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5003 Posts
Disclaimer: This is a rant. It may have wrong information, or potentially, even wrong opinions. It may be jumping to conclusions on incomplete or even wrong information. This is just a rant. It maybe confusing in sections. I don't speak for TL, just for myself.
In Korea, the amount of support gets Gretech gets is rather insane. No, let's put it this way -- the amount of netizen support Blizzard, and thus, Gretech gets, is insane. There is simply one reason why this is the case, and that's because of KeSPA and all the wrongs they have committed.
KeSPA is the organization that "runs the show". They have an executive office and the board of directors, which is made of company representatives that sponsor eSports in Korea. They're no where close to a decent organization in terms of the amount of hiccups they have caused, whether it be from the rules they set up or even their scheduling, drafting, and how much "control" they have over the players. They screwed up a lot in the past, and to be honest they have the attitude that eSports in Korea cannot succeed without them, which is pretty much the reason why I'm guessing they probably treated Blizzard like dirt in negotiations. Every time they fuck up, the fans rage, and the it builds up over time. Over the 10 years, there were quite a number of incidents, and they're sort of going through it not proactively, but fixing problems as they run into them.
And all that rage is why there's a lot of netizen support for Blizzard/Gretech. Why? It's the "Anti KeSPA".
I think to an extent Gretech/Blizzard let this false sense of support get to their heads. They believe they're getting supported because they're doing something right with eSports, not because KeSPA had made a ton of mistakes in the past. What gives them the balls to try and "kill" (depending on, of course, whose words you believe more) Proleague and the Starleague? They believe that they have the fans support. Why else would they charge for the GSL, a league that is just now starting, on a game that is supposedly "imbalanced" and still in development? Can they even guarantee the streams will be stable, and can they even guarantee that the games will be even worth watching? In a time period where MMORPGs get bitched at for being pay to play, can they really afford to this?
Do you want e-Sports? I don't care if you're being underpaid and tired. That's how e-Sports began in Korea. Does Gretech really believe that they can get away with building e-Sports without sacrifices, sweat and toil of many, many people? That's why e-Sports grew -- they did it for the fans. The progamers who built the BW scene? They lived in cramped apartments, eating ramen and instant foods. You wanna bitch about progamer conditions now? If you start digging around the old BW threads, you can find threads about players finally being sponsored and getting to move into a "luxury apartment". Those are the conditions. You're underpaid and want compensation? Don't expect e-Sports to grow.
Their philosophy is also absolutely and utterly laughable. yes, let's make all progamers "prize hunters" again. Let's just move back to those days where progamers live in tiny apartments. The team that wins first and second place? Great for them, they can eat this month. The rest? Well, you're fucked, time to boil that ramen again. Let's bring all that uncertainty back.
Maybe it would help if they actually made Battlenet 2.0 more flexible and helpful to finding games, and building connections so you can have practice partners, like the hundreds of aspiring amateurs. But nope. Let's fragment the user bases by forcing people to buy multiple copies. Let's not have chat channels (oh wait, they're patching it on like it's some new feature. nice job there lololol). Maybe make Battlenet 2.0... eSports friendly. Then again, I don't even know.
Where are the fans in the decision making, for all parties? At least KeSPA is forced to care, at least a little (although sometimes it makes us laugh, especially now). Where were the fans when you were deciding the features? It honestly looks like Battle.net 2.0 was created to be easiest to manage for Blizzard, rather than built for the fans. LAN? Sorry, KeSPA will hold illegal esports tournaments so we can't have that. Oh right, and piracy. Chat Channels? Sorry, we don't want to moderate it. No Chat Channels. Cross Realm Play? Pain in the ass to make servers respond like that. Map Distribution? Sorry, we're gonna make this a pain in thea ss so we can be sure what kind of maps are being on. Oh, and we'll sell them too $_$. Where are the fans in this? Were they even in the decision process, or were they assumed in all of this?
