to call it.
When you're constantly making fun of someone in a show as big as SOTG it a) has been said even if you're "just kidding" and b) quite a lot listeners take it seriously. So when you e.g. call out TB for super childish reactions and what not for apparently unknown circumstances, then guess what, a percentage of your audience does soak it up, changes its view upon TB, thanks to you. I mean look at all the guys hammering on TB because he wants to defend himself, which he kinda has to as you're hurting his image (kinda recursive loop right there). If you intended that or not, in the end you did just that.
So I don't know, I hope you sometimes take a step back and being less of a douche. Making fun on the expense of someone else always causes trouble.
Apart from that I can only look forward NASL. We actually don't need all the talk. You'll probably proof yourself just fine ;P
I myself couldn't listen to what iNcontrol was saying but kelly herself (I think) said it caused her to get rape threats/emails (apparently he was talking about Tasteless/Kelly doing stuff)
You're a pretty bold person aren't you? I mean for admitting that you didn't actually hear what you're talking about you still seem confident to say that what incontrol said "caused her to get rape threats/emails".
Some people just amaze me.
10-20 people told me about it while it was happening, unless it was a coordinated troll, I am pretty confident it happened.. Kelly posted about it but removed it because she misunderstood the post she responded to, that is why I said "I think". I agree with you, I would have to be some sort of crazyperson to make something like that up
Nah dude. She was getting rape/death threats long before I did any impersonation of her. It's also pretty dumb to try and make me take credit for people making those threats.
Honestly I don't think it was what happened but how iNcontrol reacted to it.
It was a shitty string of events and the criticism was met with sarcasm and a lot of people felt he was just dismissing what people were saying. I don't think people are flipping out he streamed GSL but that he asked for a stream than banned said streamer when he didn't like what they were saying in the chat of the stream(Reddit flips out over censorship, which is where I assume most of whatever TL hate goes on at Reddit stems from).
I don't want to see you change too much from how you are iNcontrol, just keep in mind when dealing with "random gaming forum poster" on the forums that they are going to be customers and you can't use sarcasm and dismissive responses when they raise criticism against you. Another thing people despise is do as I say not as I do type of people so just echo what you expect from the community and we will do the same for you.
As a watcher of all your content out there keep up the good work and don't move too far away from the iNcontrol everyone knows and loves <3.
This is probably the stupidest thread ever. I don't watch or play SC2, but I like Incontrol and want his league to succeed. People whining about Incontrol's personality and acting like he's the prodigal son finally returning to your open arms are honestly retarded. He's funny and actually quite nice and his personality is just fine for an esports persona. I have no idea where everyone got the idea that "legitimate" (whatever that means) organizations always act like their from Victorian England.
constructive criticism: more respect for casters who aren't doing Inception level deep analysis of games they are casting, you can't expect every caster to be a pro gamer + pro commentator as yourself Incontrol, we know you can be professional and you definitely should be towards other casters, they are not your enemies. (I do agree they should do whatever they can to improve themselves, if they won't they probably won't last anyway)
non constructive criticism: definitely more hair whipping back and forth
I would have preferred you not apologize. She put herself out there in the public eye and when someone does that, they should expect to be made fun of and parodied ect. Bottom line, you need thick skin to be in the public eye. I have no pity for those who don't. I think putting someone as the English caster for a major event, when their spoken English is simply (IMO) unacceptable, was a mistake. Her pronunciation is poor, she is difficult to understand (especially when she talks fast), and her voice is downright annoying. I tried to watch it and had to turn it off after 5 minutes because it was so terrible. You were right to make fun of it, and shouldn't apologize. Speak your mind, ignore the haters, and let the pieces fall where they may.
There's been a lot of replies to this and I'd like to add mine, even though I'm just yet another voice in the crowd.
I like that he did this, that his apology was public. A lot of people in this thread said he shouldn't have done it and that the concessions to his critics will impact his performance due to his personality/character not being as present any longer. I couldn't agree less. Being a public persona and a spokesperson for a whole enterprise, appeasing critics and accepting personal responsibilty is a right and mature thing to do.
People do emotional and short-sighted things and make mistakes. Incontrol did it (and apologized), but random fans and scene followers do it as well. My guess is a lot of people that chimed in to the general outcry following this whole drama don't really have any issues with Incontrol. But it's fun to not like someone, it's entertaining to be one of two polarized sides and thus a lot of people will eagerly dislike Goeff even though they don't really know him and couldn't care less about what he does or doesn't do. That's why people gossip and read tabloids, and we Starcraft people aren't better than the rest.
I'll freely admit that I was amongst those. I don't know Incontrol but I quickly sided with the critics. Might have to do that I don't like his "in your face" attitude; he's a very outspoken type and I prefer subtle people. But hey, to each his own. But you know what? This apology is all I need to respect this guy. He took the responsibilty. Bravo. He took the blame without faltering and thus showed traits that might come in very handy when managing the NASL: honesty and integrity.
inControl I love you either way and I don't really care if you were mean w/e. However as a figurehead I know you'll have to be politically correct somewhat so it's nice to see you shoulder that responsibility.
Anyway I don't really know whats this about but I'm behind you buddy.
On February 27 2011 04:53 Techno wrote: I think the NASL would be awesome with the following casters:
InControl TotalBiscuit Khaldor Artosis Day9
I think InControl + TotalBiscuit would be an awesome combination. The Overly British Bugger with the Average American Asshole.
Not singling any casters out, but that list has some serious disparity between game knowledge and ability. Simply put, some of those casters know what they're talking about and some have no clue.
On February 27 2011 03:03 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: The problem I and a lot others probably have with you InControl, is you exaggerating with your "making fun" or "kidding around", whatever you want to call it.
When you're constantly making fun of someone in a show as big as SOTG it a) has been said even if you're "just kidding" and b) quite a lot listeners take it seriously. So when you e.g. call out TB for super childish reactions and what not for apparently unknown circumstances, then guess what, a percentage of your audience does soak it up, changes its view upon TB, thanks to you. I mean look at all the guys hammering on TB because he wants to defend himself, which he kinda has to as you're hurting his image (kinda recursive loop right there). If you intended that or not, in the end you did just that.
So I don't know, I hope you sometimes take a step back and being less of a douche. Making fun on the expense of someone else always causes trouble.
Apart from that I can only look forward NASL. We actually don't need all the talk. You'll probably proof yourself just fine ;P
I myself couldn't listen to what iNcontrol was saying but kelly herself (I think) said it caused her to get rape threats/emails (apparently he was talking about Tasteless/Kelly doing stuff)
You're a pretty bold person aren't you? I mean for admitting that you didn't actually hear what you're talking about you still seem confident to say that what incontrol said "caused her to get rape threats/emails".
Some people just amaze me.
10-20 people told me about it while it was happening, unless it was a coordinated troll, I am pretty confident it happened.. Kelly posted about it but removed it because she misunderstood the post she responded to, that is why I said "I think". I agree with you, I would have to be some sort of crazyperson to make something like that up
Nah dude. She was getting rape/death threats long before I did any impersonation of her. It's also pretty dumb to try and make me take credit for people making those threats.
Oops sorry about that then. People call me terrible, but in every way possible that is just wrong.
i fear lovable incontrol will have to be hidden from now on due to being such a public figure i hope he does not get bored being a upstanding role model for everyone
Thing is if InControl says sorry (or at least acknowledge it was wrong or whatever) to those he personally offended (none of the random haters) and stayed low key, this would all blow over quickly.
Be direct and concise if you are apologising. END OF MATTER.
I respect you for doing this. it is always hard to own up when you've done something wrong, and ten times so over the internet. I personally believe that people would not be giving you this much stick if the mistakes you're owning up to happened around the NASL announcement. In a way, it's good that the community is expecting so much from you - If you match their expectations, which from your OP I imagine you will, it will improve your image and the image of professional starcraft.
Best of luck with the NASL, keep cracking the jokes that originally made me find you hilarious and entertaining as a caster - I don't want those to disappear now that you have a more public casting job.
P.S. the showmatch was not as bad as everyone seems to love saying. For one, I thought Gretorp and yourself were a very good commentating partnership.
On February 27 2011 04:53 Techno wrote: I think the NASL would be awesome with the following casters:
InControl TotalBiscuit Khaldor Artosis Day9
I think InControl + TotalBiscuit would be an awesome combination. The Overly British Bugger with the Average American Asshole.
Not singling any casters out, but that list has some serious disparity between game knowledge and ability. Simply put, some of those casters know what they're talking about and some have no clue.
You'd be better off just coming out and saying it rather than being passive-aggressive.
On the flip-side, there is also a serious disparity in broadcast training. Some of us have it, some don't. Game knowledge is not the only skill you require to commentate at a professional level and it is not the only thing you can bring to the table in a co-commentary situation.
On February 27 2011 04:53 Techno wrote: I think the NASL would be awesome with the following casters:
InControl TotalBiscuit Khaldor Artosis Day9
I think InControl + TotalBiscuit would be an awesome combination. The Overly British Bugger with the Average American Asshole.
Not singling any casters out, but that list has some serious disparity between game knowledge and ability. Simply put, some of those casters know what they're talking about and some have no clue.
You'd be better off just coming out and saying it rather than being passive-aggressive.
On the flip-side, there is also a serious disparity in broadcast training. Some of us have it, some don't. Game knowledge is not the only skill you require to commentate at a professional level and it is not the only thing you can bring to the table in a co-commentary situation.
I'd like it if TB didn't catch so much shit in my threads. I understand I've set a confusing pace because I myself give him a hard time but lets get a few facts out there:
A. he does a good job casting B. He cares about this game and has genuinely helped it grow C. He is NOT a bad guy
I think his accent is hilarious and he is defensive so he catches some teasing from me but attacking him personally is wrong. I understand some of my remarks in the past have crossed that border (I immediately apologized [assembly] because I didn't have the full info).
On February 27 2011 09:01 iNcontroL wrote: Making fun of 1 person's accent does not equal the same thing as making fun of someone elses.
For instance if someone mocked my accent that wouldn't be the same as mocking a less secure/asian individual.
I only meant to say making fun of someone in general. While kelly is deeply offended by you making fun of her accent who's to say artosis, or anyone else you've made fun of hasn't been really deeply offended by w/e you had to say about them? In the end it doesn't or rather SHOULDN'T matter that kelly was the one to seriously speak up about the things you say.
It's this exception to the rule bullshit that's really pissing me off inside... and it's not because I don't understand why you have to apologize like this, it's the fact you only feel the need to apologize to kelly because that's what you got in trouble for.
My same point can be extended to what you are now specifying. Making fun of friends, mocking people for dumb questions etc.. what ever other example you can bring up basically are not comparable to me making harsh jokes to vulnerable people.
Are you seriously arguing on behalf of never teasing anyone?
On February 27 2011 09:26 iNcontroL wrote: My same point can be extended to what you are now specifying. Making fun of friends, mocking people for dumb questions etc.. what ever other example you can bring up basically are not comparable to me making harsh jokes to vulnerable people.
Are you seriously arguing on behalf of never teasing anyone?
If she's so vulnerable then why did you do it in the first place? And tell me when the last time the "I didn't know" excuse worked for anything serious?
On February 27 2011 09:26 iNcontroL wrote: My same point can be extended to what you are now specifying. Making fun of friends, mocking people for dumb questions etc.. what ever other example you can bring up basically are not comparable to me making harsh jokes to vulnerable people.
Are you seriously arguing on behalf of never teasing anyone?
You're doing everything right. I just have a wish that people who add value to the community are respected, like TB. He's great. Mocking an accent is alienating that accent, which does nobody any favors especially if you can't just stop speaking a particular way. I'm hopping on the hate-wagon for that one particular reason. Beyond that I have no qualms, nor do I believe they would be deemed interesting to anybody.
I dunno if you completely skirted this entire thread or just feel like digging at me.. nowhere do I say "i didn't know" so I don't get the edge to your post. I simply say it was completely and 100% wrong and that I won't do it any more.
What is the aim in your posts? You were giving me a hard time for "selling out" and have also accused me of a bunch of stuff... do you expect me to renounce accepting payment for anything SC2 related and then vow to never upset anyone ever again?
is this going to lead to you all actually talking about starcraft on state of the game or is it still going to be "gossip hour with jp and incontrol while day9 steadily avoids the podcast more and more to the point where he doesn't even come to it because you guys just talk lots of shit instead of discussing anything about the game."
iNcontroL you're the man, don't change because of all the trolls out there! The only thing anyone can fault you on is re-stream of the GSL. We all make mistakes and the trolls need to chill. Seems to me people were just looking for something to come after you for. Anyway GL on the NASL!
On February 27 2011 09:34 iNcontroL wrote: I dunno if you completely skirted this entire thread or just feel like digging at me.. nowhere do I say "i didn't know" so I don't get the edge to your post. I simply say it was completely and 100% wrong and that I won't do it any more.
What is the aim in your posts? You were giving me a hard time for "selling out" and have also accused me of a bunch of stuff... do you expect me to renounce accepting payment for anything SC2 related and then vow to never upset anyone ever again?
If one of the people you answer to didn't tell you or force you to make this thread then I'm utterly wrong about selling out, I didn't mean it in a monetary sense.
I just didn't think you were the kind of person to repeatedly apologize for something that was funny no matter how offensive it might be, I feel deceived and that's why I'm angry even though it's not your fault.
