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On June 22 2011 17:30 Matiz_pl wrote:
I had unfortunately problems with internet provider, I will launch streaming 1st july, not 1st june. Hopefully people will be still interested in watching my stream as i improved rapidly recently. I will provide commentary after games with analysis, analyzing my moves and reasoning behind it. I will invite top players to the stream, nerchio, TLO, rasowy or protosser etc, should be cool!
Stay tuned! :D
Can't wait to see it 
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I have a lot of trouble with 1gate + forge or FFE openings because they just put cannons at my nat. What do you think I should do in this case?
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Do not open with hatch first. Cannon rushes are too strong ;<
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It's not hatch first, it's 15 pool 15 gas 15 hatch.
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man i was really struggling zvp (to the point that i deleted sc2 in an epic rage quit). then i saw this thread (remembered it really, i may have posted in here) and now i cant lose zvp.
great work. very detailed. the timing of when to do shit was throwing me off, and you really cleared up many of my shortcomings. i aim to get brood lords in every zvp but recently i was having trouble actually getting there.
thanks a lot! rank 1 plat, less then 100 apm, you dont need to be pro to use this.
edit: i did actually have a question. ive found gas to be tight when i am rolling in the midgame. infestors are very nice and i would like to get them. but i dont feel like i have the gas surplus to make both infestors and corrupters in a timely manner. basically, i want to attack as soon as i hit 200 cuz i know i will get there before the toss. is it worth delaying that attack by a minute or 2 to add infestor?
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With your timings (first units at 7:20) I die to a 3 gate expand push :-( I was on xel naga and I saw him moving out at around 7 minutes but i had just build a round of drones and could only build 3 roaches then he was at my base and force fielded the ramp and I lost my expo.
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@Vaporized:
It's good to add infestors once ur BL's are up. The idea of this build is to fight the deathball with broodlords, infestors are ok but they dont help u that much vs collosi. (U can NP them but i prefer BL's). The timing works in the way that u get BL's just when the deathball is getting too big to be handled with t2 units. In this situation it's hard to add infestors unless you switch a lot into infestors, which means u get 6-7 of them + Neural parasite. This might work, but i think BL's are more reliable as collosi have the same range as infestors and protoss can snipe them. It's up to preference but i think BL's are stronger.
@Kirdie: Yeah the timings are not set in the stone. If i see him moving out earlier, i dont make another round of drones but i get lings. It's also map dependant, on cross positions i will get even more greedy, on close positions i will cut drones and make army since 7:00 or even earlier.
BTW GUYS MY STREAM IS UP. IT'S IN TESTING PHASE (I CONFIGURE STUFF) BUT IT'S ABOUT TO BE ROLLING :D
Tune in, send the link to your friends and enjoy
http://pl.justin.tv/matiztv
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Hey matiz, can you answer a question I previously asked about my nat getting cannoned? What's the proper response?
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Hey, that's the reason why i don't go for 15 hatch. With 15 hatch stopping such builds is extremely hard, often the solution is to ragequit like idra vs mc. So basically have your overlord over your natural and once you see that he is putting cannons and pylons pull off 5-6 drones, maybe even more if he's spamming them. Target cannons and force cancel (u need 4 drones to deny 1 cannon). Then make 6 lings and they will clear stuff off. That's not always possible though, there's one really frustrating cannon contain which blocks the path to cannons. Cannons are put behind mineral lines and pylons block the way to them. Then my solution might not work. Retreat and get a tech(roaches or hydras) and crush the contain, expand and proceed with normal game. Or you can allin him with nydus hydra+mass ling.
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What to do when I open 14 gas 14 pool and protoss does forge expand and also cannons my nat? Not heavy, maybe 1 pylon+1/2 cannons? His expo is a little delayed, but mine is delayed by a long time (I need to get roaches etc.).
Btw looking forward for stream
EDIT: Btw this wouldn't be so bad if on the forge expand maps (shakuras, taldarim) protoss couldn't build a pylon and cannon on the low ground behind nat and then 1 cannon on the nat high ground....so fucking annoying.
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But I don't go 15 hatch, I follow your build -> 15pool, 15 gas, 15 hatch as stated in the BO in your guide. Even going pool first, I still get cannoned and would have to cancel my nat.
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ah, no way, i was Mister-E in supcom
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oh shit sure hope this thread doesnt get popular or i will be having major problems on the ladder lol
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Lost to this strategy today. Very annoying to fight =/
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Yes please more fast third oriented builds it is so fun to crush 
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A few questions: do you build more than the initial 2 lings if he is not pressuring early? If you're on a map with a blocked third (Tal'darim, Shattered Temple, etc.), when do you make units to kill that block? The replay you posted on Tal'darim your opponent forge FE'd, so you were able to take a different base and didn't have to clear the rocks. I'm having a bit of trouble getting my third down when I'm droning hard early.
Lastly, can you advise on fourth gas timings?
Awesome build and fun to play with, both because it works well and because it's challenging to execute because you have so much going on in the early/mid game!
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Hello matiz!!!! destro from ra3
great build, glad to see some people still around kicking butt!
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@Ingenol
If there's no pressure then 2 lings are enough, if im scared of proxy i get another 2 lings so i can scout whole map with 4 lings. On taldarim i take 3rd base at the 4th expansion and i destroy rocks way later when i want to take 4th base. I just connect my natural and 3rd base with creep and its ok usually. 4th gas around 8 or 8:30 min mark I'd say.
Hey, nice to see ra3 and supcom players around here, so cool ^^
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After +2 ranged attack, how do you prioritize upgrades? Do you get +3 ranged and armor or do you switch over to melee which also opens up possible Ultra tech switches. Similarly, what about air upgrades?
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Upgrades are in general useful, so I get them as much as possible without hurting my BL tech or count. When greater spire is done, i start attack upgrade, mainly because corruptors are way better then, so they deal with voidrays much easier. In ground, i get +3 attack then carapace, unless i delay my hive for some reason, then I get carapace and then +3 attack. After that i get more carapace, not sure about melee upgrades. Probably just as game goes.
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EPT