And what the fuck kind of advertisements do you think you're running? Oh, let's break Korean laws, even though we said we won't do it again, and put advertisements where they're not supposed to go. Oh, let's just put up SC2 posters on random PC Bangs without the owners content. Let's also put it on top of other games advertising. Oh, let's make a lotteria set menu. I BET THIS WILL REALLY MAKE PEOPLE WANNA PLAY STARCRAFT.
For all the shit Blizzard has done in Korea, like making sure everything is perfectly lip synched to the dubbed Korean voices, eliminating every last trace of the roman alphabet, making the game free... Blizzard seems to have missed certain obvious things. It's like wearing a suit and dressing up but your hair is messed up. It's minor, but when people look at it, they don't look at your suit, they look at your hair. Why is there no package release in Korea? Everywhere other than Korea seems to have them. Why treat SC2 like a MMORPG? Are you trying to tell us something about Starcraft 2, Blizzard? For all that 300 million budget you spent on advertising, you seemed to have spent it in the wrong places. How utterly suffocating.
And Gretech. lol. Okay. We KNOW KeSPA has been a bunch of douchebags. But when obviously, through what's been revealed in the negotiations... you seem to have revealed to us you were on KeSPA's level all along. Fuck the fans. Who cares about them? All Gretech seems to care is getting their sweet little revenge, rejecting Proleague and MSL. Oh, yes, point to the good little OGN who did sign the contract... do you really think OGN would want their 10th anniversary, Finals held in Shanghai to be canned by legal bullshit? Of course they'll pay up... this time. Are you sure they'll be paying up again?
Who the hell would want to sponsor this kind of scene? Who would want to sponsor the next Proleague, when there's a chance of it getting shut down? Or MSL or OGN, where the fees would undoubtedly fall to the Sponsors? Let's make sponsoring even harder, after all the bullshit that was caused by the negotiations.
Fuck. Why doesnt BLizzard just sell Starcraft to KeSPA or something and let it be done? I'm sure some Korean company will cough up some pretty penny for having Blizzard/Gretech off of their fucking backs.
All of this is just bullshit. This is supposed to be for the fans. I don't see anything here, ANYWHERE, that is for the fans. Thanks KeSPA, Blizzard, Gretech, for reminding us how much you care about the fans, so much that all three parties are showing as they are willing to give us ZERO sacrifices to please their fans, but caring more about making their lives easier.
Welcome to e-Sports 2.0
 
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Don't you mean e-Sports 0.2?
If PL/MSL/OSL wen't away I would get depressed ;;.
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It's certainly going to be a tense month.
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No clue myself where all this is heading, I'm trying to hope for the best, but it's like we're in the dark ages of e-sports. Blizzard is trying too hard to make e-sports work with starcraft 2, forcing it instead of letting it develop.
Breaking down everything just to make people like your product is insane, and I really do hope they know what they are doing.
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If Blizzard went less greedy and KeSPA less stupid, and them both joined forces, by know we would have been commenting about the awesome match between TLO and Boxer on Blistering Sands for the Pocari Sweat Proleague 2010-2011 and wondering why Bisu is slumping.
Too bad what we comment today is how BW is gonna be killed by SC2, and the last one failing in Korea.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
The simple answer to "why" all this has to happen, is because of the monies ofc.
A lot of KeSPA's "control" ensures that the companies can profit from the proscene.
I doubt GRETech has any sort of long term business sense or vision, so they're more focused on getting black in short term.
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Yeah, after the initial amazement from the announcement of the GSL's prize pool stunned everyone, every other action surrounding the tournament has not been "for the fans". The entire spectrum of Gretech's actions, from their apparent attempts to reduce the current BW scene as competition to the idea that they can somehow extract such ridiculous fees from their foreign viewers (but still free for Koreans!)...you'd be hard pressed to argue that Gretech's doing things for the fans.
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Great rant. I really, really try to find evidence that Blizzard cares about eSports. But it seems that every single decision they make is just one huge fuckup after another in that department.