So now because people can't take being verbal assaulted they are now less secure. After all, you did ban someone for criticizing you. So other than being asian, it is in fact the same.
On February 27 2011 09:53 ImHuko wrote: So now because people can't take being verbal assaulted they are now less secure. After all, you did ban someone for criticizing you. So other than being asian, it is in fact the same.
On February 27 2011 09:53 ImHuko wrote: So now because people can't take being verbal assaulted they are now less secure. After all, you did ban someone for making criticizing you. So other than being asian, it is in fact the same.
Again, Kelly's situation is far and away not typical. Lets stop pretending it is/was. If you want to make the argument that kelly is in fact exactly the same as anyone else I've ever teased I will have to ask that you reevaluate your world view.
On February 27 2011 09:53 ImHuko wrote: So now because people can't take being verbal assaulted they are now less secure. After all, you did ban someone for criticizing you. So other than being asian, it is in fact the same.
Teasing is not the same as "verbal assault", and you weren't banned for criticizing, you were banned for being a douche and repeatedly breaking rules.
On February 27 2011 09:53 ImHuko wrote: So now because people can't take being verbal assaulted they are now less secure. After all, you did ban someone for criticizing you. So other than being asian, it is in fact the same.
You might need another edit.
Did I misread something? The way I read it was, it is alright to make fun of you because you can take it, but less secure people it is not alright.
On February 27 2011 09:53 ImHuko wrote: So now because people can't take being verbal assaulted they are now less secure. After all, you did ban someone for criticizing you. So other than being asian, it is in fact the same.
Teasing is not the same as "verbal assault", and you weren't banned for criticizing, you were banned for being a douche and repeatedly breaking rules.
That is what happened wrong with this apology. No one knows exactly what happened and iNcontrol didn't say everything. So it just turned into a pity party instead giving more meaning to the apology. iNcontrol banned me for personal reasons, not breaking rules. He even apologized for it, please get a clue. I feel like a douche speaking about it because I was involved but I am sick of all these people that don't know what happened (cause no one told them) and in return are talking down to the people who actually care.
On February 27 2011 09:53 ImHuko wrote: So now because people can't take being verbal assaulted they are now less secure. After all, you did ban someone for criticizing you. So other than being asian, it is in fact the same.
You might need another edit.
Did I misread something? The way I read it was, it is alright to make fun of you because you can take it, but less secure people it is not alright.
I didn't understand what you wrote, however it's not directed at me so forget about it. Sorry.
Your exposure as a "celebrity" is growing and there are caveats that go with the territory. No matter what you do, no matter what your personality, there will be people that hate you. It's sad and unjustified sometimes but whether it's personal issues or personality clashes there's nothing you can do about it.
In people's minds you now have three prominent roles in Starcraft 2 eSports: INcontroL the player. INcontroL the aficionado, and INcontroL the face of NASL. Soon will be INcontroL the commentator. I guess the trick is to establish benchmarks of professionalism for each role. An analogy might be that as a player in a major tournament you would be well mannered, GG, and act as a professional player.. but in practise games with friends you'd joke around and tease them for risky plays or whatever.
If you're on SOTG or whatever then let your hair down, joke around and tease. This is the aficionado. This is the voice of the fan in the know and at times will be contentious. I wouldn't make fun of accents or whatever as SC2 is global with wide exposure everywhere. On your stream it's pretty much the same. In a tournament you already know how to act. When speaking on behalf of NASL act as professional as possible. Obviously don't do anything illegal.
It's difficult because the more you tone down the more people will find your personality acceptable but it also becomes less unique and and less interesting as it's toned down. It's just something to work on and learn as you grow into and get comfortable with new roles. If you try to change like flipping a switch you'll spend every moment second guessing yourself.
On February 27 2011 09:53 ImHuko wrote: So now because people can't take being verbal assaulted they are now less secure. After all, you did ban someone for criticizing you. So other than being asian, it is in fact the same.
You might need another edit.
Did I misread something? The way I read it was, it is alright to make fun of you because you can take it, but less secure people it is not alright.
On February 27 2011 09:53 ImHuko wrote: So now because people can't take being verbal assaulted they are now less secure. After all, you did ban someone for criticizing you. So other than being asian, it is in fact the same.
Teasing is not the same as "verbal assault", and you weren't banned for criticizing, you were banned for being a douche and repeatedly breaking rules.
That is what happened wrong with this apology. No one knows exactly what happened and iNcontrol didn't say everything. So it just turned into a pity party instead giving more meaning to the apology. iNcontrol banned me for personal reasons, not breaking rules. He even apologized for it, please get a clue.
Oh really? What's your explanation for Manifesto banning you?
I really don't agree with the idea that Incontrol couldn't be pretty much universally accepted the way, say, Day9 is. I think that Incontrol is perfectly capable of toning it down without becoming bland or boring, and either way he'll still make a great caster.
On February 27 2011 09:53 ImHuko wrote: So now because people can't take being verbal assaulted they are now less secure. After all, you did ban someone for criticizing you. So other than being asian, it is in fact the same.
You might need another edit.
Did I misread something? The way I read it was, it is alright to make fun of you because you can take it, but less secure people it is not alright.
On February 27 2011 09:57 elmizzt wrote:
On February 27 2011 09:53 ImHuko wrote: So now because people can't take being verbal assaulted they are now less secure. After all, you did ban someone for criticizing you. So other than being asian, it is in fact the same.
Teasing is not the same as "verbal assault", and you weren't banned for criticizing, you were banned for being a douche and repeatedly breaking rules.
That is what happened wrong with this apology. No one knows exactly what happened and iNcontrol didn't say everything. So it just turned into a pity party instead giving more meaning to the apology. iNcontrol banned me for personal reasons, not breaking rules. He even apologized for it, please get a clue.
Oh really? What's your explanation for Manifesto banning you?
iNcontrol banned me permanetly after watching my restream and saw me talking shit/criticizing him. Mani lowered the ban, because why should he not trust iNcontrol with his ban, iNcontrol gave a good reason with "re-streaming". Later it was found out that iNcontrol was looking for a restream himself and just banned me because saw me talking about him in my stream. Later on the ban was removed when all the evidence came to light.
I believe the apology and can tell from his responses he really means it. It is just shame this apology only told about a little portion, cause now he has people trying to fight by his side defending him with something he has already apologized for outside the blog. In return the people who actually appreciate the apology(in and outside the blog) and respect him for it are getting put down because "haters gon hater"
On February 27 2011 09:53 ImHuko wrote: So now because people can't take being verbal assaulted they are now less secure. After all, you did ban someone for criticizing you. So other than being asian, it is in fact the same.
You might need another edit.
Did I misread something? The way I read it was, it is alright to make fun of you because you can take it, but less secure people it is not alright.
On February 27 2011 09:57 elmizzt wrote:
On February 27 2011 09:53 ImHuko wrote: So now because people can't take being verbal assaulted they are now less secure. After all, you did ban someone for criticizing you. So other than being asian, it is in fact the same.
Teasing is not the same as "verbal assault", and you weren't banned for criticizing, you were banned for being a douche and repeatedly breaking rules.
That is what happened wrong with this apology. No one knows exactly what happened and iNcontrol didn't say everything. So it just turned into a pity party instead giving more meaning to the apology. iNcontrol banned me for personal reasons, not breaking rules. He even apologized for it, please get a clue.
Oh really? What's your explanation for Manifesto banning you?
He removed the permanent ban of iNcontrol and gave a week ban, because iNcontrol brought attention to it. I deserved a little ban for being rude with my comment (which incontrol didn't ban for), but it was removed it assuming because it only happened from iNcontrol letting personal feelings get the best of him
On February 27 2011 09:53 ImHuko wrote: So now because people can't take being verbal assaulted they are now less secure. After all, you did ban someone for criticizing you. So other than being asian, it is in fact the same.
You might need another edit.
Did I misread something? The way I read it was, it is alright to make fun of you because you can take it, but less secure people it is not alright.
On February 27 2011 09:57 elmizzt wrote:
On February 27 2011 09:53 ImHuko wrote: So now because people can't take being verbal assaulted they are now less secure. After all, you did ban someone for criticizing you. So other than being asian, it is in fact the same.
Teasing is not the same as "verbal assault", and you weren't banned for criticizing, you were banned for being a douche and repeatedly breaking rules.
That is what happened wrong with this apology. No one knows exactly what happened and iNcontrol didn't say everything. So it just turned into a pity party instead giving more meaning to the apology. iNcontrol banned me for personal reasons, not breaking rules. He even apologized for it, please get a clue.
Oh really? What's your explanation for Manifesto banning you?
He removed the permanent ban of iNcontrol and gave a week ban, because iNcontrol brought attention to it. I deserved a little ban for being rude with my comment (which incontrol didn't ban for), but it was removed it assuming because it only happened from iNcontrol letting personal feelings get the best of him
That agrees exactly with what I said. Thanks.
I edited because you needed an in depth explanation.
He Incontrol, the way I see it is, that you are going to step over boundaries again. Its just the nature of your humor (and mine btw). I think the most important thing is to try to think about a statement before saying it, even this is really hard, especially in enviroments like SotG, because you are basiclly talking to your friends, but the whole world is listening. And if you mess up again, just apologize again. Its the way I handle this stuff in my life and it works out for me (in job, university and personal life), but of course I'm not nearly as publicly exposed as you are.
^ restreaming a stream while jamming on /commercial, and then banning people for restreaming while asking people for $25 bucks for your own tournament stream is not a humor problem
On February 27 2011 09:53 ImHuko wrote: So now because people can't take being verbal assaulted they are now less secure. After all, you did ban someone for criticizing you. So other than being asian, it is in fact the same.
Jesus man, you're beating a dead horse. Stop trying to win people to your side against iNcontroL whilst professing to be a fan. You're not making yourself look very good. If you have a beef with him still, discuss it with him personally. Stop trying to sway people to your side of events. Whilst Inc is being contrite and apologising you're still banging away at his sins, while not apologising yourself for anything or accepting any blame for what happened. At this point you're just damaging your own version of events.
incontrol, cutie, one of the only reasons I even listen to sotg, or watch your stream is your ability to make internet nerds spew cola from their mouths with your witty remarks and great sense of humor. Changing your personality due to a few nerds who can't handle minuscule bullshit is changing everything about who you are and what you do.
While I don't agree with how you led everyone on with the show match and misleading comments, I think apologizing for insulting certain people is stupid and contradicting who you are to the core. While you are the face of what could potentially be the biggest thing to happen to esports in the west, changing your attitude changes why you are fucking wanted by these people in the first place.
On February 27 2011 09:53 ImHuko wrote: So now because people can't take being verbal assaulted they are now less secure. After all, you did ban someone for criticizing you. So other than being asian, it is in fact the same.
Jesus man, you're beating a dead horse. Stop trying to win people to your side against iNcontroL whilst professing to be a fan. You're not making yourself look very good. If you have a beef with him still, discuss it with him personally. Stop trying to sway people to your side of events. Whilst Inc is being contrite and apologising you're still banging away at his sins, while not apologising yourself for anything or accepting any blame for what happened. At this point you're just damaging your own version of events.
I tried to take this guy seriously after reading a few of his posts here. But looking at his post history about the NASL and control I just can't do it anymore. Was thinking about responding earlier but figured it wasn't even worth the effort. I think you nailed it on the head.
Are you seriously arguing on behalf of never teasing anyone?
If you want to be the face of an enterprise, then yes, I would jump on the no-more-teasing train. The difference between you, and all the other people here. All the other people here are nobodies in the scene. No one gives a fuck what they say, and immediately anything that anyone can say can be put down to "Troll." and move on.
YOU are the leader and the face of this movement. You don't see public figures, ie; a sports person, or musician blatantly rip the shit out of others in their field in offensive ways. In order to pull that off, a certain level of friendship between the two at talking point is required.
Its about professionalism. You're either a likable 22 year old larrikin, or you're the leader of western ESPORTS. You can't be both. NASLs leader can't be a funny jackass.
To a far lesser degree, the same can be applied to my job. As a Sales Representative, I have to convince prospective accounts to swap over to my line of product. The second you badmouth the opposition, you're seen as rude and unprofessional. You have to make it on your own merits. Make sure your squeaky clean.
On February 27 2011 09:53 ImHuko wrote: So now because people can't take being verbal assaulted they are now less secure. After all, you did ban someone for criticizing you. So other than being asian, it is in fact the same.
On February 26 2011 14:31 Manifesto7 wrote: Is this situation going to be addressed? Even though it was from the Louder era, you are still operating under the same brand. I am not sure where this falls under.
On February 16 2011 11:44 theshin2007 wrote: I wanted to preface the following by saying that I respect the players involved with this project and this is by no means meant to bash the site or start a flame war, but I felt this issue should be addressed.
So I did a search for any updates about the Gosuguide. As of 2/15/2011 there have been no updates, no roundtables, the only replay packs are dated 8-11-10 and 8-13-10. Several people are asking for refunds in the comments section. I was wondering what the current plans are for completing this guide or providing refunds for people who purchased?
I can not find any response for this and I would like to know what happen aswell. I am a type of person who will pay for a replay site since i watch replay a lot.
I've responded to every PM I've received about that. mani brought it up in this thread for reasons beyond me.. they aren't connected at all and it's out of place here.
