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On July 13 2010 14:08 Jumperer wrote:
what facing situation? You mean run away to college and hope the sister and his mom doesn't die before he gets out? If I was Ypang I would've fucking laid and beat the fuck out my that motherfucking piece of shit dad when he first lay his hand on my mom or my sister a long time ago. And like the guy above said, don't underestimate social workers. I happen to be a psychology major and I happen to know that they are quite competent in dealing with problems like child abuse.
You on the other hand doesn't really know what the hell is going on. You learned everything from your own experience and assume that it's the best possible way because you don't know any better. I'm sorry but your fastest build order is useless against my bisu build.
I'm not sure what's more insulting, the fact that you're taking it lightly as so far as to making poor Starcraft metaphors to a serious situation or the fact that you're attempting to pull your "psych major" (which ... isn't even really apt) over me as if I'm not accomplished in academia.
On July 13 2010 14:13 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2010 14:11 KissBlade wrote:On July 13 2010 14:08 Jumperer wrote:
what facing situation? You mean run away to college and hope the sister and his mom doesn't die before he gets out? If I was Ypang I would've fucking laid and beat the fuck out my that motherfucking piece of shit dad when he first lay his hand on my mom or my sister a long time ago. And like the guy above said, don't underestimate social workers. I happen to be a psychology major and I happen to know that they are quite competent in dealing with problems like child abuse.
You on the other hand doesn't really know what the hell is going on. You learned everything from your own experience and assume that it's the best possible way because you don't know any better. I'm sorry but your fastest build order is useless against my bisu build. I'm not sure what's more insulting, the fact that you're taking it lightly as so far as to making poor Starcraft metaphors to a serious situation or the fact that you're attempting to pull your "psych major" (which ... isn't even really apt) over me as if I'm not accomplished in academia. How about addressing the actual points of his post?
That would be playing a broken record. If he didn't desire to read my posts the first time, he wont' read them if I reposted.
Orome, I completely agree with what you mean. Don't get me wrong, as I've already stated and I thought I was pretty clear was that I don't justify the game as it is. In fact, I thought my feelings about the actual matter was clear when I called it backwards and anachronistic.
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OP Im very sorry for the social situation you are in right now. As an asian american myself my family has had a lot of struggles while moving around the country. My own father is very verbally abusive at times and I am fortunate that he never lays a hand on my mother or siblings. He gets mad and throws things around and does things of that nature. However, I hope you understand how important you are to your sisters well-being. I know that as a younger brother my older siblings were crucial in keeping my emotionally intact. I hope your family finds peace soon and you are able to resolve most of your issues. My heart goes out to you and your family.
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On July 13 2010 14:11 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2010 14:08 Jumperer wrote:
what facing situation? You mean run away to college and hope the sister and his mom doesn't die before he gets out? If I was Ypang I would've fucking laid and beat the fuck out my that motherfucking piece of shit dad when he first lay his hand on my mom or my sister a long time ago. And like the guy above said, don't underestimate social workers. I happen to be a psychology major and I happen to know that they are quite competent in dealing with problems like child abuse.
You on the other hand doesn't really know what the hell is going on. You learned everything from your own experience and assume that it's the best possible way because you don't know any better. I'm sorry but your fastest build order is useless against my bisu build. I'm not sure what's more insulting, the fact that you're taking it lightly as so far as to making poor Starcraft metaphors to a serious situation or the fact that you're attempting to pull your "psych major" (which ... isn't even really apt) over me as if I'm not accomplished in academia.
How about addressing the actual points of his post?
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This is absolutely an unhealthy situation. It may not require child protective services, but it does warrant counseling for one or many of you.
If you are going to college, they often have counselors you can use for free.
Your father's stress is understandable, these are really hard times. The way he is handling his stress is NOT acceptable. While you are in college, you should do your best to shield your sister and stay close to her.
