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Milkis
5003 Posts
I don't know if you are mixing SC2 and BW progamers, trying to be sarcastic or just contradict yourself. SC2 progamers should start from a complete zero (what's the point? if SC2 is not worth it will day anyways) and then you say it's bad there won't be established teams already and just tournament prizes? No, I'm saying that they should start from where BW left off, not start all over again. Also people dont play W3, they play DOTA haha | ||
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beetlelisk
Poland2276 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Also I made a typo it's die not day TT | ||
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gyth
657 Posts
Less then 2% of Koreans watched BW on the tv like 2 years ago Sounds like a mistranslation of "Koreans watch BW 2% less than 2 years ago". Gretech is starting over from square one when they shouldn't be. If all the participants aren't making a living then it isn't professional e-sports. I think charging fans for e-sports is a sub-par strategy when willing sponsors exist. (and having sponsors and still charging fans seems pretty wtf) | ||
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SkyLegenD
United States304 Posts
On September 03 2010 12:23 Madkipz wrote: and ? your suggestion lacks purpose and an alternative so sc2. Like the OP stated, Gretech is a tool of Blizzard and is doing this on purpose. It does NOT want the SC:BW pro scene to survive at all, because that means Blizzard just wasted hundreds of millions of dollars on making SC2. I refuse to be part of a brainwashed puppet of Blizzard. | ||
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OpticalShot
Canada6330 Posts
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fantomex
United States313 Posts
Maybe it would help if they actually made Battlenet 2.0 more flexible and helpful to finding games, and building connections so you can have practice partners, like the hundreds of aspiring amateurs. But nope. Let's fragment the user bases by forcing people to buy multiple copies. Let's not have chat channels (oh wait, they're patching it on like it's some new feature. nice job there lololol). Maybe make Battlenet 2.0... eSports friendly. Then again, I don't even know. /facepalm Yes, no chat channels and a silo'd user base are annoying. But on the list of things bnet2 could do to help esports? They aren't top 5 and may not be top 10. How about built in tournaments that are constantly running where players at any skill level can compete? (Ladder grinding was okay... in the 90's) How about watching replays with other people? How about a matchmaking service designed for practice games (I'm T, match me with a P of equal skill level). How about 99 challenge modes instead of 9 that help players improve basics, and add new challenge modes as the meta game changes. How about requiring every Blizzard approved tournament release all replays within 7 days? How about having a pro-division where all replays are public? How about having pro-division tournaments with anonymous spectators. Seriously guys, I know its tempting to throw in complaints about bnet2 in every rant. But don't be lazy about it. Expand on the group-think. | ||
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Captain Peabody
United States3125 Posts
The collateral damage that this conflict is already having is unbelievable. Neither side seems to care enough about the effect their childish power games are having on the e-sports scene, and on its fans, to make some kind of compromise. Because, really, there's no reason in the world why there can't be a compromise. There's no reason in the world why SC2 and BW can't co-exist in Korea. After all, why the kark wouldn't the OGN people want to run SC2 in addition to their own leagues if it would draw viewers (which it would, eventually)? Why wouldn't pro-teams want to have some b-teamers play SC2 if they can win big bucks in the GSL as opposed to warming the bench and earning the team nothing? Basically, it's pretty much just Gom and especially Kespa who are pissed off at each other, and unwilling to let that happen. And the reason for that is money, person grudges, and power. And frankly, that's sad. Because the fans deserve better... | ||
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justle
United States174 Posts
That dynamic has shifted. Obviously there is still tons of player organized competition. A ton of players who are either new to eSports, or have quickly forgotten the roots, are now expecting the developers to worry about doing a lot of this work for them. The developer's responsibility is to sell copies of the game. That means creating a stellar single player campaign, then adding multiplayer features, then offering support to make sure the game remains playable. The developer's responsibility is NOT to facilitate competition and an eSports community around their game. As arrogant as we would like to be, competitive gamers make up a small portion of the market share for any game genre, thus the developers make the casual fan (who are, large in part, paying the bills) a priority. Be thankful that Blizzard, like very few game developers, offer us ANY support and communicate with the eSports community at all. Fantomex (above) has a laundry list of complaints and then says "I know it's tempting to throw in complaints..." (which he does at length), "but don't be lazy about it." Don't be lazy? The current eSports community is significantly more lazy than those who laid the foundation before us. If you see something that is a problem, FIND A WAY TO FIX IT. | ||
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blahman3344
United States2015 Posts
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entocheets
Australia367 Posts
I just feel that it will take time. I'm going to work on my Protoss gameplay for now instead of worrying about the direction of e-sports. | ||
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
On September 03 2010 11:09 gyth wrote: They're devoted to a different game. I think it would be easier for an international league to find sponsors than force Korea to switch to SC2. Are you talking about Koreans being devoted to SC1? And Blizzard/GOM are even destroying that. And if you're talking about foreigners, Exactly why SC2 eSports won't survive outside of Korea. Other games are too established, and even if some big company decides to sponsor it then it'd be hard for it to find publicity imo. People won't care because they're too busy with their own little games on their XBoxs and PS3s and Wiis and whatnot. | ||
