EPTSo they hit our vet? Or we have another medic who happened to protect the right person. I disagree with Treadmill. If you were medic saved or vet, DO NOT SAY ANYTHING!!!! Keep them guessing whether you are the vet or whether we have a third medic. Town doesn't need to know that information only mafia would want you to reveal yourself. Treadmill just outed himself as scum.
TL Mafia XL - Page 38
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Pyo
United States738 Posts
So they hit our vet? Or we have another medic who happened to protect the right person. I disagree with Treadmill. If you were medic saved or vet, DO NOT SAY ANYTHING!!!! Keep them guessing whether you are the vet or whether we have a third medic. Town doesn't need to know that information only mafia would want you to reveal yourself. Treadmill just outed himself as scum. | ||
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omgCRAZY
Canada551 Posts
This is my first game, I have skimmed over some of the guides. Mainly Ver's town guide (though I have not finished reading even half of it). I have looked over the last TL Mafia game (XXXIX). On another note. I thought mafia had 3 kills to dish out? Do they have a limited supply? On June 08 2011 13:12 Treadmill wrote: Only two kills? What the hey? If someone took a hit last night let us know. I don't see them stacking KP when two medics died yesterday, and similarily I don't see anyone surviving a hit. They can stack kills? So would they have the opportunity to kill 4 tomorrow night? Later on I will post an analysis of iGrok and where I think he stands as right now it seems some people are sure he is town and other positive he is mafia. | ||
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
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Pyo
United States738 Posts
On June 08 2011 13:12 Impervious wrote: Ok, so, now that it's daytime, I'd like to ask everyone to do something simple for me, before we start discussing anything more serious. I'd like to know what guides/games you have read, as well as what games you have played. Just take like 10 seconds to post a quick list plz. If you've played in a few already, I know you're well exposed to TL Mafia. I'm asking for this information I want to get a feeling for how well adjusted our "newbie" players will be. I'm pretty sure that this may prove useful to us in the future. I wanted to ask it during the previous day, but I showed up pretty late for the party. I don't think this will be useful too easy to lie or manipulate by mafia, but I guess I'll answer anyway. I've never heard of mafia before I accidentally stumbled upon TL mafia by looking at some random person's post history. In preparation for this game, I read through most of XXXIX. | ||
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DeMorcerf
United States56 Posts
Thanks for the memories, fellow players. Thanks for the game, Meapak_Ziphh and Varpulis. | ||
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heist
United States720 Posts
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Treadmill
Canada2833 Posts
The overall theme with those two is that they weren't at the front of the arguing - they offered their unadorned opinions, and they looked into players on their own, but they never pushed hard for anyone's lynch or innocence. On reflection they were likely blues - which is probably the reason they were targeted. Luckily for us, neither of them were blue. DeMorcerf's posts are primarily a defence of iGrok and support for his supicion of Drazerk. He also has a couple posts asking questions to the mods, and a number more criticizing lousy arguments and generally appealing for less haste. He also pointed out tdAdonis' lurking He voted Drazerk. GGQ had a fair bit more posts, but like DeMorcerf he didn't get into any big arguments or do a lot of analysis. He also largely criticized lousy arguments and pointed out their holes. He was one of the first people to be suspicious of amazingxkcd and he was also supicious of Drazerk, Jimbooo, and Vain. He voted for Jimbooo. *He also posted an argument about iGrok but too late for it to have affected the mafias choices (like 1 min before the night 1 post). Because I think that they were hit cause they seemed blue, I don't think its worth reading too much into their posts. This might be helpful to someone else so I'm gonna post it anyways. But, please, don't say that [eg] "Jimbooo is scum cause GGQ accused him and got killed". I'm pretty confidant that they were hit for being suspected blues. If the mafia wanted to protect themselves/cause chaos/whatever, there are more obvious targets for them. | ||
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Treadmill
Canada2833 Posts
On June 08 2011 13:26 Pyo wrote: Yay!!! I'm alive - wasn't expecting that. Too bad about GGQ, I guess they wanted to take out experienced town. The other hit has me surprised. I'll have to go through his posts and try to figure it out. So they hit our vet? Or we have another medic who happened to protect the right person. I disagree with Treadmill. If you were medic saved or vet, DO NOT SAY ANYTHING!!!! Keep them guessing whether you are the vet or whether we have a third medic. Town doesn't need to know that information only mafia would want you to reveal yourself. Treadmill just outed himself as scum. Bullshit. The mafia already know who the third target was. That person coming forward doesn't say anything about whether he was saved by being a vet or by a medic (in fact, its a good point, Pyo, to emphasize that whoever got shot shouldn't say anything on the matter). I just think town knowing what the mafia knows is a good thing. | ||
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Pyo
United States738 Posts