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On July 13 2010 14:09 Orome wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2010 13:45 koreasilver wrote:On July 13 2010 13:29 Orome wrote:On July 13 2010 13:08 koreasilver wrote:
It's obviously easy to see that it is wrong. But it is hard to understand exactly why it is like so and what can be done about it. In this way KissBlade is correct. Obviously it is wrong by all means, but there are just some things that cannot be approached in the same way. There are some very deep seated issues in contemporary Asian culture that must be fixed in its own way and fashion. It must be approached from its own angle, not some kind of absolute "right". The tendency for Westerners to do this is a plague in of itself, as they are too blindsighted by their own ethnocentrism. It is so for all cultures to a degree, but you must understand that there are some things that you will never fully understand as you have never experienced it first hand to truly understand the nuances of the culture that are ingrained into the most fundamental aspects of the individuals. This isn't about right or wrong in any way, it's about protecting a minor that's being physically and emotionally abused. You can argue about what the most appropriate course of action is, but to say that 'this is asian culture' and he and his sister have no choice but to tough it out isn't showing great understanding, it's fucking horrible. You're saying he should come to terms with his little sister being abused. (I actually regret suggesting that he go to the authorities, that was the typical reaction of an outsider who doesn't know any of the details and therefore can't suggest a more subtle solution. The OP alone can judge what the most appropriate course of action is, but it's out of the question that he has to do something.) I've told him to focus on himself and his sister. All my criticism comes from what you people are telling him to do about his mom and his dad, not his sister. If you've actually really read into my few posts in this thread then you would have known so, that you are completely misreading whatever I am writing, and that your accusations are baseless. You are making an argument constructed completely upon emotion without any actual experience or subtle understanding, and this is why your "advice" doesn't hold much value in this situation. There's a misunderstanding here, I wasn't accusing you of anything. The 'You' in 'You're saying he should come to terms with his little sister being abused' was supposed to be a neutral you, like 'One would be saying that...' Badly phrased, sorry about that. If anyone it was directed as KissBlade, but he's since made his position understandable as well. That I'm making an argument constructed on emotion is true, but it's not the downfall of it because my argument remains very general, based on very basic values. In essence, all I'm saying is: girl gets abused, girl getting abused is bad, he's the one who can help her ---> he has to do something about it! I would have hoped we could all agree on that.
He obviously needs to do something about it, but it must be the structure itself that must be targeted, not what is built upon it. As to the when and how I'm not sure, as I don't know enough about his family. But it is inevitable that to solve the systematic issue he and his sister will have to topple what is built upon it, which will be their father. It must be a symbolical patricide and their mother will also be torn down if she herself refuses to face the fundamental wrong and fails to compose the courage to revolt.
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On July 13 2010 14:20 Jumperer wrote:
dodge more.
Your build order of -> do well in school -> hope dad doesnt go insane and everyone...... is simplistic and any monkey could've come up with the idea. How the fuck can someone deal with the guilt of leaving 2 people behind against a fucked up monster. How do you expect anyone to do well in school under that condition? Kissblade, Just because you choose to type in bigger words doesn't mean that your argument is actually any better.
I believe that my BO of telling the people at school is better and yield immediate result. It covers all possibilities and even if it fails(less than 0.0000000001% chance) Ypang's balls would grow infinitely and he would no longer be a typical asian nerd who runs away from all problem and try to fix everything by doing well in school, such as yourself.
...
First off, as I already stated again. Stop using Starcraft metaphors for your posts. It's demeaning to the situation. Secondly, had you read my posts, I've never stated "leaving 2 people behind". In fact, I've advocated that he get more involved with his family and especially do so by reaching out to his dad. If anything, YOU were the one who advocated running away and crashing at friends which I said was an awful idea. I apologize if my words seem "bigger" to you so how about I toss you one and just flat out call you a misanthrope?
^Koreasilver, I think that the time when he can actually topple the system is when he gets seen as the "family head" which will only occur when he gets to the level where his father grants him that. Often enough, the easiest one is to have a son. (for obvious reasons) My advice was simply one that didn't require such ... extreme measures?
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Sorry, I didn't put into consideration that you were Asian when I made my first post. Obviously this changes a lot of things.
To sum things up to the white folks here, in Chinese culture, self-actualization is attained through the success of the children. A good life is measured by how successful your children are, and whether or not they are setting up a positive future for their children. When passing, a Chinese father wants to know that his bloodline will be carried on well. This belief in the Chinese culture is even stronger than Western religious beliefs. To deny a father the success of his child is to deny the meaning of his existence almost. This is why Chinese parents go so far to ensure that their children do well in school, no matter what it takes. In American-Asian culture, although many parents wish to adopt a more Western method in raising their children, some parents still strictly follow Asian methods.
