Gosucoaching is back

On October 02 2010 03:25 NukeTheBunnys wrote:
you might want to remove louder from the about us section if he is no longer associated with the site. Also, updating the site with this message would probably be a good idea.

Posted July 27, 2010 - 10:00am by Louder

On October 02 2010 03:29 Jibba wrote:
Same list of coaches and rates?

On October 02 2010 03:46 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Ok, I do appreciate what you are doing with gosucoaching and the like Inc but I really do think this is over the top now. As a mod, you should not be the one posting or linking someone to a service that provides you money purely so it doesn't appear in anyway involved with TL (in the case that things flop like last time).

I know that you are a really serious about this and it is a great opportunity for people to learn, but TL staff should not actively be soliciting people for cash.

On October 02 2010 03:51 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Your perspective/opinion is duly noted.

I however would ask that you monitor your opinion with facts.

I am an EG member. I am apart of the State of the Game podcast. I created the Gosuguide. I am also a competitive player. Point is, I am many things. I also coach professionally. I have done that for over a year now. I have posted in regard to gosucoaching and other things for a very long time.

If you want to flame me or flame gosucoaching it will not be ME that warns/bans you as I am involved personally. Again, that is something that is the standard for the rest of the staff as well.

On October 02 2010 03:55 Jibba wrote:

I think it's fine. People may associate it with TL but honestly they should simply associate it with Inc and the contributions he's made to the forum. It's a well made OP in Blogs and again, given his history, I see no problem with him repping his stuff. Day9 is also similarly on staff (although with less banny powers.)

On October 02 2010 03:56 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


I really not trying to be negative dude. But your titles are really moot when you compare your currently a TL staff member. That really shows a level of unprofessionalism when someone with your position is soliciting people. Anyone of the other members of this venture could have posted this thread. You would still be involved but not the one actively advertising it which would clear you of any direct involvement. As it stands now it really comes off badly (at least in my opinion).

On October 02 2010 04:04 Newguy wrote:
Great news for anyone who wants coaching, I guess. I'm happy the tournaments are back! On a side note, Louder is still in the "About Us" section of the website, and possibly other sections as well.

On October 02 2010 04:00 {88}iNcontroL wrote:


Yep as said you find it reprehensible. I pay my rent with coaching. I fund my life as a progamer by coaching. I am also trying to contribute to the greatest community website. Until those two directly conflict and I make the wrong choice I don't think you should write off my "professionalism" or commitment to the community just yet.

Also saying I am "soliciting" people for money is a really poor choice of words. I offer a service and I help fund/run community events that are completely free and in fact offer money to everyone else. I think you might want to consider mitigating your criticism.

On October 02 2010 04:06 krndandaman wrote:
so did Louder sell it or something to the new owner?

also gl and wb~

On October 02 2010 04:06 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


I do get you do alot for this community, I get that you also treat this venture as your means to survive. However, not only are you a respected member of the community, your are part of the teamliquid staff. This means every post you make will
A) get attention based on your recognition
B) get attention based on the fact your part of staff

These two things give you instant attention from pretty well everyone who reads it. It also directly links you to this site. If the venture goes badly it could leads to TL looking badly as well.

Soliciting also isn't a poor choice of words. As i said just above, your name garners instant attention based on my two points. At the end of every post you have in your signature a link to both your guide and your coaching. Now, that may be indirect, but it is still a form of solicitation. Its similar to putting up fliers around town.

Your job as a moderator, and that of a progamer are separate, they should really be treated as such.

On October 02 2010 04:06 {88}iNcontroL wrote:


Yep this was mentioned earlier. It will be corrected.

@Cobbler: Day9 is a blue staff member. You could have looked that up though.

On October 02 2010 04:07 {88}iNcontroL wrote:


Again, your opinion is well made!

I understand you think all the staff members should only be loyal to TL professionally and have no connections to anything else. That isn't the case... so be it!

GL

On October 02 2010 04:12 BloodyC0bbler wrote:



Eh? you keep the two jobs seperate as best as possible. If you work at place A you try not to have anything from it spill over to B regardless of if the two are tied or not.

I get people will have connections to other things, hell we all have personal lives, but mixing two jobs for personal gain (whereas most people in your position would get warned/banned for it) is really inappropriate.

On October 02 2010 04:12 BloodyC0bbler wrote:



Eh? you keep the two jobs seperate as best as possible. If you work at place A you try not to have anything from it spill over to B regardless of if the two are tied or not.

I get people will have connections to other things, hell we all have personal lives, but mixing two jobs for personal gain (whereas most people in your position would get warned/banned for it) is really inappropriate.

On October 02 2010 04:24 Jibba wrote:
Hey everybody! Let's stop with the derailment. Have it in a PM, but don't have it here. If something is to be done, it'll be done. Posting more about it won't raise the issue any more than it already has.

On October 02 2010 04:56 SCC-Faust wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

I kind of disagree.

In the first phase of beta I ran a blog with my gaming experiences and updated replays.
I provided the link in my signature, and it was never really questioned - although it wasn't monetized.

More of a for the community thing. So wait nevermind maybe I agree.