Viewable match history? The ladder maps are a joke. The balance is a joke. How about implementing a decent map system? How about allowing users to contribute a decent map pool? Paying to watch a tournament? No one paid to watch Brood War. No one paid to watch the World Cup. What dumbass is going to pay to watch a SC2 tournament on imbalanced maps with imbalanced races? B.net is still a joke. Every day, Blizzard seems more and more like a bunch of foreign corporate suits flocking in to seize control of a dying industry, but totally disregarding its history, integrity, and pride. Like, one day, maybe in '07, some Blizzard guys were like "omg look, SC is doing so well in Korea, we gotta get on that shit." And then they brute-force their way into the industry while madly waving the bullshit "eSports" flag to the public.
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Although I find your rant to make a lot of sense, I don't see a mention of the rest of the world in this. In my opinion: fuck Korea, I couldn't care less about what goes on over there, since it doesn't affect me one bit. GSL? more like a Korean SC2 League since the friggen qualifiers were held in Seoul and if you couldn't hop on a plane to Korea tough luck. Instead of focusing on Korea like it's Mecca or something let's make e-Sports truly global so people like me (high schooler from the US) involved in this like any other kid can be involved in sports. Call Blizzard greedy, stupid, uninformed or whatever the hell you want to, but they're the ones who can actually make this happen.
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On September 03 2010 07:43 Lysis wrote:
Although I find your rant to make a lot of sense, I don't see a mention of the rest of the world in this. In my opinion: fuck Korea, I couldn't care less about what goes on over there, since it doesn't affect me one bit. GSL? more like a Korean SC2 League since the friggen qualifiers were held in Seoul and if you couldn't hop on a plane to Korea tough luck. Instead of focusing on Korea like it's Mecca or something let's make e-Sports truly global so people like me (high schooler from the US) involved in this like any other kid can be involved in sports. Call Blizzard greedy, stupid, uninformed or whatever the hell you want to, but they're the ones who can actually make this happen.
Do you really think an american sc2 player will have thousands of screaming fangirls for him? And even more male fans? The american culture just isn't made for esports. Thats why Blizz turns to korea and tries to shove it down their throats.
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On September 03 2010 07:42 Saracen wrote:
Great rant. I really, really try to find evidence that Blizzard cares about eSports. But it seems that every single decision they make is just one huge fuckup after another in that department.
Viewable match history? The ladder maps are a joke. The balance is a joke. How about implementing a decent map system? How about allowing users to contribute a decent map pool? Paying to watch a tournament? No one paid to watch Brood War. No one paid to watch the World Cup. What dumbass is going to pay to watch a SC2 tournament on imbalanced maps with imbalanced races? B.net is still a joke. Every day, Blizzard seems more and more like a bunch of foreign corporate suits flocking in to seize control of a dying industry, but totally disregarding its history, integrity, and pride. Like, one day, maybe in '07, some Blizzard guys were like "omg look, SC is doing so well in Korea, we gotta get on that shit." And then they brute-force their way into the industry while madly waving the bullshit "eSports" flag to the public.
That's pretty much it, yeah.
Bnet 0.2
No LAN
Segregated realms
No chatrooms for release
Attempting to squeeze out the BW scene to make room for SC2
Pay-only streams for GSL
It really is just trying to destroy the competition so you can push an inferior product out to the masses with the biggest profit margin possible. The sad thing is if they tried it the traditional way, didn't try to control and squeeze KeSPA out with those ridiculous demands and instead cooperated with the already existing esport scene in Korea, balanced or not, the bigger teams (SKT, KT, STX) would surely have added SC2 teams and OGN/MBCGame would give airtime to a SC2 proleague.
For all their talk of esports and wanting this to go global (while being in the driver seat like they are trying to be), Blizzard hasn't once (in over 10 years) tried to set up anything in the US or Europe. Too much effort, time and risk. They just saw what Korea had and wanted a piece of it.
Even if they get their way and kill off BW though, the Korean fans will hate them and I can't see the current sponsors showing too much appreciation either. By shitting on KeSPA they are shitting on some of Korea's biggest corporations (who hopefully won't scab later). I really hope this comes back to bite them in the ass -_-
[/rant]
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Loved reading that, and I really agree with everything.