The best, and only thing you can do is study your hardest, and take whatever punishment your father can dish out. The same goes with your sister. Do not do or say anything that goes against his word. That will greatly displease your father and cause more trouble for yourself as well. Your father is ultimately doing this for your own good, even though it's clearly not working that well. Your job is to make him believe that it's working. Get good grades, be successful, that's all you can really do. Years down the road, you will not regret the way you were brought up. It's not just your grades that will be good, it will be your entire personality. Children who were under strict discipline will grow up to be very disciplined and sophisticated. Other children will grow up naive and face reality in college and work. At that time it's too late. When I was young, I was beaten heavily as well, with slippers, blows to the head, etc. I do not regret a single bit of it. Even though the intention was the raise my school grades, it also crafted a different person out of me. Nowadays, I can look down upon all those college students who go drinking and partying all the time and then fail their courses. That's all thanks to how I was raised.
One thing you should not even consider doing is talking to a counselor or calling child protection. It doesn't matter how good these services are, to a Chinese father, these people are nothing more than clowns. By calling them, you are essentially telling your father that you are completely ignorant and naive. A father putting his sweat and blood into raising a successful child and then having the child think he's just being an abusive father is a nightmare to him. That's one of the worst things you can do in a Chinese family, and out of the several times I've seen it happen, it never ends pretty. If you or your sister requires it, you can go see a counselor on your own without your father, but I advise against it. Western counselors will not tell you to take in punishment, grit your teeth, and study your ass off; that's simply against their textbook. The only person that can do that is yourself.
From now on, push yourself to do better in school. When your father gets angry, just take it like it's simple routine. Eventually, yelling and beating will be nothing more than a waste of time. In the future, you will not regret the better grades that you will attain, nor will you regret the better person that you will become. This is something that every Chinese child goes through, and not a single one regrets it.
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On July 13 2010 14:07 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2010 13:58 Orome wrote:On July 13 2010 13:40 KissBlade wrote:On July 13 2010 13:29 Orome wrote:On July 13 2010 13:08 koreasilver wrote:
It's obviously easy to see that it is wrong. But it is hard to understand exactly why it is like so and what can be done about it. In this way KissBlade is correct. Obviously it is wrong by all means, but there are just some things that cannot be approached in the same way. There are some very deep seated issues in contemporary Asian culture that must be fixed in its own way and fashion. It must be approached from its own angle, not some kind of absolute "right". The tendency for Westerners to do this is a plague in of itself, as they are too blindsighted by their own ethnocentrism. It is so for all cultures to a degree, but you must understand that there are some things that you will never fully understand as you have never experienced it first hand to truly understand the nuances of the culture that are ingrained into the most fundamental aspects of the individuals. This isn't about right or wrong in any way, it's about protecting a minor that's being physically and emotionally abused. You can argue about what the most appropriate course of action is, but to say that 'this is asian culture' and he and his sister have no choice but to tough it out isn't showing great understanding, it's fucking horrible. You're saying he should come to terms with his little sister being abused. (I actually regret suggesting that he go to the authorities, that was the typical reaction of an outsider who doesn't know any of the details and therefore can't suggest a more subtle solution. The OP alone can judge what the most appropriate course of action is, but it's out of the question that he has to do something.) It's actually not "Asian culture". It's "Asian American immigration culture". China for example, pampers the crap out of their kids now because of more money one child policy, etc. What you're NOT understanding is that "toughing it out" means just doing well in school, talking out with his parents, etc. He got it, you won't get it because you haven't lived through this. What the standard Western proposal is, isn't going to work because frankly they're not equipped for the same situation. In fact, I will tell you a very personal story. I've tried a lot of these things that I'm railing against today. My cousin has tried those things. A family friend tried the thing I suggested doing. One of the three is very successful in life while another one realized what he was taught by his Western peers didn't work because it was dealing with ultimately, a different environment, and now is on a better track for that realization. The third keeps at it and is still coming at odds with his parents. Guess which is which? Orome, I know your posts have always meant well but you are twisting words and meanings because some things don't come across clearly through simple text on the screen. I know how frustrating it can be to argue with someone who has no first-hand experience of something and doesn't realize he's wrong, but I just have a very hard time believing that all it takes for ypang's family to function is for him and his sister to do well in school (and the solution is a very imperfect one in any case). You really think his father would start treating his mother decently if his children were doing better academically? What I think is not 100% definite. It is obviously anecdotal. However, it is from what I feel a larger pool of experience than most others in their thread. Furthermore, a lot of advice that I'm against are the more antagonistic ones because think about it from a logical standpoint at how this situation is. Create the type of mindset the family members have. Does some of these solutions not strike you as trying to wash out fire with oil?
Possibly, I don't have enough experience on the subject to judge concrete measures accurately.