The point is, why can't we all just be friends?

On October 02 2010 04:56 SCC-Faust wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

I kind of disagree.

In the first phase of beta I ran a blog with my gaming experiences and updated replays.
I provided the link in my signature, and it was never really questioned - although it wasn't monetized.

More of a for the community thing. So wait nevermind maybe I agree.

The point is, why can't we all just be friends?

On October 02 2010 05:21 Liquid`HuK wrote:
can i refuse casters in the weekly? i am against it o so much

On October 02 2010 05:22 {88}iNcontroL wrote:


We will talk that over.

@faust: yes we will have new coaches in the future

On October 02 2010 05:21 SpicyCrab wrote:
Bloody; I dont' get it. He can do what he wants. Who cares that he is a mod.

This is his site. The delineation is clear. This is a really silly crusade for you to be on.

Does any body from TL have a problem with it? Are any of the administrators or mods or owners fussed?

No? Then drop it.

On October 02 2010 05:21 Liquid`HuK wrote:
can i refuse casters in the weekly? i am against it o so much

On October 02 2010 05:42 floor exercise wrote:
Also assuming this new owner gets some % for setting up the trainees with coaches, what's to stop coaches from just not using the service? There obviously has to be some incentive for the new owner to operate gosucoaching, and there has to be some incentive for coaches to use the service.

Every second thread on TL is a gosuthis or a gosuthat so it would be disheartening if the only reason to join it would be to able to get your name out there on TL through gosucoaching without being banned for advertising yourself.

Maybe a forum dedicated to finding practice partners, teams and coaches is in order.

On October 02 2010 05:51 Liquid`HuK wrote:



from what i read the coaches play a flat rate to use the site

On October 02 2010 06:27 babolatt wrote:
For everyone arguing that any type of advertising on this forum is wrong, consider the fact that there are a lot of people on this forum that link to their youtube channels which are often ad supported. Linking those videos results in monetary gain for those involved. Let's not overreact.

On October 02 2010 06:08 floor exercise wrote:


I don't like it. We have limited information so if inc wants to respond and tell me and I am wrong and stupid and ugly that's fine but here's what I don't really like:

I know Incontrol isn't doing the legwork, making these threads and answering all the questions on behalf of this fancy pants business man only to pay a premium to use his site.

And I kind of doubt the "featured" coaches or what have you are either. The ones people actually want to be coached by.

I know Gosucoaching often advertises under the guise of their tournaments, and in a sense that's acceptable. But there is a trend on teamliquid to let them freely advertise and discuss their website that isn't offered to individual coaches at all. In many cases they get their threads closed or they get banned, or in the case of people like Trump they pretty much do it offsite. (I am not sure if trump charges for his lessons i just see him giving them on his stream)

So what it looks to me, admittedly well on the outside, is that through gosucoaching not only can Inc and the EG members offer their coaching services on teamliquid (and threads like this are free advertising) while individual coaches can't, they also charge them a fee for what I can see as the only possible real incentive to join up: get their name out on TL as well.

So why doesn't TL just add a forum for this sort of thing? Hell why doesn't TL charge people to just directly advertise their coaching services here? Gosucoaching seems like it wants to be this essentially pointless middle man exploiting their reign on TL.

Coaching is a service that's worth money to people, I get that, it's cool. But how does Gosucoaching help people do that?

I know the internet is a lot bigger than just teamliquid, but I think it's fair to estimate that like 90% of your customers come from TL

On October 02 2010 06:31 floor exercise wrote:

I fully support offering services to fellow players. I just don't know if I agree with coaches paying gosucoaching for the privilege of gaining presence on TL. If there was a fee attached, why wouldn't it just go directly TL?

On October 02 2010 05:54 fnaticAugury wrote:
You should probably go into a lot more detail regarding how you're planning on solving the previous problem. How is GosuCoaching going to take responsibility for the integrity of their coaches?

Nothing against InControl or anyone else involved, but this seems like the exact same thing that was going on before.

You have a bunch of BW players that had success in a very small field of players that are trying to abuse their TL relationship and notoriety to take advantage of new Sc2 players.

Most players are going to benefit from the coaching received, so there was nothing originally wrong with the plan. Bringing it back is a terrible idea though and reflects poorly on everyone involved. You messed up terribly the last time, nothing has changed, so I don't see why you're trying to bring back a very similar business plan.

You guys obviously provide a valuable and greatly appreciated service to the community with your events, but it's starting to go too far.

On October 02 2010 06:33 {88}iNcontroL wrote:


I think you are over-thinking this.. or under-thinking it.

We are not going to use TL as advetisement. This is a one time blog to announce a relevant community site is back after much drama/closure etc. After that the coaches are merely on the site and they function within the society of SC2.

The "incentive" is to be advertised / rated as a coach. The "flat rate" is undecided on how it will function but probably just a monthly fee that will go to the site for maintenance, owner profit and the weekly. If you don't like it you can coach on your own. Simple as that. We aren't forcing people to coach from there or whatever. But making yourself known as a top rated coach on the top coaching site is pretty lucrative for _EVERYONE_ involved (coaches, owner, students alike).