1) YOU are the leader and the face of this movement. You don't see public figures, ie; a sports person, or musician blatantly rip the shit out of others in their field in offensive ways. In order to pull that off, a certain level of friendship between the two at talking point is required.
2) Its about professionalism. You're either a likable 22 year old larrikin, or you're the leader of western ESPORTS. You can't be both. NASLs leader can't be a funny jackass.
1) He's not the pope of fucking SC2, and professional SC2 is not 'a movement'. If he's the leader, what's Russ supposed to be -- the God of Starcraft?
Geoff got a really cool job representing a league in a young and developing sport. It's like the rise of skateboarding in the early 80's and 90's. The 'faces' of skateboarding popularized it by being funny and charismatic, not by being politically correct or 'perfect'.
On February 27 2011 12:36 iNcontroL wrote: I've responded to every PM I've received about that. mani brought it up in this thread for reasons beyond me.. they aren't connected at all and it's out of place here.
Well what is the status of the guide / why is it still for sale with your name all over it? Isn't it kind of bad to leave it out there will tons of misleading information? You owe me no answers but I'd be curious to know what is going on with it.
1) YOU are the leader and the face of this movement. You don't see public figures, ie; a sports person, or musician blatantly rip the shit out of others in their field in offensive ways. In order to pull that off, a certain level of friendship between the two at talking point is required.
2) Its about professionalism. You're either a likable 22 year old larrikin, or you're the leader of western ESPORTS. You can't be both. NASLs leader can't be a funny jackass.
1) He's not the pope of fucking SC2, and professional SC2 is not 'a movement'. If he's the leader, what's Russ supposed to be -- the God of Starcraft?
Geoff got a really cool job representing a league in a young and developing sport. It's like the rise of skateboarding in the early 80's and 90's. The 'faces' of skateboarding popularized it by being funny and charismatic, not by being politically correct or 'perfect'.
2) You CAN be both.
Tiger Woods isn't the "pope" of Golf, however as a professional under the spotlight, he brought the sport into disrepute. That is the power that iNcontrol has been granted here. Likening SC2 to skating is a bit far fetched too. Back in the day when skating was starting up there wasn't money, there wasn't a worldwide audience, and there wasn't sponsorship. SC2 is already at that stage where A FULL households yearly wage can be won in 1 season of the NASL. Initially, when skating "punks" (I use the term lightly) were getting around, it was for the ride, not the money or fame. SC2 has exceeded the early stages of skating already simply due to the audience and the money.
This shit isn't a game to the sponsors giving away hundreds of thousands of dollars to have THEIR product in the limelight. What would the outcome be to have your line of RAM advertised to Chinese/Singaporean/Malaysian/Taiwanese viewers, by a presenter who has personally attacked the asian accent in the past.
The answer is: FUCKING devastating. While I don't find iNcontrol's comments "racist," others out there might. The NASL will be broadcast world wide. Mocking a minority that is viewing, and very likely buying the products advertised is so unprofessional, and I fear that if iNcontrol doesn't pull his head in, it has the potential to drive sponsors away.
I will restate what I said before. iNcontrol has his heart DEEP in the right place. He meant no malice, but it came across that way. I have no doubt he is the person for the job. I have no doubt he can put this behind him and learn the lesson. I just don't want the lesson to be forgotten too quickly. Serious money, serious market exposure for sponsors is on the line, and what iNcontrol says does represent the companies sponsoring the event. As the face, this is his burden.
1) YOU are the leader and the face of this movement. You don't see public figures, ie; a sports person, or musician blatantly rip the shit out of others in their field in offensive ways. In order to pull that off, a certain level of friendship between the two at talking point is required.
2) Its about professionalism. You're either a likable 22 year old larrikin, or you're the leader of western ESPORTS. You can't be both. NASLs leader can't be a funny jackass.
1) He's not the pope of fucking SC2, and professional SC2 is not 'a movement'. If he's the leader, what's Russ supposed to be -- the God of Starcraft?
Geoff got a really cool job representing a league in a young and developing sport. It's like the rise of skateboarding in the early 80's and 90's. The 'faces' of skateboarding popularized it by being funny and charismatic, not by being politically correct or 'perfect'.
2) You CAN be both.
Tiger Woods isn't the "pope" of Golf, however as a professional under the spotlight, he brought the sport into disrepute. That is the power that iNcontrol has been granted here. Likening SC2 to skating is a bit far fetched too. Back in the day when skating was starting up there wasn't money, there wasn't a worldwide audience, and there wasn't sponsorship. SC2 is already at that stage where A FULL households yearly wage can be won in 1 season of the NASL. Initially, when skating "punks" (I use the term lightly) were getting around, it was for the ride, not the money or fame. SC2 has exceeded the early stages of skating already simply due to the audience and the money.
This shit isn't a game to the sponsors giving away hundreds of thousands of dollars to have THEIR product in the limelight. What would the outcome be to have your line of RAM advertised to Chinese/Singaporean/Malaysian/Taiwanese viewers, by a presenter who has personally attacked the asian accent in the past.
The answer is: FUCKING devastating. While I don't find iNcontrol's comments "racist," others out there might. The NASL will be broadcast world wide. Mocking a minority that is viewing, and very likely buying the products advertised is so unprofessional, and I fear that if iNcontrol doesn't pull his head in, it has the potential to drive sponsors away.
I will restate what I said before. iNcontrol has his heart DEEP in the right place. He meant no malice, but it came across that way. I have no doubt he is the person for the job. I have no doubt he can put this behind him and learn the lesson. I just don't want the lesson to be forgotten too quickly. Serious money, serious market exposure for sponsors is on the line, and what iNcontrol says does represent the companies sponsoring the event. As the face, this is his burden.
What you fail to understand is that incontrol is in the positions he's in because he's fucking INCONTROL. Would you really even consider him if it wasn't for his personality? No offense to him, but the player incontrol is nothing to the personality incontrol.
On February 27 2011 12:36 iNcontroL wrote: I've responded to every PM I've received about that. mani brought it up in this thread for reasons beyond me.. they aren't connected at all and it's out of place here.
Well what is the status of the guide / why is it still for sale with your name all over it? Isn't it kind of bad to leave it out there will tons of misleading information? You owe me no answers but I'd be curious to know what is going on with it.
If you have legitimate questions please PM me. Derailing a thread on something important to me with something you feel is another atrocity or something is a derailing attempt I don't care to entertain.
Thank you! I haven't seen any other comments in a while say it, so I thought I would. I appreciate what you're doing for North American Starcraft. Nerd history shall remember you.
As you have realized, where the line is for what you say or do is much closer when your are a more public figure, and especially so when you are acting in a "professional" capacity. As long as you remain cognizant of this, you should be fine. I don't expect you to be as flamboyant in your NASL casting as you are in SotG, rather retaining your style during your GCPL casts. I see them as basically like sports radio (SotG/forums) where you can be much more edgy/opinionated and a regular broadcast (NASL/GCPL) where there is much more scrutiny.
On February 27 2011 12:36 iNcontroL wrote: I've responded to every PM I've received about that. mani brought it up in this thread for reasons beyond me.. they aren't connected at all and it's out of place here.
Well what is the status of the guide / why is it still for sale with your name all over it? Isn't it kind of bad to leave it out there will tons of misleading information? You owe me no answers but I'd be curious to know what is going on with it.
If you have legitimate questions please PM me. Derailing a thread on something important to me with something you feel is another atrocity or something is a derailing attempt I don't care to entertain.
Not an atrocity to me but maybe the people who spent $100 for a guide under the promise that it would have constant updates only to receive zero.
Is that not important enough to you for this thread? All those hapless noobs with empty piggy banks and empty promises from the GosuThis and the GosuThat might fear being burned a second time when it's the same guy selling them a 3 season pass to a new league.
I don't see it as much of a derailment, I thought this blog was to mark your newfound professionalism by addressing past mistakes. Or am I mistaken and was GosuGuide in fact a rousing success, so much so that you're now ashamed to talk about it
1) YOU are the leader and the face of this movement. You don't see public figures, ie; a sports person, or musician blatantly rip the shit out of others in their field in offensive ways. In order to pull that off, a certain level of friendship between the two at talking point is required.
2) Its about professionalism. You're either a likable 22 year old larrikin, or you're the leader of western ESPORTS. You can't be both. NASLs leader can't be a funny jackass.
1) He's not the pope of fucking SC2, and professional SC2 is not 'a movement'. If he's the leader, what's Russ supposed to be -- the God of Starcraft?
Geoff got a really cool job representing a league in a young and developing sport. It's like the rise of skateboarding in the early 80's and 90's. The 'faces' of skateboarding popularized it by being funny and charismatic, not by being politically correct or 'perfect'.
2) You CAN be both.
Tiger Woods isn't the "pope" of Golf, however as a professional under the spotlight, he brought the sport into disrepute. That is the power that iNcontrol has been granted here. Likening SC2 to skating is a bit far fetched too. Back in the day when skating was starting up there wasn't money, there wasn't a worldwide audience, and there wasn't sponsorship. SC2 is already at that stage where A FULL households yearly wage can be won in 1 season of the NASL. Initially, when skating "punks" (I use the term lightly) were getting around, it was for the ride, not the money or fame. SC2 has exceeded the early stages of skating already simply due to the audience and the money.
This shit isn't a game to the sponsors giving away hundreds of thousands of dollars to have THEIR product in the limelight. What would the outcome be to have your line of RAM advertised to Chinese/Singaporean/Malaysian/Taiwanese viewers, by a presenter who has personally attacked the asian accent in the past.
The answer is: FUCKING devastating. While I don't find iNcontrol's comments "racist," others out there might. The NASL will be broadcast world wide. Mocking a minority that is viewing, and very likely buying the products advertised is so unprofessional, and I fear that if iNcontrol doesn't pull his head in, it has the potential to drive sponsors away.
I will restate what I said before. iNcontrol has his heart DEEP in the right place. He meant no malice, but it came across that way. I have no doubt he is the person for the job. I have no doubt he can put this behind him and learn the lesson. I just don't want the lesson to be forgotten too quickly. Serious money, serious market exposure for sponsors is on the line, and what iNcontrol says does represent the companies sponsoring the event. As the face, this is his burden.
What you fail to understand is that incontrol is in the positions he's in because he's fucking INCONTROL. Would you really even consider him if it wasn't for his personality? No offense to him, but the player incontrol is nothing to the personality incontrol.
Just because he is iNcontrol, he is allowed to offend people that he is trying to sell things to? What YOU fail to realize is without sponsors trying to sell products, there IS no NASL. There is no esports, there is no late nights cheering your favorite players on from the other side of the world. Sponsors are more important than having a fun-loving guy telling us play-by-plays. Welcome to capitalism, where it is all about the money. As I said previous, mocking or teasing your target audience in an offensive manner isn't going to get you the sell. Therefor, isn't going to get you the sponsors.
"BUT HE'S INCONTROLL!!!!!" isn't a valid argument. A name doesn't give you a free pass to upset minorities.
As I said dude. Please PM me with questions. Your accusations and general tone is right up there with just about every post you make about me so asking you to change now was a bit silly on my part.
1) YOU are the leader and the face of this movement. You don't see public figures, ie; a sports person, or musician blatantly rip the shit out of others in their field in offensive ways. In order to pull that off, a certain level of friendship between the two at talking point is required.
2) Its about professionalism. You're either a likable 22 year old larrikin, or you're the leader of western ESPORTS. You can't be both. NASLs leader can't be a funny jackass.
1) He's not the pope of fucking SC2, and professional SC2 is not 'a movement'. If he's the leader, what's Russ supposed to be -- the God of Starcraft?
Geoff got a really cool job representing a league in a young and developing sport. It's like the rise of skateboarding in the early 80's and 90's. The 'faces' of skateboarding popularized it by being funny and charismatic, not by being politically correct or 'perfect'.
2) You CAN be both.
Tiger Woods isn't the "pope" of Golf, however as a professional under the spotlight, he brought the sport into disrepute. That is the power that iNcontrol has been granted here. Likening SC2 to skating is a bit far fetched too. Back in the day when skating was starting up there wasn't money, there wasn't a worldwide audience, and there wasn't sponsorship. SC2 is already at that stage where A FULL households yearly wage can be won in 1 season of the NASL. Initially, when skating "punks" (I use the term lightly) were getting around, it was for the ride, not the money or fame. SC2 has exceeded the early stages of skating already simply due to the audience and the money.
This shit isn't a game to the sponsors giving away hundreds of thousands of dollars to have THEIR product in the limelight. What would the outcome be to have your line of RAM advertised to Chinese/Singaporean/Malaysian/Taiwanese viewers, by a presenter who has personally attacked the asian accent in the past.
The answer is: FUCKING devastating. While I don't find iNcontrol's comments "racist," others out there might. The NASL will be broadcast world wide. Mocking a minority that is viewing, and very likely buying the products advertised is so unprofessional, and I fear that if iNcontrol doesn't pull his head in, it has the potential to drive sponsors away.
I will restate what I said before. iNcontrol has his heart DEEP in the right place. He meant no malice, but it came across that way. I have no doubt he is the person for the job. I have no doubt he can put this behind him and learn the lesson. I just don't want the lesson to be forgotten too quickly. Serious money, serious market exposure for sponsors is on the line, and what iNcontrol says does represent the companies sponsoring the event. As the face, this is his burden.
