EPTHats off to you, doing analysis like a boss, standing up for what you think, and making really good reads on people (like the aforementioned Rookie).
TL Mafia XL - Page 40
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iGrok
United States5142 Posts
Hats off to you, doing analysis like a boss, standing up for what you think, and making really good reads on people (like the aforementioned Rookie). | ||
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Sprungjeezy
United States1313 Posts
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Treadmill
Canada2833 Posts
First, I get a bit less precise and coherent towards the end, sorry about that. However it is his earlier posts that I feel are more convincing, anyways, tthe ones before he started to get accused. So, top 5 reasons that amazingxkcd is mafia: 1. posting a lot but not saying anything, really. 2. getting very defensive on receiving almost any attack 3. the rookie44 lynch 4. straw-manning; lying about the content of other people's arguments 5. the rookie44 lynch again - the first time for how it happened (the timeings of votes, the scurrilous arguments) and the second time for howit ended, how xkcd seemed to just not care about whether rookie was guilty, how he never considered the possibility that he was wrong or that rookie was a blue, and how he completely stopped engaging with the issue after a certain point. | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
On June 08 2011 22:07 Treadmill wrote: Okay, final thoughts: First, I get a bit less precise and coherent towards the end, sorry about that. However it is his earlier posts that I feel are more convincing, anyways, tthe ones before he started to get accused. So, top 5 reasons that amazingxkcd is mafia: 1. posting a lot but not saying anything, really. 2. getting very defensive on receiving almost any attack 3. the rookie44 lynch 4. straw-manning; lying about the content of other people's arguments 5. the rookie44 lynch again - the first time for how it happened (the timeings of votes, the scurrilous arguments) and the second time for howit ended, how xkcd seemed to just not care about whether rookie was guilty, how he never considered the possibility that he was wrong or that rookie was a blue, and how he completely stopped engaging with the issue after a certain point. I am very agreeable to lynching amazing for the reasons you have provided above. Good work. What do you think about the other people who voted for rookie though: (Jackal58, Kurumi, Senj amazingxkcd, kairo, vain, jimboo, alderan, tdAdonis, Sprungjeezy)? In particular I still think jimbooo is very clearly mafia and amazingxkcd's defense of him (in part 1 of your mega-post) reaffirms that the mafia are trying to push aside any effort to lynch jimbooo. | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
On June 07 2011 05:56 Alderan wrote: Wait so you're saying instead of voting for new players being dumb you suggest us to vote for a player who has never played before on the forums (admittedly so) for suggesting that veteran players toss out potential strategies? Sure it's a LITTLE scummy, but until I see some elaboration on your "very subtle in fishing for blues" I'm going to have to disagree with you. Initially he disagrees with Jackal and argues that there is no evidence within rookie's post of role fishing - note the severe skepticism in Alderan's post. But then, a little while later, he reverses his opinion after a large number of people vote for rookie. On June 07 2011 09:55 Alderan wrote: I will be voting for Rookie based on his answers to being called out. While I don't think he is the highest percentage (I'd give him about 10%) chance of hitting a scum, I think that he will do nothing but waste a DT or a future and more costly lynch if he remains in the game. Honestly there are a couple people I'd like to vote for, but the decision is made infinitely more difficult based on the fact that all the ones in question are likely only in question for being new to the game and very lazy. If we have to hit a town let's make it a lazy scummy looking one. ##Vote Rookie44 First off, this is extremely problematic. Why would you ever vote for someone on a 10% chance. It is very likely that, Alderan knows that rookie clearly is not mafia and uses this statement as an excuse to make a sort of 'I really didn't want to lynch him but I didn't'. He ignores the pushes to lynch other people on the basis that "all the ones in question are likely only in question for being new to the game and very lazy" - but there was significant evidence a number of other people who were also quite lazy and scummy and would "do nothing but waste a DT or a future and more costly lynch if [they] remains in the game." Considering that Alderan initially found no reason whatsoever to vote for rookie and then gives him only a 10% chance of being mafia, I find this highly highly suspicious. | ||
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
On June 08 2011 21:42 iGrok wrote: Haven't read it yet, but I'm going to go ahead and nominate Treadmill for the "Best Rookie (no pun intended) Award". Hats off to you, doing analysis like a boss, standing up for what you think, and making really good reads on people (like the aforementioned Rookie). You're joking. Walls of text like that on one player are useless. When You or Treadmill flips red I am sure the other is scum. Now You'll try to convince us how green Treadmill is and bring points like: He defended rookie44! - Sure he did,all of us saw blue/scum slips. But he as scum knows that was a blue player. Easy town cred. He made a detailed analysis! - Wall of text noone should bother to read,I'll make it shorter: Treadmill attack xkd and soft-attacks me. Tries to tie me and xkd. | ||
