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On May 27 2011 22:27 CtrlAltDefeat wrote:
I'm starting to use this build and like it so far.
How would you tweak the build for when a third is not available (i.e rocks), what time around to start making lings to take the rocks down?
Also I have some trouble when toss goes relatively quick stargate (like right after expo) and denies the third for a long time (because of slow lair I can't make hydras, and many times I can't see the stargate without ovie speed/overseer).
I usually get 8 lings after 26 food. Or 4 lings and a spine crawler, it deals a lot of damage to rocks, but not always u can reach it with spine.
Spread creep towards third base so you will be able to reach it with queens. U need to scout it and make queens beforehand. then spores once it's ready and ur safe with 3 base vs 2 base and it's eco lead.
On May 30 2011 18:23 Venomsflame wrote:
I really don't think this is the next big thing at all. The OP states the IDEAL SITUATION for a zerg player. Yeah, taking a quick third and being greedy while not dying is awesome. But if you have six(SIX) running bases that are operational by 19 minutes in, you can go mass ultra or pure roach infestor or broodlords and win. The composition isn't revolutionary(roaches/infestor/broodlord/corruptor is again usually the ideal end game composition for Zerg against protoss if they can afford it) and the OP seems to think having a huge economic advantage is a given as a zerg.
That said, your playstyle in the replays is very strong. As a player I think you pull off being greedy against toss very well and this type of timings will crush a "turtle toss." I also like the descriptions of your play in stages to introduce your own certain thought processes and the description of the game flow.
Yeah it's true with six bases u can do everything. But getting to those six bases is not an easy thing and to do it safe you have to have solid build. Otherwise you will just get rolled by toss. I present here quite a safe way how to get to point when u have those 6 bases. It's obviously possible with other builds as well but this guide is about this certain build.
If protoss does the passive 3 gate expand(into whatever transition) then economic lead to zerg is indeed usually a given thing because of fast third. The situation is different with 16 nexus or FFE, then the game is even but it's not viable on all maps.
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The amount of excess minerals you develop against bischu is scary.. and it sort of reflects on the "opportunity" aspect of this build. You need so much gas that unless your opponent is openly letting you take virtually every gas on the map, you're going to run into some trouble.
Against bischu you have 5 running bases, and your composition is roach/hydra/infestor/corruptor/broodlord... This just seems unrealistic in a game that had more harass, or any harass for that matter. Bischu is working on a 1a victory the whole game and neglect to even poke at you until he has 3 collossi.
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Netherlands183 Posts
On May 31 2011 04:33 .Mthex- wrote:
The amount of excess minerals you develop against bischu is scary.. and it sort of reflects on the "opportunity" aspect of this build. You need so much gas that unless your opponent is openly letting you take virtually every gas on the map, you're going to run into some trouble.
Against bischu you have 5 running bases, and your composition is roach/hydra/infestor/corruptor/broodlord... This just seems unrealistic in a game that had more harass, or any harass for that matter. Bischu is working on a 1a victory the whole game and neglect to even poke at you until he has 3 collossi.
Build-up of minerals can be put into Spinecrawlers/Spore, which can shut down non-dedicated harass very well. Just as Cruncher-type Protoss spam Cannons everywhere to stay safe from drops, so can you. With such a powerful army as this creates, you can fight the Deathball head-on, making it easier to split the map and keep it split after Hive is down.
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How does this hold up to lasertoss? Mass voids and colossus stuff?
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Mass(20-25) corruptors with +2 attack with 4-5 infestors with 3-4 broodlords and some ground meatshield.
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noooo plz no BL builds :0 im toss and they scare me. i just cannot deal with them without dieing
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Hey guys, as promised, some new good high level replays! I'm adding them to OP
This is against high master polish protoss, shows how to react to voidray collosus action. In general it was pretty good and long game. You can see massive usage of evo chamber trick.
+ Show Spoiler +http://sc2rep.com/replays/%28P%29Vengeful_vs_%28Z%29RGlMatiz__sc2rep_com_20110619/9999
Me against Nerchio;
Shows how to NOT engage against mass storms. Either way, shows a decent quite long game when i had advantage early and midgame.
+ Show Spoiler +http://sc2rep.com/replays/%28Z%29RGlMatiz_vs_%28P%29aAaNerchio__sc2rep_com_20110619/10001
Me again against Nerchio;
Shows how to transition to offensive zerg out of my opening and mid game
+ Show Spoiler +http://sc2rep.com/replays/%28Z%29RGlMatiz_vs_%28P%29aAaNerchio__sc2rep_com_20110619/10000
Gogo sign up for coaching, there's last spot for person which will have to pay 15$ instead of 25$ for 1h!
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I truly love your build and feels it deals well with everything that a protoss can throw at you throughout the game. How do you approach the ZvT matchup?
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MATIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIZ!!!!!!
You play zerg? Gross...
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On June 19 2011 20:07 Matiz_pl wrote:Hey guys, as promised, some new good high level replays! I'm adding them to OP This is against high master polish protoss, shows how to react to voidray collosus action. In general it was pretty good and long game. You can see massive usage of evo chamber trick. + Show Spoiler +http://sc2rep.com/replays/%28P%29Vengeful_vs_%28Z%29RGlMatiz__sc2rep_com_20110619/9999 Me against Nerchio; Shows how to NOT engage against mass storms. Either way, shows a decent quite long game when i had advantage early and midgame. + Show Spoiler +http://sc2rep.com/replays/%28Z%29RGlMatiz_vs_%28P%29aAaNerchio__sc2rep_com_20110619/10001 Me again against Nerchio; Shows how to transition to offensive zerg out of my opening and mid game + Show Spoiler +http://sc2rep.com/replays/%28Z%29RGlMatiz_vs_%28P%29aAaNerchio__sc2rep_com_20110619/10000 Gogo sign up for coaching, there's last spot for person which will have to pay 15$ instead of 25$ for 1h!
What about your streaming? 
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I had unfortunately problems with internet provider, I will launch streaming 1st july, not 1st june. Hopefully people will be still interested in watching my stream as i improved rapidly recently. I will provide commentary after games with analysis, analyzing my moves and reasoning behind it. I will invite top players to the stream, nerchio, TLO, rasowy or protosser etc, should be cool!
Stay tuned! :D
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Cool, since despite this awesome guide my zvp is by far my worst matchup
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It's nice to see a consolidation into a specific build focusing on Broodlords rather that us Zerg having whatever build we are using and knowing "Well, when my Roach/Corruptor/Infestor reaches the late game I guess I need to go Hive and get some Broodlords" Kudos. Also, has it really come up much in the past to anyone's knowledge making a 220/200 army? I knew it was possible, but never really seen it done with much regularity.
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About the early 4th base, would you saturate it at all or just for the gas? How many extra drones would you produce for it?
Also, is it necessary to apply pressure to protoss if he expands to his third? Or is it better just to get more drones for the 4th or even getting the fifth?
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There was a really awesome example of this today in darkforce vs rsvp from the IPL stream. Dunno if there are replays or VODs yet because it was just a couple hours ago...but it was really enjoyable.
He combined it with a lot of small nydus attacks (which I think might be legit since broodlords staying alive are really supply/money efficient).
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EPT
. Once we get some more good games i will post em