It feels like Blizzard build this great core game in Starcraft II, but EVERYTHING around it be-it everything wrong with B.net or the way this whole GSL/Kespa etc stuff has exploded and has seemed to all go to hell.
I mean sure they've said "oh we'll add chat channels" and all this such, but where are they? They should have had them in the first place and as of yet nothing has changed and the fans of this game have got the big "F U!"
Another thing that drives me nuts is the fact that while Blizzard is so concerned about esports and Starcraft II in KOREA, all us foreigners who are having hundreds of tournaments and all get shit all from Blizzard. Why aren't they hosting their own $100/week tournament, why haven't they started doing this whole "Proleague" ladder. Yeah the game is only a month old but why should we have to wait? We already waited god damn 12 years for this game so why do we have to wait longer?
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On September 03 2010 07:43 Lysis wrote:
In my opinion: fuck Korea, I couldn't care less about what goes on over there, since it doesn't affect me one bit.
Good then don't care about this topic anymore. Because what happens in Korea will surely not affect the rest of us around the world. /sarcasm
You have no idea how much Blizzard tried to make SC2 successful in Korea, and how much they expected out of them. It has gotten to a point where Blizzard replaced the head representative in Korea (rumors state that it is partially due to SC2 launch's failure in Korea).
Instead of focusing on Korea like it's Mecca or something let's make e-Sports truly global so people like me (high schooler from the US) involved in this like any other kid can be involved in sports.
Great idea! That means we will see more quality matches, just like the ones from MLG! (ugh...)
You don't care about Korea. Great. Rest of the world does not care about you, personally, or many Americans when it comes down to e-Sports scene. There's a reason why Blizzard spent huge amounts of money, making illegal advertisements, and sneaking in SC2 posters in PC Bang.
South Korea's e-Sports scene is largest compared to anywhere else around the world, or at least largest compared to most countries. There's a reason why Blizzard wanted to succeed in Korea, and there's a reason why we want Korea scene to be fixed. Without Korea, we wouldn't have had SCBW and SC2 scene today. Without Korea, we wouldn't have balanced game like SCBW. And you're ranting because you think focusing on Korea is the wrong idea here...
Korea started the SC e-Sports scene. If it dies over there, the it will most likely die in many other places. Ignore the issue if you want, just because it's taking place in Korea. Because in the end, what happens in Korea won't stay there. Blizzard doesn't care about you and your fellow High School kids in US (including myself). They want more money out of places where SC scene is huge... such as South Korea.
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Good read, I completely agree with your point of view!
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On September 03 2010 07:43 Lysis wrote:
Although I find your rant to make a lot of sense, I don't see a mention of the rest of the world in this. In my opinion: fuck Korea, I couldn't care less about what goes on over there, since it doesn't affect me one bit. GSL? more like a Korean SC2 League since the friggen qualifiers were held in Seoul and if you couldn't hop on a plane to Korea tough luck. Instead of focusing on Korea like it's Mecca or something let's make e-Sports truly global so people like me (high schooler from the US) involved in this like any other kid can be involved in sports. Call Blizzard greedy, stupid, uninformed or whatever the hell you want to, but they're the ones who can actually make this happen.
This blog is about Korean Starleagues. If you've found this page by accident, you can try using your browser's "Back" button.
I'm always happy so see what our translators think. Good rant, although very depressing subject matter. "At least the leagues will run until this is settled in court" is the best news anywhere in sight, at least that I've been able to find. Dark times.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On September 03 2010 07:53 moopie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2010 07:42 Saracen wrote:
Great rant. I really, really try to find evidence that Blizzard cares about eSports. But it seems that every single decision they make is just one huge fuckup after another in that department.