What you fail to understand is that incontrol is in the positions he's in because he's fucking INCONTROL. Would you really even consider him if it wasn't for his personality? No offense to him, but the player incontrol is nothing to the personality incontrol.
Just because he is iNcontrol, he is allowed to offend people that he is trying to sell things to? What YOU fail to realize is without sponsors trying to sell products, there IS no NASL. There is no esports, there is no late nights cheering your favorite players on from the other side of the world. Sponsors are more important than having a fun-loving guy telling us play-by-plays. Welcome to capitalism, where it is all about the money. As I said previous, mocking or teasing your target audience in an offensive manner isn't going to get you the sell. Therefor, isn't going to get you the sponsors.
"BUT HE'S INCONTROLL!!!!!" isn't a valid argument. A name doesn't give you a free pass to upset minorities.
It isn't an argument. I'm not defending his actions as the "face of NASL". My point is that he's only in that position because of who he is (or was, because of people like you). I'm not trying to argue "OMG HES FUCKING INCONTROL HE CAN SAY W/E HE WANTS LOLOL", I'm trying to point out that his personality is part of the reason he was chosen to be in that position in the first place.
Clearly you want to argue against him so you can get a little attention and that's understandable. Being the rebel is way easier than being a level headed person who actually uses their brain.
Clearly you want to argue against him so you can get a little attention and that's understandable. Being the rebel is way easier than being a level headed person who actually uses their brain.
So... Being the guy taking the piss out of minorities is being the level headed person, and me stating that it doesn't look good to sponsors is being the rebel? What would I do with attention? I'm just like all of you - a fucking nobody. I don't intend on trying to change that. However, just like iNcontrol's title doesn't give him a free pass, my lack of title doesn't make my point any less valid.
If you read my past posts, I have wished iNcontrol the best on numerous occasions. The guy means well, but his role in the SC2 scene just sky rocketted in importance.
Clearly you want to argue against him so you can get a little attention and that's understandable. Being the rebel is way easier than being a level headed person who actually uses their brain.
So... Being the guy taking the piss out of minorities is being the level headed person, and me stating that it doesn't look good to sponsors is being the rebel? What would I do with attention? I'm just like all of you - a fucking nobody. I don't intend on trying to change that. However, just like iNcontrol's title doesn't give him a free pass, my lack of title doesn't make my point any less valid.
If you read my past posts, I have wished iNcontrol the best on numerous occasions. The guy means well, but his role in the SC2 scene just sky rocketted in importance.
I can't imagine him begging for that responsibility. I'm not sure, because I'm not at all involved. I don't understand your whole "taking the piss out of minorities" statement. Making fun of a horrible caster warrants that? You make absolutely no sense.
I can't imagine him begging for that responsibility. I'm not sure, because I'm not at all involved. I don't understand your whole "taking the piss out of minorities" statement. Making fun of a horrible caster warrants that? You make absolutely no sense.
Mocking an Asian due to their accent is an age-old joke. I think its a joke, however others would call it overt racism. Some of the people who think its overt racism may be paying for season tickets, or buying X brand's RAM.
The responsibility comes with the territory. Lindsey Lohan didn't ask to be photographed snorting coke. When you nominate yourself to be in the limelight, you need to act professional at all times... It sucks ass at times, but thats all part of the game.
I can't imagine him begging for that responsibility. I'm not sure, because I'm not at all involved. I don't understand your whole "taking the piss out of minorities" statement. Making fun of a horrible caster warrants that? You make absolutely no sense.
Mocking an Asian due to their accent is an age-old joke. I think its a joke, however others would call it overt racism. Some of the people who think its overt racism may be paying for season tickets, or buying X brand's RAM.
The responsibility comes with the territory. Lindsey Lohan didn't ask to be photographed snorting coke. When you nominate yourself to be in the limelight, you need to act professional at all times... It sucks ass at times, but thats all part of the game.
Shut up already. You've stated your opinion clearly enough and honestly I'm sure I'm not the only one who gets your point and wishes you to let it go at that. If you have something constructive to say that's another matter but please...we get your point already!
I can't imagine him begging for that responsibility. I'm not sure, because I'm not at all involved. I don't understand your whole "taking the piss out of minorities" statement. Making fun of a horrible caster warrants that? You make absolutely no sense.
Mocking an Asian due to their accent is an age-old joke. I think its a joke, however others would call it overt racism. Some of the people who think its overt racism may be paying for season tickets, or buying X brand's RAM.
The responsibility comes with the territory. Lindsey Lohan didn't ask to be photographed snorting coke. When you nominate yourself to be in the limelight, you need to act professional at all times... It sucks ass at times, but thats all part of the game.
I see more of the mocking due to her lack of knowledge rather than her accent (it adds to the funny factor). Even if it wasn't, it's pure comedy gold. Look at where the joke was made, a show where everyone is laid back and open, providing entertainment and an insider for unappreciative people like you. I would consider nony the utmost professional, but even he has his outbursts on SOTG.
Incontrol isn't racist, he's fucking hilarious. Anyone who can't see past that is retarded.
EDIT: To add on one of my last points, do you really think incontrol would act the way he does on SOTG, on a professional stream for a tournament worth that much money? I don't think you can separate a show that is done for the community and a huge tournament worth lots of money and exposure for western esports.
BluePabs don't tell him to shut up, and RaFeStaR don't call people brainless [Edit: or retarded]. You're actually making the situation worse by being offensive. Keep it civil. It's Inc's apology/discussion blog. Not a brawl.
On February 27 2011 14:54 Subversive wrote: BluePabs don't tell him to shut up, and RaFeStaR don't call people brainless. You're actually making the situation worse by being offensive. Keep it civil. It's Inc's apology/discussion blog. Not a brawl.
I'm discussing how ignorant it is to constantly bash a guy who has spent the last 3 days trying to apologize. Not only that, he wants to completely change who he is so people like brah can get satisfaction.
Shut up already. You've stated your opinion clearly enough and honestly I'm sure I'm not the only one who gets your point and wishes you to let it go at that. If you have something constructive to say that's another matter but please...we get your point already!
I agree with you... I want to leave it, as I feel I've said all I need too... but...
On February 27 2011 14:51 RaFeStaR wrote:
Incontrol isn't racist, he's fucking hilarious. Anyone who can't see past that is retarded.
EDIT: To add on one of my last points, do you really think incontrol would act the way he does on SOTG, on a professional stream for a tournament worth that much money? I don't think you can separate a show that is done for the community and a huge tournament worth lots of money and exposure for western esports.
This guy just doesn't get it. I SAY that I find what iNcontrol said was a joke... He retorts my point, but agrees with me :S
Then some stupid shit about not being a jackass on the proper NASL stream etc... Is like saying Lindsey Lohan won't snort coke on the set of the Disney movie, she'll do it in her own time, so its OK.
This guy just doesn't get it
Final point... Like it or not, as the face of a product, you need to be professional at all times. Bluepabs, I thought I made my point clear enough already too... Thanks for the affirmation.
i dont want to place blame on 'her', but the e-drama on this site has hit stratospheric levels and its having such a terrible effect on the community at large. you can't even get an opinion in without starting a war.
like what chill was saying on weapon of choice (i think?) with djwheat. people are no longer players of the game. people far more enjoy the drama, the daily soap of esports. the fact that even incontrol feels he needs to be apologize for, well, being incontrol, is mind boggling (aside from the gsl restream). dear incontrol, hopefully you dont get sucked into all this crap and will continue to be the big gaudy bear we all love. dont let oversensitive people get to you. its that bear we all know and would hate to lose.
Bluepabs, I thought I made my point clear enough already too... Thanks for the affirmation.
And I apologize for the abrasiveness of my post. I should have been more consciousness in choosing my words, I'm sorry if it was offensive.
I took no offense. What you said was correct... I have been going on and on and on like a broken record. There is always an individual who mistakes my posts as "iNcontrol BASHING!! WAHH!!" instead of "This guy is looking out for the sponsors which make these events possible."
BluePabs clearly has a point. Incontrol put himself into the spotlight to help grow Nasl. How do you grow NASL? You get sponsors to help expand. Just being hilarious won't help grow Nasl.There has to be a level of professionalism. We here at TL all wants Nasl to succeed. And for the record, some of the sponsors of gsl (newegg/gSkill) has an asian CEO.
I can't imagine him begging for that responsibility. I'm not sure, because I'm not at all involved. I don't understand your whole "taking the piss out of minorities" statement. Making fun of a horrible caster warrants that? You make absolutely no sense.
Mocking an Asian due to their accent is an age-old joke. I think its a joke, however others would call it overt racism. Some of the people who think its overt racism may be paying for season tickets, or buying X brand's RAM.
The responsibility comes with the territory. Lindsey Lohan didn't ask to be photographed snorting coke. When you nominate yourself to be in the limelight, you need to act professional at all times... It sucks ass at times, but thats all part of the game.
Yes, there is a bit more onus for InControl to act more 'professional' and diplomatic. But what exactly has he done that even comes close to:
a) snorting coke b) showing the paparazzi his vagina c) cheating on his wife with dozens of women, including pornstars d) claiming that the Jews ruin everything e) etc., etc.
The worse thing the guy has ever done is make some off-color remarks.
In regards to racism against Asians -- I'm Chinese, and personally, I thought he was making fun of Milkes and not Asians in general. I didn't find it offensive at all. But that's just me.
People might find InControl offensive from time to time, and I understand that. But to his to credit, when the guy has fun with people, he's equally offensive across all cultures and ethnicities -- Jews, Germans, British, Koreans, Horses ... I have a hard time believing that his humor comes from a dark place.
In what planet does "Watching a re-stream" == "Restreaming".
If anything, iNcontroL should've been warned / banned / whatever for dubious judgement or abusive use of his moderating powers, but your ban should have never been lifted.
Being yourself is what makes you a good 'selling point' if you weren't so off-color and charismatic no one would care. You'd be boring. But you're not; so keep doing what you're doing and let the haters hate!
Well, I'm going to become really sad if you stop being on SotG or streaming - or especially if you continue doing those, but only commentate on stuff like a lawyer would do, with no personal opinion or huge chunk of sarcasm.
I have grown into a huge fan of you and even though you have no idea who I am, I really hope your life is as awesome as it can be, andyeah. </gay>
I'll be honest, I've always thought of you as a little over-arrogant, but that could very well have been due to the limiting nature of online posting. I could probably enjoy your crude remarks and offensive jokes in real life.
On February 27 2011 16:37 fer wrote: What's wrong with Huko?
In what planet does "Watching a re-stream" == "Restreaming".
If anything, iNcontroL should've been warned / banned / whatever for dubious judgement or abusive use of his moderating powers, but your ban should have never been lifted.
what dubious judgement? and what abusive use of his moderating powers?
Watching a restream and restreaming both give out the same result i.e showing live gsl matches, but it is free anyway (unless you watch HQ, but people aren't gonna restream something that they paid for, i mean would you feel like showing hq stream to others when you paid for it and they didnt?) so i don't know what the big fuss is about with the restreams.
Beeing honest and giving people a hard time is what I really like about you Geoff. There are many public figures who choose to be outspoken and gain huge support because of it, beeing controversial is not wrong in itself. I would hate to see you try to please everybody if it would go against your own nature. Besides there's always going to be people complaining no matter how politically correct you are.
You are an important person in e-sports so you have to be a role model when it comes to the industry, other than that I think you should give fuck all and keep doing your thing.
Geoff I think that you're a fantastic person and perfect representative of the SC2 community. You're fun and sarcastic when streaming, in State of the Game, etc., and when it becomes necessary to take the podium you can just change face and be a professional.
With that said, I think that you should remember how the most vocal people are the ones with the least to say and that the cry of one person that thinks you're shit is easily heard about the rest. But I'm willing to bet that there's only like 1 out of every 400 people that actually doesn't think you're doing a fantastic job.
On February 27 2011 18:37 Animostas wrote: Geoff I think that you're a fantastic person and perfect representative of the SC2 community. You're fun and sarcastic when streaming, in State of the Game, etc., and when it becomes necessary to take the podium you can just change face and be a professional.
With that said, I think that you should remember how the most vocal people are the ones with the least to say and that the cry of one person that thinks you're shit is easily heard about the rest. But I'm willing to bet that there's only like 1 out of every 400 people that actually doesn't think you're doing a fantastic job.
^ Right, because people weren't thinking that already. How in the world could someone possibly think it's hard to understand her.
Don't get me wrong, i thought it was mildly offensive as someone who is half asian, but on the other hand it isn't far off what many people are thinking already. But it's much more enjoyable to get an honest opinion from someone, than simply being quite about it. If we want esports to improve, their should be open (albeit immature) dialogue. If we just accept the way everything is going, things will never improve. There is nothing wrong with questioning the choice of someone who will represent esports.
Love what you do iNcontrol. I think you're a great person for this, you show to those outside the community that you don't have to be some awkward nerd to enjoy esports. i can't believe people are up in arms about what you've done, that's right in line with people bashing howard stern, tom green, and others because they have their panties in a bunch. Get over it.
Keep things in check, remember where your priorities are, but at the end of the day haters gonna hate and if you have an opinion about anything, someone is going to get offended by it, but you interest many more. That's why we remember you, and others remember esports.
