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Do you REALLY want e-Sports? - Page 2

Blogs > Milkis
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Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
September 02 2010 23:07 GMT
#21
The way they're trying so hard to kill off BW is retarded. They're pissing all over us fans. I was looking forward to SC2 so much, thinking it would be something that would happily co-exist with BW, but noooooooooo. They had to be greedy fucking assholes. I'm totally boycotting Blizzard/Gretech.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
leomon
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada169 Posts
September 02 2010 23:09 GMT
#22
On September 03 2010 08:04 fabiano wrote:
Are you serious?

If SC2 doesnt get big in Korea, the game will die. Do you think any other country in the world gives a shit about e-sports?

Personally, I will only accept SC2 as BW successor if the Koreans start dominating it and a pro scene is created over there. If that doesnt happen, I feel like SC2 is lacking something.


This.

Blizzard is trying too hard with Korea, but not neccessarily doing the correct things. Despite kespa's past history of treating players and what not, they always have the fans in mind. Blizzard on the other hand, seems like they don't care for the fans one bit at all.

If SC2 wants to succeed as an esport, blizzard better step it up, especially in korea, where things are in shambles.
Radians
Megalisk
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States6095 Posts
September 02 2010 23:10 GMT
#23
On September 03 2010 08:00 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2010 07:53 moopie wrote:
On September 03 2010 07:42 Saracen wrote:
Great rant. I really, really try to find evidence that Blizzard cares about eSports. But it seems that every single decision they make is just one huge fuckup after another in that department.

Viewable match history? The ladder maps are a joke. The balance is a joke. How about implementing a decent map system? How about allowing users to contribute a decent map pool? Paying to watch a tournament? No one paid to watch Brood War. No one paid to watch the World Cup. What dumbass is going to pay to watch a SC2 tournament on imbalanced maps with imbalanced races? B.net is still a joke. Every day, Blizzard seems more and more like a bunch of foreign corporate suits flocking in to seize control of a dying industry, but totally disregarding its history, integrity, and pride. Like, one day, maybe in '07, some Blizzard guys were like "omg look, SC is doing so well in Korea, we gotta get on that shit." And then they brute-force their way into the industry while madly waving the bullshit "eSports" flag to the public.

That's pretty much it, yeah.

Bnet 0.2
No LAN
Segregated realms
No chatrooms for release
Attempting to squeeze out the BW scene to make room for SC2
Pay-only streams for GSL

It really is just trying to destroy the competition so you can push an inferior product out to the masses with the biggest profit margin possible. The sad thing is if they tried it the traditional way, didn't try to control and squeeze KeSPA out with those ridiculous demands and instead cooperated with the already existing esport scene in Korea, balanced or not, the bigger teams (SKT, KT, STX) would surely have added SC2 teams and OGN/MBCGame would give airtime to a SC2 proleague.

For all their talk of esports and wanting this to go global (while being in the driver seat like they are trying to be), Blizzard hasn't once (in over 10 years) tried to set up anything in the US or Europe. Too much effort, time and risk. They just saw what Korea had and wanted a piece of it.

Even if they get their way and kill off BW though, the Korean fans will hate them and I can't see the current sponsors showing too much appreciation either. By shitting on KeSPA they are shitting on some of Korea's biggest corporations (who hopefully won't scab later). I really hope this comes back to bite them in the ass -_-
[/rant]
The thing which annoys me more than anything else is that SC2 is such an amazing game that if they had just gone for a hands off approach then SC2 would have thrived and developed EXACTLY like they are trying to force it to right now.


Yeah the game itself is the shit but everything around it sucks balls.
Tear stained american saints and dirty guitar dreams across a universe of desert and blue sky , gas station coffee love letters and two dollar pistol kisses from thirty five dollar hotel room stationary .
moopie
Profile Joined July 2009
12605 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-02 23:12:56
September 02 2010 23:12 GMT
#24
On September 03 2010 08:07 imbecile wrote:
They will fix it all by putting a lot of money into price pools.

Prize pool won't get them fans.

Prize pool won't get them actual progaming teams anywhere near the same level, since individual leagues only cater to the top few % of people, and the rest get eliminated in prelims/ro32. At best you'll get a few guys in a clan with a sponsor and try their luck month after month.

Prize pool won't get them sponsor recognition after they go around pissing on some of the biggest potential sponsors in Korea and destroying the natural order of things.

Hell, prize pool won't even bring the loved BW icons to SC2 (which is how you would want to phase SC2 in to begin with).
I'm going to sleep, let me get some of that carpet.
NeoOmega
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States495 Posts
September 02 2010 23:13 GMT
#25
Watching SC2 and SC1 are two totally different things in my eyes. (I currently prefer watching SC1) The idea that any Starcraft 2 league is going to instantly make me stop caring about Flash vs Jaedong is insane. Trying to kill SC1 is only pissing me off and at this rate Gretech will not get a dime from me...
supernovamaniac
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States3048 Posts
September 02 2010 23:15 GMT
#26
On September 03 2010 07:58 Sinensis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2010 07:43 Lysis wrote:
Although I find your rant to make a lot of sense, I don't see a mention of the rest of the world in this. In my opinion: fuck Korea, I couldn't care less about what goes on over there, since it doesn't affect me one bit. GSL? more like a Korean SC2 League since the friggen qualifiers were held in Seoul and if you couldn't hop on a plane to Korea tough luck. Instead of focusing on Korea like it's Mecca or something let's make e-Sports truly global so people like me (high schooler from the US) involved in this like any other kid can be involved in sports. Call Blizzard greedy, stupid, uninformed or whatever the hell you want to, but they're the ones who can actually make this happen.


