• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:39
CEST 22:39
KST 05:39
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun10[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists21[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25Maestros of the Game 2 announced92026 GSL Tour plans announced15Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool MaNa leaves Team Liquid Maestros of the Game 2 announced
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) SC2 INu's Battles#15 <BO.9 2Matches> WardiTV Spring Cup RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event SEL Masters #6 - Solar vs Classic (SC: Evo)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss
Brood War
General
Pros React To: Leta vs Tulbo (ASL S21, Ro.8) ASL21 General Discussion [TOOL] Starcraft Chat Translator JaeDong's ASL S21 Ro16 Post-Review Missed out on ASL tickets - what are my options?
Tourneys
ASL Season 21 LIVESTREAM with English Commentary [ASL21] Ro8 Day 2 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 1 [ASL21] Ro16 Group D
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Diablo IV
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 3D technology/software discussion Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2294 users

Math Puzzle - 7 Hats - Page 5

Blogs > Slithe
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
tofucake
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Hyrule19209 Posts
September 09 2010 21:56 GMT
#81
On September 10 2010 06:54 KarlSberg~ wrote:
First I really thought that would be going to be something retarded, but that's actually a very nice problem.
I think this is the strategy, even though I have a hard time proving it
+ Show Spoiler +

Assign a number to each color (0..6)
Assign a number to each prisoner (0..6)
Each prisonner adds the colors he sees on all other guys + his number
Sum%7 gives the color the prisoner has to announce
In any possible case one (exactly one) prisoner will be right.

And once again, what if the King has a 120 pack of Crayolas? Also, the OP states there could be 2 reds and 1 of 5 other colors.
Liquipediaasante sana squash banana
tofucake
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Hyrule19209 Posts
September 09 2010 21:56 GMT
#82
On September 10 2010 06:55 tissue wrote:
Dear diary,

Today I lost a goodish amount of faith in the intelligence and reading comprehension of the posters on TL.net. Was it like this before starcraft 2?

Quite. SC2 Strategy is the worst forum. Stick to blogs and you should be okay.
Liquipediaasante sana squash banana
BottleAbuser
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)1888 Posts
September 09 2010 21:56 GMT
#83
Let me put this another way.

By definition, if events X and Y are independent, the probability of X doesn't change if Y happens, or Y doesn't happen.

Now, it's obvious that if the prisoners' guesses are independent of each others', then there is absolutely no way to guarantee that they will survive.

So, we must conclude that they are dependent.

However, for this dependency to exist, the guesses must be made BEFORE they are seated at the table, because otherwise the information from one guess cannot be passed to the next prisoner. Then, they have absolutely no clue about the distribution of hats.

It's impossible.
Compilers are like boyfriends, you miss a period and they go crazy on you.
Slithe
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States985 Posts
September 09 2010 21:57 GMT
#84
On September 10 2010 06:54 KarlSberg~ wrote:
First I really thought that would be going to be something retarded, but that's actually a very nice problem.
I think this is the strategy, even though I'm having a hard time proving it
+ Show Spoiler +
Assign a number to each color (0..6)
Assign a number to each prisoner (0..6)
Each prisonner adds the colors he sees on all other guys + his number
Sum%7 gives the color the prisoner has to announce
In any possible case one (exactly one) prisoner will be right.


ding ding ding, we have an answer.
Trump
Profile Joined April 2010
United States350 Posts
September 09 2010 21:57 GMT
#85
Well you can do it for 2 people / 2 hats as shown earlier.

The key is finding a solution for 3 people / 3 hats, then working that up to 4 people / 4 hats, and I'm fairly sure eventually you'd be able to do 7 people / 7 hats.

I'm lazy to solve 3 people / 3 hats, but that's probably how you'd get to it.


(the key is of course that the king doesn't have a 120 pack of crayolas, it's that there are 7 specific colors in the pool)
Friendship is Magic! <3
KarlSberg~
Profile Blog Joined September 2003
731 Posts
September 09 2010 21:57 GMT
#86
On September 10 2010 06:56 tofucake wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2010 06:54 KarlSberg~ wrote:
First I really thought that would be going to be something retarded, but that's actually a very nice problem.
I think this is the strategy, even though I have a hard time proving it
+ Show Spoiler +

Assign a number to each color (0..6)
Assign a number to each prisoner (0..6)
Each prisonner adds the colors he sees on all other guys + his number
Sum%7 gives the color the prisoner has to announce
In any possible case one (exactly one) prisoner will be right.

