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Song(s) of the Blog
+ Show Spoiler +L-L-L-L-Lucifer Ellie Goulding mmmmm delicious. (Was that creepy? Good.) PP SO UNDERRATED!
EDIT: I'm not saying that you shouldn't place any blame on the kids. Just that parents need to be accountable as well. Because with just a few precautions they can definitely do a large part to prevent these sorts of things.
Whether it be the VT massacre, Columbine, or a more recent shooting, students will always pose a real threat to their fellow students. Even just this month a kid walked into school and tossed his backpack on his desk, only to have a gun go off inside his backpack. Avoiding this situation really isn't the schools problem.
As soon as one of these tragedies occurs there is always a loud section of the public that insists on blaming the school for not having enough guards, pat-downs, metal detectors, inspections or whatever the popular reason is nowadays to make the school a scapegoat for a parents neglect.
In most of the school shootings that you hear of on the news you will hear about how the child had a long history of social ineptness and unhappiness. But what you don't hear about is the parental neglect. Because if the child is socially inept, depressed and has very scary/odd behavior you don't just fucking send them off to school no problem everyday. They clearly need help and you as a parent need to protect them from themselves and also protect society from your child.
If you sit back and do nothing and your kid shoots up a school, then your ass should be on the hook for it. If you send the kid to counselling and do all of the appropriate things to help your child and this still happens then you as a parent did your job and it's nothing more than a tragedy. It really is as simple as before your kid goes to school you just say, "Mind if I take a look in your backpack son?". BAM you just saved 30 lives, how easy was that? No matter what the excuse is, neglecting your kid(s) is a choice and that's that.
To create a simple visualization, just imagine you let your dog out to go to the bathroom and you go off and take a nap. Meanwhile he scurries across the street and bites your neighbors kid. What happens? Do they go after the dog? No. They sue your ass and put the dog down.
The same should go for your children, if you can't keep your kids under control or on a leash if you will, then don't have the kids or the courts will come after your ass for manslaughter and also simply endangering the community around you with your immaturity and neglect.
The biggest issue with this neglect is that it's especially common with parents that work 2 jobs without a degree and have 5 kids. To which I respond, WHY THE FUCK DO YOU HAVE FIVE KIDS? If you can't raise a number of kids properly, DONT HAVE THE KIDS. It's really that damn simple.
Neglect as a parent is a choice, no matter how many kids you have it's really just your fault. If you don't have the time or money for X number of kid(s), then don't have kids. If you sit back and let your kids run rampant and it causes a tragedy, you need to be on trial for manslaughter.
Let me know your opinion or if you have any relevant experiences! Sorry if I offended you it's just my personal opinion.
 
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yeah i agree, blame the parents. too much terrible parenting nowadays, at least one needs to be off work and constantly supporting the kid in my humble opinion. traditionally it was the woman, but if the woman really wants to work, the man needs to bite the bullet and raise the kids (of course not counting gay parents)
that's what i'm planning to do if/when i have kids at least. as a child raised in a two-working-parent household (where i wasnt really consistently supported for anything, they let me quit piano, they didnt see my swimming lessons through, they didnt even teach me to ride the bicycle), i can clearly see it had an impact on my social skills, work ethic, and understanding of the world in retrospect.
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It's valid to blame the parents only if they have the power to raise their kids in the manner that they decide. The problem is that the govt and the politically correct intercede with their own ideas of "correct parenting". Attaching blame on the parents like what the OP suggests is to give them responsibility but no power.
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that's retarded. People need to be responsible for their own actions.
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On January 21 2011 18:40 THE_DOMINATOR wrote:
that's retarded. People need to be responsible for their own actions.
you've obviously never dealt with the hair-tearing illogicalness of a preteen child. raising a child to be well-balanced is on the parents; if they fail, they should be aware of it and seek help to guide the children. children do not suddenly become responsible for their actions because they reach a certain age (though the law seems to best approximate such an age at 18, an age that happens to be above the age of most school shooters)
+ Show Spoiler +i dont really believe in free will, but if free will were to exist, certainly it would be something that slowly sets in throughout childhood, guided by parenting, rather than something endowed in all its glory at age 0
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On January 21 2011 18:44 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
i dont really believe in free will, but if free will were to exist, certainly it would be something that slowly sets in throughout childhood, guided by parenting, rather than something endowed in all its glory at age 0
thats a big point, a child transitions into a phase of violence and hatred. children dont go to sleep happy and perfectly functional and wake up a maniac. parents that dont neglect their kids will see the change in their kids behavior and seek help.