This blog is about Korean Starleagues. If you've found this page by accident, you can try using your browser's "Back" button.

I'm always happy so see what our translators think. Good rant, although very depressing subject matter. "At least the leagues will run until this is settled in court" is the best news anywhere in sight, at least that I've been able to find. Dark times.

IMO people at TL who knows about the Korean sources and spends time reading them find themselves not only educated about the Korean scene, but also the users' comments.

Example:

Fuck SC1 and KeSPA, it's time for Gretech to shine
LOL AT KeSPA GETTING OWNED BY GRETECH AND BLIZZARD
I honestly want SC1 to live, but not KeSPA
ppp
BlindPhaydo
Profile Joined August 2010
United States33 Posts
September 02 2010 23:21 GMT
#27
Awesome rant, i completely agree. I never liked Kespa in the past, and I was very sympathetic to Gretech during the GomTV conflicts with Kespa, but the recent actions of Blizzard/Gretech have made me nostalgic for the time when Kespa had full control (lol never thought I'd say that!). At least Kespa actually has a clue about how to make e-sports work.

I think this situation also shows how power corrupts. Back when Gretech was the underdog and the little guy, they put out a great product and tried to work together with Kespa (only to get shot down). Now that Gretech is in control, they're showing their true colors (threatening to end MSL and PL, charging outrageous fees, shutting down alternate streaming and forcing everyone to watch through GomPlayer) and it turns out they're worse than Kespa ever was.
ShivaN
Profile Joined January 2007
United States933 Posts
September 02 2010 23:23 GMT
#28
On September 03 2010 08:00 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2010 07:53 moopie wrote:
On September 03 2010 07:42 Saracen wrote:
Great rant. I really, really try to find evidence that Blizzard cares about eSports. But it seems that every single decision they make is just one huge fuckup after another in that department.

Viewable match history? The ladder maps are a joke. The balance is a joke. How about implementing a decent map system? How about allowing users to contribute a decent map pool? Paying to watch a tournament? No one paid to watch Brood War. No one paid to watch the World Cup. What dumbass is going to pay to watch a SC2 tournament on imbalanced maps with imbalanced races? B.net is still a joke. Every day, Blizzard seems more and more like a bunch of foreign corporate suits flocking in to seize control of a dying industry, but totally disregarding its history, integrity, and pride. Like, one day, maybe in '07, some Blizzard guys were like "omg look, SC is doing so well in Korea, we gotta get on that shit." And then they brute-force their way into the industry while madly waving the bullshit "eSports" flag to the public.

That's pretty much it, yeah.

Bnet 0.2
No LAN
Segregated realms
No chatrooms for release
Attempting to squeeze out the BW scene to make room for SC2
Pay-only streams for GSL

It really is just trying to destroy the competition so you can push an inferior product out to the masses with the biggest profit margin possible. The sad thing is if they tried it the traditional way, didn't try to control and squeeze KeSPA out with those ridiculous demands and instead cooperated with the already existing esport scene in Korea, balanced or not, the bigger teams (SKT, KT, STX) would surely have added SC2 teams and OGN/MBCGame would give airtime to a SC2 proleague.

For all their talk of esports and wanting this to go global (while being in the driver seat like they are trying to be), Blizzard hasn't once (in over 10 years) tried to set up anything in the US or Europe. Too much effort, time and risk. They just saw what Korea had and wanted a piece of it.

Even if they get their way and kill off BW though, the Korean fans will hate them and I can't see the current sponsors showing too much appreciation either. By shitting on KeSPA they are shitting on some of Korea's biggest corporations (who hopefully won't scab later). I really hope this comes back to bite them in the ass -_-
[/rant]
The thing which annoys me more than anything else is that SC2 is such an amazing game that if they had just gone for a hands off approach then SC2 would have thrived and developed EXACTLY like they are trying to force it to right now.

The problem for Blizzard is that's not soon enough for them. They want instant results as soon as the game's released. They can't be bothered with waiting a few years for the SC2 scene to develop and really get into a groove itself. So instead they've just been trying to man-handle it into the eSports scene. I've really lost a lot of respect for all the companies involved (Blizzard, KeSPA, Gretech) over the last few months. None of them are doing this for the fans, or in my eyes, even partially for the fans. It's really quite disheartening watching this great thing that I've derived so many hours of joy from watching and experiencing could come all crumbling down because of greed basically. Dark times for eSports indeed.
gyth
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
657 Posts
September 02 2010 23:24 GMT
#29
Who would want to sponsor the next Proleague, when there's a chance of it getting shut down?