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
Lol@*VOTES WERE POSTED IN 5MINUTE PERIOD* Nulltell. No scum would give out itself like this. | ||
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Treadmill
Canada2833 Posts
But I wouldn't be surprised if it was only the trio of Senj, Kurumi, and xkcd that were mafia there. Maybe 1 more at most. They didn't need the votes, so why make themselves more suspicious? I'm also not discounting the notion of the vote timing being coincidence, which would maybe free up some room for Jimbooo or Adonis to be scum maybe. I think one of the big questions today is gonna be iGrok. Honestly I don't see the case against him at all. gtsrs has been down his throat since day one, as has Kurumi, but I kinda feel like a lot of the supicion of him just comes from them flaming him. I wouldn't be surprised if both were also scum - maybe Pyo, a little more likely not. He seems the least irrational in his criticisms. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
When you do an analysis like that don't post it all at once. Town has the collective IQ of a sea cucumber. Half the people in the game won't read it all. Half of those remaining will forget about it before day ends. Spoon feed it. Smaller chunks. Throughout the day. Allow people to digest it. Allow discussion to generate around it. Those discussions are invaluable later when we are trying to separate town from scum. Again I am not ripping on you just trying to provide a little advice on how to disseminate your analysis so it has a greater impact. | ||
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Treadmill
Canada2833 Posts
On June 08 2011 23:15 Jackal58 wrote: Kudos to you Treadmill. I am not diminishing your efforts or disputing you but I would like to provide a little advice and insight. When you do an analysis like that don't post it all at once. Town has the collective IQ of a sea cucumber. Half the people in the game won't read it all. Half of those remaining will forget about it before day ends. Spoon feed it. Smaller chunks. Throughout the day. Allow people to digest it. Allow discussion to generate around it. Those discussions are invaluable later when we are trying to separate town from scum. Again I am not ripping on you just trying to provide a little advice on how to disseminate your analysis so it has a greater impact. Hrrrm. Fair enough. And thank you, I'm still a newbie so I'm flying pretty blind. I finally took the time to read through todays posts - and I also took a quick look at iGrok's posts. I now think that iGrok is town. On the other hand, though, I can see how he comes across as a bit of a self-important ass (sorry...), and is rubbing some people the wrong way. So I think he's attracting some attention because of that. To a more experienced player (maybe gtsrs or Jackal) - iGrok made the point that when the night post talks about two people, and two shots on GGQ that translates as the mafia using 2 KP on him - can one of you confirm this? Cause that would simplify things for us a bit. | ||
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iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 08 2011 23:35 Treadmill wrote: Hrrrm. Fair enough. And thank you, I'm still a newbie so I'm flying pretty blind. I finally took the time to read through todays posts - and I also took a quick look at iGrok's posts. I now think that iGrok is town. On the other hand, though, I can see how he comes across as a bit of a self-important ass (sorry...), and is rubbing some people the wrong way. So I think he's attracting some attention because of that. To a more experienced player (maybe gtsrs or Jackal) - iGrok made the point that when the night post talks about two people, and two shots on GGQ that translates as the mafia using 2 KP on him - can one of you confirm this? Cause that would simplify things for us a bit. I guess I am coming across as a bit pompous - I'll try to tone things back a bit. I'll still be doing my damnedest to analyze people and help the newbies out though. And actually, the biggest part about the two people in the Day post is that they were working together. Thats why I'm certain that it was 2 scum hits. | ||
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Sprungjeezy
United States1313 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On June 05 2011 15:36 iGrok wrote: In the shadows lies A peculiar type of Man Kuze is my name. In this game, I will start all of my posts with haikus. Enjoy ^^ He has plenty of reasons to be a townie. Don't even think about that kind of McCarthy Bullshit this early in the game. Anyone voting this early deserves some measure of suspicion. Also, I am schwasted, so this may not make a lot of sense. (White Russians are the best!) But. If you are new to mafia, welcome. A quick word of advice: Think before you act. Those people who have already voted are acting too hastily. a 40 man game is much more about reasoning than putting pressure on someone. And the only reason you would vote this early is to put pressure on someone. Things to note about this game: Detectives instead of watchers: This gives us hard checks (with a few exceptions) on who is scum/town. Town needs to know this information, and we need to keep it out of the hands of mafia. For new players, this is where crumbing comes in. Crumbing is leaving clues about what you want to say. The best crumbs will be deciphered by us and not by scum. However, crumbs can be used a