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I dunno, i was under the impression that it is mostly due to being bullied by fellow students that theese students snap. If you treat someone like crap day after day after day sooner or later they will snap, the only question is if they can make it through school before they snap or not. If they can, they usually get away from the bullies and might recover.
Remember back in school, me and my friends where nerdy but not victims of the bullies, not on any regular basis at least. One day we saw one of the bullies knock his favorite victim down and one of my friends turned to me and said something along the lines of "If they ever tries to treat me like that i will get a gun and to hell with the consequences" (he did not mean getting knocked down, he meant the daily abuse never letting up), the rest of us mostly agreed but i am not sure who among us would have had the balls to actually do it. But i think we all would have wanted to. Parents would not really have mattered i dont think, unless they would have stepped in and kicked the crap out the bullies.
I think the "blame" here lies with the school/society. What i always ask myself is what was done regarding the bullies, school and society need to step in and show that it is unacceptable behaviour. Ban from school for a week or two, split up friends into different classes and if that does not work make them switch schools. When i read an article about someone being bullied for two years by three classmates i wonder why they hell the bullies has been allowed to keep going to that school.
And "solutions" for someone being bullied as often that the victim has to switch school, so bloody retarded. Make the asshole bullies change schools, making the victim do it is like having a rape victim serve jail time and let the rapist get a medal. What kind of signal does that sends to the kids?
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On January 21 2011 18:40 THE_DOMINATOR wrote:
that's retarded. People need to be responsible for their own actions.
This, depending on how they were raised and what not, but it's absolutely absurd to blame the parents unless they were abusive or something in a way which mentally affected the child.
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On January 21 2011 18:54 DND_Enkil wrote:
I dunno, i was under the impression that it is mostly due to being bullied by fellow students that theese students snap. If you treat someone like crap day after day after day sooner or later they will snap, the only question is if they can make it through school before they snap or not. If they can, they usually get away from the bullies and might recover.
Remember back in school, me and my friends where nerdy but not victims of the bullies, not on any regular basis at least. One day we saw one of the bullies knock his favorite victim down and one of my friends turned to me and said something along the lines of "If they ever tries to treat me like that i will get a gun and to hell with the consequences" (he did not mean getting knocked down, he meant the daily abuse never letting up), the rest of us mostly agreed but i am not sure who among us would have had the balls to actually do it. But i think we all would have wanted to. Parents would not really have mattered i dont think, unless they would have stepped in and kicked the crap out the bullies.
I think the "blame" here lies with the school/society. What i always ask myself is what was done regarding the bullies, school and society need to step in and show that it is unacceptable behaviour. Ban from school for a week or two, split up friends into different classes and if that does not work make them switch schools. When i read an article about someone being bullied for two years by three classmates i wonder why they hell the bullies has been allowed to keep going to that school.
And "solutions" for someone being bullied as often that the victim has to switch school, so bloody retarded. Make the asshole bullies change schools, making the victim do it is like having a rape victim serve jail time and let the rapist get a medal. What kind of signal does that sends to the kids?
a good point, bullies are a big part of this as well. the schools would definitely be at fault in that regard.
but at the end of the day, the parents should also be there to help the kids deal with the bullying in a healthy way because a parent thats involved with their kids will definitely notice what's going on and help them through it with advice or contacting the school/parents of the bullies to do what they can to end the bullying.
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On January 21 2011 18:56 Phenny wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 18:40 THE_DOMINATOR wrote:
that's retarded. People need to be responsible for their own actions. This, depending on how they were raised and what not, but it's absolutely absurd to blame the parents unless they were abusive or something in a way which mentally affected the child.
part of the job of being a parent is helping your child when they need it, if you pay little to no attention to your kids and things go on unfixed you should definitely be punished for being a bad parent.
you need a license to drive and for lots of things. why not a license to be a parent lol. imo theres just too much awful parenting and too many unemployed parents on welfare with 5-10 kids.