However, these solutions are all attempts to solve the problem. They may be unsuitable for this particular scenario but at least their aim is to make sure his sister can grow up in a healthy environment.
Your solution strikes me as the 'lay down and take it' road, try to please your father (who apparently can't treat you decently until you're a great student), keep quiet and try to escape with as little damage as possible. If no other solution will work and it will stop the abuse it might be the most prudent way to go, but I'm not entirely convinced outside help is guaranteed to be ineffective and I'm even less convinced that it's going to stop his father's abuse of his sister.
In the end, my approach to this situation is this: the abuse has to stop. If it can be stopped simply by getting good grades and ypang thinks this is the best way to go, alright. But if it doesn't stop, or if it only stops as long as each grade's an A, ypang has to do something about it. What he should do, he can judge best himself, but if he needs to go to somewhat more extremes measures to keep his sister safe... well, so be it.
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I dont think sucking up to his dad and giving him what he wants will be "reaching out". It will just demand greater expectations and even set standards that even his sister will then have to reach, which she is already doing poorly in school. Imo i think he should focus more on his little sister then himself. He already mentioned, "Im not going to be like this when i have kids". But even as an adult, he hasnt spoken to his father about his little sister. And as mentioned earlier, depending on his father's answers and beliefs of what he thinks he is doing right, OP should decide and take the proper course action.
The majority of the people on this thread are replying in hopes of his little sister and her upbringing. She already sounds very dependant of her brother. "Always bothering him and in good mood or w/e word OP used, (dont feel like searching for it) around him." She prolly has seen his somewhat rebellious side and sees her brother to be somewhat in the same position as her as well as maybe even a protective figure.. craving for the attention from him that she needs as a child cuz her parents arent giving it to her.
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You don't need to be acknowledged as the new patriarch by the patriarch in order to topple the reigning head. This is purely a matter of the self and the personal strength. If we were to consider ourselves powerless until we are acknowledged as powerful by the powerful then we will always be perpetually powerless - as we derive our power from power granted, not power created. The power to restructure comes from the self, not from the structure that we must deconstruct. Having a son doesn't topple the system. You are merely creating your own system that is still subject to the old; this is running away, which you claimed to have been arguing against. This also ignores his sister, to whom he is primarily responsible for, and who is a concern above his parents.
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On July 13 2010 14:23 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2010 14:09 Orome wrote:On July 13 2010 13:45 koreasilver wrote:On July 13 2010 13:29 Orome wrote:On July 13 2010 13:08 koreasilver wrote:
It's obviously easy to see that it is wrong. But it is hard to understand exactly why it is like so and what can be done about it. In this way KissBlade is correct. Obviously it is wrong by all means, but there are just some things that cannot be approached in the same way. There are some very deep seated issues in contemporary Asian culture that must be fixed in its own way and fashion. It must be approached from its own angle, not some kind of absolute "right". The tendency for Westerners to do this is a plague in of itself, as they are too blindsighted by their own ethnocentrism. It is so for all cultures to a degree, but you must understand that there are some things that you will never fully understand as you have never experienced it first hand to truly understand the nuances of the culture that are ingrained into the most fundamental aspects of the individuals. This isn't about right or wrong in any way, it's about protecting a minor that's being physically and emotionally abused. You can argue about what the most appropriate course of action is, but to say that 'this is asian culture' and he and his sister have no choice but to tough it out isn't showing great understanding, it's fucking horrible. You're saying he should come to terms with his little sister being abused. (I actually regret suggesting that he go to the authorities, that was the typical reaction of an outsider who doesn't know any of the details and therefore can't suggest a more subtle solution. The OP alone can judge what the most appropriate course of action is, but it's out of the question that he has to do something.) I've told him to focus on himself and his sister. All my criticism comes from what you people are telling him to do about his mom and his dad, not his sister. If you've actually really read into my few posts in this thread then you would have known so, that you are completely misreading whatever I am writing, and that your accusations are baseless. You are making an argument constructed completely upon emotion without any actual experience or subtle understanding, and this is why your "advice" doesn't hold much value in this situation. There's a misunderstanding here, I wasn't accusing you of anything. The 'You' in 'You're saying he should come to terms with his little sister being abused' was supposed to be a neutral you, like 'One would be saying that...' Badly phrased, sorry about that. If anyone it was directed as KissBlade, but he's since made his position understandable as well. That I'm making an argument constructed on emotion is true, but it's not the downfall of it because my argument remains very general, based on very basic values. In essence, all I'm saying is: girl gets abused, girl getting abused is bad, he's the one who can help her ---> he has to do something about it! I would have hoped we could all agree on that. He obviously needs to do something about it, but it must be the structure itself that must be targeted, not what is built upon it. As to the when and how I'm not sure, as I don't know enough about his family. But it is inevitable that to solve the systematic issue he and his sister will have to topple what is built upon it, which will be their father. It must be a symbolical patricide and their mother will also be torn down if she herself refuses to face the fundamental wrong and fails to compose the courage to revolt.
and what do you do in the meantime while you wait for the 'when'?