different way, in that you leave crumbs no one can decipher and then reveal multiple crumbs later. This is good if you are new because often times no one can understand your crumbs anyways since you don't have experience. Vigilantes: Need to not use your shots immediately. You are MUCH more likely to hit a civilian than scum at first, and also more likely to caus confusion. Those are the two most important roles this game. Regarding discussion: Freeloader is probably not scum. He is new and likely inexperienced. However, just to be sure, a cop needs to check him tonight. Which reminds me: If a miller is roleblocked, what does he return to investiagtion? Anyways, many good ideas floating around for a newbie game :p Keep up the good work I believe it is always good to start off the game by knowing who's good, who's new, and who's annoying. Some people read previously played games to get a better read, but as this is a new game, most won't look further than this. A nice long post that defends the very quick accusations against Freeloader625, a pretty neutral post. + Show Spoiler + On June 05 2011 15:39 iGrok wrote: I didn't even see this. If you use this argument again I will be sure you die. If Townies don't defend other townies from bullshit attacks, this game will end quite rapidly, and not in our favor. More defending Freeloader625. Then posts a Haiku. Then another. Then another with a question about the KP system. + Show Spoiler + On June 05 2011 16:29 iGrok wrote: Olol. No haiku this time. Pardon the wino in the corner. Yes, it is green and not blue. EBWOP: Change to green. O shit, a post without a Haiku but pretty irrelevant at this time. + Show Spoiler + On June 05 2011 16:29 iGrok wrote: Olol. No haiku this time. Pardon the wino in the corner. Yes, it is green and not blue. EBWOP: Change to green. Another irrelevant post, but continuing to have a presence. Important for people to see him. + Show Spoiler + On June 05 2011 18:14 iGrok wrote: Two threads, Two places Vote in one, not the other Or you may mislead. Just fyi, voting in the Thread and not in the voting thread is considered scummy at higher levels of play. I will of course excuse you since you are new, but I'm trying to help you out here - if you're going to vote, then vote, but make sure you know what you're doing. Make sure you read my post. Also, again with the bullshit McCarthyism - This is VERY anti-town, and if you're a menace to town, promoting anti-town play, its in our best interest to remove you from the game if we have no strong mafia targets. tl;dr: CTFO + Show Spoiler + Chill The Fuck Out Starts to get interesting somewhat. Note he denounces Kurumi's valid post against Jimboo (who I previously considered if he was mafia, but believe he is just a very-almost-too active townie). Also accuses Kurumi of being anti-town. + Show Spoiler + On June 05 2011 18:21 iGrok wrote: The more that you yell, The more attention you get. Keep up the noise, Joe [/sarcasm] Even if you are town, and its too early to throw accusations out, you're playing TERRIBLY anti-town. Again, Chill. Again makes Kurumi out to be very anti-town. + Show Spoiler + On June 05 2011 18:31 iGrok wrote: No haiku for this, The point is too short for one. Just a simple note Do shit like this, you're going to piss people off. Pissing people off is a good way to die. Dying does not help your team at all (at least in this game). You know this, you've played several games. Don't fuck over the newbies because you want to be obnoxious. As far as your "slips" go: Lafali, from what I can tell, is a newbie who bandwagonned, read my post warning against bandwagons, and unvoted. Treadmill: He said we should wait, and every point of evidence is important no matter how small. Great reason to vote him. Point grew after I wrote the haiku :p Starts getting interesting. He defends Lafali as a nooby and defends Treadmill (who begin to reason as scum lately). + Show Spoiler + On June 05 2011 23:54 iGrok wrote: Pay no heed to us Prior warnings of misdeeds. Vote without a post. again, [/sarcasm] Drazerk, you did NOT just read the thread, SEE that people were warned against voting without posting, and then vote without posting. Right? Calls out Drazerk for not posting before voting. Boring. + Show Spoiler + On June 06 2011 07:57 iGrok wrote: My Final Haiku: I guess fun is not allowed. Srs Bsns. You, sir, have no sense of fun. So let me get this straight - your reason for voting me is "Thread Derailment" and not wanting to vote for treadmill? You do realize you could just -wait- to vote, right? Honestly, those are some of the worst reasons to vote that I can think of. Particularly since your post is, aside from your "evidence" against me, just a regurgitation of other posts. Post some analysis, and good analysis not just bullshit like the above post. You may be thinking, "Why haven't you (iGrok) posted strong analysis yet then?" And knowng you, and probably kurumi as well, there probably a "Scum!" (or "Rat!") thrown in there. The reason is that last night there was nothing to analyze yet, but I saw that the town was disintegrating really fast and I had to step up to try to stop that from happening. May analysis will come after 24 hours of game time, no sooner or later. I will focus on one person, selected without bias, and attempt to ascertain through their posts what their alignment is. Anyone who remembers me from Experiment Mafia 2, I was Pink2 - You remember my analysis of Blue, and how strong that was. In closing, BE PATIENT. Talk, yes, Discuss, yes. Accuse, especially with as little actual substance has happened so far, no. Again getting