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United States42091 Posts
The parents of the shooter generally lose a child too. They deserve our sympathy too.
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On January 21 2011 19:02 GT wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 18:56 Phenny wrote:On January 21 2011 18:40 THE_DOMINATOR wrote:
that's retarded. People need to be responsible for their own actions. This, depending on how they were raised and what not, but it's absolutely absurd to blame the parents unless they were abusive or something in a way which mentally affected the child. part of the job of being a parent is helping your child when they need it, if you pay little to no attention to your kids and things go on unfixed you should definitely be punished for being a bad parent. you need a license to drive and for lots of things. why not a license to be a parent lol. imo theres just too much awful parenting and too many unemployed parents on welfare with 5-10 kids.
I agree with the first, while in most cases yes it holds true, not always do they display any behaviour that reasonably indicates they need help (I admit this population is minimal, but existent).
Hmm, I'm too pro freedom to agree with the parent license thing, however the amount of bogan filth I see it kind of makes me wonder if it's a reasonable idea. I mean I feel really bad to see kids growing up with parents with no clue about anything at all.
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On January 21 2011 18:14 GT wrote:
EDIT: I'm not saying that you shouldn't place any blame on the kids. Just that parents need to be accountable as well.
Completely agree with this (in ~95%+ of situations).
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In general I disagree with the OP. At some point a child has to be able to take responsibility for some his own actions, even at a relatively young age. The school shootings that were mentioned show more a similarity to suicide than anything else. And people usually don't blame the parents for that.
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Sure we can blame everything on the parents but that's actually very shortsighted.
No parent will know exactly what their kid does or feels because the kid doesn't want them to know. That's just normal. Everybody is responsible for their own actions.
The real problem here is that it's very easy for American kids to obtain a firearm. Period.
If in other countries it would be as easy to obtain a firearm as in America you would see a lot more school shootings in those countries as well. I think in Norway or Finland school shootings also happen from time to time?
Highschool is a very turbulent time in the life of a kid with a lot of emotions raging through them. This can always lead to excesses (especially under the less popular kids) but in most countries they are being kept in check as there are no realistic means to "get back to the wrongdoers".
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id agree that a license to parent seems a little extreme, and its certainly not my first choice as a solution to the problem. but it still does seem pretty logical.
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The biggest issue with this neglect is that it's especially common with parents that work 2 jobs without a degree and have 5 kids. To which I respond, WHY THE FUCK DO YOU HAVE FIVE KIDS? If you can't raise a number of kids properly, DONT HAVE THE KIDS. It's really that damn simple.
Neglect as a parent is a choice, no matter how many kids you have it's really just your fault. If you don't have the time or money for X number of kid(s), then don't have kids. If you sit back and let your kids run rampant and it causes a tragedy, you need to be on trial for manslaughter.
Yes part of the blame could be the parents; but the above statements are very ignorant of social and class issues. So much so the whole pretence of the post is crippled by it.
Especially since the profile you try to place on the crazy kids isn't the profile of these kids but just a stereotype of ethnic minorities. A profile which rather then causes these kinds of things is actually an environment of lots of kids in a family that prevents this kind of thing.
Being a more pessimistic person i'd say this post has a little truth with a completely illogical underlying racist twinge to the end of it.
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On January 21 2011 19:23 Adeeler wrote:Show nested quote +The biggest issue with this neglect is that it's especially common with parents that work 2 jobs without a degree and have 5 kids. To which I respond, WHY THE FUCK DO YOU HAVE FIVE KIDS? If you can't raise a number of kids properly, DONT HAVE THE KIDS. It's really that damn simple.
Neglect as a parent is a choice, no matter how many kids you have it's really just your fault. If you don't have the time or money for X number of kid(s), then don't have kids. If you sit back and let your kids run rampant and it causes a tragedy, you need to be on trial for manslaughter.
Yes part of the blame could be the parents; but the above statements are very ignorant of social and class issues. So much so the whole pretence of the post is crippled by it.
The statements are ignorant because some people aren't responsible enough to use birth control? I don't really see it.