On February 27 2011 19:22 Belial88 wrote: ^ Right, because people weren't thinking that already. How in the world could someone possibly think it's hard to understand her.
Don't get me wrong, i thought it was mildly offensive as someone who is half asian, but on the other hand it isn't far off what many people are thinking already. But it's much more enjoyable to get an honest opinion from someone, than simply being quite about it. If we want esports to improve, their should be open (albeit immature) dialogue. If we just accept the way everything is going, things will never improve. There is nothing wrong with questioning the choice of someone who will represent esports.
Love what you do iNcontrol. I think you're a great person for this, you show to those outside the community that you don't have to be some awkward nerd to enjoy esports. i can't believe people are up in arms about what you've done, that's right in line with people bashing howard stern, tom green, and others because they have their panties in a bunch. Get over it.
Keep things in check, remember where your priorities are, but at the end of the day haters gonna hate and if you have an opinion about anything, someone is going to get offended by it, but you interest many more. That's why we remember you, and others remember esports.
Look dude, here's the thing: just because people who are half-Asian or Asian say that they are not offended by by InC does not mean that I, and others, are not offended by him. When I heard the way he mocked Kelly, it was seriously a WTF moment for me.
Now, stepping away from what I feel personally, let's think about what InC represents for the growth of E-Sports, and Starcraft in North America. How many female, non-white English casters are there out there, and more importantly, why is the lack of such diversity so important?
Look into the audience of any professional SC1 studio broadcast in Korea. What is the gender ratio? I bet you will find young women, as well as men, and sometimes even families all watching Starcraft. We don't have this culture in the United States. Whenever someone comes around, someone like Kelly who might be a "noob" in your opinion, we just flame them to death. Hell, even a "respected member" like InC mocked her publically.
Look guys, I know you are all friends with Inc and wish him the best but if you want E-Sports to be mainstream, you CANNOT marginalize certain members of the community the way InC did. If he, or other members continue to do so, Starcraft will continue to be something that is enjoyed by men in the 14-26 year old bracket and no one outside of that.
On February 27 2011 16:37 fer wrote: What's wrong with Huko?
In what planet does "Watching a re-stream" == "Restreaming".
If anything, iNcontroL should've been warned / banned / whatever for dubious judgement or abusive use of his moderating powers, but your ban should have never been lifted.
what dubious judgement? and what abusive use of his moderating powers?
Watching a restream and restreaming both give out the same result i.e showing live gsl matches, but it is free anyway (unless you watch HQ, but people aren't gonna restream something that they paid for, i mean would you feel like showing hq stream to others when you paid for it and they didnt?) so i don't know what the big fuss is about with the restreams.
People frequently share things that they payed for and other people didn't. Have you never shared a pack of crisps that you bought with someone?
True, there really is too much sexism around for it to be conducive to getting more women as players, fans. SuperDanielMan's english wasn't great either. I never once remember someone bashing him for it. Maybe the community has changed and become less tolerant, but I think it's more likely the reason that Kelly is a woman that she is copping so much shit.
Before anyone jumps in and says 'Hey! I'm not sexist and I don't like her casting' for a), b), c) reasons, I'm not saying every single person who has any criticism of Kelly is sexist. Simply that the amount of abuse is fueled in part by it. And really, reading some of the comments tonight like:
someone put a dick down kelly's throat, she needs to stfu and let tasteless talk, I can;t understand kelly have the time
Kelly's job requires good English and frankly her accent is unbearable. If you think she's hot, watch your porn before your Starcraft
lilsusie had x10 more fluent English and way hotter than Kelly -_-
Super daniel man had an accent but it's one we enjoyed and he had REAL insight into the game. Super daniel man was funny and he told it like it is. Bring back SDM! or even lilsusie for her big juggs!
Yeah... It's definitely not sexism...
(note these were from the GOM forums but the point is THOSE people are the community. The reason most of them aren't so blunt here is because we have good moderation).
On February 27 2011 09:53 ImHuko wrote: So now because people can't take being verbal assaulted they are now less secure. After all, you did ban someone for criticizing you. So other than being asian, it is in fact the same.
Jesus man, you're beating a dead horse. Stop trying to win people to your side against iNcontroL whilst professing to be a fan. You're not making yourself look very good. If you have a beef with him still, discuss it with him personally. Stop trying to sway people to your side of events. Whilst Inc is being contrite and apologising you're still banging away at his sins, while not apologising yourself for anything or accepting any blame for what happened. At this point you're just damaging your own version of events.
Like I said before, I indeed look like a complete douche because I was involved. This is a deadhorse to everyone who actually knows what happened, but the majority don't (as you can see in this blog). Post after post its like, haters gon hate, keep doing what you do, so I am responding to the fact that "haters" have a perfectly valid reason to hate.
On February 27 2011 09:53 ImHuko wrote: So now because people can't take being verbal assaulted they are now less secure. After all, you did ban someone for criticizing you. So other than being asian, it is in fact the same.
Jesus man, you're beating a dead horse. Stop trying to win people to your side against iNcontroL whilst professing to be a fan. You're not making yourself look very good. If you have a beef with him still, discuss it with him personally. Stop trying to sway people to your side of events. Whilst Inc is being contrite and apologising you're still banging away at his sins, while not apologising yourself for anything or accepting any blame for what happened. At this point you're just damaging your own version of events.
Like I said before, I indeed look like a complete douche because I was involved. This is a deadhorse to everyone who actually knows what happened, but the majority don't (as you can see in this blog). Post after post its like, haters gon hate, keep doing what you do, so I am responding to the fact that "haters" have a perfectly valid reason to hate.
Let them read the thread. What are you trying to do, reply with the same complaints over 90 pages because they didn't read the previous comments? They're not going to read your responses then either. They'll make their comment of support, then close the tab.
On February 27 2011 16:37 fer wrote: What's wrong with Huko?
In what planet does "Watching a re-stream" == "Restreaming".
If anything, iNcontroL should've been warned / banned / whatever for dubious judgement or abusive use of his moderating powers, but your ban should have never been lifted.
what dubious judgement? and what abusive use of his moderating powers?
Watching a restream and restreaming both give out the same result i.e showing live gsl matches, but it is free anyway (unless you watch HQ, but people aren't gonna restream something that they paid for, i mean would you feel like showing hq stream to others when you paid for it and they didnt?) so i don't know what the big fuss is about with the restreams.
People frequently share things that they payed for and other people didn't. Have you never shared a pack of crisps that you bought with someone?
Well you practically share a pack of crisps with a friend, whereas the HQ restream is 1 person buying and letting some randoms get same privilege for free.
And what's with all this sexism talk? How does sexism come into this? I get that kelly is hugely critisised and that shes a women, but i mean, i must be missing something.
On topic: I think that you raise a valid point. However consider that your (online) personality is what your fans like about you, trying to change that will be forced and weird. I will follow your casts and content no matter how you decide to adress this issue but in my opinion simply trying to cut down a little on the things that people take serious offense to should be enough.
And your restream of the GSL was not even that big of a deal to be honest. No one was watching that instead of the GSL streamed matches. It was a totally different type of content and you might aswell had been doing an audio only stream. Then it would be no problem. You had the window for the stream so small that people couldnt really make out what was happening.
I can't imagine him begging for that responsibility. I'm not sure, because I'm not at all involved. I don't understand your whole "taking the piss out of minorities" statement. Making fun of a horrible caster warrants that? You make absolutely no sense.
Mocking an Asian due to their accent is an age-old joke. I think its a joke, however others would call it overt racism. Some of the people who think its overt racism may be paying for season tickets, or buying X brand's RAM.
The responsibility comes with the territory. Lindsey Lohan didn't ask to be photographed snorting coke. When you nominate yourself to be in the limelight, you need to act professional at all times... It sucks ass at times, but thats all part of the game.
Anyone who takes offense at impersonating an accent is a buffoon. You hear mocking of British accents, Italian accents, French accents, why isn't that considered racist? Just because those cultures are all white? Mocking one of those cultures is equally insensitive to mocking Singaporean culture, and in any case it is completely innocuous. It's not even comparable to an embarrassing and crippling drug addiction.
iNcontroL, you have nothing to apologize for, except perhaps the ambiguous "restreaming" (it barely qualifies as that, I guess). It angers me that you're being punished and put in a position to censor yourself. Look at Artosis, he makes fun of the players in the GSL all the time, does GOM care? Do the fans care? No way. This whole thing is being overblown just because a few people want to pretend it's a race issue.
What was the quote ? ""With great power comes great responsibility ?"
I like Incontrol's sense of humor most of the time despite (but also because of) his cockyness, arrogance and so on, but maybe only because it's never been directed at a community I was part of (or I didn't care that much about it) so the whole damn thing is hard to judge. People saying he had nothing to apologize for just see things from their own perspective. I don't know what Kelly's exact reaction to the impersonation was, nor if players from Singapore watching the stream or hearing about it later on thought it was so funny. I'd be interested to have their opinion but I guess they don't spend that much time on TL. What's funny in one culture might not be in another. If you plan to go international, it's a thing to be taken into account.
I once criticized Rotterdam's casting (was it here or on irc, don't remember), just mentioning I didn't like his accent because it was hard for me to understand and got fanboys jumping at me in a sec calling me ignorant, american (!), troll, etc - when we're actually almost neighbours...
Being a public figure and used to the forum heat Inc should have expected that reaction from the Kelly-thing. Well what's done is done, it's good that he apologized and as they say...there's no such thing as bad press(?).
Still, if you're a public figure and you wanna appeal to a huge international audience, it's 100% certain Inc will have to add water to his wine, otherwise he's (and nasl) could quickly get sponsor/audience whipped . There's always gonna be a lot of people supporting him whatever he does, but I think part of their project is to attract new people to starcraft/e-sport and if some newcomer from Singapore or France just tune in to a nasl stream for the first time and hear a joke with racist undertones (and no, I'm not saying he's racist, don't even go there), not all of them will stay around until the second one pops out.
The whole Kelly thread reminded me a bit of a light version of the Michael Richards thingie, one (sad/bad) joke gone awfully wrong and seems he's had to hear about it since (and excuses didn't do much about it, but maybe made him feel better about himself...)
I personally can't wait for the whole NASL, I'm glad he's a part of it, I liked the old incontrol, I'll just wait and see what the new one is gonna be worth. Diet Coke never worked for me, but you never know, I hope he surprises me with a new formula.
hi incontrol. i know you probably wont read this, but i hope youre doing what YOU want to do. f**k what everyone else says. youre hilarious and people need to stop being so sensitive. it blows my mind how people dont understand sarcasm, satire, and just jokes in general. sometimes the starcraft community's nerdy-ness really disappoints me. this goes with the whole "bm" thing with idra. people need to get over it. who cares.
You didn't do anything wrong you shouldn't have to apologize, you acted in a way that people know and already expect you to act in which is both enjoyable and endearing. You take the good with the bad, if throwing around a few inappropriate jokes was grounds for removal Dana White wouldn't have a career in the UFC. Stay the course bud Stay the course
On February 27 2011 22:35 lisafrankgirl wrote: hi incontrol. i know you probably wont read this, but i hope youre doing what YOU want to do. f**k what everyone else says. youre hilarious and people need to stop being so sensitive. it blows my mind how people dont understand sarcasm, satire, and just jokes in general. sometimes the starcraft community's nerdy-ness really disappoints me. this goes with the whole "bm" thing with idra. people need to get over it. who cares.
The People you are referring to are the consumers that will buy the products sponsoring the events. It is those consumers that are "sensitive" that the sponsors are targeting... it would be bad business for the sponsors not to be concerned.
iNconTrol has apologized and I believe he has learned that with this new position he must be more responsible and sensitive to what the masses require of such a position. I personally commend him for stepping up and accepting what had happened and commend him even more for understanding how the capitalism machine operates.
I read the thread of the original incident, and the reddit thread started by Huko, and I've gotta say; I really hope this whole thing doesn't stop you from doing your usual shenenigans
Sigh, I feel an apology is having a reverse effect. By apologizing, you underline that there is a problem with you, your attitude and how you talk to people. You admit there are flaws, we all do, but it becomes the focus of you. Those who talked, sputtered crap, those who were fine with you did what mattered: watched your stream and support you. We won't come to your rescue in these topics because we all know it's pointless.
The haters will talk and they'll talk loud ruining everyone's enjoyment and making the waters mucky.
But honestly? You're a great man and your deeds are not under appreciated or unappreciated at all. Remember that.
Did you cross the line a few times? Not to me, but that's my perception, it's good that you apologized for those a bit sensitive, but in the end, your actions will speak louder than words and you know this.
That's it, just wanted to give you a pat on the back, shield my face and continue cheering you on. I hate Protoss but I know we're brotosses mang!
Like most have said, don't take the haters too seriously. Either they love a good debate too and want to spark controversy wherever they can, either they are idiots and don't really care about the game. Keep joking around and being awesome, but you might want to avoid streaming illegal content ().
Just keep being fucking awesome like you have been.
I need my incontrol streaming and SoTGing! Don't give it upand keep moving forward. When I saw that you had restreamed the GSL I kind of facepalmed and then searched the forums for an apology because I knew you would give one.
Just try to take it easy on other casters and don't restream GSL xD
Ignoring the fact that there's always like 10 other restreams of the GSL, and people only bashed on you, the second the JustinTV mod warned you that you shouldn't do it, you turned it off. I really don't understand why people are hating on you.
