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On August 16 2019 10:49 GreenHorizons wrote:I think when I'm arguing with the two of you in particular it's unlikely to end anywhere productive so I'll just answer what I thought was implied by my general political standing and said more or less explicitly when asked ("remove the plank") which is to say mind their business/get our own house in order and certainly don't let Trump be considered a legitimate messenger of "peace" or human rights.
If you had said that, don't you think this interaction, this exchange, wouldn't have taken place? But you didn't. Not explicitly. You brought up some past comparison. Which wasn't necessary for that time in the discussion. Would you agree? We didn't even get to dig into trump's response to Israel banning two congresswomen from visiting. Nor did we talk about the stock market jittering on concerns of a recession. We stopped to discuss you.
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On August 16 2019 10:59 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2019 10:49 GreenHorizons wrote:I think when I'm arguing with the two of you in particular it's unlikely to end anywhere productive so I'll just answer you could have agreed or suggested something else trump could have said. what I thought was implied by my general political standing and said more or less explicitly when asked ("remove the plank") which is to say mind their business/get our own house in order and certainly don't let Trump be considered a legitimate messenger of "peace" or human rights. If you had said that, don't you think this interaction, this exchange, wouldn't have taken place? But you didn't. Not explicitly. You brought up some past comparison. Which wasn't necessary for that time in the discussion. Would you agree? We didn't even get to dig into trump's response to Israel banning two congresswomen from visiting. Nor did we talk about the stock market jittering on concerns of a recession. We stopped to discuss you.
Yeah, it still would have happened. I don't believe that people didn't know my position, you just said that you all "GET IT" and don't want to read it.
I didn't "bring up some past comparison" (remember my mention of mischaracterization of my posts frequently being near the nexus of these occurrences)
On August 15 2019 14:49 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2019 14:21 Mohdoo wrote:On August 15 2019 13:54 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On August 15 2019 10:14 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
US statement on the Hong Kong protests
I guess the interpretation of this message depends a lot on what you imagine Trump means with 'quickly and humanely solve' Not really the time to criticise Trump when Xi has tanks and troops in Schenzen that he could use against civilians. It’s good that Trump is trying to stop any engagement there but the ball is fully in the court of the Chinese Communist Government. The fact that the tanks are there is a reason to criticize Xi. We are not subordinate to Xi. Xi should be criticized and stopped from violence. As far as I've heard (I haven't followed it that closely) the police have been far less violent than they typically would be in the US?
I suggested it's weird for the US to tell China essentially "do better than we would!", then it got flushed out why.
As to other topics, as I believe brian mentioned I'm not forcing people to post about me instead, that's a choice y'all are making then lamenting.
Could have had a dozen posts about Trump's take and whatever else instead you guys insist on posting about how it's my fault you guys can't post about those things.
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I didn't think this was really worth mod attention tbh.
It gets to me how willing GH is to suggest conspiracy and innuendo when it comes to the evil actions of an Eastern government (insinuating that people talking about what they suffered in re-education camps could be lies for some reason) compared to how he reacts to US stuff.
Its not really a moderation issue imo. Its more that he has an agenda on these forums and anything outside of that agenda gets diminished or ignored.
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You all could honestly just stop responding to him. In the end, if most people don't want to talk to him, he will either leave or change his method of discussing issues. If people continue to talk to him outside of you, then you two can exist in the same space without interacting. It's as simple as that.
I believe there was a plug-in that allows you to block certain people's posts on TL, if that makes life easier.
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On August 16 2019 11:13 Jockmcplop wrote:
I didn't think this was really worth mod attention tbh.
It gets to me how willing GH is to suggest conspiracy and innuendo when it comes to the evil actions of an Eastern government (insinuating that people talking about what they suffered in re-education camps could be lies for some reason) compared to how he reacts to US stuff.
Its not really a moderation issue imo. Its more that he has an agenda on these forums and anything outside of that agenda gets diminished or ignored.
Can you see how one could levy the same complaint in reverse? That it gets to them how willing many posters are to accept rumor, conspiracy, and innuendo when it comes to those things aligning with western interests/their agenda?
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On August 16 2019 11:13 Jockmcplop wrote:
I didn't think this was really worth mod attention tbh.
It gets to me how willing GH is to suggest conspiracy and innuendo when it comes to the evil actions of an Eastern government (insinuating that people talking about what they suffered in re-education camps could be lies for some reason) compared to how he reacts to US stuff.
Its not really a moderation issue imo. Its more that he has an agenda on these forums and anything outside of that agenda gets diminished or ignored.
It isn't a mod issue. But it does show that no matter the topic, he has to bring it back to "America Bad" and people get sidetracked. It's the same thing over and over. Notice how we always come back to him and issues concerning him?