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On January 21 2011 19:23 Adeeler wrote:Show nested quote +The biggest issue with this neglect is that it's especially common with parents that work 2 jobs without a degree and have 5 kids. To which I respond, WHY THE FUCK DO YOU HAVE FIVE KIDS? If you can't raise a number of kids properly, DONT HAVE THE KIDS. It's really that damn simple.
Neglect as a parent is a choice, no matter how many kids you have it's really just your fault. If you don't have the time or money for X number of kid(s), then don't have kids. If you sit back and let your kids run rampant and it causes a tragedy, you need to be on trial for manslaughter.
Yes part of the blame could be the parents; but the above statements are very ignorant of social and class issues. So much so the whole pretence of the post is crippled by it.
If you cannot support the kids, having them is the first step on a long road to terrible parenting.
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The real problem is that X kid will get access to a GUN. so its not the parents fault only but also the availability of guns in most countries.
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Can you please give an example of a school shooting because they had shitty parents?
Just blaming the parents is very very shortsighted.
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Honestly, I think it's difficult to argue that the chief amount of blame can be placed on anyone but the shooters.
Tons of kids get bullied but they don't go out and shoot people over it.
Tons of kids have shitty parents / maybe even abusive parents but they don't go out and shoot people over it.
This is like the video games makes people violent argument, there are so many people that go through exactly the same things these shooters go through and yet they don't go out and shoot people over it.
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On January 21 2011 18:22 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
yeah i agree, blame the parents. too much terrible parenting nowadays, at least one needs to be off work and constantly supporting the kid in my humble opinion. traditionally it was the woman, but if the woman really wants to work, the man needs to bite the bullet and raise the kids (of course not counting gay parents)
that's what i'm planning to do if/when i have kids at least. as a child raised in a two-working-parent household (where i wasnt really consistently supported for anything, they let me quit piano, they didnt see my swimming lessons through, they didnt even teach me to ride the bicycle), i can clearly see it had an impact on my social skills, work ethic, and understanding of the world in retrospect.
Or you can have their grandparents look after them. My grandma looked after me, and I love her very much to this day. Those were probably the best times of my life.
And yes, you should definitely blame the parents, but for the VT massacre, which was very personal to me because my dad was in the building right next to the shooting, you cannot blame the parents. They did give him counseling and support, but idk, the kid was messed up, and the kids that made fun of him didn't help.
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On January 21 2011 18:54 DND_Enkil wrote:
I dunno, i was under the impression that it is mostly due to being bullied by fellow students that theese students snap. If you treat someone like crap day after day after day sooner or later they will snap, the only question is if they can make it through school before they snap or not. If they can, they usually get away from the bullies and might recover.
Remember back in school, me and my friends where nerdy but not victims of the bullies, not on any regular basis at least. One day we saw one of the bullies knock his favorite victim down and one of my friends turned to me and said something along the lines of "If they ever tries to treat me like that i will get a gun and to hell with the consequences" (he did not mean getting knocked down, he meant the daily abuse never letting up), the rest of us mostly agreed but i am not sure who among us would have had the balls to actually do it. But i think we all would have wanted to. Parents would not really have mattered i dont think, unless they would have stepped in and kicked the crap out the bullies.
You know why it didnt happen to you guys? Because you had those exact feelings of "I will not let this happen" Most people don't appreciate being walked on and will stand up for themselves in some measure. Other people just get walked all over.
You don't have to win the fight that will undoubtedly ensure when you stand up for yourself. You just have to make it a phyrric victory for the bully. They learn right quick there are easier prey.
For those kids that snap, it's still a parenting failure in the sense that they never taught their kids to stand up for themselves. What kind of parent doesn't do that?