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On July 13 2010 14:36 Orome wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2010 14:07 KissBlade wrote:On July 13 2010 13:58 Orome wrote:On July 13 2010 13:40 KissBlade wrote:On July 13 2010 13:29 Orome wrote:On July 13 2010 13:08 koreasilver wrote:
It's obviously easy to see that it is wrong. But it is hard to understand exactly why it is like so and what can be done about it. In this way KissBlade is correct. Obviously it is wrong by all means, but there are just some things that cannot be approached in the same way. There are some very deep seated issues in contemporary Asian culture that must be fixed in its own way and fashion. It must be approached from its own angle, not some kind of absolute "right". The tendency for Westerners to do this is a plague in of itself, as they are too blindsighted by their own ethnocentrism. It is so for all cultures to a degree, but you must understand that there are some things that you will never fully understand as you have never experienced it first hand to truly understand the nuances of the culture that are ingrained into the most fundamental aspects of the individuals. This isn't about right or wrong in any way, it's about protecting a minor that's being physically and emotionally abused. You can argue about what the most appropriate course of action is, but to say that 'this is asian culture' and he and his sister have no choice but to tough it out isn't showing great understanding, it's fucking horrible. You're saying he should come to terms with his little sister being abused. (I actually regret suggesting that he go to the authorities, that was the typical reaction of an outsider who doesn't know any of the details and therefore can't suggest a more subtle solution. The OP alone can judge what the most appropriate course of action is, but it's out of the question that he has to do something.) It's actually not "Asian culture". It's "Asian American immigration culture". China for example, pampers the crap out of their kids now because of more money one child policy, etc. What you're NOT understanding is that "toughing it out" means just doing well in school, talking out with his parents, etc. He got it, you won't get it because you haven't lived through this. What the standard Western proposal is, isn't going to work because frankly they're not equipped for the same situation. In fact, I will tell you a very personal story. I've tried a lot of these things that I'm railing against today. My cousin has tried those things. A family friend tried the thing I suggested doing. One of the three is very successful in life while another one realized what he was taught by his Western peers didn't work because it was dealing with ultimately, a different environment, and now is on a better track for that realization. The third keeps at it and is still coming at odds with his parents. Guess which is which? Orome, I know your posts have always meant well but you are twisting words and meanings because some things don't come across clearly through simple text on the screen. I know how frustrating it can be to argue with someone who has no first-hand experience of something and doesn't realize he's wrong, but I just have a very hard time believing that all it takes for ypang's family to function is for him and his sister to do well in school (and the solution is a very imperfect one in any case). You really think his father would start treating his mother decently if his children were doing better academically? What I think is not 100% definite. It is obviously anecdotal. However, it is from what I feel a larger pool of experience than most others in their thread. Furthermore, a lot of advice that I'm against are the more antagonistic ones because think about it from a logical standpoint at how this situation is. Create the type of mindset the family members have. Does some of these solutions not strike you as trying to wash out fire with oil? Possibly, I don't have enough experience on the subject to judge concrete measures accurately. However, these solutions are all attempts to solve the problem. They may be unsuitable for this particular scenario but at least their aim is to make sure his sister can grow up in a healthy environment. Your solution strikes me as the 'lay down and take it' road, try to please your father (who apparently can't treat you decently until you're a great student), keep quiet and try to escape with as little damage as possible. If no other solution will work and it will stop the abuse it might be the most prudent way to go, but I'm not entirely convinced outside help is guaranteed to be ineffective and I'm even less convinced that it's going to stop his father's abuse of his sister. In the end, my approach to this situation is this: the abuse has to stop. If it can be stopped simply by getting good grades and ypang thinks this is the best way to go, alright. But if it doesn't stop, or if it only stops as long as each grade's an A, ypang has to do something about it. What he should do, he can judge best himself, but if he needs to go to somewhat more extremes measures to keep his sister safe... well, so be it.