On June 08 2011 13:54 Treadmill wrote: Bullshit. The mafia already know who the third target was. That person coming forward doesn't say anything about whether he was saved by being a vet or by a medic (in fact, its a good point, Pyo, to emphasize that whoever got shot shouldn't say anything on the matter). I just think town knowing what the mafia knows is a good thing. Yeah, you're definitely scum. Since you're scum, you aren't approaching it as townie would. If it was a vet that got hit, there's nothing to exploit. no strategies can be used. If it is a medic, then we're in luck and we have options available to us. But if mafia know that we have that medic, then they will go medic hunting. Now it is undoubtedly a good thing for the mafia to not know which one, as it will in the worst case scenario cost them another KP to learn which it is. However, if the person who survived the hit outs themselves, it can be figured out which it is based on their posting. As a townie knowing who survived the hit doesn't benefit us in anyway. Not until next night when the next round of DT checks go out. It's not like their analysis of posting becomes any more accurate or informed. | ||
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Pyo
United States738 Posts
DeMorcerf was possibly hit because he was a suspected blue for lying low - or it was to reestablish cred for iGrok. He defended iGrok and he voted with iGrok (a point treadmill avoided making since he didn't want to further emphasize). | ||
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Pyo
United States738 Posts
Kurumi is just an obnoxious overzealous townie with behavior consistent across multiple mafia games. iGrok is 100% scum. He defends lafali claims that his change of vote was a reaction to his post about bandwagons - clearly trying to engineer a scenario - which he never really made. He got super defensive after I joined with gtrsrs in voting for him (even though I said my voting for him was basically arbitrary - as if haikus actually matter). Also the fact that I am still alive is a huge tell. I have been the most vocal against him and even all but declared myself dead at the hands of the mafia. If he had been town, I would be the perfect target for the mafia. Just think, I get hit and then suspicion falls on iGrok for real and he might get lynched. win-win for them right? But if he is mafia, then killing me would just bring more suspicion on him. For all his supposed experience, he's tripped up several times. Everyone should go through and read all his posts. Also don't forget mafia powers. The GF can frame someone and the GF can hide his role to DT checks. | ||
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heist
United States720 Posts
So you're saying that on the very first night, the mafia kills off deMorcef (definitely a pro-town vibe poster) primarily because he has consistently sided with iGrok? Keeping the people who believe in iGrok alive seems much more sensible than killing one off just to provide some "cred". I'm really doubting iGrok is gf if we have to assume the mafia killed off a consistent town supporter of the gf. | ||
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Kairo
Sweden184 Posts
[QUOTE]On June 08 2011 13:26 Pyo wrote: Yay!!! I'm alive - wasn't expecting that. Too bad about GGQ, I guess they wanted to take out experienced town. The other hit has me surprised. I'll have to go through his posts and try to figure it out. So they hit our vet? Or we have another medic who happened to protect the right person. I disagree with Treadmill. If you were medic saved or vet, DO NOT SAY ANYTHING!!!! Keep them guessing whether you are the vet or whether we have a third medic. Town doesn't need to know that information only mafia would want you to reveal yourself. Treadmill just outed himself as scum. [/QUOTE] Bullshit. The mafia already know who the third target was - is the correct expression. Say for instance Mafia try to hit Rookie44 and fail. The information that they tried to hit him and he survived is fairly blatantly obvious to them. For everybody town this is information that is HIGHLY relevant to know, and it is obvious that the survivor should not tell whether it is due to vet or medic. A survivor claim benefits town at the cost of nothing more than a risk of Mafia to bluff that they are the survivor. Claiming that the survivor should shut up is +1 scum points in my book. | ||
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AnxiousHippo
Australia1451 Posts
On June 08 2011 13:12 Impervious wrote: Ok, so, now that it's daytime, I'd like to ask everyone to do something simple for me, before we start discussing anything more serious. I'd like to know what guides/games you have read, as well as what games you have played. Just take like 10 seconds to post a quick list plz. If you've played in a few already, I know you're well exposed to TL Mafia. I'm asking for this information I want to get a feeling for how well adjusted our "newbie" players will be. I'm pretty sure that this may prove useful to us in the future. I wanted to ask it during the previous day, but I showed up pretty late for the party. This is my very first game Had a read of the first Day/Night of How to Improve: Mafia XXX Analysis Checked out some general information Read a very small portion (8 pages?) of a recent game, just for the feel of it. | ||
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heist
United States720 Posts
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AnxiousHippo
Australia1451 Posts
Does this mean they 2shot GGQ in case he was vet? 3 Medics seems unlikely. This also means no vigis took shots first night. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
i never did read this thread again *lol* but i will tomorrow morning. i hope you guys are all positive as i am that iGrok is mafia and you trust me on the rest of my hunches. maybe i'll break it down tomorrow | ||
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aprudds
Canada144 Posts