into a good towny position. On June 06 2011 08:14 blackone wrote: Well, posting cute little haikus and being funny can lead to the suspicion that you have some kind of interest in being considered funny and friendly. Also, if you don't agree to that, why will you stop doing that now? It's not like gtrsrs can impose rules on how you have to post. A mildly relevant post now as I am putting together evidence for us to consider if iGrok is scum. iGrok then tells him it was his last haiku. Vain explains that iGrok just wants attention and iGrok thanks him. iGrok points out an edited post to mods. iGrok makes a small tip on quoting. iGrok tells someone not to report to mods but to let us self-moderate. These last several posts aren't exactly worth much, but could serve to make it further clear that he is an experienced player to say the least. CrjNinja posts some good analysis and condemns Lafali and naming Freeloader and Kurumi green. iGrok asks Crj's opinion of himself (of iGrok). Crj says he is an experienced player and says iGrok might be green but wants to wait until he makes any worth while post. BREAK TIME So far we have learned that iGrok first day has been utterly passive and is following his statement that he will not post anything worthwhile until after day 1, but has instead been using his time to get in our good graces by not stepping on any one's shoes as he wants to be liked by everyone. Currently (at the time of the above posts) I am kind of annoyed by him, but he seems like a very good player (even though he hasn't actually posted anything). /END BREAK iGrok now posts about how he will post a big analysis soon. iGrok explains how redFF isn't actually playing the game. WARNING BIG POST – finally iGrok's big analysis post. This should be fun. + Show Spoiler + On June 06 2011 15:18 iGrok wrote: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fWwZu.jpg) Its time for some analysis. For Science. EDITED MY OWN SPOILERS SO YOU CAN SKIP THE NOOB GUIDE + Show Spoiler + This post will be long. And split into two parts. The first part will be setup analysis. The second part will be a post-by-post analysis of Kurumi. There will be no tl;dr. Welcome to Mafia ^^. Let's begin. Setup: 40 players. 1/5 are scum. Scum have 4 kp N1, and D1 is rarely a scum lynch (sad but true). However, there are medics and vets, so assume D2: 36 players - 28 Town 8 scum, or .222 scum. Now we're getting somewhere. Because of the scum %, which is slightly high for a large game (large games tend to help scum get lost in the noise), and based on Town traditionally having more PRs anyways, I guarantee tht Town has a greater number of PRs. Probably 150-250%. I'll analyze Scum roles first so we can get a rough estimate of the number of blue roles. 8 Scum. 1 GF. There are definitely not more than 50% PRs on the red team. That would be absurd for a newbie-friendly game. Therefore, 2-3 RBs. 3 RBs is a little high, so I'll guesstimate 2. This leave us with 3 PRs on scum. Blue Roles Detective: In this game, Detectives (Also known as Cops and DTs) check Role in addition to alignment. This makes DT a VERY powerful role. However, there is probably more than 1 - having only one makes the game to easy to be swung with a lucky snipe. Therefore, I'd guess there are 2 DTs. Medics and Vets: Lately, theres been a tendency to display both but only give out one or the other of these roles. In this case, however, I will assume both. Likely 2 Medics (for the same reason as 2 DTs - if one gets sniped thats just bad luck) and 1 Vet. Veterans kind of get their own kind of weighting when it comes to balancing teams. You know it will be useful if town is losing, but it does nothing active to help them. Veterans help to stabilize the game and make it less swing-y, which is exactly what you want for a newbie game. Lastly, Vigilantes. Knowing Meapak, theres at least one, probably 2 Vigilantes. Vigilantes can be the town saviors. Particularly in a game like this, the faster we can whittle down Mafia KP the better off we'll be. Vigis should take note of who presses for and opposes a lynch, and when we see the results, act accordingly - probably NOT before N2 though. Note that I do not count vets toward Power Role balance because they are so weak. Also Vigis only count for 75% of a PR because they can do more harm than good. Role cops, on the other hand, count for 150% of a PR. Yes, they are that strong. Black Roles Traditionally, Black roles are 3rd party, but since there aren't any sks, I'm counting Miller as a black role. Miller is the bane of any cop. Every check you make that comes back Goon is less usefull. You can't confirm that he's anti town (though feel free to pressure them and see if they crack!). Millers count as -50% of a PR to Town. I would be VERY surprised if there were more than 1 Miller in this game, and certainly not more than two. So, in summary: 5 Goons, 2 RBs, 1 GF = 3 PRs 2 DTs, 2 Medics, 1 Vet, 2 Vigis = 6.5 PRs 1 Miller = -.5 PRs Total of 6:3 - Perfect - 200% Is that guaranteed to be accurate? No. But its probably pretty close. Now on to Analysis! Today's subject is Kurumi. The black does not mean I think he's a miller, it means I don't know yet. So, post by post: Manages to insult Freeloader and defend him at the same time. His next move, searching for bandwagonners, is a good idea, although its really not too hard to search through the 6 post long vote thread :p. Nothing to really note here except attitude. This is either a misread or a mislead. I immediately noted 2 things here: the ridiculously aggressive attitude was one. Treadmill is saying here that we need to use every bit of evidence, and that at the moment we had very little but it was enough to start. I might not have completely agreed with Treadmill, but I didn't think he was scum because of it. Kurumi is apparently convinced enough by this post that Treadmill is scum to vote - after he's yelled at others for voting based on little to no evidence. Literally this is what happened: Lafali says "aprudds has a point, but it could mean nothing. Fortunately, its not the end of the world if we fuck up." Kurumi continues his hyper-aggression. Lafali's post meant nothing - he may as well have not posted. Based on this, Kurumi accuses Lafali of being scum.