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Of course the parents are partly to blame in nearly all cases. But more blame should be laid on the schools that failed to shut down on the bullying (it had to be extremely severe to cause such a response) and the kids themselves, they're old enough to know right from wrong and to have a semblance of free will.
ps. Did a student really go to school with a gun in his bag? That sounds ridiculous he could so easily get a gun and just walk to school with it. I mean I can't even begin to imagine where I'm gonna get a gun from let alone just walk unnoticed into my school
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On January 21 2011 20:37 hoppipolla wrote:
Of course the parents are partly to blame in nearly all cases. But more blame should be laid on the schools that failed to shut down on the bullying (it had to be extremely severe to cause such a response) and the kids themselves, they're old enough to know right from wrong and to have a semblance of free will.
ps. Did a student really go to school with a gun in his bag? That sounds ridiculous he could so easily get a gun and just walk to school with it. I mean I can't even begin to imagine where I'm gonna get a gun from let alone just walk unnoticed into my school
Wrong! Once again lets take away personal responsibility and blame a societal construct that has only one purpose! A school is there to educate children not to shelter them. There will ALWAYS be bullying, it's part of human nature. Unless one is mentally handicapped they must be held responsible for their actions accordingly. Making exceptions to this rule will only foster a tolerance for negligent and irresponsible behavior.
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On January 21 2011 20:00 AzTec wrote:
Honestly, I think it's difficult to argue that the chief amount of blame can be placed on anyone but the shooters.
Tons of kids get bullied but they don't go out and shoot people over it.
Tons of kids have shitty parents / maybe even abusive parents but they don't go out and shoot people over it.
This is like the video games makes people violent argument, there are so many people that go through exactly the same things these shooters go through and yet they don't go out and shoot people over it.
I agree with this guy.
I pretty much hated High School my whole time going through. I didn't want to shoot up my school though. I just graduated like everyone else and went on with my life. Expressing your anger with violence is nowhere near normal.
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On January 21 2011 20:00 AzTec wrote:
Honestly, I think it's difficult to argue that the chief amount of blame can be placed on anyone but the shooters.
Tons of kids get bullied but they don't go out and shoot people over it.
Tons of kids have shitty parents / maybe even abusive parents but they don't go out and shoot people over it.
This is like the video games makes people violent argument, there are so many people that go through exactly the same things these shooters go through and yet they don't go out and shoot people over it.
tons of kids have similar situations, and history shows that a very small percentage will actually shoot people. that doesn't mean the situations aren't a big part to blame, that just means the chances of it turning into a shooting is very small. sure the parents are unlucky, but that doesn't mean they're absolutely absolved of blame. these cases should serve as a warning to parents in general to seek help for their kids or provide them a more nurturing environment if their environment is clearly wearing down on them. just because most of the kids don't end up shooting people doesn't mean they all turn out 'alright' either
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actually in retrospect i'd best agree to blame nobody because nobody deserves blame for anything
lets love, not hate
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I actually agree with this to a large degree. If a minor under your care commits crimes you are responsible unless you took provable steps trying to prevent it. If your child breaks a window, who pays for the repair?
Excluded or judged differently should be foster parents of known problem children, if you include these you will have no foster parents for these children.
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On January 21 2011 21:01 Silentness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 20:00 AzTec wrote:
Honestly, I think it's difficult to argue that the chief amount of blame can be placed on anyone but the shooters.
Tons of kids get bullied but they don't go out and shoot people over it.
Tons of kids have shitty parents / maybe even abusive parents but they don't go out and shoot people over it.
This is like the video games makes people violent argument, there are so many people that go through exactly the same things these shooters go through and yet they don't go out and shoot people over it. I agree with this guy. I pretty much hated High School my whole time going through. I didn't want to shoot up my school though. I just graduated like everyone else and went on with my life. Expressing your anger with violence is nowhere near normal.
Every situation when it comes to school violence really comes down to the individual case. Look at the boys from Columbine. They showed a lot of early signs that should've triggered some kind of reactions from their parents (stealing from neighbors, hiding fucking weapons in their homes, threatening another student's life). Some of these early actions you could argue are shared by many troubled teenagers. But the Columbine boys had nobody for support. They had nearly no friends. They had uninvolved parents. Nobody ever made an effort to help them, and so they were consumed by the hatred and darkness in their minds.
No, expressing anger through shooting people up isn't normal. But these weren't normal situations. Human beings are social creatures, and when you tear out social interactions from someone's life I'd say they cease to follow the same rules and thinking normal people do. Just think about how crazy shit has to get for them to shoot someone. Even after watching countless action movies and games and shit, could you possibly imagine yourself actually killing a person in front of you? Fuck no. That's on a whole 'nother level we just can't imagine.