Viewable match history? The ladder maps are a joke. The balance is a joke. How about implementing a decent map system? How about allowing users to contribute a decent map pool? Paying to watch a tournament? No one paid to watch Brood War. No one paid to watch the World Cup. What dumbass is going to pay to watch a SC2 tournament on imbalanced maps with imbalanced races? B.net is still a joke. Every day, Blizzard seems more and more like a bunch of foreign corporate suits flocking in to seize control of a dying industry, but totally disregarding its history, integrity, and pride. Like, one day, maybe in '07, some Blizzard guys were like "omg look, SC is doing so well in Korea, we gotta get on that shit." And then they brute-force their way into the industry while madly waving the bullshit "eSports" flag to the public. That's pretty much it, yeah. Bnet 0.2 No LAN Segregated realms No chatrooms for release Attempting to squeeze out the BW scene to make room for SC2 Pay-only streams for GSL It really is just trying to destroy the competition so you can push an inferior product out to the masses with the biggest profit margin possible. The sad thing is if they tried it the traditional way, didn't try to control and squeeze KeSPA out with those ridiculous demands and instead cooperated with the already existing esport scene in Korea, balanced or not, the bigger teams (SKT, KT, STX) would surely have added SC2 teams and OGN/MBCGame would give airtime to a SC2 proleague. For all their talk of esports and wanting this to go global (while being in the driver seat like they are trying to be), Blizzard hasn't once (in over 10 years) tried to set up anything in the US or Europe. Too much effort, time and risk. They just saw what Korea had and wanted a piece of it. Even if they get their way and kill off BW though, the Korean fans will hate them and I can't see the current sponsors showing too much appreciation either. By shitting on KeSPA they are shitting on some of Korea's biggest corporations (who hopefully won't scab later). I really hope this comes back to bite them in the ass -_- [/rant] The thing which annoys me more than anything else is that SC2 is such an amazing game that if they had just gone for a hands off approach then SC2 would have thrived and developed EXACTLY like they are trying to force it to right now.
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On September 03 2010 07:43 Lysis wrote:
In my opinion: fuck Korea, I couldn't care less about what goes on over there, since it doesn't affect me one bit.
Are you serious?
If SC2 doesnt get big in Korea, the game will die. Do you think any other country in the world gives a shit about e-sports?
Personally, I will only accept SC2 as BW successor if the Koreans start dominating it and a pro scene is created over there. If that doesnt happen, I feel like SC2 is lacking something.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
In our earnestness to embrace Sc2, and Blizzard's earnestness to sell it, we've lost sight as a community of what got us here in the first place. Sc2 should never have been viewed as a successor to BW, rather as an independent, related game that can and deserves to co-exist peacefully with it's older brother.
Now, I'd love it personally if there were less similarities between the games to drive home that point, but it doesn't really matter too much, I think the games are different enough to make watching both interesting; somewhat like Mens and Womens tennis, or college and pro football in the US.
I think what Blizzard doesn't understand, and what the community is just waking up to understanding, is that if BW is killed or forced to die a premature death, then Sc2 simply won't survive, at the very least because of the ill-will and fragmentation of the community caused by the break-up. BW is still growing, and Sc2 is exploding as one might expect, and the games can only grow in tandem with each other. BW had to fight extremely hard to gain attention and respect, and if it's shuttled out after ten years, then the consequences for the community and for the industry are obvious. No kid will want to become a pro in a game with only a four, three, two year lifespan. No business person will want to help grow that business. And this can only happen in Korea, and possibly China, but who knows? If esports loses it's foothold in korea, then it's the end not only for BW, but for Sc2, and maybe a disastrous blow to the WCG as well. The GSL is great and everything, but GOM is forgetting a crucial lesson of Tv programming; if you want a new show to take off, put it after a similar popular show. Similarly, GSL coming on after proleague would be an awesome way to integrate a BW audience to Sc2. These people aren't programmed to turn on their tv's at exactly 13:00 KST on Fridays. If proleague isn't on, they won't tune in. BW and Sc2 must compliment each other. Instead, because of a cohort of idiots, they're poised to kill each other.
A house divided against itself cannot stand. These games must grow and work in tandem. These games are brothers, not father and son. The new posters on these forums should know this. It's time Sc2 began caring about what happened with BW, and the BW fans began to care about Sc2, not necessarily as games, but as industries.
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They will fix it all by putting a lot of money into price pools.
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EPT