+ Show Spoiler + Granted, it was a useless post - a scummy thing to do with good player meta, but as a newbie Lafali probably felt (s)he should contribute something. This should be pretty self-explanatory. + Show Spoiler [In case its not,] + More hyper-aggression This is actually a very interesting post. As you can see, Kurumi is mis-representing both Lafali and Treadmill. Neither of them "advocate mis-lynches", they simply stated that a mislynch was ok, and even probable. Neither of them are anti-town, and Treadmill is actually playing pro-town. This is a very true post. That is precisely what scum wants. Its important to note that scum also wants to cause as much chaos in the town as possible as well. Just read it. The one super-pro-town thing he's done all game! Catching silent voters is SUPER important, particularly in a large game like this. Pyo calls him out, Kurumi admits to spreading chaos in the town the game before. Pyo asks Kurumi for a list of "experienced players" On June 05 2011 22:45 Kurumi wrote: Jackal58 - he is very good GGQ - I think he is there for at least short while Me Impervious from replacements played a bit there too gtrsrs played one game I think. You're not going to participating in lynching the most scummy player Pyo? While I understand place holder votes You need to know that people like me will remember that. I want to see a good post after You're back. Jackal58 is good. GGQ is good, borderline very good (no offense Jackal ♥). Vain is good. I'd like to think I'm decent. Impervious is... interesting haha. Kurumi has played 3 games, and Jackal called him out later on. Whats important here is that Kurumi lumps himself in with very good players that town should listen to. He's attempting to establish a position of power for himself. On June 05 2011 23:20 Kurumi wrote: By the most scummy player I meant Your suspicion. An example of good post would be an analysis pointing out the biggest slips of player X leading Town in a Scum lynch.Remember though: there's nothing wrong about being wrong(unless You're redtooth,then You commit suicide on Day 3) A good post could be summing up who attacked who and who defended who + Your thoughts about it. Everything that generates discussion is good. You must remember though,that without good evidence there's probably no point in bringing something new,because this will cause chaos. Pyo,it is too fast for scum to bus too. Freeloader's situation is really uncertain. His small,but bandwagon is based on shitty evidence. "He asked a question,no townie would ask it!" Think for a second. What would happen if Freeloader was scum? Someone would pm him and tell him everything he needed to know,makes sense? Hell yes. We aren't that vindictive,don't worry <3 But there are players who are magnets,namely Radfield and Kavdragon,who like to die Day/Night 1. Kurumi hasn't been here that long, but he's clearly read up on his mafia. He knows the names of some older players. He is correct in that all discussion is good discussion, but (IMO)there are certain methods of generating it that do no good to town because they cause too much chaos. Still, point in his favor though. On June 05 2011 23:53 Kurumi wrote: Bussing is when You vote for lynch/kill Your Mafia buddy to make Yourself less suspicious/earn town cred,mostly happens when there's no way to save him/perform some gambit or wicked trickery. Well,it is rather safe to assume that anyone who got assigned as Godfather is going to help his newbie Mafia bros as fast as possible - he is probably one of the "better" players,but this might be a mislead. Also as far I remember in my PYPI pm I had mafia list and that I can PM them etc. etc.,while it wasn't a "noob game" I strongly believe that there everything a new player should know about his role/alignment. Not much to say about this. Slightly pro-town I guess? Kinda obvious stuff, but I'm giving people a pass on obvious stuff this game because its a newbie game and so not everything IS obvious. On June 06 2011 00:07 Kurumi wrote: My dumbness meter went over 9000. Before saying "HURR DURR YOU DID NOTHING" read my posts. I brought evidence why I think they're scum. aprudds (the originator of the whole "Freeloader Debacle") gives a nice, concise analysis of whats gone on in the game, and (in the @Pyo section), explains what his reasoning was for the first accusation. + Show Spoiler [Mini aprudds read] + IMO, it seems that aprudds and Kurumi actually have similar philosophies, its just that aprudds doesn't piss off as many people along the way. On June 06 2011 00:18 Kurumi wrote: I played in XXXIX then PYPI then PTP now there. This is Kurumi's prior experience. Note that in one of these games he was lynched D1. Vain steps in to defend Treadmill and aprudds. On June 06 2011 00:27 Kurumi wrote: @Vain Let aprudds defend himself. On June 06 2011 00:30 Kurumi wrote: EDWOP: I meant,let him play by himself,he does not need Your help. The evidence is simple: They support bad lynches,they