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gyth
657 Posts
Are you talking about Koreans being devoted to SC1? Yes Exactly why SC2 eSports won't survive outside of Korea. Other games are too established, and even if some big company decides to sponsor it then it'd be hard for it to find publicity imo. I don't see other games being well established anywhere EXCEPT Korea. This site did a rapid embracing of SC2. SC2 was welcomed at several "major" esports events. And while they're not as big as BW in Korea, I think they represent a real possibility for the continued development of esports. | ||
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
On September 04 2010 07:36 gyth wrote: Yes I don't see other games being well established anywhere EXCEPT Korea. This site did a rapid embracing of SC2. SC2 was welcomed at several "major" esports events. And while they're not as big as BW in Korea, I think they represent a real possibility for the continued development of esports. I agree that while the major tournaments that have happened so far are very encouraging, I am just doubting the development of SC2 as an eSport internationally to the level of what BW was in Korea because of the issues mentioned in the article. And while it may not be necessary for SC2 to develop to such a huge level, it will be sad as there will be no longer any Starcraft at such a large scale if the recent developments in the degradation of the Brood War scene continue. | ||
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
heh funny in more ways than one | ||
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SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1711 Posts
how much of the problem could be rooted from how these companies cannot extract enough money from the fans? everybody is selfish because they need to be. is their system screwed up in a way that a sport cannot be organized from scbw in a way that is profitable for all involved parties? or is there no way the fans would possibly pay enough money to truly make scbw a [profitable] spectator sport [for the "organizers"]? | ||
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gyth
657 Posts
or is there no way the fans would possibly pay enough money to truly make scbw a [profitable] spectator sport [for the "organizers"]? I think it depends what you mean by profitable. Under the current scheme (as I understand it) noone was directly collecting money from fans. Operating costs/prize pool are paid by the sponsor and hopefully that is a positive use of advertising dollars. Gretech has shifted the money issue directly onto the fans in addition to the indirect advertising. I'm not sure if this shift is just due to skyrocketing operating costs (thanks blizzard?) or whether gretech is just trying to make more money. | ||
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TheTeamLiquidTiger
United States627 Posts
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Starshaped
Sweden575 Posts
Also people dont play W3, they play DOTA haha WC3 is easily more popular than SC in every part of the world except South Korea. ; ))))) I don't really enjoy SC2, it's too much like SC1. I hope everything goes to hell and that we'll have Warcraft 4 within a few years XDDDDD! | ||
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SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1711 Posts
On September 04 2010 10:18 gyth wrote: I think it depends what you mean by profitable. Under the current scheme (as I understand it) noone was directly collecting money from fans. Operating costs/prize pool are paid by the sponsor and hopefully that is a positive use of advertising dollars. Gretech has shifted the money issue directly onto the fans in addition to the indirect advertising. I'm not sure if this shift is just due to skyrocketing operating costs (thanks blizzard?) or whether gretech is just trying to make more money. maybe that's the right move. ultimately the fans fuel everything. a lot of people here feel powerless but that shouldn't be entirely true. these companies know that there is something here. question is whether they can make it profitable enough. there are a lot of fans. but will these fans bring in cash? what i'm trying to say is that the success of all this, i feel, depends on the fans. even if all these companies are actually making a mistake, which is debatable, if there really is a lot of support (financial/profitable/cash-generating support) from the fans, eventually someone would eventually be able to tap that market and make big $$$. then we'll have our e-sport. if that is not the case, then... we'll be lucky if things stay as they are.. but again, it depends on the fans... we shouldn't be blaming the money-grubbing companies so much btw, profitable not just meaning you get more money than you put out. it has to be "worthwhile" profitable. otherwise, they'll put their money to good use elsewhere. + Show Spoiler + On September 04 2010 10:37 TheTeamLiquidTiger wrote: when companies start making money, they just can't stop T.T well, can we really blame them? | ||
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MuffinDude
United States3837 Posts
On September 04 2010 11:13 Starshaped wrote: WC3 is easily more popular than SC in every part of the world except South Korea. ; ))))) I don't really enjoy SC2, it's too much like SC1. I hope everything goes to hell and that we'll have Warcraft 4 within a few years XDDDDD! Only in China and Europe. Others its about half half. But then WC3's scene is crap compared to BW's scene due to Korea's huge sponsors and all. But I would have to mostly agree with milkis. In my opinion, blizzard made a terrible move by making it much much harder to get sponsorship. I mean come on, the MSL recently had trouble finding a sponsor and now you're making it much much harder to get sponsorship? What are you thinking!!! All Blizzard cares is about the revenue. Blizzard is trying to force SC2 into the community, which will not work. BW scene developed very very slowly with many hardships on the way. Blizzard is just using BW's name to try and get SC2's proscene up and running. They are making a huge mistake here and I hope they back out sooner or later. | ||
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