You misinterpret my argument. He can easily confront his parents but he has to express it in a term his parents will listen to. Otherwise, his parents will just dismiss it again and that obviously wouldn't get anywhere. What getting great grades will ultimately do is give him more clout with his father, which is what he needs to do to get across to him.
PS. Chairman Ray, you're pretty awful at this satire thing =\.
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On July 13 2010 14:42 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2010 14:36 Orome wrote:On July 13 2010 14:07 KissBlade wrote:On July 13 2010 13:58 Orome wrote:On July 13 2010 13:40 KissBlade wrote:On July 13 2010 13:29 Orome wrote:On July 13 2010 13:08 koreasilver wrote:
It's obviously easy to see that it is wrong. But it is hard to understand exactly why it is like so and what can be done about it. In this way KissBlade is correct. Obviously it is wrong by all means, but there are just some things that cannot be approached in the same way. There are some very deep seated issues in contemporary Asian culture that must be fixed in its own way and fashion. It must be approached from its own angle, not some kind of absolute "right". The tendency for Westerners to do this is a plague in of itself, as they are too blindsighted by their own ethnocentrism. It is so for all cultures to a degree, but you must understand that there are some things that you will never fully understand as you have never experienced it first hand to truly understand the nuances of the culture that are ingrained into the most fundamental aspects of the individuals. This isn't about right or wrong in any way, it's about protecting a minor that's being physically and emotionally abused. You can argue about what the most appropriate course of action is, but to say that 'this is asian culture' and he and his sister have no choice but to tough it out isn't showing great understanding, it's fucking horrible. You're saying he should come to terms with his little sister being abused. (I actually regret suggesting that he go to the authorities, that was the typical reaction of an outsider who doesn't know any of the details and therefore can't suggest a more subtle solution. The OP alone can judge what the most appropriate course of action is, but it's out of the question that he has to do something.) It's actually not "Asian culture". It's "Asian American immigration culture". China for example, pampers the crap out of their kids now because of more money one child policy, etc. What you're NOT understanding is that "toughing it out" means just doing well in school, talking out with his parents, etc. He got it, you won't get it because you haven't lived through this. What the standard Western proposal is, isn't going to work because frankly they're not equipped for the same situation. In fact, I will tell you a very personal story. I've tried a lot of these things that I'm railing against today. My cousin has tried those things. A family friend tried the thing I suggested doing. One of the three is very successful in life while another one realized what he was taught by his Western peers didn't work because it was dealing with ultimately, a different environment, and now is on a better track for that realization. The third keeps at it and is still coming at odds with his parents. Guess which is which? Orome, I know your posts have always meant well but you are twisting words and meanings because some things don't come across clearly through simple text on the screen. I know how frustrating it can be to argue with someone who has no first-hand experience of something and doesn't realize he's wrong, but I just have a very hard time believing that all it takes for ypang's family to function is for him and his sister to do well in school (and the solution is a very imperfect one in any case). You really think his father would start treating his mother decently if his children were doing better academically? What I think is not 100% definite. It is obviously anecdotal. However, it is from what I feel a larger pool of experience than most others in their thread. Furthermore, a lot of advice that I'm against are the more antagonistic ones because think about it from a logical standpoint at how this situation is. Create the type of mindset the family members have. Does some of these solutions not strike you as trying to wash out fire with oil? Possibly, I don't have enough experience on the subject to judge concrete measures accurately. However, these solutions are all attempts to solve the problem. They may be unsuitable for this particular scenario but at least their aim is to make sure his sister can grow up in a healthy environment. Your solution strikes me as the 'lay down and take it' road, try to please your father (who apparently can't treat you decently until you're a great student), keep quiet and try to escape with as little damage as possible. If no other solution will work and it will stop the abuse it might be the most prudent way to go, but I'm not entirely convinced outside help is guaranteed to be ineffective and I'm even less convinced that it's going to stop his father's abuse of his sister. In the end, my approach to this situation is this: the abuse has to stop. If it can be stopped simply by getting good grades and ypang thinks this is the best way to go, alright. But if it doesn't stop, or if it only stops as long as each grade's an A, ypang has to do something about it. What he should do, he can judge best himself, but if he needs to go to somewhat more extremes measures to keep his sister safe... well, so be it. You misinterpret my argument. He can easily confront his parents but he has to express it in a term his parents will listen to. Otherwise, his parents will just dismiss it again and that obviously wouldn't get anywhere. What getting great grades will ultimately do is give him more clout with his father, which is what he needs to do to get across to him.