say that we can waste lynches,they want Town to make quick decision which they didn't think about enough We've been over this - No they don't. On June 06 2011 03:41 Kurumi wrote: Sorry but Palmar and RedFF are better at tunneling everyone than me >:C Tunnelling is still bad -_-. However, I don't think Kurumi is tunnelling this game. He's just accusing everyone who disagrees with him of being scum. On June 06 2011 03:52 Kurumi wrote: Hey guys voting on freeloader bandwagon,are You willing to post? (Drazerk,grush57) Continuing to prod Silent Voters. Pro-town. Really unexpected. On June 06 2011 04:05 Kurumi wrote: Treadmill is suspicious to You? You both are doing the same thing. Also thanks for excuse,I enjoy eating them. Because they're yummy. Why would DT report on Day 2? It is an easy target for Mafia,even when med protected they can just stack on him. Why are You spreading bad ideas? Kurumi points out that DTs shouldn't report on D2 since mafia can stack kills. This is an excellent point - DTs should wait until they have something useful to report before revealing themselves. I don't understand the first half of this post, so I'm ignoring it lol. On June 06 2011 05:37 Kurumi wrote: This post can be treated like it never happened,You know? What are Your thoughts on freeloader bandwagon? Who's Your scum suspect #1? Asking questions, its been a bit since he last posted an opinion of his own (aside from other people are "Rats"). Nothing really here.+ Show Spoiler [Tiny supersoft read here] + Admitting to lurking and doing nothing but saying 'hey look I'm not lurking' is terrible.  On June 06 2011 05:54 Kurumi wrote: We can't no lynch. There needs to be a lynch every Day. True. And thats the last post he made. It may be time related. That was ~10 hours ago, possibly sleeping. So, what can we take from all this? Kurumi is a very aggressive player known for causing chaos. He has cast suspicion on many people, mostly those who argued with him. He has also thrown in some genuinely Pro-town things into his posting. Its very difficult to make a final call, but... I believe that Kurumi is Scum. In my opinion, his Pro-town points were thrown in at random or very obvious to remove suspicion from him. However, I must take into account that I may have been biased, as well as his pro-town things. Because of this, I do not advocate a Kurumi Lynch D1. Instead, I think that Kurumi should be our prime DT target. Knowledge of his alignment will undoubtedly help us determine who is scum and who is town. GGQ, Jackal, Vain, I'd particularly appreciate it if you would weigh in here. To new players, this is a complete, thorough analysis of a player. You don't have to do things like this. But you'll be a much better player if you do, even if you don't post it (there are times not to, like if you realize someone is a DT or Medic). Go forth and analyze! Now most of this post is directed at Kurumi who I feel is enemies with iGrok at this time, and assuming iGrok is GF, he doesn't want Kurumi to continue tunneling himself so he shifts focus to Kurumi. As iGrok doesn't want to appear suspicious himself he suggests a DT check Kurumi. Now I would like to point out this out “Jackal58 is good. GGQ is good, borderline very good (no offense Jackal ♥). Vain is good. I'd like to think I'm decent. Impervious is... interesting haha. Kurumi has played 3 games, and Jackal called him out later on. Whats important here is that Kurumi lumps himself in with very good players that town should listen to. He's attempting to establish a position of power for himself. “ This is what I call true irony. This whole game until now has been iGrok expressing his experience and not stepping on anyone’s toes and making the town does not act hastily in their lynch. He is letting us make the first mistake (with information, not lynches) by not posting anything worth reading (he can't slip anything important if he never posts anything important while we make accusations and force each other to defend ourselves.. Immediately after this is posted gtrsrs calls iGrok out on still being his prime suspicion even though he provided a long analysis. + Show Spoiler + On June 06 2011 15:40 iGrok wrote: iGrok then asks for a post by post analysis of himself – which until now has been literally 100% white noise and even this analysis is an extremely passive against Kurumi. iGrok now posts that hes asking flamewheel to edit the formatting so he doesn't get in trouble and his posts looks prettier. iGrok then states that his PR formulas aren't 100% accurate, but are generally pretty useful. [QUOTE]On June 06 2011 16:04 gtrsrs wrote: here is my scum hunt you post haiku's in a game where posting anything more than necessary is distracting and derailing you try to find the town's blues so that the mafia can know what they're up against the one thing that the town has as an advantage is that the mafia doesn't know our PRs and here you are spelling the info out for them even if you're not mafia, your two biggest contributions so far are anti-town everyone i encourage you to ##vote: iGrok and watch how he (and others) react as the votes pile up. putting the pressure on someone is a good way to find mafia. watch the people that come to defend him and how they do so and then when he flips red, go after them next + Show Spoiler + On June 06 2011 16:20 iGrok wrote: Basically he calls out gtrsrs on being a noob, even though his accusation against iGrok is pretty accurate. CrjNinja comes in and says he disagrees with his analysis on Kurumi. + Show Spoiler + More people become suspicious of him and then gtrsrs posts [QUOTE]On June 06 