With the Kelly thing, yeah it was probably wrong, but she asked you to stop and you did. The people that made fun of her weren't making fun of her because you did, they were going to anyways. It was probably right to apologize and you did, people need to just get over it lol.
There are a ton of haters in the community and unfortunately they are the vocal majority, but I really think the large majority of all starcraft fans actually love your personality. So I don't think you should change at all, maybe just don't make fun of Kelly. Let the haters hate and just be yourself man.
On February 27 2011 23:55 Torte de Lini wrote: Sigh, I feel an apology is having a reverse effect. By apologizing, you underline that there is a problem with you, your attitude and how you talk to people. You admit there are flaws, we all do, but it becomes the focus of you. Those who talked, sputtered crap, those who were fine with you did what mattered: watched your stream and support you. We won't come to your rescue in these topics because we all know it's pointless.
The haters will talk and they'll talk loud ruining everyone's enjoyment and making the waters mucky.
But honestly? You're a great man and your deeds are not under appreciated or unappreciated at all. Remember that.
Did you cross the line a few times? Not to me, but that's my perception, it's good that you apologized for those a bit sensitive, but in the end, your actions will speak louder than words and you know this.
That's it, just wanted to give you a pat on the back, shield my face and continue cheering you on. I hate Protoss but I know we're brotosses mang!
^^ Sadly i agree with this post, only gonna allow haters to hate with permission :'(.
Oh yeah i'm going to start hating Geoff cause he restreamed gsl and talked bad about Kelley! Oh wait I just realized it doesn't matter to me, just stay funny.
It's unfortunate that Incontrol's becoming the face of a company/organization, cause i think that a big part of what made him unique was his humor and loose lips(in talking sh*t).
But unfortunately the business world doesn't work like that and he'll have to tone it down and might even disappear from community projects like SotG. Or maybe it'll be ok as JP is a great example of a company man and great community person.
But if Incontrol doesn't turn out to be JP#2, I wish him the best.
Thanks for the apology and for your fervent desire to make NASL successful. Who knows--maybe we, as a community, can bring the glory days of Western esports by banding together and purchasing MLG tee shirts.
Man, people actually got offended over this? I don't even think this apology was necessary. Apologizing to kelly is fine, but Incontrol has no reason to apologize to the community. In fact, i'd like to thank him for the laughs. One of the things i like best about the starcraft community is how laid back it is. We don't try to take ourselves too seriously. We are just playing a game, after all. That's why i was pretty excited to see incontrol as the prominent figure for the NASL- he's a guy that likes to fuck around. I understand there's a large desire for esports to grow in the west, but this whole forced "professionalism" of starcraft is not something i want to see.
On February 27 2011 12:36 iNcontroL wrote: I've responded to every PM I've received about that. mani brought it up in this thread for reasons beyond me.. they aren't connected at all and it's out of place here.
I just thought it was related, since this thread seems to be your chance to clear the air on a lot of stuff, especially when you posted this:
"My profession and the community that is exposed to my profession demand a more serious approach. I do not look at this as a sacrifice but a necessary change. If I was just some player trying to commentate some games I would think my persona fine for that role. But I am not. I am the commentator for a league that is seeking to expand eSports in the west. I am a "face" for a brand that means a different future. "
And I was wondering how that new face relates to some of the other brands you have promoted. Maybe now is the time to address it as it might be more damaging later on when you have a higher profile. That was my motivation.
On February 27 2011 23:55 Torte de Lini wrote: Sigh, I feel an apology is having a reverse effect. By apologizing, you underline that there is a problem with you, your attitude and how you talk to people. You admit there are flaws, we all do, but it becomes the focus of you. Those who talked, sputtered crap, those who were fine with you did what mattered: watched your stream and support you. We won't come to your rescue in these topics because we all know it's pointless.
The haters will talk and they'll talk loud ruining everyone's enjoyment and making the waters mucky.
But honestly? You're a great man and your deeds are not under appreciated or unappreciated at all. Remember that.
Did you cross the line a few times? Not to me, but that's my perception, it's good that you apologized for those a bit sensitive, but in the end, your actions will speak louder than words and you know this.
That's it, just wanted to give you a pat on the back, shield my face and continue cheering you on. I hate Protoss but I know we're brotosses mang!
^^ Sadly i agree with this post, only gonna allow haters to hate with permission :'(.
iNcontroL Hwaiting!
To think there wasn't anything to apologise for is a bit naive.. things needed to be addressed and this was the most mature way to do so..
Hey man - sure there have been some questionable comments in the past but none that would discourage me from placing my esports faith in someone with your passion, drive and commitment to the industry.. By admitting the issues it seems you have accepted the task of change and growing to be a better representative of one of the leading organisations in Western eSports.
There will always be a vocal minority; there will always be a less than enviable douchebag posting nerd-rage on reddit when he feels neglected or unloved.. The maturity in this posts shows that you are better than all of that.. At the end of the day however, actions speak louder than words so only time will tell..
You will always have a huge amount of fans that support you 10000% .. Just keep making history :D
On February 27 2011 12:36 iNcontroL wrote: I've responded to every PM I've received about that. mani brought it up in this thread for reasons beyond me.. they aren't connected at all and it's out of place here.
I just thought it was related, since this thread seems to be your chance to clear the air on a lot of stuff, especially when you posted this:
"My profession and the community that is exposed to my profession demand a more serious approach. I do not look at this as a sacrifice but a necessary change. If I was just some player trying to commentate some games I would think my persona fine for that role. But I am not. I am the commentator for a league that is seeking to expand eSports in the west. I am a "face" for a brand that means a different future. "
And I was wondering how that new face relates to some of the other brands you have promoted. Maybe now is the time to address it as it might be more damaging later on when you have a higher profile. That was my motivation.
Alright that makes sense I appreciate that.
I have responded each PM I have received but I guess I can mention it here as well:
We originally said we will update the guide with videos and maintain it and that was eveyone's intention. The owner/guy that runs everything had his first child and since then became too busy to maintain the site. he tried to delineate work to others to keep it a float but without the main dude driving everything it kinda slowed to a halt. There were SOME updates but nowhere near what we had talked about.
Since then he has been really busy and obviously so have I/machine. The guide is still 13 hours + of content for a 1 time purchase but it isn't as great as we wanted it to be with the "living document" idea.
I wasn't around for what happened but I wish I was. This professionalism thing is being taken too far, and I hope it doesn't start sterilizing everything. Of course the things you said were mean, but so was BiggerT, trolling on BGH and Klazart impressions, and they're all hilarious.
The claim is that "unprofessionalism" will hurt your chances at success, but I haven't seen it negatively impact Dana White and loads of other people promoting niche entertainment.
To be honest, I care more about Mani's points than anything else here.
iNcontrol I am one of the lurkers you talked about in the last SotG... only I like to think I don't post stupid shit... I just never have much to say. I'm terrible. I'm in platinum league. I was in bronze (old silver) for most of the beta... worst of all, I play Terran... and lose to zerg... often...
I don't play this game to be awesome at it. It's fun and so is e-sports.
You are the reason I usually listen to the pod-cast. Its like stand-up (or in this case, probably sit-down) comedy about starcraft. Fuckin awesome.
If you gotta change your image to make the suits and h8ers happy. Hey... gotta do what you gotta do.
On February 27 2011 12:36 iNcontroL wrote: I've responded to every PM I've received about that. mani brought it up in this thread for reasons beyond me.. they aren't connected at all and it's out of place here.
I just thought it was related, since this thread seems to be your chance to clear the air on a lot of stuff, especially when you posted this:
"My profession and the community that is exposed to my profession demand a more serious approach. I do not look at this as a sacrifice but a necessary change. If I was just some player trying to commentate some games I would think my persona fine for that role. But I am not. I am the commentator for a league that is seeking to expand eSports in the west. I am a "face" for a brand that means a different future. "
And I was wondering how that new face relates to some of the other brands you have promoted. Maybe now is the time to address it as it might be more damaging later on when you have a higher profile. That was my motivation.
Alright that makes sense I appreciate that.
I have responded each PM I have received but I guess I can mention it here as well:
We originally said we will update the guide with videos and maintain it and that was eveyone's intention. The owner/guy that runs everything had his first child and since then became too busy to maintain the site. he tried to delineate work to others to keep it a float but without the main dude driving everything it kinda slowed to a halt. There were SOME updates but nowhere near what we had talked about.
Since then he has been really busy and obviously so have I/machine. The guide is still 13 hours + of content for a 1 time purchase but it isn't as great as we wanted it to be with the "living document" idea.
If you're talking about http://gosuguide.com/, maybe it's time to delete your signature from the bottom of that homepage then and leave the problems to the impromptu father. 100 USD for a site that's as good as dead but still advertizes weekly updates, roundtables, etc for such a bargain price doesn't seem like a fair deal anymore.
On February 27 2011 12:36 iNcontroL wrote: I've responded to every PM I've received about that. mani brought it up in this thread for reasons beyond me.. they aren't connected at all and it's out of place here.
I just thought it was related, since this thread seems to be your chance to clear the air on a lot of stuff, especially when you posted this:
"My profession and the community that is exposed to my profession demand a more serious approach. I do not look at this as a sacrifice but a necessary change. If I was just some player trying to commentate some games I would think my persona fine for that role. But I am not. I am the commentator for a league that is seeking to expand eSports in the west. I am a "face" for a brand that means a different future. "
And I was wondering how that new face relates to some of the other brands you have promoted. Maybe now is the time to address it as it might be more damaging later on when you have a higher profile. That was my motivation.
Alright that makes sense I appreciate that.
I have responded each PM I have received but I guess I can mention it here as well:
We originally said we will update the guide with videos and maintain it and that was eveyone's intention. The owner/guy that runs everything had his first child and since then became too busy to maintain the site. he tried to delineate work to others to keep it a float but without the main dude driving everything it kinda slowed to a halt. There were SOME updates but nowhere near what we had talked about.
Since then he has been really busy and obviously so have I/machine. The guide is still 13 hours + of content for a 1 time purchase but it isn't as great as we wanted it to be with the "living document" idea.
Here's the way i see it iNcontroll, if this community was pure Australia(inb4hatefromtrolls) i think people wouldn't give a shit, what you and the production team are doing, is fucking amazing man. Esports needs to be pushed everywhere and in any way possible. I wish we had someone like you in Aus pushing it for us cause over here it fucking sucks. This whole 'drama' is actualy hilarious to me and my friends who are reading this and i know we all agree you shouldn't care so much what the intertrolls say due to you laying down a handfull of jokes around in what like two sentences.
What i think this whole "situation" is like for anyone without a brain
I dont understand this whole expectation of you to act like a robot who is perfect in every single way, i think you need to listen to tasteless' mild rants during GSL when he talks from the perspective of cave-nerds in their basement troll-hut when the slightest hiccup occurs during some cast/production or situation that is so far beyond them that the only satisfaction they will get from wasting 6 seconds of their time is making you upset.
Stay awesome dude and stay above the trolls, its what makes you so entertaining.
On February 28 2011 07:18 Jibba wrote: I wasn't around for what happened but I wish I was. This professionalism thing is being taken too far, and I hope it doesn't start sterilizing everything. Of course the things you said were mean, but so was BiggerT, trolling on BGH and Klazart impressions, and they're all hilarious.
The claim is that "unprofessionalism" will hurt your chances at success, but I haven't seen it negatively impact Dana White and loads of other people promoting niche entertainment.
To be honest, I care more about Mani's points than anything else here.
Perfectly summed up my view on this. G'luck with everything Geoff!
On February 27 2011 12:36 iNcontroL wrote: I've responded to every PM I've received about that. mani brought it up in this thread for reasons beyond me.. they aren't connected at all and it's out of place here.
I just thought it was related, since this thread seems to be your chance to clear the air on a lot of stuff, especially when you posted this:
"My profession and the community that is exposed to my profession demand a more serious approach. I do not look at this as a sacrifice but a necessary change. If I was just some player trying to commentate some games I would think my persona fine for that role. But I am not. I am the commentator for a league that is seeking to expand eSports in the west. I am a "face" for a brand that means a different future. "
And I was wondering how that new face relates to some of the other brands you have promoted. Maybe now is the time to address it as it might be more damaging later on when you have a higher profile. That was my motivation.
Alright that makes sense I appreciate that.
I have responded each PM I have received but I guess I can mention it here as well:
We originally said we will update the guide with videos and maintain it and that was eveyone's intention. The owner/guy that runs everything had his first child and since then became too busy to maintain the site. he tried to delineate work to others to keep it a float but without the main dude driving everything it kinda slowed to a halt. There were SOME updates but nowhere near what we had talked about.
Since then he has been really busy and obviously so have I/machine. The guide is still 13 hours + of content for a 1 time purchase but it isn't as great as we wanted it to be with the "living document" idea.
Here's the way i see it iNcontroll, if this community was pure Australia(inb4hatefromtrolls) i think people wouldn't give a shit, what you and the production team are doing, is fucking amazing man. Esports needs to be pushed everywhere and in any way possible. I wish we had someone like you in Aus pushing it for us cause over here it fucking sucks. This whole 'drama' is actualy hilarious to me and my friends who are reading this and i know we all agree you shouldn't care so much what the intertrolls say due to you laying down a handfull of jokes around in what like two sentences.