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And people just as loud shout that it must be the parents fault. I don't think either gives a very accurate idea of what really happened. I'd rather ask police investigators than get my opinions from sensationalist news and soccer moms.
Parents should this, parents should that... You know what, teenagers are very good at hiding things from their parents. All parents feel like their kid is just going thru a phase, and they talk to other parents and they don't understand their teenagers either. The issue is way more complex than this.
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On January 21 2011 23:04 Yurie wrote:
I actually agree with this to a large degree. If a minor under your care commits crimes you are responsible unless you took provable steps trying to prevent it. If your child breaks a window, who pays for the repair?
Excluded or judged differently should be foster parents of known problem children, if you include these you will have no foster parents for these children.
I read some pretty dumb stuff in this thread, but this takes the cake. I broke a window once, guess who paid for it? I did, my dad made me get a job and slowly work off the money needed that he had to use to pay for it. So no, in essence all he did was give me a loan and made me suffer the consequences. You can't blame parents for fucked up kids, you can only blame kids. I was a lot like the school shooters, but instead of letting it go far enough that I felt I needed to bring a gun, I just snapped one day like in the Christmas Story knocked him down and then just started wailing on him. After that people left me alone, but why was i too blame? I told the school about it and all they did was brush it off. In my mind the parents can't be around kids 24/7. They can't constantly sit over the kids shoulder whispering things the kids conscious should be whispering. So really it is more the school and society's fault, not parents.
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If we blame the parents for everything that's fucked up in this world, why are most people still allowed to make kids?
In case of school shootings I'd blame the kids who close these kids out or bully them and even that wouldn't make sense. Glad I'm not blaming anyone, people are fucked up & we just gotta deal with it.
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As with most things, school shootings are far too complex to blame on parenting alone. Eric Harris of the Columbine shootings was on medication and had a psychiatrist. If nothing else, his parents were at the very least attentive enough to notice that he needed one.
I think a lot of people are looking at it the wrong way. Anyone who guns down a group of their peers is almost by definition "crazy". It's not as simple as "they were being bullied and couldn't take it anymore." Lots of people are bullied. Lots of people have shitty parents or go through shitty stuff yet school shootings are actually a relatively rare occurence when you take these things into consideration. There's often something more innate, some mental issue that was overlooked perhaps. At the very least, it's not as black and white as some people make it seem.
Also worth noting, a profile of school shooters from wikipedia:
While it may be simplistic to assume a straightforward "profile", the study did find certain similarities among the perpetrators. "The researchers found that killers do not 'snap'. They plan. They acquire weapons. These children take a long, considered, public path toward violence."[4] Princeton's Katherine Newman points out that, far from being "loners", the perpetrators are "joiners" whose attempts at social integration fail, that they let their thinking and even their plans be known, sometimes frequently over long periods of times.
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quote instead of edit woops.
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For all the people saying "its easy to get a gun in the U.S. as a child", can you please elaborate? When I was ten, I couldn't even dream of getting access to any firearms whatsoever. Most of these kids probably get them from their parents. This means that the parents don't know how to purchase a gun safe/something else to keep their kids away from the guns. I guess otherwise, maybe if you were involved with a gang or something it would be possible, but please don't act like a kid went to a gun show and bought the damn thing outright.
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On January 21 2011 20:02 Tazza wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 18:22 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
yeah i agree, blame the parents. too much terrible parenting nowadays, at least one needs to be off work and constantly supporting the kid in my humble opinion. traditionally it was the woman, but if the woman really wants to work, the man needs to bite the bullet and raise the kids (of course not counting gay parents)
that's what i'm planning to do if/when i have kids at least. as a child raised in a two-working-parent household (where i wasnt really consistently supported for anything, they let me quit piano, they didnt see my swimming lessons through, they didnt even teach me to ride the bicycle), i can clearly see it had an impact on my social skills, work ethic, and understanding of the world in retrospect. Or you can have their grandparents look after them. My grandma looked after me, and I love her very much to this day. Those were probably the best times of my life. And yes, you should definitely blame the parents, but for the VT massacre, which was very personal to me because my dad was in the building right next to the shooting, you cannot blame the parents. They did give him counseling and support, but idk, the kid was messed up, and the kids that made fun of him didn't help.
if thats the case then i definitely say that you couldn't place any blame on the parents. i'd just like to know that a parent is trying you know?
