Strategy Forum Highlight Nomination Thread - Page 3

On December 21 2010 01:24 4kmonk wrote:
I've been seeing a lot of zergs asking questions about how to stop 4 gates and I've seen even more people give terrible advice about how to stop it. I also know that even many top level zergs don't know the proper way to stop this. I hope I can help some people by sharing what I know about this strategy. Feedback is greatly appreciated.

The main problem with the general advice that people on teamliquid give about stopping 4 gates is that they're usually about the unit composition to get vs a 4 gate. This is wrong for 2 reasons. First of all, there are many types of 4 gates that come with different timings and different compositions and each has a somewhat different counter. Second of all, unit composition is, in my opinion, the least important aspect of stopping a 4 gate. Most 4 gates, especially the later 4 gates can be stopped with a variety of tactics. In order to stop a 4 gate, the two most important aspects are:
1. Scout the 4 gate
2. Cut drones at the correct timing
Everything else is secondary. Of course, you want spine crawlers and a good unit composition, but these things are by far not the reason most people lose to 4 gates.

Scouting the 4 gate:
First, to stop the 4 gate, you must know that it's coming. This can be done in various ways. Here are some techniques that I've come up with.

1. A drone scout can determine if the gateway was built on 10 or 13 and it can check the nexus for the number of chornoboosts the toss has saved.
2. Overlords can be sacked to check the number of gates and the unit composition of the protoss. 3. Finding out the toss's 2nd unit out of his first gateway can give you a big clue as to what strategy he's doing. A stalker most likely indicates a tech build/4gate. A sentry rules out the zealot/stalker 4 gate, so free feel to drone to 30 drones.
4. Killing the initial scouting probe lets you deny proxy plyons that will make his push much faster. 5. You can run lings up the protoss's ramp every 20 seconds to check how many chornoboosts he uses on his warp gate tech.
6. If you learn warpgate timings, you can tell how many chronos the toss has used on his warpgate tech. This can give you a hint on the mindset of a good protoss. 3 chornos on the warpgate could possibly mean a 4 gate, 4 definately means a 4 gate, and 0-2 probably means either no 4 gate or a very delayed 4 gate. These timings off a 13 gate are approximately:
5 chornoboosts: 5:20
4 chornoboosts: 5:30
3 chornoboosts: 5:40 etc...
0 chornoboosts: 6:10
These timings indicate when the warpgate tech finishes and gateways start morphing. Units can be warped 10 seconds later and will finish warping in 15 seconds. For example, if you use 4 chornoboosts on warpgates, warpgates will finish at 5:30, units will start warping in at 5:40, and units will have finished warping at 5:45.

Types of 4 gates
By learning the types of possible 4 gates, you will be able to recognize them in a game and respond accordingly.

Pure zealot 4 gate
This is by far the easiest 4 gate to stop as long as you scout it. The protoss can stop mining gas after 50 gas and focus only on zealots. If he doesn't make even 1 stalker, he won't be able to deny scouting. Throw down a roach warren and you should be safe.

Zealot/stalker 4 gate
This version of 4 gate comes out very quick and is probably the hardest to stop. Toss cuts probes at 20 probes and in order to stop this variation, you need to cut drones around 18 drones on certain maps(20 drones on most maps). As a reference, this build can have 7 toss units around 5:35. The zerg's 2nd hatch will just have finished by that time off of a 14 gas 14 pool build and therefore there is no way you can build spines at your natural to hold it off in time. On maps with narrow chokes, it's possible to preemptively build a spine crawler in your map and then walk it down to your natural. On maps with wide chokes, you absolutely need both speedlings and roaches to defend against this type of 4 gate. Make more roaches if he's zealot heavy and more lings if he's stalker heavy. Surround the stalkers with your lings and kite the zealots with roaches. Even then, if you do everything perfectly, it's still a micro war with the zerg having a slight advantage.

Zealot/sentry 4 gate
This comes slightly later because toss must get 2 gas in order to execute this version. Toss usually cuts probes around 23 in this version and the initial push is generally pure sentry/zealot. This version might look like a normal 3 gate sentry expand, but you won't be fooled if you have constant scouting of his expansion via either a ling or an overlord. Also, you can sometimes tell by the sheer number of units he has. If the toss spots roaches, he will add a round of stalkers. Spines are decently effective against this 4 gate, because this army generally has a lower dps. A good amount of roach/ling is also effective, because the toss will simply get overwhelmed. Mass lings are not effective at all vs this. As long as you don't overextend yourself, you should hold this off. One key thing to be careful of vs this version is not to let toss up your main ramp or it's pretty much over for the zerg as he can endlessly forcefield your ramp.