2011 16:44 gtrsrs wrote: [QUOTE]On June 06 2011 16:20 iGrok wrote: [QUOTE]On June 06 2011 16:04 gtrsrs wrote: here is my scum hunt you post haiku's in a game where posting anything more than necessary is distracting and derailing you try to find the town's blues so that the mafia can know what they're up against the one thing that the town has as an advantage is that the mafia doesn't know our PRs and here you are spelling the info out for them even if you're not mafia, your two biggest contributions so far are anti-town everyone i encourage you to ##vote: iGrok and watch how he (and others) react as the votes pile up. putting the pressure on someone is a good way to find mafia. watch the people that come to defend him and how they do so and then when he flips red, go after them next Okay, this is not an analysis. Everyone please note how bad this is. But as a refutation, I posted haikus because I wanted to, and every single one had a purpose. I did not try to find out the town's blues. I tried to guess the setup. This helps town out just as much as it helps scum out, if not more so. If you disagree, I want to know why, in explicit detail. Mafia doesn't know who is what PR, or even how many - they can only guess, same as me. Same point as above. If you count both of those as my only two contributions, I'll be able to simply ignore you as a terrile player. The analysis of Kurumi, and holding town together from fracturing immediately should also be in there. As well as explaining several concepts for the newer players. [QUOTE]On June 06 2011 16:11 gtrsrs wrote: in fact i think kurumi is doing the right thing. we have nothing to go on on day 1. there are a lot of inexperienced players. lots of times if a new player is mafia and you insinuate that they're mafia they get really defensive. even if they know that you're accusing everyone, new players can slip up when you get around to accusing them. so i think kurumi is just trying to shake out some baddie mafias.[/QUOTE] I went through your post history - when exactly have you played before? I know you're big in the LoL subforum, but all I could find regarding mafia was as a replacement in SNMM3 and a late /in for Newbie Mini Mafia I. Just curious because you're acting like you have some knowledge of how newbies play vs how experienced people play.[/QUOTE] note, town, how now that i am FoSing iGrok more publicly, he's attempting to discredit me as he starts to panic. even though he LITERALLY just told you to not let kurumi sheep you and use experience as a reason to put him in a position of power, he's now going to attempt to do the exact same thing. classic sheeping attempt here, he points out that i'm not a well-known figure on the mafia sub-forum. good play is good play, you don't have to be an experienced player to pick up on a scumtell. but iGrok is going to call me a bad player and pretend to ignore me. notice how he will now try to shift the attention of the town elsewhere - probably by using a 9000-character post again on an "analysis" of someone else don't fall for his passive-aggressive tricks, town[/QUOTE] Which I feel is incredibly relevant and accurate right now. + Show Spoiler + On June 06 2011 16:55 iGrok wrote: Nice OMGUS, bro. You have a habit of responding only to one thing in a post. You should probably change that, not just for this game but for all of them. Anyways, the last thing I'm going to say regarding this (unless you keep up the smear campaign [or answer my points]) is that I said Kurumi is trying to use experience he doesn't have to get into power by associating himself with those who do. Personally, I think Jackal58, GGQ, or Vain would be great people to look up to and have confidence in - they're all pretty experienced and -good- players. Whomever among them we can confirm/be reasonably certain is town should be looked up to. And just FTR, it wasn't 9,000 characters. It was 26,088 characters. Lets see you put that kind of effort into a post, eh? He is truly shaken and is trying to discredit Kurumi and gtrsrs. He then suggests Vain GGQ and Jackal could all be mafia and he would never play again if it were so (this is really a far more retarded post this his previous white noise posts). And then continues to reason that if these 3 experienced and good players were on the same team it is irresponsible of the hosts to allow it to happen when they are supposed to be random teams. - Honestly there is absolutely no reason to say this, no one suggested it, no one considered it, it was TRULY random as hell. Later on he posts an irrelevant mspaint of the accusations that he feels are going around. He then responds to why people find him annoying. Pretty useless. He then answers a question about when nighttime starts. He then asks Jackal his opinion of his Kurumi analysis (I think hes fishing for someone to back him up, hes asked everyones opinion over and over but this is pretty irrelevant). He then basically admits he analzyed Kurumi for no reason aside from trying to post something relevant to the game (even though all it did was get people off his ass for doing nothing the whole game). He then asks Xedat a question. (irrelevant again) He calls someone out for editing. He lets everyone know we have 12.5 hours until night. He then posts that he is unsure if Kurumi is scum or not (he is refering to my post during which I analyze Kurumi who I was suspicious of, but after doing the analysis started to consider him a townie). He then expresses more confusion over someones post about Kurumi. (again irrelevant) The person he was talking to explains himself and iGrok says he understands