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On January 22 2011 01:40 Scruffy wrote:
For all the people saying "its easy to get a gun in the U.S. as a child", can you please elaborate? When I was ten, I couldn't even dream of getting access to any firearms whatsoever. Most of these kids probably get them from their parents. This means that the parents don't know how to purchase a gun safe/something else to keep their kids away from the guns. I guess otherwise, maybe if you were involved with a gang or something it would be possible, but please don't act like a kid went to a gun show and bought the damn thing outright.
this also, a kid doesn't walk into walmart and grab a gun. they get them from an unlocked drawer in their parent's room.
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On January 21 2011 20:57 THE_DOMINATOR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 20:37 hoppipolla wrote:
Of course the parents are partly to blame in nearly all cases. But more blame should be laid on the schools that failed to shut down on the bullying (it had to be extremely severe to cause such a response) and the kids themselves, they're old enough to know right from wrong and to have a semblance of free will.
ps. Did a student really go to school with a gun in his bag? That sounds ridiculous he could so easily get a gun and just walk to school with it. I mean I can't even begin to imagine where I'm gonna get a gun from let alone just walk unnoticed into my school Wrong! Once again lets take away personal responsibility and blame a societal construct that has only one purpose! A school is there to educate children not to shelter them. There will ALWAYS be bullying, it's part of human nature. Unless one is mentally handicapped they must be held responsible for their actions accordingly. Making exceptions to this rule will only foster a tolerance for negligent and irresponsible behavior.
Of cource they must be held responsible for thier actions, as should a person that every day pucnhes another person in the stomach for the fun of it. You can not wait with enacting punishment until the crime is severe enough, because sooner or later the victim will take the law into his own hands. And in the case of school shootings the rage is directed to everyone and he will "punish" everyone.
To clarify: School shooters should always be held 100% accountable for thier actions, but if we want to talk prevention we need to look at what caused this.
P.S. At least schools in sweden are legally bound to nurture and protect the kids in school and fight bullying at all times. And social bulliyng will never go away, but there is absolutely nothing that prevents us from eradicating physical repeated bullying.
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Blaming parents is a lot more rational than a lot of the other suggestions out there, but it's only one aspect of several.
On top of that, the problems with the parents are likely several generations old. Most of us here who have the leisure time to troll TL at will on our fast computers and speedy internet connection have come from a comfortable background. I'm sure there are some exceptions, but for the most part, I think we can safely say that TL has a pretty privileged population.
This isn't always so for a lot of poorer families. That couple working several jobs with 5 kids? Yeah, that's probably how they grew up too. They don't know anything different. Maybe they only had one parent, who worked their ass off at some shitty minimum wage job just to feed the family. So they grew up with no real supervision, hanging out in the streets or whatnot with the other kids. No role models or anything. Next thing you know, she's pregnant at 16, and soon needs to take care of her own kid. The cycle repeats itself.
And on the topic of birth control: Again it's very much a class issue. I live in a really affluent part of the country. I can go to any pharmacy, grocery store, even fucking gas stations, and get contraceptives. I can afford to go to a doctor and get a prescription for birth control. It actually costs me next to nothing. It isn't like this everywhere. There are some parts of the country where it's fucking hard to get contraceptives.
So when a rich, upper/middle class kid shoots up a school, sure, you can probably put a chunk of the blame directly on the parents who really don't have much of an excuse for raising a violent little shit of a child. But a lot of the time, the parents are only living in the only world they know.
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I think that if child 18 years - is doing something bad we should blame parents or the older generation.
- Look you are born and your parents work 12 hours every day because they were just having unprotected sex right after fourteens.
- You are just a little kid who cant talk to anyone because they parents are so wasted after the work so they need to have couple of shots and go to sleep.
- The shits get real when your parents get divorce and argue 4 hours straight.
- Then you have to look up to other people but you can see just alcoholics because you are leaving in the worst part of city.
And here we go. You can kill 30 innocents people one day OR you can find StarCraft / TL and became AWESOME.
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I will say 50% parents and 50% the shooter.
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EPT