I dont understand this whole expectation of you to act like a robot who is perfect in every single way, i think you need to listen to tasteless' mild rants during GSL when he talks from the perspective of cave-nerds in their basement troll-hut when the slightest hiccup occurs during some cast/production or situation that is so far beyond them that the only satisfaction they will get from wasting 6 seconds of their time is making you upset.
Stay awesome dude and stay above the trolls, its what makes you so entertaining.
I don't think people want him to act like a robot, they just don't want him being a dick to someone for their accent, or hypocritically banning people, and he wrote a really good apology for em both already, can't this be dropped already?
On February 28 2011 08:17 rift` wrote: Some people just don't have thick enough skin from growing up in luxury i guess.
Yeah, only poor people can appreciate his unappropriate jokes properly. Silly remark of the day (I'll stay polite, I'm luxury).
On a side note, trolls be trolls and fanboys be fanboys but since he himself expresses the need to "change" for the good of the community / the new job, asking him not to do it time and again, you should wonder on which side you are.
I like the old offensive incontrol, but I do not think it'd be compatible with his new goals/activities. Past that point, it's a big career opportunity for him that's in line, so he knows better than anyone else what he has and what he wants to do to take it in the right direction.
It's too bad that, like in politics, the idiots are the loudest ones. You gotta do what you gotta do man. I respect and appreciate you for that. I am also one of the lurkers you mentioned on SotG. I'm not good, this is my first RTS but I'm going to tell you the truth, your stream and analysis help me understand the game and make me want to become better.
Your comedy and light heartedness help me relax and unwind from school and homework and frustration in general.
Thanks for everything you do, gl hf with NASL!!! <3
Yeah, only poor people can appreciate his unappropriate jokes properly. Silly remark of the day (I'll stay polite, I'm luxury).
So you interpreted "luxury" as a money based comment?
My point is everyone is spoilt these days and expect perfection out of everything/everyone because they think they deserve it(if that wasn't evident in my youtube link, i'm sorry that your brain couldn't put one and one together) and when something happens everyone has a say on said persons personality like any of this is going to effect anything.
If you ever found iNcontroll offensive that sort of plays in to exactly what i was implying, you are thin skinned as he often takes light hearted jabs at people he knows and loves, at least that is my understanding.
Do you think it's fair that Artosis has been bad mouthing sanzenith for like 4 seaons in the GSL? No, no one talks or cares about this because people just enjoy getting their chance to jump on the hate train.
Clearly you want to argue against him so you can get a little attention and that's understandable. Being the rebel is way easier than being a level headed person who actually uses their brain.
So... Being the guy taking the piss out of minorities is being the level headed person, and me stating that it doesn't look good to sponsors is being the rebel? What would I do with attention? I'm just like all of you - a fucking nobody. I don't intend on trying to change that. However, just like iNcontrol's title doesn't give him a free pass, my lack of title doesn't make my point any less valid.
If you read my past posts, I have wished iNcontrol the best on numerous occasions. The guy means well, but his role in the SC2 scene just sky rocketted in importance.
I can't imagine him begging for that responsibility. I'm not sure, because I'm not at all involved. I don't understand your whole "taking the piss out of minorities" statement. Making fun of a horrible caster warrants that? You make absolutely no sense.
He didn't say that he begged for it. But if you read the OP, he seems to feel entitled to it. He seems to feel that he's deserving.
First off, InControl's personality is why 2-3k people watch his stream even at 3 or 4 in the morning central time. If he didn't have this personality he would be more professional with a lot less exposure. Pretty much along the same lines as IdrA, if IdrA didn't get mad and have such an honest asshole type of personality it would make ESports more professional but more boring at the same time. Just look at any sport, there are trash talkers that can split a room of 50 people into 2 groups of 25 and allows for arguments to ensue just because of someones strong personality. This allows for good back stories on players that have this type of manner and attitude.
All Inc should of done in the huko situation is report him to another mod. The restreaming he did himself was more about joking about the commentators and strats that the players were doing. His impersonations of Kelly and TB are just gentle stabs which weren't racist in the slightest. Even before Kelly went to SK to cast the GSL, INC and Kelly always joked and talked back and forth via twitter like good friends poking fun at each other.
Impersonations and comedy are supposed to be taken as jokes. Today we live in such a hypersensitive world where people like to argue that racism is gone, but people still love to point the finger at other people being racist out of their own insecurities about being racist.
That being said, half the reason I watch SOTG and INCs stream is because he doesn't filter himself and you can tell that he is a smart and decent human being. Honestly, people randomly message him stuff like, "NASL is going to suck you fat fuck" and he doesn't get upset, he just wants to know why people treat him that way. If you watch him coach on his stream, you can see that he tolerates people who don't even listen to him or his coaching, when most people would yell at the player to gg, Inc asks nicely to gg and start a new game to fix small mistakes.
Hope NASL works out for the sake of the SC2 community and I know you will do just fine with the amount of passion and time you put into this game. <3
First off let me say that I (we?) believe that you are truely sorry for what you did/what you are mentioning. But honestly saying sorry is just the first step of many. It takes time to get people to trust you, it really feels like you are doing quick damage control as early as possible so that you do not miss out on a good opportunity to be the face of NASL. No one can blame you for that though.
I am not trying to troll, or stir up trouble here on your thread but just giving you my 2 cents. You were just being yourself, a joking funny guy who likes to give people a hard time. That is who you are. And thats exactly why people may feel you are the incorrect person to represent them. They have an idea or image they are trying to represent and hey, maybe it isn't you. Everyone makes mistakes, but saying sorry 8 different ways in a long wordy post doesn't fix everything right away. Take time, show everyone that you "changed" and that is the most trustworthy worthwhile way of doing anything. You are not a child, you know this.
I do not think anyone doubts that you have the means, time, and devotion to be the representative of NASL, but I do think people (now) doubt that you maybe THE guy for it. If this happened a year ago, making fun of Kelly etc, you would have just laughed it off said sorry in a sentence, act sarcastic, and it would have just faded into the void of TL threads.
In short, you were just being yourself, fantastic. That maybe the exact reason why you got in this spot in the first place.
don't get to serious, i think everyone loves the fresh air of some incontrol jokes and behaviour... just because some people are dicks and don't understand your intelligent humor, doesn't mean u have to change for them! i don't think you have have to stop acting how you were in the past, because NASL and everything other "big" isn't worth to lose yourself.
i mean, why does every big institution or government has to act like they are super-perfect-humans... that's just retarded imo... stay who you are, personally i don't like the super serious business incontrol
Wow, according to most people in this blog incontrol can do no wrong. Did you guys see that clip of him walking on water while he healed a blind man? Unbelievable stuff.
On February 28 2011 14:20 Helios.Star wrote: Wow, according to most people in this blog incontrol can do no wrong. Did you guys see that clip of him walking on water while he healed a blind man? Unbelievable stuff.
Very poor attempt at mocking religion. Sadly though, now that iNcontroL gave up his ban power, who will mod the religion threads in the future... iNcontroL is the manliest man that the starcraft community has ever known. Long Live NASL!
On February 28 2011 11:53 Demonace34 wrote: First off, InControl's personality is why 2-3k people watch his stream even at 3 or 4 in the morning central time.
NASL is going to be MUCH MUCH bigger than that, which is all the more reason to tidy up a bit. There wouldn't be $400,000 on the table if NASL sponsors expected 2-3k people to tune in. NASL needs to appeal to a VERY wide audience in order to be profitable, and in order to break international boundaries, "I"s will need to be dotted, and "T"s will need to be crossed.
On February 28 2011 11:53 Demonace34 wrote: If he didn't have this personality he would be more professional with a lot less exposure. Pretty much along the same lines as IdrA, if IdrA didn't get mad and have such an honest asshole type of personality it would make ESports more professional but more boring at the same time.
The difference is.... IdrA is a spokes person for himself and EG only. If EG don't have a problem, all the more power to them. Don't expect those that IdrA labels "bad" to sign up to support EG.
On February 28 2011 11:53 Demonace34 wrote: Hope NASL works out for the sake of the SC2 community and I know you will do just fine with the amount of passion and time you put into this game. <3
Agreed! <3
Also, to those who bring up Dana White, the difference is... Dana White has a plethora of sponsors throwing money at him to have their product on TV. eSports is NO WHERE near that level. Also, I don't know how often Dana White has done something as childish as mocked an Asian accent. I'm also unaware of the popularity of UFC in Asian countries... I'm not convinced it would rival SC2 in, say, South Korea, for example.
Yeah, only poor people can appreciate his unappropriate jokes properly. Silly remark of the day (I'll stay polite, I'm luxury).
So you interpreted "luxury" as a money based comment?
My point is everyone is spoilt these days and expect perfection out of everything/everyone because they think they deserve it(if that wasn't evident in my youtube link, i'm sorry that your brain couldn't put one and one together) and when something happens everyone has a say on said persons personality like any of this is going to effect anything.
If you ever found iNcontroll offensive that sort of plays in to exactly what i was implying, you are thin skinned as he often takes light hearted jabs at people he knows and loves, at least that is my understanding.
Do you think it's fair that Artosis has been bad mouthing sanzenith for like 4 seaons in the GSL? No, no one talks or cares about this because people just enjoy getting their chance to jump on the hate train.
Sorry, was not interested in your youtube link, didn't bother checking it before. Did now, doesn't really address the issue imo.
If the guy in your video is sitting in his plane and the captain makes a joke/fake announcement about an engine being on fire, thick skinned or not, not sure every passenger will keep on enjoying that "miracle of flying".
Nobody ever asked anybody to be perfect, nor do I have any idea about what you mean with perfection anyway (you define it, thanks).
And again, I like his style of corrosive/agressive humor but with that kind of humor I think you learn you gotta bite your tongue now and then when among strangers because not everyone enjoys or understands or accepts it. Because it's ok with you doesn't mean it's ok with everyone.
He's gonna reach to a much bigger crowd soon, if he wants to address to as many people as possible and not lose people (and money) on the way because of one or two bad jokes, I think tidying his attitude is the smart way to proceed.
On February 28 2011 07:18 Jibba wrote: I wasn't around for what happened but I wish I was. This professionalism thing is being taken too far, and I hope it doesn't start sterilizing everything. Of course the things you said were mean, but so was BiggerT, trolling on BGH and Klazart impressions, and they're all hilarious.
The claim is that "unprofessionalism" will hurt your chances at success, but I haven't seen it negatively impact Dana White and loads of other people promoting niche entertainment.
To be honest, I care more about Mani's points than anything else here.
Perfectly summed up my view on this. G'luck with everything Geoff!
ITT: If he made fun of SuperDanielMan it would be funny but because it was Kelly the white knights of the internet rushed to her defense.
I mean how many other people has he made fun of accents in his usual light-hearted humour and it's been ok?
[QUOTE]On February 28 2011 20:29 Lucian wrote: [QUOTE]On February 28 2011 08:09 SiZ.FaNtAsY wrote: [QUOTE]On February 28 2011 07:18 Jibba wrote:
I mean how many other people has he made fun of accents in his usual light-hearted humour and it's been ok?[/QUOTE]
How many other times was iNcontrol on the eve of becoming the face of a $400,000 p/year tourney, spanning all over the world, trying to promote eSports globally?
On February 28 2011 07:18 Jibba wrote: I wasn't around for what happened but I wish I was. This professionalism thing is being taken too far, and I hope it doesn't start sterilizing everything. Of course the things you said were mean, but so was BiggerT, trolling on BGH and Klazart impressions, and they're all hilarious.
The claim is that "unprofessionalism" will hurt your chances at success, but I haven't seen it negatively impact Dana White and loads of other people promoting niche entertainment.
To be honest, I care more about Mani's points than anything else here.
Perfectly summed up my view on this. G'luck with everything Geoff!
ITT: If he made fun of SuperDanielMan it would be funny but because it was Kelly the white knights of the internet rushed to her defense.
I mean how many other people has he made fun of accents in his usual light-hearted humour and it's been ok?
I think the kelly thing was only a big deal because kelly was already copping so much shit from the community, it wasn't appropriate to tease her since she had enough to deal with at the time. I'm sure incontrol didn't mean any harm by it and he stopped when she asked him to.
Everyone was already looking for more reasons to hate incontrol at the time, even though the re-streaming incident was poor judgement, it was blown way out of proportion.
You might not always be right and you might not always be funny but atleast you're honest and if that bothers all the tightup people let it, they dont have much else in their lives than to complain about other peoples behaviour anyways.
Be who you are and who you feel you should be, there's always gonna be haters and it's refreshing to atleast have one person whop says and does whatever comes to his mind
On February 27 2011 12:36 iNcontroL wrote: I've responded to every PM I've received about that. mani brought it up in this thread for reasons beyond me.. they aren't connected at all and it's out of place here.
I just thought it was related, since this thread seems to be your chance to clear the air on a lot of stuff, especially when you posted this:
"My profession and the community that is exposed to my profession demand a more serious approach. I do not look at this as a sacrifice but a necessary change. If I was just some player trying to commentate some games I would think my persona fine for that role. But I am not. I am the commentator for a league that is seeking to expand eSports in the west. I am a "face" for a brand that means a different future. "
And I was wondering how that new face relates to some of the other brands you have promoted. Maybe now is the time to address it as it might be more damaging later on when you have a higher profile. That was my motivation.