Jealous, PM me that please?!??!
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On August 16 2019 11:18 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2019 11:13 Jockmcplop wrote:
I didn't think this was really worth mod attention tbh.
It gets to me how willing GH is to suggest conspiracy and innuendo when it comes to the evil actions of an Eastern government (insinuating that people talking about what they suffered in re-education camps could be lies for some reason) compared to how he reacts to US stuff.
Its not really a moderation issue imo. Its more that he has an agenda on these forums and anything outside of that agenda gets diminished or ignored.
Can you see how one could levy the same complaint in reverse? That it gets to them how willing many posters are to accept rumor, conspiracy, and innuendo when it comes to those things aligning with western interests/their agenda?
you don’t actually think uyghurs are getting paid a lot of money to make up stories about reeducation camps do you?
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On August 16 2019 11:45 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2019 11:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 16 2019 11:13 Jockmcplop wrote:
I didn't think this was really worth mod attention tbh.
It gets to me how willing GH is to suggest conspiracy and innuendo when it comes to the evil actions of an Eastern government (insinuating that people talking about what they suffered in re-education camps could be lies for some reason) compared to how he reacts to US stuff.
Its not really a moderation issue imo. Its more that he has an agenda on these forums and anything outside of that agenda gets diminished or ignored.
Can you see how one could levy the same complaint in reverse? That it gets to them how willing many posters are to accept rumor, conspiracy, and innuendo when it comes to those things aligning with western interests/their agenda? you don’t actually think uyghurs are getting paid a lot of money to make up stories about reeducation camps do you?
No, definitely not a lot. But the history of planting stories in local media, paying people to spread rumors narratives, etc is rather extensive so I can't rule out the possibility it's almost nothing like it's described (in the worst descriptions) I think they are probably enduring something somewhere along the range of Gitmo, boarding schools, and a Sikhs/Muslims in NYC post 9/11.
It seems from the reports I've read that the experiences range rather greatly and that it doesn't seem to be an attempt to actually genocide the Uyghurs but there's definitely some cultural indoctrination going on (exactly what it looks like is even less clear to us than how it manifests in the US).
They did just have the Corban Festival ( AKA Eid al-Adha) though so it's not the kind of crackdown a lot of people make it out to be imo.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On August 16 2019 08:40 Mohdoo wrote:
GH essentially hides behind this nonsense of "whoa there all I'm doing is point out hypocrisy" as if that is some divine purpose and something that must be done. Hypocrisy does not invalidate beliefs or actions or requests. Hypocrisy is simply hypocrisy. But the question as to whether something is hypocrisy or not does not need to be discussed at every possible avenue. That is the issue here. There was an attempt to discuss the US handling the Hong Kong situation, but as displayed above, the main priority for GH was determining whether or not the US criticizing China's handling of Hong Kong would be hypocritical or not.
I am left wondering why this all was considered worthy of moderation attention in the first place. Even assuming that entire commentary is exactly as you say, so what? It’s an argument being made. You can retort with your own, or you can choose not to do so. It really seems that, beyond the usual suspects, the “who cares?” sentiment seems to be shared.
The meta thread always tends to draw political disagreements wrapped in conduct disagreements, but this one seems a little more clear cut than most.
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On August 16 2019 12:04 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2019 11:45 IgnE wrote:On August 16 2019 11:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 16 2019 11:13 Jockmcplop wrote:
I didn't think this was really worth mod attention tbh.
It gets to me how willing GH is to suggest conspiracy and innuendo when it comes to the evil actions of an Eastern government (insinuating that people talking about what they suffered in re-education camps could be lies for some reason) compared to how he reacts to US stuff.
Its not really a moderation issue imo. Its more that he has an agenda on these forums and anything outside of that agenda gets diminished or ignored.
Can you see how one could levy the same complaint in reverse? That it gets to them how willing many posters are to accept rumor, conspiracy, and innuendo when it comes to those things aligning with western interests/their agenda? you don’t actually think uyghurs are getting paid a lot of money to make up stories about reeducation camps do you? No, definitely not a lot. But the history of planting stories in local media, paying people to spread rumors narratives, etc is rather extensive so I can't rule out the possibility it's almost nothing like it's described (in the worst descriptions) I think they are probably enduring something somewhere along the range of Gitmo, boarding schools, and a Sikhs/Muslims in NYC post 9/11. It seems from the reports I've read that the experiences range rather greatly and that it doesn't seem to be an attempt to actually genocide the Uyghurs but there's definitely some cultural indoctrination going on (exactly what it looks like is even less clear to us than how it manifests in the US). They did just have the Corban Festival ( AKA Eid al-Adha) though so it's not the kind of crackdown a lot of people make it out to be imo.
boarding schools ...