Don't mean to be annoying here, but I really want that crystal ball you bought. Was it on sale?
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United States10774 Posts
Jumperer, it would be indeed nice if these "professionals at his college" could do everything you listed and solve all the problems. Is it actually realistic? I am not sure. It seems pretty idealistic and naive. I am not going to act like I know what I am talking about because I'm completely clueless when it comes to things like this, but who are these college professionals that do this?
Also, how do you expect people to take you seriously when you are making immature StarCraft jokes/metaphors in every post? Is it supposed to be funny?
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On July 13 2010 14:40 Orome wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2010 14:23 koreasilver wrote:On July 13 2010 14:09 Orome wrote:On July 13 2010 13:45 koreasilver wrote:On July 13 2010 13:29 Orome wrote:On July 13 2010 13:08 koreasilver wrote:
It's obviously easy to see that it is wrong. But it is hard to understand exactly why it is like so and what can be done about it. In this way KissBlade is correct. Obviously it is wrong by all means, but there are just some things that cannot be approached in the same way. There are some very deep seated issues in contemporary Asian culture that must be fixed in its own way and fashion. It must be approached from its own angle, not some kind of absolute "right". The tendency for Westerners to do this is a plague in of itself, as they are too blindsighted by their own ethnocentrism. It is so for all cultures to a degree, but you must understand that there are some things that you will never fully understand as you have never experienced it first hand to truly understand the nuances of the culture that are ingrained into the most fundamental aspects of the individuals. This isn't about right or wrong in any way, it's about protecting a minor that's being physically and emotionally abused. You can argue about what the most appropriate course of action is, but to say that 'this is asian culture' and he and his sister have no choice but to tough it out isn't showing great understanding, it's fucking horrible. You're saying he should come to terms with his little sister being abused. (I actually regret suggesting that he go to the authorities, that was the typical reaction of an outsider who doesn't know any of the details and therefore can't suggest a more subtle solution. The OP alone can judge what the most appropriate course of action is, but it's out of the question that he has to do something.) I've told him to focus on himself and his sister. All my criticism comes from what you people are telling him to do about his mom and his dad, not his sister. If you've actually really read into my few posts in this thread then you would have known so, that you are completely misreading whatever I am writing, and that your accusations are baseless. You are making an argument constructed completely upon emotion without any actual experience or subtle understanding, and this is why your "advice" doesn't hold much value in this situation. There's a misunderstanding here, I wasn't accusing you of anything. The 'You' in 'You're saying he should come to terms with his little sister being abused' was supposed to be a neutral you, like 'One would be saying that...' Badly phrased, sorry about that. If anyone it was directed as KissBlade, but he's since made his position understandable as well. That I'm making an argument constructed on emotion is true, but it's not the downfall of it because my argument remains very general, based on very basic values. In essence, all I'm saying is: girl gets abused, girl getting abused is bad, he's the one who can help her ---> he has to do something about it! I would have hoped we could all agree on that. He obviously needs to do something about it, but it must be the structure itself that must be targeted, not what is built upon it. As to the when and how I'm not sure, as I don't know enough about his family. But it is inevitable that to solve the systematic issue he and his sister will have to topple what is built upon it, which will be their father. It must be a symbolical patricide and their mother will also be torn down if she herself refuses to face the fundamental wrong and fails to compose the courage to revolt. and what do you do in the meantime while you wait for the 'when'?
You prepare whatever you must so that the when can ever be. The when can exist only because you have prepared the stepping stones to the moment for the moment. He needs to prepare himself and his sister accordingly so that a moment can become the when and the how already preordained by the self - so that he may be able to act with a clear goal, a clear plan, and no hesitation.
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Obviously his dad is very extreme, even for an Asian parent. Nonetheless, any of these "western" solutions will not work -- it is like fitting a square into a round hole. Only, resort to it when your life is actually threatened (or your sister's)
That's all I can suggest.