and states he doesn't know who to lynch. + Show Spoiler + On June 07 2011 03:08 iGrok wrote: Yeah. Here's my "Don't Lynch" list (in no particular order): Me ^^ Jackal58 Vain GGQ Kurumi Treadmill 35spike1 CrJninja Xedat aprudds Actually, looking back, I'm going to put my vote on Drazerk, for twice voting without saying shit. (He might've posted once or twice, but absolutely no substance, only bandwagonning). Here he says he is going to vote to lynch Drazerk for no real reason besides Drazerk's ignorance. Kurumi asks for an explanation and he gives some reasons, but they're all pretty much him hoping that his opinion matters and hoping people will listen to him so he can appear to have more power in the future votes. He explains how the GF is chosen. He also asks for an updated vote count. He then says he doesn't think Rookie is scum, but bad with words, not that this matters because the votes were pretty substantially against the poor medic. Impervious recommends we vote for the 3 people that suddenly changed their vote to Rookie with little time left. iGrok asks which 3 people. Then announces time before night. Munk E suggests Lafali is suspicious and iGrok agrees, but admits the votes are pretty much locked in for Rookie. I LOVED this post. [QUOTE]On June 07 2011 13:06 iGrok wrote: Well. 2 blues and 2 reds. Looks like we need to do some serious thinking.[/QUOTE] God damnit, I searched for like 5 minutes through the last few pages of the thread for someone linking a wiki post about how posts like the one above are clear markers for scum. Whatever. iGrok then suggests using Vigis early (this is just asking for a huge mistake to happen. iGrok then condemns Jackal as the one to start the Rookie lynch. He then suggests Treadmill is a townie because “everything he's done has been right. Everything.” I don't need to quote Treadmills posts to point out the flaws in the argument. Pyo goes on to say how retarded it would be to use Vigis now. + Show Spoiler + On June 07 2011 14:31 iGrok wrote: @Pyo: Sure medics are passive and not useful until DTs/Vigis claim. But with possibly no remaining medics, DTs can't claim without really good cause because we can't save them -__- Medics ARE important, much more important than you seem to think. I should have made clear that I wasn't officially accusing Jackal of being GF, just saying that his play would make sense if he were GF. For the moment, I have to go with treadmill here - Senj, xkcd, and kurumi are the most suspicious. Just going off of associations, I'd say that Alderan is probably [green]Town as well The rest of his posts are mostly irrelevant noise, but all of this really cements my position that iGrok is scum and most probably GF. I apologize if some of the formatting isn't attractive, but hope this analysis is pretty accurate and fair. TL;DR iGrok spams Day 1 so people will come to the conclusion he is an experienced player and very helpful to town. Avoids bandwagoning like the plague so people will not be suspicious of his motives. Recommends doing stupid things like using Vigilantes early. And most obviously he abstains to being the first to accuse someone in all situations so that he won't be the one to throw the first stone. | ||
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Sprungjeezy
United States1313 Posts
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Sprungjeezy
United States1313 Posts
On June 08 2011 23:35 Treadmill wrote: I finally took the time to read through todays posts - and I also took a quick look at iGrok's posts. I now think that iGrok is town. On the other hand, though, I can see how he comes across as a bit of a self-important ass (sorry...), and is rubbing some people the wrong way. So I think he's attracting some attention because of that. This actually made me laugh out loud, thank you for that. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On June 08 2011 23:35 Treadmill wrote: Hrrrm. Fair enough. And thank you, I'm still a newbie so I'm flying pretty blind. I finally took the time to read through todays posts - and I also took a quick look at iGrok's posts. I now think that iGrok is town. On the other hand, though, I can see how he comes across as a bit of a self-important ass (sorry...), and is rubbing some people the wrong way. So I think he's attracting some attention because of that. To a more experienced player (maybe gtsrs or Jackal) - iGrok made the point that when the night post talks about two people, and two shots on GGQ that translates as the mafia using 2 KP on him - can one of you confirm this? Cause that would simplify things for us a bit. Depends upon the host and the game set up. Would be a question that Meapak would be more capable of answering. Until he says otherwise I am going on the assumption that GGQ was shot twice. Some hosts like to get really creative in their descriptions of our deaths. Coagulation taking a rake handle up the ass comes to mind. Meapak, do your day posts indicate the number of hits a player takes?? | ||
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Sprungjeezy
United States1313 Posts
Suddenly he heard a noise in the bushes, two black figures slipped out. Two silenced bullets were his only reply. I'm assuming thats the case. | ||
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Senj
United States193 Posts
I just got my morning coffee and I'm gonna start investigating people around lafali day 1 as per GGQ's dying wish. Sorry for being almost entirely inactive day 1. I wanted to get a decent feel for how the game is played. | ||
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(also no offense to kurumi)