And once again, what if the King has a 120 pack of Crayolas? Also, the OP states there could be 2 reds and 1 of 5 other colors.

The king has 7 colors as stated in the OP.
About the second remark... well yes he could. So what?
There are 01 kind of people who know binary. Those who understand little endian and those who don t.
Slithe
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States985 Posts
September 09 2010 21:57 GMT
#87
On September 10 2010 06:56 tofucake wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2010 06:54 KarlSberg~ wrote:
First I really thought that would be going to be something retarded, but that's actually a very nice problem.
I think this is the strategy, even though I have a hard time proving it
+ Show Spoiler +

Assign a number to each color (0..6)
Assign a number to each prisoner (0..6)
Each prisonner adds the colors he sees on all other guys + his number
Sum%7 gives the color the prisoner has to announce
In any possible case one (exactly one) prisoner will be right.

And once again, what if the King has a 120 pack of Crayolas? Also, the OP states there could be 2 reds and 1 of 5 other colors.


They know ahead of time what the 7 possible colors are.
tofucake
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Hyrule19209 Posts
September 09 2010 21:58 GMT
#88
So I won? Sweet.

This problem actually does seem like a mashup of several problems. All of the "prisoners with hats" problems I've heard were limited to a set of 1 color and a set of another color (usually red/blue or black/white) and they would be in a line, not a circle. IE: There would be 4 red and 3 blue.
Liquipediaasante sana squash banana
LeoTheLion
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
China958 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-09 22:23:24
September 09 2010 22:00 GMT
#89
this is a really nice problem. we need to find a one to one mapping between the distribution of hats and the distribution of guesses.

i think the way to solve is to break it down into simpler case, for two hats, three hats, and then generalize to 7.

EDIT
SOLUTION FOR THREE HATS:


+ Show Spoiler +

Let's say three colors, color 1, color 2, and color 3. The prisoners arrange themselves as prisoner 1, 2 and 3. Each prisoner has a different strategy, which combined will let them live.

Case 1: both hats you see are same color (11, 22, or 33)
prisoner 1 writes down the same color
prisoner 2 writes down color of one greater
prisoner 3 writes down color of two greater

for example, if you see that the other hats are both color 1, (if you see 11):
--prisoner 1 writes down hat 1 (same)
--prisoner 2 writes down hat 2 (one greater)
--prisoner 3 writes down hat 3 (two greater)

If you see 22
--prisoner 1 writes down 2 (same)
--prisoner 2 writes down 3 (one greater)
--prisoner 3 writes down 1 (two greater)

If you see 33
--prisoner 1 writes down 3
--2 writes down 1
--3 writes down 2


Case 2: if the hats you see are different color (12, 23, or 31)
prisoner 1 writes down the remaining color
prisoner 2 writes down the the left color
prisoner 3 writes down the right color

*note i don't mean traditional left and write.

for example if you see 12
--1 writes down 3
--2 writes down 1
--3 writes down 2

if you see 23
--1 writes down 1
--2 writes down 2
--3 writes down 3

if you see 31
--1 writes down 2
--2 writes down 3
--3 writes down 1


This strategy will cover all 3^3 = 27 possibilities.

for cases where all numbers are same, prisoner 1 guesses right
111, 222, 333

for cases where all numbers are different, prisoner 1 guesses right
123, 231, 312
132, 213, 321 (symmetrical to first)

for cases where two numbers are same, then either prisoner 2 or prisoner 3 will guess right
(prisoner 2 first case, prisoner 3 second case)
121, 113 (prisoner 2 sees 11, so he guesses 2. prisoner 3 sees 11, so he guesses 3)
232, 221
313, 332

112, 131 (prisoner 2 sees 12, so he guesses 1. prisoner 3 sees 31, so he guesses 1)
223, 212
331, 323

211, 311 (symmetrical to case above, since person 2 still sees 12, person 3 still sees 31)
322, 122
133, 233

And those are all the cases.
Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy. -Chairman Mao
The_Pacifist
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States540 Posts
September 09 2010 22:00 GMT
#90
The riddle is impossible because here's what would really happen:

King: ...But there is a mathematical method where your chances of survival are 100%
Prisoners: Great! Let's solve it
*5 blog pages later*
Prisoners: ...Screw it. The king's just trolling us, so let's just get this over with and start guessing.
tofucake
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Hyrule19209 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-09 22:02:06
September 09 2010 22:00 GMT
#91
On September 10 2010 06:57 Slithe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2010 06:56 tofucake wrote:
On September 10 2010 06:54 KarlSberg~ wrote:
First I really thought that would be going to be something retarded, but that's actually a very nice problem.
I think this is the strategy, even though I have a hard time proving it
+ Show Spoiler +

Assign a number to each color (0..6)
Assign a number to each prisoner (0..6)
Each prisonner adds the colors he sees on all other guys + his number
Sum%7 gives the color the prisoner has to announce
In any possible case one (exactly one) prisoner will be right.

And once again, what if the King has a 120 pack of Crayolas? Also, the OP states there could be 2 reds and 1 of 5 other colors.


They know ahead of time what the 7 possible colors are.

Didn't you also state that there could be multiples?
So would this make sense:
Possible
red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet
Actual
red, red, red, yellow, blue, indigo, indigo

Or would it have to be
Possible
red, red, red, yellow, blue, indigo, indigo
Actual
red, red, red, yellow, blue, indigo, indigo
Liquipediaasante sana squash banana
Lark
Profile Joined December 2009
United States24 Posts
September 09 2010 22:02 GMT
#92
After thinking about the problem for a while, I'm convinced there's actually hundreds (of thousands?) of solutions (just like there are 2 solutions to the 2 person problem), based on people picking a certain color based solely on the colors of their opponents. So maybe if he saw colors 1,1,3,6,5,3 in that order he'd pick color 2, and then person 2 would pick 7 and person 3 would pick... etc until someone got it right. And they'd come up with combinations for every situation. All 7^7 of them. We could plug that into a supercomputer and find one of the many answers, but the trick is finding the "simplest" solution. (One that the prisoners could memorize).

So far I've had no luck, but it has to be simple enough that there is a pattern involved, otherwise the puzzle would be nearly impossible.
KarlSberg~
Profile Blog Joined September 2003
731 Posts
September 09 2010 22:02 GMT
#93
@Tofucake
The first one is possible, 7 colors are announced but not all of them have to be present in the actual set.
There are 01 kind of people who know binary. Those who understand little endian and those who don t.
KazeHydra
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Japan2788 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-09 22:06:03
September 09 2010 22:03 GMT
#94
I'm not sure if this is considered communicating so maybe it's not correct, but it should be on the right track at the very least.

+ Show Spoiler +
before sitting down, everyone agrees to only consider one person's hat, person A. Then, they will each assign each other a color based on the 7 colors available. If person A is wearing red, person B will be the first to give his paper to the king; it doesn't matter what person B guesses. Then person A knows his hat is red. If person A's hat is orange, person C will be the first to give his paper to the king, and person A will know his hat is orange, and so on. If person A is wearing the 7th color that is assigned to him, nobody will turn in the paper to the king and person A will know his hat is the 7th color.


edit: aww I guess I was beaten while thinking/writing this up. At least I was kind of close.
"Because I know this promise that won’t disappear will turn even a cause of tears into strength. You taught me that if I can believe, there is nothing that cannot come true." - Nana Mizuki (Yakusoku) 17:36 ils kaze got me into nana 17:36 ils by his blog
Pufftrees
Profile Joined March 2009
2449 Posts
September 09 2010 22:04 GMT
#95
On September 10 2010 06:54 KarlSberg~ wrote:
First I really thought that would be going to be something retarded, but that's actually a very nice problem.
I think this is the strategy, even though I'm having a hard time proving it
+ Show Spoiler +
Assign a number to each color (0..6)
Assign a number to each prisoner (0..6)
Each prisonner adds the colors he sees on all other guys + his number
Sum%7 gives the color the prisoner has to announce
In any possible case one (exactly one) prisoner will be right.