@questions about name: We kept the name because we already have gosuguide, gosucamp and gosuweekly. Reinventing the name would have been nice considering the past but we weighed that against the name recognition already established with the "good" aspects and thought we were better to remain named gosucoaching. Wrong or right that was the thinking process.

On October 02 2010 05:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote:



If that were true, should I not be able to create any thread I wanted on TL, for monetary gain?

People have been warned/banned or had threads closed in the past for very similar issues. For all the contributions he has done on TL I assumed he had been given a bit of leeway for it, but as a mod it is a completely different ball game, as now it directly ties to TL where before it didn't.

This is not an issue really against inc, or gosucoaching, but entirely a policy issue.

On October 02 2010 06:54 Ronald_McD wrote:


Why do you care so much?

Yes he gets away with minor advertising because he's a moderator
What's the big deal? He's a well respected member and moderator here, so of course he's going to have special priviledges.

I don't see what's so horribly wrong about being a moderator for Team Liquid as well as the head of Gosucoaching

On October 02 2010 06:55 micronesia wrote:

He isn't "getting away" with anything by being a banling. Even if he wasn't a banling he still could have made this blog.

On October 02 2010 07:06 Ronald_McD wrote:


Oh, okay. I'm a little confused though. Does that mean some minor advertising is okay in blogs?

On October 02 2010 07:09 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:

From what I have read so far, only if TL staff likes you. As I posted in the other thread, simply by allowing the thread to exist on the website you are inherently supporting incontrols thread over other users which means even with that disclaimer TL is still endorsing the thread by allowing it to exist within their borders.

Under new ownership Gosucoaching.com has cut out the middle-man aspect and returned to simplicity. No longer will you pay the site at large and then go through a gauntlet of scheduling to get a session. Instead, Gosucoaching will function as a service to both the coaches and the students. Coaches will be able to advertise themselves on the site for a small fee and students will only have to go to 1 place to shop for someone that is interested/willing to coach. Fees, scheduling and anything else is controlled by the coaches. Gosucoaching will function as a quality control site. If a coach is doing a poor job, skipping sessions, bm etc.. they will be removed. The site will soon implement a rating system so all coaches can be reviewed by their students and viewed by prospective students.

On October 02 2010 07:18 fnaticAugury wrote:


You haven't explained how you're going to deal with any issues that come up. You're putting all of the responsibility on the coaches, and not offering any form of protection for the people signing up through coaching on your site.

How are you going to protect students from being screwed over like before? A better system is in place, but I don't see how you're proactively attempting to prevent issues from arising.

Cutting out the "middle man" is nice, but then what's the point of the business? You should be offering a service that's more reliable/trustworthy than a craigslist listing, but you haven't stated how you're going to do that.

On October 02 2010 06:41 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:

http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=157376
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=111835
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=109342
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=107110
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=103660

Out of lazyness:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=gosucoaching:
The forum posts on those to a much lessor extent simply because they are tournaments as well. But then again, that was primarily louder.

But hey, you are right, you definitely don't use TL for advertising/personal profit.

On October 02 2010 07:41 {88}iNcontroL wrote:


If a coach is scamming or w/e we will remove them from the database and out them. That risk has ALWAYS existed we are simply publicizing it which creates a deterrent. no business can offer you 0 risk. The site has a rating system and will remove bad coaches... how is that "full responsibility on the coaches" and even if it was, why is that a bad thing?

Students are protected because they aren't paying a site to have something set up for them (middle man) they are paying the coaches for a service. Just like I have done on a daily basis.

On October 02 2010 04:51 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:

This is BS, this isn't something they are going to come to terms with through PM. I know BC isn't the only person who gets pissed when you see incontrol shamelessly self promotes himself and his ventures and doesn't get warned or threads closed for it.

Every gosucoaching thread he makes annoys me. If he wants to advertise on TL he should buy adds like ANY OTHER person would have to do. I think him even having his signature a direct advertisement is fully stretching the line. The fact he is allowed to just post blogs and threads on this shit is ridiculous.

On October 02 2010 12 im a roc wrote:
Fair enough. Probably makes more sense to keep a name around that people are already familiar with, but good luck dealing with all the drama that comes attached to that name, too >.<

On October 02 2010 05:32 nEAnS wrote:
So I dont understand something; is this the craigslist of starcraft coaching?

On October 02 2010 05:54 fnaticAugury wrote:
You should probably go into a lot more detail regarding how you're planning on solving the previous problem. How is GosuCoaching going to take responsibility for the integrity of their coaches?

Nothing against InControl or anyone else involved, but this seems like the exact same thing that was going on before.

You have a bunch of BW players that had success in a very small field of players that are trying to abuse their TL relationship and notoriety to take advantage of new Sc2 players.

Most players are going to benefit from the coaching received, so there was nothing originally wrong with the plan. Bringing it back is a terrible idea though and reflects poorly on everyone involved. You messed up terribly the last time, nothing has changed, so I don't see why you're trying to bring back a very similar business plan.

You guys obviously provide a valuable and greatly appreciated service to the community with your events, but it's starting to go too far.