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On July 13 2010 14:42 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2010 14:36 Orome wrote:On July 13 2010 14:07 KissBlade wrote:On July 13 2010 13:58 Orome wrote:On July 13 2010 13:40 KissBlade wrote:On July 13 2010 13:29 Orome wrote:On July 13 2010 13:08 koreasilver wrote:
It's obviously easy to see that it is wrong. But it is hard to understand exactly why it is like so and what can be done about it. In this way KissBlade is correct. Obviously it is wrong by all means, but there are just some things that cannot be approached in the same way. There are some very deep seated issues in contemporary Asian culture that must be fixed in its own way and fashion. It must be approached from its own angle, not some kind of absolute "right". The tendency for Westerners to do this is a plague in of itself, as they are too blindsighted by their own ethnocentrism. It is so for all cultures to a degree, but you must understand that there are some things that you will never fully understand as you have never experienced it first hand to truly understand the nuances of the culture that are ingrained into the most fundamental aspects of the individuals. This isn't about right or wrong in any way, it's about protecting a minor that's being physically and emotionally abused. You can argue about what the most appropriate course of action is, but to say that 'this is asian culture' and he and his sister have no choice but to tough it out isn't showing great understanding, it's fucking horrible. You're saying he should come to terms with his little sister being abused. (I actually regret suggesting that he go to the authorities, that was the typical reaction of an outsider who doesn't know any of the details and therefore can't suggest a more subtle solution. The OP alone can judge what the most appropriate course of action is, but it's out of the question that he has to do something.) It's actually not "Asian culture". It's "Asian American immigration culture". China for example, pampers the crap out of their kids now because of more money one child policy, etc. What you're NOT understanding is that "toughing it out" means just doing well in school, talking out with his parents, etc. He got it, you won't get it because you haven't lived through this. What the standard Western proposal is, isn't going to work because frankly they're not equipped for the same situation. In fact, I will tell you a very personal story. I've tried a lot of these things that I'm railing against today. My cousin has tried those things. A family friend tried the thing I suggested doing. One of the three is very successful in life while another one realized what he was taught by his Western peers didn't work because it was dealing with ultimately, a different environment, and now is on a better track for that realization. The third keeps at it and is still coming at odds with his parents. Guess which is which? Orome, I know your posts have always meant well but you are twisting words and meanings because some things don't come across clearly through simple text on the screen. I know how frustrating it can be to argue with someone who has no first-hand experience of something and doesn't realize he's wrong, but I just have a very hard time believing that all it takes for ypang's family to function is for him and his sister to do well in school (and the solution is a very imperfect one in any case). You really think his father would start treating his mother decently if his children were doing better academically? What I think is not 100% definite. It is obviously anecdotal. However, it is from what I feel a larger pool of experience than most others in their thread. Furthermore, a lot of advice that I'm against are the more antagonistic ones because think about it from a logical standpoint at how this situation is. Create the type of mindset the family members have. Does some of these solutions not strike you as trying to wash out fire with oil? Possibly, I don't have enough experience on the subject to judge concrete measures accurately. However, these solutions are all attempts to solve the problem. They may be unsuitable for this particular scenario but at least their aim is to make sure his sister can grow up in a healthy environment. Your solution strikes me as the 'lay down and take it' road, try to please your father (who apparently can't treat you decently until you're a great student), keep quiet and try to escape with as little damage as possible. If no other solution will work and it will stop the abuse it might be the most prudent way to go, but I'm not entirely convinced outside help is guaranteed to be ineffective and I'm even less convinced that it's going to stop his father's abuse of his sister. In the end, my approach to this situation is this: the abuse has to stop. If it can be stopped simply by getting good grades and ypang thinks this is the best way to go, alright. But if it doesn't stop, or if it only stops as long as each grade's an A, ypang has to do something about it. What he should do, he can judge best himself, but if he needs to go to somewhat more extremes measures to keep his sister safe... well, so be it. You misinterpret my argument. He can easily confront his parents but he has to express it in a term his parents will listen to. Otherwise, his parents will just dismiss it again and that obviously wouldn't get anywhere. What getting great grades will ultimately do is give him more clout with his father, which is what he needs to do to get across to him. PS. Chairman Ray, you're pretty awful at this satire thing =\.
Well a few pages back you said:
On July 13 2010 13:04 KissBlade wrote:
What I said is PC nonsense is a) running away from home, washing dishes b) calling child services c) confronting his dad. NONE of these will fix anything. If anything it will make it far fucking worse because what happens if his dad ultimately realizes none of what he's doing is worth it? He quits his job and will you donate anything beyond "helpful advice" to "Help Ypang's family out"?
So I feel somewhat justified in 'misinterpreting' your argument. :p
Anyway, this is petty 'but back then you said something else' and it doesn't really matter, but I do think you presented good grades as the solution to the problem so far and not the means to get more clout so talking to his father will have a bigger chance of success.
I don't have anything I disagree with in this last post anymore, I guess we can wrap up this argument. 
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EPT