Alright that makes sense I appreciate that.
I have responded each PM I have received but I guess I can mention it here as well:
We originally said we will update the guide with videos and maintain it and that was eveyone's intention. The owner/guy that runs everything had his first child and since then became too busy to maintain the site. he tried to delineate work to others to keep it a float but without the main dude driving everything it kinda slowed to a halt. There were SOME updates but nowhere near what we had talked about.
Since then he has been really busy and obviously so have I/machine. The guide is still 13 hours + of content for a 1 time purchase but it isn't as great as we wanted it to be with the "living document" idea.
Here's the way i see it iNcontroll, if this community was pure Australia(inb4hatefromtrolls) i think people wouldn't give a shit, what you and the production team are doing, is fucking amazing man. Esports needs to be pushed everywhere and in any way possible. I wish we had someone like you in Aus pushing it for us cause over here it fucking sucks. This whole 'drama' is actualy hilarious to me and my friends who are reading this and i know we all agree you shouldn't care so much what the intertrolls say due to you laying down a handfull of jokes around in what like two sentences.
What i think this whole "situation" is like for anyone without a brain --link--
I dont understand this whole expectation of you to act like a robot who is perfect in every single way, i think you need to listen to tasteless' mild rants during GSL when he talks from the perspective of cave-nerds in their basement troll-hut when the slightest hiccup occurs during some cast/production or situation that is so far beyond them that the only satisfaction they will get from wasting 6 seconds of their time is making you upset.
Stay awesome dude and stay above the trolls, its what makes you so entertaining.
Just wanted to thank you for letting me see that again. Fucking love Louis CK.
On February 26 2011 08:38 Archontas wrote: mocking other casters was stupid, but we all do stupid things.
I disagree. The thing I love most about sotg is that I don't have to listen to some filtered PC circle jerk for the most part. They say what's on their mind and it is highly entertaining AND true. If a caster sucks, I want to hear them get ripped on sotg for it. "Well then you'll have to go to Husky" (during the TB mocking). Incredibly funny, incredibly true, and it had to be said. If you have a problem with that, sotg is obviously not the show for you.
I don't post often on these forums, although I am a regular visitor - mostly because I limit myself to posting only when I'm sure I'm bringing something new to the discussion (which, with the huge number of amazing people here, isn't frequent) - so you could say I'm one of the "lurkers" you "offended" last time (I'm totally not offended btw).
In any case, I listen to SotG regularly and I really hope you weather the storm and keep being the awesome baller you are. The reason SotG is so entertaining is the fact that you (and the others) don't mince words, say it how it is and even turn it into comedy from time to time. It's great to be able to see the developments in the SC2/ESPORTS world through the eyes of someone as close to it as you, Tyler, JP, etc. and it actually feels legit because you speak your mind, not because you try to please everyone and become stale and boring in the process.
So please take a page out of Tastosis' book and don't pay too much attention to the internet whiners. Looking forward to the next SotG
I don't know how to respond to this. I don't know if the 'old' day9 who posted on the forums about progaming and progammer strats and talked about bear semen for 2 minutes was better or this new more proper day9, just as I don't know if the 'old' incontrol who would make fun of people and then say stop taking it so seriously was better or this new one under the scrutiny of the public eye. But either way, good luck to you.
On March 01 2011 03:27 Count9 wrote: I don't know how to respond to this. I don't know if the 'old' day9 who posted on the forums about progaming and progammer strats and talked about bear semen for 2 minutes was better or this new more proper day9, just as I don't know if the 'old' incontrol who would make fun of people and then say stop taking it so seriously was better or this new one under the scrutiny of the public eye. But either way, good luck to you.
Day9 didn't lose his funny when he got proper, he just lost a lot of the language from it because he needed to be a legit "teach people to be better gamers" person. That doesn't mean Chill vs CombatEX wasn't one of the most awesome casts ever, though.
I don't know if it'll be the same for incontrol, though. Yes, he's a progamer and he knows his shit, and he'll probably end up doing okay as a caster, but him ripping on people/things has been the highlight of many a state of the game. If he has to stop doing stuff like that he'll need a way to be more interesting than some other random high-level player doing casting.
The Jim Rome Show is the #21 most listened to talk radio show in the US.
He rubs people the wrong way, openly discusses the things he hates, and has even taunted sports personalities to the point that they have tried to fight him on camera.
E-Sports is fuelled by passion - if you take that away, we have nothing.
On March 01 2011 06:38 Manifesto7 wrote: Yeah except Jim Rome is an unfunny jerkoff.
Inc, don't ever be like Jim Rome.
True, but what I'm trying to highlight is that personality is as important as professionalism.
Jim Rome may be an enormous douchebag, but he's successful because he is opinionated and energetic.
I honestly think that iNcontroL is a far more interesting, positive, and funny host than Jim Rome is - and if HE can get #21 for all US Radio Shows, iNcontroL could definitely enjoy mainstream success if ESports was to really take off.
Everyone makes mistakes in their career. I'm not going to say that personal development is a bad thing, but remaking yourself because of a couple of miscalibrated jokes isn't really needed.
Keep doing what you're doing iNc. I was personally stoked to hear that you were the face of the NASL, I can't wait for it to start.
You don't need to apologize for showing your personality to people people who are extremely trying to express their true opinions and are afraid to show their true self are the once that need to be criticized -maybe a slight change is needed if you become something more than just a sc2 player/caster but don't from joking guy who like to poke fun at people into some kind of boring business man who is hiding his thoughts. Good luck.
iNcontrol you're an awesome dude you're funny and just like to have a good time be it hair wipping or just some SC2, I as a player and constant viewer hope you nothing but success and think that it'll come easy to you don't become to quiet that we never hear from you because you truly are an awesome guy!
was anybody that mad about him poking fun at kelly i never noticed
Also don`t change. We`re not a bunch of old farts going into business we` re gamers. You represent the community as a whole and the truth is you were already doing a pretty damn good job of it
On February 28 2011 20:42 BrahCJ wrote: How many other times was iNcontrol on the eve of becoming the face of a $400,000 p/year tourney, spanning all over the world, trying to promote eSports globally?
I don't believe a sterilized image promotes it better than an edgy, interesting one. Every mainstream sport would die for a well spoken, opinionated, slightly offensive presence like iNcontroL. Beyond that, SC2 is not going mainstream. If it gets 20x more popular than it is today, it will still be a niche market. No one is going to promoting family products and breakfast cereals on MLG or NASL, it's all stuff for a crowd that for the most part enjoys what iNc does.
Again, the face of the game does not need to be pristine. We've spent too many years with boring BW players to try and force our entertaining Westerners to do the same. If iNc wants to, then of course he should but he shouldn't change himself just because he thinks sponsors will care (which they probably won't.) If he were doing it on the main stream, that's one thing but I enjoy it when he does it on his own time (such as during SotG.)
For one thing, nobody should be feeling sorry for incontrol, because 1) you gotta be able to take it if you're gonna dish it out 2) he's figured out better than anyone how to monetize playing this game, and deserves full credit for that. His team has all the great esports sponsors locked up, he's frontlining a very lucrative tournament IN WHICH his team will no doubt do very well (especially considering the format), personal sponsorship from SC2casts (which IS a super awesome site) and maybe others, and $100/hr to hang out with you on skype booked solid for months...well done indeed, I respect that. He's cultivated a solid enterprise from a genuine love for the game as far as I can tell, nothing bad about that at all.
So the cynical reaction would be, and I'm sure this has been well covered by more cynical people than myself, that this is all smoothly calculated or contrived or maybe even pressured upon him by "upper management". I don't think it's sarcastic, I believe everything written is genuine because regardless of why he came to this line of reasoning, it makes sense that he would embrace it, the public change of heart is only going to help both the tournament and himself (those two things being very codependent in their, hehe, ascension).
But it doesn't even really matter if he believes what he's writing, it only matters what he does as the linchpin for this huge new league which we all want to see thrive, so whether he's acting the part or playing from the heart is not really worth questioning. And never fear he's not going to become a humorless robot because that would be a downward curve in behavior just as fatal to the league as the upward curve he was on with colossal (get it?) errors in judgement such as restreaming GSL and stirring the roost of e-trolls against Kelly (yes, when you act like a huge troll then the lesser wannabe trolls will rally from your example, and guess what the results are 100% negative).
So as much as he likes to giggle at Day9 for going legit when airplane stories abound on the interwebs, he's got the same fine line to walk now that he's really going for the bigtime. But nobody should care why he's doing NASL or with what intent as long as he does it right, and I think part of that will be to realize that despite being superman, he can't actually fit all roles. A jack of all trades is a master of none.
On February 26 2011 05:48 vrok wrote: I just think that sometimes the joking is a bit too personal and disrespectful-sounding, more like bullying. While as a normal person among friends that can no doubt be absolutely hilarious, it's not too becoming when it comes from a professional player and caster regarding other players and casters.
Artosis is (or used to be) pretty similar I feel, but he has toned it down some and to me done it just the right amount as well. I feel if you just tone down some of the more extreme stuff that we all know (and usually like) you're just saying to get people riled up, it would be ok. I recognize the situation because I'm exactly like that myself and have to make an effort among strangers I don't wish to offend too much, to restrain myself and my candid humor to a somewhat more appropriate level. You don't have to go all the way and become a children's program host though like Day9.
I've never been much of a fan before but I will wish you good luck in your career and personal development so hopefully I and many others can become fans some day.
This is exactly how I feel. Someone talked about the bandwagon being Incontrol-haters ... not really ... the bandwagon has always been Incontrol-supporters (for the most part TL staff back up their own and most of TLers look up to/border hero worship Incontrol). The fact is Incontrol really comes off as a bully a lot of times. There are so many SC2 characters out there that contribute to SC2 in interesting ways without having to be asses (DJ Wheat and Day9 are the most obvious).
On March 01 2011 14:55 buickskylark wrote: anyone wanna give a brief summary of what happened? I have no idea what's going on.
Hey man, it's great to see that there's been some reflection going on, internally. Self-improvement and self-awareness is a big part of achieving any goal, and I think that more players in your position should probably think about the same kind of personal changes when in the public eye. Kudos on that.
With that said, I do think that the biggest hinderance of esports is the seeming 'know-it-all' or condescending attitude of most high level players and prominent members of the community. There is an air of elitism surrounding Starcraft 2's pro scene, and it will absolutely hurt accessibility. It's not easy learning about the esports world as a casual player, and certainly not for even an aspiring one. For instance, someone popping into your stream and hearing you (jokingly) berate people's questions or statements in the chat can be really intimidating for new viewers and players. We all know its sarcastic and fun, but newcomers might not. Even someone tuning into "State of the Game" for the first time may find it nearly unlistenable due to the seeming cold or callused demeanor of the cast.
I think the reason people gravitate towards someone like Day9, is the calm, welcoming, attitude he conveys. Even people like Husky (who admittedly is no expert whatsoever) make it seem like a much more welcoming community, and he's proven to be the gateway drug for people even mildly curious about pro casts. I'd like to see the NASL be a complete juggernaut in the west, and I'm really glad you're taking it completely seriously, and examining even the facets of your attitude to make sure not to intimidate newcomers to SC2 because that's the ONLY way this is going to grow. It's settled, iNcontroL is his own PR rep
hey man, i thought the showmatch cast was hilarious, and it's always been fun to read and respond to your posts on the forums. hope you keep posting frequently, GL with NASL. keep on keepin on, mang
Still a huge fan - switched races after watching you coach Protoss. You seemed to have two personalities before, the community/player vs the coach. I listened as a kid trolled you relentlessly during a coaching session (big brother of the student) yet you kept your cool and completed the lesson without incident. Unfortunately your new line of work will force you to put that coach persona on most of the time going forward.
You are a celebrity in the SC2 community now. That means all your actions will be disected under a microscope. Sure, some of the kiddies just plain hate you due to jealousy. On the other hand, people had legitimate beef with some of your actions.
I got bummed when seeing this tweet "Recharging with some X-Files and gf time. When I get back expect changes. People want serious/pro they will get that." The first thing I thought of was an incontrol who robotically responds to all inquiries and doesn't do SOTG, streaming, or any of that other fun stuff. Please don't pull a complete 180, just tone it down a little and realize how important you are to esports and this commmunity.
Good luck and lets kick this western esports shit into high gear!
Just wanted to let you know, InControl, that I appreciate a person who speaks his mind. I hate official persons who are afraid of being politically incorrect. My faith in your will grow whenever you get into a "scandal".
EDIT: Now, I'm not sure that being a real person will actually benefit e-sports, but it will make NASL more to my liking.
EPT
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Good to hear from u Geoff, we believe in u! We believe in ESPORTS! NASL will be great!
It's sad to see people getting outraged over your sense of humour. You might need to clarify (possibly over and over again – this is the internet, after all) that your jokes on SotG and your stream are not to be taken too seriously. I've always seen what you do as similar to a comedy roast or the stuff Ricky Gervais does at the Golden Globes etc. There is a possibility that the jokes might be misconstrued as mean-spirited or even hurtful, but I don't see that as a valid reason to abandon them. You can't please everyone ... if you go for a more serious approach, there will be whining about how things used to be better when you were "still funny", just as there is whining when you go for the joke.
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