Although GGQ's last analysis is quite solid and firmly grounded facts I cannot agree to your addon. + Show Spoiler + Also the fact that I am still alive is a huge tell. I have been the most vocal against him and even all but declared myself dead at the hands of the mafia. If he had been town, I would be the perfect target for the mafia. Just think, I get hit and then suspicion falls on iGrok for real and he might get lynched. win-win for them right? But if he is mafia, then killing me would just bring more suspicion on him. This is just a bunch of WIFOM. You can practically apply that logic to anyone. You didn't explore the second conclusion you could have made. GGQ was vocal about Jimbooo being scum. Going by your logic, since GGQ died and suspicion will fall on Jimbooo being scum so he must certainly not be scum! Or more simply Everyone who has an attacker that lived must be scum! Everyone who has an attacker that died must be town! Now let's look at it from another side Since your the PERFECT target for scum and you weren't killed wouldn't the more obvious conclusion that you must be scum! See what I did there? Your logic doesn't work and your just twisting whatever you can get to your own liking. Keep your arguments grounded in facts otherwise we are just going to be running in circles. Also you conveniently avoid the fact that DeMorcerf was killed and since I know you read GGQ's post, you also know that he defended iGrok. If your going to post an analysis keep your personal feelings out of it and include all the information please. Next + Show Spoiler + On June 08 2011 14:18 Pyo wrote: Yeah, you're definitely scum. Since you're scum, you aren't approaching it as townie would. If it was a vet that got hit, there's nothing to exploit. no strategies can be used. If it is a medic, then we're in luck and we have options available to us. But if mafia know that we have that medic, then they will go medic hunting. Now it is undoubtedly a good thing for the mafia to not know which one, as it will in the worst case scenario cost them another KP to learn which it is. However, if the person who survived the hit outs themselves, it can be figured out which it is based on their posting. As a townie knowing who survived the hit doesn't benefit us in anyway. Not until next night when the next round of DT checks go out. It's not like their analysis of posting becomes any more accurate or informed. Your not thinking clearly at all. I'll list out what what Treadmill is trying to say since it looks like your in blind crusade mode. 3rd person doesn't come forward Mafia knows: who they are who was targeted who was killed Town knows: who was killed 3rd person comes forward Mafia knows: who they are who was targeted who was killed Town knows: who was killed who was targeted It's still completely in the dark whether the 3rd person was healed or is a veteran. + Show Spoiler + However, if the person who survived the hit outs themselves, it can be figured out which it is based on their posting. This makes no sense. How can anyone infer anything from a "I was targeted". They don't have to say or rather shouldn't say how they lived. + Show Spoiler + As a townie knowing who survived the hit doesn't benefit us in anyway. Not until next night when the next round of DT checks go out. It's not like their analysis of posting becomes any more accurate or informed. We gain information. If we know who was targeted we can try and reason why they were targeted. I don't think your scum but I think you sir need to calm down As for myself I still find Jimbooo very suspicious but also Drazerk. After looking at Treadmill's post the two people who were linked from both DeMorcerf's death and GGQ's death is Drazerk. After looking into further into his posts, he has not contributed anything and fully admitted to lurking. Also going off this post + Show Spoiler + On June 07 2011 16:51 Drazerk wrote: Wow we lost our medics From what i can tell I highly doubt jackal is god farther in my opinion he just made a theory and people jumped on the band wagon / scum co ordination it's not his fault While it's sad to see rookie gone he made a blunder that costed him I have no real ideas on who is scum at this moment now For the first bolded part I'll have to point here http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Tarhalindur_Standard_Tells#The_.22Well.2C_That_Sucks.22_Tell For the second one, After all the information that was laid on the table he doesn't find anyone suspicious? + Show Spoiler + On June 07 2011 10:01 Drazerk wrote: [b] Good catch by the looks of things every vote for Rookie has been within 5 mins of one another leading me to believe that this is very organised Because there are a lot of inexperienced players ( my self included ) band wagoning will occur more often allowing the scum to get easier Lynch kills in the earlier days until we either prove or disprove Jackel's Theory In my opinion Rookie is more inexperienced than Scum material But here he clearly states that he does find the rookie bandwagon suspicious. Care to explain yourself Drazerk? | ||
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Xedat
Germany358 Posts
Secondly Is there a way to find a players profile without scrolling through the whole thread? I want to read drazerk's posts myself but he has not posted much. What I did find was that he voted early without posting, almost like he discussed who to vote for on the mafia forum and then voted without saying anything in the "game" Thirdly, I don't know if everyone telling how experienced they are is a good idea. If someone does a good analysis it shouldn't matter how experienced they are, also you should always think about a case yourself and not just blindly follow an argument (What a lot of people did last lynch.) Everyone telling their experience will just help mafia choose their hit's next night in my opinion. | ||
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Xedat
Germany358 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500¤tpage=20#385 | ||
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