How awesome would it be if they got the biggest law firm in Korea as the next PL sponsor.
^_^
The plural of anecdote is not data.
SONE
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada839 Posts
September 02 2010 23:24 GMT
#30
ilu milkis, good read
gyth
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
657 Posts
September 02 2010 23:32 GMT
#31
If SC2 doesnt get big in Korea, the game will die. Do you think any other country in the world gives a shit about e-sports?

I think this is a very defeatist attitude.
Raleigh and others have shown that the world is open to e-sports.
Korea taking a backseat on SC2 would be a good thing for international e-sports IMO.
Looking at just Seoul is short-sighted, THE WORLD IS READY!
The plural of anecdote is not data.
Kennigit *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada19447 Posts
September 02 2010 23:36 GMT
#32
On September 03 2010 07:35 thedeadhaji wrote:
so they're more focused on getting black in short term.

How dare you
swanized
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada2480 Posts
September 02 2010 23:38 GMT
#33
On September 03 2010 08:32 gyth wrote:
Show nested quote +
If SC2 doesnt get big in Korea, the game will die. Do you think any other country in the world gives a shit about e-sports?

I think this is a very defeatist attitude.
Raleigh and others have shown that the world is open to e-sports.
Korea taking a backseat on SC2 would be a good thing for international e-sports IMO.
Looking at just Seoul is short-sighted, THE WORLD IS READY!



ehh not really?

raleigh was a nice event and all but in the grand scheme of things worldwide E-Sports need korea to be able to strive

PL grand finals : 30 000 people (2nd worst showing in history)
Raleigh: a good bunch of thousands less with a lot not even being SC2 fans
Writer
supernovamaniac
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States3048 Posts
September 02 2010 23:42 GMT
#34
On September 03 2010 08:32 gyth wrote:
Show nested quote +
If SC2 doesnt get big in Korea, the game will die. Do you think any other country in the world gives a shit about e-sports?

I think this is a very defeatist attitude.
Raleigh and others have shown that the world is open to e-sports.


With less intense actions and overall disappointing games.


Korea taking a backseat on SC2 would be a good thing for international e-sports IMO


Because the whole SC scene in Korea is not huge afaik.


Looking at just Seoul is short-sighted, THE WORLD IS READY!


World isn't ready. ESL was okay, MLG was just stupid on how things were run and the games itself. Will it get larger? Hopefully. Will SC / SC2 scene around the world become as big as / bigger than Korea? At this rate, No.
ppp
imbecile
Profile Joined October 2009
563 Posts
September 02 2010 23:44 GMT
#35
On September 03 2010 08:12 moopie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2010 08:07 imbecile wrote:
They will fix it all by putting a lot of money into price pools.

Prize pool won't get them fans.

Prize pool won't get them actual progaming teams anywhere near the same level, since individual leagues only cater to the top few % of people, and the rest get eliminated in prelims/ro32. At best you'll get a few guys in a clan with a sponsor and try their luck month after month.

Prize pool won't get them sponsor recognition after they go around pissing on some of the biggest potential sponsors in Korea and destroying the natural order of things.

Hell, prize pool won't even bring the loved BW icons to SC2 (which is how you would want to phase SC2 in to begin with).


Hey, should have used sarcasm tags.
cornwell1961
Profile Joined April 2010
Afghanistan56 Posts
September 02 2010 23:48 GMT
#36
i may not agree on everything you wrote but this surely makes me sad
SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
September 02 2010 23:49 GMT
#37
Great read..it's sad on how things turn out after all this time..

and btw, I found typos.
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
September 02 2010 23:53 GMT
#38
On September 03 2010 08:44 imbecile wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2010 08:12 moopie wrote:
On September 03 2010 08:07 imbecile wrote:
They will fix it all by putting a lot of money into price pools.

Prize pool won't get them fans.

Prize pool won't get them actual progaming teams anywhere near the same level, since individual leagues only cater to the top few % of people, and the rest get eliminated in prelims/ro32. At best you'll get a few guys in a clan with a sponsor and try their luck month after month.

Prize pool won't get them sponsor recognition after they go around pissing on some of the biggest potential sponsors in Korea and destroying the natural order of things.

Hell, prize pool won't even bring the loved BW icons to SC2 (which is how you would want to phase SC2 in to begin with).


Hey, should have used sarcasm tags.

But yeah this is the problem. I as a spectator don't give a shit if it's a 2000$ or a 150.000$ prize pool. They'll have the same players participating, they'll try just as hard. Having regular salaries and a teamleague would be much better for SCII as an ESPORT but Blizzard doesn't understand. They never do.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
shadesofkarma
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Romania708 Posts
September 02 2010 23:55 GMT
#39
Only if Kespa managed a few small situations differently and caused some less shitstorms, they would have a lot more support and their position would be a lot more favorable. T_T
Zaphid
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic1860 Posts
September 03 2010 00:00 GMT
#40
I pretty much agree on this, it's like watching 2 little kids fight, you would prefer to just smack them and tell them to wisen up.

BTW I'm calling it here, this season was the last "complete" season for BW, at least one major korean tourney will die and the rest will follow suit within a year.
I will never ever play Mech against Protoss. - MVP
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