Delayed 4 gate
These are by far the most varied and are only hard to stop when you can't scout it or your macro is poor. By 6:10, if the toss has not expanded yet or moved out, you definitely should suspect that something is up. If you have no idea what the toss is doing, then you're not in a very good position. The reason 4 gate is problematic in this case is that you have to prepare not only for 4 gate but also a vast myriad of other threats such as voidrays, phoenix, dts, blink stalker, immortals, and warp prisms. In any case, by 6:10, vs a 1 base toss, you should start your lair to prepare for air/dts/blink stalker and pump mass drones until 30 drones and then cut drones entirely. This is because all the threats i mentioned before actually all come at the same time, around 7:10 to 7:30 and if you cut at 30 drones you should be able to properly respond to all of them. Also, with 30 drones and 2 bases, you'll definitely be able to outmine a toss who has only 1 base anyways if he says on 1 base for too long. In any case, with good macro and a mixture of lings and roaches, you'll hold.

Varying your defense based on the map
Next, you have to vary your 4 gate defense techniques based on the map being played. All of these factors contribute to determining whether spines should be a major component of the 4 gate defense and how much time you have to react.

Maps with long rush distance and tight chokes(lost temple, shakrus plateau)
Lots of spine crawlers are the best answer for defense as you support those spines with additional units. These maps are the worst maps for 4 gate, but it's still possible to lose to a 4 gate if you're not prepared or you don't abuse the choke.

Maps with wide chokes(xelnaga, metal and delta)
These naturals are not defended as efficiently with spine crawlers. Although spines are definitely still useful in these situations be wary that with improper spine placement, the protoss can simply walk around your spines.

Maps with short rush distances(steppes, close distance metal, close distance lost temple, delta)
These maps force you to make preemptive spines because you won't have enough time to make reactionary spines after he moves out of his base.

Maps with ramps to the main that are easy to get up(xelnaga, delta quadrant)
Pay special attention to your ramp on these maps if your opponent has sentries. If the toss gets up the zerg's ramp with sentires, the game is pretty much already over.

Maps with backdoors(blistering, scrap station, and jungle basin)
These generally make spines somewhat less effective. Don't overly invest in them(~3). However it takes forever to kill the rocks, so if you scouted and droned correctly, the time it takes for him to kill the rocks should translate into a bigger army advantage for you.

Unit choices
Unit choices are the least important part of defending a 4 gate. For most of the 4 gates(the later ones), unit choice isn't really that important. Before you start your game, you should have a build in mind and this build should be flexible enough to handle any of these 4 gates. If you scout a 4 gate, you don't have to abandon your build entirely. Instead, just adapt by cutting drones and making whatever unit you were going to make in the first place. Ling roach, ling bling, +1 speedlings, and hydra are all somewhat decent choices to stop 4 gates. Muta, however, is not.

On February 02 2011 13:35 4kmonk wrote:
You have to check for the existence of a hatchery around 3:40. If it's not there, run up the ramp by clicking on some minerals and check for either roach warren, baneling nest, lair, or nothing. If it's a roach warren throw up a forge and delay with sentries for long enough to get 2 cannons up. The guy in the replay said to put 3, but in my experience, 2 is enough. I don't see baneling busts working vs sentries.

On February 11 2011 08:46 4kmonk wrote:
I've studied MC's builds a lot so here's my take on it. oGsMC has many voidray builds and although they may look the same they're all very different. The one he uses the most is the one i assume you're talking about. That build hits with 5 stalkers and 1 voidray and its intended purpose is to depot bust and to scout what your opponent is doing. The build is approximately: gate stargate gate then robo around 6:30.

I've also seen 3 other oGsMC builds involving voidrays. They are: 3 gate stargate all-in, a different 3 gate stargate all-in, and 2 gate stargate expo. Do not confuse these builds for the same build. They are actually very different and each has a different purpose. All 4 builds differ in the choice of the first gateway units and number of gateways. Once you commit to a certain set of units, you cannot go to a different voidray build. The most impressive aspect of oGsMC's play is his ability to choose the right build based on his very limited scouting information.

As for counters to this 5 stalker + voidray build you're probably talking about, 2 rax expand with a reactor first solidly counters this build, as does 3 rax. 1-1-1 builds where terran doesn't get a wall off are good vs this build. Also, if he scouts your stargate and goes viking first on his starport, you will be behind.