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On August 16 2019 14:24 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2019 12:04 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 16 2019 11:45 IgnE wrote:On August 16 2019 11:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 16 2019 11:13 Jockmcplop wrote:
I didn't think this was really worth mod attention tbh.
It gets to me how willing GH is to suggest conspiracy and innuendo when it comes to the evil actions of an Eastern government (insinuating that people talking about what they suffered in re-education camps could be lies for some reason) compared to how he reacts to US stuff.
Its not really a moderation issue imo. Its more that he has an agenda on these forums and anything outside of that agenda gets diminished or ignored.
Can you see how one could levy the same complaint in reverse? That it gets to them how willing many posters are to accept rumor, conspiracy, and innuendo when it comes to those things aligning with western interests/their agenda? you don’t actually think uyghurs are getting paid a lot of money to make up stories about reeducation camps do you? No, definitely not a lot. But the history of planting stories in local media, paying people to spread rumors narratives, etc is rather extensive so I can't rule out the possibility it's almost nothing like it's described (in the worst descriptions) I think they are probably enduring something somewhere along the range of Gitmo, boarding schools, and a Sikhs/Muslims in NYC post 9/11. It seems from the reports I've read that the experiences range rather greatly and that it doesn't seem to be an attempt to actually genocide the Uyghurs but there's definitely some cultural indoctrination going on (exactly what it looks like is even less clear to us than how it manifests in the US). They did just have the Corban Festival ( AKA Eid al-Adha) though so it's not the kind of crackdown a lot of people make it out to be imo. boarding schools ...
Yes? The Civilization Fund Act, Pratt, "American Indian Boarding Schools"...
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It's happening again.
PS: I don't know where this plug-in is, it was a while ago; perhaps someone from staff remembers it.
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Writing about China dealing with protest 5000 years ago (China wasn't even unified till 2000 years ago and only in a small northern part of the country, and back then people didn't protest in a democractic tradition; there were near constant rebellions and massacres) was one of the silliest things I've ever read to divert attention back to USA, when we were talking about events that happened the previous day.
That said, the US Pol thread should be related to American politics, though I suppose the American president's comments is part of that.
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On August 16 2019 14:45 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2019 14:24 IgnE wrote:On August 16 2019 12:04 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 16 2019 11:45 IgnE wrote:On August 16 2019 11:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 16 2019 11:13 Jockmcplop wrote:
I didn't think this was really worth mod attention tbh.
It gets to me how willing GH is to suggest conspiracy and innuendo when it comes to the evil actions of an Eastern government (insinuating that people talking about what they suffered in re-education camps could be lies for some reason) compared to how he reacts to US stuff.
Its not really a moderation issue imo. Its more that he has an agenda on these forums and anything outside of that agenda gets diminished or ignored.
Can you see how one could levy the same complaint in reverse? That it gets to them how willing many posters are to accept rumor, conspiracy, and innuendo when it comes to those things aligning with western interests/their agenda? you don’t actually think uyghurs are getting paid a lot of money to make up stories about reeducation camps do you? No, definitely not a lot. But the history of planting stories in local media, paying people to spread rumors narratives, etc is rather extensive so I can't rule out the possibility it's almost nothing like it's described (in the worst descriptions) I think they are probably enduring something somewhere along the range of Gitmo, boarding schools, and a Sikhs/Muslims in NYC post 9/11. It seems from the reports I've read that the experiences range rather greatly and that it doesn't seem to be an attempt to actually genocide the Uyghurs but there's definitely some cultural indoctrination going on (exactly what it looks like is even less clear to us than how it manifests in the US). They did just have the Corban Festival ( AKA Eid al-Adha) though so it's not the kind of crackdown a lot of people make it out to be imo. boarding schools ... Yes? The Civilization Fund Act, Pratt, "American Indian Boarding Schools"...
boarding schools in ireland, or for orphans, or whatever were similarly horrible. it is hard to disentangle the cultural obliteration in those indian boarding schools from more general norms regarding the disciplining of lower class hoi polloi regardless of color. (also consider the complicated interpenetration of such norms by sincerely held religious beliefs and the theological obligations of evangelization)
i submit that you should not compare the US at a given per capita income to eg china at that income. 2019 is 2019. it presents new global norms and new technologies of control. i also submit that china probably has an equivalent to gitmo, and that the surveillance and reeducation going on in xinjiang is in addition to its political prisoner and police black sites which are undoubtedly at least as numerous as those in the US.
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We allowed to use the N word in the politics thread now?
I don't see why anyone would wanna but I reported that and nothing happened.
Seems like a bad idea to me, regardless of context or the individual.
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EPT