Nice work
Chance favors the prepared mind.
Lark
Profile Joined December 2009
United States24 Posts
September 09 2010 22:05 GMT
#96
@Kaze

They each guess individually, otherwise that would be communicating.
Seth_
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Belgium184 Posts
September 09 2010 22:05 GMT
#97
On September 10 2010 06:54 KarlSberg~ wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Assign a number to each color (0..6)
Assign a number to each prisoner (0..6)
Each prisonner adds the colors he sees on all other guys + his number
Sum%7 gives the color the prisoner has to announce
In any possible case one (exactly one) prisoner will be right.

nice solution
Why didn't I notice the (small hint for people who want to solve it themselves)+ Show Spoiler +
modulo 2
in the 2-player solution.

The next challenge: prove that the solution by KarlSberg is correct :-)
Slithe
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States985 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-09 22:10:51
September 09 2010 22:07 GMT
#98
Let me try and explain Karlsberg's solution a little bit

+ Show Spoiler [solution] +

We assign each color a number from 0-6

Now we can say that the prisoners are essentially getting a number, c0,c1,c2,c3,c4,c5,c6.

S = (c0 + c1 + c2 + c3 + c4 + c5 + c6) modulo 7

S has seven possible values, 0-6

At this point, what each prisoner is doing is trying to guess what S is, and solving for their own number to match S.

Prisoner 0 assumes S = 0, and solves the equation c0 = S - (c1+c2+c3+c4+c5+c6)
Prisoner 1 assumes S = 1, and solves the equation c1 = S - (c0+c2+c3+c4+c5+c6)
and so on..

At least one of the 7 prisoners will assume the correct S value. That prisoner will be able to guess the correct number for their own hat.
madnessman
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States1581 Posts
September 09 2010 22:07 GMT
#99
On September 10 2010 06:58 tofucake wrote:
So I won? Sweet.

This problem actually does seem like a mashup of several problems. All of the "prisoners with hats" problems I've heard were limited to a set of 1 color and a set of another color (usually red/blue or black/white) and they would be in a line, not a circle. IE: There would be 4 red and 3 blue.


yeah i'm familiar with that kind of hat problem but i've never heard of a problem with 7 hat colors before.
LastPrime
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States109 Posts
September 09 2010 22:11 GMT
#100
Guys this is really easy:
+ Show Spoiler +

Assign each color a value 0-6. Each person takes sum of all the colors he sees and says the result in mod 7 (says the corresponding color to the sum). If you let a_1 be the first person's color, a_2 second guy's, etc, and S the sum of all, the first person will say S-a_1 (mod 7), second S-a_2, etc. Now it is possible to express all a_2, a_3, ... a_7 in terms of a_1. Add all values (expressed in terms of a_1) and you get 7a_1 + X, for some X. X = S (mod 7). Now the only thing the last person has to do is subtract and get his color.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 12h 21m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Railgan 151
BRAT_OK 94
JuggernautJason85
MindelVK 15
StarCraft: Brood War
HiyA 452
Larva 356
Movie 130
Sexy 99
Dewaltoss 83
firebathero 80
Dota 2
monkeys_forever344
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps1939
Super Smash Bros
PPMD25
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu466
Other Games
summit1g5851
tarik_tv4157
Grubby3619
FrodaN1244
ceh9636
shahzam394
mouzStarbuck379
C9.Mang0233
elazer117
UpATreeSC100
RotterdaM81
QueenE72
NightEnD30
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV301
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream73
StarCraft 2
angryscii 24
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 5
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 38
• Azhi_Dahaki22
• RayReign 14
• FirePhoenix7
• Michael_bg 4
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Other Games
• imaqtpie1273
• Shiphtur294
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
12h 21m
Escore
13h 21m
INu's Battles
14h 21m
Classic vs ByuN
SHIN vs ByuN
OSC
16h 21m
Big Brain Bouts
19h 21m
Replay Cast
1d 3h
Replay Cast
1d 12h
RSL Revival
1d 13h
Classic vs GgMaChine
Rogue vs Maru
WardiTV Invitational
1d 14h
IPSL
1d 19h
Ret vs Art_Of_Turtle
Radley vs TBD
[ Show More ]
BSL
1d 22h
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
herO vs TriGGeR
NightMare vs Solar
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
BSL
2 days
IPSL
2 days
eOnzErG vs TBD
G5 vs Nesh
Patches Events
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Jaedong vs Light
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Snow vs Flash
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
GSL
5 days
Classic vs Cure
Maru vs Rogue
GSL
6 days
SHIN vs Zoun
ByuN vs herO
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-29
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W5
KK 2v2 League Season 1
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.